What Is It? with Mark Spence Stumps Abortion Supporters with ONE Question!

I'm mr. Smalley. Do you believe that abortion is moral? Oh boy I'm glad I'm debating him instead of you

Many people have questions about God in the Bible with so many different views about God and how to interpret the Bible Many people wonder where they can turn to get biblical answers

Well have no fear turn to my friend Andrew Rappaport and his friends on apologetics live They can answer any question you have about God in the

Bible check them out Thursday nights 8 to 10 o 'clock p .m New York time at apologetics live .com.

You can watch or join the discussion at apologetics live .com and challenge him with anything Please ask him your really hard questions and tell him

Ben sent you But we are live apologetics live and as Ben said there or the

AI version of Ben ask us your Hardest questions and we are here to answer them.

So just come on to apologetics live Com that is the site to get all your questions answered tonight.

We're gonna be talking about the issue of abortion and that's why I started with the debate that would that Metzlik had with David Smalley there where David did not like the question

I asked him because he just spent two hours saying that the Bible is wrong because It argues for slavery, which is immoral well

David Smalley didn't like the fact that abortion claims ownership of another human being the same thing he was arguing two hours against and suddenly he wants to say abortion is good, but Slavery is bad.

Hmm. Here's the difference between the two Abortion when successful always leads in death of a person you claim you own

Slavery does not so With that now some of you are saying well, where is drew?

Well last week as you guys know, I was in California. I'll talk about that in a few moments I was in California working with a great ministry living waters doing their ambassadors

Academy leading a team there and So I could not do the show because I was busy and so drew got some folks to come in talking about post -millennialism

So that's it. He's gone. We tossed him. That's it. He's never coming back. Actually. No, he's just really busy but yeah,

I I will start off by just saying that I got a lot of flack because People thought I was going post -millennial that I would let people that believe in post -millennialism on here to make the arguments

Well, we had a lot of people's asking questions about post -millennialism drew is one

And he got some other regulars to the show to come in and talk about it I hope it was helpful for you.

I Have no problem with allowing other views that are not heretical to be explained here

So that is what we do. So this is a and D is saying it was a very informative show.

Thank you D. So KT skipped last week. I hope it wasn't just because it was post -mill but But yeah

So what we do want to do though is let you guys know that The first at least the first part of the hour we're gonna be talking about a new film with a friend of mine who

I'm very excited to have on and We're gonna talk about that. It's gonna be about the topic of abortion and At the top of the hour you have any questions.

Come on in go to apologetics live .com Go there click on the little duck icon. That's the stream yard icon give permission for your

You know browser to use your mic and your camera ask any question you have because as I say every week

I can answer any Question you have about God and the Bible because I don't know is a perfectly good answer

So with that, I do know Some folks are seeing me wear glasses something did happen while I was in,

California I don't know what but all of a sudden I'm having double vision and wearing the glasses seems to help So I'm wearing glasses.

I don't typically do that. But let's talk about, California Let me bring in our guest. Mr. Mark Spence from Living Waters How are you, sir?

He's muted He's in his car. By the way, I am in my car and I am doing well here in sunny Southern, California It's the hottest day of the year.

I think it's About 80 degrees So that's warm right now and you're you're in the car because you wanted to go for a drive and and do the podcast

Yeah, listen, I have a house filled with people and because I have a house filled with people We would be interrupted a million times

So the only possible place to be able to do anything like this would be in my car or in the studio at work

But we were filming all day today Different things so it was time to get out of there

All right. So before we before we jump to the film I want to get your take on something that I was gonna do this as part of the the intro with Drew but You'll be able to hear this.

I know you're on your phone. You won't be able to see it as well but I don't know if you've seen this yet, but I want to share the

Sparkle Creed With us if you haven't seen this Pronouns are plural.

I believe in Jesus Christ their child who wore a fabulous tunic and had two dads and Everyone as a sibling child of God I believe in the rainbow spirit who shatters our image of one white light and refracts it into a rainbow

Of gorgeous diversity. I believe in the Church of Everyday Saints as numerous

Creative and resilient Whose feet are grounded in mud and whose eyes gaze at the stars in wonder

I believe in the calling to each of us that love is love is love

So beloved, let us love. I believe glorious God, help my unbelief come in.

What do you think of that Mark? Wow Okay, yeah, no listen

I've I saw the first five seconds of that rant somewhere

I don't know whether it was Twitter or someplace I tend to not watch or listen to things like that unless I'm ready to kind of discuss it

And I didn't catch everything that she had said, but what I what I heard was Utter dog walk.

I mean it was that was pretty bad and it was filled with a lot of Issues a lot of problems that I think that she would even agree if she was reasonable.

I take it that was a female that was a female pastor in quotes

Yeah, no such thing, right? Yeah Yeah, listen that's not what the Bible teaches and it's really that simple that's not what the

Bible teaches Anything of what she had said I was trying to find something good, but she just kept going and that's very dangerous

I don't know where she got that mantra. The only thing I found good was when she mentioned Jesus Christ But everything else was you know, he's of two fathers.

I don't know who how she gets that one. I Guess it's a different Jesus. Yeah, right.

That's a different Jesus So she's not talking about the Jesus of the Bible You may spell the name Jesus the same way we spell the name

Jesus in the English vernacular But we're talking about two different beings. Most certainly so so that becomes an important thing

You've dealt with a lot of different world religions You know, you're actually you're your family background.

You have Mormons. You're from a Mormon Not you from a foreign background, but your family.

Yeah, right if I'm Eric correctly, you're even a descendant of Brigham Young, right? Joseph Smith.

Yes, I'm told right I my my aunt who is Mormon and her husband is a bishop inside At a

Mormon Ward. I was told that I'm a descendant of Joseph Smith. He'd be kind of turning around inside of his grave

Kind of freaked out on what I do But I mean, we're all descendants of Adam and Eve.

So yep And so so when you talk to someone who's Mormon This same issue comes up, doesn't it?

I mean, it's a different Jesus isn't not it is right So obviously we know that Latter -day

Saints will agree with everything that you say When it comes to words, but the terminology is different.

So the illustration that I like to carry out is You know imagine if somebody came up to you and said hey,

I was hanging out with your friend John the other day. I went Really you mean

I mean you were in New Zealand And he goes, yeah. Yeah. No, I was not in New Zealand, but I don't know why you'd say that mark

That's kind of crazy. I said well cuz my my friend John is in New Zealand He's all right.

Let's just get past that. So he's got some really crazy dreadlocks. I got no My friend

John does not have dreadlocks. He's bald unless he was wearing a wig He's oh, yeah, but he's got a crazy accent a southern.

I go. No, he doesn't have an accent at all He doesn't speak at all. He speaks sign language So as we go on and on and on we see that we are talking about two different people

So the name is the same but as we go into greater detail, we will see that We're not talking about the same person.

Yeah So let's before we get into what is it? We got someone backstage that was with us last week and maybe we could talk a little bit about Where what we were doing last week, but a guy from my team

Mr. Jimmy DeSantos Was with us and and Jimmy and I will be seeing each other next week as well hearts for the losses

Jimmy works with hearts for the lost and striving attorney and hearts for lost will be in Indianapolis Next Friday and Saturday doing an event from training and outreach.

So So Jimmy you you enjoyed, California, though It's it's better than Texas weather -wise

I suppose but the gas is a way expensive I was like man, I could I could handle this 65 degrees in the morning kind of thing

It's a hundred and five today in Texas. So Yeah, I enjoyed the weather a whole lot.

And of course, you know that the time we spent out there Learning growing, you know going out and witnessing that was excellent

But can't answer before we get you know any further de los Santos in yellow

Yeah, so here's the thing it's actually three three words that los Santos which means of the

Saints So, you know God chose me from before the foundation of the world as it says in Ephesians chapter 2

Delos on the record folks who see this for the record. He has Jimmy Delos Santos is one word.

He typed that in I just for the record I typed it in but that's because that's with Texas can't get it, right

I just got used to it being that way. So yeah, I typed it in so it's

How was it? It's D E L o s s a n t o s de los

Santos. But anyway, just want to make sure it was We're gonna correct this right now we can't have have

There we go, so there we go corrected, there we go Either way, all right

Jimmy, let's let's uh, let's ask Marco what I want to do at this first since you came in Let's make those who didn't make it to the

Ambassadors Academy jealous So they don't miss out next year mark.

What what is the Ambassadors Academy? What were we doing last week? Yeah, so the

Ambassadors Academy is an annual event where hosted by living waters Where about a hundred people from around the world come together to be

Inspired and equipped hopefully in the areas of evangelism and then we touch briefly upon apologetics

And then we roll up our sleeves and we hit the streets So this year we went to the Huntington Beach Pier and then the

Santa Monica Pier Third Street Promenade in Santa Monica where? Ray easy and I we went every

Friday for almost four years It's Designed to stay small and tight and intimate so we can kind of get together hang out answer questions ask questions and What was really cool about this year was there was an individual who was part of the

Academy who actually donated? Money for gospel tracks so that people can take as many gospel tracks as they want home

Which was a really cool Thing let me tell you so guys and girls alike and we just hit the streets

Yeah, actually there were a number of people I think took too much and because at the end we were going My bags too heavy you need you need tracks

Yeah, that's great What did you like about last week and and the

Academy this is I think you're a third Academy it is 2017 2018 and 2023

I Had to buy to buy a little duffel bag, and I checked my original bag so that I could take some tracks home

I also shipped a box though, so I Y 'all kept saying there's more back there

I don't know why there's more back there when when that was said I just I loaded up You know

I could always use some tracks, so yeah what I enjoyed about it was I mean There's a somebody asked me the question about having come three times

And then asked me you know why did you come three times actually a friend of mine that I wanted him to come

I told Him hey you should go to ambassadors Academy when the announcement was made He's like being iffy about it. I said man if you want me to go with you.

I'll go with you and so That's why I came to support him, but while I was here again

I get hyped up about evangelism while I'm there and somebody asked me would you come again, and I said you know what there's three

There's three things I can give you number one the fellowship of evangelists is different from just your church

I'm not love my church. I love going to my church, but the 2 % thing is true In my church is probably just a few people that are hyped up about evangelism as much as we are and so getting together with a

Hundred evangelists is crazy towns right it's just like you know that that vibe is different Second thing is the toolbox man

I heard some guys out there when I when I was listening to them You know on the box or as they were going witnessing

I was picking up tools. I was picking up things that I could throw on my toolbox right I can use that I heard

I heard a guy from Colorado When he got up there his name's Aaron when he got up there to preach

He was doing the good person test he said you know what I'm gonna take this test with you So you don't feel alone, and I said man.

I've never thought of that I'm gonna take that throw to my toolbox I'm gonna use that the next time I do something like that And actually when

I talked to Aaron after that his first time out there Doing any type of any type of witnessing?

I thought that was crazy and the last thing is just that I get hyped up again I guess you know we start to wane in our evangelism and the desire to do it and then

Going to something like that gets you all hyped up again in fact This is the thing Andrew we came back

We really put it into play and our elders have just approved for us to have an evangelism class starting on July 16th at my church

Amen we're like hey, let's do this man. Let's keep on going. Let's keep on moving so Really glad for that y 'all pray for us on that evangelism class.

We hope to get some students in there Teach him a little bit. You know so yeah, I was hyped up last week

Well that that's that's right, and I so so I did also take a bunch of the the million -dollar bill tracks

So needless to say I had in the Box that had just a hundred dollar bill like all of them put so I think it went through the scanner and someone said

Someone's bringing a lot of money, and they ripped the box open When I got home

There was just million -dollar bill like they're at least still in the packages But they're just all over they they ripped the box open to get to see what's inside there

I think someone thought he was hitting a jackpot But but yeah, you know

Jimmy one of the things we had with Aaron one things I picked up I never saw this done Aaron would get up now by the way for folks to realize

Aaron has a background in playing in the band So he's used to being like on the street playing in the band and getting the audience involved in so what he did when he

Gets up. He goes Everyone who thinks it's a beautiful day raise their hand Well, it's just like everyone walking by just put their hand up He's like everyone who wants to have a good day today raise your hand and He it was just he knew how to get the crowd as they're walking by to get engaged and then pull them in I was

Like I'm gonna try that that's something new for me And that's why you're so right. There's so many new things you learn from watching different people

Go out on the streets and and and have conversations And the thing that I've had every year that that I have been you know

Privileged to work with Living Waters and leading the team is I get guys like this year so many

I mean Jimmy you are the only one on my team that had any experience doing open -air and I had several guys come up to me afterwards at the end of the day because We're money say no on a computer.

It's a long day, right? I think we got there like after nine o 'clock and we're there till like four and By about three o 'clock.

Everyone's tired. It's I'm like hey you want to go up next? No, I'm done. No. No, I'm done Everyone's done and then we get to the graduation and accurate sitting around table at graduation.

Everyone's going. Oh, man, Andrew I should have gone up one more time. I should have Every year that I get people that are like they're tired

But then by the time we're at graduation they're going I wish I did more of it. I'm like, that's what you go home for So, yeah, so so mark we're grateful at least the two of us here are so grateful for Living Waters Putting the

Ambassador Academy on because it does every year. I come back. I'm spurred on to share the gospel

I get to see the guys who come in and they're all scared and Then they watch the you know

You guys at Living Waters and others who are doing open -air and go Oh, I could do this or handing out tracks or or starting conversations

It's not just about open -air, but we're grateful for you guys for putting this on each year. Oh, well

We don't know what we're doing You know, it really is funny it's it's there's a saying it doesn't matter how high you can jump but how straight you can walk once your feet hit the ground again and what we want to do is encourage people to go back to their

Jerusalem and Reach the people within their circle of influence. I mean, there's a reason why

I don't live in Texas or Colorado or any other place this I was born in Huntington Beach, right?

this this really is my Jerusalem and I have You know traveled the world, you know

I've been to I think 50 countries and 49 states and I'm going to I think 15 different countries, you know this year.

I've already been to two or three but It's just non -stop and that's the way it is, you know until we get to heaven, you know

We'll have our ultimate rest when we get to heaven, but we're always pulling away escaping away getting inside of God's Word and As Spurgeon said

I will study myself to death and then I'll pray myself alive Right and the whole idea and the concept there is it is a a

Tedious task To labor in the word or to labor and apologetics to labor in things, you know labor means work

So it can be a lot of work. We had a meeting today about our Ambassadors Academy that we plan on having next year in Paris, France for the

Olympics and We're like, all right, can we pull this off, you know, is this

I and I'm like, I don't let's just go Let's just go and tell people we're going and see if people want to go with us and so that's kind of what we're doing

We're creating an Olympic gospel track and we're gonna Hit the streets there in Paris for a few days

But there's not like there's a blue book to follow on how to put together, you know, one of these events

We're just a bunch of honestly a bunch of idiots who Have been told too many times no

But I've realized that God is bigger Than that and he's a god of miracles.

He When your eyes are on the Lord, you can mock the tumultuous storm that is around you you you really can

So the steps of a righteous man are ordered by the Lord I I wake up and I just I get excited for the day

Even though I get exhausted to get out of bed or when I go to bed at night. I just collapse in my bed

You know, well, I went to the UK when the Olympics were there to do two weeks of evangelism

So I'll have to sign up for the Academy in Paris He says this as John from Living Waters Europe always stresses that he failed the good person test

So that's another if you've heard him do it Jimmy he That's that's a similar thing.

I didn't know he does that. So here was a weird thing D I do not know John Harris before I met him at the this last week and It was very interesting because there's things he says and does that I thought were original with me and he thought was original with him

So pray for John it means he thinks like me, which is really scary for him

It's a it's a scary place to be if you think like me just saying so so Let I want to start off and Jimmy I don't know if you have questions for for mark tonight

But I want to I want to start off if I could and play the trailer For the new film that you have coming out mark you this is kind of your baby

I know you've been working on this for a long time. I think 2019

Ambassadors Academy you were you were filming for this I Think 18 or 19 because I remember you coming out with with the camera and you you grab some people right in front of where we were witnessing and hunting the beach and and Got some interviews there.

So I know this has been a long time in creation You've been thinking about this issue for even longer.

You've you I Like I think it was like you said to me one time two years.

You've just been reading everything you could on on Abortion and learning the arguments and so few people do that mark

So few people they just learn a couple quick arguments and then see how they could use it You're not that way.

You'd like to dig in and really understand both sides of an argument and Grasp, you know the way that someone who disagrees with you would argue and I think that really is essential in the way you argue because You've already thought through how you would argue if you were them and Let's listen.

I think you're giving me too much credit You know when

I was hanging out with John Harris yesterday or the day before he had said to me Mark You're very intimidating

And I said I said how so, you know, I'm sorry, you know, I apologize for that. I hope that doesn't mean

I'm not approachable and he says no you're just You're very intelligent you

Critically think through a lot of things and I said You're giving me too much credit, bro

Honestly, you know, I mean even a fool is considered wise when he just keeps his mouth shut

I'm just kind of taking everything in and like, you know, you'd played that that creed if you would or that mantra from that that woman wannabe pastor and I Listened to probably 20 % of it.

I just started daydreaming about dinner. I Don't I'm not a very deep individual.

I have swam in the deep end. I'm just comfortable in the shallow end you know, so I Believe that if you want to study something out you need to study what the opposing view is.

Hey, I get that I've attempted to do that But I think I've forgotten more stuff about the abortion and pro -life argument than most people

I've ever kind of decided to study so I don't even know what I know when it comes to this subject

You could probably hit me with a real simple question. I probably won't know the answer You know,

I mean my mind is already thinking through all of these other different projects that we're working on I'm not even

I completely forgot about this project. I tell you the truth, but You're gonna spill the beans and let us know what the next project is

To be exclusive well, I mean I'm writing three different books right now, right so I My mind is just always kind of kind of going so Good thing you have a

BD Jimmy. What were you gonna say? I was gonna say well, that's the case I did get a question from my youngest daughter at three daughters

My youngest daughter is 26, but last year right before the Dobbs decision came down She came here in the it to my house and in the kitchen she did daddy

Give me give me an answer. Give me an argument for the pro -life position without appealing to God That's exactly what she said to me now

I can tell you my answer, but I'd like to know what what you would have said to her mark if it was you yeah, well, there's a problem with the with the original premise there and We have to remember that as a

Christian it would only make sense that I'm going to appeal to God that I am going to appeal to the

Bible You know That would be like me Asking her to give me a good argumentation for whether it be the pro -choice the pro -life argumentation without using logic

So give me a good answer for Pro -choice being a good viable option in today's society, but don't use logic and don't breathe oxygen while you do

So it doesn't make sense, right? It makes sense that we utilize that which is closest nearest and dearest to us now

I can do this right but I but I think that in order to do so I Have to surrender my strongest tools in order to do so the most important So in other words, what you're saying is hey mark,

I want you to Hammer that nail and I'm gonna give you a wrench to do so.

Oh Okay, I mean, I'll do my best I'll start pounding it but you do understand that as a

Christian I'm I'm going to use the Bible as my source of authority because that is the ultimate source of authority and I think that always comes up lacking but just to answer the question, right?

I think that Now bear in mind I don't do this, right I I don't answer from this position but if I were

I do believe that the laws of science and Which is the the law of Biogenesis and embryology are on our side

Biogenesis each species will bring forth after their own kind and then we have the law of embryology Which simply says you are a distinct individual from the moment of fertilization never to be repeated in all of the future

So the science is on our side. We didn't bring out the Bible, but that is confirmed by the Bible, right?

And then we have Philosophy right philosophy when it comes to abortion is simply

It goes like this that The taking of innocent human lives is always wrong

Abortion is the taking of innocent human lives Therefore abortion is always wrong, right? that that is the philosophical premise because a and B are correct

C must be correct and So that doesn't deal with the Bible though that there's things that overlap in the midst of that But we have to remember that everything on the

Christian pro -life position side is true and accurate and everything else is just grasping for Straws Right, and there's more that I can say, but really those are that but most importantly it's theology, right?

God says it's wrong to to murder innocent human beings and that is the answer So when I was asking people out on the streets, you know, why is murder wrong?

You're getting the cheesiest answers But ultimately the answer is just because it's wrong to murder fellow image bearers that we're creating the image of God therefore we are all worthy of Dignity honor and respect.

So regardless if you're a homosexual or heterosexual We need to show dignity and respect towards all people

It doesn't mean I put up with their sin, but it just means that we honor all people and we speak well of all people

So I don't speak in a disparaging way behind the back of a homosexual. I don't have a secret joke

Towards homosexuals or towards african -americans. No what you see is what you get

This is how we react and respond to people in this world in which we live

Yeah, right. So and so Real quickly that that's a pre when we talk about pre -substantial apologetics

That's what you saw there right is we don't give up the two presuppositions. I hold to God exists.

He has spoken We don't give up those things. So we don't give up the truth and Jimmy I'll just tell you if I mean

Randy Alcorn has two books. I was trying to look for the the one the one is called why pro -life he wrote that to be a

Argument for Pro -life without appealing to the Bible or God But then he's got a larger one a thicker one that goes into giving a biblical appeal as well

So he's got two books. I couldn't remember the title of the second one Yeah, but those that may be something you want, but I what

I my answer would be similar to what I did Saturday when we were at Santa Monica and someone asked me to argue

You know prove God exists and I just said to him. I said, well, you don't believe God exists

He says no I said can you make that argument without appealing to the immaterial things that require

God like your ability to reason? Logic that or the laws of logic knowledge truth morality make your case that God doesn't exist without Appealing to the very things that require

God because if we're just chemical reactions, you can't explain any of those immaterial things I said so make your case that God doesn't exist without using your ability to reason go

And he just sat there was like well, I can't do that I said exactly you you you're your argument proves

God exists and then you want to say he doesn't exist That's the first man. Yeah, well

Andrew I did I did give her an answer I'll tell you I'll tell you what I did tell her when she told me that I said well

I can do that But the first thing I'm gonna tell you is whose morality am I gonna use yours? Am I gonna am

I gonna just go off of what you say is right and wrong because I tell you what I tried that for A long time with my own morality.

Guess what? I was wrong Right. I had to go and start to learn from the scriptures. What is truly wrong, right?

What is truly, right? But I'll give you this and this is what I told her you're in the kitchen. You're washing dishes

She's got a two -year -old daughter at this point She's two and I said just imagine that olive can speak at this point in time

She comes into the kitchen and she says to you mommy you're you're facing the other way mommy, can

I kill it? What's your next question? And she says to me? What is it?

It's exactly right. You turn around. It's a cockroach. You're like, yeah, baby all day long kill it if it's a puppy

We got some issues. All right, we got to go and figure out what what's going wrong, right? But that's the question, right?

What is it? So you got to ask yourself? What is it? Ultimately, that's that's the point right at what point does it become a baby in your mind?

There can be all these kind of excuses, but here's the one thing. I just leave you with I've never seen a

Pregnant woman give birth to a baby koala or a baby zebra. It's always been it's always been a human, right?

So That's that's my point. I mean it is a human that that you're taking that human life and destroying it

I don't think she was satisfied with that. Here's the here's the problem The issue isn't so much the abortion argument as much as her friends

Were influencing her with hey women's rights are being taken away This was all the talk right before the

Dobbs decision last year our rights are being taken away. We need to step up We need to say something we need to do this and we need to do that You know when

I confronted her with that she was well daddy. I'm not a follower I don't know a lot of us are

I mean, who are you gonna follow right? And so this is one of the things I'm a follower. I follow Christ, right?

So it's a big difference, but still In that I don't know that we got to where we wanted to be

I still think she has her leanings but pray for my daughter, right? Yeah, I'm still you know, I still love her

Who are we following and not always can acknowledge that we're following right so so Yeah, I mean so that that comes in a good now would be a good time for me to play this

Let me play the trailer to this film that we and this would be really too So mark remembers the work he did because it's it's been a while for him

So so this way he can you know, he can he can remember what it is he did so let's take a look at this trailer together and Ask the question.

What is it? Now? I'm gonna just say if you look the trailer up it says It is he stumps abortion supporters with one question

What is it? Here's the official trailer The president of Planned Parenthood went before Congress and argued for infanticide.

I don't believe that even for a second Since the beginning of time people have attempted to dehumanize certain types of people there should be a safe way to get rid of a

Baby, I would absolutely kill a baby right now if I needed to we are a nation that is quickly losing its moral compass

If somebody told me that they murdered somebody I wouldn't take it upon myself to judge them At what point does it become a baby? I don't know exactly there have been more than 61 million abortions in the

United States since it became legal in 1973 literally everyone has an opinion if we get pregnant we get pregnant

When does it when does it come on whatever the Supreme Court said? That's what I'm saying It doesn't matter if it goes against science your doctor

I think it becomes human when it starts to develop from the moment of conception begins to develop That's true

I'm gonna see if students are willing to sign a petition to legalize post -birth abortion

Hey, if you want to sign a petition to legalize late -term abortion It's after the child's actually been born so within the first 30 days is the idea is the concept

Okay, but but for the option at the end of the day, it's always gonna be the woman's choice. This isn't politics

This is common sense There are only four differences between the preborn and the newborn and none of them define our value as human beings

Getting an abortion the same as removing one's fingernails or removing a lung

It's a crime to kill an eagle's egg yet if a woman decides to kill her own child. We call her brave I'm rethinking my pro my approach always think you would you kill it?

What I kill what what would you kill it? What is it

All right, so that is the trailer for a new film mark do you do you know this is cut

So this is coming out. I think in pre -ordered download at living waters comm Soon yeah.

Well now yeah, so you you can get the download now if you go to livingwaters .com

It goes up on YouTube September 6th of This year and what we're going to do is we're gonna launch a campaign to get as many churches as we possibly can to Show the film in their church that week of September 6 starting

September 6 so that we can try to beat the YouTube overlords in the algorithms and the analytics

Where we show the film and while we're showing the film we're getting people to share the film all at one time all at the same time and that is a that makes it so you can

Beat the analytics with YouTube and Twitter and Facebook and everything else Hoping to try to push it and promote it on to people's home pages, so we'll see what happens

So so the thing is I so I have been privileged that you sent me the full the full documentary full film

I have seen it. I thought it was brilliant the the way that you did the interviews

Some of the colorful people no less Okay, I can't believe the one line where you talk to a doctor.

You're like having to point out. You're a doctor like It's it's amazing Just the the way you walk through the argument with people

I really think look I Was hoping pastor Darren who's a regular here would was gonna come in he's he's a director over with say

Operation Save America and abolitionist group and I really want to see the abolitionists latch on to this now

I know that the argument is not one that you know They've they've kind of don't like as much like the sled argument things like that But the reality is that I think the you know much of the abolitionist movement

Started with a film done by Living Waters called 180 I mean if that really had a major impact

I would argue that much of the abolitionist movement Is really you know a you know what we see today came out of people watching 180 a simple way to explain an argument the issue and and be able to Replicate that to where they can have that conversation with someone.

I think this film mark is does even more than 180 I think this is gonna go beyond 180 with making an argument that that shows the issue what the issues are

Explains the issues, but explains the how and the why? Let me just say this before I ask you you know to comment

But mark most of the documentaries I see that are geared toward apologists what they do is give you the how

Here go go replicate this. This is what I say you say the same thing and someone says it and the person says something

They weren't expecting and they go. I don't know what to do Because what's not explained in a lot of these is the why?

You guys in this documentary did both so that if someone gets stuck They understand why you're asking the questions you're asking so that they can take that conversation a different direction

And still be able to make it arguments that are biblical So, you know, I really think just You know that every church

Let me everyone listening either live or on podcast or later on YouTube or Facebook.

My challenge to you is Do as mark said contact living waters comm find out how your church could have a watch party

Get every church to have a watch party on this So that so that we can get this out there and get it known

Mark what I mean? Which you've been doing these interviews for a while. This is you know, it's been a long time

With the argument you've you've done. What is the the thing you found the most helpful for you in in the arguments?

You use that you're gonna present in what is it? So if I understand the question because I'm not very smart

You're simply asking what is the best argumentation? I use what I'm out on the street Well, how have you seen it with the argumentation that you do how have you seen it helpful in other words

You we have a lot of people that make really complex arguments. You're not Why is that?

Listen, I don't think it's very difficult to change somebody's mind when it comes to abortion

I'll just tell you that I don't think it's that's a very hard thing to do Especially when they have no dog in the fight and I define that as they haven't had an abortion or they don't know somebody that Had an abortion when some when it's personal

Then it becomes a little bit more difficult. It doesn't matter how you answer the question They're not necessarily interested in the answer, right?

so for example, sometimes when people that have had an abortion in the cases of rape or incest and they

They say hey abortion should be legal in these rare cases and then

I dismantle the argumentation They still stick to their guns and they still say that abortion should be legal in these rare cases

They're not asking the question These rare people are not asking the question to see if the baby has a heartbeat but to see if you have a heartbeat

Right. Do you care? Do you have a heart about what these women have gone through and the difficult?

Situation that lies ahead of them if they go through with having this baby Right, they're not always

Trying to trip you up And so usually when I'm talking to someone and they're not willing to concede in any way shape or form

Concerning some really good answers to these somewhat difficult questions or the mantras that are being spoken

Then there's something a little bit more personal that's attached to it So when I say it's not difficult to get somebody to change their mind about abortion

It really is not that hard if somebody wants to kind of remain reasonable the the difficult part comes

When you're talking about something that is miraculous Which is what? this is a gospel centric issue and What I mean by that is if I get somebody to change their mind about abortion

Yet, there's still a heathen All that's gonna happen is they're gonna practice safe sex

But whatever that means right they'll be wearing condoms when they go practice their safe sex

And then they'll say well, you know what? I maybe maybe abortion should be illegal and I would never do it personally

You know and it becomes a slippery slope. Well, this is why every abortion

Argumentation that I get into I Always try to bring it back to the gospel Where where do they stand with God?

That's always important because I don't just want to win an argument Right. I want I want their soul to be one and that's the miraculous, right?

The greatest miracle that has ever taken place is the miracle of salvation which started with an empty tomb right, and there's where our hope came from so yeah, we could we could answer some of the questions and the common objections that are out there, but We have to be patient when we're out on the street

Because but by the grace of God there go you and I and before I was a Christian I was pro -choice

I believed in evolution. I mean homosexuality was not cool 33 years ago when

I was a Non -christian, but if it was well, then I would

I would I would have believed that homosexuality was okay you know and But that's that's not what happened

And then when I became a Christian I see that if any man's in Christ He's a new creation the old things that passed away behold all things become new and now

I no longer believe in evolution no longer in my pro -choice and The Bible tells me what happened and explains to me

All that has taken place. So yeah, and and mark just if you can mute There's some people saying because your microphone when you're not talking tries to it's trying to pick up other noise so if you if you can you you're not just so because people are saying the static was was getting much so We did have

Melissa missed it. But mark will the movie come free on YouTube? I know you already answered that Yeah, the video is will be free on YouTube so people can share who knows how long it'll stay there and honestly

I I don't care. I don't care if we put it up there and it's taken down the next day that that's none of my business

You know, it's none of my business what God does or how he uses or doesn't use

This film if this film goes up on YouTube and it's taken down the next day. I'm not gonna lose any sleep

I've committed it to the Lord we've had plenty of films and videos that we produced that goes up and immediately gets taken down and They have no permission to take something down without ultimately

God saying that we're going to take this down So, yep, it's gonna be free on YouTube that's what

YouTube works so yeah Jimmy do you gonna say son?

No, it was just I was looking at the comments just down. I came across one interesting. I put it in the chat for you

Yeah, you know, I got I yeah, I'm gonna say that for the top of the hour, but okay Okay, I was just like when

I saw it I was like that's right up Mark's alley I told Mark want to talk the first hour about the this film

So so mark, are you guys do you have the plans to put this on a DVD and do like we did with 180?

We're we're gonna be going to college campuses passing them out there No, not on DVD because DVD is a bit of a tyrannosaurus rex, right?

It's it's a dinosaur I I don't even have the ability to play a DVD anymore

However, we do have DVDs available of the film. I it's on blu -ray. I Don't think we're selling them.

I have no idea. I'm not part of the sales department there at Living Waters But I believe that we offer them for well as an incentive for people who gave to help

Finance the film what we plan on doing is Making a really nice Like coin or cardstock of some sort of material where everybody does hit the high school and the college campuses all on the same day to be able to hand out a

QR code of The film with on one side. It has kind of the artwork if you would that Brad Snow created and then on the other side

Is the QR code so it says what is it and then you flip it over? It's just the QR code and it brings you right to the film

Okay That'd be good So instead of me like I was gonna say me a flash drives

But hey a QR code doesn't cost nearly as much as a flash drive. So Yeah, everyone's curious.

So they're gonna go to it, you know, go check it out. Anyway, cuz they want to know what it is That's the plan

That's good, that's it's exciting. I definitely want to talk to my elders about September having that showing but I'm kind of interested to go now to the website and download it for myself and Take a look.

I have you know, I'm not like Andrew I don't get special treatment, you know get a free a free copy since me but you know,

I will go I will go download it though because Enough see

Jimmy listen email me. I know a guy that can send you a link It's you know what it's okay,

I really like giving to the ministry anyway, I'll go I'll go download it We don't have to do that. I'm serious, man.

I'll go. I'll go. I'll go. What is it? What 20 bucks or something like that? So it's $500

Make it payable to Andrew Rappaport I'll go check it out.

And you know, I'll also send you an email. We got to talk about some things. But yeah Yeah, so so the the thing with this

I think mark that really struck me. Yeah, I've heard people do this the sled argument, right?

It's it's not original Steve. It's these things Steve Scott Klusendorf came up with it Steve Schwartz Steve Okay, I wasn't sure.

Okay. I wasn't sure which one All right, so but but it's a really simple argument, but if folks aren't familiar with it, could you just kind of go through?

Briefly what the sled argument is? Yeah So Steven Schwartz inside of his book on abortion he said there really are only four differences between a preborn which some people say are not human and a newborn which most people say is

Human, right? The four differences are if you follow the acrostic or this the acronym sled

SLED We see that there obviously is a size difference The preborn are obviously smaller than newborns

Well, yeah, but why does that mean somebody is not human? Of course, they're smaller some people say well

How can something the size of a dot be a human being and our response is well Why can't something the size of a dot be a human being?

I mean, we all have to start somewhere I mean men are typically larger than women. Does that mean men are more human than females or we have

The example that I use inside the film is Dwayne the Rock Johnson is larger than the comedian

Kevin Hart I think that's his name And does that mean

Dwayne the Rock Johnson is bigger than Kevin Hart Well, no, obviously not

So there's the size and then you have L which is the level of debark level of development people say well

It's not developed yet, it's inside the womb. It's not developed. It's not human. It's not a human being

We so we'll know it is developed In fact, it's as much developed as you would expect it to be at that point of development

Right. We're not expecting a preborn to be able to give birth to a child herself

Well a five -year -old cannot give birth to a child another child We don't think that five -year -old is any less of a human being just because it's less developed than its mother

So less developed and then we have a which is environment or location. Well, it's not in the world yet That preborn is not in the world.

It can't be a human being to which we say it is in the world It's just in a different location. There's no window on the womb so we can't look in and see that child but an astronaut doesn't cease to be human being because He's an outer space right and Then we finally we have a the

D which is the degree of dependency We say well, how can something that is so dependent upon its mother be a human being to which we say?

Well, why can't something that is dependent upon its mother be a human being right?

So we have people that are hooked up to dialysis machines people that take life -saving medicine every day a

Child may be able to say a newborn may be able to cry may be able to eat

But cannot walk around cannot talk and communicate the way you and I do they are dependent upon their mother

I know of a lot of teenagers that are dependent upon mother that 35 year olds that live in the basement of their mother

They are so dependent upon other people. We do not kill people that are dependent upon other people

We help people that are dependent upon other people we come across a car accident

We see somebody who needs help. We give them help We don't kill them a civilized society does not kill people in need.

So if you follow that acrostic the SLED we have the size level of development environment degree dependency

None of these are strong enough to say we can kill The pre -born and not kill the newborn.

No, we shouldn't be killing either one So Stephen Schwartz, he develops it a little bit better inside of his book

But we cover it inside the film as well. And like you said, it's nothing new Scott Klusendorf he covers it as well inside of his life training classes and other people deal with it as well from Jeff Durbin to There's truly so yeah, so but but it is very easy to explain, you know, and and I thank you to Melissa she put it up and and you know, if folks want to are watching they can see the

SLED that Mark was talking about size level of development environment degree of dependency and Jason Cave says to you mark love this exclamation point.

So You know This is this is the thing that we end up seeing is that Folks, it is not very hard to make an argument for the pro -choice position

You know We can very easily walk through as Mark just did that didn't take long to do and when you watch this film

They're gonna expound each of those to explain them so you you can see why these arguments Can be used why they make sense why they're biblical and why when you're discussing abortion

This is a good way to argue So I I just I really think it's it's great

I'm looking forward to this coming out for everyone to see So, let me ask mark.

We had it. We had some some comments and questions that I'd like to bring up First off D says had said earlier

I met Ray comfort at Huntington Beach Pier a few years back and had lunch later at in and out

Okay, here's my question for you what is the fascination with in -and -out burger mark

I don't get it Yeah, I know and I understand that right so I eat it in and out

Two three times a week. I have one right across the street from where I live You're at my house, you know earlier in the week

Andrew and there's an in -and -out just right right around the corner there I think it's something that you kind of grew up with like I Love bologna sandwiches just bologna and white bread.

I also love tomato sandwiches, which is just bread and tomato But I didn't grow up with any money, all right, so What you grew up with you tend to gravitate towards so I grew up with in -and -out so I really like in -and -out

And I love Del Taco I don't think you guys have Del Taco anywhere near where you're at But I eat at Del Taco a couple times a week and for $2

You can fill your stomach with stuff. That is not exactly real food. So okay mark.

I've seen you eat and No, $2 is not gonna get you to not to get you to fill your stomach

Well, listen, you don't get a body like this through neglect. All right as Ray says I May not be in shape

Good shape, but it is on my I went over my bucket list to my to -do list to work out

And I do plan on working out when we're done Talking here, it's not too late. Well round is a shape.

It is a shape. It is a shape. All right, so so D had said this

Just for folks to be praying. She said pray pray for me that I can share the gospel with a

Muslim co -worker Any tips? Yeah, no, or the first thing that I say concerning that is the things that I like to focus in on when

I'm when I'm talking to a Muslim is grace and Jesus and Listen the gospel opens people's eyes now with that, you know, they like to pull out the idea that Where does

Jesus say worship me for I'm God and once you are able to successfully answer that question

They move on to the next question, which is typically, you know, the Bible's been corrupted, you know, and you can't trust that I'll tell you

John Harris. Our European agent has actually dealt with this Pretty well, you know, so I'd recommend him and his resources to you

Jay Smith. I Love that brother when it comes to Islam He's actually dealt with this a lot and we deal with this his answers and living waters equip, which is now being

Released in the springtime of next year. No way. Yeah, so that's a long ways away.

I Think I remember the filming of that was probably like well, it's pretty covert

I know that yeah, you're on there, you know, and this is because we're not just launching living waters equip We're also launching living waters

TV, which will include a lot a lot of different channels So we're building the content and everything on there for all of the different material

But so when dealing with a Muslim, especially if it's a long -term relationship,

I want to say You want to love on them and you want to serve them and you want to let your light so shine among Men that they may see your good works and brings glory to your father in heaven and I am always going to try to Work on my conversation.

I'm always gonna be lifting up in prayer my co -worker I'm not just trying to be a one -and -done conversationalist when it comes to any of these areas but they kind of repeat the same old mantra just like any and all religions do and I do believe that a

Muslim who is worth his weight knows material can turn the average Christian into a doctrinal pretzel in less than 30 seconds so Know what you believe in why you believe what you believe?

We don't have a lot of Muslims here in Southern California in the area where I congregate in the areas where I go and talk

To you, you know, but if I did let me tell you I would study Islam out, you know pretty well

Yeah, and let me ask Jimmy because last week on Saturday We did deal with someone and we had a young Muslim man a very intelligent guy who was actually going from team to team

We we he dealt with several people on at several different teams Jimmy you spent a good amount of time talking with him along with some others on our team

That we had sharing with him So I want to and I'll explain how I dealt with him after but if you could explain

What were your thoughts? What did you talk with him about? Well when I I remember the young man

He was monopolizing a lot of time. I caught that he was a you know using the time my friend that goes out witnessing with me his family is

Not practicing Muslim, but they're they associate with Muslims and back in his mother Russia or where he's from.

And so He gets to talking to Muslims on the bridge where we evangelize and sometimes they monopolize this time

I have to come over and grab him say hey There's other people to witness to grab their number Call him back later, right and see if you can't you know have the conversation because it takes time with a

Muslim but I will say this this is my I Don't want to say standard because the conversation can can flow it ebbs and flows

It depends on what what you're talking about, but I do ask a Muslim. Do they believe in justice? And when they tell me they do

I'll give him a scenario I'll tell him, you know, you've got a sibling or maybe maybe your mom somebody breaks into mom's house

And and murders her right and all the evidence is in the guy did it they take him to court When they get to court, hey, all the evidence is there.

He's found guilty The judge is about to sentence him when the guy says hey, I've got three million dollars

Take my money. Let me go If the judge takes that money, what kind of judge is he and of course, they'll say he's corrupt

They'll say, you know, he's he's a corrupt judge and I'll say okay. Let's let's talk about you now, right?

And we talk about the law we bring about the law when you know, have you lied? Have you stolen the good person test kind of thing?

I I can present the law in several different ways But if you've broken God's law and you try to bribe him with your good works

What kind of judge is he? That's a corrupt judge The same is the same as you would you would expect for justice to be brought to the man that murdered your mother

God is a God of justice And he won't let sin go and no amount of good works are gonna bribe your way into heaven

It's just not it's just not gonna happen that way and so when I tell them that your debt needs to be paid then

I can put to Jesus and Talk about how Jesus paid the debt that is owed by guilty sinners to a good and Just God and that when he died on that cross

He was paying that penalty so that a way could be made for guilty sinners to make it into heaven And I can present the gospel that way to them

I I've done that several times on the bridge here in Dallas when I've met a Muslim And like Mark said, they're really kind of just standoffish, but I try to build something if I can get their number

I'll try to get their number because it's gonna take some time With them. I do want to befriend them and there are you know, there are quite a few

Muslims at my job And so I can feel where D is coming from. And so I would say that that's that's a starting point

But I do want to hammer home the fact that Jesus paid the penalty and say you you owe a debt in God's courtroom

Look to Jesus as the righteous one that paid that debt because you can't pay it on your own all your good deeds

They amount to nothing against the against all the crimes that you've committed throughout your lifetime

And so ultimately that's that's kind of the way I I approach it Yeah, and oh you say some more go ahead

Well, I was just gonna say probably the best conversation I've ever had with a Muslim was at the

Academy on the Huntington Beach Pier where He agreed to come on camera.

He said that he debates his Christian friend all the time concerning You know

Islam and when we were all done He was agreeing with everything that I said, and he said

Look I did not come to the beach expecting this conversation. This has been absolutely amazing the best conversation

I've ever had and we got the whole thing on camera, which was really beautiful, which was uh, yeah, just just tremendous

It doesn't always go like that. Right? I mean we have to remember that salvation belongs to the Lord. We cannot save Anybody we are going to plant we are going to water and hopefully we get to see the increase

But if there is no increase, that's none of our business There will always be an increase in God's timing with the people that he chooses to save Yeah, you know

You know, it's interesting because I was watching with this Muslim young man and there were the four team members of ours that talked to him and I did not one of the things

I usually do when we get When I get the team together as I explain kind of my rules for doing outreach and one of them is if I come by And say

TW it means you're dealing with a time waster someone that you could talk all day with You're gonna get nowhere.

And so I I was gonna walk over and say that and then I realized oh wait I didn't tell you guys what

TW means so I can't walk by and say TW and so I just walked over into the conversation

And you know, I for folks to know I have a book called. What do they believe in one of the chapters covers

Islam? I studied through the Quran and and systematized Islam and So the thing was

I started asking him questions about Islam I said look, let's just get agreement if the Bible was corrupt if it if it said things that are contradictory

Could we agree the Bible couldn't have been? written or Sustained by God and he's like, well, yeah,

I said, okay. Can we say that with the Quran? He's like, oh, no, no. No, I said no, but if if it's got a contradiction

He says he finally said, okay, if it has a contradiction then yes, and I said, okay surah chapter 5

Talks about the Christian Trinity being the father the mother and the son. I Said is that the

Christian view of the Trinity? He goes? Well, no, I said do we worship Mary as God? He's no

I said, but that's what Allah says in the Quran that that's a contradiction He's like I'll have to look that up.

I'm gonna look it up in the Arabic Okay I said you believe that the the Bible was first written by Moses and then corrupted by men and then

David and then corrupted By men and then Jesus and corrupted by men and then Muhammad, but it's not corrupted, right?

He goes Yeah, and I said well help me understand something because your third imam

Uthman when when they didn't have the Quran written down he their soldiers were dying in war and he said hey

Let's let's write this down And he realized there were different versions and he said to burn the abhorrent texts

I said, how do you know he burned the right ones because men corrupted God's Word every other time in your belief

How do you know he kept it this time? And he was like wait, wait, I don't know anything about Uthman doing that As well, this is what

I was taught in an Islamic history course in in university and you know that I had taken

So this is taught from a Muslim from a Muslim perspective. I said you should go research the history

He's like I'm gonna do that. And so he's supposed to get back to me after he researches it We'll see I gave him my contact information but it quickly went from somebody who is just Trying to be on the defensive or sorry on the offensive with all the

Christians Making them argue for the Trinity and things like this and when he tried that with me I just said can we agree that God's greater than our ability to understand?

He said yes I said so once he got to arguing for the Trinity and it didn't make sense. I said well, thank you

He's like, what are you thanking me for? I said for agreeing that the my God is the biblical God because he's more than our ability to understand you can understand your

God And he just sat there for a second went Because I already got up front

The commitment that the God that does exist is greater than our ability to understand so he quickly was on the defense of having to take notes having to pull out his

Quran and Then having to go and say I gotta research this I said good I think I think you should

I think he will he seemed like a pretty sincere guy And I hope to hear from him, you know

But we don't have to know a ton of Islam But I would say if you get my book

What do they believe it will help you in just understanding a basic overview and give you some some easy ways to make arguments one that Mark our friend

Matt slick always likes to use it talks and I forget where this is But he's I've watched him do this in debates that in in the

Quran It talks about the seed of man is in the small of the back And he's had

Arabic speakers explain like where exactly is this by and there and and he had a guy in a debate that actually

Was trying to argue that the the the semen Actually originates in the small the back and works

And Matt it's the brilliance of Matt he goes are you being serious? Like you know,

I mean they will deny the science, you know, because they can't deny

You know the the idea of Islam and and I said to the young man I said well to be a

Muslim means to submit right and he says yeah So you need to decide what you're really submitting to the

Quran and and the religion of Islam or the God that actually exists the God of the Bible And he had to think about that one.

And and so I hope he does Let's see some another question we got

It's okay, so Jason cave says this is why apologetics is so important know what you believe

Know why you believe it and how to convey and defend the true gospel of Jesus Christ Mark, this is a master what you you're a master of what he's saying.

I mean you do this all the time You you're you know, one of the things with you. I'm gonna put you kind of on the spot a bit

You're you are the quote master You have more quotes in your head that you get from the from folks

I mean you just if anyone listens to the Living Orders podcast one of the things what

I hear is you just you're quoting this person and that person this person and You're but there's a lot of people that just take quotes from other people

You know how you know quotes from others, but you know how to use them you know how to take an argument even if it's an argument someone else makes break it down and Convey that That is important to apologetics

How can folks learn to do that better Like how great

I'll add one extra question to it if they get stuck on a quest they get stuck on the street How what tips can you give if they're trying to be as good as you they want to learn like you like as much as?

You you know How do they do this? Is it you know, does it come overnight? Is there any tips you can give to put well listen?

I once again, I think you're giving me more credit than I deserve Leaders are readers, so we need to always be reading and I'm past the place of just reading a book.

I Want to read to grab a hold of something that is very practical that I can use in my everyday life

So when I hear something that really stands out man, I'm gonna highlight it. I'm gonna underline it. I'm gonna email it to myself

I'm gonna send it up as a tweet, but it now becomes a part of me So I don't want to just kind of lollygaggle through life and My time is just too valuable

Right. I'm 51 years old. I can't just fill my time with endless mindless pointless

Games and television. I just don't have the time to be able to do that. So I say

You need to read You know read and look for stuff that you can actually take and that doesn't mean word for word like I was talking to John Harris yesterday and part of the part when he had said

Mark, you're you're intimidating. You're so intelligent. I went John No, because we have a podcast that's coming up pretty soon on Jim Elliot and I said

You know, I'm gonna read a book, you know from Jim Elliot here or a lot of material

And he said you're gonna read a book to prepare for a podcast And I said, yeah, well, why wouldn't

I? And he we got into this whole discussion about how to read a book I said you are probably reading a book word for word.

I don't read books word for word I read books thought for thought In other words, I'll read

I'll look at a paragraph and I'm looking for the context of that paragraph Before I move on to the next book so I can read a book a lot quicker than the average person

Just because I'm reading thought for thought and not every single word. I have a friend if you asked him

Have you read that book? He could not honestly say that he read that book whatever that book was unless he read

Even the page numbers down at the bottom of each page. He was like that convicted

I'm like like a boy. We are so opposite I typically will read the last chapter first just like if I'm gonna end up watching a film it drives my wife crazy

I will always Google how a movie ends So I know what

I'm getting myself into Alright, so I see how a movie ends like alright

Yeah, I can watch this and I'm not surprised Ray does this when he watches rugby, you know every night He watches rugby every single night and if his team loses he doesn't watch the game

But if his team does win, he knows that he wins because he doesn't watch the the match live He Googles the

Score and he watches it on his TiVo I think that's the name of it and then so when the other team begins to celebrate he doesn't take any notice for that He's just as a you wait your time's coming

Alright, you're gonna lose. Well Just read and Read quickly

So I move on to the next one some questions that came in for you a Facebook user here And by the way, if you want to get your name showing up if you're on Facebook go to apologize live comm

There are instructions for your name to show up on how to get that you got your permission So Facebook user s mark, what kind of stuff should people read if they want to be better Street evangelists the

Bible? And and I know that sounds kind of You know, it's overly simple but that really is it right so I Have certain scriptures that I've memorized when it comes to evangelism

When it comes to grace or mercy or the ascension or the resurrection or the deity of Christ, you can email me

I'll be happy to send it to you But get those things inside of you. I remember many years ago when we had the evangelism boot camp

There was a guy named Neil Collins I don't know if you remember him But I thought he was the best opener preacher that was ever part of the

Academy and what he did was He just got so much scripture inside of him that when he would answer questions.

He was just answering scripture Answering with scripture all the questions that were coming his way and I went

He has such authority when he speaks You know, he's not using cute and quaint stories or even quotes from other people, you know the quotes that come out of me

I don't know. They're just there just because I read it I wanted to be a part of because I think that they're really great

But if you can get scripture in you listen, there'll be ample opportunity to get it out of you now

If you're saying okay, I get it now Now what? Well, there there are a lot of great books, you know out there first I would say grab a hold of the foundation of living waters teaching with Ray Comfort with way the master get that book

Read the book. God has a wonderful plan for your life It's a great book listen to the teachings true and false conversion hell's best -kept secret

Once you get that you understand the purpose of how to use the law and why the law was given that was our tutor our school master to drive people to Christ and then be ready to elevate

Christ, you know John Stott said you cannot properly preach the gospel if you do not properly preach

Christ So we want to have Christ be preeminent and what we talk about and lift him up.

So Once you do that, yeah, then just start Reading books on maybe how to answer questions because I think evangelism naturally flows into apologetics

I'm given a defense, you know for the faith and I Enjoy presupposition apologetics.

I think it's God honoring Yeah, you know, it's essentially you say that with the open air because I remember when

I was in the UK during the Olympics I was with a brother from From Alabama and I realized his preaching was just so great to listen to and I realized why all that most of what he was

It was just quoting scripture. In fact, I ended up counting he referenced 75 different passages of scriptures in 60 minutes so he was giving he was referring to more than one scripture a minute because he just he was just stringing scripture together and It was it was really they have that much memorized this is good

Jimmy It looked like you were gonna ask something or say something well, I Contributing to the this conversation that y 'all are having.

I just I've met people on the street said that well Well, tell me don't use the Bible when you're explaining this to me.

They don't need to know the address But still scripture still comes out of me. And I think that I think the one thing that that people don't

Necessarily get well in the world secular world. I can't but speak scripture

Where would I go right like like they like Peter told Jesus what would we go? You have the words of life?

so ultimately I when I hear Mark say that get the scripture in you I'm reminded my uh, my uh

Mentor was my stepfather after my father passed away. My mom married another preacher She must have had a thing for preachers, right, but she married another preacher

And Brother Ramirez was was my mentor when I first became a Christian and he would he would tell me this one thing

About the transformation the renewing of your mind. It's like it's like a glass of tea down here in the south

We like iced tea, you know And so one of things take that glass of tea put it under running water

Eventually all the tea comes out and all you have is clear water You've taken all the dirt and everything that was in your mind out and you've replaced it with living water right the

Word of God and ultimately what comes out of your mouth will be the argument that comes from scripture because I mean

I think that's why Jesus said, you know The Holy Spirit's gonna help you in those times when you have it reminds me of a time on the street with a guy named

Eris, I this conversation is always fresh in my mind because he wanted me to put the Bible away He says oh you're talking about that book and this was an intelligent a black man who immediately told me that's a white man's book

And I'm like, okay. I'm a little for it. I'm Hispanic. I'm like, okay I'll tell you what, let me put it up here and we'll come back to it later, right?

And I'll ask you some questions about it. The rest of what we talked about was sin And his his need to put it away

Repent put his stress in Jesus when I came back to the Bible and I and I asked him have you read it?

He's like mom bits and pieces. How are you gonna rail against something that you've never even? You know and and ultimately when

I when I hit him with that he was like, you know, you're right But we've already had a conversation a gospel conversation that included a lot of scripture he didn't even know it

Correct, right as I was having that conversation. So I think for a lot of people that's you're right mark I would just put it this way anybody listening read your

Bible man Get get that Bible in you because when it comes out it's gonna have answers you didn't even expect we're gonna we're gonna come out

Yeah, so that I just wanted to contribute that when Yeah, it listen The Bible says that the

Word of God is living and powerful sharper than any two -edged sword It does not return void Hebrews 412 tells us so the more we can

Utilize the Word of God the more we know that it's going to hit its target

So and we need not be ashamed of that Yes, the thing is the thing is

Jimmy is I I don't have to worry about that because as I'm getting older I forget where in the

Bible I'm reading from But Hey, this is historic this is historic mark we've never had this before on this show

Brad snow says howdy Brad snow is watching. This is his story We get a like note this for history

Brad snow It's the legend. I we talked to I talked about Brad snow earlier inside the show

Yeah, I don't remember what I said about him But it was something very positive and I will say this about Brad, right?

Brad is one of one of my most favorite people in the entire world. I've known him for several years

He is the real deal. He loves his family. He loves the Lord he desires to fall forward, you know to step out of the boat and My life seriously is what it is and it is richer because of the relationship that I have with that man

I am indebted to Brad snow. He is our website administrator and designer and graphic artist and I Cannot believe all that he does, you know and that he works at living waters with me

Hey Anthony, can I can I add something about Brad snow? So for anybody that's listening that may be thinking about next year going to To ambassadors

Academy Brad snow, I don't know if he'll give the same talk he did this time But most definitely he told a story about you ain't got no pancake mix.

That was just that was just uh, I'd like the It had me in stitches man

This was a really great story and then the PowerPoint that he had with it was just fantastic I thought what what an entertaining piece of what we needed to learn

But he was also informative and gave us a lot to think about So I would just say that if Brad snow gives that talk again next year

And you guys are thinking about going ambassadors Academy you're in for a treat, right? So Brett snow says

Wow with a little smiley face with a tear, but but let me say this. I agree with you mark

Seriously folks if you go to Ambassadors Academy if you get a chance to meet Brad snow, it will be something you remember

I mean, he really is a brother. I cherish seeing every year that I go out there and so yeah, he's

He is the real deal for sure And he loves it when you scare him folks.

Just if you scare him he no no He scares easy.

He scares very easy All right, so so um

What another question that we got for you mark is from Rob? Is it more important to read a lot of books or take time in a book that might take longer to read so so Outside of the

Bible you're you're trying to get books down which is better to read a breadth or the depth

Well, it depends on the book but I I would say read until you recognize

That the book is no good. It's not for you and then get rid of it, you know If if something is connecting with you with the book well, then just read the book

Here's the thing about books and publishers. I'll let you in on a little secret that publishers do and that is

You can submit a book to a publisher the publisher grab has the book and the publisher can come back and say

You know what you need to add Three more chapters to this book and by doing that we can elevate the price of the book and Then the author comes along and says what are you talking about?

I'm done with the book. I have nothing more to say They say yeah, but if you add three more chapters

Then I can elevate the price of the book and we'll make more money and so they're in a lot of publishing companies are interested in the financial side of Producing books and and so now the author is kind of forced under contract to kind of write more material and that material may not be very significant and Because that material is not significant

Somebody can come along and say well, I didn't get a lot out of that book I didn't get a lot out of these chapters and I blame the publishers

Yeah You know for that because they kind of put authors in a bind to try to create things like that The absolute idea would be to produce your own book publish your own book if possible

So then you can produce exactly what you want to want to publish So that's why I read thought for thought when

I'm reading through books I'm looking for material and I have that mindset of knowing that there just might be some filler material

Inside some of these books not all authors are under obligation to be able to do that. But I do know

Especially as of late that you're gonna find books like that grab ahold of some old books 100 years ago

Stuff like that did not exist. That was just what the author wanted to produce so If you want to really find a subject listen,

I'll let you in on something else and that is RC Sproul Is able to he was able to grab ahold of some really complex material

Simplify it and he was able and Paul Washer has made this known as well That what

RC Sproul can say inside of a single article It's taken many authors to put inside of an entire book

So if you want to know certain Theological terms and issues and they carry out to move that into doxology

Just read what Sproul has said on a subject and you're gonna see that there's not many filler sentences and words in the midst of the stuff that you're gonna learn from Sproul Whereas you can grab a hold of somebody else with 250 pages and you're gonna go.

Oh, yeah That's exactly what Sproul said inside this 2 ,000 word article So avail yourself with Sproul's material because he cuts the chase and is able to connect with its reader

Like nobody like nobody there's nobody like it the crucial question series. That's a that's a really good

Little small little books by RC Sproul that really pack a lot of punch Yeah That's what a lot of people have said when my books what do they believe what do we believe is why people like it is

Because I guess I'm not super I write not for super intelligent

I mean, it's a systematic theology, but it's that a lot of people say it's it's quick reference

It breaks it down easy. And so there's something to be said about that mark, and maybe that's why

Some of the better books I enjoy are not from publishers But Let me you you were talking about the the filler of publishers and let me you know

It'd be a good time for me to talk since you're talking about filler Would be it'd be good time to talk about the filling that we have within pillows because if you get a good pillow like a my pillow you get a good filler and they are a sponsor of the show, so If you'd like to get yourself a a good night's sleep.

I I know that my pillow right now I just picked up a couple more of their my slippers because they're running a sale.

They have their slippers are $25 that may be a lot for some people but I Those those slippers last me a long time considered to the $10 or $15 ones

I get a Costco that last me six months, but but you know They have a sale on their slippers right now $25 a pair.

Their pillows are great They have the new 2 .0 pillow that that does checks that keeps the heat balanced and so if you want to Get yourself a good night's sleep and at the same time support this show go to my pillow comm and use the promo code

SFE that stands for striving for eternity It lets them know you heard about them here So that they will keep supporting the show and you'll also be able to get a good night of sleep

If you if you are struggling with sleep, I don't recommend Listening to Mark's sermons, but you can get any of mine and that is a good sleep aid

Mark's sermons won't work for that But if you do want to be studying the Bible like Mark does

I would recommend getting Lagos Bible software If you don't have that or you want to upgrade you can use our discount

That we have and with the striving trade discount Not only do you get same discount log Lagos provides, but you'll also get five free books from striving fraternity

So just go to Lagos comm slash SFE and you'll get that discount there

So those are some of our sponsors that we have here. We do appreciate that So mark a question that came up Could you say thought for thought is looking for concepts and patterns

Yeah, sure, I Don't know anybody that really that really reads the way

I read, right? So I was trying to explain it to John Harris and he was just saying

You know, that's that's kind of a brilliant way to read He says is that skim reading?

Is that speed reading? And I said, I don't know I've never taken a class or a course or learned how to do any of that stuff

I'm just I'm looking at a paragraph and then once I kind of understand what the paragraphs about I move on to the next paragraph

Just try to move quicker it's it's kind of like scamming is not scamming. Uh, what's steaming?

No, no When you are about ready to take a test, so you put a lot of cramming cram

It's like cramming for a test. I kind of do that with books You know unless it's a book that I really really want to read, you know and so then

I guess I'll go a little bit slower, but I Don't know do what works for you

I'm still trying to figure out what works for me mark Um, so some of the things we have

Melissa said this she said this was earlier abortion is not an option for rape

I'm speaking from experience I did not end up being pregnant But I was fully prepared to keep any baby that I that would have come as a situation

Mark, this is the biggest argument and and you talked about the emotional ism

This is probably the biggest argument people have for abortion is the rape argument Granted we know is a very small percentage of the abortions, but it is a very big on the emotional scale

What kind of argument can we have when people say what about rape? Yeah When somebody first asks this question,

I will respond back with why are you bringing up this subject? I'm just curious and If they give me some sort of a personal experience attached to that I Want to be a little bit slower to speak in my response to the person you know remember sometimes this objection comes up not to see if the baby has a heartbeat but to see if You have a heartbeat.

Do you care what just took place? And I'll go on record and say I do believe that sex offenders should be castrated and forced to be

To do hard labor, but usually it's the far left that are lenient Towards people that have committed these sort of crimes

So the argument is actually very simple. It's a very simple Answer to somebody who brings up this question and we have to remember that it's less than 1 % of those who get pregnant are a result of rape and incest

So I might just by a way of a filler ask them hey, would you be willing to outlaw abortion and all of the other cases and Say that abortion should be legal only in the cases of rape and incest

And now at that point they usually say no And I'll say well, then why bring it up? Why are you bringing up the specific case of rape and incest?

Because you're not interested in outlawing abortion at all

So you're the one that really doesn't care And I can give a very thoughtful answer to this question.

It's very simple, right? so there's an argument that Stand to Reason came up with which is called trotting out the toddler if The argumentation doesn't work after the child is born then it doesn't work before the child is born.

And what I mean by that is Let's suppose for a moment that there's a three -year -old child and the mother looks at the three -year -old child and says

You know, honey, you are a product of rape and as such I'm going to kill you

Would it ever be acceptable for the mother to kill her three -year -old child? Because her three -year -old child is the product of rape and the answer of course is no, but then we ask why not?

You say well because they are already in the world To which we respond back to what we're talking about with sled well, a

Preborn is already in the world just in a different location and we have to remember You never punish a child for the crime of the father.

No civilized society does that? We need harsher punishments for people who commit heinous crimes

In a woman at her most vulnerable time in the moments of rape or incest

She needs people rallying around her Supporting her, coming alongside of her, financially supporting her, giving her hope and help instead of helplessness and hopelessness

What has happened to our society when we've come along and said your only hope is to now add misery to your misery

Violence on top of the violence. Let's make you a murderer because somebody else has been a rapist inside of your life

That is the crazy situation that we live in You will always be a mother

If you have an abortion, you will always be a mother. You'll now just be the child of a dead baby

That you are responsible for So let's be careful not to mention, you know

Roe v. Wade that landmark case of January 23rd 1973

Norma McCorvey, she came along there in Texas and it actually raised all the way up to the

Supreme Court level because She said that she was raped This is why it raised all the way up to that level and then she later went on and said that she lied and she was

Never actually raped and Randy Alcorn inside of his book. Why pro -life? He had said that There are multiple people that will actually say and it's very well documented that they were

Pregnant due to rape because they're trying to save face Right that maybe it was a date rape something happened now that is not to say that All women are lying.

Obviously, that is not the case men can be great brutes and overcome women horrific ways

You know, I've been reading different cases about men who rape or have raped their wives because they're not willing to Give themselves over as 1st

Corinthians 7 encourages us to do so So now the husband feels like it's part of his right to be able to overtake his wife like that And that's that's very dangerous to be able to enter into that situation.

So I think the answer is actually very simple once we answer the question

Well, what is the pre -born and once we answer that it is a distinct unique individual created in the image of God worthy of intrinsic value

Then we cannot kill that child whether in the womb or outside the womb so Yeah, so so by the way just because if Brad Snow puts something up I want to Note it, but Brad Snow said slow is my only speed

I like that so We had

Just because we're getting to toward the top of the show Mark, I just a Facebook user. I don't know which one this was

And in one of the Facebook users was pastor Darren steed a regular here But the Facebook user says more

Andrew, thanks for bringing mark on exclamation point and so I just it is, you know mark you are a wealth of Wisdom, you know, it is always good having you on And so I do appreciate that Some of the other things that see so someone that was asking about the the

Alabama Person that I mentioned he was not a pastor. So it wasn't Alabama pastor

Paul Abbott So, sorry, but I I don't remember his name, but he was I know remember he he was not a pastor

John had said and this is back to the last week's show He said this early on but he said after listening to drew explain post -millennial ism.

I am even more premillennial So I guess we didn't convince him.

Oh well And real quick, you know, we haven't done this for for a while. But but KT says this she said

I flunked transitions striving fraternity transition to the gospel from my pillow or my slippers and so this is the spiritual transition game that I Used to play all the time on the rapper for podcast

Where someone would give me something and I have to transition to the gospel. So no preparation

I haven't thought this one through just saw this. So this is gonna be my attempt of transitioning from My pillow either their pillows or their slippers to the gospel

So one of the things that we would see with the my pillow, why do why do people like them so much?

It's because of the fact that over many years I've had my my pillow for over a decade now and it's just as firm as when

I when I ended up getting a new one for For someone else and I tested it is just as firm.

It stays just as solid and That's the thing that we don't see with other pillows with a lot of other pillows they they kind of break down and the reality is

We have things in our life that break down like our bodies and and our bodies breaking down kind of tells us something about our lives that we are going to die one day that we're going to face death and But we do have something that never breaks down and that's the very

Word of God and what the Word of God tells us is That even though our bodies are gonna break down More importantly our spirit is in is in a position where we're not in a right state with God Because we break his law.

We lie. We steal we we cheat We covet these things are crimes and gone sight and because he's infinitely holy it has an infinite consequence

But the Word of God never breaks down. It's eternal. It's solid It's something we could rest on because it is a firm foundation because it's author cannot lie

And therefore when it says that Jesus Christ was God Almighty who came to earth as a man never violating the law

He can be a substitute for us because he is a perfect man who never broke the law

But being an eternal God he can pay an eternal fine So because of who Jesus Christ is we can have the forgiveness of sin because what he did on that cross

He could be our substitute and so it's only in Jesus Christ We have to turn from trusting ourselves as a good person or trusting our good works

Turn and trust what Jesus Christ did on the cross. We can have eternal life. So from my pillow to the gospel.

There you go I don't know how any of you would have tried to do that, but Let's see

Brad snow says Get it get right with God before you lay down your head on your my pillow tonight.

There you go Brad Brad just covered in one sentence when it took me Let's know

So Andrew some of the other comments that are going on out there are giving you a way to transition as well

So they're saying on Christ the solid rock I stand So I've had other pillows besides the my pillow that were like solid rock

But not really because on Christ the solid rock I stand all other ground is sinking sand.

There's your transition Look folks this is this is why I play this game with people is because The hardest thing for people when it comes to evangelism is that transition from the natural world to the spiritual and That's people feel

Christians feel a lot more comfortable once it's in a spiritual realm if you can make that transition It's a lot easier.

And so I made a game of it. Why because as you see right here Three different ways of transitioning from my pillow to to the gospel.

Can you take any conversation and transition it to the gospel? Well, yes, you can now

I admit trying this game with Ray Comfort doesn't work. I've tried it you say so Ray Comfort Go, can you go from my pillow to the gospel

Ray Comfort's ways goes? Well speaking of my pillow. Have you considered yourself to be a good person?

For every one of them it doesn't matter what you say he says well speaking of that do you consider yourself to be a good person

But not all of us can be Ray Comfort So if you practice transitioning from the natural world to the spiritual world, you no longer have to pray

Lord Give me an opportunity to share the gospel You now will have the confidence that you can make every conversation about the gospel if you choose to Now the question is do you choose to what are you gonna do about that?

But it's it's just takes practice mark. Would you agree practice makes a permanent? You know, absolutely.

Listen do roleplay you know as much as you possibly can if you don't have somebody to Do some roleplay with well, then just do it by yourself.

I will regularly listen to panels or Q &A's or debates and before My side answers the question.

I will pause The video or the audio and I will answer the question as if I am on that panel or I will go through a slew of questions and then

I will pause and connect and try to look around and Answer the question as if I'm asking that being asked that question

So practice practice practice practice makes perfect. Most definitely

Yeah, and here's another one for you. Rob says my pit. My pillow is a good pillow. Are you a good person?

Yeah So, I mean, that's the thing with it. So You know, it's something where folks evangelism can be seems so scary to people

Jimmy you were out with us on the on the team this past week Did the guys at the beginning before we got started did they did like everyone seems scared to get up and on the box?

I mean no one had experience doing except you Yeah, I think there's well even with me. There's there's a fear

I mean, it doesn't matter how many times I've gotten on the boxes the fear still gets me we're going to evangelize tomorrow night already

I'm getting butterflies right like, you know We've made a plan to go out tomorrow night And I just think that you know what you were saying earlier about practice, right?

Yeah, roleplay the mirror roleplay with a friend, but still I've always gonna be an advocate for prayer

I've got a prayer that I pray on a daily basis Lead me to it and I'll do it open the door and I'll walk through it

Give me someone today that I might talk to about you and a lot of times he will he will just open a door

You know, I was uh, I do this thing I'm trying to get in shape I'm like somebody said earlier in the comments

I'm pear -shaped Yeah Me too, you know but I'm working on it right and I and I go out and work out at 430 in the morning with a group of People I hear that's camp gladiator stuff that I go to And I'm running around with this.

They partnered us up. I'm running around with the guy First time I've ever been partnered with him and where I told him hey, let's go this direction

And we're running down the street in the direction of the traffic and he seemed he sits there and says I hate running this way.

I always want to run against the traffic and I said why he said then if somebody jumps the curb I can see it coming and I said you think you're gonna see death coming.

I mean, is that what you're saying? I mean, it's an immediate opening and by 530 in the morning

I had I had at my first witness encounter that day because hey God opens doors and You just got to listen for it, right if they're gonna say something like that I'm gonna immediately step into that place.

You think you're gonna see death coming. Let's talk about hope, right? Hope beyond the afterlife hope beyond hope beyond the grave and so that you you know, it was a good conversation

He just in the end told me, you know, I don't see God the same. I don't see God as being judgmental I said well, you've broken the first commandment haven't you you've created a god -to -suit yourself?

and so in any case I Say pray

God's gonna open that door and just just listen for the opening. So that way when they when the doors open walk through Wow That is so great.

I mean, I love that. Absolutely. I think you're gonna see death coming. There's no guarantee. Is there?

There is none, right exactly But you know, why is that come out

Jimmy because the more you're out evangelize and more you're practicing that opportunity it's sometimes it catches you before you know it

I I used to work many years ago with a guy art good man art Goodman and So he like without even things who is

Jewish guy without even thinking he made the comedy goes I always like to go by my first initial I go why he goes because then

I'm a Goodman. I'm a good man And I said, oh so you consider yourself to be a good person.

I didn't even think about it. I was on work time I shouldn't like I tell people not to do that at work time

But it just it literally came out before I thought about it, you know, he just said I'm a good man

I wait. Oh, so you can yourself be a good person and it was just boom. We got into a gospel conversation And I it was

I wasn't prepared. I wasn't even thinking of doing it. It was I've been practicing so much That it just came out.

Yeah You know now getting on the box is something different you got to force me I need a push

But once you do it though man, once you get up on the box and you're obedient to what God's called you to Really?

Yeah, that's what we saw all weekend this past weekend ambassador Academy all the guys on our team and even

Anthony's team because we do It together. No one had experience getting on the box except for you And and yet what happened one after and but we we did not have any downtime on the box

There was no time where Anthony or I had to jump up to fill time It was constant why because people were getting excited in and it is something

Jimmy you've said this is beginning There is something to it when we watch our brothers get up there and and share the gospel what we can learn from them

But also it is so encouraging to the Christian to hear the gospel over and over and over again

If the gospel doesn't get you excited and you claim you're a Christian.

I Don't know maybe think about it Because it should You know

Okay, I just saw Brad Snow puts on up. Let's see Brad Snow saying Whatever you're filled with filled up with is what will come out.

There you go brilliance from Brad Brilliance from Brad and that's what Luke 6 says, right?

It's from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks So whatever you you ponder through meditating through then it comes out and Ecclesiastes kind of says the same thing

When it says a dream comes through much activity that whatever you put your mind in your meditating through is kind of what comes out in the midst of the dreams, so yeah, so as we as we wrap up, let me just give a

Quick note. There's a guy in the chat been doing a lot chatting Robbie Robbie my challenge to you

Thursday nights you can come in. I see given all the challenges to folks out there

But if you'd like to come in you can come in and ask any of the challenges, you know, maybe next week or son just you know go to Apologetics live comm scroll down to where you see the stream yard link click on that join us and we can have the

Conversation that you're that you're trying to have with so many people And challenging people there.

You can come on in and let's let's have the discussion to be it'd be a good discussion. So With that mark,

I really appreciate you coming in. I appreciate the film that you put together. What is it? I think this is gonna be good.

I think it's gonna be helpful powerful for folks I encourage people as I said earlier get your church behind this get your church to promote this film to You know get them to have it as something that they're you're gonna show at your church

You know get the cards so you could pass those out at high schools and colleges near you

So people are realizing the issues so that we can really deal with them

It'd be a great thing if we could just end this abortion issue once and for all Roe vs Wade is been turned over, but guess what?

It's still an issue because that was just the legal aspect Hearts and minds haven't been changed and I'm I pray that this film mark will do that change hearts and minds most importantly for the gospel, but secondarily for the abortion issue, so Kathy is saying here

Thank you. Mark will pray and watch So so there you go

All right, so with that, um, I Someone is throwing it out to you mark

Jason is saying Mark's gospel gospel presentation So we we usually I end the show with a gospel presentation

But maybe you could would you want to share that even though I kind of did it in a transition? But mark you want to end the show with a gospel presentation.

You may be specifically for Ravi here who's in in the chat Yeah, how long is the presentation as long as you want to go?

We'll go long I Like one too, but Yeah Listen, it's it's very simple, right?

The Bible says that man is dead in his sins and his trespasses That we're not just in darkness, but it says that we are

Darkness and the way to demonstrate that our heart is deceitful Industrially wicked of all things as we first look at the law of God.

We we examine the commandments of God and We do that to demonstrate that none of us have earned our way to heaven because most people when asked the question

You know if God were to ask you why should I lead you to heaven? What would you say or what do you think is gonna happen you when you die and they say?

Well, I think I'm gonna go to heaven. So well, why do you think you're gonna go to heaven? I said well, I think I'm gonna go to heaven Because maybe my good outweighs my bad as if God grades on a curve and he doesn't grade on a curve

Right that he grades on the cross and we'll get to that in just a moment But what as we look at the law of God, which is not the gospel, but it's a preamble to the gospel

We see that we are all as an unclean thing, right? Matthew Henry says that corruption runs inside of our blood

That our hearts aren't just deceitfully wicked above all things But if our hand was chopped off it would bleed sin.

It would bleed deceit We have all lied we've all stolen we've all had sexual unjust

Desires inside of us which makes us guilty of the breaking of the seventh commandment, which is adultery

But more importantly than all of those things we have not put God first We have not loved him with all of our heart soul mind and strength and because we have not honored loved and cherished

God We have fallen short of the glory of God to give him

The due due to his name We have not thanked him for our breath for our food for our family for sex for seafood for sunsets

And the Bible says that God is a just God He's a just judge and if God gives us our just Reward for breaking his commandments.

Well, then we will end up in hell. Think about it we within our

Society if we break civil laws or federal laws, we will pay a fine or we will do time

That would make sense well how much more the Bible says that the eyes of God are in every place keeping watch of the good as well as the evil every

Idle word a man speaks off to give an account thereof in the day of judgment All liars will have their part in the lake of fire says do not be deceived

For adulterers and fornicators and homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God If this be the truth if God's enemies are the ones who use his name in vain

Then we are in big trouble that it's literally hell to pay Well 2 ,000 years ago

God became a man in the person of Jesus Christ Jesus was supremely innocent. He was the judge of the universe and I'm just gonna put my this up here like this because there's a lot of noise.

I don't know where I'm hearing it Hold my microphone like this, so I don't hear all the commotion if you would just be patient with me on that But because we've broken

God's law we deserve to be punished in God's prison, which is a place called hell

God's not willing for that to happen So he sends his son Jesus to be born of a virgin who lived a perfect life.

He never lied. He never stole he always honored his parents and Everything emphatically he always did that which pleased his father and then

When he was unjustly condemned to die on that Roman cross, he didn't die for his own sins because he didn't have any sins

He paid the price for his people that will either come before him or after him people are saved in the

Old Testament the same Way, they're saved in the New Testament, which is looking to the Messiah John the

Baptist said behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world Not just covers our sins, but he removes our sins and as far as the

East is from the West He removes our sins and the consequences of our sin from us

But when Jesus died on that cross, he didn't just die to give us fire insurance So that we don't go to hell and go to heaven

But when Jesus died on the cross he died so that we can have access to have fellowship with God himself

See God is the omniscient one. He knew that we could not make our way to heaven and He didn't just have a plan

B to send his son Jesus No, it was always his plan to send Jesus Christ to be born of that virgin

So he dies on that cross and now whoever places their trust and their hope in him is saved

By the finished work of Jesus Christ alone and the Bible says that we are saved by grace through faith

Not of words so that no man should boast You're at the closest moment that closest point of receiving

God's grace mercy and forgiveness When you begin to realize that you cannot do anything, correct? I mean everything you do is vile in the sight of God Even your so -called good deeds is vile to him because whatever is not of faith is sin and without faith

That's impossible to please him So we must have faith which is granted to us so if there is the slightest glimpse of Resonation of what

I'm saying Then I would say come to your senses call out to God cry out to God to have mercy on you

Grace is getting what you don't deserve. Mercy is God holding back that which you do deserve and justice is getting exactly what you deserve

You Deserve to be punished, but the Bible says that God is not willing for any to perish

But that all come to repentance and that word repentance is the Greek word of metanoia

It literally means to change your mind There's a man named Greg Bonson who said it's thinking

God's thoughts after him God is not impressed with people who go to church or who memorize the

Bible or who lie on beds of nails The one thing that gets the attention of God For the life of the non -believer is for that person to turn to him in faith

And what is faith faith is simply believing that God is telling the truth That God is correct and Jesus said

I'm the way the truth in the life. No man comes to the father, but through me He said

I am the resurrection in the life. He who believes in me though. He dies he shall live

And then he asked this question I was very provocative he said do you believe this And that's the question that we ask people today.

Do you believe this? Are you ready to turn to him in faith? He's ready to receive you.

You don't need to accept him. You need to receive him. You don't make him Lord He is Lord You bow to him today or you will bow to him on that day and on that day that later day that great white throne

Judgment day. It'll be too late. Oh No, I won't I won't bow to Christ.

I won't confess him as Lord. Yes, you will You will every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is

Lord And it will bring glory to God the Father so you can either bow now or you will bow then reluctantly and Shamefully, and then you will hear those words depart from me you worker of iniquity.

I never knew you Well three days after Jesus died he rose again from the dead because it was impossible for the grave to hold back the creator of life

And there is no other true story where the hero dies for the villain

We are villains in the sight of God When Jesus died on that cross he paid a debt

He did not owe because we owed a debt we could never pay and now the call goes out that Declaration is sent forth if you repent and you trust in him, you will be forgiven

I'm not inviting Ravi or anybody else to get right with God. I am Commanding you to get right with God.

I Command you to come to your senses. I plead with you to get right with God today

Today is the day of salvation Today's the day to plan for your last day death will come knocking for you

Every day 150 ,000 people die come to your senses today so that when your day comes

You'll be ready for it And when Jesus rose again from the dead, he didn't just stay alive

Physically here though you rose again from the grave bodily He ascended into heaven and he sits at the right hand of the father and he ever lives to make intercession for his children

We are saved by grace we are kept by grace I Don't serve God to gain his acceptance

Because of what Christ did I am accepted and therefore I joyfully serve him. Listen, we've been Being interviewed here for the last two hours

There are so many more things that I can do I could be writing. I'd be spending time with my family

I could fill in the gap. Why am I here? it's because the Bible is true and accurate you are with an earshot of Hearing what

God did for you. God is so patient with you There's gonna come a time where God's patience is gonna be waxed thin and then you'll have to give that account.

I Would not want to be inside your shoes for all the gold in China Repent and believe the gospel repent believe the gospel unless you repent you will perish and I would not want to see that happen so we've broken

God's law Jesus paid the fine and the the call goes out come to him in faith and he will forgive you

And he will cleanse you Yeah, I mean that's that's that's good and you know

Ravi's a whole argument mark that he's been arguing is that somehow God is unjust that God is killing babies in the flood

The reality is if Ravi was listening to you rather than typing. He would have heard that God is just and Therefore he

God could properly take every human being the second They do that first sin and he'd be perfectly just in doing it because it's called justice is punishment

Yeah for breaking his laws. Yeah and listen and there's a difference Yes, did

God? kill Children through the flood. Yes. Well, my question for you

Ravi or anybody else is by what standard do you accuse God of wrongdoing? What objective standard you come up with?

We're just protoplasm making decisions from goo to you by way of the zoo if evolution is true

Then there is no right or wrong good or bad If evolution is true Then there's no difference between a man who kills his dog to feed his starving son or men who kills a son to feed his starving dog

Right. Usually people who raise this objection I will ask them how do you feel about abortion to which they typically will say well

I think that it's a woman's right to choose and I say choose to do what and They would say well choose to end the life of their child, so I get it

Okay, so a woman can choose to murder her offspring But God cannot choose to kill people that he has created and there's a big difference between murder and killing murder is always wrong that the murder is defined as the taking of innocent human life

God is the arbiter of life the creator of life He has never murdered anyone, but he has killed and he will kill

Everyone we are all on death row Some of us have nice big bright blue skies or ceilings nice good air -conditioning where we can roam around But all life begins with God and will end with God Right, so I would also challenge with this if it is wrong to kill

Why does Ravi or anybody else kill all sorts of living organisms all day long every time you're taking a breath

You are killing Microbes inside the air every time you walk across the grass you are killing something that is living inside the grass

You know every time you eat meat you are killing perhaps an animal or even if you're a vegetarian

There's no way around it. We are killing all day long We just rise it up to the level of human beings why can't

God Command the death sentence upon those whom he has created. So there's some hypocrisy that is happening here

Right, so women can choose to murder innocent human beings Ravi can choose to kill an animal if he eats our he can choose to kill a salad

We said well, it's not a sentient a sentient being we said well Why is that now the basis by which we decide what is right and wrong good or bad?

So there are all kinds of issues that people will have When they begin to put

God on trial and the first that we have to look at is what objective standard do we? accuse

God of wrongdoing Right, and so it's innate and the last example that I give with that is

Adolf Hitler Commanded the death sentence upon 10 million blacks Jews gypsies and Christians Our society said that their society was wrong

So we sent at the request of Winston Churchill's soldiers to try to prevent any more death from taking place

If society gets to dictate what is right and wrong Then why would we intervene when their society said that it is?

Okay. Remember Adolf Hitler was a fascist leader. He was not communist He was put into office

He did not take over office he was Strategically placed there now granted most people didn't know what he was doing

But our society said that their society was wrong. So we sent people to stop them. So now the question

Do we have a perfect society in order to say that their society is inferior to our society?

Which must be superior and the answer of course is no if our society is not

Necessarily the perfect society How do we even know that our society is superior to their society and what they're doing is wrong unless?

We have a conscience That God has given us Romans 2 which tells us

What is right and wrong? We don't need God to tell us what is right and wrong.

We that God has given that to everyone right? We don't He froze we just lost mark.

Yeah He is on his phone and he couldn't you he couldn't charge his battery because he was using the headphones

But I'll end with this to say this folks Ravi if you want to come in and make the argument and have the discussion we could do that next week.

We don't have any You know, we don't right now have anything lined up And so if you wanted to do that, you know, you could do that.

I Don't have you I think Jimmy I think that's for the noise. Yeah, Jimmy That's where the noise was coming from is you it was your mic window?

Okay, so but we're gonna we're gonna close out the show. So, um, you know, the thing is is that if You know if you want to come in Ravi we can give you a way a whole lot more time.

Let's have the discussion Let's talk about some of the things you're arguing for because you you made the point that Murder is the unjust killing

Well when God does something it's not unjust because so you just blew your argument away because God can't murder if by that definition because you cannot know justice apart from the nature of God and so Please Ravi.

Let's have that discussion. Come on in next week Next week we plan to do an open Q &A. So any of your questions you have

But Ravi if you want to come in and talk about the nature of God and unlawful killing be happy to have that discussion

I Hope that you're not like a keyboard warrior Just really strong behind the keyboard that you'd be willing to come up stand on your convictions and let's have the discussion

That would be really good Lastly the last thing I just want to let you folks know if you guys want to Support us.

We just got a new supporter and they're gonna get a choice We have three different DVDs and CDs that we have

For for our conferences so you get the conference CDs or DVDs We're giving away three a month for the first three people that support you can either get as we were talking about today

Presuppositional apologetics. This is the Jersey fire 2013 conference. This one has

Jason Lyle site and broom Kate and Eric Coven Paul Taylor all discussing the topic of presuppositional apologetics

NorCal fire 2013 getting Christianity, right is Got Matt slick myself and Tony Miyano talking with the the issue of getting

Christianity, right? Getting the Word of God right getting the Trinity, right the nature of man, right salvation, right addressing atheism, right?

So those are topics that are there and and I'll just mention I know, you know, we've done some shows on Tony and his church, but Tony still is, you know

Still solid when he deals with Scripture regardless of the churches he's going to and then the 2014 this is a double has two conferences

So this is on the family and so we got topics from Phil Johnson Emile's Wayne from Living Waters Phil Sessa from Fisher So I've just lost the name of his ministry shoot but he's with stop and think about podcast

Mark Spence is also on there car Kirby jr. And We had

Eric Coonan, so those are those are the ones you can choose from we'll get ahold of those of you who donated this month

Actually, I think this month is over But we did have one more to give away So what someone's gonna be getting that one if you want to donate and for next month

You could do that actually could just do it tonight We'll count it for next month if I see any anyone's come in tonight.

You got it for next month But you could you could feel free to help us that helps us to be able to do some of the stuff

We do to go to churches and do evangelism trainings or as we're just up in California doing a

Bible interpretation made easy seminar if you want some of those seminars Let us know if you'd like to have hearts for the lost which

Jimmy works for If you want to have hearts for the lost and striving fraternity come to your church do an evangelism training

We could do a dual training Friday night Saturday And then we'll go out onto the streets and train you up to do that and and and Jimmy It's really expensive to get you guys out, right?

I mean you guys are like six figures seven figures that sound like that. No No, no, there's no cost for us to come to your church.

We do it on our dime We'll come out to any church in the United States. Brian's trying to get us to get to Hawaii So there's a church out there in Hawaii that wants to to bring us.

We'll be happy to come out there again It's on our dime When you go out to hearts for the lost comm you can find a page to you know, sign up find out more more information

Brian nine who's the president of hearts for the lost will reach out to you and get more information See what we can do to come out and get and do it and do what we call a call a compelled conference

Which is a Saturday morning Get some talks get some learning and then you know have lunch with you guys and then go out and put it into practice wherever we go, so And Jimmy you can help me out with this right now

Brian nine drove out He's he's just north of me in a little you know place called,

New York City. He's he's in Times Square You know at least at the beginning of this show and and I'm trying to tell him he needs to drive down this way

To go through Philly to get home since he's got to go out that way and stop for some sushi

So if he doesn't do it, you know You know, we're gonna I think I think he's gonna have to make it up to us in Indianapolis and buy both of us sushi

What do you say if two of us agree on earth? Is that how that works? I wait I I agree with you. I mean, you know when we get to Indianapolis Well, we'll kind of strong -arm him and see if there's a place around there

So yeah, Indianapolis is a July 7th and 8th. You're gonna be doing that evening at Aletheia Church Yes in Indianapolis and and so then us you'll be

Friday night. We'll do Saturday morning It's a it's a group event. It's a it's a big one This is the first one we've had as a group thing striving for attorneys that night and then parts of the lost the next morning

I'm pretty excited about about working together with you and you on that. So looking forward to next weekend

I'm glad you're you're excited because I am scared because Brian gave me I'm trying to work out topics with Brian How do we do this, you know in two and a half hours?

He goes, can you do your full eight hour talk? No, not in two and a half hours. He's like figure out a way.

Okay, we'll do that So I'm gonna try to cram, you know, well, you know about eight hours of material into two and a half

We're gonna see how this works. I'm nervous So Yeah, but but if you're in the

Indianapolis area come check that out, that'll be really good Yeah, so so with that folks

Jimmy, thanks for coming in. It was it was great He's spending a week evangelizing with you. It was a lot of fun.

It was good having mark mark here We we have really got to Be spurred on in the gospel this past week at the

Ambassador Academy I encourage those of you who may want to think about it Do you remember when when does it open up because you mentioned it someone

I forget was it I first saw it in early January and that's when I was telling my telling my friend

Hey jump on that bandwagon real quick It seems to see the notification jump in there because it'll so it'll sell out quick Why I was kind of hoping that they do to like they used to do to a year used to six year they really yeah, they used to six a year and Yeah, and I it's a lot of work.

But yeah So so December January start looking on living waters. Check out the

Ambassador Academy. I usually try to put a post out You know if you guys want to be on my team just you know request that and but it is an exciting time

I I love it every year I come back so jazzed and and to follow it up in just two weeks with hearts for the lost

I'm gonna be so stoked for that. So I can't I can't wait For that so folks we appreciate you guys hope that you got a lot out of this hope it helped you

In your apologetics and with that as we say here strive to make today an eternal day For the glory of God and we'll see you next week