Agnostic Agrees With Christian

Apologia Utah

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Do you have any sort of faith background or spiritual belief or anything? Somewhat yeah,

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I grew up Catholic. Oh you did? I would, I don't identify as Catholic now.

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Okay. Yeah Yeah, I don't ascribe to any particular religions, but yeah have my own

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Do you think there is a God or? Yes, if defined as I don't think there's a man in the sky.

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I don't think there's Yeah, a sentient or omni potent omni

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Omniscient being up there. Oh, okay. Okay, but but I do think that we are a part of something greater

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How do you know that? How do I know that some that that there is no omnipotent or omniscient and I'm open to that being the case

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Like if that was the case, I'd be I would be willing to accept it. Okay, but there's not much

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Evidence pointing towards that being the truth. Okay for in my experience

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What about like, okay, so science observable evidence like they currently have they currently have no evidence that Even Atheist scientists will come out and say we have no real evidence that the

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Big Bang Theory actually occurred So like but but people believe that and so I would say that even in science

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When it's not observable in that sense, they have to act on faith So I think even being someone who ascribes to and I think science is not a bad thing

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I'm not some simpleton Christian who thinks it's not a good thing.

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But You know, I I think they have to operate on faith there as well. So everyone's kind of like They have a level level of uncertainty that they have to wrestle with right?

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So so I guess what I'm getting at is You know what tells us what's right and wrong what tells us what is truth and and false

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And I think that the mere fact that there's logic and reason and there's laws of conformity in the universe and and we know that things are gonna happen the way they happen because God has said it to be you don't just float up in the air because God has made a law of gravity that That you can expect, you know you will stay planted when you keep going on and riding your bike and so Those things, you know,

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I Understand that the Bible shows it to itself to be self -authenticating it is a standard and so in fact,

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I think in some capacity the Bible says that God has written his law upon all men's hearts and That's how people know rape is wrong and people know murder is wrong typically you'll even go to an island in Papua New Guinea and One of the chiefs

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Will you know will have something stolen from him and even in that isolated island?

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You know, the people will go a wrong has been done against him. Where do they get that? It wasn't societal environment it was the fact that I I know the

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Bible to say It's written upon your heart like you You you believe life is good because of that, you know

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Scientists would say That it's not written upon our hearts from a higher power.

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Okay, but Have been able now through the process of evolution and our our evolution as a species

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We have developed the capacity to In fact we need moral

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Discernment right ethical discernment and that is what has allowed us But again, they'll even those same scientists or Richard Dawkins or whoever will go but yeah, this stuff is immaterial it's immaterial so where did we get it and there is they'll argue for that societal agreement or something like that, but Again, where did that come from from the beginning that yeah, you know what

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I'm saying? So agreed Like so we do have evidence of the

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Big Bang but before predating the Big Bang and there's nothing It's a it's an unknown

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What the heck? What happened and that's yeah, and I agree

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Where I'm where I have questions is that there's always been this unknown. Mm -hmm and Where there's unknown we have inserted that must be

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God or a creator and as science has evolved intended We've like oh, well, this is why

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Rocks drop when we drop them like it's not God that's causing rocks to drop It's like oh, well, we know that when two massive objects are near each other there's a thing called gravity and that's what causes it and so like That unknown that we call

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God or which is where we insert God That's that's been changing over time as we discover more and I agree that there's a ton of uncertainty a

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Ton of unknown and I am open. I'm I really am open to like dude there might be God And I'm I'm like Fairly, I'm willing willing to accept that.

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It's just that I feel like if I gather everything Boys, how's he?

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Are you doing? Where are you going? Oh, yeah, everyone kind of departed.

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Yeah Yeah Yeah, okay, so I see what you're saying

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So I I would understand it to be that we couldn't even have an intelligent conversation apart from a

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Living God that the Bible says, you know the that God Is the beginning of knowing

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God is the beginning of knowledge. It's the beginning of wisdom And so any sort of cogent or intelligent conversation we can have is because there is a

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God who's made like I said reason logic Laws of uniformity in our in our universe and things like that.

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Like look look around bro I mean, how perfect is this that everything operates the way it does and I know

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I'm not It just blows my mind. I'm not trying to Make an argument with you.

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It's like the photosynthesis and and that after this winters over Seas will germinate things will start over.

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It's it's just it's too perfect. You know what I mean? But we can actually describe Exactly the processes that cause that Yeah, we're describing the processes but not the origin of that right true the origin of everything is unknown

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Yeah, totally. Yeah, and Maybe we'll always be unknown and I per I'm okay with that being unknown like we don't know

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And it could be God yeah God, um, I would say that I'm agnostic

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Okay, I without knowledge. Yeah Androgynous You're not male nor female

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Yep, well See it Can I share one last thing with you?

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This is it so it's nice to not align on our deepest beliefs but have it like whatever

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Well, man, you're the you're the first guy that just is willing to just you know, talk about it instead of like Capitulating back and forth and stuff and you're

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I appreciate how you're like, I'm multiple I'm teachable like if you show me different, you know, not a lot of people are like that and I I'm like that too

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But I see the scripture is my standard. Yeah, because I think we all operate on a standard

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We all have a standard and I think all the good and righteous things that we've made on our standards

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When we don't I just fully ascribe to the Bible whatever the Bible says, that's my standard I think all the righteous and good things that you ascribe to Rape is wrong.

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Murder is wrong Yeah, taking care of the poor, you know being being a good neighbor in the community.

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Those are all things that Atheists would just say, you know, there's blind pitiless indifference.

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We're just matter in motion. We're just clumps of cells Clashing together that rape doesn't matter

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Like all these guys will say that when they're taken down to the end of their argument You're like it doesn't matter we can go kill each other and it doesn't matter

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It's just then We're just fizzing You know cells and and things that are just fizzing against each other and that's what they'll say but I I think the

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Bible demonstrates this that We were made in the image and likeness of God that God has been there from all eternity

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It says in Psalm 90 It says before the mountains were brought forth or ever the earth was formed from everlasting from eternity into eternity

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There is God there is God that there's a one true God and he is decided upon himself

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He didn't need to create us. He's self -sufficient. He's self -existing He by creating us or this world.

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He didn't gain anything That was outside of himself that he couldn't have already had he was he was pleased in himself and likeness

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And so God created this world and everything that it said in Genesis 1 Is true it is true and it's not fable

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It's not myth that God ordered all things out of his own mouth as an omnibenevolent omni omnipotent

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God and and when he made man Man sinned against God man fell in the garden it says and it says all

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Says in Genesis 6 that all their thoughts are continually evil like but here's the thing. You're like, I'm not that bad of a guy

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I'm not that bad. Look at me. I'm riding a bike. I'm a good guy. I'm a nice guy with these guys. No doubt.

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No doubt But here's the thing we The standard with God because he is so holy is perfection

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Think about it. Think about a being that is so perfect and so holy that if you're thinking about God is

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Is this what are you what comes to mind because I agree like with what you're saying

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I'm like I agree with it, but I'm not thinking of a man up in the sky. No, I don't think of them a force and energy

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Whatever it is that is causing the motion of the planets and the growth of like whatever that initial spark is

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Whether that's well human. Okay, okay, or whether that's I don't see it

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I'm not thinking a man in the sky, right? So well, I mean the Bible demonstrates the

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Bible demonstrates this in Revelation 4 and 5. It says there's this incredible throne room and In the heavens and it says that from it is there's lightning and peals of thunder

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Like John in the Revelation is trying to describe what he sees and he's using human language and he can't even describe it

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He's like and there's like a sea of glass of emerald and he says God is not Physical he's spirit and he's invisible and you can't see him and somehow out of all this power

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And all these things and it says there's colors and there's like rainbow coming around it

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And he's just trying to use our own language to describe what he sees and it's blowing him away so that's

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God is omnipresent To in my belief and so, you know, he is everywhere but I of course deny like pantheism or anything like that, but but what

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I was getting to Lucas is that This God created us and we do evil things

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I mean, it doesn't matter if we give to goodwill or do this or that or help our grandma

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You know the the Ten Commandments show that You know, we lie we lie

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We steal we commit adultery Jesus even says if if you look after a woman with lust in your heart

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You've committed adultery with her in her heart the Bible talks about fornication and and in premarital sex and and murder and in all these things and of course

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Those aren't necessarily evil things Those are things That every human does

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That that are part of human nature that sin nature I would say sin nature

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So so so we fell and now we have this nature Lucas where we can't deal with it

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We're going man. I know what the Bible says, but I can't help But find a girlfriend and have sex with her and in and enjoy that sort of thing.

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That doesn't feel like a sin It feels like it needs to be kept in balance and But why?

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Why would there need to be balance? Because there needs to be balance with everything like you eat you eat

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So some sort of righteousness does need to be injected in some things All right, like and I wouldn't

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I would call it balance. Okay, like, you know, like eating a vegetable Eating or how about eating sugar is great

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We actually need a little bit of sugar for our body or eating a little bit of protein is good We need it but having that be your only source of your diet where you're eating 5 ,000 calories of sugar like that's too much and If you don't eat at all, that's too little or like water

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You drink a thimble of water a day. You're gonna die. You drink 16 gallons of water a day. You're gonna die

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There's like a natural balance. I see what you're saying. Yeah, everything there's a balance including

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The women or humans who you mate with or think about or Including our sexual desires

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Well, let me let me tell you again what I'm almost done to what the

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Bible says is it calls those things sin and it says In the book of James that he says if if you fail in one part of this you fail in the whole thing

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Because God's standard is perfection. He's so holy so it'd be like It'd be like Let me put it this way

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God then if he is righteous and good he then must punish what is evil.

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What is opposite of him? Let me put it this way though. So there there's a judge in a town and There's a trial before him and there's a man who has murdered and raped

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About ten women. Okay, and everyone's everyone's yeah, it's really messed up and everyone's waiting there and And he goes, you know what?

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You did some good things here though and you went to school and you honored your parents here and you did that So, you know what in the end after what how old are you 40?

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So you've just had a few years of really bad, but the most of your life is pretty good So, you know what

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I'm gonna grant mercy I'm gonna pardon you and in that small town and in that courtroom

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They'd have to bring in all the deputies because there'd be public outcry People would go nuts.

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This guy deserves Punishment in the highest degree and so with God it's even stronger

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It's like you take perfection and you put any blot next to it. He must punish it.

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But here's the here's what I'm getting at Here's the good news Yeah, so here's the good news is that God's standard is perfection and that's all he will accept and that's why he sent his one and only son the

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Bible says Jesus Christ who is also God from all eternity Stepped into his own creation.

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He condescended he came down and he stepped into his own creation He's fully

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God and fully man and he lived the life that we lived It says in Hebrews 4 that he was tempted in every way

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All the ways that you're tempted all the ways of lust and all the things that we want to do that are sinful

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He was tempted and it says yet. He was without sin He is perfect and you might have learned some of this from when you're a

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Catholic So he he lived that law that standard. Yeah in Perfection on the behalf of us.

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So then after that perfect life He willingly then went to the cross and it wasn't just a crucifixion man

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It just it wasn't just a Roman crucifixion on a cross The Bible says on that cross all the sins

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That people have committed that are that are God's children all all his children's sins that they've ever committed or ever will commit the

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Holy Wrath so like the the judge coming down with the gavel and anger and The punishment administered to that man who did those serial crimes

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That sort of thing with God all that wrath and all that judgment and all that penalty and an eternity in hell all that was

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Extinguished upon his son who was our representative on earth who lived the perfect life

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Then he died the death that we deserve So he he lived in a way we couldn't then he died in a way that was for us

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It says that he was a substitution So he literally did all that you Lucas could never do and on that cross.

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It was it was It says his wrath was satisfied now our iniquities are

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Blot out our sins are forgiven and they're remembered no more and we are promised in that He says now those who repent turn from their sins have faith and believe in me

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You know, we talked about faith. We have to have faith in science You know this or that but if those who have faith in what

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Jesus did taking the punishment of his people And living that perfect life and he died and he was buried and he rose again

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He literally lives and he ascended into heaven. It says and he rules and reigns from that throne and now he's not he's on the right hand of that throne of the of the of The crystals and sea of glass at Revelation I Try to describe to you.

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He sits in rules and reigns and he's waiting one day because the Bible says one day he's letting

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He's letting men and women Believe on him in this life and one day he's coming again

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To to to judge everyone and to give eternal life to those who believe in him and it's open to everyone

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It's not open not open to some people but these the gospel it says for is for everyone and so that's that's the call is

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You can have forgiveness of sins. You can have eternal life and because Again, James says this life is like a vapor, bro

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You could ride your bike down the street God forbid and get hit and get hit by a car and it's over It's over but the

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Bible says today is the day of salvation. He says repent believe Repent believe and And then you

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I'm about I agree with right man This is what's gonna happen

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And I'm not trying to be like a fringe crazy guy. I'm not like a weird whatever.

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I'm telling you that All I'm telling you is stuff from the Bible that that God has said these things.

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So the call the call is to Hear that gospel it's gospel means good news that there is a

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God and he created you in his image and that means you have worth to life and dignity and And he calls you to believe on his son and he'll give you everything it says he'll lavish upon you

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Eternal life and you will dwell with him forever And it's not like Mormonism where they say you're gonna be a god of your own planet and all that stuff

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It's I think I think in some element the Bible shows in the garden Adam was called to keep and tend the garden.

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He had to he had to he had to work it After the fall, it says it became hard to work it that there was thorns and thistles and stuff like that But I think one day when we're in eternity

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We're not going to be floating angel babies drinking martinis on clouds We're we're gonna be people where it says that he's making he's gonna make a renewed earth and we will dwell on a renewed

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Earth in perfection. Imagine no more death. No more decay. No more tears. No more anything.

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I mean we're gonna have Strawberry patches and we're gonna have orchards and we're gonna offer these things to God in in perfection

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You know, it's not just gonna be this like just disembodied spirits or whatever

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Hanging out. It's gonna be amazing and and again the object of our adoration in that is

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God that God is God created you and something occurred with man that was wrong but now he offers a remedy a solution that you you talked about nature you have this sin nature and you can't

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Deal with it. You can't get rid of it. I couldn't get rid of it But God forgives that and offers you salvation and in fact he reorients my you're thinking so I was

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Dude, I was getting drunk all the time. I neglected my wife and my new

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I had a little newborn Man, I was I was addicted to this addicted to that living a life, you know, and some people some people don't do that But they sin in other ways there's there's gossip

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There's all these things and again if the standard is perfection, how will how will you

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Lucas one day? stand before God you'll go I Have nothing to offer.

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I have nothing to show if you need perfection I don't have it and then that's when Christ steps in and goes

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I Paid for Lucas is fine He could never pay it, but I paid in full

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Sort of thing. Does that make sense man? Yeah, that's the gospel It does make sense and with most of what you're saying.