The man explained that only one out of such -and -such, let's say ten, only one out of ten people will come to church with that, or maybe it's one out of twenty, but if, when they come, you greet them at the door, and you shake their hand, and you make eye contact, then one out of four of those will return, but if you don't do that, you know, one out of twenty will return, and so it had all of these kind of human psychology things, and so I think that's craftiness, and it's, Paul talks about things that we put away because of shame, and that is, I think he's referring here to the way the false prophets did, the false teachers tried to grow church, and some of the things they used, the deceitful statements about Paul, for example, or the deceitful claims that they made about their own lives, and their power, and their knowledge, you know, if that was all brought out into the clear, where everybody could see how they were manipulating the situation, they should be ashamed, but go back to my example of how to grow a Sunday school class using, basically, psychology and psychological methods to manipulate people, so I'm going to grab them by the hand, I'm going to look them in the eye, because one out of four will return.