A Muslim Convert from Afghanistan Joins James today

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three Three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white and good morning.

Depending on where you are. I'm not sure. Let's see eleven o 'clock. Most folks. East Coast. It's now afternoon wherever you are. Good morning. Good noon. Good afternoon. Welcome to the Tuesday edition of the dividing line and We today are going to hopefully have a special guest.

We're having some problems getting hooked up with him. Right now for some reason folks trying to call from the UK are getting a busy signal instead of instead of Getting through to us. So hopefully they'll be able to get through to us here real quickly because we have a special edition of the program.

It is our desire to have a 90-minute program today. Unless of course, we can't get together with our guest and then we won't but anyways hopefully today we are going to be talking with a man who the grace of God called out of Islam within a Islamic culture.

The.

Persecutions that have been his his ministry what he's undergone. I think it's a timely topic and hopefully the Lord will open a way for us to be able to Have him on the program today. Right now, however, we do not have him online and So hopefully we'll be able to to arrange that and to talk to him This coming Thursday evening.

We will not be having a program for those of you who are just now beginning to adjust to that particular schedule I will be heading to normal, Illinois those of you in the normal Bloomington area. I'll be on the Campus of the university there in the normal Bloomington area on Thursday and then on Friday Saturday and Sunday speaking at Calvary Baptist Church to the Mate basically the college ministry there called Crossroads and we will be able to be discussing a number of things including a baptismal regeneration and Open theism and inclusivism and all sorts of neat fun topics like that and that'll be this coming weekend and then the weekend after that for those of you in the Western region of the United States so we will be having the two debates at the University of Utah and I just realized as soon as I said that that's even though I was sent the information That I could put on the website giving the directions and pictures and stuff.

I never did it and the reason was for a while. We weren't sure what was gonna happen the initial debate with Our Dennis Potter nothing has changed with that. He is local there in the Utah area. But we had some some questions as to whether Robertson Jennis was going to be able to make it.

For the debate on the 5th of April the one with our Dennis Potter is on the 4th and that's I believe 7 o 'clock if I recall correctly and Then with Robertson Jennis on the 5th April 5th a Saturday evening we had a.

We had a Debate last time on a set of the Saturday night of conference and while it was well attended It really did cut back in the number of Mormons that were able to be there and we didn't want that to happen.

We want to have LDS folks there. In fact, we had LDS folks even saying that we we were trying to avoid having Mormons that debate on Mormonism Which I found very strange. Obviously those would be the primary people that we would want to have there.

And.

Unfortunately, they You know at conference. They're they're doing other things. It's perfectly understandable. So this time we thought well It's it's still a good night to have something going on. But maybe not on Mormonism.

Maybe we can do it on some other subject. And so hopefully Everything's gonna work out to where we will be able to do this fairly regularly. It's a lot of work and it's very difficult to line up a series of good debate opponents and Jason Wallace and the folks up at Christ Presbyterian Church in Salt Lake City do a tremendous job and in arranging these things and so That's where we'll be.

So we should Yeah should have a program on Thursday night the 3rd and should have one a week from today Tuesday the 1st April Fool's Day. On the subject. Here on the dividing line should have one should be back from Illinois unless you know something happens.

You never know. Have to admit when you travel today. Especially at this time of year a time of war. You do consider more than you have in the past what happened on 9 -11 not not that I'm afraid to fly at all.

But what happens if you get someplace and then something happens in the sense of a terrorist attack or something like that. Somewhere in the United States and the same type of thing happens in the grounding of airliners and you're you know 1 ,500 miles 2 ,000 miles from home you know, that's not a comfortable position to be in so that that does cross the mind once in a while and So anyways, hopefully The the line is ringing there and that means something.

I hope that hopefully we're we're getting through and Something's gonna take place here. We'll be able to begin the actual portion of the program. All right, excellent. We are gonna be able to to do our subject today.

I would imagine there is an exceptional amount of Telephone traffic not only regular business traffic, but also because of so much of what's going on overseas. It's probably pretty difficult to to get through we probably should have started a little earlier than we did but anyways let me know when we're all set up and ready to go and we will be able to Have our program today on the subject.

Okay, excellent. So well, let's go ahead and get started then because we wanted to have as much possible time as we could I'm joined on the phone. Let's make sure we can hear each other real. Well Peter are you able to hear me?

James you're very faint. Could you turn up a little bit on your end?

Well, I'll have to let somebody else do that. I have no control over those things, but I'm sure rich can Can try to touch up those things. You able to hear me any better now a little bit. I'll pass you over to Peter now James.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Hello Peter. Hello. Hello. How are you, sir? I'm doing quite well. Thank you for joining us today. Let me just Introduce you a little bit. Peter Is joining us mainly because your friend there Martin came into our our chat channel a little over a week ago and and shared with us his excitement at having heard your testimony of faith in Christ and I asked if you would be willing to share your story with our listeners.

We have a number of people listening now and then these programs are archived and people get to listen to these programs For quite some time in the in the future as well. So Hopefully the Lord will bless our time here here together.

Could you share a little bit with us? So what's your what's your background is a little bit about your your family where you were born things like that.

The edge of Cannon school at the age of five are in my village and then in a district college and Then I went to study in a university hmm and there I completed my several in study. Hmm, I will say he was a doctor but mother and he gave my father I'm sure he never read the new testament and that.

No you can't read it. Because you know that in Islam. Well it now they're canceled. Now Peter. Let me ask you.

So this man was was a he did medical work. But he was also a Christian and it was like a medical mission. Was this a a New Testament. That was was printed in in your native language.

Type of a thing. Yes. It was in our native language. Yeah, okay.

So it's it was easy for you to understand and and it was given to him. I think you just said that you don't believe that your father ever ever read that New Testament. That's right. Yeah, right. And that What made you what what made you desire to read it?

Oh.

It just find the New Testament in the bookshelf. Hmm and these are our heart and my father said but really there to be Christians in my heart.

Hmm, and so I was having this sort of question. So you started when when you started reading The the New Testament. Did you just sort of start with the beginning and read through to the end? How did how did you do it in it yet?

You see I was told by my father not to read it. Right, but then as I said I find that New Testament and I decided to read it that I must read this book and I'm sure that.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, so you started you just started with Matthew and just read straight.

Yeah, I started with Matthew and just I read through a beatitude that mm-hmm. This is my eternal I knew that if I accept Lord Jesus Christ, and I was just and could I use again? Mm-hmm. This will mean hmm.

I desire to depart. I I at that time I decided that God really answered prayer. Yes, please. Yeah, it was in because of a homestead sleep really the light in a show me and show me now and really at that moment I felt I just that Jesus is Lord.

And then my mother heard this she came out of her room. He said to me what happened to you? I was full of joy I went back to my room and I just had a nice and good sleep that night. Hmm now.

Let me ask you something because this is important for I think a lot of Christians to hear. You did not have a Missionary or a teacher to be guiding you through these things. You simply had the Word of God.

Yeah, because there is no church and no missionary people because this is protection. Mm-hmm. You see this is really I wish that the people who have these Opportunities to listen Afghanistan. There are no such opportunities even in Pakistan.

There are some churches, but not in the area near Afghanistan. We were just near Pakistan and Afghanistan and so. Even the people here in these this country in the UK. I'm in the UK now and the people they are taking it for granted.

They have good opportunity. No persecution, but still they are not going to churches. Right and they do not realize their responsibility that they are going to die and one day there will be.

Yes.

Really supernatural that God helped me through his word. Oh, it's.

It is incredible to hear that because so many people unfortunately in Western Nations question the clarity and ability of the Word of God to do exactly what the Word of God did in your life and It's a it's a sad thing.

So now knowing Even as you were considering this you you understood I'm sure Jesus is teachings about taking up the cross and following him and Counting the cost of discipleship. You you had to be thinking about those things knowing how difficult it would be and then when you confess That Jesus is Lord.

What happened what happened. How long did it take before your your family learned of of.

What the Lord has done in your life in the morning. You see my faith to me that but in my life that I said no to my freshly younger even to you are younger. Elder people will look down at you. So I said, no, I can't pray.

He said why. I said I'm not a Muslim. He said what are you now? I said I'm Christian and then he left his prayer. And I I just loved because oh, I wish that people could experience this test. Which I experienced.

How God said how he he taught me. Before that I was a good Muslim. I was a devout Muslim. I was praying five times. I wanted to be good. I was helping people Islamic. I never had assurance that I'm going to be saved but the first day I did nothing just I opened my heart to the Lord Jesus Christ and Invited him to come in and he came in and he saved me.

He did it. Well, I imagine yeah, and so.

He the first the first words of your father then to your to your mother. Is it you were going to die?

Yeah, because my father was a tribal elder in Afghanistan. We have a tribal deciding that the people cases and they are resolving their disputes. He became a Christian how people are going to but he did go to mosque and.

Then in the afternoon the night time there he came to my home and he asked me that why you didn't come to mosque. I explained to him and he in the next day. My mother said to 94. Where did you go? Just I.

I I didn't know where to go. But before this might be here and there how I had contact and he and I asked her that what brings you here. She said just a visit and she gave me water and I so she was very helpful to me.

I asked her to give me Bible. She gave me one day with one friend and another day if they knew that I became a Christian. So this is sorry friend. We love you. But you rang in lit and then I started silent and many of my friends said that look you need to keep silent.

It's not it's dangerous for you. If I am living among Muslims. Because everywhere if I if I left my village, I went to another village. I went to another place and if I am living among Muslim I have to pray and if I'm not saying that I am Christian I have to pray how I can do this that believing in the Lord Jesus who is not a living God.

So friends to them and then this was a ministry Bible area. Jesus that missionary lady was helping me. She was giving me Bible to do and we distributed thousands of Bibles among the people and many of our friends they came.

Yeah.

So this. This ministry you begin. How how long were you able? Able to do this and and what was the eventual outcome of it?

Yeah, I started this ministry mainly from 95 for the Ministry in population because in their tribal area people are mostly living in Samal population. And it's a very cities where the after that I mostly I spend my time Wandering with the people and next time we and some teacher He came to know large and the people response that people the duology of the cross because they are They misguided by their reading it and this is quite different what we are being told.

And.

The people who were once challenged for us and there were friends of us and. Then they were coming to opening their houses and their minds and their houses and their.

So you and did you encounter members the Taliban?

Sometime before 96 Was in the evening time that they opened fire on me and they called me. They called my name. Now this time that you are going to die say that repent and come back to your old faith I say.

And again, this was reminded me that for to me to live with Christ and to die is again. Like if I live this is also Christ if I die. So I don't to be with the Christ. Hmm, but God said so.

How how long were you able to do this? What eventually brought an end to what you were doing there on the border of Pakistan Afghanistan?

You see for 2000 October 2000. Then I moved to the UK 98 sorry from from 96 and 98 and in 90 days when I came to a city to meet that Missionary lady I was arrested.

You were arrested in in was it Afghanistan or Pakistan? No in the Pakistani side and not in Afghanistan.

I just if I was arrested in Afghanistan, I see and.

What happened when you were arrested?

Yeah, I was the charge against me many people know that and cursed him and many people will. This is a easy easy way. It was very difficult me through that time and they were asking me that tell us why you are speaking against and my answer was I'm speaking for Christ.

I Have nothing to do with a day when that in the night time and again, they wanted to that police officer. Hey, are you? Why are you after your life? Give you death you have my Bible you have got my Bible if there is anything against anybody in this country of message of salvation for the guilty of anything and you are just in.

So how. Hmm and I thought was using me true government area as well because the police but it was not.

So, how did you get from from there to to the UK?

Through the help of God and people they I see. How long have you been there now. A year ago. Year ago. Okay.

And so.

What?

What are you doing now? I mean There's obviously a very large growing population of Muslims in the United Kingdom and Britain and I would assume that you have desire to to share with them. So what what kind of challenges are you facing now?

Oh.

Yeah, and I just thought was for me to bring work here because I never thought that I Coming to the UK, but I never thought that I am going to be in an area where there is Muslim population and mostly from Afghanistan from Pakistan and from country like Yemen and Bangladesh last year in February.

But between February and the first week of March, I was just feeling very uncomfortable I thought that how I can reach these because the people there Sam here and I just started going door to door in the Muslim Population and it won't finish.

That's wonderful, so this is an ongoing ministry you have. Does some of this witnessing take place in your native tongue? Are you able to talk with a lot of these folks in in the language from from from where you were from?

Actually by the grace of God I can speak. Hmm God speak Arabic, but I can read and speak and hopefully God will help me to speak as well. So trying and in some way or other we are able to get. So you have.

You have sufficient Resources as far as Bibles and and literature in the language of these folks or is that still a major need?

Yeah, that we are able to and they are able to yes now.

Over here in the United States. In fact, someone just mentioned this in our in our chat channel. We've heard of the speakers corner. I've heard of Various folks who do work with Muslims in the London area speak of the speakers corner where there are Dialogues or I guess public debates With with Muslims over over issues.

Are you familiar with that? Are you familiar with the speakers corner? So you don't have do you have. Is most of the work you do then? One on one with with people in their homes or is there are there Discussions that develop out on the on the streets there in in in the UK or or how does that normally work?

What kind of there. Certainly they have. Has the Muslim population there especially the very Strong believing Muslims have. Are they coming against you? Are they resisting that kind of work?

Because when they look to me they can know that I am from the question and their first question Is that are you Christian? Are you Muslim? I said I'm Christian. So I'm Muslim. Background. And then they say why you become a Christian then.

Because they never said that how you became a Christian. Their question is why you became a Christian. And then I'm sharing my testimony With them. And then they are asking me questions.

Jesus.

Lord Jesus death is result of Bible and many of them. They are quite Open and receptive and but everybody is going to receive burden. I hope that as God worked in my life. And then this was a seed which was planted Through the Word of God and God used it.

I'm sure that somebody is going to read there and they will read there and I'd really speak to them. And if you can pray for them, it will be good. Yes.

Well, it's an amazing thing to think of the the mercy that the Lord has shown to you and his grace toward you it's it's true for any of us, but when you see that against the stark background of The context which you were in it's it's truly amazing.

In just a couple minutes in about eight minutes. We're gonna take a brief break and then if our if our listeners would like to participate in the program Maybe ask some questions as to how you can reach out to your Muslim neighbors.

If there are issues we haven't addressed yet We will invite you to participate in the program today at eight seven seven seven five three three Three four one that is toll-free at least in the United States.

It is eight seven seven seven five three three three four one and I would invite folks to get online early so that we Don't try to have to rush people in at the at the end. Now as we're opening the phone lines to folks. I wanted to ask a question of you first of all.

Before you read the New Testament. Before you had an opportunity to read what the scriptures actually say about Christ. What had you heard or been taught? as a Muslim. Concerning Jesus what what was your understanding of of him before you read the New Testament gone by?

Mm-hmm. And About Jesus is that. And they do not believe that His sonship and his deity. Right, yeah, and so they believe that the Bible. Now They even do not know about never mentioned that these books are.

Not now not not valid now. So the the perspective presented in the Quran in the hadith of Jesus especially when the Quran has Allah speaking to Jesus and and Saying I I never told you I never said to you or you never said that you should worship.

And it went to worship you or your mother. Those types of sections that was pretty much all you knew. About about Christ was what you read in in the Quran and in the in the hadith then yeah. Now someone just asked me in channel Was it illegal?

For your father to have that New Testament in in the house. Is it illegal to own? Any type of Christian literature or is it just discouraged?

Bible in the home. Mm-hmm, but in Pakistan, it is not illegal people can help these books in home but when they Announce that they are believing in these books and they are just Finishing Islamic practices.

So it is included in Islamic law according to Islamic law. I'm to other religion. This is Islamic victory that he must be killed.

So it is still even to this day the the law the official law of Pakistan that a a convert.

Is should not be allowed to live in some area like in North Western Frontier Province area where? Sharia law I see and so in the area. But it's still as long as I know as long as I was told they say that a conversion from one religion to other it mean that they consider it as Anti-state activity, but still many Muslim they are coming to faith in Lord.

Jesus Christ now.

I understand what Sharia is but probably a lot of our listeners that don't. Could you explain briefly? What? Sharia is.

Yeah, surely. Because if if in an area there are Sharia Islamic law. For example for stealing and for murder you will be killed and I for I this is the Sharia law.

Isn't it the desire of Very faithful Muslims who believe strongly in the in the Quran and the hadith to see Sharia established across the world.

Yes, yes. This is the their desire the most they desire that if there is a Sharia law, they will get just and so.

Isn't that important for those of us in? non Muslim countries to recognize that. That is the ultimate desire of the of the faithful Muslim is to see Sharia established wherever they are.

Yeah, I don't think that the Sharia law right would be recognized because the cruelly against the humanity as The example of a Taliban were doing. Was it according to many?

Right, well, that's definitely something to keep in mind folks. We're gonna take a brief break. Stay right there Peter. We're gonna invite folks to to give us a call. Eight seven seven seven five three three three four one.

We'll be taking your phone calls. Don't delay.

What is dr. Norman Geisler warning the Christian community about in his book chosen but free. A new cult. Secularism. False prophecy scenarios. No, dr. Geisler is sounding the alarm about a system of beliefs commonly called Calvinism.

He insists that this belief system is theologically inconsistent Philosophically insufficient and morally repugnant. In his book the Potter's freedom. James White replies to dr. Geisler, but the Potter's freedom is much more than just a reply.

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The Testimony of a Muslim Convert and the Power of Scripture

And welcome back to dividing line. My name is James White. Today We have a special guest calling from the United Kingdom. We want to thank Martin for Allowing this to happen and making this happen. I know that Transcontinental or transatlantic phone calls are not cheap.

And so we are very thankful for him providing Peter to us to talk to us about the grace of God God has his people all across this world. The gospel is a powerful thing and it is a true Joy to hear of the New Testament in the language of the people being used by the Spirit of God to bring faith to testify of Jesus Christ and We have a number of people online before we go to our phone callers.

I want to ask one more thing of Peter. There are many people in in our country Peter. I deal with this all the time. Who do not have any? They don't believe that it's important to know about things like all the accuracy of the Bible the The fact that the Bible has been transmitted to us over time in such a way that we can trust it the deity of Christ the evidence for the resurrection there are many people in our land who feel that to Talk about those things to study those things to understand those things is really To sort of miss what's important?

And and they just don't think that's really important stuff and yet you were forced by nature of of What your background was and what your conversion involved to basically? Become an apologist a person who has answers to those things.

Almost immediately you very quickly had to come to understand why you you could believe the Bible why you could believe in the resurrection. Speak to us if you could about how important those things are when you're seeking to to share with with the Muslim people.

They believe in God, but in a different way. But mostly when we with the people who the Muslim people they believe in God. But I asked them that are you sure if you have to die today and you have to stand and they say we don't know from them that they are not sure about their salvation, but for me, I'm sure about my salvation because Jesus.

Nobody in the history of the human being and nobody will be like him that who was raising the dead. Muslim people believe that Jesus raised the dead. They believe that he healed the sick. They believe this but they do not believe that he is the God.

But what that Jesus is God no human being no human being he came to this earth and He died for my sin. He shed his blood on to reconcile the human humanity the last humanity to God and he died for everybody for you for me and That I thought that I am a good Muslim, I think but I'm not sure that I'm going to be heaven and only one way that Jesus is.

Going to give me the guarantee of the the Muslim people with whom you speak when you talk to them about sin. There there really isn't any. There isn't anything in in in the Quran and I mean certainly Allah's called merciful and things like that.

And you there's the things you do the pilgrimages and the prayers and things like that. But I think we all know that that just doing those kinds of things does not give any kind of Assurance to someone it doesn't.

It doesn't start a relationship Between that person and and and God when you talk to them about eternal life and and knowing God. Do you what kind of reactions do you do you get from from them when you when you talk to him about those things?

Yeah, but we personal relationship with him. They say that no because they are silent they are very angry they say that you see look we know God. But still why they are angry they want to they need Oh God and to believe free to to accept this and Let me share with you one of my friends story you see in this in the United Kingdom.

I I met with him. He was not open to the gospel. He said that and then after a few weeks He gave me a call and he he was very happy to and then he accepted and then After a few weeks, he said to me that he will like rather to read the whole Bible and I gave him whole Bible and then Christ and how he can press his family how he there will be problems from his family side the problem many people know that they are not on the right path and they know that Jesus Only can give us they show they are looking back to their family.

They know that when we say that we are Christian when we Decide to follow Lord Jesus Christ What what will have to cost we will have to leave our families and many of them only God can give them courage and Instead of their police and their friends We believe in a in a God who is the God of mercy and they believe in a card here.

Do you see when I was a Muslim? I? Use always the God of wrath. Is it mean that God created us is the meaning of our creation? Why he has created us creation a Created humanity just to punish then God show me that no, I love you I love you so much that I will send my only son to die for your sin.

All right, Peter.

Thank you very much for that. I'd like to invite our callers to get involved at eight seven seven seven five three three Three-four-one and that's what Scott up in Kirkland, Washington has done now.

We want to make sure again, we're dealing with the phone system here and so hopefully Scott will be able to hear Peter and more importantly Peter will be able to hear Scott if we have any issues with that I will try to Relay Any questions that are not understood, but let's go ahead and talk with Scott.

Scott. Are you there? Yes I am. Okay, Scott Peter. Are you able to hear Scott? Yeah. Oh good. Excellent. Go ahead Scott. Okay.