April 1, 2021 Show with Dr. Nathan Busenitz on “Long Before Luther”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living

on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday

on April Fool's Day, the 1st of April 2021.

And remember folks, if you're playing a prank on a friend, family member, or loved one, on April

Fool's Day, make sure that no one gets physically hurt, because as the old saying

goes, those kinds of things are only funny until somebody is seriously injured,

and then they're really hilarious.

No, I'm only kidding, only kidding.

This is a wonderful day for me, because I've been wanting to interview my guest for quite a

long time.

As soon as his book actually came into print, I think it was somewhere in the

neighborhood of two or three years ago, Long Before Luther, Tracing the Heart of

the Gospel from Christ to the Reformation.

That is a book by our guest today, Dr. Nathan Bucinitz, who is

Dean of Faculty and Associate Professor of Theology at the Master's Seminary,

the seminary in Sun Valley, California, established by John MacArthur of Grace to You

Ministries, and the pastor of Grace Community Church there in Sun Valley, California.

And this is an important subject to me, as many subjects are important to me that I

discuss in this program, obviously.

I would say that they're all important, but this has got an extra level of importance being a former Roman Catholic,

and somebody who has been personally involved in arranging live public

moderated debates with all sorts of

representatives of different religions and so on, but probably

primarily the debates that I have arranged over the years.

In fact, not probably, I'm certain that most of the debates that I've arranged over the years have been with

representatives of Reformation theology, those

such as Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, who has conducted most of the debates I've arranged,

and Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary is another.

Well, they have debated Roman Catholics, some of the very

finest that Rome has to offer in modern day apologetics, and this is a

very important subject to me because this is the issue that Rome claims

is their ballpark.

They believe that this is the ultimate proof that they are the true church, and they believe

falsely, I might add, that it is the Achilles heel of

Protestantism, and that is the history of the church and the

history of the gospel dating back to Jesus Christ.

But it's my honour and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Trumpet's Iron Radio, Dr.

Nathan Bucinitz.

Chris, thank you so much for letting me be on the program.

It's a delight to be here.

It is my pleasure, my brother, and first of all, I want to give my

listeners our email address right away.

It's chrisarnson at gmail .com if you have a question, especially if it involves

the contrast between Roman Catholicism and biblical Christianity,

or any subject involving the Protestant Reformation and the gospel, and the reformers in the gospel, and

the church fathers, and those that existed before the Reformation, which is

actually the primary theme of our subject today, which is the primary theme of

Dr. Bucinitz's book, Long Before Luther.

But our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at

gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live

outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Before we have you give your own personal testimony of salvation, which is

a tradition on Iron Troupe and Zion Radio whenever we have a first -time guest, tell us something

about the Master's Seminary, where you serve as the Dean of Faculty and Associate Professor of.

Theology.

Yeah, thank you for

celebrating.

The focus is in

the lives and

hearts of the men who train here and graduate.

And if you want to

investigate more

about the Master's

Seminary.

In Sun Valley, California, go to tms .edu.

That's tms for themasterseminary .edu.

Well, as I just mentioned before our little discussion here on the Master's

Seminary, it's a custom here whenever we have a first -time guest on Iron Troupe and

Zion Radio that they give a summary of their salvation testimony, including the religious

atmosphere in which they were raised, if any, and the providential circumstances that our Sovereign

Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them.

So let's hear your story.

It's always

a joy.

I grew up

in a

Christian home.

As a young child,

the implications

of the

gospel became clear

to me.

In high school,

I had

gone

to

private

Christian

high

school.

I

went into

college and

as Grace reached down and said,

I've got to tell us about how you wound up.

In what some who have the aspiration to be a

professor would view as a dream job, being a part of the

faculty at, of all places, the Master's Seminary, the seminary founded by John MacArthur.

How did that all happen?

So, my dad

went to

Grace Community Church

in 1977.

He was

one of the

professors at

the seminary.

And it was because I knew

the integrity

to serve

at

Grace Community

Church for

a number of years.

And then I began teaching through

the church in the

world

to advance the

gospel.

A little bit

of an answer to your question, how does somebody

like that, and

then going to a

place...

I've got to ask my very dear friend, Ron Glass, if he knew your

father.

I'm not 100 sure what years Ron was a professor at Talbot, but

he was a professor there.

And I'm fairly certain it would have been in the 1970s, because when I met Ron,

it was in the late 1980s when he was already the pastor at

that time of Wading River Baptist Church in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.

He has since retired and moved to South Carolina, Greenville, I believe.

But I've got to ask him about that because Ron actually is a very dear man and dear friend who

was instrumental in my radio program relaunching in

2015 after a four -year hiatus that we were on after the death of my wife.

And he and Wading River Baptist Church were faithful

financial supporters of this program.

We never would have been able to get off the ground and get launched without his support.

So I've got to ask him about that.

Yeah, I was just going to say that actually

they

graduated.

Great.

Well, as I already said at the outset of the program, this is a vital topic we are

discussing today, and it involves a vital book that

everyone should get their hands on, no matter what side of the Tiber

River you are swimming in, whether you are Protestant or

Roman Catholic, you've got to get a hold of this book that we are addressing today,

Long Before Luther.

And I think that, God willing, it

should make a very convincing argument to you about the rich

heritage of Reformational teaching even before the

Reformation, and that is something of great dispute between Roman Catholics and

Protestants.

What was the catalyst that led you to say, I've got to get this book into

print?

Well, it actually goes all the way back

to, I

think

it was

the year 2000, he

was at that time the president

of the

Evangelical

Theological

Society.

An

announcement

in the

comments

section.

And the two areas where Rome is most vociferous in opposing.

Oh, no question about

it.

No question

about it.

On the one hand, my

Ph .D.

dissertation

in tracing the anniversary of

the Reformation.

So, for me,

it all kind of brought

things.

And so you just clarified to me that it was four years I've been trying to get you on the show.

Yeah, I guess so.

And thank you again for the opportunity.

Oh, thank you for accepting.

In fact, I've got to interject here so that Josh Bice and Virgil Walker

don't get upset with me, that Nathan Bucinitz is one of the key speakers,

over 20 speakers, that will be featured at the upcoming

G3 conference.

The G3, if you're wondering what that stands for, it's Grace, Gospel, and

Glory.

I may have gotten them out of order, but those are the three words that they stand for, the three Gs.

And this is a conference that I have attended every year for the last three years.

This will be my fourth.

I'm so looking forward to it.

I'll be manning an exhibitor's booth for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio at this conference.

This conference has meant more to me and has more of an impact on

my radio program and my walk with Christ than any conference that I've ever attended.

And I'm not exaggerating, that is not hyperbole.

I urge you to take a train, plane, or automobile, however you can get there, parachuting down into Atlanta

to this conference.

And why don't you tell us a little bit, I don't know if you know your exact

subtitle that will be your theme of teaching and preaching

there, but the umbrella theme is Christ is Supreme Over All.

Do you know yet what.

Specifically you'll be speaking on?

Yeah, I don't know my specific topic yet, but I am really excited about the theme.

I'm excited about the theme not only from

Reformation

and

the

Puritans.

Amen, amen.

You're setting

up

the G3

conference

and the

theme, and I love that you can

make it there to Atlanta in October.

It would be a joy.

Yes, actually September 30th through October 2nd.

In fact, they have a pre -conference event,.

I believe, on the 29th of September.

Okay, yeah, great.

Thank you.

And just to give you an idea of some, it would take me so long to read the entire speaking roster that

we'd be out of time and the show would be over by the time I was finished, but speakers include

Stephen Lawson, a man who I believe is the greatest preacher alive on the planet Earth, Dr. Conrad M.

Bayway, a personal friend of mine since 1995 who is going to be returning as a guest to this program,

Paul Washer, John MacArthur, Anthony Methenia, who happens to be Paul

Washer's pastor, another extraordinary preacher that is largely

unknown to most Christians today, even probably most Reformed Christians, and

he is extraordinary.

Hensworth Jonas, he has preached at the church where I am a member and I've seen and heard him preach at the Banner

of Truth.

Michael Riccardi, who's going to be my guest in the not -so -distant future.

Justin Peters, who's been a guest here many times.

Joel Beakey, who's been a guest here many times.

Phil Johnson, who's actually going to be my guest again next Tuesday, the 6th

of April.

James White, my dear friend since 1995.

Bob Kauflin, who is also going to be on the show.

He's going to be on the show on May 19th, which is a Wednesday, and I could go on and on,

and this is an event that you don't want to miss.

Go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

We're going to return to our discussion on Long Before Luther with our guest Nathan Buth, and it's right

after these messages.

And remember, folks, if you have a question, send it to chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e

-n at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Nathan Bucinitz.

Hi, I'm Phil Johnson, host and executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur.

I hope you plan to join me and Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, for the G3

Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd.

The theme this year is Christ is supreme over all.

My friend Chris Arnzen and I will be joined by several of our other friends, including Vody Baucom, Justin

Peters, Daryl Bernard Harrison, Virgil Walker, and James White.

More than 20 other speakers will be joining us, and the lineup this year includes my pastor, John MacArthur.

For details, visit g3conference .com.

That's g3conference .com.

Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G3

2021.

This is.

Phil Johnson reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Our guest today for the full two hours, if you just tuned us in, is Dr. Nathan Bucinitz, and we

are addressing his book Long Before Luther.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

Obviously, at the heart of the divide between the Reformers and

Rome, and between Biblical Christians, basically, and

Roman Catholics that are loyal to the dogmas of Trent, the core issue

is the area of justification, and it is Rome's claim

that this idea of sola fide, justification by faith alone, is something

that was a 16th century novelty.

Nobody believed it before Luther, and in fact, Luther introduced,

in their opinion, that is Roman Catholic apologists, a number of things that are novel

into the church that were never before believed or practiced in the history of the church

until the 16th century.

But is justification by faith alone.

An invention or a recovery?

Yeah, but even in the 16th century,

the others made a similar claim, and

the Reformers,

and they,

and

so they grounded their defense,

primarily

their belief that

to make

their

defense, but

they didn't

stop

and in line with.

We do have a listener with a question, his name is Grady, and he is a very

faithful listener and financial supporter of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

He is from Asheboro, North Carolina, and Grady says, greetings brothers,

if I'm understanding you right, your book goes back in history further than Wycliffe and Huss.

Is this correct?

I find that astonishing and look.

Forward to getting a copy.

Yes, Grady, thank you so much, that's a great question.

The answer is yes, actually,

Clement of Rome, and

then including guys like Paul, there's

an appendix at the back, probably two dozen,

or we get to, or

even to the

Waldensians, it

gets up to right

around the

Waldensians and also the

subject.

Guess what?

You have just

won a

free copy of Long

Before.

Luther, Tracing the Heart of the Gospel from Christ to the Reformation, thanks to the generosity of our

friends at Moody Publishing, and specifically Janice Todd, who put that all

together, and also thanks to our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS

.com, who will actually be shipping the book out to you at no expense to

you or to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

So please, Grady, make sure we have your full mailing address so that you could get your copy of Long Before Luther

from CVBBS .com.

This area is probably most complicated

as far as my own interaction with Roman Catholics and

witnessing debates and arranging debates.

It's most complicated because of the prominence of the

place of baptism in the Roman Catholic Church.

Obviously every Christian should believe that baptism is vitally important,

but obviously Rome elevates it to a whole new level of it being required for

regeneration, which in some ways makes absolutely no sense because we are at the stage, and

of course those that gathered at the Council of Trent would never have believed what I'm about to

say and may have called for the execution of those modern Catholics, including the current Pope,

that believe that Muslims and non -Christian

Jews and Buddhists and Hindus and even some agnostics and atheists

will all inherit heaven if their lives are

lived according to the light they have been given.

But tell us about that fly in the ointment of baptism.

Was this something that, as Romans claimed, was universally believed by the Church as far back as we could

trace the extra biblical data.

Was it always believed to be salvific baptism?

Yeah, that's a great question, Chris.

So the issue of baptism,

what I'm looking at in the book

primarily is the focus

on, with

regard to

the issues where the

Lord

is our authority,

about

water

baptism

at the

moment

of conversion.

It symbolizes

clear that it's not the removal of dirt, but the

removal of water from your conscience, which is something that the Spirit, I

think, may be the clearest bible.

Oh yeah, that's a great one.

Yeah, now

as we get

into

Church history,

there is

some

confusion.

Should we be

baptized?

You

have the introduction, some

confusion

about what baptism accomplishes, and there were those in the

water baptism

stand,

and it's

actually critical,

and we should be,

that even

among some of the early

Christians,

that we are justified by grace

through faith.

So there is a theological Church

fathers with regard to

how they

saved.

You just

happened that

you asked about and tried to bring

regarding their understanding that we are justified by grace through.

We tried to make that work with

baptism.

We would look at that

and say, you guys

are being, here's one area.

Yes, it's interesting that Rome clings to the idea, as do

many even within our own circles of fellowship in the Reformed faith, but they,

Rome clings to infant baptism, and yet the earliest extra -biblical

document that we have to catechize Christians is the Didache, and infant baptism is

nowhere to be mentioned in that document.

Yeah, that's right.

The Didache, coming from the end of the first century, really

almost a book

tended to,

has a very

interesting idea

that it

was, makes it very clear that it

was baptism.

As the preferred mode of...

Well, one of the areas that is

claimed by Rome, as you even mentioned in the outset of the program,

that Rome claims is a 16th century

novelty, an invention, is sola scriptura, but isn't that how

Luther and the Reformers really brought clarity to the scriptures by

going back to what the scriptures taught and cutting through the inventions of

Rome?

It was Rome that were really the inventors of novel ideas throughout the

centuries before the Reformation and after, and

sola scriptura, even though Christians do not throw out all

tradition and extra -biblical writers and writings, but we believe that the scriptures are the

sole infallible authority over the church, doesn't that help to bring clarity to major

issues that divide the Reformers in Rome and the heirs of the.

Reformers today?

Yeah, absolutely.

So, you're right.

We do as Protestants, from our Latin

word,

greater authority than scripture.

That's where Mark 7,

that's where Jesus

contributes them

for doing

that, and the

Roman

Catholic Church

catechism, it presented as...

Well, we have to,.

Actually, we have to go to our midway break, and if you could pick up right where you left off, if you could make a note where you left off there, because we have to go to our midway

break, and if anybody would like to join us on the air, our

email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please be patient with us.

This is the longer than normal break.

Please be patient with us, and we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

My friend Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia, once

again for the G3 Conference.

This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd, on the theme,

Christ is supreme over all.

I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching, and

singing, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Conrad M. Bayway, Daryl Bernard Harrison, and

Virgil Walker.

For details, visit g3conference .com.

That's g3conference .com.

Chris Arnson and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at.

G321.

This is James White reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005.

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Before we return to our discussion on Long Before Luther with our guest Dr. Nathan Bucinitz

of the Master's Seminary, we just have a few important announcements to make.

First of all, please don't forget about the G3 conference where Dr. Bucinitz and over 20 other

speakers are featured on the roster.

That's Thursday the 30th of September through Saturday

the 2nd of October and that's in Atlanta, Georgia.

The roster is too long to mention right now but just a couple of those speakers are John MacArthur

and Stephen Lawson and Joel Beeky and as I mentioned Dr. Nathan

Bucinitz, our guest today.

Go to g3conference .com to register g3conference .com.

Also coming up as guests on this program, looking forward to Dr.

Carl Truman returning to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio on Monday.

He is going to be discussing his new book, The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self, Cultural

Amnesia, Expressive Individualism and the Road to Sexual Revolution.

That's Dr. Carl Truman this Monday on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio.

Then we have Phil Johnson of Grace TU Ministries joining us the very next day on the 6th

of April and we have Stephen Nichols is joining

us.

Stephen Nichols who is the president of Reformation Bible College in Sanford, Florida, the

college founded by the late R .C. Sproul.

Stephen Nichols is going to be joining us for the full two hours to address his new

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That's also the email address where you can our guest today Dr. Nathan Bucinitz

and once again we are addressing his vital book, very important book

that should be in the hands of anyone listening, everyone listening, whether you are protestant, roman catholic

or neither and you want to understand not only what the bible truly teaches about the

gospel but what history has to say about this important teaching even before the protestant

reformation long before luther tracing the heart of the gospel from christ to the reformation and again our email

address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com and one of the things

Nathan that is troubling about this day in age even though we

are delighted that roman catholics and protestants have the freedom

to interact and disagree in a respectful manner without fear of persecution

from the governing authorities at least in most places in the world obviously where christians are being persecuted

it's rarely because of a violation of roman catholic teaching or

belief except perhaps in central and south america there are probably places where that does happen

but we have a freedom and a liberty to be honest about these

differences and yet the evangelicalism of the 21st century is so

contaminated with a heretical level of ecumenism that would basically be

teaching that these matters and it might be even given by some of

these pastors preachers teachers scholars theologians that

they may even say that the differences are important but they wouldn't bring them to the level of

being of salvific importance even when it comes to the gospel but this is a tragedy.

Isn't it yeah chris you're right.

In it

a word

must

be

the

evangelical.

We

say

to

them

we

have

a

question

from

mike

in

monroe

new.

York can your guest elaborate on other roman catholics who sought reform

and saw the corruptions as did luther who did not follow him as far and in fact

stopped well short of reform even where.

Many were sympathetic to luther.

Yeah thank you.

That's a good question.

I a tree who with

her and the other reformers were saying but were not

willing to break with

country even

prior to that going more

critical

of the corruption including those like

desigree dutch humanist.

Yeah he debated the

bondage of the world.

You know he did.

Uh yes.

And uh he he definitely took the wrong side of that uh issue.

He was more semi -pelagian

and nine published folly in which he criticized

the roman catholic system for the evident corrupt.

And yet erasmus and others

follow luther unwitting

that we must come out and be separate from that which.

And yes there

were those who recognized the corruption and yet stop

free from that in.

But when it became obvious that that was not we

coined the term

evangelical or euangelion which means

into english

the purity of the god.

Well you also by the way mike make sure you give us your full mailing address in monroe new york

because you have also won a free copy of long before luther and give us your full mailing address so

cvbbs .com can ship that out to you.

That's cumberland valley bible book service cvbbs .com look for that in the

return address section of the package in the mail.

So we want to thank again cvbbs .com for shipping these books out.

And also again obviously we want to thank moody publishers for providing us with the books.

To begin with uh you address in your book

uh the church before now uh i know that calvin owed a great debt

to augustine and uh many people have viewed augustine as

basically the grandfather of calvinism if you will uh a man who is

very right on the money when it comes to soteriology but very very wrong on ecclesiology

as uh at least from the view of heirs of the protestant reformation.

But uh obviously we could put too much emphasis on augustine as if he was the

inventor of these.

Things as

well.

But he was

not was he primary as an

evangelical prophet that

when

they engage in these

the word

of god.

But

if we go

to

the

11th

how

if

we are saying

he says

that

we

are

justified.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

So when the reformers are saying hey we believe that

picture

that is

there.

We have arnie in

perry

county

uh

pennsylvania and he's asking something.

That actually has a lot of bearing on what you just said.

Uh how would you differentiate between sola scriptura

and solo scriptura where there are christians who believe that we should

reject all creeds and confessions not read commentaries not read the great

works of the reformers but only.

Read the bible and hear the teaching and preaching of our own

pastors.

Yeah uh that's

in my mind a clear to

say that you're going to

listen.

Not only that when we study

the the blind is that the

word of god.

Studying the

baby

out

with the

bat.

Say no we

can

learn from

church

history both the good and

the bad.

Evaluated.

Yeah you would have to go ahead.

I'm sorry i was just

going to.

Say you'd have to have a view of either yourself your pastor your denomination or what

have you that they or you are infallible and inerrant in order to

believe that we should reject everybody else except for your own uh

knowledge and understanding of scripture and your pastor's teaching and preaching.

I mean you would have to have some uh view of their inerrant infallibility.

Yeah

that's

exactly

right.

Zero

traditional

together

view.

They don't

want

church

and

uh.

By the way i hope that uh an anglican brother is listening who was a guest of mine recently uh

paul castellano because during an off -air conversation he misunderstood me and thought that i was

advocating solo scriptura which obviously is a confessional performed baptist

who has a high view of the great creeds and confessions of the church that would obviously be

incompatible with with somebody who believes in solo scriptura.

And uh in fact.

So if you are an advocate which you should be if you're a christian of sola scriptura that the

is our only uh final authority over the church that is infallible and inerrant.

The scriptures themselves teach the importance and vital and

essential place of teachers in the church and that there are qualifications that those

teachers must meet.

And therefore we should not throw away teachers in the church just because they're dead

or just because they're not necessarily in our own local congregation even if they're living in contemporary and they happen.

To be biblically

sound yeah

that's exactly

right into 22 c

as being

11.

To see if these we embrace.

Well you uh bring up another vital aspect of justification.

Uh in our uh discussion today you bring this up in your book a justification a

divine declaration.

And if you could please differentiate between what the

church historically has taught the biblically faithful church that is and what the scriptures

teach on that uh divine declaration on forensic justification.

I could compare it and contrast it to the the serious and damning

heresy that roman catholics very often especially those in

the apologetics arena will broad brush all of protestantism and evangelicalism

as those that teach cheap grace easy believism living like the devil

uh living any way you please until the day you die and you're still going to heaven because

you said a prayer when you were eight at bible camp uh went forward for an altar call when you

were 15 at a crusade.

Um you know these things are not the true teachings of the reformers.

They're not the true teachings of protestantism throughout history other than aberrant groups that

rose up later on like for instance in the 19th century with finney and so on.

But if you could.

Uh let us know what your thoughts are on

that.

Yeah.

Well that's an important uh

you know we think of the

reformers declaration

of righteousness meaning that it is a

declaration by god that the sinner is righteous

forensic declarer

holiness

of a

believer and

immediate

in

christ.

And

this

a new heart being

in that

belief

did

not just

pray a

prayer.

Walk an

aisle throw

a

pine

cone

in

the

fire

and

you're saved.

You've got fire.

A critical difference

by the

way.

I

made

a big

boo -boo

and i.

Forgot to uh allow you to pick up where you left off on the importance of sola

scriptura to clarify what the scriptures teach.

Uh when we came back from the midway break and i don't know if there was anything further you wanted to add to that but

um well i just think it's so important for.

Protestants and by

the way for the early church fathers

scripture he says you know if i see

something in an earlier writer that doesn't.

They must

say i want people to do the same

thing with my writings.

If they see something in my writings that don't be right in fact they

should disagree with me

through

a lens.

That church

our

country.

We

have

to go

to our final

break right now.

It's.

Going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks.

If you have a question send it immediately because rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least city and state of residence and your country of residence.

If you live outside the usa don't go away we'll be right back with nathan.

Business and long before luther after these messages from our fellowship.

Hello dear ones.

My name is justin peters and my friend chris arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio and

i are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the united states.

We will both be enjoying more fellowship together at the g3 conference in atlanta georgia thursday

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On the theme christ is supreme over all i'll be speaking there along with over

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For details visit g3 conference .com.

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Chris arnzen and me.

September 30th through october the 2nd at g3 2021.

This is justin peters reminding you that.

Christ is supreme over all.

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Welcome back and we have an anonymous listener with a question

for nathan business.

I was nearly persuaded by the arguments of roman catholic apologists and

thankfully to god i discovered a three -volume set by william webster

and david t king called holy scripture the ground and pillar of our faith

which contains the patristic evidence of the very things that you are talking about today the existence

of the reformation teachings on soteriology before the protestant reformation.

Have you read these books and do you also highly.

Recommend them as i do.

Uh yes so great question.

I do highly recommend that three volumes.

That volume two

it's authority of scripture the inerrancy of

scripture commitment.

So volume two is in

particular

and and actually william webster.

Bill webster's battleground washington.

Yeah i was going to say vancouver.

But you're right just north of vancouver.

Uh.

Battleground washington's written a number of

books.

He's written

another one

that's really good.

Excellent goes throughout a lot of these different and

find more at his.

He's got a lot of his articles and bill

webster's.

Amen.

In fact he's a dear friend uh going back to uh the early 1990s

and uh he and david king are going to be returning god willing to this program.

They've been interviewed uh both together and separately on a number of occasions.

You could also look uh up uh the church of rome at the bar of history at banner of truth dot org.

Who is the publisher of that particular work.

I've given away many copies of that book especially to roman catholics.

Um by the way anonymous you've also won a free copy of long before luther.

Make sure you give me your full name of course uh in an email off the air and

uh your full mailing address so that we can have cvbbs .com cumberland valley bible book service

ship that book out to you.

And we thank again moody publishers for their generosity.

Uh we in your book you basically going back to something that we were discussing

earlier.

We were talking about uh the patristic evidence of

reformation theology before augustine.

But you also talk about the church during and after.

What's the contrast there.

Yeah.

So we we worked through leaders

right after the apostles all the way up until

augustine early 5th

century.

What.

We try and show evidence among christian leaders the

allure

these.

And to justify we

find evidence in the

writings

of the

tree

augustine

we're

fighting

different.

And

then

well

folks

remember

you

can

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luther

tracing the

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Also don't forget about the g3 conference september 30th through october 2nd in atlanta georgia where dr

busenitz will be joined by 20 other speakers.

I'll be there with an iron sharpens iron radio exhibitors booth.

Go to g3 conference .com to register g3 conference .com.

I want to thank you so much dr busenitz for being such a superb guest.

I want to thank everybody who listened.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that jesus christ is a far greater savior than you

are a sinner.