Episode 21: Pastoral Visitation

the rural church podcast 2 .0 Wait a second.

It's December That's better Just a couple of pastors discussing life ministry theology the gospel from a local church perspective

Eddie What's it time for? the rural church podcast

Welcome to the rural church podcast episode 21 and the final episode of the year of our

Lord 2000 and 22 I'm your co -host Alan Nelson pastor of Perryville Second Baptist Church with me is my brother in Christ Fellow labor in the ministry

Eddie Ragsdale say hello, Eddie. Well, hello everybody for the final time in 2022 Unless we're planning on recording another special episode or something.

I don't think I don't think so We pretty much release these on Wednesdays. It's good middle of the week

Maybe somebody's 28th of December. Maybe somebody is Traveling to or fro some sort of family gathering

I don't know, but we're grateful that you're tuned in and listening to us today. We want to talk about Pastoral Visitation lead into that some

Eddie. Yeah Well, we you and I were just talking because I actually as soon as we get done recording

We don't record these the week of we're a little bit ahead praise the

Lord And so it's a few weeks actually before the end of the year

But I've got a lady in my church who's having surgery today pretty serious surgery

And so I'm fixing to probably head out as soon as we get done recording to go and kind of check on her

And just see about the family. And so we just got I kind of thought we'd talk about pastoral visitation and and you know

I think so often we even use the phrase in our culture the preacher

Who's the preacher down there? Yeah, but and and it's not bad because of course

Exposing the word teaching God's Word to God's people is at the center of what?

Shepherds are called to do shepherds have got to feed the sheep But the shepherds also have the work of protecting the flock and they have you know

They have the work of caring for the flock when when they're ill when there are needs spiritual needs and even physical needs that that we can meet as a church and so Oftentimes, you know, there's there's more to pastoring than just the pulpit.

There's not less certainly not we can we never want to take away from the

Ministry, right but but there is more if all a person is is a public speaker.

They're really not past in fact I would say that's what Draw some of these young guys in the pastoral ministries the the glamour as it were of public of being a public figure and There's a lot of behind the scenes work that happened as a pastor

Not just personally not just being locked in your study forever, but also visitation, you know,

I'll say this Have you read Baxter's the reformed pastor? I'm actually working my way through it on audible right now

Boy, that's that's I can't believe you're not just a puddle of conviction. But yeah, it's pretty challenging, you know

And yeah, and and so he's talking about a pastoral visitation even beyond what we're talking about He's talking about Regularly visiting your people.

I don't know if we discussed we talked about elders There's been a few several several episodes ago, but but just a general principle is this deacons?

Exists to help care for physical needs of the church and Pastors exists to help care for the soul needs the spiritual needs of the church

That's a little simplistic a little hyperbolic you understand that but they both they overlap obviously

But the pastor's primary concern is for the souls of his people you know,

I was when I was listening just the other day to Baxter's reform pastor and you know, he said something that would have been so unpopular today.

He was talking about Even pastors needing to realize their own capacities.

I mean I'm putting this into my life I'm paraphrasing but he was he was really talking about How that pastors they don't need more sheep than they can care for And you know in today oftentimes, you know, everybody's thinking mega church

They're thinking you got to be bigger. Don't we need don't we need more people here? Well, and we talked about plurality of elders

And of course, I think that that increases the capacity You know what a local church can be because you've got more brothers to share the load but you you honestly

We shouldn't want more people than we can faithfully care for that we'll have to answer for right

Yeah, and so we're to shepherd the flock of God Peter says in 1st Peter 5

We're to shepherd the flock of God that is among you as a part of that is regular

And this is really not what we're talking about We're really going to get into hospital visitation really but just as a preface

I guess I should say we care more than just about hospital visitation and visiting when folks are sick

We ought to actually be regularly Let me say this pastors you are especially in the rural church.

It seems to be even more feasible. Although culturally it's Maybe weird, but we should be in the homes of our members and members should be in our home

We should that should be a common thing and and sometimes your situation, you know, Eddie You're in a unique situation for members to come to your home.

It's probably what 40 minutes or yeah, you know that it's but it's funny that you say that because it makes me and Laura be

My wife's name is Laura for anybody that any listeners that don't know but but Laura and I it oftentimes does cause us to Maybe not invite the church to our home as often as we

Should because we're so far away. We feel like we hate to make them drive But at least once a year we have a yearly fall

Festival thing that everybody comes to our house kind of night and every time

They all tell us. Oh, man, we we don't mind We'll drive, you know eat, you know, and then and then every now and then you know, we're able to have

Families over, you know one at a time in our home, you know, and so But yeah, it is harder the further that you live away

But what I found is so often, you know folks in our church want to want to have have you in their home you know if you know that we often think about hospice hospitality in terms of having people in our home, but Hospitality is just is

Also the the idea of being welcome in a person's presence Yeah, you can be at hospitable in the way that you go to someone's home as well.

Yeah. Oh, yeah You're a good guest. That's right. That's right. And we'll just kind of sum this this section up, but basically

Pastors should be involved in the lives of their people in the lives of the of the men and the lives of families there should be there should be visitation times as it were besides just Meeting on the

Lord's Day Right, but and I don't think we get to know or we did we don't get to know people's lives if the only time we ever see them is in the setting of your your corporate

Meeting if that's the only time you get to see somebody And I don't mean like they're putting on a mask they're not really being real

I don't mean that I just mean You it takes more time and it takes more

Just being around people in different settings to really get to know somebody and unfortunately, it's just going to put war it is going to put them it's on your shoulders pastor because More often than not there will be some folks that invite you into their lives

More often than not than not you have to take the initiative To invite others into your life or to order or to visit and schedule a visit regular visit

I think Baxter tried to make sure he saw everybody how often was it once a year or was it?

More often anyway, he tried to get in the home he was checking on catechism and their state of their soul and Like I said convicting and I would recommend the read it

It's a some people don't like it because it's so convicting and and maybe there are some unrealistic

Expectations for a married man with with children and all that but but I think it's a helpful read overall

You should should read it anyway, but now really what kind of prompted to talk about this discussion was talking about hospital visits

Okay, there's multiple. There's multiple sides to this There is the on the one side the the idea out there will perhaps pastor shouldn't eat

That's not even past response, but Deacon should be doing that then there's the other side That we've maybe felt guilty or even experienced that the pastor visits

Absolutely every single situation, you know hangnail being removed. There's a pastor

So there's there's kind of these two sides and I think that we don't agree with either side But we want to kind of draw a faithful Balance so why don't you lead in obviously you're not going to talk about this person's condition but why don't you lead in about this visit that you're going to make and you know kind of why you're going to make it and What you're going to do on this visit?

Yeah, so So I Think there are a couple of things to take into account you know, there is the relationship you have built with members and so Which this is one of the reasons why we need to have, you know a

Meaningful covenantal membership in the local church. It doesn't need to be just a name on a list because From a pastoral perspective.

It is much harder to make pastoral visits with somebody that you don't know very well

And that is just so hard or with a family that you don't know very well Another thing

Is the idea of you know, what's happening in the condition like you said? I'm not going to go into details.

But this lady is is is having surgery later today and so and it's a it's a pretty good drive where where this person is at from where I'm at and My hope is to get there early enough that I'm able to actually visit with her and pray with her before the surgery

And so today what it'll probably look like is getting there and then I probably won't even stay because It is it we're recording on a

Wednesday And so I probably will just after I if I get there early enough to pray with her and spend some time with the family

Before she goes to the procedure I'll probably just come back so that they're gonna be back here for Church in the evening and have to hear from them later about the outcome

But that's not always the case, you know, sometimes you're able to go and be there for the whole procedure

It kind of depends on the family members and how you're able to minister to them The goal isn't to do nothing.

The goal is to Oftentimes just your presence and you're being there is is an opportunity to minister to the family or to the individual

Looks like I tell my kids at Christmas. My presence is your presence. That's right

No So the idea here though So go back to this foundation that the pastor is to care for the souls of his people

But we don't separate soul and body. That's right. We don't like well, that's just a body thing. Not a soul thing

You know, well, no, we're we're made body and soul And so, you know, there is an aspect and in a lot of this takes biblical prudence you really have to you really have to apply the scriptures and seek the

Lord's wisdom because I Think in a healthy situation There are more minor events that you really should be able to say have you know

Deacons or even others in the church that are willing to reach out and minister, you know

And and and check on the on the physical needs I mean pastors can do that too, but as far as giving up your day, for example, you're giving up a large chunk of your day

Today to do this and in and by the way in a rural church setting That's not out of the norm.

Yeah, because it's not like you know Now for me, I'm a little bit closer

But it's an hour Into Little Rock, you know in about 40 minutes into into a hospital in Conway So you're not just gonna drop you run over somewhere for 15 minutes come back and be back within an hour

I mean you're talking about there and back. That's two hours of your day, you know, yeah the visit whatever

Maybe you'll run around do a couple other things since you're you know in town, but anyway Yeah, I mean

Right. I won't say where this visits going to be today, but it's it's further than normal most people in In our community.

So Marshall doesn't have a there's no hospital in County So the the the hospital that that most people go to is in Mountain Home actually

So that's that's hour and a half or so From Marshall, maybe a little less than that But honestly a lot of times when

I'm going to Mountain Home, I just go from my home my home to mountain Well, you know in the the old

Sunday school question You remember what the answers to the Sunday school quit like there's two answers. Yeah, or Read the

Bible and pray. Oh, I thought that was always just it's always Jesus or the answer like what do you do about this situation?

Read the Bible and pray. Well, let me let me add that to our visits read the Bible and pray

Yeah, Bible and pray one verse that I Use often in my hospital visits is

Psalm 7326 Says my flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart my portion forever

I've used this in in multiple, you know visitation sometimes even you know funeral situations but just to remind people that our bodies are ultimately not

Not made to last in a fallen world where they're fallen, you know And that God is our hope

God is our portion. And so when I go to a visit I I Used to have a little

Bible I carried with me because I liked that Sometimes I still do take an actual physical

Bible. I like that. I like what that communicates But at the same time,

I'll have my phone It's easier to carry and sometimes I'll just read, you know from my phone. But either way,

I think it's important as we We're not just caring for sister so -and -so

Surgery or whatever or brother so -and -so goblin or whatever. I mean, that's important But but I cannot emphasize enough when we circle back to this again

The reason that you're there is because you love them and you care for their soul. Yeah These kind of these kind of visits are important for elders to make it takes wisdom on on Which ones we're going to end up going to and which ones we're not well on that So let's talk just a little bit about About this idea of kind of how we do discern when it's when it's worth

Worth, that's maybe not the best way to put it. No, I know When it's appropriate, yeah, that's a good way to say it when it's appropriate

Because because I think there are a few different factors to take him into account One is the will of the church member or the family

I don't I don't think that we should be like you, you know, you gotta let me come, you know if if they if they are for some reason that they

Maybe don't want a visit, you know They might be having a triple bypass and they might say oh, please don't come pastor

And if they you still need to go, yeah, they say it like that. I'm like no, I'm coming, you know

Now now if they you know now if they're having a situation and they say look this is a private situation

I'm I don't I really Please really I don't want you to come right, you know, we should respect, you know those wishes, but there are situations,

I think it depends sometimes a 30 year old might be having a surgery.

No big deal an 80 year old might be having the same surgery. You might have a big deal, you know, it's a big deal, right?

And so I mean it just depends it depends on the person, you know, honestly Generationally, sometimes it's different like sometimes a younger generation like why would you even why'd you even come, you know?

but but sometimes it's a really especially if you have people are just busy just Starting to visit or or new members or whatever.

You can really build some great Camaraderie with them by just showing them like hey

Like I care like I care about it Like you're not just a you're not just someone on a on a on a paper

Like I care about what's going on in your life, right? and and and I think each pastor is gonna is gonna build some expectation

To in the way that they minister to their church You know, sometimes if maybe before before you got to your church

Maybe the former pastor Had a different approach to pass to Visitation ministry than you have.

Well, it may take a few years even for your church to catch on to a

Different kind of culture that's being established in your church and that could go either way you know, you could have been in church where man the pastor just Man, he went to everything and you know everything, you know that you have a dentist appointment.

I'm gonna be there And then you could have a situation where Man that he just never he

I mean he would call and check on him but he just never never visited at all and and and you could have a church that kind of just thinks that's normal and I do think the church culture

Affects a little bit too. I'm not saying you go. Okay. Well, they're they're used to nobody coming

So I don't go but it may take a little while for your church to Come around to yeah, and each place a little bit unique And so just some general principles, you know care for the soldier people invest in your people

You you your time, you know, I'm preaching on this is coming Lord's Day Redeem the time.

Mm -hmm. It doesn't say find time But redeem time buy it and so with your people

It's not just gonna fall into your lap to invest time into your people I mean sometimes things do you know

I'm saying but but you're gonna have to make time and it's and it's and it's worth it and I think

That means Prioritizing your week like making sure that you're studying when you're supposed to reading the scriptures praying like all this important Prioritize your week because inevitably things are going to be things are going to shake up, you know

And so if you if you're doing what you're supposed to be doing and I found this too There have been there have been weeks before it

This is seasons like there's there's like three or four people out of in a time and you know And like how do you do that?

And I found this the Lord has been faithful. The Lord has been so faithful He knows when we're wasting our time

He knows when we're investing our time and like when we're wet investing our time and people and trying to be there for people in Situations and then our study time seems to be less and it's normally what we like I've found in those times that the

Lord has been faithful to bless and the sermon has still come together You know because it's important for for pastors to be involved in the lives of their people and to be there for people

You don't know when you're gonna get the phone call somebody and sometimes it's been different things, you know it's not a church member, but the church members dad has

Been in an accident, you know, and you can be there for the family and things like that Just some other general principle.

I'd say like follow up, you know surgery and then follow up in a couple days whether it's a home visit or a hospital visit depending on the

The situation again, you're not just showing up and saying hi, but you're also you're praying for them and I Most pastors do that, but I also incorporate reading scriptures and I'd also

I'd also mention this Don't feel like a hospital visit has to be two hours.

I mean honestly sometimes it need it ought to be Five or ten minutes because it's just not it's not

They're not where they need to be, you know, I mean and it's not a great place But but you just like you said earlier just your presence

Yeah, and don't and you're not there to wear them out and they're and you're not there for them You know, especially if they're a very hospitable person by nature

Which they probably are if they're a growing and maturing Christian You don't want them to feel

Like they have they've got to this sounds strange in a hospital visit, but entertain you, you know you want you want to you want to go by you want to You know

Spend adequate time. But yeah, I don't I don't think I think that sometimes we can we want to be careful that we're not

We don't want to be a burden we want to be a Help to them, you know, there there is kind of an elephant in the room.

We might just mention This conversation, you know, we could have had this conversation three years ago

But this conversation has been changed over the last three years we've all had to think about these things even differently as we've come through the pandemic and And even how even like today this morning.

I called a brother That's in the family of this lady just to kind of see so what's the deal?

you know in the hospital that she's in because not one that I normally go to because even even now this far out from The pandemic and everything with kovat

You're still kind of thinking through You know, what are the rules and how and how are they operating and all those kinds of things?

Yeah, I think that's I think that's helpful. There's some wisdom there I think certainly that can be taken too far and it can just be on the other side and just be ignored

Well, we don't want to use it as an excuse, but we do want to take into account You know, especially with older people, you know, there's some things

I try to do if my kids have been sick. I mean I've always thought about it.

But now I think about it even more, you know My kids have been sick with whatever and then I'm gonna go visit an older person

Usually I just wait a few days or something, you know, just depending on again. It just takes biblical prudence

But again, I circle back around to this. It's our responsibility as pastors to care for the souls or people

I do think deacons ought to be involved in a healthy situation. They ought to be caring for these physical needs and helping and all that but but remember that We're responsible to care for the souls of the people and there's in providentially when people are sick

Whether that's a surgery or some other kind of sickness There are times there are things that they they need their pastor to you know to point them to Christ They need to be reminded of the faithfulness of God.

They they they're they're prone to anxiety perhaps They they need you to shepherd them.

God has appointed you to shepherd them and point them to his truth And so we need we need to do that.

There are other things that we can do I think it's helpful as a church body one thing y 'all probably do it.

We do it a lot of places do it We try to do a meals, you know for folks after they've had surgeries or a baby or or things like that But all of it circles back around to we're not just like some sort of club or whatever

We're we're caring about people's eternities. We're caring about the time that they spend we're caring about their sanctification and their holiness

Sometimes your sometimes your visits can be evangelistic with members of the family like this is another episode

But dude take some tracks with you. It's not that you know, like yeah Jackson your pocket You can give them to the nurses.

You can give them to doctors. You can give them to family members and And and there's been a lot of situations like in a surgery

I end up praying not with the I pray with the person but then also I'm out in the waiting room or whatever praying you know, um

So well and and and you know Jesus said On the night that he was betrayed.

He said to the disciples that They would be known that they were his disciples by their love they had for one another and I think that Especially as our culture becomes less and less

Christian It is we're gonna it's going to become more and more

Even family members of Believers in our churches that are gonna look at us and say why are you here?

yeah, and and it's gonna become even more and more of a Honestly, just our being there being a witness to well

We really do love You know your grandpa or your dad or your brother, you know, we really do level

I think it was that and you can you can look you guys can look this up I think it was in one of the plagues in Geneva They told

Calvin like the city officials told Calvin stop visiting people, you know, yeah, and basically he was like no you know and and and that's kind of have a mentality man the past I'm so Discouraged by how so many treat

I'm talking about pastors treat the pastoral ministry Mm -hmm sort of CEO just job you locked up in your office

Or you just or you're the pastor to the staff and then the staff is the ones that pass Yeah, there's like it's just terrible.

You need to be pastoral ministry is messy you need to be involved in the lives of your people and and Don't wear yourself out with with visiting over and think and sometimes look people need to be taught they have unrealistic

Expectations, you know if you're if if you don't have you don't have to necessarily go to everything but there are things that you do need to go you do need to be available for and So it teaches us to prioritize our week.

So we will have the availability when it comes up trust the faithfulness of God He will take care of you even on weeks that you feel

Stretched too thin and then really care about the souls of your people Any thoughts there and yeah, maybe two thoughts one

Just reiterating the idea, you know, if you had a player if you have a plurality of elders, you know

If you have multiple pastors, we're not saying that they all got to go right every time

So so that's gonna be a difference too if you have multiple pastors, you know, it's okay for Maybe one of the you know for one of the pastors to be making those visits the other thing

I would want to Want to just point out Even with the apostles in the very early church, which is not exactly the model for pastoral ministry because You know at the that that's a that's a special Moment in time when the church is being born, but even then we see that they are

That they they're Giving these other tasks to those first deacons

Because they said they needed to be about the the ministry of prayer and the word right the ministry of the word and prayer and I think so often we think well

Yeah, he needs to be praying for the church and he needs to be preparing and I'm preaching.

Well, that's true but even like you said There is the ministry of prayer and the word in these visitations when we visit people in their homes or in the hospital

That we're not talking about something that's separated from the ministry of prayer and the word it's a part of that ministry

And so we want to remember. Yeah, this is the work Whether it be in the larger gathering or one -on -one

We are the people that are praying for and sharing the truth of God's Word Which is the thing that's going to actually bring

Hope to the hearts of the people in our church. Don't call me about shepherding you in the hospital.

I'm trying to pastor over here So man, it's been a good episode, it's been a good year,

I'm grateful that we finally started this back. Yeah, and I'm grateful for those who are listening

We're we look forward to 2023 Lord willing we'll stay ahead of this and and give you a new episode every

Wednesday So, I guess we'll we'll sign off here brother, thank you for joining us on the rural church podcast say goodbye