May 20, 2020 Show with Dick Guido on “Church vs. State: Not Intrinsically in Opposition”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Introduction to the Guest and the Church-State Topic

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live-streaming at iron sharpens iron Radio .com this is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 20th day of May 2020 and This guest that we have on today is someone who I have known for many years probably going back to the late 1980s when I first befriended his pastor his former pastor Bill Shishko who is certainly not a stranger to the iron sharpens iron radio audience.

The man who I am speaking of is Dick Guido and although I've known him for many years This is the first time he has been our guest on iron sharpens iron radio. He's an elder now of the Providence Presbyterian Church in Huntsville, Alabama.

And a member of both the New York and Alabama Bar Association and the bar of the Supreme Court. Today we are addressing church versus state not Intrinsically in opposition and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to iron sharpens iron radio Dick Guido.

Great. I didn't even know that you were friends with my dear friend Dan, but a fuko Who has been a very important sponsor of this program? For quite a long time especially when we first began the program in 2005 and He's a dear friend.

In fact, he's going to be my guest God willing for a portion of the program on Friday. When we are having a special Tribute to Robbie Zacharias who as you probably have heard has gone home to be with the Lord for eternity.

Yes. Well something that we do here on iron sharpens iron radio when we have a first-time guest is Before we go into the main theme at hand. We like that guest to give a summary of their salvation testimony and including The kind of religious atmosphere if any they were raised in and what providential circumstances our sovereign Lord Raised up in their lives that drew them to Himself and saved them.

So I'd like you to do that now as well.

Praise God and it is a fine denomination. I know quite a number of.

Pastors who are my very dear friends from the OPC. As you know, as I've already said your your pastor being one who I've had the longest friendship with and. So, how long has it been since you moved out of New York.

Because that was probably the last time I saw you.

Yeah. Sorry to hear that. Great, but I don't remember the exact number of years ago that you left, New York. Okay.

1998 very important Year in a sad way for me. That's when my father went home to be with the Lord. At 78.

But.

Tell us now how you got to become so interested in the realm of politics. Great. Oh, well today we have a a topic that not only do Democrats and Republicans and liberals and conservatives and And Republicans and Libertarians and the whole spectrum of political thought not only is there great disagreement and debate Amongst the general population, but the more I do this show the longer I do this show the more I realize how heated the disagreements can be even in the body of Christ and not only Merely in the body of Christ, but even in the same theological camps Even in the same denominations and that would even include our theologically reformed camp that you and I share.

And this topic makes this topic is no exception that church versus state relationship and I understand that your main or at least one of the main goals that you have today is to clear up and What is in your opinion is a misunderstanding of that relationship?

Where the state the government is viewed as a necessary evil and that church and state are intrinsically in opposition to each other and You do not believe that although I'm sure you believe That especially in the 21st century The church and state are very often in opposition to each other when the the state Becomes an enemy of Christ overtly especially but it's not an intrinsic Position so if you could just begin where I just left off Yes, and of course one of the difficulties Involved in this is that we do as American citizens Innately have freedoms and liberties to protest What the government may command us to do or restrict us from doing?

Especially if the government is requiring something of us that the Constitution forbids. So we are not Living in a dictatorship. We are not living in a monarchy. We're living in a constitutional republic where something that might be totally off-limits for the Not the citizen but the the I'm trying to remember the word that they use for somebody that lives in a monarchy but somebody living in a monarchical country They would not have the same freedoms that we would have that might even be expected of us.

Exactly. So I just remembered the in the name the word of it was.

Scrambling for subjects.

They're not citizens in a monarchy. They're a subject. Yes, in fact.

Are not At least some employees Depending upon what they do. Aren't they even referred to as ministers even if they're so. The specific individuals are not Christians themselves but for instance policemen and the judicial system that wields the sword that has the the power when someone receives a fair trial if they are found guilty to even execute these individuals, but The government is Is even viewed by God as a minister.

That is an aid to the church.

And so if you could.

What. This is another thing that even guests that I have had on this program Have disagreed over. But what are or what is the extent of? The functions Duties and responsibilities of the government according to the scriptures.

What you just quoted seems to.

Reflect the fairly limited government, however, it wasn't very intricate or lengthy or cumbersome with all kinds of Burdens placed upon us as citizens.

Well, how close in your opinion is?

Our Constitution's description of the limits of government. How close is it to what the scripture tells us about that very same issue? We're going to go to our first break right now if anybody Would like to join us on the air with a question of your own.

Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. And please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. That email address again is chris arnzen at gmail .com. Chris arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Dick Guido after these messages from our sponsors.

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Go to NASBible .com. That's NASBible .com to place your order. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in. Our guest today is Dick Guido and Dick Guido is an elder at the Providence Presbyterian Church in Huntsville, Alabama.

Which is a congregation in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church denomination. And he's a member of both the New York and Alabama Bar Association and the bar of the Supreme Court. Today we are addressing church versus state not intrinsically in Opposition.

If you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. And as always. Please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter we have been getting some questions.

Who. Where the listeners are omitting their city and state and country of residence. So, please if you could send your email back the second time with that information. We have a listener in Cary, North Carolina named Scott.

And Scott says you asserted that the mandate given by God to government is broad, but also qualified It greatly. But also qualified it greatly with religious freedom exceptions and social welfare Functions.

And he says in parentheses, I think is the mandate given Really broad or is it more narrow? For example to be a terror to evil but broad within its limited mandate.

Well Scott you can send a clarifying email if you'd like to.

Also, please give me your full mailing address. Because since you are a first-time questioner, you have just won a new free New American Standard Bible. Compliments of the publishers of the NASB and compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CVBBS .com.

Who will actually be the ones shipping the Bible out to you at no cost to you or to Iron Trip and Zion Radio and Thank you for joining us today. We also have a question from your brother. We have your brother Bob in Huntington, Long Island, New York and he says this is your brother Bob and trying to Demarcate the boundaries of the free exercise clause.

Is it as simple as saying that the government must always demonstrate a compelling state? Interest in enforcing its given restriction.

Bob it turns out that you are a first-time questioner as well.

So give us your full mailing address in Huntington, Long Island, New York so we can get to you also a free new New American Standard Bible. And. We thank the publishers once again for their generosity in providing these Bibles for our first-time questioners and also CVBBS .com for shipping them out.

Scott from Cary, North Carolina has one more follow-up question. Where does government receive? Authority to absolutely prohibit the taking of the sacraments by restrictions that make it impossible. Not advising but prohibition.

Even if meeting for worship is dangerous where in Scripture is authority given to the magistrate. Oh, you're looking it up.

I'm going to just repeat our email address again. Anybody would like to join us on the air as well for with your own question. For dick Guido our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com see HR is a RN Z and a gmail .com.

Give us your first name city and state and country of residence. If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question is a personal private matter.

Is this Scott's second question. That was this Scott's second question, okay.

You let's see. I have to find it. Let's see, where are you Scott? I had just had you a second ago. Oh, here it is. Where does government receive authority to absolutely prohibit the taking of the sacraments by restrictions that make it impossible?

Not advising but Prohibition even if meeting for worship is dangerous. Where in Scripture is authority given to the magistrate.

Well, thanks again Scott.

And we now have another listener from Carrie, North Carolina. Henry and Henry says hi Chris. I have to take exception to the comment that other countries and monarchies Especially do not have the freedoms we enjoy in the United States.

The Netherlands is a monarchy and protects its cities protections for both freedom of religion as well as expression. This was in fact exemplified in New Amsterdam or what is now, New York several hundred years ago.

Well, I appreciate that and I think and I could be wrong perhaps. My guest Dick Guido knows better than I do. In fact, I know he does but I Am basically speaking about all the freedoms of the United States citizens at least those that we Still have that we may lose in the not-so-distant future like the Second Amendment for instance.

I know that there are many countries overseas That have much stricter gun control laws. And in fact, I have even had Disagreements with brethren who believe exactly as I do theologically in the UK, especially Who are very opposed to the American?

Enthusiasm over the Second Amendment. They like to have the government in control over those things. But I don't know enough about Foreign politics or politics in general to know whether or not I truly overstepped the bounds of reality in my statement, and I do know that there are countries that for years have permitted Activities that Christians would consider damnable and evil that we Do not have the freedom or liberty to partake in here without some kind of legal penalty if we're caught such as prostitution and until recently The sale and use of marijuana and some other drugs, but do you have anything to say about that that I overstepped?

The bounds of reality in my statement about other countries and monarchies and so on.

I don't think so. Well, I guess what Henry even though you disagreed with me.

You're getting if you want one free New American Standard Bible because you are also a first-time questioner. So, please make sure you send me your complete mailing address there in Cary, North Carolina.

Let's see, well we have to go to our midway break it's already that time. When we come back I'll let you speak for a while before we take any additional Listener questions dick. All right, but This is the longer than normal break folks.

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The State as God's Minister and the Scope of Civil Authority

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