How Do I Know if I Joined an Online Witch-Hunt?

All the big -name guys, they feel this pressure.

You can tell.

You just watch them.

They're like circus monkeys.

They'll, you know, something happens and they'll go out and, you know, make a statement, you know.

And it's like, you know, you know that they're, those guys are, um, you know what's motivating him.

And I don't trust anyone who feels the pressure to go out and, you know, categorically denounce, you know,

whatever sin is currently being discussed.

It's just like...

All right, Tim, the question for today's episode is, how do I tell if I've joined an online witch hunt?

Yeah, I mean, if, if you join like an actual witch hunt, then you're going to be in a situation

where, you know, typically like the pitchfork or the torch that you're holding uh, would be a dead giveaway.

But then...

Uh -huh. Yeah.

Typically.

Typically.

I mean, like typically like in a real witch, witch hunt, you know, you can just kind of look at what you're holding, right?

Um, and, you know, ask yourself if you're part of a crowd, but then, you know, honestly, like with online witch hunts,

it really is one of those things that, um, people can get caught up in, um,

online witch hunts pretty quickly, and they really have no idea like who they are in the story.

Because like there is, there is a sense in which like online interactions, they, um, they shelter you from reality in

a certain way, and they don't allow you to kind of see the broader picture in that as easily as kind of

as real life interactions.

But I mean, it's obviously true that, you know, people can do this, uh, in real life as well, but then there is something about online

interactions that um, definitely encourage a mob mentality, and then it shelters

you from the knowledge that you're even in the midst of a mob,.

And.

You know, adopting kind of the assumptions of a mob mentality in general.

So, it can be, it can be a lot more difficult to identify that you're actually in one in those ways for sure.

So, so I guess why don't we start with just what, what do we mean by internet

witch hunt?

Okay, I mean, it'd be helpful to kind of talk about a witch hunt in general, right?

So, so like if you think about the way a witch hunt actually works, like, um, you know, in a normal witch hunt, you have a bunch of people who

are shouting like kill the witch, kill the witch, kill the witch, right?

You know, so like they're, um, typically like witch hunts are all about like, like in the sense that we're using it, they're more,

they're about like generating a bunch of emotion in people, and getting people to like stir up strong emotions of like

hatred, revulsion, once you, once you identify like the, the villain or whatever.

So, once that villain is identified, then you have basically a crowd who feels some kind of obligation

to like shout their, uh, approval of what's happened, right?

So, once you get the crowd worked up, then everyone feels like this internal kind of pull to like, uh,

denounce the person in question, essentially.

And so, so like you can just imagine like a scenario where everyone's just, um, you know, kill the witch, kill the

witch, burner, right?

Witchcraft is bad, like protect your children, you know, protect your dogs, you know,

you know, all that.

So, like you have people who are basically, you've identified the target, and then, you know, like in your typical witch, witch trial,

there's no mechanism, um, like in the stereotypical kind of witch trial example, there's no

mechanism for the witch to demonstrate their innocence in this way.

Yeah.

So, so once the target's identified, right, there's no real mechanism for anyone to

clear this individual.

So, like in the classic kind of witch hunt scenario, you, you, what you do in order to figure out if they're a witch is you

tie them up and you throw them in a lake, right?

So, yeah, so naturally, you naturally, yeah.

So if you tie them up, you throw them in the lake if they float, right?

Like if they float, then they're obviously a witch because like they're tied up.

They shouldn't be able to just like float there, you know, so something shady's going on, but then if they drown, then it's like,

well, I guess they weren't a witch, right?

All right, we'll get them on the next one, guys.

But then, our bad, our bad on this one.

Yeah, so, but then the problem, then, you know, the problem actually becomes like if you're just like, the, once the

mob gets going, there's no one that can come along and like be reasonable with the crowd at that point, right?

So, I mean, you can imagine the scenario where they're like, you know, throw her in the lake, right?

Throw her in the lake.

And then you come up and you're just like, you know, you know, hello, fellow, you know, fellows, you know, point of order, right?

Like,.

So look,.

We throw her in the lake, she floats, she's a witch, but if she sinks, she's not, and that means she dies.

So, you know, is there a way that we can figure out if she's a witch that doesn't involve killing her if she

isn't, right?

I'm just putting it out there.

Now, you can imagine though, like in that kind of scenario, like what happens is once the mob is going, right?

Once the mob is going in like the real witch scenario, then they're going to look at the, like, there's not like a real

good mechanism for anyone to shout point of order here, right?

So, they're going to look at you and they're going to, you know, and this is, this happened to us in like many of our, you know, online

controversies or something like that where, you know, you like just as an outside observer who's not emotionally

invested in the situation, you can just look at what's happening and something's off about this, right?

So, I understand that like you're all, everyone's all worked up here, but can I ask a question about like,

what, like, are we thinking through what we're doing here, right?

Are we thinking through what we're saying here?

And if you ask any question along those lines, what's going to happen is like anyone who's caught up in the mob mentality, they're

going to look at you and they're going to be like, I don't understand where this question is coming from, right?

Yeah, like that's kind of the, like if they're trying to think charitably about you at all,

it's just like, I don't know what to make of what you just said there.

Like, what do you mean?

Like, is there a better way to determine if she's a witch or not?

Like, witches are bad.

Witches are bad.

I don't know if you knew that. I don't know.

Like, do you, you know, so it kind of starts out like that.

Like, you know, don't you realize like, what is going on here?

Like, what are you doing?

Like, are you supporting, are you, are you a witch supporter, you know?

What's going on, you know?

Are you a sympathizer?

Are you a witch sympathizer?

You know, it's like, well, no, I just, I'm trying to ask a question about like, is this the best way to figure out whether

or not they're a witch, right?

And it's like, well, what are you saying?

Like, you know, are you saying that witchcraft is okay?

You know, are you, are you trying to downplay it?

Right?

Are you, are you a witch sympathizer?

Are you, you know, and then like pretty soon it's like, well, you must be practicing witchcraft too, right?

Like, like, like you're a witch, you know, and it's like, well, no, hold on, hold on guys.

Easy, easy, easy.

I'm just trying to figure out if there's a better way to do this or if what we're doing is right, right?

Like here, and then it's just like, so the mob, like the issue is the mob can't handle.

Any kind of self -corrective in that way, right?

Well, you know, you know, I saw, I saw an example of this and, oh, what's the guy's name?

Mike Winger.

He, there's this controversy as if it, you could even call it a controversy right now where

someone in the SBC got together a list of churches in the SBC, who

are on the SBC directory right now who have female pastors at their church, which is

a direct violation of the Baptist Faith and Message 2000.

And so he puts the list out and everyone gets angry at him.

Everyone's coming after him.

And so Mike Winger, you know, and everyone's mad because it's like, hey, you doxxed a bunch of,.

Was that Mike Stone.

You mean?

Women.

Mike Stone, Mike Stone's the one who put out the list.

Mike Winger, Mike Winger put out a poll asking a, asking a question

basically saying, you know, would you if like Calvinists, would you feel

uncomfortable if a man, you know, if someone came along and put together a list of churches that

had Calvinist pastors along with like their, you know, church website or whatever.

And the response was like overwhelmingly no, I wouldn't be bothered by that, you know.

And he, he was, he was trying to see like, hey, are people up, you know, yeah, are

people being consistent in this category?

He wasn't necessarily coming after, even though he, you know, he obviously doesn't agree with Calvinism.

He stated I'm not like, this is not about Calvinism.

I'm just trying to use something, you know, that, that I know a large portion of people who interact with me do

believe in.

To see.

Where is the problem in all of this controversy?

And there are so many people even after he had said all that coming after him saying like, you're just trying to go after Calvinism.

You're just trying to go after Calvinism.

You're just trying to go after Calvinism.

It's like, like, look, man, I, I, I said right up front in the beginning.

This is not about Calvinism.

I'm not trying, this is not coming after Calvinism, you know.

But then he just had relentlessly these people -.

Jared.

That's, yeah, that's a good example of just like what I'm talking about.

So, once the mob's going, then you have, you know, someone like Mike Winger in that kind of scenario just saying point of

order, right?

Like, point of order.

Like, so, can we talk about what we're doing here, right?

And so, what happens though is once the mob's going, you can't have a reasonable discussion about

procedure, right?

So, and this, this happens like in every single kind of internet controversy that you can imagine.

Like, whether, like, whether you're talking about like, you know, the hands up, don't shoot, like all the racial stuff, right?

So, once the narrative gets going and the mob is going, then if you say, hey, can we wait to

see, like, can we wait a little bit, you know, on this?

Like, do we need to start burning down stores right now?

Can we, like, do we need to fire, you know, these police officers right now?

Do we, do we need to hang them?

One, dismantle society, or can we, can we have at least, like, one other step before that one?

Right, right, right.

So, you're thinking about it along those lines, like, they're, like, this, so, the impulse there is just to say that person, whoever that person

is, who's saying, hey, point of order, right?

Like, two, once the mob's going, they don't want to hear,.

Like, let's talk about it, right?

Yeah, they're hearing, like, a, oh, so, you think police should just kill all black people?

Right, right.

So, like, that's where it's, it's, like, immediately, it's just, like, well, no, I'm just trying to,

we have to figure out what the Bible says to do in this scenario, okay?

Can we talk about what the Bible says to do with this kind of scenario?

What, like, so, you know, if, you know, the police officer shot Michael Brown, that would be bad, right?

Like, I mean, like, if he, if he, if he was,.

If he had his hands up and he was saying, don't shoot, and he just pulled the trigger and executed him,

that would have been bad.

Did that happen, though?

Can we wait a little bit and figure out, like, what actually happened here?

You know, what does the Bible say about how we should, the first to plead their case seems right until another one comes along to examine them.

So, like, the issue is, once the mob is going, it doesn't tolerate any questions, right?

Right.

So, like, and that's the way witch hunts work.

So, once the mob's going, there's no, you can't you can't say point of order.

You can't say, hey, can we talk about this first?

Or, hey, are we being reasonable here?

Or do we know, like, all the facts here, right?

Or, you know, are we being consistent here, right?

So, or, you know, how does that relate to this other situation?

You can't say anything like that.

And if you do, like, what's going to happen is, it's like, like, you'll have the people who are, like, confused.

So, like, I don't know where you're going with this, right?

And that, that kind of response that I don't know where this is going with, I don't know where you're going with this kind of response.

That's a response that's basically just saying, hey, we're, like, like, the mob has decided we should be

killing the witch.

So, if you're trying to police the rules, I don't know which team you're on.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Like, so the issue at that point is, once the mob gets going, it's all about you being on one side or the other.

Instead of just saying, like, so there's no ability to just step in and say, hey, can we talk about what we're doing

first?

So,.

Like, in that way, then, you know, like, the way the witch hunt works is, you know, guy says point of order, right?

Like, is this the best way to handle it?

And then it's like, I don't know where you're going with this.

And then, well, you must be a witch sympathizer.

And, you know, maybe you even practice witchcraft, right?

Like,.

Only a witch would say that, right?

Are you about to turn my dog into a frog?

The only kind of person who would say, like, no, we shouldn't do this is a person who must be practicing black magic themself,

right?

You know, so then at that point, then it's just like, and then the mob turns on you, right?

So then it's like, kill the witch, you, right now, right?

So you're getting rounded up and you're, and it's just like, hey, I'm just asking a question here, right?

I'm just trying to talk about it.

Like, I'm trying to talk, like, what are we doing?

And so, like, you know, all that, like, that's just kind of, that's how witch hunts work in general.

And when you think about it, how it relates to just online interactions, once, like, typically,

like, just some ways, you know, that you're getting worked up into a witch hunt kind of mob

is, like, first, like, when one of those things happen,

you can kind of tell the people who are worked up into a frenzy,.

Like,.

More than others, because typically they're the ones who feel like they need to make these performative.

Statements,.

Like performative denunciations, right?

If that makes sense.

So, like, you take some of the racial issues, right?

You know,.

This is one of those things that Big Eva did, you know, all the Big Eva guys would do every single time there was a police shooting.

Like, the first thing they would say is, I condemn racism in all of its forms and all of its manifestations, right?

Yeah, let us be clear, you know, let us be clear that police brutality is always wrong

and there's no excuse for it.

It's anti -gospel, you know?

Yeah.

So help me.

God, here I stand, you know?

The stunning and brave -isms.

Right, right.

And so, but, like, if you feel, like, it's always kind of embarrassing to watch that kind of thing because it's,

like, that's the very point that's under dispute in the moment.

Like, the very point that's under dispute is what actually happened here, right?

Right.

So, like, is this an example of police brutality here?

Is this an example of targeting black people here?

Or is this an example of a narrative that's gotten spun out of control, to where, you know, you have

officers who are legitimately doing their job and, you know, now they're the ones who are the victims.

So who is the victim in this scenario?

And you're not really allowed to ask, right?

And so, like, now the individuals who are coming along, they feel like they need to make these

denunciations.

Like, they're the ones who, they're the ones who are basically, like, that's the online equivalent of the crowd shouting,

you know, witchcraft is bad, witchcraft is bad, witchcraft is bad, right?

We got to do something, right?

So all the, like, you, like, when you feel that need, like, when, like, a situation happens

to jump on the side and start making authoritative denunciations of certain principles, like, you

shouldn't trust yourself.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, you shouldn't trust your impulses in that kind of way because why are you feeling compelled to do that?

Like, that should just be obvious.

You don't have to come out and say it every single time.

Yeah, I mean, that's what's so bizarre about it.

Like, so this was so bizarre about it.

Like, you know, like if you, you know, some kind of, like, you know,

like with the Duggar kind of situation or something like that where all that comes out and you have,

like, why do you feel the need to get online and say rape is wrong in all of its forms, right?

Like, why do you, like, do you think that people don't think that you already think that?

It's kind of weird that you actually think that people think you're okay with it.

Yeah, I mean, you don't think that, like, you have a long track record of condemning that kind of thing that now you need

to do it just because the crowd is demanding that you make these statements.

And so, the kind of people who feel the need to make these kind of statements, they're the kind of people who are getting swept

along in this witch hunt kind of mob.

Mentality.

Out of, like, a need to please other people, right?

Right, right.

So, it's all about, like,.

And that's the whole thing about the witch hunt mob is once they set their eyes on the target, everyone's afraid

that those eyes are going to get turned on to them, right?

Sure, yeah.

Because they know how the procedure works.

So, you know how the procedure works.

Once the mob has identified the target, everyone has to approve and then point their finger and scream

condemnations about the topic in general and about this person, you know?

And so, you just have you feel this pressure.

You have to say it because you're scared if you don't, then they're going to come for you, right?

And then people will demand that you say things in those moments to where, like,

and this is just, you know, you just watch every internet controversy that happens and there's going to be people who are demanding

that, like, individuals make a statement, you know, very quickly, you know, once the mob has set on people.

And so, like, it's just good practice to not make those statements, to not say those things, to not bow down to that pressure,

to just ignore it.

Because you don't want to, you don't want to be in some kind of spot where you're just feeding, like, fire on a, you know,

throwing fuel on a fire that's just going to get out of control.

Like you, like, so it's better just to not say anything and not feel any need to say anything because it's all just

nonsense.

It's all garbage.

You're, you don't, like, don't, you know, obviously you're going to get cheap applause if you say that kind of

thing and you'll get a bunch of likes if you say that kind of thing.

But that's not what actually needs to happen.

What actually needs to happen is we need to obey God in these moments.

And we need to ask, what is He saying in these moments?

We need to make sure that we're, you know, honoring Him and not just getting swept up in a bunch of emotions.

So part of it's that, part of it's, like, you know, if you feel that you, if you feel this pressure and, I mean, all the big name guys, they

feel this pressure.

You can tell.

You just watch them.

They're like circus monkeys.

You know, something happens and they'll go out and, you know, make a statement, you know?

And it's like, you know, you know that they're, those guys are, you know what's motivating them.

And I don't trust anyone who feels the pressure to go out and, you know, categorically denounce, you know,

whatever sin is currently being discussed.

It's just like, I don't trust you.

You're being swept up in emotion right now.

Like, that isn't, you should be calm and clear -headed and reliable, you know, in that way.

So part of it's that, and part of it's like, you know, that you're not when instantaneously, like, people that you've trusted your whole

life, like, you instantaneously look on them with suspicion

if they say something that you don't quite understand.

Does that make sense?

Like, so if a person has like a long track record of, I mean, I saw these, like, in some of our recent controversies where,

you know, individuals will look at other people who, like, they're just swept up in this mob mentality.

And then it's just like, you know, are you one of them?

You know?

It's like, no, man, I'm just, I just like the post, you know?

That's all that happened, you know?

So, you know, once you start looking at people with suspicion and just jumping to the most uncharitable assumptions

imaginable.

And then demanding -.

Pete Yeah, totally unwilling to hear any question -.

Jared.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, where you're just like, you know, you're looking at, you know, the person like the Mike Winger in that kind of scenario, and it's just like, oh,

well, you're evil, you know?

You're a Calvinist hater and a woman lover, you know?

And it's just like, well, I mean, maybe he is, but I mean, I would like to hear him out first for sure, right?

I don't want to be just responding in an emotional frenzy here, you know?

So, I mean, I think everyone would just do well to remember what the Bible says.

The first to plead their case seems right until another one comes along to examine them, right?

It's foolish to, you know, the Bible says if man gives an answer before he hears, it's folly and shame.

And people could realize that, like, they really need to realize that in particular in internet discussions

that, you know, it's very easy to jump to a bunch of assumptions and, you know, crucify people and just get worked up.

And, you know, we ought to be able to have ability to, you know, talk about these things.

And there's a lot of topics that really just are not, that are off limits to discuss that, you

know, that are deeply, deeply, you know, like there's topics that, you

know, no one, like in the broader evangelical world will talk about because they know

that, you know, the mob would come after them.

And so, everyone makes their, you know, the same kind of performative statements along these lines.

But, you know, we would just do well to do everything we can to stay out of the witch hunt business.

Pete Okay, fair.

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