What to Look for in a Church

Conversations That Matter

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Welcome to the Conversations That Matter podcast. My name is John Harris. Hopefully a short episode today.

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I always say that and it always ends up being an hour when I say it, but I don't have that luxury. I have to actually be somewhere pretty soon, like 45 minutes, so we're gonna keep it short, but it's important.

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I wrote a little blog today to answer the question that some people have about what should I do? I'm looking for a church.

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What criteria should I use to look? And so I gave you, I pulled out some seven biblical principles and just practical things as well, and I'm gonna share with you some of my experience and some practical things, and hopefully it'll help you find a church or realize that there is no church in your area, so you gotta move or you need to start your own, as the case may be, or it might inspire you that you need to leave the church you're in.

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I'm not sure, or you'll just feel really good about the church that you're in because it meets these seven criteria, if you wanna call them that.

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But this is something that's very practical to me because I've traveled around a bit and I've been a part of many churches.

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I've been members of, what, five different churches, four different, trying to remember, five, six, a bunch, and I've attended more than that, and so this is something

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I've had to think through, and so hopefully it helps you out. Now, before I get there, I do have a quick announcement.

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On March 11th, March 11th, 2021, at 7 p .m., if you are in the

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Naples, Florida area, around there, and you wanna see me, you wanna meet me in person, I will be at an event at the

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Naples Grande, 475 Seagate Drive in Naples, Florida. I'll be at an event there for enemies within the church where there's gonna be some, they're gonna talk about the film, some of the producers, and they've asked me to share a few words on this.

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I'm down there to be interviewed for what I understand is their final interview,

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I think, their final round of interviews before they're going to put the film together, but it's an event for information and raising funds,

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I guess. So anyway, I will be there if you wanna meet me there. So that's at March 11th, 2021, 7 o 'clock p .m.

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at the Naples Grande, 475 Seagate Drive in Naples, Florida, 34103.

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You can find the info in the info section for this video. There you go. Now let's talk about churches.

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So the church search function that we're creating is hopefully gonna help, at theserningchristians .com,

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people at least narrow down some of their options, and I realize there's not a lot of churches on there yet, but that'll change.

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I would encourage you to get a profile on that today if you're a pastor or you know of a church that meets the qualifications and you have the permission of the church, put those churches on discerningchristians .com

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as well. I put a tutorial out, which I'll put in the info section as well for how to do that.

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But this has been a persisting, an issue for a while for many people, especially since COVID and the social justice stuff came about.

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So I'm going to read you some of this. In fact, maybe what I'll do is

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I'll blow it up some for you so you can see what I'm looking at here. If I can blow this up, yeah,

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I think I can. Here we go. So what to look for in a church.

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Over the years, I've had the privilege of attending and becoming a member of a number of unique churches around the country.

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All of them have their own little differences depending on local customs, leadership personalities, and other exterior factors.

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Some have had more serious unspoken theological differences I did not see immediately.

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I've had the privilege of meeting wonderful pastors and sometimes pastors whom I thought were wonderful only to find out they did not meet the qualifications laid down in 1

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Timothy 3 and Titus 1. I've often compared finding a church to dating. Sometimes people know he or she is the one after a few weeks, other times it takes months.

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If it takes over a year of dedicated dating, you probably have your answer, though you may not want to face it.

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And sorry, guys, I know some of you, some of you took offense at that probably. That's the key word there is dedicated, just so you know.

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Sometimes it does take longer than a year, but if you're dedicated and you're, if you know what there is to know about this person and you're still on the fence, you have your answer.

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Anyway, just as in dating, a decision to commit to a church may be informed by a range of experiences and information.

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And while there's no foolproof way to ensure a church is biblical after a few weeks attendance, there are some general principles, both scripture and wisdom dictate are helpful in making such an important decision.

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Below are seven factors I try to examine whenever I'm considering joining a church. The questions that accompany them are meant to help laymen determine whether or not the church they're thinking of joining meets basic biblical standards.

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Just as no spouse is perfect, neither is any church, but some fundamental commitments must be in place in order to make the both relationships work.

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Here are the seven things I look for. Number one, orthodox theology. And here's some questions.

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I've accompanied three questions in each category so you have a way to figure out whether or not the church meets these standards.

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What does their statement of faith communicate? So that's the first, you wanna look at their statement of faith before you even join the church, look at what they believe.

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A lot of churches don't follow their statement of faith, but at least it's a starting point, right? Do the leaders take it seriously?

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So this takes some time. You gotta get to know the leaders a little bit and see if they take their statement of faith seriously.

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Are they compromised by false teaching which undermines their statement of faith? And I'll give you an example. This is one of the frustrations with which the social justice movement is.

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You have these great statements of faith about the inerrancy of scripture, the reliability of scripture, efficiency of it.

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And then they adopt standpoint epistemology from the woke movement or social justice, critical theories, et cetera.

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And they get rid of the idea that there's some kind of revelation that is accessible to everyone equally that's rooted in reality.

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They deny objectivity. And so if you deny objectivity, you destroy revelation.

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And that's why they're all busy about like, let's find the lens of some oppressed group to be able to understand what the

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Bible is really saying. Well, you can have a great robust faith statement about the inerrancy of scripture, but you just undermine it.

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You just undermine it. Because you may believe it's inerrant, but what good does that do you?

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It's not sufficient apparently either because you can't really approach it. It's veiled.

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The meaning of it's veiled from you in some way because you're white or straight or male or whatever the case may be.

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So that's just one example. There's a lot of other examples of that where you have a good statement of faith, but then there's a lot of good things in it, but it's maybe too general.

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And so pastors teaching, I mean, in my opinion, for me, I wouldn't go to a church where the pastor was teaching that you could somehow reconcile

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Darwinism with the creation account or something like that. Some churches have good statement of faith.

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I went to a seminary. I'll tell you, I went to a seminary with a pretty decent statement of faith. I had two professors

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I know of, three professors I know of there were doing just that. So there you go.

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But so that's number one. Orthodox theology. Now, this is when you're dating someone, oftentimes, if you can look at their social media profile and you can see what they wanna portray themselves as, and then you have to get to know them to see, okay, is this who you are?

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So it's similar in that way, I guess. Number two, dedication to discipleship.

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This is very important. Matthew 28, obviously the Great Commission, that's a primary purpose of the church to go and make disciples.

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So are they busy doing that? Do they have older men training younger men, older women training younger women?

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Now, I don't think your church necessarily has to have like an official program. I mean, the church that I spent the most time of my life in did have that and it was great to have that.

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But does it happen organically? Do they pace a priority on it? That's the real question.

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Is it actually happening? Is that what the church is about? If it's not, then you get a question, are you at a church even?

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Because that's what the church is supposed to do. So is it easy to form relationships? That's a question I ask.

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Is it easy to form relationships there? If it's really hard, if people are unfriendly, that's a huge barrier to discipleship.

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That's not a place that you can even have discipleship. So that would be a big problem. Are there both young and old serving in various ministries?

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Look for that. Sometimes there's churches where the young people are kept out of various ministries so the old people have control, or sometimes now vice versa.

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The old people are, they're not hip and cool and don't relate so, in the minds of some.

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So that's a problem too. You need both. Do people naturally get closer outside of formal church settings?

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This is big for me. You go to a church where everyone shows up on Sunday and then they leave, and it's hard to form relationships and you don't really ever do anything outside the church.

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And the church doesn't really help that. Maybe they don't really do potlucks or men's retreats or, you know, if all the activities of the church are you gotta show up and listen to a lecture or they're not interactive in that way, you're not doing prayer meetings and stuff where it's broken up into small groups and you actually get to know people, that kind of thing.

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Then, for me, that's kind of like, in a way, a deal breaker. And it takes sometimes a little bit of time to figure out whether a church is like that.

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But I don't think you can long -term stay at a place like that. And have your soul fed. Because that's kind of like, that's the purpose.

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It's not just getting a lecture. You can go online and you can get lectures. Now, of course, there's a difference there.

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Preaching, there's a special thing going on, obviously. The Holy Spirit's at work in that. And the pastor's tailoring his preaching for his congregation.

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So I'm not saying it's just like online. But what I'm saying is, though, there needs to be more than that.

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There needs to be beyond that. There needs to be the one -on -one. There needs to be, even

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Jesus, right? He had his inner circle. He had then the 12, which were his outer circle.

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And then he had even a bigger outer circle with the people that followed him, the hundreds that followed him. But you can only invest in so many people.

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So there should be a lot of people that are investing in a lot of people. Now, not every church has this perfectly.

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Probably no church has it perfectly. So you just wanna see, is the desire there? Is it possible?

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Is it, are people friendly there? Are you able to do that? Maybe that's something that you can be part of implementing if it's not really there in the way it should be.

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But at least make that a category of assessment. Number three, commitment to using the full spectrum of gifts represented in the congregation.

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And of course, 1 Corinthians 13, Romans 12, 1 Timothy 4, are there unnecessary barriers to serving?

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This is a question you gotta ask. Because the church, the gifts in the church, in the body, are for the edification of the church.

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If you don't have the gifts being present and they're functioning, then it's like going without a liver, going without an eye.

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That's what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 12. So you wanna make sure that people who have gifts are able to use their gifts.

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And everyone has a gift, or two, or three, or however many the Holy Spirit has given. And there needs to be a way to figure out what your gifts are.

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There's no way to even get involved in any kind of ministry to figure out what your gifts are. And there's barriers to that.

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You gotta go through, I don't know. You gotta have a seminary degree to even try to teach or something.

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Well, that's a problem. That's a real problem. You don't wanna be at a church like that, that has, that won't, that precludes people from using their gifts.

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Now, obviously, you gotta get to know people. They gotta kind of know who you are. But you have got to be able to use your gift.

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And you gotta have other people ministering to you using their gifts. So are there unnecessary barriers to serving?

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Are there certain ministries purposely dismissed or non -existent, or diminished or non -existent? This is a good question.

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Sometimes churches, there should be evangelism going on. There isn't evangelism going on. There should be,

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I don't know, works of service and acts of service and helps, and it's not happening.

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People aren't doing that. You gotta ask yourself, okay, why? Why is that not happening? And, you know, because there's a gift there.

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This is part of edification of the body. So that's a question that will help you answer whether or not there's a commitment to the full spectrum of gifts being represented.

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Do congregants know what their spiritual gifts are? So do people going there, you know, have they been challenged by the leadership?

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Hey, what's your spiritual gift? Can you be used? If you've been at a church for years and you've never been asked by the leadership what your spiritual gift is, and you're, especially if you're a member, no.

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That's a big no in my mind. Like, why are you even a member?

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What's the point of being a member? You might as well just be a member of the NRA or something if you're not using your spiritual gifts. Number four, church discipline.

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Do they take church discipline seriously? Is sin confronted? Is sin forgiven? It's not just shunning.

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Some churches get this wrong, where it's, they shun people and there's no forgiveness. Make sure that sin's confronted, but sin's also forgiven when there's repentance.

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Are there examples of elders publicly practicing Matthew 18? So Matthew 18, you know, you take before the congregation the sin that's been committed, that's been, that's unrepentant to warn the congregation about participating in that sin.

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And to bring about repentance in the individual who's sinning. Can you think of a time it happened? Does anyone know if it's ever happened?

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If it's never happened, then, you know, and the church has been around for a while, then you wanna take that into consideration.

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Number five, qualified elders. Are elders involved and transparent? So are you comfortable with them serving as role models for your children?

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Are they meeting the qualifications laid down in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1? These are all questions that I would ask.

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And this is one of the things that's kept, some people have left churches because I've asked them that question.

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That's the biggest question I've asked, I think, that has prodded people to leave a church. And it's without me telling them to leave, even though sometimes

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I know they should. And I'll just say, look, you got, you know, if you don't have kids, I'll say, if you had kids, but if you do, hey, your kids are gonna grow up at this church.

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Do you want those elders being the role models for your kids? Would you trust those elders to be, it says they keep watch over your souls.

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Are those the people you want watching over your children's souls? Let's say you died in a car accident or something.

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Your wife and your children are going there and that's the church that's gonna be taking care of them. Is that what you want? Are those the elders that you want doing that?

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Now, if you answer no, I think you got your answer whether you should stay at the church you're at or not.

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That's the answer. So that's a big one in my mind.

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And it's one that over the years has been helpful to a lot of people when I've brought it up, when they're trying to determine whether they should stay at a church.

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But if you're just trying to determine whether you should attend a church, you want to ask, you know, are they involved in transparency?

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If you don't know that your elders, if you don't know your pastors, if they don't make an effort to know you, then there's no way you know whether they're qualified or not.

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You can know they're preaching, but you don't know them. And they need to know you. It's what Luke 15 is about, right?

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Even finding the lost sheep. The shepherd knows the sheep. The sheep hear his voice. Christ is the ultimate model of the shepherd.

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Are you comfortable with them serving as role models for your children? Like I said, and do they meet the qualifications laid down in 1

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Timothy 3 and Titus 1? If you don't know them, you don't know if they meet the qualifications. If they don't meet the qualifications and you know that, then you got your answer.

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Number six, evangelism ministry. Romans 1, 1 Peter 3, Matthew 28 again. Is the church welcoming to unbelievers without compromising conviction?

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Some churches are not. They really aren't. Some churches are, in the name of being welcoming, compromising their own conviction.

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So that's a question. Are there efforts to reach the community and beyond with the gospel? If you go to church and you never hear about evangelism, there aren't any evangelism outings or ways to get involved in evangelism.

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There's nothing. Then that's a church that is not fulfilling its mission. And usually if a church is like that, they're also gonna be weak in discipleship.

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If they're weak in evangelism, they're weak in discipleship generally. And they're not doing what Christ has called them to do.

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They're a social club. They're not a church at that point. So that's a question that you need to ask.

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Are they reaching out to the community? Are they working in the community that they're in? Are you encouraged to share your faith?

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And then number seven, a general obedience to Christ. And this is what I really want some of you to think about, especially those from more fundamentalist church backgrounds when

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I've been a part of some of those. How often is the Holy Spirit mentioned? Think about it.

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How, you know, you hear the sermons and stuff. How often is the Holy Spirit mentioned? Holy Spirit, and there's a lot the scripture says about the

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Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is the person of the Trinity that gives us power to live the

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Christian life that we're supposed, that we're commanded to live. He reminds us of the things that Christ told us.

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He convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. He's the one that gives us the spiritual gifts we have. Illuminates the scripture.

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We're supposed to live in the power of the Spirit. We're commanded to be filled with the Spirit. That's the key to Christian living. Are you in a church that has the

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Holy Spirit? And, you know, you can't always, I mean, I'm not trying to get like super mystical here, but I think one of the basic things you can ask is, is the

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Holy Spirit even mentioned? Is the pastor filled with the Holy Spirit as you talk about it?

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Is Jesus spoken of in a personal way? Like the people there, like the leaders especially, they actually know him.

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Does the church suspend certain commands because of extra biblical rules? You could see that in legalism.

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You could also see that in the woke movement. You know, suspending certain commands of God. We're gonna just soft pedal the

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LGBT thing because of extra biblical rules that we've devised of inclusion and tolerance.

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Well, that's not the church you wanna be part of. So here's seven things for you to think about.

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And my challenge to you is find a church like that. And if you can't, if you can't find a church that at least is somewhat like that, no church is perfect.

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Again, no church is perfect. No spouse is perfect, right? So no church is perfect, but find a church that matches that as closely as you possibly can.

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I realize sometimes you're gonna have to make decisions about settling on certain things, but be part of the solution if you're gonna do that.

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Certain, some of those things you can't settle on. They're just, they're non -negotiables. If you don't have a church like that though, consider starting one.

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If you're someone who is in a position where you could do that, I would say, you know, you'd meet the biblical qualifications.

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I would say start a church. Don't have to have a seminary degree to do it.

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You have to have a relationship with the Lord to do it. Training helps, but there's a huge demand and hardly any supply.

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And unfortunately the supply that is there is mostly woke church people. So you may need to be the one, even if you're a contractor or something, that starts the church in your area.

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And it might be just a Bible study you start, however you wanna do it. But start, you know, and a lot of this stuff, yeah, is there hard work involved?

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Sure, there's hard work involved. But a lot of this stuff that I just mentioned is just basic Christian living stuff, use your gifts, evangelize. You know, try to be filled with the

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Holy Spirit and obedient to the Holy Spirit's leading. Use, you know, like I said, use your gifts, good theology.

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I mean, these are basic things. So be friendly to people, be normal. I almost, I was saying to someone the other day,

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I said, I wish that was one of, you know, I can say that's a fruit of the Spirit. You know, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self -control, and just be normal.

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You know, sometimes that can almost be a barrier where I've just,

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I've run across it before, where sometimes, I don't know, I don't know even how to describe it, but Christians are people and we're normal people and we can take the masks off and we can be normal with people.

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I'm not even gonna expand on it beyond that. That's all I had to say. So I hope that was helpful for some of you.

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Link is in the info section, discerningchristians .com. And if you wanna come see me in Florida, I'm gonna be there soon.