Jason Wallace and Tobias Riemenschneider Guests: The Watertown Arrests

Well, greetings welcome to the dividing line, my name is James White. We've got a lot to cover today. My goodness is the bright shirt

You know when you're wearing it, you don't you're not looking down at it and you don't see quite as much light reflecting off Sorry about that, but it does look a little bit like a

Coogee but it's much much cooler than a Coogee because it needs to be It'll be about 106 here in Phoenix and heading straight back up over 110.

We we finally broke the string though We we had 31 days 31 days of 110 and above and set a new record for 115 and above too and it's so weird because June just wasn't summer.

So we're just all catching up. Anyways, we've got two guests on the program. That's very unusual It's very unusual to have one guest but to have two guests is really really unusual and so I've got about half an hour with each guest and I may go a little bit longer than that to cover the arrests in Watertown, Wisconsin Ben Zeisloft and the

Republic sent the Republic sentinel Doing good job covering this you won't find this story anywhere else obviously because we don't have any

Journalists left in the United States at least in the main lamestream media They won't talk about these things but the arrests of young Christians protesting the sexual perversion of and perversity toward children in Wisconsin We may get an opportunity toward the end to look at that.

All right, but first I Was asked to look at this video a while ago and I was slow and getting to it because well

I've got a lot of stuff. I have to be reading and studying and stuff like that but a New video has been produced by ancient paths

TV called the failure of Eastern Orthodoxy Nothing like winning friends and influencing people with the titles of the videos the failure of Eastern Orthodoxy two hours and 16 minutes long and it was interesting because I Received a request from the seminary where I teach for resources on Eastern Orthodoxy just a few days before I finally got around to Not so much watching this

I Should have watched it. I listened to it That's how you know when you drive everywhere you have lots of time in the truck and that's how you catch up with stuff

That's the only way I can do it. I don't have anybody to do it for me I'll have a bunch of grad students to listen to stuff and give me summaries.

Believe you me. I have figured out who does that Whenever they misrepresent me because they're grad students didn't understand me

So I'd say how I do it and I listened to it and immediately realized it was gonna be a great great great great resource for people to have and so I asked if we might have the opportunity to have the the the brilliant scholar the

The the the man who who has only produced one clinker video

Brother Wallace from Now he's not with us via video and I don't understand that part because I as I just explained

Go ahead and bring our brother on rich Yes Jason I I wanted to just remind you that Your face is clearly seen

On all of the debates that we do in Salt Lake City Are you thinking people just don't make the connection or what is it?

I've been told I have a face for radio So well, so do I and you should have realized if you're on with me,

I make everybody look handsome. So There there you go. So anyway

You all just go find The last debate that the

Jeff Durbin and I did up at the University of Utah Freeze frame this the screen when the moderator is speaking and there there's

Jason and that way you just put it up on The screen and and you'll go. Okay fine. There you go.

So You've done videos, I mean ancient paths

Isn't that that's that's the the title you used for the TV show long long long ago, wasn't it?

Yeah. Yeah going back to 2006. Okay. All right, baby. And in fact,

I remember the first time I was on with you in that little TV studio studio type place that as you'd as I as I was sitting there and We were talking if you look past the camera

You saw another little studio type thing set up for some other guy that you

Am I am I right about that? Oh She was right across from me.

Yeah, Sean McCraney. Yeah. Yeah, Sean McCraney's a Little studio thing. He had was right across the way.

So You know that that's it. That seems like a long time ago. It really wasn't

I guess But it was sort of indicative of just how weird Salt Lake City Was and has become even weirder if if that's possible over the years as far as stuff goes so given that I get

You know, you've done stuff on homosexuality and obviously

Mormonism Most people don't know the vast majority people don't know That and if this has changed, please let me know but when we were up there only a few months ago the entirety of the

Salt Lake City City Council Claimed to be LGBTQ. Am I am I correct about that?

Not the entirety but the majority for the first time in their history. Okay, I thought it was the entirety So it's just the majority.

Okay, so there's still a few straight people around, huh? Okay. All right. Well Yeah Who would have

I remember when the homosexuals first showed up at general conference? that was in the late 90s and Boy, was that a an uncomfortable?

Confrontation back then But that but the the shopping center was still across the street from Southgate and all the rest that kind of stuff back then

Lot has changed in in Salt Lake City So I get dealing with the

LGBTQ stuff because that's happening I mean BYU and everything else like that and never ever saw that coming

I figured the only the only people who would be standing strong at the end We're gonna be the Mormons on that but so much for that idea but Eastern Orthodoxy, I mean, they're really

There aren't I Know there are Eastern Orthodox in Salt Lake City.

There's everything in Salt Lake City. I don't think there's a cult known to man That's not somewhere in Salt Lake City.

So What what made you? Want to spend the large amount of time?

I mean anybody knows producing a video of two hours and 16 minutes unless it's one of the videos where You've got people who just like to hear themselves talk sitting at their kitchen table the fan the background it's easy to do two hours and 16 minutes, but you did all sorts of graphics and and quoted all sorts of Eastern Orthodox sources this took some time to do what would be the motivation?

Honestly, it's a lot like Mormonism and we're watching a fair number of former Mormons embrace

Eastern Orthodoxy Dave Bartoszowicz has been very Public in promoting

Eastern Orthodoxy among former Mormons I've watched people You know, you and I have a mutual friend.

We've we've seen go Eastern Orthodox It's it's become the hip thing and it's really not that different from Mormonism.

It's it's a workspace religion It has a fake history It's it's

Catholicism with lots of mystery That's an interesting way of describing it see my introduction to Eastern Orthodoxy was was a little bit different I've had two major influences in looking at Eastern Orthodoxy I started out many many many moons ago literally

Right as the internet was was ramping up Back in the

BBS days the bulletin board system days open Bible echo and stuff like that somehow,

I don't remember exactly how I I Started having conversation with an

Eastern Orthodox fellow and it wasn't you know, so much of the conversation when it's public today people jump in and and Emotions get ramped up real fast and it just becomes a food fight really fast that that's not how this conversation went it was more private and This was an

Eastern Orthodox fellow that understood and had done reading In Reformed theology and so there was more of a more of a meaningful conversation going back and forth between us and He was one of those guys in as you know historically there was even a patriarch that after the

Reformation started reading Reformed theology and started embracing things like that and so he was someone who was much more open to that and Much less

Like what you would find in a lot of the quotations that were used in in the video from Orthodox sources and so he was there there seems to be there seemed at that time anyways to be a

Little bit more of a variation that was available. And then of course I started going in 2000 and I don't know if my first trip was in 2014

Or if I went once before that I think it was 2014 because that's when I think that's when the revolution took place but I started going to Kiev and The people that I was working with there in Ukraine were all

Evangelicals and of a pretty conservative stripe and so Orthodoxy was just considered to be sort of the poisonous

Atmosphere of nominalism there in Ukraine and I didn't see a whole lot of Meaningful interaction going on and Of course most of the

Orthodox there in Ukraine very very nominal very very cultural you know, you've got all the big beautiful churches and You've got all the icons and you've got

Energia and You go to those places to get your energy and that kind of it's more of a superstitious folk experience type stuff

Not a whole lot of give -and -take as far as theology and that kind of conversation goes and then you get here the

United States and you you get an Americanized version

Where instead of in Ukraine and Russia Where the liturgy is the primary?

Source of theology is like that once that gets translated here in the West It's sort of it seems to me that the

Orthodox apologists Just can't resist the temptation to be Become pretty much mere images of Roman Catholic apologists.

They're arguing against sola scriptura. They're arguing a Lot of the people in the East they just don't they don't do debates because they don't think in that way

It's it's it's foreign to their way of thought You get over here in United States There's nothing you can do about it

And so they end up making pretty much the same arguments that Rome does on a lot of the same issues

Just not so without the same emphasis that we have in Eastern Orthodoxy so you started off the

Well, actually you started off with a lengthy Clip From and the problem here was it was all in Russian and I'm driving so I I didn't get to see the translation, but my my recollection is

That had to do with this split that has taken place between the

Russians and Ukrainians and the war and we're really seeing that Orthodoxy is much more fractured

Than the external picture seems to present it to be and That politics have demonstrated that that fracture.

Is that sort of where that initial? video was going Actually, it's even worse than that.

It's it's patriarch Karel's telling the Russian nation that if someone dies in battle

That in fulfilling their duty. They are committing sacrifice They're doing a work of sacrifice and that there is assurance that if they if they die in sacrifice

Their sins will be washed away Yeah, that's not the first time that's been offered to folks

I seem to recall the Pope's doing that during the Crusades plenary indulgences to as long as you are wearing the sign of the cross then there you go, you you you have forgiveness of sins and things like that and So that same thing happened, but that's in that context it would be

Eastern Orthodox battling Eastern Orthodox It's it's a it's an internal conflict as far as that's concerned yes very much and Bartholomew's trying to aid the splitting off of the

Ukrainian Church from the Russia from from the Russian Patriarch and that's that's in the background ground as well, but I've had people

I've had Protestants. Tell me it was unfair to Play the clip from Kirill Because they say everyone knows he's political hack.

I've also had Eastern Orthodox tell me that there was nothing wrong with what he said But this works righteousness has never gone away.

It's it's it's it defines Everything from the late 4th century to today in Eastern Orthodoxy Yeah, well

One of the key issues of course is anthropology Archaeology the doctrine of sin this is a make you know my

My understanding has always been that that Eastern Orthodoxy is basically the traditional position of the seventh and eighth centuries fossilized it has been frozen in time and While there can be you know arguments over the calendar and Stuff like that the defining essence

What we would call the theology they would say the you know the apostolic tradition

It was frozen in time it can't it can't change without fundamentally altering the nature of The claims of Orthodoxy, but that the the traditional position that has been

Formalized fossilized Turned to stone is that of the 7th and 8th centuries.

It's not that of the apostolic period it is Post not only post

Nicea, it's post calcedon. It's really the essence of the second

Nicene Council That is just so problematic. There are so many issues with that that you you don't you dove into those as far as contradictory councils

I I tweeted out the video and Immediately people started coming down on me.

Thank you very much for that by the way I Appreciate I need all the friends

I can get and so when my friends actually help me to get more friends It's great to do that but I tweeted it out and They they started coming after me and the the reasoning of the argumentation

Really concerned me a great deal Because I mean well the very first responses was well that council that they mentioned that couldn't have been a a an ecumenical council because These are the things that are necessary for an ecumenical council, and I'm like You do realize that all that stuff and all those standards

Developed later right at the time. No one was thinking that way no one could have could have understood

What could be and what could not be a general or ecumenical council and stuff like that that that all came about at a much later time period and it's like they

They can't reason in a logical order Historically speaking it's like no.

This is this is what our tradition says and that's pretty much all there is to it

You you can't you can't change that you can't question that and I'm like but but historically it developed

Over time and and it's just it just doesn't doesn't seem to register with them at all I'm sure you've gotten a lot of just you've probably just gotten positive comments on the video, right?

Hardly I I've been calling I one of my favorite comments was now silence demon.

Yes. I saw that I saw that I saw that And You've you've gotten that from Mormons and things like that, but yeah, that was a new group to add to your your fan base, but Oh, yeah, but you have you tried to engage?

Have you found any that looked like it might be worth? trying to reason with I've been invited on Craig Trulia's podcast.

I'll probably take him up on that. Oh, I wanted a little bit about him before I did that. Yeah I've got lots of people keep posting over and over debate

Jay Dyer Yeah, I have I have no desire to debate Joe Jay Dyer.

Oh, I would love to see you do it You're the debater not me. I Prefer making videos.

Thank you. Yes. Yes That don't include your face evidently Yes, I did live

TV for over seven and a half years and I'm a painful introvert by nature And so it was really good

To get out from in front of a camera. Ah Okay. All right. Well, we'll let that one slide.

Yeah Brings up Jay Dyer I'm sort of like well, which which religion is he a part of today because he's he's been everywhere and That That may be something that will happen in the future, but I'll just be honest with you

I I started doubt that most Orthodox in Ukraine Would really be able to figure out where in the world the guy is coming from He's a good example in my opinion of what

I was talking about earlier. And that is once you get over here in the West The lang the orthodoxy in its native lands in its best forms

So not the not just the nominal form which is predominant

But in its in its best forms in the native lands doesn't use

Forensic Argumentation it doesn't think in those categories and That makes it really really really really hard for us to interface with those types of folks

That's not really what people are converting to here in the US I Have to wonder honestly if part of the popularity right now of the orthodox movement

Isn't a result of the fact that everybody recognizes that Francis Does not believe what his predecessors believe he's he's

Everybody can tell that You know if you if you're if you're longing for the smells and bells and you're longing for the ancient church standing in the midst of time stuff

Francis is sort of a clinker contradiction to that I Mean you can just tell he's modern he's

He's different From what has been in the past, and I really wonder how much that has to do with people who are looking for something different than Well you saw you saw the video didn't you of Sunday's Sermon Sunday's service at Saddleback.

Did you see it? No, I hadn't seen that yet. You haven't seen that yet Are you living are you living in a cave what

I mean come on What did I know but you still have the internet there

I Mean it was it was they're doing I guess this is popular and evangelicals.

I've never been in a church. It's ever done this But they're doing life in the movies

Movie Sunday something I don't know what you call it but where you do something based on some popular movie, and they're doing

Toy Story 4 and This is of course Rick Warren's old

Haunts and the new pastor and his wife and I saw somebody saying isn't isn't she

Warren's daughter? That's what somebody said so I mean now we're passing things down through the woman's line in the church.

That's great anyway The the new pastor and his wife come out dressed as Toy Story characters

I think he was Woody and she was little Bo Peep and So that that's what that's what

I'm seeing is is These people coming out and and greeting everybody Dressed as Woody and little

Bo Peep, and so I get why people look at that and go you know

There there might need to be something a little bit more reverent. You know I mean Maybe worship isn't all about making ourselves feel good so they start they start looking around for something and These churches offer themselves up but one of the things you dove into that I found interesting and I wanted to see if I can

Except I just realized Rich can can you can you do my screen?

I've I totally spaced Doing this you can see it.

All right. Let me make sure that you're getting the Sound Should be here, and I'm not

I hope that I hope that Jason can hear this but this is 16 minutes and 50 seconds into Your sermons aren't two hours and 16 minutes long are they

Jason not hardly not hard You've never you've never what's longest ever gone,

I might have gone 50 minutes one time, but really

I was Wow Wow, I Used to I used to I used to be good at limiting myself in that way and then once I got to apologia

I Sunday's Sunday sermon from Jeff was an hour six and that's pretty much spot -on for him

And I I now struggle to stay under an hour myself It's it's hard.

But anyway, so this is 16 minutes in Hopefully you'll be able to hear it.

If not, I'll fill you in but let's see if this is gonna gonna work for us It's okay.

It's sort of quiet here at the beginning Century monk John of Damascus Insisted icons weren't simply permissible, but absolutely necessary to the

Christian faith He said those who refused to venerate them weren't warring against images, but against Christ and his

Saints He was declared a heretic by the Council of Hyria in the year 754

But 33 years later the Second Council of Nicaea declared him a saint this link between Icon and gospel is greatly emphasized by st.

John of Damascus and his Three homilies on the holy icons are still the best patristic work

For anyone to read who wishes to enter into the meaning of the icon

John's three treatises on divine images became the basis for second Nicaea's demand for the veneration of icons

He pointed out that Abraham had bowed or offered proskynesis to the people of the land and Joseph's brothers had offered him proskynesis

John argued this was a fundamentally different reverence from Latreia, which is the worship of God alone

If Joseph's brothers bowed to him Surely we should also bow to icons if Christians were commanded to greet the

Saints with a holy kiss Surely we should also kiss the images of those Saints who are now in heaven the second

So, okay Now you continue on and talk about, you know, obviously the iconoclastic controversy

In church history is is very important and But most people in the

West really struggle to understand the centrality of icons in Eastern Orthodoxy Um What did what did you learn?

We're sort of running out of time, but what did you learn in in? Digging into this stuff. Were you surprised at just how central iconography is to not just Orthodox practice but Orthodox theology

Yeah, I mean, it's the very heart of the religion I mean, they don't have the formal systematics that you have in the

West and And you know, one of the things people will sometimes criticize them in terms of throwing a few quotes at them from church fathers, but They have over 130 citations in John of Damascus and they've got the

Second Nicene Council saying that this is the historic faith of the church in anathema to anyone who says otherwise and So a couple of proof texts really don't make much of an impact

What I did is I went back to the actual arguments that he made the citations, you know, there's only nine he makes before the

Council of Nicaea and six of them are demonstrable forgery

One is a misapplication goes completely contrary to what

Clement said earlier in the same work and the other two are ones for which we have no evidence prior to John of Damascus in the 8th century so there's no evidence before Nicaea of any veneration of icons and it just You but you start questioning the icon.

You're dealing with the very heart of Eastern Orthodoxy. Oh, yeah Yeah, and I had noticed and I don't know if you had seen it

But I had noticed last year a number of conversations that were taking place Between younger

Protestant apologists Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox on this very issue and on the a historical nature of the claims of Second Nicene Council How dependent they were upon?

forgeries stuff that then again without without the

Pseudo is a door into creedals and the donation of Constantine. You wouldn't have the papacy. So there's a lot of Modern theology in these groups that that stands in midair.

It has no foundation whatsoever as far as History is concerned, but you're dealing a lot with with forgeries and things like that and but still

I visited a an Orthodox Church in Kiev the last time

I was I was there and during a service and You've got to give them one thing.

The music is amazing it's really truly as they they build those churches to have just the most astonishing acoustics in the world and the the music is amazing and then what you're seeing though as Far as the experience is this is the place of Energia This is the place where divine energy is available

And the icons are Intimately connected with that as far as the it becomes so central to the experience we think about the you know having a biblical text open to us an application made to us on Sunday Jeff preached from Proverbs 11 1 and equal equal measures equal weights and Made application all across life to where we need to You know he pointed out that in many of my debates with Muslims.

I've obviously we need to have equal measures We can't we can't take one standard and apply it to the

New Testament a different standard and apply it to the Quran all sorts of application of that That's not the kind of thing you're getting in an

Orthodox service at all. It's that is so from their perspective pedantic it's it's it you've got mystery you've got the energies you've got

Totally different context That a lot of people just would struggle to even see what the connection to the between the two could possibly be

And the and the centrality of the icons for us is it's just one of those things We just we have to push back on and go where did this start and when you dig into it it?

is not apostolic by any stretch of the imagination and to claim that it is is

To fundamentally falsify any Meaningful historical element to the claims of the

Orthodox Church It's it's as bad as when Roman Catholic apologists say that all

Their dogmas are apostolic when they have identified when they've dogmatized for example the bodily assumption of Mary which

Nobody in the first 500 years of the Christian Church There's any evidence whatsoever believed in So when you say we're giving you apostolic tradition, and then you do that kind of stuff you're destroying your own foundation you're destroying your own credibility and You've put that in the movie so that makes you a bad mean

Scots person. Oh Definitely what one of the things I think is important to understand

James is that a lot of Theological liberals within Protestantism are finding the

East very attractive because They don't have to defend their liberalism against the conservatives they simply just you know dismiss us all as You know contrary to the ecumenical councils

It's become a smokescreen for a lot of guys. They start out liberal Southern Baptists They go

Episcopal then they go Anglican then they go Eastern Orthodox This is this is where a lot of attacks especially on the doctrines of grace

Thanks for that thing up. I'm sorry did you catch that my phone started doing strange things?

Yeah, go ahead and repeat it real quick anyway, a lot of the Guys that are not all of them of course, but many of the guys can you hear me?

It's it's it got you back It's it's self -muting

Riches riches and they're going my hands are nowhere near the controls. I'm I'm doing nothing But you were saying that a lot of these guys that is the path they seem to take a little bit little bit of a step at a time until they get to Eastern Orthodoxy or Roman Catholicism one of the two

But then you know you've got people who go between those two as well. So But I think

I think that theological liberalism is going to be attacking us far more from that direction in the future and far more challenges on the doctrines of grace

Because it's inherently anti -calvinistic Yeah, it is Yeah It makes really good camouflage for anti -calvinist

So, are you saying that you're expecting latent flowers to become Eastern Orthodox is that is that what you're actually predicting

I'm not a prophet or the son of a prophet His presentations of history are just about as accurate as theirs

I One of our videos we document him saying that Calvin had his stepdaughter beheaded.

Yes and I actually Got with a professor

University of Mississippi who's been in the archives he looked it up No, she was she and her lover.

I was for a bell tree Both of them were whipped. He was exiled. She was a citizen Three months later.

She was readmitted to communion, but latent flowers goes around portraying Calvinist as having

Executed her but she was readmitted without her head Because as long as they said it then that it has to be the case

Just just relax Layton. Just relax well, I Promise not to bring this up in our debate in Houston.

Okay, I promise not to do that Now if if Jason shows up, he may bring it up during the

Q &A. I don't know I have no control over anything like that. But anyway all right, so I'm looking at the

Thing here we're up to this says 15 ,000 views

I'm hoping we drove a few of those to you and I'm hoping this program will will bring more

Especially because there just isn't that much out there My question

I guess my closing question would be so if people watch this and They want

More information about for example the yearly councils and stuff Are you gonna send them?

What are you gonna? What are you gonna direct them to you're gonna direct them to shop? What what you know, because you obviously used some some some pretty in -depth resources here shop is a great resource for the councils in Terms of some of the stuff on asceticism.

There was a 19th century work called Vigilantius and his times which I forget who who wrote it.

It's its own archive org There are a lot of different resources the

The evidence is out there and I'm happy to point what people towards if they want to do more work on it

You know, we've tried to maintain the standard no one has anything to fear from the truth but liars I don't have the time to engage all the critics out there, but Nobody needs to be afraid of the church fathers church fathers weren't perfect.

No, but they definitely they definitely weren't Roman Catholics or Eastern Orthodox They were what they were and trying to make them fit into our modern categories is something

I've been Warning about for a long long time. Well, thank you for all the time that you put into Creating the failure of Eastern Orthodoxy.

It's on YouTube have you posted it anywhere else? No, that's it so far there's other places

I should let me know Well, yeah odyssey rumble there's a bunch of places you could throw it out there and In fact, you know, we this is on Twitter.

So Oh X. Sorry, whatever you're supposed to call it now But yeah, there's lots of places.

I think I think people need to need to see it and Utilize it. We gotta get those numbers up.

And so once again, thank you very very much for Putting all that time into it and for joining us on the program today

Thank you for all your kindnesses for nearly 25 years Indeed indeed and we'll get back up there again.

You just haven't yes haven't contacted me with Who you want Jeff and I to take on next so we'll see what you come up with for that one

It's been I'm sorry We'll try to get some antifreeze involved

Well, I drank the antifreeze you gave me so I could trust you So Anyways, thank you.

Jason. I appreciate it. God bless Thank you, bro. All right All right. So again the failure of Eastern Orthodoxy ancient paths

TV on YouTube highly recommend that you take the time to Watch that sit down take notes

We have all sorts of people always asking about resources on Eastern Orthodoxy. That's definitely be a go -to

In the future there. So I said we have two we

Have two guests on the program today, that was Jason Wallace Christ Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna, Utah.

Magna is over on the sort of Western side northwestern part of the

Salt Lake Valley Where they're all having lots of earthquakes just a few years ago actually

But now we we go Way way way far away all the way to Frankfurt, Germany, ah

And notice I can seen I can see brother Tobias now Even though he seems to be frozen

Is he is he actually there? Can he can you hear me Tobias? I can hear you

Can you hear me I can but I don't see any movement in the video. Oh Okay, is that it looks like I mean you look incredibly stern and German right now.

Oh, yeah Which you really can't do much about But it seems very dark because I guess it's about 1141 p .m.

Your time there. Yes, exactly. Okay. All right, you know, actually I've just fallen asleep.

So that's why I'm not moving So It really does seem like we have a still frame coming from you rich, do you have any idea what rich goes?

He rich doesn't know What you've got going on there, but I mean that'll work but It's not a bad shot.

Once you see it, you'll go. Okay It's a try to reconnect rich rich says it's very

Spurgeon esque So, I guess that's a I guess that's a good thing

I don't know. You might try turning your camera on and off or something I don't want to completely lose you because the the

Dialogue and and discussion is more important. I guess certainly than the video I mean people would much rather look at you than me.

You're a young man, and I'm I'm an old Scotsman but Rich what do you what do you what do you got there?

So Tobias, if you could just maybe turn I'll turn your video off here And if you could just turn it back on let's see what happens

Is what happens when you're dealing with stuff all the way across the world in this in this instance,

Frankfurt, Germany What's that? Now?

We've we lost connection well, let's hope that Tobias can jump back into the

Into the zoom Zoom link and I will give a little bit more of an introduction while hopefully that's being worked on on the other side of things

You've heard me make reference to pastor Tobias Riemenschneider from Frankfurt if you remember we talked about the

Frankfurt Declaration a number of months ago and Tobias was one of the primary

Authors and individuals who brought that about I have been teaching church history for the church there in Frankfurt for around three years now

I would say and We're we're just getting into the post -Nicene

Orthodoxy John Chrysostom area Gives you an idea of how slowly we have been we have been moving as far as that is concerned

But up and up through 2019 I got to visit the church there.

It started off with pastor Peter Schilt. I Was I heard something there?

We've got I'm using my mobile phone now. Oh, no. Oh, no

Okay. Well, there you go. So I Jason was only audio and I guess we're just gonna be stuck with me too bad

We didn't keep a screenshot of that because it looked really cool That was that was a cool screenshot.

Oh, well, I was just telling how I got connected up there I was stranded between flights in Frankfurt and I tweeted it out and Peter saw it and said hey,

I'm not far from the airport. Would you like to have lunch? And Came over and we had we had lunch at the airport and that led to the next time

I was flying through stopping there at at the church and That wasn't the time

That we had that really interesting fellow show up. I think that was the second time wasn't it?

You remember you remember who I'm talking about? Yes. Yes. Yeah, it was the second time Yeah, it was the second time because we were in a different we were in a different location

Yes, the second time we had a fellow man. He drove from another country. Didn't he?

Yeah, he came from the Netherlands. Yes Yes, just simply to try to straighten us out.

It was kind of yes Yeah, and I had to to gently take him outside Because he wouldn't leave yes.

Yes. Yeah, I made him leave. Yes you did Give him the left boot of fellowship

Yeah, it was that was an interesting experience but anyway We've got you back and I have to apologize immediately rich heard me going.

Oh, I can't believe I did that I left your book sitting on my kitchen counter when

I left today And I feel very badly about that because I was gonna show it up. I was gonna hold it up and do all this neat fun stuff

Yeah, no, no problem I brought it Well, you've got it, but we don't have a camera for you.

So I know But now people who hear you

Speaking are probably like wait a minute. Is this guy from America and he moved to Germany?

You're you're you're native -born, right? No, no most people tell me they like my

German dialect my German accent, so I'm not sure No, I'm I'm I'm I'm a native

German and only learned English in school And that didn't you know that that didn't help me too much.

You don't you don't learn too much at school. So Basically, I really began really learning

English But basically through YouTube when I was beginning to watch sermons and of course the dividing line

So I'm most of my listening to two sermons and Christian podcasts and so on. I Listened to it to American Stuff so right

There's not much available in German. So that's I think that my English improved a lot of doing that.

I've always Just been incredibly impressed with your ability in in speaking

English you of course were my translator I Think I'm pretty certain.

I I trade played the same trick on you That I always do when

I'm in Germany and I've told I've told you the story. I was when

I was preaching at the church in Berlin And it was a

German Russian church, so they had a service in Russian and then they had a service in German and I've mentioned before Russian just goes in one ear and out the other

I all the Slavic languages for me that nothing sticks I know bulga means

God that's about it That's all I have I've left but you and Peter and My friends in in Berlin have always been so patient with me slaughtering your native language

And in fact most Germans seemingly are Actually pleased when an

American at least tries to to speak German and You all you've all been kind to say that when

I actually speak it I've got a fairly decent accent. It's not as bad as most

Americans as far as that's true But I understand it when

I hear somebody else speaking it as long as they're not speaking overly rapidly and so it's really hard for Me to preach in English and have it translate into German because I understand what's being said by the translator and so when there's a little bit of a um

Interpretation shall we say? I hear it and it makes it really hard for me to Concentrate on the next phrase or next sentence or whatever else it might it might be and so when

I was in Berlin I made a reference to my bowtie and When he translated he said

Kravat Mmm, and I stopped and I said he shall finish gaza

Kravat. He's have a gaza fleagle And he legal.

Yeah, and he immediately without even thinking about it Translated the

German into English. Yes. Yes. It's just how the brain works Or if I if I'll quote

John one one in mom funk fire does for the dust for fire by God and God for dust work They'll just automatically without even thinking about just do the

English Even though you didn't need to because that was the whole reason I did the German so it's really fascinating how it works and when

I've preached there you've been my my translator and So I've just always been very very impressed with your with your

English translation and I should tell everybody That before I had the opportunity in 2017 to preach in the pulpit in in the castle church in Wittenberg I Wrote to you and Peter and I said these are the sections from Luther that I want to quote

Would you please help me and make sure that I've got the appropriate? Pronunciations of some of these words and stuff like that.

And I think I forget who it was whether I think it was Peter I don't remember what yes Yes, Peter read them out for me.

And so You know, I had them in the German but I'd had the opportunity of hearing a native speaker

Because there were there just some there are some terms You all just take a bunch of words and cram them all into one big long line and call it a new word.

Yes That can pronounce that can produce some pronunciation challenges along along the way

Yeah, right. But anyway, it's so before Covid I was visiting fairly regularly

In fact, there's a video out there of me preaching in one of my coogies with you translating

For me and so I I want to apologize if you've you've received any nasty comments

We thought well, maybe that's how they dress in America We're not that's that's how they dress in Australia, but actually they don't do it either nobody dresses that way as it's

That's there that's he just said he just spoke the truth it didn't even want to anyway, so so now obviously starting with 2020

I Was we started doing the church history around that same time as I recall

And teaching the church history class and that meant that we had a fair amount of communication communication going back and forth and you all faced a very different context than most

Americans did there were some places in the United States that had very severe lockdowns and and governmental interference and stuff like that here in Arizona at that time we had a

Republican governor and we were in a different situation and but you all were facing significantly stronger restrictions and Challenges than and we did and I know

I know for me that was a Real challenge to be thinking about what others were facing there in in Germany, so and you you

You guys had to make a decision There aren't it's not like here in the

United States where you've got reformed Baptist churches, you know around around the block

You all are in a small minority in in Germany Help our audience understand a little bit.

How small is the evangelical committed Bible believing community

In yes in Greater Germany Yeah, it's it's of course difficult to say very precisely but You know many many are still part of one of the two state churches

Roman Catholic Church or the Evangelical Church, that's how it what it's called here. It's basically the Lutheran Church State Church.

Yeah, that's the church that Luther founded And even that number has gone down significantly over the years a few years ago.

It dropped below 50 % So officially we are not yeah less than 50 % are

Christians anymore even nominal Christians, right and And real evangelical churches like in America.

We had real evangelical churches. It's 0 .2 % and those

Include some which are also very doubtful So if you narrow it down to really

Bible believing Christians, I doubt it will be more than 0 .1 %

Probably a lot less right, right. It's really only a very very small percentage and the the state

Lutheran Church these these churches Are actually really as far as I can

When I've traveled in Europe the state churches are Always a hindrance to gospel proclamation

Yes, they are they not only oppose sound theology and Especially any type of application to the gospel to the society as a whole but likewise

The people who are members those churches think hey, I've got my baptism. I've got my church certificate.

I'm right with God and Exactly exactly all as well. Yeah, if you want to reach them with the gospel maybe on the streets of Frankfurt they will always tell you well,

I I'm I don't need to hear about that. I'm a Christian They only have been baptized because they are officially part of member of one of the state churches

They only go to a church service maybe once a year on Christmas or so and that's it so They're they obviously are not really

Christians, but they believe they are they believe they're on their way to heaven and it's very difficult to reach them at all and And on the other hand

And what as you also mentioned that the the Lutheran state church, it's not about the gospel or the

Word of God They got come they went completely Well first they saw themselves as some

I know some social warriors, I guess and now they've gone completely woke There was just a a big they call it a church day so a church meeting of all of the

The Lutheran churches in Germany. They had a a black woman pastor or so Talking there saying that God is queer.

I saw that Yeah, yeah, I guess you yeah, I think that we've made yeah Managed to Twitter and so on and just it just two or three days ago

There was a in a in a beautiful old Lutheran Church a Gigantic rainbow flag was was in the entire church and they exhibited paintings of Well, I can't

I can't really explain what it was It was it was men having intercourse with which is which each other it was it was just gay pornography

Right, and that's what they exhibited in in a church. So Thanks be to God.

There was such a big backlash that they had to to close that Yeah, but that's what the

Lutheran Church is in Germany. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So it's not like you guys have a whole lot of support around you

No, and I know in Whatever small ways

I can I've certainly tried to be of all the support that I I can For a small ministry here in the

United States and and you know how much I love you guys and and Sort of feel like a part of the of the of the congregation there, but you guys it's hard for Americans Well, it's it's becoming less hard for Americans as we for example

Saw the arrest of some young men who were preaching the gospel outside a drag queen thing in Wisconsin That just took place

You know, I saw the picture of Peter With the with the

German cops around him And that was during a gay pride thing there in Frankfurt just last month, right?

Yes. Yeah, right just a few weeks ago. He was preaching on the streets of Frankfurt during the gay pride parade and And you know, you've got all the hatred from the repeat from the people of course but then the police came and took him away,

I think four or five policemen and Well, they they know that they are not allowed to stop him because we still have something like free speech

Yeah, but still they will tell you okay, we are not allowed to stop you by law But it would be really good.

You would go away now and then wouldn't return so they're actually telling you you have to go now

So yeah, you will be silenced And You know, I did the same thing the year before I also preached at the gay pride parade and and I had several brothers

Standing around me to protect me from the people who wanted to to attack me. So Yeah, it's

It's it's difficult. Yeah. Yeah, and you know, we're experiencing the same thing here in the

United States but there's still You know, there's a there's a backlash taking place because of what just happened and Because there's still more cultural

Leftovers of Christianity in the United States than there are yes now Refresh my memory.

I should know this. I think I know this but Frankfurt was on Which side of the of the wall?

It was West Germany, okay, it was West Germany, okay When I went to it's just such a stark difference

When I would teach in Berlin they were in the former East Berlin and it was just a one of the things they said was especially across that line there was just Secularism had been enforced for so long that it's still after all these years is still very much part of one of the things that you're dealing with within You've not only got

Germany, but you've got the EU as well. You've got two levels of Suppression going on there that that we don't yet have to deal with but give give the folks time they're working on it

So yes, yes you you had to start thinking you and and the whole congregation there had to really start thinking about As as all churches did but you more so how to respond to Government lockdown orders, you're not supposed to meet you're not supposed to worship.

You're not supposed to sing all this kind of stuff and these were things that When I was last there in 2019, we weren't thinking about that that this was not this was this was has not been forced upon us and now all of a sudden it has and It's been a journey for you

Yeah, it's been a challenge for you It seems that some of the things that have taken place over here have been of some assistance or guidance or help encouragement

I think the the stuff that I wrote for the Navy SEALs The stuff that I wrote for for Apologia Church I think you've said yes, you had access to that that stuff that I put together there and so absolutely while back

You and some others started working on What's called the Frankfurt Declaration?

So what was what was the origin of that and and what's the status of that today?

You've said that you've been surprised that at the positive Results of it.

So give us a little bit background on that and we'll talk about your book Yes, sure. So maybe starting at the beginning, you know, we we knew from the beginning that we had to resist

This this well this COVID regime when they told us, you know, just two days Before the first lockdown they told us.

Oh, no, there would never be a lockdown and the next day they tell you Okay lockdown effective in two days or so.

So we knew right from the beginning something isn't is wrong They are they are lying to us and such things didn't really didn't really add up.

We had to What one doctor one professor? Who were experts in this field of virology and epidemiology and so on and they they published videos on YouTube explaining things

They they were of course banned and silenced later on but so we had access to some good

Information and we know okay. We don't really buy this narrative and even if we did

We knew that we cannot just stop worshipping God So we began to resist immediately

We met we were not able to meet at the whole church because we don't have an own church building

So we had only rented buildings those were shut down. We couldn't enter them So we met in in smaller groups and in the houses how this of brothers and sisters

But then and then you know, so I basically knew from big from the beginning it would be wrong to just obey the state

We have to resist but I couldn't really explain that theologically so Romans 13 was throwing round thrown round a lot and so and and that that was where Things, you know brothers sat in Canada and America especially also when you talked about Romans 13 that was extremely helpful in in also forming my

Theology and really state church relationships and when to resist and when to submit and so on And then

I was approached by a brother from from London and he had reached out to several pastors from basically all over the world the

Americas and Africa Europe and he wanted us to Well to to put together a declaration basically a global declaration regarding Kovac what was happening there?

and so we started a meeting over zoom and It became apparent very quickly that we were moving in different directions.

So so three of us split up and Formed a new group and we continued the work on the declaration in the form.

We wanted it to be we imagined it to be and So and when finally this this work was completed you know, we send it to you and to some other brothers and ask for your for your thoughts and your input and Yeah, and then, you know to be honest

I thought well Maybe a hundred people may maybe we'll find it

And and who are who of the big guys should sign it because no one knows me No one knows actually also the other two guys who worked with me on this

Stephen Lloyd from from France and Paul Hartwig from South Africa. So we are not famous people

So why should anyone give give anything? You know who cares about what we write?

And then something amazing happened we started sending this declaration to some people and you also helped in that right spreading it sending it to others and almost everyone with only very few exceptions that came back very positive and said well

I want to sign this and So I think you were the first of the big names

Who said I will sign it and then there was body welcome and Joe boot and Doug Wilson and James codes and finally, even

John MacArthur which Which seemed to be very unlikely that he would also join this declaration, but he did

So it was obvious that God was was doing something here And we would have never thought that this declaration would get so much positive

Yeah attention Yeah, that's really exciting it and people can still Go online and read it and sign it and stuff like that.

What's what's the what's the website? Yes, Frankfurt declaration comm Declaration comm

Frankfurt declaration comm people want to go see that I just looked up on on Amazon Ezra press is the

Publisher of your new book came out May 15th according to this anyways Resisting tyranny a

Christian response to government overreach now now the funny thing is Was it actually

Published in German first or English first. Yes, it was published in German first. Okay, and then

Joe boots and Ezra press were so so kind to To also publish it in English.

Okay Did you do the translation I? Did yes. Yeah. Well, that's a lot of work.

That's a lot of work. Yeah There's no two ways about it So it's available in at least two languages

Resisting tyranny give folks an idea of what they'd be looking at if they

Took the time to to to read through it Yeah, sure. So The book is basically a compilation of things.

I wrote during kovat It also includes the Frankfurt declaration, but this was not the only and not even the first Declaration I I draw up.

So I I first published published a declaration in German for the

German well for the German context, but actually it's It's not limited to Germany because we all had the same issues basically globally

There is a there is my sermon on Romans 13. There is a letter I wrote to the chance that the

German chancellor and the German president and all of the members of Parliament When they wanted to enforce vaccination when they wanted to pass a law that would have made the vaccine mandatory for everyone

I wrote a letter which was signed by I'm not sure I guess around a hundred thirty pastors in Germany But and other things are in there as well also an article by John MacArthur why

I signed the Frankfurt Declaration Another article by Jacob Reom the foreword actually was written by Dr.

James White. That's a very good forward and yeah, it's a compilation of of the the things

I did during kovat and I hope that basically that this book will accomplish three things

I hope it will be a witness to what happened during kovat because I realized very quickly that people were

We're beginning to forget. Oh, yeah, what had happened? It's amazing Yeah, it was amazing. Exactly and even you know,

I asked my My brother -in -law he's from England to also check the translation and he came back to me and telling me

Wow That was really that was really something during Kobe. It was really really evil.

I had almost already forgotten everything So I hope it is a witness to all the injustice that happened during that time also to all

All the anxiety and fear we had And and then I hope it it really provides some good theology

Regarding state church relationships regarding the question when to submit when to resist and and and and this will hopefully be be of use for not not just for for us that lift recover it, but hopefully also for For for the years to come and yeah, the third thing is exactly that I want

I would hope that this book would encourage people which can encourage brothers and sisters to be courageous and faithful when the next big thing happens and Well, the next

I think the next big thing is the next big things already happening And you all are suffering from it more than we are here.

Yes so far in the United States. It's the it's the climate scam Exactly, that's that's the next and and and the amazing thing is

Everyone knew this. I mean Michael Fallon was telling me at the beginning of Kobe. I said, yeah once this is over the next thing's back to climate

It's like wait a minute. We're still in the middle of this, but he was right that that that's that's that's where they're going

And and and you guys are paying absolutely through the nose for for energy now in in Germany.

It's astonishing Exactly, you know just today I read that that the German weather agency they they said

That this was the the hottest July in a hundred years and everyone is just going here that this

July It was really cold and rainy for at least three weeks now. So yeah,

I don't know what's going on But everyone should be able to tell that that's hardly the case.

Yeah, I don't know what's going on there It's all very Unfortunately, we you can't if it's if a leftist media person if their lips are moving they're lying

Just how you have to go there so resisting tyranny is available a

Christian response to government overreach Tobias Riemenschneider Wow Amazon has it listed by Tobias Riemenschneider author

John MacArthur author James White forward With John MacArthur Yes, that's available on on Amazon, of course, no one can spell in the

United States no one can spell Riemenschneider Very difficult, it's just not it's not possible, but put something in there and let

Amazon figure it out from there They'll they'll come they'll come around to it eventually. So well, congratulations.

I'm putting the book out Thank you so much. I would have had you on while I was traveling but rich says it's actually easy to do but I haven't done it yet and But you know, you know what would have happened if we had tried we at least would have been able to see you

Exactly, so we have to repeat that so we can see see me at least yes.

Yes next time We'll have to make sure that the camera is actually gonna be Functioning and you're not keeping your family up till all hours because it's after midnight there now

But like I said, that's right. I I've gotten texts from you When I I did the time and I'm like, what are you doing up at this time of night?

This is Don't tell anyone Well, what I'm working late, you know

Yeah, what I'll get is I'll get these these signal messages and I can always tell when everybody else in the house is asleep

Because I have to put it up to my ear and it's it's Tobias whispering. Hello, brother.

I just wanted to say Yes, that's right, yeah,

I Think sleep is overrated I just don't do it

Well, I tell people vacations and stuff like that are overrated. We're gonna have all of eternity to rest

I get that but sleep. I'm sorry sleep is God designed that because you don't do that and eventually the body just completely falls apart, so Anyways, yes, you're right.

You're right. Anyhow You are older than I about 20 years and you're much fitter than I so I don't know about that I mean,

I might be able to outride you on a bike, but that's just muscle memory I don't know about all the rest of it anymore.

I'm definitely getting up there. But but anyways, I I'm really hoping

That someday you will get the opportunity of coming here to the United States and visiting.

I hope to us Yes, and that way we'll get to see each other again because I really enjoyed our times there

I'm thinking about I think the last place you all put me up at Had this really neat path that I could run around Do you remember when that place was?

Yes, I do. It was a very nice hotel, right? And yeah, it was it was really nice Spot and it was very and I remember sending you a picture.

I think it's that to my family, too I was waiting to get picked up and There was a sign out in the in the parking lot and again, it was the it was the

German penchant for taking numerous words and just Cramming them into one big long.

I mean, I don't know how many letters there were but I think it just simply meant parking lot

We like to make things complicated, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. There is there is that element of it?

We've had some great times some great lunches and dinners and and I've gotten to Actually tell you about German history about some some aspects of German history that they don't talk about in Germany anymore

Which is really really scary and strange, but but anyways Always love my time there and I hope hope you get a chance to visit here in the u .s

At some point because yeah, they're not going to be building a bridge Across to to Europe anytime soon for your

RV for my RV Yeah, that's that really wouldn't work out too well, and I'm not rowing riches in the other room going like this

I'm like, no, I'm not gonna row across the pond as they say so so resisting tyranny

Tobias Riemenschneider pick it up at at Amazon and Make it a part of your church library do stuff like that.

Tobias. Thank you very much for staying up late and Now now get get sleep you say it's overrated, but I think it's very very important So go go get some

I will I will and thank you so much for having me on Well, we love you, brother, and we'll be praying for you all and your work there in God bless

Love you. God bless. Thank you. Bye. Bye Avita's and I should have said I Love seeing on Facebook.

I follow the the church there in Frankfurt on Facebook and I love seeing the pictures of their guys out in the streets of Frankfurt evangelizing as Weird as that is in the

United States now, it's a whole lot weirder in Europe It really really is.

I mean, yeah, there's still faithful folks there, but Yeah, so Pray for the folks there in Frankfurt and all the faithful folks

Okay, we've gone way over time but I just felt it was necessary to talk about this real quick and Rich keeps saying we've we've got two hours on Twitter.

And so we have to use it all the rest that kind of stuff Looking at the story that broke today about Watertown, Wisconsin, you have a

Drag queen Performance going on in a public park the public has been invited to this

These are sexual perverts sexualizing children, it's against the law a Number of people have pointed out they've pointed they pointed to the direct law in Watertown that this is illegal

But as we all know What the law says and what the regime will do are two different things

The left will do whatever the left wants to do and what is

Amazing to me was watching the Arrest of a young man.

I saw a video when he was 19. So he's probably maybe 20 now. He's not a big guy Sorry, he might be 120 pounds sopping wet

They had Been told to get off to get on the sidewalk to get out of the park.

That was probably illegal in of itself And so he's preaching and You can go and watch some cops tried to shut

Jeff down outside an abortion clinic about four or five years ago and Jeff shut them down because he had the law right there and He said here

If you're gonna say we can't use amplification then you need to have this sound device that's in the law right here

So in other words, they have to have a sound meter to be able to say that's over the the decibel limit that you're supposed to have

There were no sound meters these cops the thing that really really really really bothers me here is that I'm from a generation

Where cops had consciences they made an oath

And there was morality and ethics involved in what they were supposed to be doing and how they enforced the law and So when 2020 hit

I was I was still naive enough to believe That you know, this can't happen here in the

United States that the cops aren't just not are not gonna do this I was wrong. The cops will do whatever they're told as Long as it pays their mortgage now,

I realize there have already been some who've left Who said I can't do this. I'm not

I'm not gonna do this more power to you But the ones are the left and of course they've been this is part of the they want to have

The people that'll do just whatever they're told and if that means turning on So here you have a situation where you have the law being broken.

You have sexual perverts Every person who's made in the image of God these cops know that what's going on up there is

Absolutely pure evil they know it But there are dozens of them and they're not going after criminals

They're not going after the you know, there were 47 people shot in Chicago over the weekend five of them died

They're not worried about that They're worried about protecting the sexual perverts that are breaking the law publicly and They will arrest the

Christians who are trying to warn these people about what's going to happen to them and I was stupid enough

Naive enough to think this this this wouldn't happen here. Well it it will and It is and it's happening right now, there's a lot of videos

Ben Zeisloft Has already in fact, I retweeted Ben's tweet

It's at Ben Zeisloft Z E I S L O F T that's definitely

German Zeisloft Ben's a young guy, but he's

He's he's one of the few journalists left out there So he's an endangered species and He got

He used to be with another media outlet shall we say and Found out that while they may be conservative they don't necessarily have

Consistent values. I'm not going he didn't say anything of this. I'm just observing this from outside so he is now with Repub sent at repub sentinel so you can click on that.

It's called the sentinel at repub sentinel on on Twitter X, whatever you call.

I'm still calling Twitter. I don't care it's called Twitter and he has

Interviewed the young men that were Arrested there's a whole story available there

In fact, let me look here. Yeah the sentinel

Today it was worth it. Youngstreet preacher arrested Wisconsin drag event and There's some pictures and stuff there

So, yeah, August 1st at 1205 so yeah, this is this is pretty recent stuff

But I'm I'm not sure here let me see if If This says

Because this is unreal. Okay. It is that's who I thought pastor Matt true. Hello, Matt True. Hello has written a lot of stuff on the lesser magistrates and material like that and So there is a video

I want to play for you If I can drag it over here Matt true.

Hello Speaking to the cops after they have arrested these young men And this is what it means

And by the way, there's another video I just see it right here now on on tik -tok actually and I don't have a tik -tok account

I never will but it's just so clear the utter misbehavior of the police just lawlessness absolute

They disrespect for citizens law Their oath their office everything every single one of them should be fired

Not every single one of them that was there should be fired. No question about but this guy, especially Oh sure, you can you can video you just have to stay back here blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and then all of a

Sudden bum rushed out because you know what happened The sexual perverts started complaining to the cops there that there was anybody there recording this because they know what they're gonna be doing and So what the cops do they just yes, sir sexual pervert,

I'll do whatever you tell me to do sir, it is so Oh Degrading for these men you men and women there women cops there, too

So in this video Matt true hella tells these cops This is what's coming this is you need to He said to them what

I would say to them So this is two and a half minutes, let's listen to Matt true.

Hello as he as the cops Pretend to ignore him But they're not ignoring him

Here here it is. So this is nothing new when you look down through history You'll notice that from time to time men make evil through law and that's what's happened here

Your mayor the civil authorities here are joining with evil and those of you who are lesser magistrates

You carry the guns You're not just mere robots for the state. You have to answer to God also for what you do

So when they do something contrary to his law and word your duty is not to obey them, but to tell them no

It's called the inner position of the lesser magistrate extremely important to understand it Romans 13 again for those of you officers who just arrived makes it clear that your duty is to punish the evildoers

That would be the people over there that are sexualizing children And your duty is to reward those who do good.

That would be the people you've arrested. So you've totally Perverted your

God -given function and role turned it on its head and we wonder how did evil

Get a foothold in Germany in the Soviet Union it was because of the blithe compliance of all the authorities

That one after another down the food chain said, yeah, I'm gonna look out for myself

Rather than do what's right and say no, this is wrong And this is wrong

What they're doing here is evil This would are you kidding me?

Do you see what's going on up in that stage? Do you see what they're normalizing this to the minds of the children when you're older these are the kids

They'll be the people who decide whether you live or die when you're elderly

This is what they're training them in So you have to make a decision to either go along to get along or to some point make a stand

Like at the very least you shouldn't be arresting the good guys and letting the bad guys have free reign

Your duty is to Arrest the bad guys. There is an ordinance right here in town regarding instructing children and sexual matters

What do you think that's all about? They're instructing children and sexual matters

You could arrest them But you chose not to you chose to arrest the Christians who are simply out here praying and offering literature to people

So this is not So there you go I'm very thankful that Matt Trujillo bore testimony to those those officers

What why why are you cops Why are you cops

Why are you police officers? There is not a single

Signer of the Declaration of Independence That could watch what's going on in that park and watch what happened that would not cry in shame

At the degradation of the nation they found not a single one not a single one the revolution has taken place and there are the revolutionaries and They will be judged judgment will be

Strict in accordance with God's righteousness Yes, sir, I Am convinced that the officer that was in the middle and the female blonde officer

They were exhibiting signs of shame He was shaming them and they were responding the first guy on the left.

He didn't care Totally unfazed but those two very uncomfortable people very uncomfortable

Well, there were others because when it would swing around you that there was actually a fair number of of police officers there and so that was

Very wise on his part All we can do is pray that some of those officers will seek them out and Get further counsel

I'm sure that Matt and his crew would be more than happy to Work with them as to how they can be godly

Lesser magistrates, but that's that's something we all have to be willing to do This is this is what we're going to be being called to do and I Just we have to pray any any

Christian in law enforcement today We have to pray for them Because I I think many of them already know they're being put in position they're not gonna be able to stay there and so the church has to be there to To stand beside them

But what happened there today is just an example. That is a blue state. The Constitution means nothing to the left

Means nothing. There is no such thing as free speech There isn't there is one set of rules for the sexual perverts and there's another set of rules for the people who want to protect kids and they're on the side of the sexual perverts and They will be judged for that and they need to be told of that.

No one talks about that You know all they know no, they don't no, they don't they need to be told that and That's what we have to do.

That doesn't make us better than them We have to do this as individuals who are thankful that God has opened our eyes to understand that coming judgment and that we have

Fled from that judgment to the only place that you can have eternal life and that's in Jesus Christ That's in Jesus Christ.

So Amazing experiences for those young men

Those young men specifically said hey Schroeder said in an interview with the

Sentinel that the incident has encouraged him and his fellow church members to further boldness knowing that the Fight's not just going to go away.

It was worth it It's actually an honor to be counted worthy to stand with the cloud of witnesses have gone before us and been arrested for the sake

Of spreading Christ in his kingdom He said if the police wanted to try and set an example for others or anything like that The only thing

I've seen is actually the exact opposite where more and more people are seeing the severity of what's going on and being Called to more action.

That's true That's true Good job young men God bless you and We must pray for the repentance of this nation because my my goodness

So you unfortunately been stuck with me and my colorful shirt all day we will someday have

Tobias back on when the when the when the camera will be working and Things like that, but thanks to both

Jason and Tobias For joining us today Lots to get to on I believe

Thursday when we'll be back again Probably get back into some of the Dale Tuggy stuff, but there's been some discussion of Nicene creed confessionalism all that stuff that again,

I think Though I'll just say this one thing. I think the fact that We are engaging

With the people denying the truth of the Nicene Council Or as the people who confess the

Nicene Creed What are you gonna do? If you engage the

Unitarians, the only way to engage them is the way we engage them on the basis of Scripture You can't just they've got their tradition.

You've got their you've got your tradition and and you all just sit there and go Well, look at my tradition. My tradition is better than your tradition

There's there's only one thing that's been given to the church that is powerful To change hearts and minds.

It's the Word of God made alive by the Spirit of God It's not it's not anything else there's nothing else that does that and Insofar as what

Nicea said was true to the scriptures then proclaim it But it's the scriptures that makes it true and it's the scriptures that gives the power

That's the reality. That's the reality. So we'll talk about that and stuff on Thursday Lord willing

I'm watching the there's a homeschool place nearby. They're busy today, and I think that's great because You look at what's going on in the schools today, and it is it is amazing