Hypostatic union

All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are live Welcome to open -air theology.

My name is Jeff. I am one of the pastors at Covenant Reformed Baptist Church and I also have a

YouTube channel where this video will be displayed It's called my two cents with Jeff rice.

That's since with a Z I'm also a co -owner of post tinderbrush Lux Bible rebonding and also have

Post -tenderbrush Lux beard care now the beard care is something that we just did. Here's the bottle.

I just got it bottled last night This is Wittenberg. That's what I have in right now.

You can see the Nice shine to it smells good. You have a beard hit me up for the

Greg. You need to hit me up Okay, okay, I don't check the orders though I'm waiting for it, man.

Okay. It's coming to you. All right So my go or your go, okay

So again, so again as you know last week for those who were here, my name is

Greg mooring jr I am the former pastor of Hagerman Valley Baptist Church where my good friend

Braden is currently the pastor I Counted again a joy to to be here.

So as it is right now I'm I'm sitting in limb in pastoral limbo at the moment you know waiting for wherever God would go but glad I get the opportunity to hang out with these two brothers here to discuss a an incredibly important topic so hopefully this will be a

Blessing to you and a with the hat shout out to Jared Payne from a Pilgrim's Coffers a

Pilgrim's Coffers theology And I'm Braden Patterson With like Greg was saying

I am the pastor of Valley Baptist Church I'm very privileged to be a part of that healthy church over there and I just be able to glorify

God on a daily basis with a Bride that loves and adores him. So it's a it's a blessing to be over there.

You know, so I Do a YouTube channel called reformed ex -warman where it's just centered on different theological discussions

The purpose of edifying the Christian as well as calling to the LDS to repent and believe in the gospel

All right. So how y 'all gentlemen doing? Better than I deserve better than you deserve.

Amen to that man. So normally we started a topic A couple weeks ago

Braden and myself going through Matthew 24 And as y 'all notice, it's

Wednesday. It's not Thursday So we had to come a day earlier because I had planned on you know having this tomorrow

But I forgot that it's my wife's birthday You've got the days messed up, right, you know

Because she had planned for us to do something tonight But then she changed the plans to tomorrow and because she changed because she made the plans for the night

I was thinking it was Wednesday and Well, you know then she changed it turns out her birthday is tomorrow

And so I can't have the podcast because she'd take my head off. So we got to go on a date and stuff like that What you know?

Hallelujah, it'd be fun. So but I still want to get a podcast in so I reached out to these brothers and we're doing it tonight and Next week we'll get back on Matthew 24 and you know get some blood bowl and stuff like that But tonight tonight our topic is the hypostatic

Union so if for someone who's never heard of the hypostatic

Union, what would just be like a you know like a You know,

I'm throwing you a baseball and you're gonna hit it out the park. Just a real quick answer of what? How would you explain the hypostatic

Union? Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah Yeah, Jesus is truly God and he's truly man and yeah And that would that I guess that's where I would make the correction to you their brain

What what Jeff said that it isn't that he's fully because it's that he's truly because he's fully

He's an all -millennial idealist I mean it fully doesn't really mean fully does it?

Yeah, it's spiritualized. It does mean fully It does

All right, so my plan is is that we're gonna look at the first three

So we're gonna look at the chapter 8 of the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689

And we're gonna read the first three paragraphs and we're also going to look at some historical creeds

And we're and then we're going to just talk about the hypostatic Union With one of y 'all brothers want to volunteer to read the first paragraph or I can read it.

It doesn't matter but Yeah, I'm more than happy to do that first paragraph It says God was pleased in his eternal purpose to choose and ordain the

Lord Jesus is only begotten Son according to the Covenant made between them to be the mediator between God and humanity

God chose him to be a Believe be prophet priest and king and to be head and Savior of the church

The heir of all things the judge of the world from all eternity God gave the Son to a people to be his offspring

In time these people would be redeemed called justified sanctified and glorified by him

So that last little bit right there is speaking about the covenant of redemption But I want to before we go on to the other part.

I want to talk about Up here towards the beginning. It says God was pleased in his eternal purpose purpose being the covenant of redemption to Choose and ordain the

Lord Jesus his only begotten So for someone that might be listening that might have heard these words all their life

They're reading the Bible. They they see it the only begotten But they have no clue

What only begotten means? What does? it mean that Jesus is the only begotten because we know begotten means son of so whenever we read in the

The The scriptures and we see the you know, what everyone skips and they don't read

It's the the genealogy and it says so -and -so is the you know begotten

You know, and so and so how would you explain? Jesus being the only begotten

May I take a stab at that? Go ahead. Yeah, so I would say this is where it kind of when it comes down to And initially from Yeah, I may butcher the word but you know monogamous

Which we find in particularly like a John 3 16 for God's love the world That he gave his only begotten

Son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life Right. I know some modern translations will take

And there's some reason for it. Well, they'll take monogamous to be the one and only correct,

I I Personally prefer only begotten One we see

I think it fits One better but within as you're mentioning there the begats, you know, so -and -so begat this first we got this begat begat begat begat

That I think that it's an important word that is used There and then we also see within the context of the creeds and confessions

We see here in the 1689 it used him as the only begotten and then even going back as we you know, we'll hear later but going into I want to say the not the

Athanasian So the nice Got not made.

Yes Before you finish answering let me read that right quick. So the nice saying Creed now This is what

I read at my church So I took the I out and put we as I read this before the church We all confess this we believe in one

God the Father Almighty maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible and in One Lord Jesus Christ the only begotten

Son of God begotten of the Father before all worlds God of God light of light very

God of very God Begotten not made being of one substance with the

Father by whom all things are made And I think that that distinction, you know when we get rid of begotten or only begotten and only say one and only

I Think we're just we're cutting ourselves off from that whole, you know tradition

I know I'm a Baptist and I'm talking about tradition. It seems you know, it's okay your reform yeah, so there's so but That being said the idea of being begotten is that he is the one who like comes forth from?

That he is the only One from that proceeds forth from the

Father That he was not he's not a created being But that he is eternally the

Son of God Correct. Yeah, that's the definition I would give Yeah, it's so that so to be begotten is that he especially when you if the context of the scriptures as a whole

That the scriptures as a whole Point out, you know will point or pointing to this time that there would be this begotten one and When it comes in as this well, that's

Jesus It's the Lord Jesus Christ and then we come to find out that actually he he's been forgotten from all of eternity that he's not a

He's not a created being but in his

Economy As is the very Son of God You know, he is he is truly the

Son of God but just From from eternity past You know, he's always been that way, you know, he's the you know in that and which then of course, you know is

Certainly Brayden can throw, you know, don't you know, maybe giving him a chance in alley up here to dunk is that we see

You know with them with Mormonism Mormonism and other false doctrines

Will have where You know, God had many sons no he didn't he had one and That's the

Lord's the only begotten the only or if we want to even go with the modern terminology the one and only son

Yeah, it's the Lord Jesus Christ. So Alright, and would you say that that is a good argument to to have with Mormons?

you know about the only begotten meaning that that that Jesus, you know, like it means that he is

You know The only begotten Son meaning that he is eternally from all eternity the

Son of God He was made the Son of God. He always Was the Sun existed as such?

Yeah No, I that's where I agree with the definition 100 % and and the reasoning of what that word means

But the challenge is is that I think as as modern times go on that we start seeing the challenges within English and our understanding of things today and so I would actually prefer a

Different word such as the only unique one or something along those lines one and only for for the specific reason that somebody will go to Then let me explain this out as thoroughly as I possibly can

Matthew 1 they say, okay You see so on and so on They got so on and so on begat so on so on begat and they don't understand that This is a different Greek word that's being used here

And so they see that English word begat and then they go and see that Jesus Christ is the only begotten

Son of the Father and now you have the Father becoming coming down to earth and having physical sex with Mary to physically offspring

Jesus and and so it's this this cultish idea that they can push using English words that play off of one another and so I would

I would be of the preferring of Using only unique one if I went into a conversation with an

LDS person that that tries to attempt to use begotten I'm gonna go to the definition of what begotten is and say

I Another way that you can translate. This is the only unique Son of God or something along those lines and say that word over here that says begot

Is not the same word and definition Nor of the Greek nor the same

Greek word period that is used over there And so these words can't be interchanged with each other. And so I think that there's a little bit of confusion

Yeah that the Colts play on big -time because yeah, yeah I think the creeds that definitely hit that, you know, like in the

Nicene Creed where I Where I read and it pointed out and like it says only begotten three

Two or three times but it says and you know God of God light of light very

God of very God begotten not made Then it says being of one substance with the father.

So this substance here is homoousius right that that same substance not assembling that Everything that the you know homo mean the same

Lucius meaning Substance. Yeah Thank you.

My mind just kind of went blank for a second. And and so Pointing out that that everything that the father is

Jesus is to you. Yeah, like it's the same substance and and so to Speak a little bit more on that too

I think with talking to a Christian to a Christian that understands these things that type of terminology is fine and fantastic like I I'm gonna tell you

Jesus Christ is the only begotten son like correct because you know what I mean When I say that right, but when

I when I I would hope but when I when I go and talk to an LDS person I Will not use the word begotten because I know immediately where their mind is going and how they're going to justify them

That means that Jesus Christ is the Son of God Being the literal offspring of God and so there there's certain terminology that I'll avoid with certain

Certain groups that will play on these English words and try to Use them for their advantage use them for their

Their taking in that sense, which is not right at them whatsoever Now and I'd have to see where to find interesting about it is how the emphasis on the idea of the begotten versus the only

You know, the only is Is certainly part of the emphasis that ought to be made, you know that they kind of avoid it.

So he's begotten Yeah, but he's the only one yes, so specifically within the the

LDS Framework to that that that's where more this is not a modern teaching that they would be teaching on openly

But in the days of Brigham Young and around that generation They were speaking very clearly that God the

Father came down and had physical Sex with Mary and that Jesus is the only one that is physically done that with so therefore it fulfills only

Be gotten in the term of sexual product product son, you know, okay

See what I'm saying? Like that that's where you have to be very very yeah Particular in the words that you use when it comes to LDS stuff.

And so I know I usually to be honest with you I I stay away from using the word son of God until I can start diving into Jesus Christ and his terms and what they mean and Until I Establish that he is

God I won't even start coming out and saying Jesus Christ is the Son of God in that sense because I know exactly where the mind

Is going right? I know that they're they're attacking his deity by that I know that they're they're they're blaspheming him in those ways and they just don't conceive what the

Son of God that title means right in this in this in this gets back to you know, the discussion here is you know, you

Understanding who he is and You know the the unity that has had in his human nature and in his nature as God.

Absolutely That Wrong, and I'm maybe jumping ahead here a little bit.

But if we get that wrong it It impacts everything. I mean it impacts our eternity.

Yeah, let's go ahead and read Section two because it's gonna touch again

On you know start with we ain't got to worry about jumping ahead when section two

Okay, so the Son of God the second person of the Trinity is truly and eternally

God He is the brightness of the Father's glory the same in substance and equal with him

He made the world and sustains and governs everything he has made with the fullness

That he has made When the fullness of time came he right here.

He took upon himself Human nature Okay, let's just stop right there for a second

So this is what we was talking about for that definition of Him being truly

God truly man the hypostatic Union Jesus took upon himself Human nature.

I like how Made me find it real quick In the affinations

Creed there's a spot in here that says the right faith then is

That we believe and confess That the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God is

God and man perfect God perfect man of a rational soul in human flesh subsiding equal to the father as touching

His Godhead and inferior to the father as touching his manhood who although He be

God and man yet He is not two but one

Christ One not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh right here, but by taking of the manhood into God so Jesus is not the hypostatic

Union is not God turning into flesh, but God taken on flesh

Right Any any thoughts there before we finish reading? I?

Just think that's a you know like it's an important distinction I kind of cut out there part of what you were reading there

So I I might have missed some of your guys's conversation, but you know it's it's important to make those distinctives, right?

because if we say that The word when he became flesh he fizzed and became this different substance

We're confessing the the heresy of monophysitism Right we say that the word divested himself of any divine attribute now

We're confessing the the heresy of kenosis theory. We have to we have to recognize which I'm going back to to the definition of the hypostatic

Union truly man truly God is is is is totally awesome, and I Agree with that.

I do prefer using fully God and fully man because of Heretic I ran into that believed in the kenosis theory that said

Jesus Christ is God But he divested himself of divine attributes, and if I cut off your arm right now

You're still Jeff right if I cut off your leg. You're still great right well. God can cut off his attributes and still be

God Terrible terrible reasoning, and there's some very strong scriptures to go against that and so that's why

I use that yet fully because I'm saying No, he's fully Attributely 100 % truly

God Fully truly 100 % a lot of people will use yeah a lot of people use the percent thing

They'll say he's 100 % God 100 % man meaning. Yeah, he's not a demigod No, like like like Greek mythology would teach 50 % man 50 %

God Yeah, what we're saying is is God took on flesh And I'm not really big on analogies when it comes to any part of the

Godhead But I found a real simple one and again And I don't find any heresy wrapped up in it

But I just try to tell someone the same way that you're whenever your hand Fills the gloves when you put on the glove the way your hand feels that glove

God filled a human body That human body is a human body, but what filled that human body is

God himself But but the thing is is that your hand never becomes the glove

Correct, but but with Christ, well, yeah, but you're talking about Resurrection No, no,

I'm saying is that so that you you know that your your hand. Yes. It took on the glove But the glove in your hand

Never embodied a a single solitary Person, you know or a single existence again.

It's an analogy that right Every analogy

I'm not trying to You know heresy hunt. No. No. No. Well, well, I've checked it a bunch of times.

There's no heresy there But again, I wouldn't I wouldn't I definitely wouldn't try to do this for the

Trinity But the idea is is that you know when

Jesus came up out the ground like Jesus now is is Has a body in in you know in heaven.

So would you say that he is even now truly man? Yes. Yes. Yes That that's that's not our

I mean our hope one of our resurrected bodies It's to be like his is to be like his and we'll still be a man woman

Yeah, but the two the idea here is that the two don't mix my hand does not become the glove

Yeah, the glove does not become my hand Yeah, same way with the human nature and the nature of deity

Right. Yes the need you know, that's you know, the definition the idea that they the two mixture or the two and I think this might even be like an oligoneer statement

Describing this that those two natures never mix. Yeah, it's definitely the

Chalcedonian No, yeah, like these never these never mix But yet they they're embodied and this is this is the mystery of the of the hypostatic union

Absolutely, because we can go only so far without You know running into dangerous territory

But You know, it's an it's a matter of we have the

Lord Jesus Christ the God -man himself Being truly

God he you know in his in his Nature as deity his all the attributes of deity it absolutely

But then as man He is all that man is yet without sin

Yep, and He he doesn't Whereas in the

Trinity we have three persons in one nature, you know of being

God You know one substance in Christ in the

Lord Jesus We have one person With two natures.

Yeah that You know That don't mix and in this you even have you know the the two wills

You know as God and as man And this is one of those things that we see throughout the you know, the gospel accounts

Is is the Lord Jesus? You know you go is this a matter of where his his deity is is

Touching his humanity at that moment where there's something, you know, the deity is shining through or it's just a situation where you hear you have a man who has no sin and So because he has no sin and he's fully relying upon the

Holy Spirit That you know, he's at 12 years old able to school the the you know, the teachers of the law

Well, it wasn't because he was God at that moment that the that the teachers were like, whoa this this kid knows the stuff it was

It's what it's what happens when you don't have to worry about sin And you've and you've been walking, you know with God and so it's a great mystery

And it you know, I would challenge anybody who's seriously who is

Serious about this stuff and to actually sit down and consider who

Christ is as God and as man and Tell me if you get bored, right?

Yeah If you do you don't have a pulse All right, so let's finish reading what this says

I know I've been talking a lot someone else want to finish this but this paragraph paragraph to paragraph to I'll take that Stop right here at he took upon himself human nature

Okay, so Starting that sentence over it says when the fullness of time came he took upon himself human nature

With all the essential properties and common weaknesses of it, but without sin

He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Virgin Mary The Holy Spirit came down upon her and the power of the

Most High overshadowed her thus he was born of a woman from the tribe of Judah a descendant of Abraham and David in fulfillment of the scriptures

Two whole perfect and distinct natures were inseparably joined together in one person without converting and this is what we're talking about here without converting one into the other or Mixing them together to produce a different or blended nature

This person is truly God and truly man yet one

Christ the only mediator between God and humanity Amen, man

Absolutely Brighton amen. Yeah 100 % You know,

I so I'm actually currently writing a book on This kenosis theory issue that I just brought up just a second ago

Something I've been working on Yeah so kenosis theory finds its word from canoe from Philippians chapter 2 verse 7 where it says that he emptied himself and This came about in the 1800s,

I believe by a German Lutheran pastor that Was attempting to try to Put together

Verses such as Jesus Christ not knowing the time of the second coming or not knowing the time That the father knows and that he grew in knowledge and and all these kind of things and this

German guy Came together and said well that has to be because when he emptied himself you willingly

Let his divine attributes go so that then thus he could Perform these certain things only through the means of the

Holy Spirit and to dive deeper into this Many of those that that believe in the kenosis theory would even say that Jesus Christ has not

Regained those attributes standing at the right hand of the father now that he's still divested of such and Because of that that all the miracles he was able to do through the

Holy Spirit that you and I can also do so these Would be people that would be continuationists in their understanding of the how the

Holy Spirit works And so that that's that's kind of really a fundamental quick rundown of what kenosis theory is and When we look at Philippians chapter 2,

I could almost probably quote the whole chapter to you right in verse 3. It says have this Have humility that was also like in Christ Jesus that you would regard one another more highly than yourself

And let me actually look here Verse verse 4 says

Do not merely look out for your own personal interests But also for the interests of others have this attitude that was also in Christ Jesus Which I would pause the kenosis theory person right there and say if the emptying of Christ was emptying himself of divine attributes

According to verse 5. This is an attitude that you can have in yourself What divine attribute can you empty yourself of the answer is no

We don't have divine attributes right as far as the right in a couple attributes go And so that it's obviously where this context is already going and speaking about humility because we've already been encouraged to have such like Christ And how to that was in ourself and then it prefaces what this at this this humility was with Christ It says a few although he existed in the form of God being that he was truly fully 100 %

Attributely God the word we said did not regard on quality Truly, that's right

That's my truly fully 100 truly God That's right

Crossing all the T's I think Right. I'll come back and say why

I think it's important to iterate this kind of stuff, right? Right because then in verse 7 it says so he wrote verse 6

He says he regards equality with the God not a thing to be grasped And I would encourage anyone to think about this for a moment

God the Son He says glorify me with the glory

I had with you before the world ever was God All three persons are equal co -equal co -eternal.

So they are therefore deserving of all glory and praise and worship where was Christ at in his incarnation and also in his rejection and Also in the front of Pontius Pilate here in crucify crucify

Where was he at when he walked the hill of Calvary and where was he at when he was pierced? Jesus the Christ was giving us the perfect example of humility because where was the father at?

Receiving that which he was deserving of worship Holy holy holy from the angels up high and that scene has not ceased

And so when you see the equality with God I think not to be grasped did Christ the slain sheep that was led to the slam the the lamb that was led to this led to the slaughter

Did he ever open his voice? Open his mouth to receive the worship from the

Roman soldiers crucifying him as they ought to have No, you don't see that and so now going into verse 7.

It's very clear what we see It says but emptied himself which that word is cano And that word can mean to empty oneselves and it also has an example of such of that word using as to In reputation to to lower one's reputation is essentially what that word can mean and so in the context

That's absolutely what it means It says he emptied himself taking the form of the bondservant and being made in the likeness of men

So he he humbled himself The word became flesh he became like a man so so now when

I say that Jesus Christ is fully man I mean that he is fully man without sin that he does not have the the sin nature that I guy you and I have and Therefore he can be our better federal head because he is a man and therefore he can stand in the place of man

Right, not only this we see that He took the form of a bondservant and being made in the likeness of man and being found in the appearance of man

He humbled himself. So now it's speaking of more than just humbling himself by being a man. He humbled himself to becoming obedient and So he humbles himself to be obedient and then it doesn't even stop there

It says to the point of death and it doesn't even stop there. This is the humility of Christ death upon a cross

And therefore now we see what the result of that humility that takes place of Jesus Christ Is therefore

God highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name that at the name of Jesus Christ every knee shall bow those who are in heaven and on earth and that Every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is

Lord to the glory of God the Father And so when when we talk about I we need to do this when we talk about the

Trinity to which that's the dangerous part of using analogies and trying to Rationalize these things without just going right to the scripture on this, right?

We need to say God The Father is 100 % God God the Son is 100 %

God the Holy Spirit is 100 % God There's not three gods are the only one God and yet each one of these three persons claim to be

God, right? We need to we need to state the facts and say I can't always rationalize all these truths

But I have a Bible that absolutely tells me this likewise in the the human the person

Jesus Christ We see 100 % God 100 % man and I don't need to rationalize those things because the text tells me such and I can't escape that And I think that that's where being

That's where like this the whole kenosis theory thing it went It was this whole ordeal where we had to confront this this person in front of elders and and go through this whole ordeal with them and I Yeah, that's a whole different story for another day maybe another podcast down the road

But I'm very very passionate about Jesus. Yeah, Jesus the Christ being fully or 100 % or truly

God Fully 100 % truly man. It's it's very very important to how we understand the text and you can see how people abuse texts such as Philippians 2

To change it to saying what it does not say in there Right because they don't they don't like the

Jesus that's been revealed because they're of their father the devil. Yeah. Amen to that Amen to that essentially, it's

Yeah, this person even went then therefore to denying the Trinity denying Bad bad stuff and it all stems from a lot of this kenosis theory stuff that we believed in So I hope he doesn't believe in that anymore

I hope you repent and believed in the gospel and knows Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior Truly man truly

God no doubt, but I don't know Yeah, a lot of times it's hard to reach anyone that that goes that far into the deep end, oh, yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah So, all right, so only begotten the

Eternal Son Hypostatic Union the Eternal Son took on flesh and and and by taking on flesh

That the two natures did not mix so Divinity did not mix with humanity.

Humanity did not mix with divinity and the two are one and that is

Christ right Right. We on the same page, right? And now just as a kind of a

I don't know if y 'all are Familiar with this like there's a backdrop to this language about the two being

Where it says, you know They were you know two whole perfect and distinct natures were inseparably joined together in one person without Converting one into the other or mixing them together to produce a different or blended nature but there you know back in the like past there was this idea of like This wholly different thing that when when

God became incarnate They were like, well, we don't really know how to understand this Something different some new thing came about and the church has been like no fam.

That is not right There isn't there wasn't some new substance some new it

That came about with with the incarnation but because the scriptures obviously teach that Christ is

God the Christ is man Mm -hmm both at the same time

So for anybody watching that was unfamiliar with you know, you hear language like that like what's this about mixing?

Well, cuz there was some heretic at some point in the past who was like, I got a stupid idea

We're like, no you stupid. Yeah, it's called monophysitism Let me read the

Chalcedonian definition real quick. Yeah, so the Chalcedonian definition Is particularly speaking just about the hypostatic

Union It says we then following the saintly fathers All with one consent each man to confess one in the same

Son our Lord Jesus Christ the same perfect in Godhead also perfect in manhood truly

God and truly man of Reasonable soul in body consubstantial with the

Father according to the Godhead and consubstantial with us according to the manhood in all things like unto us without sin begotten before all ages of the

Father according to the Godhead and In these last days for us and for our salvation

Born of the Virgin Mary the mother of God according to the manhood One and the same

Christ Son Lord only begotten to be acknowledged here it is in two natures

Unconfusedly, they're making up words here. It seems like unchangeably indivisibly inseparably the distinction of two natures being by means by no means

Takes away by the Union but rather the property of each nature being preserved

Concurring in one person and subsistence not part or divided into two persons

But one in the same Son and only begotten God the Word the Lord Jesus Christ as the prophets from the beginning

Have declared concerning him and the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us in the creed of the saintly

Fathers has handed down to us So it goes into great detail

About Not mixing the two

And so you can see that you know these these men were

We're definitely studying and and trying to figure out how to explain it in a way

Again without using any kind of analogy or anything like that and again,

I'm against analogies but Sometimes you have to break it down to someone who's a little less.

I don't want to say bright I know the Bible speaks about it doesn't see me yet Yeah, well

Yeah. Well the Bible now, you know speaking to the the Greek and the barbarian.

Yeah, you know I know this because I'm a barbarian, right? and Tell me that that Jesus Christ was like salt and pepper in a can like just a

I think the whole problem with You know, like like with the hand in the glove.

Yeah Yeah, the reason why I would say that it's not a good analogy, but it is a way that it's an analogy

Yeah, it's analogy that breaks down. It's the fact that the hand and the glove are not

One body, right? Yeah. Yeah Because it says that it's one

Christ, right and so that the glove never becomes a part of the body

And yeah, if it did it would mix but somehow what's kind of like with with the

Trinity, you know, you would never Reason why you can't properly give an analogy because there's nothing like it

No, like we have things that we could say are three but they're

There are three and one but each one is not the one, you know Like if you just take which

I'm this is a heresy, okay, but if you touch earth Yeah, but if okay, tell me which heresy this is.

So if you take earth, right? So you have one earth, but the earth is made of three steps.

That's water isn't Yes, yes, so so someone say, you know, the earth is is one earth but but but but the earth consists of water sky and land

All right now the problem with that analogy is is that the land is an earth the water is an earth and sky is an earth and So are you can say well my shampoo is three and one like like there's nothing that can explain the

Trinity Yeah, yes

That's a good analogy Yes We're talking about God.

We're saying that you know, we're saying that there's one God But there's three persons and each person is the one

God and there's nothing that can explain that And so we have to be very very careful when we when we articulate it

I like that's why I like to use the word Subsistence is because that's another word that people don't know and so I just keep on adding on words upon what you didn't say

Probably not either but Well, he tries to act like a

Greek right there, you know, there was the barbarian that's right We just nodded and pretend that we understood him

Well, here's the thing like I find one of the things I appreciate about these, you know our our fathers in the faith that They recognize

You know, they they gave enough of a definition for you to step back and go, okay

I have My grasp on that is enough to understand it at least on an elementary level

But they didn't Dig so deep into it

Where the mystery is removed You know, you know, you know like that they that they that it's obviously the way they're writing it's so careful to say

This is what we get. This is what the Bible has said But we can't go any further to go any further you know is

Is a place where God has not given us Room to play around in that God has he's told us so much and We're to use our mind to think through like these men did and go

Wow Let's think through the processes and have have a discussion like we're having right now as we we talk about who

Christ is As as the God man, but then to be able to step back like when we're like, yeah that you know

That glove the hand of the glove analogy Going a little too far there brother, you know sort of thing because it's so It's so different We don't under quite understand it and the reality is we don't even truly understand

God himself So much so that he had to not just in the special revelation of his word

And in general revelation But he had to become a man for us to even have some sense of truth coming to understand who he is

Because he is so he's holy he's so other and Then that this other one that this holy one

Give me a second. I think I either just got slain in the spirit or slain in the ear right that That this holy one

That he became us that that this one who is outside of time stepped into time while yet still

Being outside of it. Yeah, this is one of the things that I Who was upholding the universe who was upholding all things by the word of his power?

when the Lord Jesus Christ Was as I go in the womb of Mary The Lord Jesus Christ.

Oh, yeah, the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord. Jesus was upholding the womb that was containing him

How do you how do you? wrestle with that Other than to stop and say, okay

Jesus is upholding this that the very womb that was containing him in his humanity was being upheld by him

That That all of this stuff that's happened, you know that It ought to give you stop you ought to pause and go

Who is this God? Who is he that we serve? How how can this great

God? Become like us How could he condescend to be one of us?

And take on something that which he did not have and Yet it not be a stain or Upon who he is already, you know,

I don't know and I'm okay with that Mm -hmm.

I think it's it's Thinking on that. I mean there there's so many times that we can think of the beautiness of the beautifulness of that Right that in the narrow nail pierced hands was the one that uphold the world that was piercing him that the one that says to tell us

I Was upholding the world that was crucifying with the power of his word that these things are

Co -eternal truths that are unseparable and that's the

That's that's where I think that like you were saying Greg that these these church fathers especially in the 1689 and other creeds as well

For sure, they they state the facts and they they leave the mystery, right?

they don't they don't go further than what the text says and they leave it at that and I think as a

Christian as Christians, I think it's important to to do that and If there is any additional thing that we put we say that this is only going to This is so we can rationalize

All Those kind of things and just saying that it's gonna fall short and it's analogy it's going to not do

God justice and then in this full way of explaining him and and And leave it at what

Scripture explains to that. So, you know what I mean? I think that that's very I think any and any analogy that we give not necessarily that's coming, you know, speaking of the

Godhead or Or the two natures of Christ no matter what every analogy falls short yeah, and so So it's it's it's really tough whenever because like me

I'm a storyteller like if you listen in to To my preaching or whatever like I don't write down analogies.

I just have like in the moment Things you know that takes place and and sometimes

I'll listen to it. I'm like, hey, that was really good Sometimes I'll say well, I think I messed it But yeah, it's always fun going back and listen to your own messages and thinking what did

I say? Yeah, but I'm definitely a story when

I explain a text for sure For sure. I hate it when

I tell explain a text and months down the road I have a change in my perspective of that text and I just am kicking myself non -stop about the well

Just wait till you become I still do that all the way through Matthew 24 For sure. Yeah for sure.

It'll kill me. It'll kill me All right. So paragraph three anyone want to read that one?

I'll take it since nobody's jumping on it So the Lord Jesus in his human nature united in this way

To the divine in the person of the Son was sanctified and anointed with the

Holy Spirit beyond measure He had in himself all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge

The father was pleased to make all fullness dwell in him so that being holy

Harmless undefiled and full of grace and truth. He was thoroughly qualified to carry out the office of mediator and Guarantor he did not take this office upon himself

But was called to it by his father Who put all power and judgment in his hand and commanded him to carry them out?

Again that's kind of points back to the paragraph one. I Believe it is worse, you know like in paragraph one

It says God was pleased in his eternal purpose and then you go over here to the the end it explains from all eternity

God gave the Son a people to be his offspring and To this people he would be

Redeemer called justified sanctified glorified by them and Then we get to over here to this last part but what of what you just read and it and It says that he was thoroughly qualified to carry out the office of mediator and Guarantor He did not take this office upon himself, but was called by the father by his father so this speaking of the eternal purpose the

Covenant of Redemption, so So if I was given an

Definition for the Covenant of Redemption, I would say the father purpose to save a people the son

Accomplishes the purpose by living the life We could not live taking upon himself the punishment and death that we deserve and the

Holy Spirit applies this purpose Through the message of what

Jesus Christ has done What would any of y 'all explain that differently? Um, I guess

I wouldn't necessarily But you know, it's other than to say intellectual No, but what

I would say is, you know for the person who you know Would go well, where's the Covenant of Redemption in the

Bible, correct? It's a chapter one. Well, and you you would not find the phrase covenant

Well, no, not the phrase right and so this is where what we need to you know For those who are like, what in the world are you talking about?

What's this Covenant of Redemption? Well, it's It's a theological shorthand for the truth that that that you just explained that this is what

God when we read through the New Testament and through the whole the scriptures we see that wait, this is what

God did and to be able to Define it or to give it a you know, at least a cool name

Covenant of Redemption. I love the name. Eternal Covenant. It's also called. Yeah, it's so it's

You know that that that's the thing for those who may object So well, that's not in the Bible Trinity isn't either the hypostatic

Union It's an ether but there are phrases that that we have come about with Or we've come up with that.

Are you even still here? great He disappeared he disappeared from me where he was gone with that though.

Is that The word Bible isn't in the word in the in the Bible There's many words that we use that we recognize doctrine

That we assign names to using those different things that we see in the scripture to give it a name

But just because a word isn't found in the Bible doesn't mean that the doctrine thereof isn't found within it

So the Covenant of Redemption is definitely found in the Bible as previous verses already mentioned an obvious Language and purpose of God that is found both in the

Old Testament and the New Testament The father didn't become flesh. The Holy Spirit didn't become flesh the son became flesh the

These are the the known as the economic Trinity that they they work differently.

They have different purposes that they they were working within the Covenant of Redemption Yeah, yeah, so we just got a comment

Just pointed out second Timothy 1 9 and No His internet appeared to have dropped so maybe he'll maybe he'll come back on in a minute

Hopefully he says He has saved us and called us

He has saved us and called us to a holy life not because of anything we have done but because of his own

Purpose in grace This grace was given to us in Christ before the beginning of time

And I would also point out Which I won't touch on this in my Sunday school class this week.

I'm talking about dealing with the sovereignty of God but Isaiah chapter 46 here he comes

Isaiah 46 beginning in verse 8 is this Yeah, remember the remember this and stand firm recall it to mind you transgressors

Remember the former things of oath for I am God and there is no other I am

God And there is none like me Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things that have not

Done saying my counsel shall stand and I will accomplish my purpose

Calling a bird of prey from the east and the man of my counsel from a far country

I have spoken and I will bring it to pass I Have purpose and I will do it and then when you contrast that to if we gave it over here to Ephesians 1

Beginning in the verse 3 it says blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessings in the heavenly places?

Even as he chose us before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before him in love he predestined us for adoption to himself as Sons through Jesus Christ according to the purpose of his will the praise and glory

Which he has blessed us in the beloved in him We have redemption the forgiveness of sins of our trespasses according to the riches of his grace

He is lavish upon us and all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will according to his purpose

Which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time to unite all things in him things in earth and things are in heaven

And you keep reading on the 14 you'll see the ministry of the Holy Spirit. So although those words are not there we definitely see

The definition that that's explained for it And one one thing

I wanted to point out. Well, I know the focus of tonight is the hypostatic Union, but Notice there in paragraph 3 and even will be in more importantly.

I'll say more importantly even in Ephesians 2 But what we see here in chapter 8 paragraph 3 of the 1689

It says that Christ did not take this office upon himself But was called to it by his father

That the father was the one Who sent the son? That the son didn't have to twist the arm of the father to do this

That it was the father who said son go And it was the son who said absolutely

And we see that in Scripture. Yeah. Yeah for God so loved the world that he sent he gave

All throughout John it talks about yeah since yeah, yeah and You know lest we and this is where you know getting into when we think of the hypostatic

Union We think of the ministry of Christ and who he is and to know that it was not

He didn't twist the father's arm To can try to convince him to do this

But it was the father's plan from all of eternity it was it was the whole Trinity's plan You know from from all of eternity

Why? Because God loves his people that it's

It's astounding to me. Yeah, if you just think about the fall of man and how and how we are sinful

And there's no way we can get to God. I mean the Bible is clear It tells us that God dwells in unapproachable light.

Okay, you can't approach him. All right Well, no one can come to the father unless they come through Jesus So we can't get to the father unless we go through Jesus, but again, no one can come to Jesus unless the father draws him

Right. All right. Did you just hear that? No one can get to Jesus unless they're drawn by the father No one can get to the father unless they're drawn

Unless they go through Jesus and yet God dwells in unapproachable light All right, we cannot get to God So God purposed because of our sinfulness, we can't get to him

God purpose to save us now How did he do so by sending his son? Right, and you know just see there that God dwells in unapproachable light.

So So he had to approach us Correct. He had to condescend You know, it's in it and if if again, if we're not taking the time to really consider this if this isn't

You know, I'm speaking to myself here that if we're not that when

When we have nothing else to think about that what is the thing that we think about if we're not thinking about this

If we're not chewing on this mulling over on this What better thing do you have to think about?

right All right. So before we go I have a question and all three of us to answer it and I just want us to with this answer for this question

To try to explain to people why this is important All right. So Brayden since you can be leaving at any time.

We'll go ahead and start with you. Okay, why? Why is the hypostatic union important?

Yeah, I think it's a great question I would first look into the garden that gives us a beautiful typology of what

Christ did for us is that In the garden you see God which is pre -incarnate

Christ walking in the garden finding man covering himself with the sinful works of their hand the fig leaves and it took him to remove that and to place the sacrifice of what was most likely a lamb that most likely was done by Pre -incarnate

Christ himself. And so when we look at Psalm chapter 51, I believe it is verse 6 It says

I have sinned against God and God alone when If you I like using this analogy so the analogies only go so far right, but I really like you know, they're good

I like them. They are good If if if one of you guys were to come over to my house and let's just say

I had a really expensive lamp One I spent $5 ,000 on right and you came into my house and you broke my lamp

Would it be forgiveness if I said, okay, I forgive you but you have to pay me back for it. Is that true forgiveness?

It's not that's not true forgiveness. Is it true forgiveness if I said, okay. Well, it's my lamp. You broke my $5 ,000 lamp

Okay, I forgive you. My son will pay the debt No, my son didn't own the lamp.

It was me that owned the lamp and So true forgiveness is that that I say to you don't worry about it.

You can go free I will pay the debt and so since it is God alone that I have sinned against He's the only one that I've transgressed against in this eternal sin debt kind of a way it took himself paying my debt upon a cross and Thus we we can see that Adam and Adam all man fell and So thus we have to have a federal head like man to stand in our place as well.

And so we see God Becoming man to be our better federal head to be our better Adam So that on the cross it is fully

God fully man paying the price of sin So that I might live and that that that's what forgiveness is

So then therefore since it is not just man that is dying upon that cross in that sense It is eternal since it is an eternal being that is doing such it is

He bore my sins upon the tree bore my sins bodily on upon the tree

It was the flesh of Christ as well You cannot separate these two truths that it was fully

God and fully man And it's an essential to Christianity if you deny any of that you can't be a

Christian Yeah Greg you look like you're in deep thought brother How would you answer that question

I tried why is it important Why is it important short answer because it is

I Mean that's it's a short answer. This is about as close to the For me because it is important, but why is it important?

One I would say because second because God decreed it is important so and around the issue here, but that the reality is you know, this is you know, we're getting back to you know, what what the six

I I don't want to put the 1689 over and above the scriptures because I'm not in any

Baptist who did should be Have their Baptist card removed but you know 1689 laces bow, but you know about what

Brayden has even been talking about a little bit with this idea of federal head of a representative

This is but this is ultimately what the scriptures teach the scriptures teach that that there is a

That from the foundation of the earth When God created man

In his own image that man man stood as God's representative

Before creation because you know Did the dogs know who

God was? Did the trees? Did the birds of the sky the fish of the fish of the water know

God well God's invisible So God him, you know gave, you know created an image bearer so to the point with that whenever a

This image bearer, however, he was treating God's other creatures he was representing the character of God to the rest of creation

And then also because man is a creature He represents creation before God so when

Adam fell the way that he did it was

It really is cosmic high treason Because what it does is now that we have been marred by sin that we are

Infected by sin that we are dead and trespasses and sins that even the good things that we do are

Our filthy rags like Isaiah 64 6 tells us that they're all an unclean thing that we are all an unclean thing and yet We still bear the image of God.

So whenever a dog when you cruelly Beat an animal or something. Well, what does it do it?

It speaks poorly of who God is and God's not gonna have that right, he's not gonna have a a representation a representative that Represents him wrong so And then also, you know creation is now completely fallen creation is completely

Marred by sin the Bible tells us that the the creation eagerly waits it groans for the day of redemption and so We've got this problem that exists and It's a treasonous problem

That God then not, you know almost immediately after this fall says hey, guess what?

I'm gonna fix this But it can't merely just Because God is holy and God is just and he has said

You know, he's put the punishment of death the judgment of death upon creation well

Something's got to pay you the debt to him but the problem is

No one can you know? You you can't

You can't See you can't have a creature withstand the full weight and wrath of God It's impossible

So out of necessity there has to be someone who could do all of this There has to be someone

Who is man and there has to be somebody who is God who can?

Satisfy that who can as man die on the behalf of men and as God can actually take it and so You know, like how's this gonna happen

Lord? When so he gives us hints he gives us types he gives us shadows to the place where You know that Eventually all of those types and shadows find themselves fulfilled in Christ and That Christ now because He is the last

Adam That he can now represent He can now represent fallen human not only fallen humanity

But he can restore all the fallen creation Because he undid what Adam?

did But then he's able to Because because because the issue our our issue just now speaking is humanity see as man

We've got the we don't just need to be forgiven of sin we need to have righteousness

That could even allow us into God's presence. It isn't just hey that's paid. You're in the black now.

Don't screw it up again You you know, you can't just be at zero you've got to have a

You know, you've got to have a wealth That you can never obtain and it's got to be given to you as a gift and The only way that that's even possible because as we are we're all in Adam Adam represents us we need to have somebody represent we need a new representative because the first one blew it and now

What I did not and Lou Kind of losing you brother.

They can stay real still. Look at that He was just frozen by God like frozen

That's funny we'll give him a second see if he comes back definitely a good a good explanation

Well, it seems like yes, yeah, it seems like you know that if you're on here right now, and you are an intellect you have

It has been explained to you. Very very clear. Now. I'm gonna speak to you barbarians out there

All right listening Barbarians, all right. So the question is is why is the hypostatic union important?

well In my opinion everything has to flow from gospel truth, right?

It has to flow from the gospel whatever Whatever doctrine or whatever it is that you believe if it contradicts

Gospel we have to get rid of it, right? And so I believe that the hypostatic Union is a perfect representation of Gospel when it comes to this doctrine so we've heard it clearly explained about Adam our our fall in Adam, you know because of Adam's sin

We are now born into sin Adam is our covenant federal head You know probably heard me say this before the same way that you could take a rock throw it into a mud puddle

Way that that rock causes that mud puddle to ripple The whole mud puddle feels the effect of that one rock being thrown.

So also here he comes back I Started to explain but if you want to finish your thought yeah,

I guess it's just saying is that The reality is is that we need to have

There has to be a sacrifice for sin The only one who can the you know only man can pay for it because the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away the sin

You know, you know our sins It has to be a man But man can't hold it and so we've got to have somebody and The only way that this is possible the only possible way

For salvation is for God himself to take on flesh

Because to God is too holy and too just too good to just wink at sin as if it didn't happen

You know that this is this is why you know We think of all the evils and things that have happened in the world

You know people like well, what about you know, but you know child bone cancer What about you know evil that just continues to occur?

Yeah God has addressed this and he did it in the person of Jesus Christ and You know, so God can't just pass it over he can't just go well there

I'm not gonna judge Hitler I'm not gonna judge you for your sin because I'm a loving and forgiving

God know You're a monster if if you just pass it over Cuz you're not a just God like you said you were

But you also said that you were a merciful God and that you forgive iniquity How? How can you be both just in the justifier?

It's the Lord Jesus Christ the God man himself that is how God is the job is just in the justifier

So not just for our own sake but ultimately for the sake of God's glory

The God man must be I'll stop there before my internet craps out on me again

Well again, like I was saying y 'all heard Y 'all heard this explained very intellectual and I'm going to explain it to the barbarians

Y 'all heard it. You know that we have sin We have fallen in Adam and I was giving a little analogy because that's what

I do About a rock if you take a rock I'm a puddle the same way that that Mud puddle feels the effect the ripple of that rock all of creation has felt the ripple of Adam's sin

We we are born dead in our trespasses and sins when we prove the Bible to be true when we sin when the

Bible tells us that for all have sinned we come straight up out the womb and Sinful we're born in sin and we sin right we deserve death so that sins will die

The wages of sin is death. And so this is why the hypostatic

Union is important The Bible talks about Jesus being our propitiation that he is the payment

For our wrongdoing you and I we've broken God's law. We deserve wrath.

We deserve punishment God sent his son and by doing so he is our propitiation

So if you can imagine and I've explained this before propitiation It means the payment for wrongdoing

Jesus is the payment right Jesus is Like Braden explained it earlier that that if you break his vase his son shouldn't pay for it

But he the fault of him he would pay for it because it's his vase The father sent his son as the payment

So it's not that he sent Jesus to do something that he didn't want to do Jesus is the payment for our sins

And so we say you hear us say that he lived the life We could not live and he took upon himself the punishment that we deserve well in the hypostatic

Union The reason why this is important like you've heard us explain it that the hypostatic Union is him being truly

God fully for Braden He and he's truly man Fully for Braden That's right

So Jesus is both God and he's man see you see this is important because the

Bible is clear that God cannot die and That man cannot keep

God's law So Jesus as a man Well Jesus as God has to keep

God's law in order for us To have perfect righteousness

Jesus lived the life that we could not live All right Jesus as man has to take upon himself the punishment that we deserve

God cannot die, but Jesus as a man died so God Jesus as deity lives the life we could not live and Jesus as man takes upon himself the punishment that we deserve and You and I become righteous by believing and trusting in what

Jesus Christ did in his active and Passive obedience him living the life.

We could not live in him dying the death Taking the punishment that we deserve.

So Jesus as truly God lives the life as truly man takes our punishment But he is raised from the dead

Right because he is God God cannot die So the deity in him

God the Father the Bible's clear God the Father got a Holy Spirit God the Son raises him from the dead and he lives continually forever and the way that you and I become righteous

Because Greg made it clear. It's not only that our sins have to be forgiven. We have to be righteous When Jesus died for our sins died for the sins of the elect we are forgiven, but now we need to be righteous

How are we righteous? By believing by trusting that what Jesus did he did it for us and he truly did it

He lived the life. We couldn't live and he died the death that we should die by being the

God man truly God truly, man Yep And amen, amen

Absolutely. Amen. All right any last words of encouragement or whatever you want to say before we head off of here and Read your

Bibles If you want to be a part of this kingdom that has

Christ as both King priest and prophet You must be born again be born again

All right So and I would say that being born again is is you is you given is that you and in one instance?

You don't believe you hear the gospel and the next thing you know You believe that's what being born again is one second you don't believe in the next second you've been given a new heart

You've been given You it's Ezekiel 36, right?

He has removed the heart of stone. He has given you the heart of flesh He has sprinkled you with clean water

He has put his spirit in you that causes you to be to walk in his statues and that's all by hearing

The message of what Christ has done the Holy Spirit applies that to your life

You must be born again. You're born in Adam. Now you need to be born in Christ Y 'all good.