Hypostatic union

Open Air Theology on the Hypostatic Union

All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are live. Welcome to open-air theology. My name is Jeff. I am one of the pastors at Covenant Reformed Baptist Church and I also have a YouTube channel where this video will be displayed.

It's called my two cents with Jeff Rice. That's since with a Z. I'm also a co-owner of post tenor brussellux Bible rebinding and also have Post tenor brussellux beard care now the beard care. It's something that we just did.

Here's the bottle. I just got it bottled last night. This is Wittenberg. That's what I have in right now. You can see the Nice shine to it smells good. You have a beard hit me up for the Greg. You need to hit me up.

I'm already over to him already did. Okay. Okay. I don't check the order. So I'm waiting for it, man. Okay, it's coming to you. All right.

So my go or your go, okay, so. So again, there's you know last week for those who were here. My name is Greg mooring jr. I am the former pastor of Hagerman Valley Baptist Church where my good friend Braden is currently the pastor.

I Counted again a joy to to be here. So as it is right now I'm I'm sitting in limb in pastoral limbo at the moment you know waiting for wherever God would go but glad I get the opportunity to hang out with these two brothers here to discuss a an incredibly important topic so hopefully this will be a Blessing to you and a with the hat shout out to Jared Payne from a Pilgrim's Coffers offers theology.

And I'm Braden Patterson With like Greg was saying I am the pastor of Valley Baptist Church I'm very privileged to be a part of that healthy church over there and I just be able to glorify God on a daily basis with a Bride that loves and adores him.

So it's a it's a blessing to be over there. I also I Do a YouTube channel called reformed ex-war man where it's just centered on different theological discussions. The purpose of edifying the Christian as well as calling to the LDS to repent and believe in the gospel.

All right. So how y 'all gentlemen doing? Better than I deserve better than you deserve. Amen to that. Amen. So normally we started a topic a couple weeks ago Braden and myself going through Matthew 24.

And as y 'all notice it's Wednesday, it's not Thursday. So we had to come a day earlier because I had planned on you know having this tomorrow. But I forgot that it's my wife's birthday. You've got the day is messed up, right, you know.

Because she had planned for us to do something tonight. But then she changed the plans to tomorrow and because she changed because she made the plans for the night I was thinking it was Wednesday and Well, you know then she changed it turns out her birthday is tomorrow.

And so I can't have the podcast because she'd take my head off. So we got to go on a date and stuff like that. Which you know? Hallelujah, it'd be fun. So but I still want to get a podcast in so I reached out to these brothers and we're doing it tonight and Next week we'll get back on Matthew 24 and you know get some blood bowl and stuff like that.

The Meaning of the Only Begotten Son

But tonight tonight our topic is the hypostatic Union so if for someone who's never heard of the hypostatic Union, what would just be like a you know like a You know, I'm throwing you a baseball and you're gonna hit it out the park.

Just a real quick answer of what? How would you explain the hypostatic Union?

Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, Jesus is truly God and he's truly man and yeah.

And that would that. I guess that's where I would make the correction to you. Their brain. What would. Jeff said that it isn't that he's fully. Because it's that he's truly. Because he's fully.

He's an all-millennial idealist.

Grace. Yeah, I mean it fully doesn't really mean fully. Does it. Yeah, it's spiritualized it does mean fully.

It does. All right, so my plan is is that we're gonna look at the first three. So we're gonna look at the chapter 8 of the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. And we're gonna read the first three paragraphs and we're also going to look at some historical creeds.

And we're and then we're going to just talk about the hypostatic Union. With one of y 'all brothers want to volunteer to read the first paragraph or I can read it. It doesn't matter but.

Yeah, I'm more than happy to do that first paragraph. It says God was pleased in his eternal purpose to choose and ordain the Lord Jesus is only begotten Son according to the Covenant made between them.

To be the mediator between God and humanity God chose him to be a Believe be prophet priest and king and to be head and Savior of the church. The heir of all things the judge of the world from all eternity God gave the Son to a people to be his offspring.

In time these people would be redeemed called justified sanctified and glorified by him.

So that last little bit right there is speaking about the Covenant of Redemption. But I want to before we go on to the other part. I want to talk about Up here towards the beginning. It says God was pleased in his eternal purpose purpose being the Covenant of Redemption to Choose and ordain the Lord Jesus his only begotten.

So for someone that might be listening that might have heard these words all their life. They're reading the Bible. They they see it the only begotten. But they have no clue What only begotten means? What does?

It mean that Jesus is the only begotten because we know begotten means son of. So whenever we read in the the The scriptures and we see the you know, what everyone skips and they don't read. It's the the genealogy and it says so-and-so is the you know, but God You know, and so and so how would you explain?

Jesus being the only begotten. May I take a stab at that? Go ahead. Yeah, so I would say this is where it kind of when it comes down to. And initially from. You know, I may butcher the word but you know monogamous.

Which we find in particularly like John 3 16 for God's right the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Right. I know some modern translations will take.

And there's some reason for it. Well, they'll take monogamous to be the one and only correct, I I Personally prefer only begotten One we see. I think it fits One better but within as you're mentioning there the big acts, you know.

So and so begat this first we got this. Begat begat begat begat. That I think that it's an important word that is used There and then we also see within the context of the creeds and confessions. We see here in the 1689 it used him as the only begotten.

And then even going back as we you know, we'll hear later. But going into I want to say the. Not the Athanasian.

So the nice Got not made. Yes. Before you finish answering let me read that right quick. So the nice saying Creed now. This is what I read at my church. So I took the eye out and put we. As I read this before the church we all confess this.

We believe in one God the Father Almighty maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible and in One Lord Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God begotten of the Father before all worlds God of God light of light very God of very God Begotten not made being of one substance with the Father by whom all things are made.

And I think that that distinction, you know when we get rid of begotten or only begotten and only say one and only I Think we're just we're cutting ourselves off from that whole, you know tradition. I know I'm a Baptist and I'm talking about tradition.

It seems you know, it's okay your reform. Yeah, so there's so. But. That being said the idea of being begotten is that he is the one who like comes forth from? That he is the only One from that proceeds forth from the father.

That he was not he's not a created being. But that he is Eternally the Son of God.

Correct. Yeah, that's the definition I would give.

Yeah, it's so that so to be begotten is that he especially when you if the context of the scriptures as a whole. That the scriptures as a whole Point out, you know will point are pointing to this time that there would be this begotten one and When it comes in as this well, that's Jesus It's the Lord Jesus Christ and then we come to find out that actually he he's been forgotten from all of eternity that he's not a He's not a created being but in his Economy As is the very Son of God.

You know, he is he is truly the Son of God but just From it from eternity past. You know, he's always been that way, you know, he's the you know in that and which then of course, you know is certainly Braden can Throw, you know, don't you know, maybe given him a chance in alley up here to dunk is that what we see, you know with them with Mormonism Mormonism and other false doctrines Will have where.

You know God had many sons, no, he didn't he had one and That's the Lord's the only begotten the only or if we want to even go with the modern terminology the one and only son. Yep, it's the Lord Jesus Christ.

So.

Right, and would you say that that is a good argument to to have with Mormons? You know about the only begotten meaning that that that Jesus, you know, like it means that he is. You know. The only begotten Son meaning that he is eternally from all eternity the Son of God.

He yes made the Son of God. He always.

Was the Sun existed as such? Yeah. No, I that's where I agree with the definition 100 and and the reasoning of what that word means. But the challenge is is that I think as as modern times go on that we start seeing the challenges within English and our understanding of things today and so I would actually prefer a Different word such as the only unique one or something along those lines one and only for for the specific reason that somebody will go to.

And let me explain this out as thoroughly as I possibly can. Matthew one. They say okay. You see so on and so on big at so on and so on big at so on so on big at and they don't understand That this is a different Greek word that's being used here.

And so they see that English word begat and then they go and see that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father and now you have the Father becoming coming down to earth and having physical sex with Mary to physically offspring Jesus and and so it's this this cultish idea that they can push using English words that play off of one another and so I would I would be of the preferring of Using only unique one if I went into a conversation with an LDS person that that tries to attempt to use begotten.

I'm gonna go to the definition of what begotten is and say I Another way that you can translate. This is the only unique Son of God or something along those lines and say that word over here that says begot Is not the same word and definition.

Nor of the Greek nor the same Greek word period that is used over there. And so these words can't be interchanged with each other. And so I think that there's a little bit of confusion. Yeah that the Colts play on big time because yeah.

Yeah, I think the creeds that definitely hit that, you know, like in the Nicene Creed where I Where I read and it pointed out and like it says only begotten three. Two or three times but it says and you know God of God light of light very God of very God begotten not made.

Then it says being of one substance with the father. So this substance here is homoousius. Right that that same substance not everything that. Everything that the you know homo mean the same Lucius meaning Substance yeah.

Thank you. My mind just kind of went blank for a second. And and so pointing out that that everything that the father is Jesus is to you. Yeah, like it's the same substance and and so to.

Speak a little bit more on that, too. I think with talking to a Christian to a Christian that understands these things that type of terminology is fine and fantastic. Like I I'm gonna tell you Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son like right because you know what I mean.

When I say that right, but when I when I I would hope but when I when I go and talk to an LDS person, I Will not use the word begotten because I know immediately where their mind is going and how they're going to justify them.

That means that Jesus Christ is the Son of God Being the literal offspring of God. And so there there's certain terminology that I'll avoid with certain certain groups that will play on these English words and try to Use them for their advantage use them for their Their taking in that sense, which is not right at them whatsoever.

Now, you know, I'd have to see where to find. Interesting about it is how the the emphasis on the idea of the begotten versus the only You know, the only is Is certainly part of the emphasis that ought to be made, you know that they kind of avoid it.

So he's begotten. Yeah, but he's the only one. Yes, so.

Specifically within the the LDS Framework to that that that's where more this is not a modern teaching that they would be teaching on openly but in the days of Brigham Young and Around that generation they were speaking very clearly that God the Father came down and had physical Sex with Mary and that Jesus is the only one that is physically done that with so therefore it fulfills only Begotten in the term of sexual product product.

Son, you know, okay See what I'm saying? Like that's where you have to be very very yeah Particular in the words that you use when it comes to LDS stuff. And so I know I usually to be honest with you I I stay away from using the word son of God until I can start diving into Jesus Christ and his terms and what they mean and Until I Establish that he is God I won't even start coming out and saying Jesus Christ is the Son of God in that sense because I know exactly where the mind Is going right?

I know that they're they're attacking his deity by that I know that they're they're they're blasting him in those ways and they just don't conceive what the Son of God that title means.

Right in this in this in this gets back to you know, the discussion here is you know, it's you Understanding Who he is and you know the the unity that has had in his Human nature and in his nature as God.

Absolutely That Wrong and I'm maybe jumping ahead here a little bit. But if we get that wrong it It impacts everything. I mean it impacts our eternity. Yeah, let's go ahead and read.

The Eternal Son Takes on Human Nature

Section two because it's gonna touch again On you know, so that way we ain't got to worry about jumping ahead When section two, okay. So the Son of God the second person of the Trinity is truly and eternally God.

He is the brightness of the Father's glory the same in substance and equal with him. He made the world and sustains and governs everything he has made with the fullness That he has made. When the fullness of time came he right here he took upon himself Human nature.

Okay, let's just stop right there for a second. So this is what we was talking about for that definition of Him being truly God truly man the hypostatic union Jesus took upon himself Human nature. I like how.

Make me find it real quick. And the affinations Creed there's a spot in here that says the right faith then is That we believe and confess That the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God is God and man. Perfect God perfect man of a rational so in human flesh subsiding Equal to the father as touching His Godhead and inferior to the father as touching his manhood who although He be God and man yet He is not two but one Christ.

One not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh right here but by taking of the manhood into God so Jesus is not the hypostatic union is not God turning into flesh, but God taken on flesh. Right. Any any thoughts there before we finish reading?

I? Just think that's a you know like it's an important distinction.

I kind of cut out there part of what you were reading there. So I I might have missed some of your guys's conversation, but you know it's it's important to make those distinctives, right? Because if we say that The word when he became flesh he fizzed and became this different substance.

We're confessing the the heresy of monophysitism. Right we say that the word divested himself of any divine attribute now. We're confessing the the heresy of kenosis theory. We have to we have to recognize which I'm going back to to the definition of the hypostatic union truly man truly God is is is is totally awesome, and I Agree with that.

I do prefer using fully God and fully man because of A heretic I ran into that believed in the kenosis theory that said Jesus Christ is God. But he divested himself of divine attributes, and if I cut off your arm right now You're still Jeff right if I cut off your leg. You're still great right.

Well. God can cut off his attributes and still be God. Terrible terrible reasoning and there's some very strong scriptures to go against that and so that's why I use that yet fully because I'm saying No, he's fully Attributely 100 truly God.

Fully truly 100 a lot of people will use yeah a lot of people use the percent thing. They'll say he's 100 God 100 man meaning. Yeah, he's not a demigod. No, like like like Greek mythology would teach 50 man 50 God.

Yeah, what we're saying is is God took on flesh. Yeah, and I'm not really big on analogies when it comes to any part of the Godhead. But I found a real simple one and again. And I don't find any heresy wrapped up in it.

But I just try to tell someone the same way that you're when your hand Fills the gloves when you put on the glove the way your hand feels that glove. God filled a human body. That human body is a human body.

But what filled that human body is God himself?

But but the thing is is that your hand never becomes the glove.

Correct, but with Christ, well, yeah, but you're talking about a resurrection.

No, no, I'm saying is that so that you you know that your that your hand. Yes. It took on the glove. But the glove in your hand. Never embodied a a single solitary.

Person, you know. Or a single existence again. It's an analogy that right. Every analogy I'm not trying to. You know heresy, huh? No. No. No. Well, well, I've checked it a bunch of times. There's no heresy there.

But again, I wouldn't I wouldn't I definitely wouldn't try to do this for the Trinity. But the idea is is that you know when Jesus came up out the ground like Jesus now is is Has a body in in. You know in heaven, so would you say that he is even now truly man?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

That that's that's not our I mean our hope one of our hopes for our resurrected bodies.

It's to be like his is to be like his. And we'll still be a man woman. Yeah, but the two. The idea here is that the two don't mix. My hand does not become the glove. Yeah, the glove does not become my hand.

Yeah, same way with the human nature and the nature of deity.

Right. Yes the need you know, that's you know, the definition. The idea that the the two mixture or the two and I think this might even be like an oligoneer statement. Describing this that those two natures never mix.

Yeah, it's definitely the Chalcedonian. No, yeah, like these never these never mix. But yet they they're embodied and this is this is the mystery of the of the hypostatic union. Absolutely, because we can go only so far without You know running into dangerous territory.

But. You know, it's an it's a matter of we have the Lord Jesus Christ the God-man himself. Being truly God he you know in his in his Nature as deity his all the attributes of deity it absolutely. But then as man He is all that man is yet without sin.

Yep, and He doesn't. Whereas in the Trinity we have three persons in one nature, you know of being God. You know one substance in Christ in the Lord Jesus. We have one person. With two natures. Yeah that.

You know. That don't mix and in this you even have, you know, the the two wills. You know as God and as man. We and this is one of those things that we see throughout the you know, the gospel accounts.

Is is the Lord Jesus? You know you go is this a matter of where his his deity is is. Touching his humanity at that moment where there's something, you know, the deity is shining through or is this a situation where he here you have a man who has no sin and.

So because he has no sin and he's fully reliant upon the Holy Spirit. That you know, he's at 12 years old able to school the the you know, the teachers of the law. Well, it wasn't because he was God at that moment that the that the teachers were like, whoa, this this kid knows the stuff it was.

It's what it's what happens when you don't have to worry about sin. And you've and you've been walking, you know with God and so it's a great mystery. And it you know, I would challenge anybody who's seriously who is Serious about this stuff and to actually sit down and consider who Christ is as God and as man and.

Tell me if you get bored, right? Yeah. If you do you don't have a pulse. All right, so let's finish reading what this says. I know I've been talking a lot someone else want to finish this but this paragraph paragraph to paragraph to I'll take that.

Stop right here. He took upon himself human nature. Okay, so.

Starting that sentence over. It says when the fullness of time came he took upon himself human nature. With all the essential properties and common weaknesses of it, but without sin. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Virgin Mary.

The Holy Spirit came down upon her and the power of the Most High overshadowed her. Thus he was born of a woman from the tribe of Judah a descendant of Abraham and David. In fulfillment of the scriptures two whole perfect and distinct natures were inseparably joined together in one person without converting and this is what we're talking about here without converting one into the other or Mixing them together to produce a different or blended nature.

This person is truly God and truly man yet one Christ the only mediator between God and humanity.

Amen, man. Absolutely. Brighton amen. Yeah. 100 You know, I Actually currently writing a book on this kenosis theory issue that I just brought up just a second ago. Something I've been working on. Yeah.

So kenosis theory finds its word from Kano from Philippians chapter 2 verse 7 where it says that he emptied himself. And this came about in the 1800s, I believe by a German Lutheran pastor that Was attempting to try to Put together verses such as Jesus Christ not knowing the time of the second coming or not knowing the time that the father knows and that he grew in knowledge and and all these kind of things and this German guy came together and said well that has to be Because when he emptied himself you willingly Let his divine attributes go so that then thus he could Perform these certain things only through the means of the Holy Spirit and to dive deeper into this.

Many of those that that believe in a kenosis theory would even say that Jesus Christ has not Regained those attributes standing at the right hand of the father now that he's still divested of such and Because of that that all the miracles he was able to do through the Holy Spirit that you and I can also do so these Would be people that would be continuationists in their understanding of the how the Holy Spirit works and so that that's that's kind of really a fundamental quick rundown of what kenosis theory is and When we look at Philippians chapter 2, I could almost probably quote the whole chapter to you right in verse 3.

It says have this Have humility that was also like in Christ Jesus that you would regard one another more highly than yourself. And let me actually look here. Verse verse 4 says Do not merely look out for your own personal interests.

But also for the interests of others have this attitude that was also in Christ Jesus. Which I would pause the kenosis theory person right there and say if the emptying of Christ was emptying himself of divine attributes According to verse 5.

This is an attitude that you can have in yourself. What divine attribute can you empty yourself of. The answer is no. We don't have divine attributes right as far as the right and the cool attributes go.

And so that it's obvious to where this context is already going and speaking about humility because we've already been encouraged to have such like Christ and have an attitude that was in ourself and then it prefaces what this at this this humility was with Christ.

It says that who although he existed in the form of God being that he was truly fully 100 Attributely God the word we said did not regard.

Truly. That's right, that's my truly fully 100 truly 100.

God. That's right. Crossing all the T's and I'll come back to why I think. Right. I'll come back and say why I think it's important to iterate this kind of stuff, right? Right, because then in verse 7 it says so he wrote verse 6.

He says he regards equality with the God not a thing to be grasped. And I would encourage anyone to think about this for a moment. God the Son. He says glorify me with the glory I had with you before the world ever was God.

All three persons are equal co-equal co-eternal. So they are therefore deserving of all glory and praise and worship where was Christ at in his incarnation and also in his rejection and Also in the front of Pontius Pilate here in crucify crucify.

Where was he at when he walked the hill of Calvary and where was he at when he was pierced? Jesus the Christ was giving us the perfect example of humility because where was the father at? Receiving that which he was deserving of worship Holy holy holy from the angels of the high and that singing has not ceased.

And so when you see the equality with God I think not to be grasped big Christ the slain sheep that was led to the slam the the lamb that was led to this led To the slaughter. Did he ever open his voice?

Open his mouth to receive the worship from the Roman soldiers crucifying him as they ought to have. No, you don't see that and so now going into verse 7 It's very clear what we see it says but emptied himself, which that word is canoe.

And that word can mean to empty oneselves and it also has an example of such of that word using as to In reputation to to lower one's reputation is essentially what that word can mean and so in the context.

That's absolutely what it means. It says he emptied himself taking the form of the bondservant and being made in the likeness of men. So he he humbled himself the word became flesh. He became like a man.

So so now when I say that Jesus Christ is fully man I mean that he is fully man without sin that he does not have the the sin nature that I guy you and I have and Therefore he can be our better federal head because he is a man and therefore he can stand in the place of man.

Right and not only this. We see that he took the form of a bondservant and being made in the likeness of man and being found in the appearance Of man, he humbled himself. So now it's speaking of more than just humbling himself by being a man.

He humbled himself to becoming obedient. And so he humbles himself to be obedient and then it doesn't even stop there. It says to the point of death and it doesn't even stop there. This is the humility of Christ death upon a cross and therefore now we see what the result of that humility that takes place of Jesus Christ is therefore God highly exalted him and Bestowed on him the name which is above every name At the name of Jesus Christ.

Every knee shall bow those who are in heaven and on earth and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father and So when when we talk about I we need to do this when we talk about the Trinity to which that's the dangerous part of using analogies and trying to Rationalize these things without just going right to the scripture on this, right?

We need to say God The Father is 100 God. God the Son is 100 God the Holy Spirit is 100 God. There's not three gods are the only one God and yet each one of these three persons claim to be God, right?

We need to we need to state the facts and Say I can't always rationalize all these news truths. But I have a Bible that absolutely tells me this likewise in the the human the person Jesus Christ. We see 100 God 100 man, and I don't need to rationalize those things because the text tells me such and I can't escape that.

And I think that that's where being. That's where like this the whole kenosis theory thing it went. It was this whole ordeal where we had to confront this this person in front of elders and and go through this whole ordeal with them and I Yeah, that's a whole different story for another day maybe another podcast down the road.

But I'm very very passionate about Jesus. Yeah, Jesus the Christ being fully or 100 or truly God Fully 100 truly man. It's it's very very important to how we understand the text and you can see how people abuse text such as Philippians 2.

To change it to saying what it does not say in there.

Right because they don't they don't like the Jesus that's been revealed because of their father the devil. Yeah. Amen to that. Amen to that.

Essentially, it's. Yeah, this person even went then therefore to denying the Trinity denying Bad bad stuff and it all stems from a lot of this kenosis theory stuff that he believed in. So I hope he doesn't believe in that anymore.

I hope he repented and believed in the gospel and knows Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Truly man truly God. No doubt, but I don't know.

Yeah, a lot of times it's hard to reach anyone that that goes that far into the deep end, oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, all right, so only begotten the Eternal Son. Hypostatic Union. The Eternal Son took on flesh and and by taking on flesh.

That the two natures did not mix so Divinity did not mix with humanity. Humanity did not mix with divinity and the two are one and that is Christ.

Right. Right. We on the same page, right? And now just as a kind of a I don't know if y 'all are Familiar with this like there's a backdrop to this language about the two being. Where it says, you know, they were you know.

Two whole perfect and distinct natures were inseparably joined together in one person without Converting one into the other or mixing them together to produce a different or blended nature. If they're you know back in the like past there was this idea of like This wholly different thing that when when God became incarnate.

They were like, well, we don't really know how to understand this. Something different some new thing came about and the church has been like no fam. That is not right. There isn't there wasn't some new substance some new.

It that came about with with the incarnation but because the scriptures obviously teach that Christ is God the Christ is man. Mm-hmm both at the same time. So for anybody watching that was unfamiliar with you know, you hear language like that like what's this about mixing?

Well, cuz there was some heretic at some point in the past who was like, I got a stupid idea. We're like, no you stupid. Yeah, it's called monophysitism.

Let me read the Chalcedonian definition real quick. Yeah, so the Chalcedonian definition Is particularly speaking just about the hypostatic Union. It says we then following the saintly fathers All with one consent each man to confess one in the same Son our Lord Jesus Christ the same perfect in Godhead also perfect in manhood truly God and truly man of Reasonable soul in body come substantial with the Father according to the Godhead and come substantial with us according to the manhood in All things like unto us without sin begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead And in these last days for us and for our salvation Born of the Virgin Mary the mother of God according to the manhood One and the same Christ Son Lord only begotten to be acknowledged here it is in two natures.

Unconfusedly, they're making up words here. It seems like unchangeably indivisibly inseparably the distinction of two natures being by means by no means Takes away by the Union but rather the property of each nature being preserved and concurring in one person and subsistent not part Or divided into two persons but one in the same Son And only begotten God the word the Lord Jesus Christ as the prophets from the beginning Have declared concerning him and the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us in the creed Of the saintly fathers has handed down to us So it goes into great detail About Not mixing the two.

And so you can see that you know these these men were We're definitely studying and and trying to figure out how to explain it in a way Again without using any kind of analogy or anything like that. And again, I'm against analogies but Sometimes you have to break it down to someone who's a little less.

I don't want to say bright I know the Bible speaks about it doesn't see me yet. Yeah, well Yeah. Well the Bible now, you know speaking to the the Greek and the barbarian. Yeah, you know I know this because I'm a barbarian, right?