March 29, 2019 Show with Tim Geiger on “Gender, Sexuality & What it Means to be Human”

Iron Sharpens Iron

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:04

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

00:10

Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

00:23

Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

00:30

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

00:38

Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation

00:46

To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

00:54

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host

00:59

Chris Arnzen You Good afternoon

01:10

Cumberland County Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, I must said Cumberland County, Florida, and I don't think

01:15

I've ever done that since I started this program Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet

01:24

Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron Com this is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Friday on this final day at least final weekday of March 2019

01:38

March 29th 2019 and we are continuing a discussion that we began not long ago on the theme

01:48

Gendersexuality and what it means to be human, although we already started this Conversation we are now doing it with a first -time guest

01:57

We began the conversation with Todd Pruitt who is one of the speakers at an upcoming conference

02:04

That I'm going to be mentioning in a moment. But today we have another person who is speaking on the roster a

02:11

Tim Geiger And he is going to be speaking on gendersexuality and what it means to be human not only on today's show

02:18

But at the upcoming conference, I just mentioned a Tim Geiger had been struggling with secret same -sex attraction for 20 years and due to the grace and mercy and transforming power of our wonderful and sovereign

02:33

Jesus Christ He is now president of harvest USA He's a teaching elder and the

02:39

Presbyterian Church in America very commonly known as the PCA and he has a

02:44

Master of Divinity Degree from Westminster Theological Seminary in Glenside, Pennsylvania And now lives with his wife and family outside Philadelphia And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the first time ever to iron sharpens iron radio

02:59

Tim Geiger It's a pleasure to have you on and I'm going to give our email address

03:06

Right away for our listeners who may have questions of their own for you. It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

03:13

ch RIS Arnzen at gmail .com as always, please

03:18

Give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and I could obviously easily understand that there might be those out there who have

03:34

Personal and private questions and prefer to remain anonymous So you will be granted that request if that is the case

03:41

But if it's not a personal private question, please give us at least your first name city and state and country of residence

03:47

Well, Tim before we go into your personal story, please tell us about harvest USA Sure, Chris harvest

03:54

USA is a ministry that has been in existence for 35 years We were started by historic 10th

04:02

Presbyterian Church in Center City, Philadelphia Any fond memories of that church when the late dr.

04:08

James Montgomery Boyce was still with us I used to go to the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology when it was

04:14

Hosted there and I still go but it's not there anymore to another location outside of Philadelphia, but I'm sorry interrupted you

04:21

I just have such enormously wonderful memories of that church and of dr. Boyce and so Those are also connected with my late wife

04:29

Julie because she loved dr Boyce and we would actually go see him every time we had the opportunity in New York City when he was visiting

04:36

But I'm sorry interrupted you one. No, no, no, not at all It's yet another thing that we have in common

04:42

Chris 10th Church is something the Lord used to affect my life in many ways not not the least of which was the fact that it started harvest

04:50

USA and I Came to know about harvest

04:56

USA through the ministry of 10th Church Not too too long after the ministry began back in 1983

05:05

We started as a ministry to the gay male community in the city, but pretty quickly

05:12

Broadened out to start ministering to folks dealing with all kinds of sexual struggle so Almost from the day one.

05:22

We began helping men who were struggling with heterosexual lust and pornography women struggling sexually family members of those who struggled and people struggling with gender

05:33

And so the Lord has seemed fit to prosper our ministry through the years and we have a twofold mission today

05:41

We continue to help people Who struggle sexually in our offices in Philadelphia and in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania?

05:49

But we also have a ministry to equip the church so that the church increasingly becomes the place where folks

05:57

Who are struggling sexually can grow in faith and repentance and and I think that that's so So important Chris because in Scripture, we're told that the church is the place where people really grow

06:11

In repentance, you can't do it on your own. You can't do it privately. It's supposed to happen within the context of God's people

06:19

You know use the key word there I think a word that is has become as you probably know extremely unpopular

06:28

Especially in the 21st century, but it started long before the 21st century, but that's the word repentance and perhaps even

06:38

Specifically connected to the issue that we're discussing today when it comes to homosexuality there seems to be a growing movement of Evangelicals even professedly conservative evangelicals who believe in the inerrancy of Scripture And so on who believe at least in the minimal elements of the gospel of Jesus Christ but they seem to have the impression that there is a neutrality about homosexuality unless you physically

07:12

Consummate that desire in some way in other words You're okay, and you can be a quote -quote gay

07:20

Christian for the rest of your life But you just can't physically act upon it that would be the more conservative bent of this movement that I would be personally in Disagreement with because of the fact that they don't

07:34

I don't think that the movement takes seriously enough even the thought life or the

07:40

Attraction itself that exists amongst some people who could you respond to what I said there? Yeah, I would agree with you

07:47

Chris. I think that The fact that anyone would desire

07:55

Sexual contact with anyone whether it's it's just in their in their thoughts and imaginings

08:01

That's contrary to God's design for sex and sexuality is evidence that it's been corrupted by the fall and so I I would tend to think that part of walking in repentance would be to acknowledge that even the disordered desire the wrong desire to have sex with someone

08:23

Outside of God's good design for sex and sexuality has to be a result of the fall

08:31

And so I mean that that's part of what we do at harvest USA. We help people Who struggle with same -sex attraction to not only?

08:41

Have Changed behavior But the first part of having changed behavior is to have a changed heart and to begin to understand what it means to submit those desires

08:52

Even the desire behind the sexual desire to the Lord and find contentment in what he provides

08:59

Amen well tell us Something about this upcoming conference. In fact, it starts if I'm not mistaken.

09:06

It starts tonight It starts in about two hours It starts in tonight in Harrisonburg, Virginia And this is the right the conference gender sexuality and what it means to be human

09:19

And as I said, Tim Geiger is one of our speakers today Todd Pruitt is another and Carl Truman who

09:27

I've had on this program before is the third man on the roster

09:33

But unfortunately Carl's schedule is so hectic that I could not include him on one of my interviews promoting this event

09:40

But I look forward to getting Carl back on nonetheless in the future But to tell us about this a conference the

09:47

Blue Ridge Bible Conference on gender sexuality and what it means to be human Yes, so the

09:53

Blue Ridge Bible Conference is being put on by Covenant Presbyterian Church, which is the church of which

09:59

Todd Pruitt is senior minister down here in Harrisonburg, Virginia and as you mentioned the topic this year's gender sexuality and what it means to be human and Carl Todd and I Will give a series of five plenary addresses followed by a

10:18

Q &A session where we're addressing What what

10:23

God's design for gender is what God's designed for? The the beautiful gift of sex and and sexuality are and then how to live them out in God -glorifying ways within the context of of God's people so Begins tonight at 7 o 'clock

10:44

Sorry, I think I'm said 6 a moment ago, but it begins at 7 and I think if you're in the area you could just walk in and and Register this evening or even tomorrow morning

10:57

And if anybody wants more details, they can go to Alliance net org Alliance net org

11:03

That's the website of our friends at the Alliance of confessing evangelicals we always try to promote as much as we can the events that they are helping to orchestrate and You know

11:14

Alliance net org click on events and then scroll down to wherever you see gender sexuality and what it means to be human with that famous Leonardo da

11:25

Vinci Drawing on the the advertisement That I forget what that was called

11:32

Do you remember the name of that Leonardo da Vinci drawing it? It was something that has to do with the span of a man's arms being equal to his height

11:42

But anyway, I don't know if you've paid more attention in school than I did. Well, I was an art major Yes, I definitely am

11:54

I'm ashamed that every day I do this show I'm always saying something Incorrect or stupid or what have you?

12:00

But um The now we're going to go into the your own fascinating story if you could tell our listeners to start with what kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in if any and When you first became aware of your same -sex attraction

12:18

And then of course the most glorious and wonderful and amazing part of your story is how you

12:25

Came to Christ didn't discover his saving grace and mercy and transforming power

12:32

Amen. Well, let me preface that by saying Any any glory that comes from this story belongs to the

12:40

Lord amen I for for so much of it. I have been and continue to be an unwilling participant in the way, the

12:48

Lord is unfolding this story and all all praise and glory be to him for anything good that comes out of my life, but I'm the the oldest of five kids.

12:59

I was born into a working -class family in Northeast Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and I was raised in the church to the best of my knowledge.

13:15

I Am the only believer in my family

13:23

So, I mean that's that's a lot the Lord in his Providence brought me into that church through the agency of my grandparents and I'm not sure why he kept me there except it was a place where I heard his word

13:43

Read and and proclaimed Came to faith, I think fairly early the first time

13:50

I remember understanding at a very basic level That I was a sinner and that I needed

13:56

The grace of God and had a relationship with him through Jesus was at the age of five

14:04

And that's pretty much where my spiritual development stalled for a long time so this was a

14:12

Lutheran Church and You know back in in ancient history 45 years ago the

14:19

Lutheran Church was You know, not not completely off the rails Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I was a part of the

14:29

ELCA not not the not the Missouri Senate and so the

14:36

ELCA and it at the time its predecessor predecessor of the Lutheran Church in America was still, you know fairly

14:44

Orthodox and I heard the gospel proclaimed and you know to a certain extent I heard the gospel preached and and the

14:50

Lord used that to to in part regenerate my heart but Around that time.

14:58

I also began to to feel drawn toward other boys I didn't have any friends growing up who were boys.

15:05

All of my friends were girls and I Found that I was drawn to them not sexually but I was drawn to them just because I wanted a friend

15:17

I wanted Someone else to affirm that there was something good in me and there was something good about being who

15:26

I was I don't know if you remember the TV show

15:32

The Partridge Family. Oh, yeah but You know the the older brother in the

15:40

Partridge family was the character's name was Keith David Cassidy played by David Cassidy, yeah, and I I wanted to have

15:50

Keith as a brother I wanted to have him as a friend because like he there was something about him that made me feel

15:58

Free when when I imagined being His brother when I imagined being his friend there was just something life affirming about that And and what

16:07

I was really looking for at the time was just male Male affirmation male companionship someone again to build me up as a boy

16:21

So I began to find that there was someone who wanted to build me up There was a slightly older boy who moved into my neighborhood couple of years later named

16:32

Jimmy and Jimmy Took a liking to me. I don't don't remember why

16:38

I don't even remember how we met other than we went to the same school but again, he was a couple of years older, so we weren't in the same classes and Jimmy began to sexually abuse me and At that early age.

16:53

I had no idea what was going on except what was being communicated to me was Finally here is another guy another boy who is showing me what it means to be loved and the means by which

17:10

I Learned how to receive love was through sex and so After a couple of years

17:18

Jimmy moved away And then I found my father's stash of pornography Hidden in the house, and so, you know didn't really understand what

17:28

I was looking at but From the context of what had happened with Jimmy. I kind of latched on to the male images in that pornography and Entered into a fantasy life that continued for four years now was your father's pornography homosexual in nature

17:48

No, no, it was heterosexual Okay, and unlike so much of the pornography today none of it was electronic it was all magazines and books, right

17:59

But I would turn to that Chris sometimes multiple times a day as an escape and I I would turn to that when

18:06

I felt Lonely, I would turn to that when I felt angry. I would turn to that when

18:11

I felt tired Anytime I was really looking for comfort I would turn to that pornography and enter into that fantasy and Would wind up comforting myself through through pornography and masturbation

18:28

But I'm assuming from what you just said this pornography though that was Becoming a part of your life

18:35

You had some heterosexual attraction even as a young person because of what you just said about the nature of the pornography.

18:43

It wasn't it wasn't Homosexual pornography, I'm guessing here. I don't know but if you could explain about that yeah, so I mean just as a

18:54

Parenthetical statement. I think that the way that we're all created is we have a heterosexual orientation and so I I would tend to agree with you at some level but The the images that I latched on to in my father's heterosexual pornography

19:12

Were the male images, you know, there weren't a lot of them, but I said Um, I would look at a male image read read a story about about a guy and just kind of enter into that fantasy

19:23

What would it be like to be that guy? What would it be like to be loved by that guy the same way that Jimmy had loved me?

19:31

And so that became like I said a source of comfort for for many many years Now I I was a

19:38

Christian while all of this was happening and the little bit that I knew about scripture said things like Homosexuality is a sinful lifestyle men who practice homosexuality from 1st

19:53

Corinthians 6 Will not inherit the kingdom of God. And so I felt Ashamed and I felt guilty of what

20:00

I was doing and yet I couldn't stop I felt I mean the guiltier

20:05

I felt the more ashamed I felt the more I felt drawn To to want to comfort myself And this was the only way that I could find to do it

20:14

So as I went through my teen years, I became increasingly discouraged I became increasingly

20:22

Convinced that God hated me and I mean that just fueled my My need for comfort more and more

20:29

I became depressed. I actually Became suicidal. I didn't by God's grace didn't act on this, but I had suicidal ideation

20:40

I don't know how many times in my teen years in early 20s

20:46

And really felt as though I had to just you know, this is where my

20:51

Lutheranism comes in. I had to just Balance the ledger so that I had at least as many good works

21:01

To weigh against all of the the sin that I had committed because I had to you know You know in a semi -flagging way.

21:07

I had to kind of earn my way into the kingdom It wasn't

21:14

Until the Lord really brought everything crashing down in my life in my my late 20s, but I realized

21:20

I couldn't continue Going the way that I could in God's Providence He threw a number of factors.

21:29

He brought a hard stop to my Downward progression and he brought me into 10th

21:37

Presbyterian Church and When I when I first began listening to the sermon to 10th

21:44

Providentially James Boyce began preaching a series from Romans that talked about the doctrines of grace and for the first time

21:55

Chris I The spirit brought to life these these doctrines that I had read about but never really understood or or believed and One was that there was no way that I could be good enough to earn

22:09

God's favor That's why Christ had to die on my behalf There was no way that my salvation could ever be taken from me

22:21

You know, I I couldn't sin enough in order to be removed From from God's grace

22:29

And and you know, the Lord just really began Giving me a different kind of hope that that may be

22:37

Everything that I had believed up to this point about God and myself might not be entirely true

22:44

And it was at 10th that I first learned about Harvest USA Even though it was a separate organization by that point and was still advertising it in their bulletin

22:55

And Chris, I took that bulletin home. I think it was about 28 I took that bulletin home and I kept it by my phone for six months before I called and You know time after time

23:08

I would go over and look at that bulletin. I would pick it up I you know, sometimes

23:13

I would even pick the phone up and begin dialing the number But then I would hang it up again because I was so afraid of telling anyone what

23:23

I was struggling with Even though the Lord was bringing new new faith and new understanding into my my my heart

23:31

I Still Was so ashamed of what

23:37

I had done and and was still so confused because I thought I was the only Christian who struggled with same -sex attraction

23:45

The reason I thought that is because no one in in church ever talked about it the only context

23:51

I ever heard Homosexual behavior discussed was in the context of unbelievers and So I didn't know how to have a conversation with another

24:02

Christian and say hey, here's what I'm struggling with what I was afraid of Of them saying in return was well, you must not be a

24:09

Christian in the first place but by God's grace October of 1997

24:15

I Reached out to Harvest USA Went in talked to the staff person and he told me two

24:27

Revolutionary things revolutionary for me one was I Wasn't the only Christian struggling with same -sex attraction and the second thing was that same -sex attraction wasn't my biggest problem

24:40

He he ventured this idea that there was sin behind the sin

24:48

That that there was something behind that the same -sex attraction that I struggled with and what he identified that was was idolatry and It's really amazing when you think about that how how all of that fits together

25:03

James tells us in James chapter 1 That when we experience temptation, we shouldn't think that it's

25:08

God who's tempting us But he says that we're tempted when we experience desire in our own hearts and Then he says desire gives birth to temptation

25:20

Temptation leads to sin and sin when it's fully grown brings forth death and so You know that that began the process of me really trying to understand what what

25:35

I was struggling with behind the same -sex attraction and What I was struggling with was very similar to what so many other people struggle with not just Other people who struggle with same -sex attraction, but with all other kinds of sin sexual and non -sexual those those kinds of idols are are otherwise good desires things like affirmation and affection and comfort and control and Intimacy those were the kinds of things that I was seeking for seeking after and I was using sex as a means to try to satisfy them and To to the extent that I began to Submit those underlying idols those underlying desires to God and and to begin to find contentment in in God's presence in my life and In his promises for me.

26:35

I found that Not only did the same -sex attraction become less powerful in my life

26:45

But that I found that I had greater control over it when temptation did come. I found that I didn't have to run

26:52

To sin to satisfy those desires Because I could be content in Christ.

26:58

I could do you know, I could I could experience what Paul talks about in Philippians chapter 4 verses 4 through 7 when he when he describes this piece of God that passes

27:09

Understanding that keeps our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus and And you know that piece of God isn't some magical Voodoo, it's it's actually believing

27:21

God's promises and resting in who we are as people who have been redeemed by the blood of Christ and so repentance for me

27:33

Goes on to this day It you know, it was slow particularly during the first couple of years because I had 20 years 20 plus years of behavior that I had become accustomed to and Leaving that behind Was was difficult but within the first couple of years,

27:58

I began to notice that I Was desiring differently I was acting differently.

28:05

I was hoping differently I Had been dating a woman

28:13

While all this was going on she and I wound up getting married in 2001 we have a daughter a beautiful 15 year old daughter and We continue to walk together in Understanding what it means to serve and worship the

28:34

Lord as Repentant obedient children Praise God.

28:40

Well, we have to go to our first station break right now I want to pick up where we left off when we return and as I said earlier if anybody out there has a question of Your own that you would like to ask

28:52

Tim Geiger. Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com chris arnzen at gmail .com

29:01

Please as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the

29:07

USA and Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

29:12

Don't go away We'll be right back with Tim Geiger after these messages from our sponsors Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio announcing a new website with an exciting offer from world

29:26

Magazine my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective Try world now at no charge for 90 days by going to get world now

29:36

Calm that's get world now calm. I rely on world because I trust the reporting

29:42

I gain insight from the analysis and world provides clarity to the news stories that really matter

29:48

I believe you'll also find world to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth

29:55

That's simply not found in other media outlets Armed with this coverage world can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community

30:03

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of world magazine on scene reporting from world radio and the fully shareable content of world

30:12

Digital there's no obligation and no credit card required Visit get world now calm today

30:19

Also, check out world newsgroups podcast the world and everything in it at Wng .org

30:27

Forward slash podcast. That's W for world n for news

30:32

G for group org forward slash podcast My name is

30:40

Steve Lawson founder and president of one passion ministries as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier ministries

30:46

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the master's seminary in Los Angeles I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students

30:56

Andy Woodard serves as the pastor It's called New Covenant Church NYC. They are a reformed

31:02

Baptist Church that meets in Midtown, Manhattan You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc

31:11

.nyc They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel

31:19

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching in New York City I'd like to recommend that you visit

31:29

New Covenant Church, NYC Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

31:36

.nyc Have a great day Tired of box -store

31:43

Christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

31:51

And how about the preaching perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island Well, there's good news

31:59

Waiting River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience

32:04

Featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word and this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you

32:11

Call them at 6 3 1 9 2 9 35 12 for service times 6 3 1 9 2 9 35 12 or check out their website at wrbc .us

32:24

That's wrbc .us I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study used by pastors scholars and everyday readers

32:36

The NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible translation The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages

32:45

Which the NASB is known for the NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy.

32:53

The new topical reference Bible includes contemporary topics relevant to today's issues From compacted giant print

33:00

Bibles find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible .com Whichever edition you choose trust discover and enjoy the

33:08

NASB for yourself today go to nasbible .com That's nasbible .com

33:14

And please remember folks that if your church has Pew Bibles that are falling apart

33:22

They're filled with children's graffiti or perhaps the leaders of your church believe it is time to move on to a different translation than the one that you've been using for many years perhaps a more faithful translation to the original languages of the

33:39

Bible Well, please if you are not in a decision -making position like a an elder or a deacon

33:47

Please contact your elders and deacons and talk to them about having your church replace your pew

33:55

Bibles with new American Standard Bibles and Brand -new new American Standard Bibles from nasbible .com

34:02

nasbible .com And if you've never had pew Bibles, perhaps now is the time you should order some so that those especially those who are not

34:11

Christians who visit your congregation and Normally might not have a Bible under their arm when they walk in they can just reach under to the either under the seat or in the pew rack that Contain Bibles and hymnals and so on and grab one of the new

34:27

American Standard Bibles that you've just supplied your church building with so please help iron sharpens iron remain on the air by Patronizing our advertisers and one of the most faithful that we've ever had

34:42

Since we first launched in 2005 are the publishers of the new American Standard Bible That's nas

34:47

Bible calm nas Bible calm and always make sure that you tell the publishers of the new

34:53

American Standard Bible and any of our other Advertisers that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio.

35:00

We are now back with our guest today Tim Geiger and Tim Geiger is

35:07

Someone that is on the speaking roster at the upcoming conference gender sexuality and what it means to be human this is the

35:15

Blue Ridge Bible Conference, which is being held in Harrisonburg, Virginia starting tonight and running through the 30th

35:24

Saturday of March and He is also the

35:31

The president of Harvest USA and He is an elder in the PCA the

35:36

Presbyterian Church in America And by the way, I think I might have forgotten to give you the website for Harvest USA in case

35:44

I forget to do it Later, let me do it now. It's harvest USA org Harvest USA org if you have a question for Tim our email address is

35:52

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen gmail .com,

35:58

please Give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and Before we go to any listener questions

36:08

Tim. I wanted to kind of backtrack on some of your story Every time or at least 99 % of the time that I can remember

36:20

I have heard a Person whose struggles with same -sex attraction either whether they were

36:28

Not at all a Christian as lost as lost could be and perhaps even fully committed

36:35

To that activity and proud of it and celebratory of it or even Christians who have repented of it somewhere in the story

36:44

Almost every time I can remember they involve their stories involve two things and of course

36:52

I'm not trying to broad brush here because you know, there are individuals who are an exception to what

36:57

I'm about to say But but typically you hear that the person especially when we're talking about a male person involved in homosexual activity

37:06

Or at least in same -sex attraction. They were neglected in some serious level of neglect by their own father and they were sexually molested by a

37:18

Older male figure in their life, whether it be a relative or neighbor a friend or a stranger

37:24

I know that the second was a part of your story was the first part of your own

37:30

Testimony because I don't remember you saying anything about your relationship with your dad Yeah, thank you for bringing that up Chris.

37:37

I It is true. I you know, like so many other instances in my life.

37:44

I Fall into the stereotype my dad who died 12 years ago now

37:53

Was very emotionally distant The Memories that I have of him

38:01

Growing up particularly when I was very young were of him Pretty much sitting in front of the television and not interacting with us

38:10

And you know, it turns out as I learned more about my my dad's story

38:17

He was a very broken man in his own right and I don't think he had much to offer us

38:24

Emotionally certainly didn't have much to offer spiritually but yeah, my dad was emotionally absent and You know, he and my mom remained married up until the day he died but I Don't know

38:45

Kind of the quality of their marriage Now when you have had conversations with other people with same -sex attraction is the same true as far as a typical scenario with lesbianism is it is it also true that very often if not most often a

39:04

Girl who is neglected by her mother and perhaps was sexually molested by a woman has the same kind of unfortunate spiral down into perversion and on a lifetime

39:17

If not rescued by God himself of this either same -sex attraction or even ongoing physical consummation of that attraction

39:27

Sure, I'll answer that and then if I could I want to circle back and just talk about kind of a generality with you as well typically

39:38

Women who wind up struggling with same -sex attraction Have a little bit of a different backstory than men.

39:46

So a lot of women first of all women who are sexually

39:55

Abused are often abused not by their mothers or by women but by men

40:02

I mean, there's certainly are cases where a woman is abused by her mother or by some other woman known to her but Many of the the women with whom we work at harvest

40:16

USA at least the ones who have been abused Report having been abused by some man whom

40:23

I know and they don't tend to report the same kind of Absent or or diminished relationship with their same -sex parents so The ways in which men and women kind of fulfill those stereotypical

40:43

Experiences differ and You know just by way of a general statement.

40:49

I Would offer that there's no guarantee that a man or a woman Experiencing those circumstances is going to wind up struggling with same -sex attraction, right?

40:59

No, you know one of the reasons why Shortly after I came on staff at harvest

41:05

USA. We merged our two separate ministries for men

41:12

Struggling with same -sex attraction and men struggling with heterosexual lust Was because we found that probably 95 % of the time their backstories were the same and so you know, it was it was typical for a man who's

41:31

Struggled with same -sex attraction and a man who struggled with heterosexual pornography To have the almost the exact same experiences or at least the exact same kinds of experiences growing up And you know as a matter of fact when we go out and teach churches about this and we talk about how struggles with sexual sin develop we don't make a differentiation between heterosexual sin and and same -sex in patterns because They all tend to come from the same background experiences

42:09

Those experiences shape us to perceive ourselves and other people in God in particular ways and it's just The ways in which

42:19

God has wired us that would would move some people to struggle with same -sex attraction and some people with heterosexual lust now

42:29

Having said what you said, I Believe and I've said this before in the program And even your colleague who's going to be speaking at the upcoming conference that starts tonight

42:40

Todd Pruitt He agreed with me that there needs to be clarity on the issue when we are discussing sexuality in regard to the difference between heterosexual and homosexual even though all sex whether they whether it be heterosexual or homosexual outside of the marriage bed is sin and damnable but at the same time

43:08

Heterosexual desires are not only natural But they are a gift. I mean, that's why we can get married and procreate etc.

43:17

Whereas homosexual desires and especially obviously activity are unnatural and Perhaps even more dangerous to the psyche and so on.

43:29

So wouldn't you say that there is a Distinction to be made because I know that there are a lot of people

43:36

In outreach to the those struggling with same -sex attraction that seem to minimize

43:43

The severity of that unique sin. In fact, some will even go on to say something as extreme as look

43:53

Homosexuality is no more of a sin than gluttony or stealing office supplies at work or You know

44:02

Wishing that you owned your neighbor's Cadillac And coveting over his property.

44:09

Is it there is something uniquely? Distinct and even dangerous about a homosexual desire and physical consummation of it

44:21

So I didn't hear exactly what Todd Said on your program. I'm sorry. I didn't listen to that episode

44:28

And so I can't speak directly to that What I would say is that Whether whether one sins

44:43

Through acting out on same -sex desires or whether one sins acting out through Heterosexual desire that is not directed toward one's spouse.

44:59

Both of those are a distortion of God's design for sex and sexuality

45:05

You know, I there are Perhaps distinctions that we could draw That show how same -sex sin

45:15

Distorts the the the individual's sense of self and how they relate to one another in the body of Christ and how they relate to one another even in society as opposed to heterosexual lust

45:31

But God didn't create us to be sexually attracted to every potential sex partner

45:37

Sexual desire is something that is a gift from God, but it's something that we're called to steward and to only act on When it's within the context of our relationship with a spouse and so, you know,

45:54

I have this conversation Fairly frequently with with Men who don't struggle with same -sex attraction and they say well, you know,

46:03

I saw an attractive woman at the convenience store This afternoon and I thought to myself when

46:10

I saw her boy. Is she hot? you know that is you know, perhaps that's not a explicitly drawn -out sexual fantasy, but that is a

46:22

Misuse a sinful misuse Of sexual desire that is just as sinful as The same -sex attracted person saying boy, you know that that other guy is is attractive over there but if he used a different word, let's say he just said wow that woman is

46:40

Stunning. She's she's really a remarkably beautiful woman. Is there something wrong with a Christian man saying something like that?

46:47

No, because to the extent that you say that That person is beautiful As long as there's no sexual intent or sexual

47:00

Flavor attached to that comment or that Perception in your heart then.

47:06

Yeah, you're acknowledging as someone to whom God has given an aesthetic sense that that that other person is beautiful, but If in your mind in your heart in your words

47:19

If you say boy, you know, it would sure be nice to Be physically involved with that person it would sure be nice to get something out of that person to serve me whether that person is your own gender or Another gender that that's a sinful misuse of that person.

47:40

That's that's envy that that's covetousness Yes In fact, you know, obviously we both know that Jesus Christ said that you've committed adultery already if you have those desires in your heart

47:50

But I guess the difference the difference would be though that that there is never an acceptable sexual attraction that one can have towards someone of his own gender whereas With even with the most seasoned of Christians there will be a

48:10

Guard he has to put around himself because of a natural God -given attraction to the opposite sex and even like we have a profound example of that In the

48:21

Old Testament with Joseph when he when when Potter for his wife was seducing him.

48:26

He didn't hang around and evangelize her He ran From her because he he was afraid of what he might do.

48:34

I'm assuming So I'm just saying that I think that there is in fact

48:40

Convinced that there is definitely a difference between the sin of Abusing a gift of sexual attraction, which is heterosexual than someone trying to say that is equal on every level

48:52

To have a homosexual attraction as long as that's not consummated physically as if if you understand what

48:58

I'm saying Sure, and I mean just to just to put it simply If the

49:04

Lord did not give me Sexual attraction toward my wife. I would have no viable

49:11

Outlet for sexual desire right the way that God would be calling me to steward my sexual desire is

49:18

To not act on it at all so The Lord in his

49:23

Providence has given me sexual desire toward my wife and it is completely right and appropriate that I should feel that toward her by the same token, you know

49:36

This isn't a blessing, but I find myself sexually attracted to other women as well

49:41

So, you know, it's it's not appropriate for me to Act on that attraction as women.

49:48

It's only appropriate for me to steward that desire and to To apply it toward my wife well,

49:57

I'm also happy to hear that God has obviously transformed you in that way because I have heard of people who

50:09

Unfortunately Will call themselves gay Christians and they'll say yes

50:15

I am gay, but I don't act upon it physically and this is the way I am It's basically an attitude of waving the white flag

50:23

Saying I've given up on any hope of God changing me. I am this third category of Of gender if you will and I will just Obey God by not physically acting upon it.

50:37

And so I would disagree radically with that that understanding of things Definitely and you know today we have this whole movement within The the church and you know,

50:50

I'm I'm a Presbyterian and so I deal mainly with folks in the Reformed tradition

50:58

We have this growing population of people who referred themselves as gay

51:04

Christians and You know it is Interesting that they refer to themselves as gay

51:12

Christians because I think You know for everyone who calls himself a gay Christian. It probably means something different to them

51:19

But one thing that the kind of the movement in general Seems to land on is that calling yourself a gay

51:29

Christian means this is now your identity, right? and They they don't look to see how the

51:36

Lord might sovereignly work to change your affections to change your desire I Should say and this is this is an area where we have to be careful

51:45

Chris because one of the ways in which I think the church has put a burden on The Christians who have struggled with same -sex attraction in the past Is they've said the proof of your repentance is that you're going to develop other sex attraction and you know, hopefully get married and That simply isn't the case for everyone who walks in repentance, right?

52:10

Even there are isn't it even as the scriptures teach there are eunuchs who were made that way by God not not not physically by men with a knife, but By God himself and they just never had any sexual attraction either way, right?

52:26

right, and so, you know, those are eunuchs who who don't have sexual attraction and that that could be

52:35

Referring to men who experience same -sex attraction, but I would tend to think that If you broaden that category

52:43

What it means is that? For the same -sex attracted man of the same -sex attracted woman repentance will have a variety of Fruit associated with it

52:56

And so, you know for some people God calls them to be married and if God calls you to be married

53:01

He'll give you sexual attraction sexual desire Toward your spouse if he doesn't call you to be married, then he won't give you that gift and so You know when we work with men and women who struggle with same -sex attraction at Harvest We we say that's something that's not really within your control.

53:22

It's certainly something you can pray for. It's something that you can Can earnestly desire the

53:29

Lord would do but it's up to the Lord's Subjective calling on your life as to whether you'll have that Other sex attraction and be married or not

53:44

We're going to a Midway break right now and as those of you who listen to my program regularly know this is a longer than normal break because grace life radio in Lake City, Florida a 90 .1

53:59

FM they air iron sharpens iron radio as well In addition to it being live -streamed

54:06

Over the internet and they have to localize iron sharpens iron radio to their local community in Lake City, Florida, and they air their own

54:13

Commercials while we air ours, so they need this station break to air Lake City, Florida public service announcements and commercials so please

54:22

Be patient as we take this elongated break and use this time wisely by writing a question for our

54:30

Guest Tim Geiger on sexuality in general or specifically homosexuality and Also, please

54:40

Write down the information provided by our advertisers The only way that we remain on the air is through the generous support of our advertisers who purchase advertising on iron

54:52

Sharpens iron radio those advertising dollars in addition to the generous Donations of listeners are the only way that we can survive so I would appreciate it if you could write down the information provided by our advertisers during this break so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them and that as I said enables us to remain on the air longer because obviously if Our advertisers are getting results.

55:22

They're going to want to remain as our advertisers And some might not have the financial ability to do so even if they love this show if they don't get results so please do both of those things write down information provided by our advertisers and also send in questions to Tim Geiger and by the way,

55:37

Tim I forwarded you two questions from our listeners so that you can look them over during the break and perhaps

55:47

We've further equipped to respond when that when we read the questions on the air when we return great and So we're gonna be right back after these messages.

55:57

So do not go away I'm pastor

56:09

Billy Linhart of Sovereign Grace Particular Baptist Church of San Angelo, Texas And I'm thrilled to have joined the iron sharpens iron radio family of sponsors

56:17

We fully subscribe to the second London Baptist confession of faith as a faithful summary of the most vital biblical truths

56:24

Desire to worship the triune God of the Holy Scriptures in spirit and truth and seek to make his glory known in the

56:31

Concho Valley West Texas and beyond Sovereign Grace PBC of San Angelo purposes to center our worship on the

56:39

Holy Scriptures and the gospel of Jesus Christ in the hope that he will grow us in love and the unity of truth

56:45

After Sunday services join us for a fellowship meal followed by our ladies fellowship and our children's

56:50

Sunday school class If you're looking for a church in West, Texas That's serious about the Word of God and worship that pleases him come visit us for details about Sovereign Grace Particular Baptist Church of San Angelo, Texas email sgbcsa at gmail .com

57:06

or visit us at sgbcsa .com That's sgbcsa .com

57:20

Hello, my name is James Renahan and I'm the president of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas The Word of God says if a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing

57:32

Do you have the desire to serve Jesus Christ in pastoral ministry? 20 years ago the

57:38

Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies at Westminster Seminary, California was born For those two decades these institutions work together to train men for ministry in Reformed Baptist churches

57:49

It has been a wonderful partnership Now we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses

57:56

Leading to the Master of Divinity degree. This is IRBS Theological Seminary We believe that the scriptures of the

58:03

Old and New Testaments are the inspired and inerrant Word of God The Jesus Christ is God in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life death and resurrection

58:12

And that the task of the church is to honor and serve the triune God in all things IRBS Theological Seminary is dedicated by God's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to these doctrines

58:23

Do you sense a call to serve Jesus Christ in his church as a pastor? Why not consider

58:29

IRBS Theological Seminary? You'll find more information at IRBS seminary .org

58:34

That's IRBS seminary .org two S's in the middle. I hope to hear from you soon.

58:40

God bless you Chris Sorensen host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

58:46

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

58:52

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer But not the type that typically comes to mind.

58:59

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself Recently, he wrote a book titled consider the evidence for the

59:06

Bible Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword Dan also has a master's degree in theology

59:12

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states He represents many

59:18

Christians in serious injury matters all over the country Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer

59:24

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy and currently his firm has over 100 cases

59:31

That have settled for 1 million dollars or more and in approximately 10 different states

59:37

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history in New York His case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the

59:48

Law Journal If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state,

59:54

I recommend that you call Dan Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win

01:00:01

Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878

01:00:09

Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:00:15

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com I'm Dr.

01:00:22

Gary Kimbrough pastor Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi God tells us in James 1 27 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction

01:00:31

In the providence of God three years ago I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka Zambia in a township called

01:00:37

Cabanana who are taking care of 24 orphans I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding

01:00:43

What was I to do? Could I just say God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children said heavily upon me as I was praying concerning this need it came to me

01:00:51

I trust from the Lord to tell the orphans plight to a broader audience the entire need for their clothing food

01:00:56

Education and some medical services is $73 per month per child If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need

01:01:04

Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds There so if you give a dollar a dollar we'll get to the orphans in this season of hope and giving will you consider giving?

01:01:12

Hope to 24 orphans, please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church 838

01:01:18

Reed Road Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or donate through our website

01:01:23

BBC Laurel calm again The address is Bethlehem Baptist Church 838

01:01:29

Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or BBC laurel .com

01:01:38

One sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers

01:01:45

I know you all use batteries every day So I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively use battery

01:01:53

Depot calm for all your battery needs at battery Depot calm

01:01:58

They're changing the status quo. They're flipping the script. They're sticking it to the man in other words

01:02:04

They'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory of top -of -the -line batteries that are uniformly new dependable and affordable

01:02:14

Ordering from battery Depot calm ensures you'll always get fresh out -of -the -box batteries

01:02:20

You can count on to work properly at competitive prices Whether you need batteries for cordless phones cell phones radios

01:02:29

PCs laptops tablets baby monitors hearing aids smoke detectors credit card readers digital cameras electronic cigarettes

01:02:39

GPS's mp3 players watches or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries go to battery

01:02:47

Depot Calm next -day shipping available all products protected by 30 -day guarantees and six -month warranties call eight six six four zero three

01:02:58

Thirty seven sixty eight. That's eight six six four zero three Thirty -seven sixty -eight or go to battery

01:03:05

Depot calm. That's battery Depot calm My name is

01:03:12

Steve Lawson founder and president of one passion ministries as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier ministries

01:03:18

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students

01:03:28

Andy Woodard serves as the pastor It's called New Covenant Church NYC. They are a reformed

01:03:34

Baptist Church that meets in Midtown, Manhattan You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc

01:03:43

.nyc They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel

01:03:51

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching in New York City I'd like to recommend that you visit

01:04:01

New Covenant Church, NYC Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

01:04:08

.nyc Have a great day Iron sharpens iron radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars a year -round

01:04:19

Bible conference and retreat center nestled on the Jersey Shore Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400 for generations

01:04:29

Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars Each year thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word an additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families couples singles men women pastors seniors and missionaries 90 miles from New York City 70 miles from Philly and 95 miles from Wilmington and easily accessible scores of notable

01:04:59

Christian groups frequently planned conferences at Harvey Cedars like the Navigators InterVarsity Christian Fellowship Campus Crusade and the

01:05:09

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org

01:05:18

hcbible .org Call 609 -494 -5689 609 -494 -5689

01:05:28

Harvey Cedars where Christ finds people and changes lives James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here

01:05:47

If you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough You know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry

01:05:55

Rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity and besides that they feel so good. I'm so delighted

01:06:01

I discovered post tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding no radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently

01:06:08

But I'll give it a shot Jeffrey rice of post tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan

01:06:14

All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching

01:06:20

Jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like the turquoise goat skin

01:06:28

Tanned in Italy used for my Nestle all in 28th edition with a navy blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin

01:06:36

From a French tannery used to rebind a Reformation study Bible. I used as a gift the silver gilding

01:06:42

He added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome

01:06:47

Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather

01:06:53

Making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art for more details on post tenebrous

01:07:00

Lux Bible rebinding go to PTL Bible rebinding dot -com that's

01:07:06

PTL Bible rebinding dot -com Did you know that all believers are priests and first Peter chapter 2 verse 9 the

01:07:25

Apostle Peter describes Christ's Church as? Comprising a chosen race a royal priesthood a holy nation a people for God's own possession

01:07:33

So that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light

01:07:40

So if you're a Christian, you're also a priest now You can find the newest styles in Reformed and Protestant apparel at citizenpriest .com

01:07:49

citizenpriest .com Specializes in Christian themed t -shirts and clothing especially for Reformed Christians citizenpriest .com's

01:07:57

merchandise is purposefully scripture based and meant for the edification of the Saints and the furtherance of the gospel

01:08:04

Let everyone know that you stand firm on the doctrines of the Reformed faith by wearing apparel from citizenpriest .com

01:08:12

Visit citizenpriest .com today and with the warmer weather now here

01:08:17

I'm sure that you'll be wearing t -shirts a lot more often. So why not order them from citizenpriest .com

01:08:23

and Show off your faith in public with a scripture verse or some other

01:08:29

Christian connected Saying an image on your t -shirts and that will also as I remind you

01:08:36

It will also help Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to remain on the air Because citizen and priest they keep getting

01:08:43

Business from us they may continue to advertise with us So please remember citizenpriest .com now that the warmer weather is here, especially and with all kinds of gift -giving events coming up citizenpriest .com

01:08:55

we are back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio right now and Before we return to our interview with Tim Geiger of Harvest USA on our theme gender sexuality and what it means to be human

01:09:06

We just have some upcoming Announcements that we want you to know about so that you can attend them

01:09:11

And the first is the one that we are focusing on today That is what I just mentioned the the conference the

01:09:18

Blue Ridge Bible Conference on gender sexuality and what it means to be human Which starts tonight and ends tomorrow

01:09:25

March 29th and March 30th in Harrisonburg, Virginia The speakers are our guests today's

01:09:32

Tim Geiger Todd Pruitt who was on our program on March 6th and Also, Carl Truman who is no stranger to the

01:09:41

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience The location is the Covenant Presbyterian Church in Harrisonburg, Virginia and for more details go to Alliance net org alliance net org click on events and then scroll down to gender sexuality and what it means to be human

01:09:57

The Blue Ridge Bible Conference on Gender sexuality and what it means to be human.

01:10:03

That's tonight through tomorrow March 29th and 30th Then tomorrow night

01:10:09

We have for those of you closer to Long Island, New York We have a debate that is

01:10:16

Taking place at the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York pastored by my friend

01:10:22

Bruce Bennett He Bruce Bennett is going to be debating a Roman Catholic apologist named

01:10:28

Matthew Matthew Luke Broderick on the theme Purgatory is it biblical? That's tomorrow night at 630 at the

01:10:36

Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York For more details, you can go to the

01:10:41

Word of Truth Church's website, which is WOT church .com WOT standing for word of truth church .com

01:10:49

WOT church .com or call them at 631 806 0 6 14 6 3 1 8 0 6 0 6 1 4

01:10:59

That's the purgatory debate tomorrow night at 630 at the Word of Truth Church Farmingville, Long Island, New York between pastor

01:11:06

Bruce Bennett and Roman Catholic apologist Matthew Luke Broderick Then coming up in May On Thursday, May 23rd from 11 a .m.

01:11:17

To 2 p .m I am conducting the spring Iron Sherpins Iron radio pastors luncheon here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania at the

01:11:25

Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall Featuring my dear friend who is no stranger to the

01:11:30

Iron Sherpins Iron audience. Dr Tony Costa professor of apologetics in Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary Dr.

01:11:38

Costa will be speaking on the theme how the Dead Sea Scrolls vindicate the reliability of the

01:11:44

Holy Scriptures and He will be conducting a PowerPoint presentation on that all men in ministry leadership are welcome and it's free of charge

01:11:55

And you could be a pastor you could be an elder a deacon you could be the leader in a parachurch organization

01:12:02

Absolutely free of charge you're going to be leaving that event with hundreds of dollars worth of free books that have been donated by nearly every single major Christian publisher in the

01:12:12

United States and the United Kingdom and That's between 20 and 30 books You'll be leaving there with absolutely free brand new books that I have selected from these major publishers who have sent me a hundred copies of each book

01:12:27

I Selected from them specifically for men in leadership who are attending this event and Of course, you'll be getting free food and everything else.

01:12:37

There is free My late wife Julie who began these luncheons in the 1990s

01:12:42

Insisted that there never ever be anything for sale there or any ulterior motive that this is just a time of rest relaxation fun fellowship and edification for Ministers of the gospel and the leaders in Christian ministry, so please if you want to attend

01:13:00

Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com and put in the subject line

01:13:05

I want to attend the iron sharpens iron pastors luncheon or just put iron sharpens iron pastors luncheon and Dr.

01:13:12

Costa will be speaking after he leaves, Pennsylvania from Friday The 24th of May through Sunday the 26th of May he will be speaking at various churches on Long Island one including the

01:13:25

New Hyde Park Baptist Church in Western Nassau County, Long Island and also the

01:13:32

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Central Suffolk County at Long Island and there may be a couple of others added to the

01:13:38

Speaking itinerary that we are still working on and I will give you more details on those speaking engagements as they come to me

01:13:44

Then coming up after that immediately after that We have the East Coast ministers conference being conducted by the banner of truth

01:13:52

I will be attending that God willing at the Elizabethtown College and Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania That's May 28th through the 30th.

01:14:00

The theme is I believe in the Holy Spirit Speakers include Jeff Kingswood Terry Johnson David Vaughn who's a

01:14:07

Reformed Baptist missionary in France? Stephen J. Nichols the president of Reformation Bible College the college founded by the late

01:14:13

RC Sproul and Ligonier ministries Michael Morales and Chad Vegas and by the way, Chad Vegas is going to be our guest

01:14:20

God willing this Monday April I'm sorry. I misspoke. That's a week from this

01:14:25

Monday April 8th Chad will be on in fact, we have I Believe all of the speakers lined up to be on iron sharpens iron radio before May 28th

01:14:36

If you would like to register for this event go to banner of truth org banner of truth org click on events and then click on East Coast ministers conference

01:14:45

There are other conferences there that are in different parts of the United States and the world as Specifically the

01:14:53

United Kingdom. So if you are closer to those areas we do have listeners both on the west coast of The United States and in the

01:15:00

United Kingdom if you prefer going to those events click on those events instead But if I will be personally going to the

01:15:07

East Coast ministers conference So I hope to see many of you in the iron sharpens iron radio audience there another conference where I plan to attend

01:15:14

I'm already registered is the foundation's conference a conference sponsored by sermon audio .com

01:15:19

I love this conference and I go as often as I hear about it December 19th and 20th in the heart of New York City, Manhattan And there are some really powerful preachers on the roster at this conference as well

01:15:35

Dr. Steven J Lawson who you heard moments ago Advertising the New Covenant Church NYC one of our sponsors

01:15:42

He is the founder of one passion ministries and has become well known as the one of the most powerful preachers alive today

01:15:48

Another one who would be in that same category Paul Washer has been added to the lineup there at the foundation's conference

01:15:58

Reverend Jeff Thomas who is preaching. I so love and look forward to hearing him preach again

01:16:03

He is a retired pastor from Wales and is one of my favorite preachers are Armin Tomasian Another extraordinary preacher of the gospel a young man who has gifts and wisdom far beyond his age

01:16:17

And I'm sure he's going to be a household name amongst reformed Christians within the next decade What a powerful preacher

01:16:24

Reverend Armin Tomasian is Richard Caldwell jr I have not heard before I'm looking forward to hearing from We're hearing him speak for the first time and also

01:16:32

Andrew Quigley I have never heard before I'm looking forward to that those speaking engagements that he has at the

01:16:38

Foundation conference for more details go to the foundations conference comm make sure you put the in there or you'll get an entirely different website the foundations conference comm and I would register as quickly as you can because even though the event is not until December 19th

01:16:57

It is a small venue only holding about 200 people. So they will fill up quickly. No doubt

01:17:02

So the foundations conference comm last but not least if you love iron sharpens iron radio, you don't want us to disappear from the airwaves

01:17:11

Please go to iron sharpens iron radio comm click support then click click to donate now

01:17:16

You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card We truly rely upon your generosity to remain in existence the generosity of our

01:17:25

Donation those that donate in our audience in addition to those who purchase advertising Without those we will not continue to air our program

01:17:34

We will not be able to so please go to iron sharpens iron radio comm click support Then click click to donate now

01:17:41

If you prefer snail mail an address will appear on the screen where you can mail checks may payable to iron sharpens iron radio

01:17:46

I thank all of you who have already done that and who regularly do it some of you once or twice a month

01:17:52

Donate very generously to us and we thank God for you If you want to advertise on the program, send me an email to Chris Arnsen at gmail .com

01:18:01

Chris Arnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in a subject line if you Want one thing

01:18:06

I'd like to remind you of please never ever Siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church that you're accustomed to in order to give to iron sharpens iron radio

01:18:15

Never do that Never put your family in financial jeopardy By giving to iron sharpens iron radio. Those two things are commands of God providing for church and home

01:18:23

Providing for iron sharpens iron radio is not obviously a command of God but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands and please spend as much as you can and Spend as frequently as you can on donations to iron sharpens iron radio so that we can remain in existence if you do not have a church home and you're not

01:18:44

Prayerfully seeking for one you are living in rebellion against God So, please rectify that situation. I have Lists of churches that are faithful to the scriptures all over the world.

01:18:53

In fact, I just got Recently, in fact yesterday an email from one of our listeners who is vacationing in the state of Washington and asked for a

01:19:03

Biblically sound church near Forks, Washington and I sent them details and I have regularly gotten people all over the world

01:19:10

Churches near them that are biblically faithful that that many have visited and some have joined but if you could send me an email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com

01:19:20

and put I need a church home or something similar in the subject line. I will help you find a church and God willing

01:19:26

I will Now we are back to our conversation with our guest today. Tim Geiger on Gender sexuality and what it means to be human

01:19:36

Tim Geiger is the president of harvest USA and he's also an elder in the

01:19:41

PCA Denomination if you would like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com

01:19:48

Chris ARN z n at gmail .com as always Please give us your first name at least

01:19:54

Your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA only remain anonymous

01:20:00

If your question involves a personal and private matter as you know

01:20:05

Tim I forwarded you two of the Listener questions that have come in and I'll start with those before I go to the others we have

01:20:17

Susan and so talk at Long Island, New York and Susan says hi several months ago

01:20:23

Christianity Today magazine had an article by a woman who had been a practicing lesbian And had become a

01:20:29

Christian. I wonder if she's referring to Rosario Butterfield who I've had on this program I think

01:20:34

I've read that article several times because it was so profound What she concluded was this

01:20:40

Jesus Christ did an amazing sacrificial loving thing for a lowly sinner like her

01:20:45

She felt the least she could do was trust him because she trusted him

01:20:50

She believed him and because she believed him and believed in who he was The Savior she knew she had to obey

01:21:00

It was disobedience that led her out of the lifestyle and into a loving marriage with a man and a child

01:21:06

She said she will always have the priest that pre predisposition in her much like an alcoholic might still want to drink but knows that In obedience to God he cannot and should not the same was for her

01:21:20

But that that I think that would separate her from Rosario Butterfield. I don't think that that would be her

01:21:27

The same was for her what struck me as So deep was that it's all about obedience.

01:21:33

Does this sound like something you would agree with? Susan in he's to talk at Long Island Nothing in words,

01:21:42

I would say it's about obedience, but it's all about What the

01:21:48

Lord is doing in in that person's life, so It's not

01:21:55

Unusual at all for someone who struggles with any pattern of historic sin

01:22:00

To be tempted to to be drawn back into that same pattern of sin

01:22:06

Even after they begin walking in repentance So You know,

01:22:12

I did to Susan's point it does involve obedience because what that person has to be willing to say in that moment is

01:22:20

No, because of what Christ has done for me. I am NOT going to turn back to that old pattern of Sin because I know that in Christ I have something far better Obedience is is far better than whatever.

01:22:36

I might gain through sin and Resting in the identity that I have in my

01:22:41

Lord is far better than any identity. I could get for myself through engaging in this sin to to your point

01:22:49

Chris before the the break maybe You know even around the halfway point of the first hour

01:22:55

We talked about the degrees to which same -sex Sin is different from heterosexual sin.

01:23:01

And I think this is one of those those ways because so frequently someone who engages in same -sex sin finds a sense of personal identity and finds a sense of community and finds a sense of of Acceptance in that sin in ways that perhaps

01:23:25

People who struggle with other patterns of sin might not and so that's one of the particular ways in which a same -sex struggler might be enticed to to fall back into temptation because when they feel alone they might turn back to Same -sex sin as an easy way to feel part of a community if they feel

01:23:53

Unaffirmed they might fall back into same -sex sin as an easy way to feel Like they're validated and affirmed by someone of the same gender so I think same -sex strugglers

01:24:09

Deal with those those temptations in perhaps different ways Than folks who struggle with other kinds of sin patterns but I think the principle of us returning to our vomit is

01:24:26

Is pretty standard and and we should actively Fight against it as we walk in repentance.

01:24:33

One of the things we talked about at Harvest USA is this connotation of proactive accountability

01:24:40

So often in the church Accountability is just confession of sin where one person goes to another and says

01:24:49

Here look what I've done Pray for me But I think from scripture accountability is meant to be linked to discipleship and it's meant to be linked to living transparently and humbly within the body so that other people will help you realize how you're prone to sin in the first place and Will actually get in the way of you falling into temptation and into sin to begin with and so Particularly for for folks who struggle with with same -sex in or heterosexual sin.

01:25:26

I would encourage them To engage in this notion of proactive accountability

01:25:32

Where others help them proactively fight against that sin in the first place? And if if your listeners want a free resource about that, they can email me

01:25:44

At info at harvest USA org and we'll be happy to send them a PDF of Of a booklet called proactive accountability one thing that concerned me about Susan's email.

01:25:58

I don't know if she was Correctly quoting this woman whoever this woman is if she was accurately quoting the woman.

01:26:06

I don't believe at all It was Rosaria Butterfield But as I initially thought was the possibility when

01:26:12

I start first sort of reading the question, but she said About this woman. She said she will always have

01:26:19

That predisposition in her much like an alcoholic Might still want to drink

01:26:27

I Am I'm very opposed to that mindset because once again to me it is a denial of the transforming power of the

01:26:36

Holy Spirit Not that as we were saying earlier that that a person who was involved in homosexual activity will automatically or even definitely become

01:26:48

Heterosexually attracted after their regenerate they may be totally neutral on it and so on But to give up and wave the white flag like that and say

01:26:58

I will always be in a predisposition to have homosexual

01:27:03

Attractions that to me is is I think problematic and dangerous actually I'm just to let you know something about myself.

01:27:11

I am someone who was seriously involved in a high level of Drunkenness I was sober.

01:27:19

I was sober for 18 years when I came to Christ and then After that 18 year period of sobriety

01:27:27

I fell back into it in a big way Perhaps even perhaps even in a more dangerous and Scandalous way than I did before I was saved.

01:27:39

I guess it would have been more scandalous because I was a professing Christian But one of the things that I object to alcoholics anonymous over and there are a number of things including saying that a

01:27:51

Table can be my higher power Is the notion that I have to constantly address myself as an alcoholic

01:27:58

I do not believe that I do not put myself into the temptation of Backsliding by by consuming

01:28:06

Alcohol with my friends and brothers and sisters in Christ who can moderately and responsibly drink alcohol

01:28:12

I never will drink alcohol again, but at the same time I don't walk around and say hi

01:28:17

I'm Chris Arns, and I'm an alcoholic just like I think it's wrong for Christians to say Hi, I'm Bill or Sue and I am a homosexual or gay

01:28:25

Christian What is your response to what I just said about Susan's inclusion of that That that possible accurate quote of the woman in the article who said

01:28:35

I will always have that predisposition Yeah, and I don't know what that woman meant by predisposition

01:28:44

So I I completely agree with you Chris That it is inappropriate for a

01:28:50

Christian particularly a mature Christian to identify themselves with a pattern of sin So I You know when when?

01:29:00

Men come into and I work Primarily with men we we have men working with men women working with women typically at harvest

01:29:09

But when men come in and they're struggling with a pattern of Sexual addiction and and they bring in you know some version of the addicts

01:29:22

Bible and You know they they identify themselves as being an addict and they're always going to be an addict

01:29:28

I I confront them on that right away because you know actually in Christ You're a new creation and the things that defined you in the past no longer define you and so it's completely inconsistent with Being a mature

01:29:42

Christian to say I am a gay or lesbian Christian that said

01:29:49

I Think we need to show a certain amount of patience with our

01:29:57

Brothers and sisters who not only struggle with same -sex attraction, but with heterosexual lust Realizing that the ways in which we've given ourselves over to sin in the past Will likely tempt us again in the future now

01:30:13

I Encourage strongly strongly encourage those men and women to To use the resources that they have in Christ just to fight against that Temptation and to overcome it and scripture says that is appropriate that is completely appropriate

01:30:33

For the believer to experience temptation and to overcome it

01:30:39

You know like like God warns Cain in Genesis 4 where he says temptation is crouching it.

01:30:48

I'm sorry sin is crouching at your door, but you must master it That's what we're called to do and what we're given the power and the authority to do in Christ but the reality is that sometimes

01:31:01

We'll be tempted to sin in the ways that we've sinned historically And you know

01:31:06

I experience that temptation from time to time especially when When the same idols that I experienced 20 years ago come back up things like loneliness or or a lack of affirmation or feeling stressed and It's incumbent upon me in those moments to take advantage of the resources that are mine in Christ In order to do battle against that that temptation and to prevail over sin

01:31:36

Okay now we have oh by the way, thank you Susan and to talk at Long Island and Hope that you attend the

01:31:46

The speaking engagement by dr. Tony Costa at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Long Island in quorum, which is very close to Satoka on May 26th so Hope to see you there

01:31:58

And please invite as many folks as possible to attend that event at Hope Reform Baptist Church and by the way

01:32:04

While I'm speaking about that wonderful congregation their website is hope reformed li .net

01:32:11

hope reformed li standing for Long Island .net hope reformed li .net now we have our anonymous

01:32:18

Listener who says hi Chris, please. Thank your guest for his openness and honesty and such a sensitive topic

01:32:24

I'm happy to hear that you are able to repent and show fruit of Returning from your sinful behavior and habits and allow

01:32:32

God to change your life You called it idolatry and I believe you are correct It is worshiping lust which has repercussions on oneself and one's family

01:32:43

St. Paul says to flee from sexual immorality all other sins a person commits are outside the body

01:32:51

But whoever sins sexually sins against their own body 1st Corinthians chapter 6 verse 18

01:32:57

It is most definitely sinning against one's own body and hence it leads to a downward spiral and all time low of depression and self -rejection and the buzz again on lifting one out of all that by the same destructive habit

01:33:13

I Know this firsthand as I lived with my husband for about eight years

01:33:19

He calls himself a Christian who was addicted to pornography from the start and I told

01:33:26

Let's see from the start and told me he worshipped a demon of lust Wow, I Didn't understand at the time what he was talking about But the darkness that followed and the violence attached to it destroyed my life and my child's

01:33:41

He lived and breathed pornography and the rejection that I received had no words to describe

01:33:46

What I went through he was willing to let me and his child go for the pleasure

01:33:52

He got from porn and masturbation as you mentioned his background was what you are speaking about and hence

01:34:00

I felt sorry for him, but to my own detriment It is a very serious sin that destroys family

01:34:06

So this seems to be much more commentary than question, but if you could comment on her commentary yeah, and I agree for my sister because she and her child have evidently

01:34:22

Been Just tremendously sinned against and I can't even pretend to know the ways in which she was impacted by that You know

01:34:32

Chris, this goes back to what we were saying earlier that sexual sin Is unique because of what

01:34:40

Paul says there in 1st Corinthians 6 That when we sin Sexually we sin against our own body.

01:34:47

We we not only make it more difficult to Enjoy the intimacy that comes in marriage and I don't even mean just sexual intimacy

01:34:57

I mean the the being one flesh in every respect but you know in 1st

01:35:03

Corinthians 6 Paul makes this this Connection between being one flesh with your spouse and being one spirit with Christ and And it becomes more difficult to become one spirit with Christ as well

01:35:20

And so you can't continue to give yourself over to sexual sin and not have it impact the way in which

01:35:28

You experience Christ not only is as Lord, but as as your spiritual husband there's a certain amount of intimacy a certain amount of of Passion if you want to call it that that you lack in your relationship with him

01:35:46

And so it's it's very sad to hear what happened in this woman's Marriage, but it's not surprising and that is one of the reasons why the church needs to be so aggressive in talking about the reality of sexual sin in the church and And the need for people who are struggling to come forward and talk about it

01:36:06

You know if I could just launch off of something in this sister's A Statement in her email there are so many women in churches today who?

01:36:21

Are in a situation similar to what this woman has gone through where they know that there's something wrong in their relationship with their husband

01:36:30

They they know that he's struggling with pornography. They know that he's lusting after other women

01:36:37

And they don't know what to do about it They don't know how to ask for help and and to those women.

01:36:45

I would encourage them To reach out to the elders in your church to to reach out if the elders don't seem

01:36:54

Approachable about these things reach out to one of the women's ministry leaders in your church and have them go with you to the elders

01:37:00

To talk about this don't continue to struggle alone God has given us the church in order that it would be a means to bring unrepentant people to repentance and You know don't don't allow

01:37:19

Your husband's sin to not only destroy your marriage, but it sounds like to destroy

01:37:28

What the Lord would do through your marriage to to bless your family as well?

01:37:36

Well, thanks anonymous. Keep listening to iron sharpens iron radio and spreading the word about the program wherever you are and beyond and now

01:37:44

We're going to our final break which is going to be a lot shorter than the last one if you have a question That you would like to ask there are a few people still waiting to have their questions asked and answered

01:37:54

But if you'd like to get in line Then please do so do so quickly because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:37:59

Our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com

01:38:05

Please give us as always your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the USA Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

01:38:15

Don't go away We'll be right back with Tim Geiger after these messages Every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile institutions coffee shops and local hangouts

01:38:33

Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959

01:38:56

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement

01:39:01

To youths in need all over the country and around the world help honor our history by becoming a part of our future

01:39:09

Volunteer donate pray or all of the above for details call Long Island Youth for Christ at six three one three eight five eight three three three that's six three one three eight five eight three three three or visit

01:39:25

Liy fc .org That's Liy fc .org

01:39:35

My name is Steve Lawson founder and president of one passion ministries as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier ministries

01:39:42

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Masters Seminary in Los Angeles I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students

01:39:51

Andy Woodard serves as the pastor It's called New Covenant Church NYC They are a

01:39:57

Reformed Baptist Church that meets in Midtown Manhattan. You can find their service times and location on their website which is www .ncc

01:40:07

.nyc They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel

01:40:15

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching in New York City I'd like to recommend that you visit

01:40:24

New Covenant Church NYC Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

01:40:31

.nyc Have a great day Thriving financial is not your typical financial services provider as a membership organization

01:40:41

We help Christians be wise with money and live generously every day And for the fourth year in a row

01:40:47

We were named one of the world's most ethical companies by the ethosphere Institute a leading international think -tank dedicated to the creation advancement and sharing of best practices in business ethics

01:41:00

Contact me Mike Gallagher financial consultant at 7 1 7 2 5 4 6 4 3 3

01:41:07

Again, 7 1 7 2 5 4 6 4 3 3 to learn more about the thriving difference

01:41:15

We were made for so much more than ordinary life

01:41:21

Lending faith, finances, and generosity. That's the Thriving story

01:41:29

We were made to thrive Lynbrook Baptist Church on 225

01:41:40

Earl Avenue in Lynbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century

01:41:45

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant

01:41:52

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing

01:42:00

We're a diverse family of all ages Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ In fellowship, play, and together

01:42:06

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Lynbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be

01:42:13

Call Lynbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402 That's 516 -599 -9402

01:42:20

Or visit lynbrookbaptist .org That's lynbrookbaptist .org Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said

01:42:29

Give yourself unto reading The man who never reads will never be read

01:42:34

He who never quotes will never be quoted He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains

01:42:40

Proves he has no brains of his own You need to read Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the

01:42:49

Prince of Preachers to heart The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future

01:42:57

And to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world Since its beginning in 2001,

01:43:04

Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting books for all ages We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com

01:43:14

That's solid -ground -books .com And see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in the churches of our

01:43:47

Lord Jesus Christ Need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture And even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ Our churches and our people need to be well -grounded in these truths

01:44:07

Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people

01:44:15

If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org

01:44:25

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio I would like to introduce you to my good friends

01:44:32

Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS Which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service Todd and Patty specialize in supplying

01:44:40

Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone Since 1987, the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available

01:44:51

Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available

01:45:00

Because frankly, much of what is being printed is not worth your time That means you can get to the good stuff faster

01:45:06

It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and otherwise faith -insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors

01:45:16

Their website is cvbbs .com Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work in service to you, the church, and to Christ That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at cvbbs .com

01:45:35

That's cvbbs .com Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio Listening to Christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually

01:46:04

Even many of the major Christian networks that include excellent, biblically faithful teachers on their lineup

01:46:10

Sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics If you are a lover of the doctrines of sovereign grace

01:46:18

You need not fear listening 24 hours a day to FirstLoveRadio .org

01:46:23

They feature Christ -centered programming from Reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological soundness and biblical faithfulness

01:46:31

Such as Dr. W .R. Downing, Dr. Peter Masters, Pastor Joe Jackowitz, Pastor Robert Gifford, Al Martin, Edward Delcor, and more

01:46:42

FirstLoveRadio .org also live streams my Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio program daily

01:46:48

Please stick around on FirstLoveRadio .org after Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio is over To continue being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the gospel of sovereign grace

01:46:58

Spread the word about FirstLoveRadio .org Welcome back, this is

01:47:12

Chris Arnzen If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the entirety of the program has been

01:47:18

And will continue to be for the next 15 minutes or so Tim Geiger, President of Harvest USA We have been discussing gender, sexuality, and what it means to be human

01:47:26

Which is also the theme of the upcoming conference When I say upcoming, I mean really quickly

01:47:33

Because it's starting in just about two hours or so tonight Continuing through tomorrow

01:47:38

That is gender, sexuality, and what it means to be human The Blue Ridge Bible Conference at Covenant Presbyterian Church in Harrisonburg, Virginia Tonight and tomorrow,

01:47:51

March 29th and the 30th Featuring our guests Tim Geiger, Todd Pruitt, and Carl Truman For more details go to AllianceNet .org

01:47:58

AllianceNet .org Click on events and scroll down to gender, sexuality, and what it means to be human

01:48:03

And obviously this would be primarily for those living close to Harrisonburg, Virginia Since the event starts tonight

01:48:11

Tim, we have a brief follow -up statement from the anonymous listener

01:48:19

Who just wrote in before our last break The anonymous listener says

01:48:26

I went to the elders and they said it was my fault This is the physical and emotional abuse from her ex -husband

01:48:35

I went to the women and their husbands took them away from me

01:48:40

And I was left alone with absolutely no help in my church Chris, that just grieves my heart

01:48:47

That is not the way that Christ's church is supposed to work So yeah, my heart just goes out to that woman

01:48:56

And I would say that to women who find themselves in similar circumstances

01:49:05

First of all, pray to be able to forgive your elders and your church leadership

01:49:13

But then perhaps a step you could go Would be to reach out to either another church

01:49:22

Or to a parachurch organization like Harvest USA We view ourselves not as a substitute for the local church

01:49:31

But we can provide some help And part of what we do is we help individuals and families

01:49:38

Who are impacted by sexual sin To develop support systems within their local church

01:49:44

So often what we'll do is we'll try to help Folks who are impacted by sexual sin

01:49:51

To develop a support system With their women's ministry leaders or with their elders

01:49:59

Through training them Thank you Anonymous And we do have

01:50:05

Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania Who says, earlier on in the very beginning of the program

01:50:12

I believe I heard your guest use the phrase gay To describe people involved in homosexual desire or activity

01:50:20

I personally do not approve of that kind of language Because I think it is a candy coating of a horrific sin

01:50:29

It to me would be like calling a drunkard a wine connoisseur

01:50:35

Can your guest reply to this? I don't mean to be insulting But I think that it can be serious

01:50:42

To give soft, likable words to things that are an abomination to God Hopefully your listener doesn't believe that I was trying to sugar coat

01:50:58

Someone who struggles with same -sex attraction As someone who himself has struggled with same -sex attraction

01:51:07

And seen the train wreck that it makes And as someone who has worked with hundreds of people

01:51:13

Also dealing with same -sex attraction And seeing the damage that that's caused

01:51:19

I certainly don't intend to make light of it at all It's simply the term that is used in the dialogue about same -sex attraction today

01:51:33

People in the church today who are same -sex attracted Would tend to call themselves gay

01:51:38

Christians So it's just a modern term that is not meant to alleviate any of the weightiness

01:51:48

Or the severity of the sin involved But didn't you, correct me if I'm wrong,

01:51:54

I believe you said That you don't approve of using the term gay Christian Because it's a sign... Oh yeah, I don't believe it is appropriate for a

01:52:05

Christian To call themselves a gay Christian You had Rosaria Butterfield on your program previously

01:52:12

One of the things that she says that is quite helpful

01:52:17

Is that you can't use an adjective to modify a noun Without limiting the meaning of the noun

01:52:25

And so if you call yourself a gay Christian What you're saying is there's a part of my life Which is off limits to the sanctifying work of the

01:52:34

Holy Spirit There's a part of my life that God will never change And I think that that is incredibly sinful

01:52:42

Right, and I don't know if our guest, not our guest Our listener was specifically referring to the phrase gay

01:52:50

Christian He just said gay because there are people who use that term to describe Even those that are outside of professed

01:52:59

Christendom Who are enemies openly of Christianity Who use that term as well, gay

01:53:05

And there is disagreement amongst Christians Whether it should ever be used

01:53:11

I can agree with that to an extent But I've also come to realize that the term

01:53:17

Almost exclusively in our day and age Means something connected to homosexuality It no longer means happy I know that Dean Martin sang about a gay tarantella

01:53:27

And that's a more and there are other things from the past Where people use that term just to mean happy And the life of the party and all that kind of thing

01:53:39

But today people are typically not going to use the word gay When writing modern songs or literature

01:53:49

That does not involve a connection to homosexuality It's almost been taken over if you will

01:53:57

Well it has, and it's just another example Chris Of how Satan has manipulated culture

01:54:04

In order to make something that is otherwise

01:54:11

An innocent term, something that is Something that connotes evil

01:54:17

So you know the entire appropriation of the rainbow You know as a symbol of the covenant

01:54:24

That God made with Noah You know now is meant to symbolize

01:54:31

The gay life and gay community The term queer, which up until I don't know, 30 or 40 years ago

01:54:39

Meant strange or unusual Is now a badge of honor that's applied to People in the

01:54:44

LGBT life Not so long ago it was considered offensive by them But now they use it for their own people group

01:54:51

Or their own sin I should say I should not call it a people group But for their own sin they are using that Themselves as a badge of honor

01:55:00

That's right, that's right You know and that's quite honestly One of the battles that we face

01:55:07

Entering, not entering But being a part of this conversation With the church and with the culture

01:55:13

Because the nomenclature keeps changing It's as though the words that we used 10 years ago

01:55:25

The folks you're engaged with In conversations today in the culture They're speaking a different language

01:55:31

And you know it's not always Right to do this

01:55:37

But it's necessary In order to have a conversation with them To use the language

01:55:43

That they've chosen to understand I for one try not to use it

01:55:49

As often as I can And as often as I can remember I'll usually say something like Those involved in same -sex attraction

01:55:55

Thought or deed or something like that I know it takes longer to say that Yep But I just try to avoid giving any kind of Sound of approval for it

01:56:06

Or softening of it Thank you Arnie We don't have time for any other listeners So I'd like Tim to summarize

01:56:14

What you most want etched in the hearts and minds Of our listeners today Over the next two minutes So first of all

01:56:21

Chris Thank you for giving me the opportunity To be a part of your program And part of your listeners' day

01:56:29

What I would hope that they would hear Is that there are people

01:56:37

In the church today Who are struggling with all kinds Of sexual sin issues

01:56:43

A lot of those folks Are struggling secretly Because just like I did 20 and 30 and 40 years ago

01:56:53

They don't want the people around them to know Because they're so ashamed Of what they're doing

01:56:59

They're so fearful of what would happen If their sin became publicly exposed

01:57:05

And so pray, first of all That the Lord would bring

01:57:10

Sexual strugglers Who are struggling secretly In your churches

01:57:16

Out into the open And pray that there would be Safe people in your churches

01:57:22

To come around them And to help them walk In faith and repentance

01:57:27

And pray that the Lord would give them The grace and the strength And the perseverance

01:57:34

In order to find freedom From the bondage to those sins Because freedom is theirs

01:57:41

If they are truly in Christ This is an area, Chris, where I think That the church is being called

01:57:48

To stand up And to not waver on its position That what

01:57:54

God calls sin is sin And, you know, we cannot

01:58:00

Pave in to what the culture Or certain camps in the church would say

01:58:06

And that is We have to tone down our sin Sinful language

01:58:13

And make it something A little less offensive People are dying Spiritually and physically

01:58:20

Because of sin And we in the church Need to help them

01:58:26

To walk in repentance And find life in Christ Amen, and don't forget, folks Harvestusa .org

01:58:33

Harvestusa .org is the website For Harvest USA Where our guest,

01:58:38

Tim Geiger Is the president I want to thank you so much For being a part of our program today, Tim And I hope that you return as a guest

01:58:44

On Iron Trip and Zion Radio I hope everybody listening Has a safe and blessed And joyful weekend

01:58:50

And Lord's Day And I hope you all always remember For the rest of your lives That Jesus Christ Is a far greater