January 5, 2018 Show with Martyn McGeown on “Called to Watch for Christ’s Return”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this fifth day of January 2017.

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And I am very excited today to be interviewing for the very first time ever on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, all the way from Limerick City in the

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Republic of Ireland, Pastor Martin McGowan. He is an author and pastor of Limerick Reformed Fellowship in Limerick City, Ireland, in the

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Republic of Ireland. And we are going to be discussing today something that I think is very appropriate as we begin a new year.

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There will be no doubt over the next 11 months some very bizarre and weird and false predictions about the return of Christ and about the end times and the end of the world.

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And so we wanted to make sure that you had a biblical and balanced and true understanding of watching for Christ's return.

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And that is why we have Martin on the program today. He has a book that he has written, which is now in print, titled

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Cold to Watch for Christ's Return. And it is my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Martin McGowan.

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Thank you very much, Chris, for having me on. It's my pleasure. And before we get into the subject matter of the book, tell us something about,

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I usually do this as often as I can, with new guests. I'd like you to give our listeners a summary of your testimony of what kind of a religious upbringing you had, if any, and how our sovereign

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Lord drew you to himself, what providential circumstances he used in your life to introduce you to himself and to the

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Gospel and to the Holy Scriptures and so on. And you can begin now with telling us your own story of salvation.

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Well, I grew up in Northern Ireland. I'm now living in the Republic of Ireland. I grew up in a

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Presbyterian church, the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, which is a liberal

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Presbyterian denomination. And growing up in that denomination,

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I learned some things about Christianity. Obviously, some things were true and some things were false. Many things were false.

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I came to the Reformed faith when I went to university and met individuals there.

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One individual in particular, Angus Stewart, who's now a Reverend Angus Stewart in the church in Ballymena, which is actually the calling church, which sent me as a missionary to Limerick.

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So the Lord has been using such men in my life to lead me to an understanding of the truth of his

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Word. And I went to the seminary of the Protestant Reformed churches in Michigan.

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I graduated in 2010, and I've been in Limerick ever since. Well, praise

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God for that. By the way, I don't know how far away Limerick is from Cork, but my congregation, where I am a member,

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Grace Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, not far, just right around the corner from the

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Banner of Truths, United States headquarters. We have a new associate pastor from Ireland, from Cork, Ireland, who will be joining us very soon.

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His name is Simon O'Mahony. Oh, Simon O'Mahony.

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I know Simon O'Mahony. Oh, wow. That's amazing.

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Praise God. And ladies and gentlemen, we did not secretly discuss this before the program. I'm so glad to hear that.

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Yeah, he visited the LRF once, years ago when he lived in Cork, and then he moved. I think he's now living in California, or he was in California, the last time

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I heard. Well, he will be joining us within the next month or so, I believe, as our new associate pastor.

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Oh, very good. Well, I'll make sure that he gets a recording of today's interview. Good. I remember him, yeah,

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Simon O'Mahony. Yeah, and I've discovered that you

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Irish folks do not pronounce your names anywhere close to the way they're spelled. Well, I have to say that in the introduction, you got my name correct,

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McGill, which was quite impressive. Thanks. Well, tell us about this book.

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What was the inspiration behind writing this book, Called to Watch for Christ's Return?

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As you know, there are many. There is a plethora of books written on the end times, not only from viewpoints which would be typically not found in the

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Reformed faith. You have a lot of books. Probably the dominant makeup of books written on eschatology in the end times are from a dispensational background, no doubt.

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But even outside of that, within our own circles, we have many books from amillennial and postmillennial and historic premillennial perspectives.

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Why did you feel called, pardon the pun, to write Called to Watch for Christ's Return?

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Well, the book started off as a series of sermons. I like to preach a series of sermons in Limerick, and I preach through Matthew 24 and 25, which is the

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Olivet Discourse, which is Christ's own teaching on eschatology. And I didn't think of making it into a book until the

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Reform Free Publishing Association, the RFPA, the publisher, contacted me in 2013.

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At that time, the Protestant Reformed Seminary were holding a conference on the

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Heidelberg Catechism, and the RFPA took me aside into a meeting room and asked me would

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I be interested in writing a book for them, perhaps using one of my sermon series as the source of the book.

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And I said I'd think about it. And after a while, I thought which one of my sermon series would best work as a book, which would be most interesting to people, and I decided to go for Matthew 24 and 25, because there are so many strange ideas about eschatology out there.

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And I submitted my book, I think it was in 2015, and it was finally published, after all the editing and so on, in 2016, so it's about a year old.

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My book's about a year old. Well, I'm going to give our listeners our email address if they would like to join us on the air with a question of their own.

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It is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

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That's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. And please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Let's say you disagree with your own pastor's eschatological position and you'd rather not draw attention to yourself, or perhaps you're a pastor and you disagree with your own denomination's eschatological views.

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We will grant your request to remain anonymous, so please feel free to do that.

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But other than that, please only remain anonymous if it is about a personal and private matter, and otherwise give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence at ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

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Well, if you could, let us know. I have a very strong feeling

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I know what perspective you're coming from, but please tell our listeners right up front which of the major eschatological views you adhere to.

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I hold to amillennialism or amillennialism, so I reject the premillennial dispensational view, which really centers around their pre -tribulational rapture, their literal 1 ,000 -year reign of Christ in Jerusalem, the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem, and such matters.

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I reject those in my book. I also reject postmillennialism, which views most, if not all, of Matthew 24 and even

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Matthew 25, some of them, use that as having already taken place around AD 70, when the

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Romans destroyed Jerusalem. So I reject both those views and I hold the amillennial or amillennial position.

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And could you tell us, because even amongst amillennialists there are differences, would you be more toward an optimistic view of amillennialism or more of a pessimistic view about the future of the planet

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Earth? I don't like the term pessimism when it comes to talking about amillennialism.

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I think that's actually more of a slanderous term that postmills often use. They call amillennialists pessimistic about the future.

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I believe that the future is going to consist of the coming of Jesus Christ, and he's going to save all of his elect people, gathering them from the nations.

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And when he's finished doing that, and when the cup of iniquity is filled up, then Christ shall return.

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There's nothing more optimistic than that. Amen. Yes, in fact, although I have many dear friends who are postmillennial, and I have a lot in common with them,

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I am to be a partial preterist amillennialist. I have a feeling that you're not, but one of the things that I disagree with on the postmillennial picture of the return of Christ is that I think that what is lost is the expectation that Christ could return at any moment.

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Just as your book is titled Call to Watch for Christ's Return, I fear that many of my postmillennialist brethren are not doing that, other than being prepared to meet him when they die.

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And I'm not trying, I don't want to paint a bad picture of them. I'm not saying that they live haphazard and licentious lives or anything, but what

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I mean is that that view that Christ could literally return at any moment is robbed from you,

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I believe, if you have a postmillennial view. The problem with postmillennialism is that many postmillennialists are actually looking forward to 1 ,000 years of earthly prosperity and peace, or maybe even longer than 1 ,000 years, rather than looking forward to the second coming of Jesus Christ.

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At least that's in their writings what the emphasis is on this so -called golden age of the church, which is supposed to happen in our future.

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As far as Christ returning at any moment is concerned, I wouldn't even hold to that view either, because certain things still have to happen before Christ can return.

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Specifically, the Antichrist has to come. I believe the Antichrist is in the future, and he hasn't come yet, or at least he hasn't been revealed yet.

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So, what would the Christian be specifically looking for to see in the development of world politics and world religion?

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What, in your opinion, in your specific understanding of amillennialism, would a

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Christian have to witness before you could reach a point of the imminence of Christ's return, where you could be expecting him to return at any moment in time?

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Well, what we're looking for is one major figure who can unite all the nations of the world together under one head, and when he does that, he unites politics together, he unites religions together, and then he's able to persecute the

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Church, because all the other things that mankind has been preoccupied with over the centuries will no longer be much of his concern, because he has solved, you might say, most of humans' problems, and therefore he can concentrate his efforts on persecuting the

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Church. When that happens, then you'll know that the coming of Christ is very near.

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Now, why do you view this figure as a future figure, when we have scriptural examples of antichrists being in existence, even when the authors of the

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New Testament were writing the God -breathed scriptures? Yeah, well, there were antichrists, or types of antichrists, and then there is one final future antichrist.

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I don't believe that second Thessalonians 2, Revelation 13,

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Revelation 17, and other passages are fulfilled yet, at least in their entirety.

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Now, my view, to make it simple, my view of Matthew 24 and 25 is that AD 70, the fall of Jerusalem, was a type, an historical type or picture of the end of the world, and so when

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Jesus is speaking in Matthew 24 and 25, he's talking about two things. He's talking about the fall of Jerusalem, yes, but he's also talking about all those things which will happen in history up until his own second coming, which is described in Matthew 24 as well.

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So I would disagree with the preterists, who would say that almost everything in Matthew 24 has been fulfilled with the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70.

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Yes, and when I identified myself as a partial preterist, I have to once again make it clear that there is a very dangerously heretical group who call themselves preterists, who

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I would call hyper -preterists. They might identify themselves as full preterists, or they might say that they believe in realized eschatology or covenant eschatology.

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They have a number of different names by which they describe themselves, but I believe that that is a very dangerous heresy, and I believe that most of those that I have met personally who hold to that hyper -preterist concept, that is their gospel.

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I mean, they talk about that more than anything else, including the gospel. Yes, absolutely, yes.

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That's their preoccupation with life. Yes, and that's a very pessimistic view of the future, that this world will continue forever and ever and ever and ever, and people just keep living, dying, going to hell or heaven, most of them going to hell for, you know, as far into eternity, unless we destroy ourselves with a nuclear war or something.

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Yeah, well, the hyper -preterists believe we're in the new heavens and the new earth already. The hyper -preterists believe that the crisis has already come, exhaustively and finally, and you might say they're taking their preterism to the extreme.

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Right, and there's all differences within even that group. You have some that don't even believe in the need of a church anymore, and there are some that don't have the ordinances or the sacraments, as some call them, anymore and so on.

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So they are a mixed group, because it's interesting that they come from both typically

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Reformed and Restorationist backgrounds, which are very different. You have those from the

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Church of Christ who are full preterists, and you have those who are Presbyterian. So it is an interesting group of people.

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So, the view of amillennialism that you have, tell us exactly, other than what you have just mentioned, should every church be teaching their congregants about in regard to being watchful for Christ's return, and also obviously every individual, every individual

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Christian, even if they are in a congregation, if they are a member of a church that's teaching them wrongly about that.

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What would you have them have etched in their hearts and minds in regard to watching for the return of Christ?

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Well, when Christ says to watch for his return, he means be awake, be alert, be on the lookout for all the signs that are coming in creation, in the church, among the nations, which indicate that he is on his way.

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That's really what watching means. And he gives many examples in the

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Olivet Discourse about what it means not to watch. He gives many warnings.

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So you have, for example, he talks about the thief coming and the householder, the good man of the house, not knowing in which watch the thief would come.

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You have the example of the servants who did not watch. You have the wise and foolish virgins.

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You have the talents, this parable of talents. And all of these individuals were not watching, they were living as if Christ would never come.

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They were living simply in a carnal, worldly manner. And when the Bible talks about watching, it calls us to pray, to read the scriptures, to study, to attend a true church, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world, all the while looking at what is going on in the world and discerning that Christ is coming through these things.

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Well, certainly, even if you believe that there are things eschatologically that have to occur before Christ's return, you would share with me a view that it could be within your lifetime.

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Yes. I mean, things are happening in the world that would certainly indicate that, yes.

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Now, obviously I'm not going to give you a date. No, then

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I would obviously be speaking negatively about you in another program. Yes, you would.

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I have a whole chapter in the book about the unknown time of Christ's return.

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Yes, and by the way, if you ever care to, years ago on my old show, when

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I was broadcasting out of New York, I had a debate on my program between Harold Camping and my friend

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Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, who's a Reformed Baptist. Oh, yes. And I don't know if you're familiar with Harold Camping, but he made several erroneous predictions about the return of Christ.

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Oh, I'm very familiar with Harold Camping. I'm also familiar with James White. Yes, in the chapter,

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The Unknown Time of Christ's Return, I actually interact a lot with Harold Camping's positions. Of course, he's dead now.

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Yes, yes. And when I was at seminary, I wrote a paper on Harold Camping. Oh, wow.

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Well, I actually, to toot my own horn, I designed, I'm an art major, and I designed and created the book cover for Dr.

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White's book, Dangerous Airwaves, Harold Camping Refuted and Christ Church Defended.

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Yeah, I have that book. Yes, well, I did the cover, and in fact, I came up with the title for Dr. White as well.

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Oh, good. One of the things that the Reformed confessions agreed upon, at least when they were written, and for quite a number of years afterwards, it's come out of vogue or popularity to keep the teaching that the

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Pope is the Antichrist in those confessions. But there are some

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Reformed brethren who have brought that back into the confession and into their own teachings in their churches.

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What is your opinion on that? Well, that's a controversial issue.

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Is the Pope the Antichrist? I don't believe the Pope is the Antichrist, because I don't think he fits with all the requirements of the book of Revelation, for example, but certainly he is an anti -Christian leader, and I'm not sure exactly what his role will be in the anti -Christian kingdom, but I'm pretty sure it will be a prominent one.

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The Antichrist, as far as I see from Revelation 13 and other places, is a political figure, and the

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Pope is not a political figure. The Pope is a religious figure, although he does dabble in politics, too. Right, and of course, the papacy was very much involved in politics, much more than it is today, centuries ago.

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Yes. And you have two beasts in Revelation, so you've got the second beast, who is the beast from the earth, and he speaks like a dragon, or sounds like a lamb, but he looks like a dragon, but sounds like a lamb, and that's the false church or false religion, and the

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Pope would obviously be very much involved in that, too, and the Pope seems to be interested in bringing together all churches and all religions under one head, and he's moving in that direction, with syncretism and interfaith religions and so on.

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And what or who is the

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Whore of Babylon, in your opinion? I believe the

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Whore of Babylon is the Whore of Babylon, but that's a whole exegetical question from Revelation, of course, but I believe that's a picture of the world.

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Some people say it's a false church, but I think it's actually the world. In fact, there are, as you probably know, there are some partial preterists and other kinds of preterists who would view it as Israel, Israel that rejected

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Christ. Yes, yes, I've read some of those works. They view the beast as Nero, or one of the

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Roman emperors. They view the false prophet or the

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Whore of Babylon as Israel, apostate Israel, and so on, but that's because they're preterists, and they want to put all that kind of stuff into the past.

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Preterism, of course, comes from the past. People might know that. I wouldn't hold that position either.

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And right now, we're going to our first station break. In fact, what I'm going to do is

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I am going to forward to you an email from Slovenia, from our listener

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Joe in Slovenia. So this way, during the station break, you have that right in front of you, and you could look it over,

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Pastor Martin. And if anybody else would like to join us, our email address again is chranzen at gmail .com.

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USA. Don't go away. We'll be right back, God willing, with more of Pastor Martin McGill and calling to watch for Christ's return.

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Well, we are now back with our interview with our guest today, Pastor Martin Miglione of the

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Limerick Reform Fellowship in Limerick City, Ireland, in the Republic of Ireland. And if you would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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We have Joe in Slovenia, who says,

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Dear Brothers Chris and Martin, Does all nations, in Matthew 24 verse 14, refer to all nations, ethne, on the whole earth, or is there a legitimate exegetical reason to understand all nations to only refer to the then known world familiar to the apostles?

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If so, what is that exegetical reason? If all nations, in Matthew 24 verse 14, refers to all nations, ethne, or people groups on the whole earth, must we then interpret this generation of verse 34 figuratively to mean the whole scope of church history from Pentecost to Christ's second bodily return, since the apostles didn't preach the gospel everywhere on the planet?

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Pastor Martin? That's an interesting question. I think

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I'll begin by talking about that verse 34 reference.

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I'm going to read from what I write in the book. The post -millennial explanation of verse 34 is that everything mentioned in Matthew 24 to this point, the eight signs including the events of verses 29 to 31, happened within one generation or 40 years.

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Therefore, everything of which Christ speaks was fulfilled finally and exhaustively by A .D.

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70. In fact, verse 34 is the text that drives and determines the post -millennial interpretation of the entire chapter.

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And I say that interpretation is impossible, however. All the events recorded in Matthew 24, 4 to 31, were not fulfilled by A .D.

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70, especially not the events of Christ's glorious return. The key is the word fulfilled.

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The Greek says simply happened. And as in this generation shall not pass away until all these things happen.

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However, they do not happen exhaustively, completely, or entirely. They happen in historical type.

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So to say that all these things will be fulfilled within one generation would lead one to the post -millennial preterist position.

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That means that everything happened before A .D. 70. I reject that view throughout my book.

37:19

As far as all nations go in verse 14, there's no exegetical reason to limit that to only some nations, only the nations that the apostles had heard of, probably.

37:35

The apostles hadn't heard of all the nations of the world in that day, but that doesn't mean that Christ doesn't mean something less than all the nations, and all the nations of the world do have to hear the gospel, and the elect from all nations have to be converted before Christ can return.

37:50

In fact, that is the one sign that determines the coming of Christ. If you notice, he talks in Matthew 24,

38:01

Christ does, in verses 6, 7, and 8, about earthquakes, and famines, and wars, and so on.

38:09

And he says, all these are the beginning of sorrows in verse 8. Well, that word sorrows means birth pangs.

38:16

All these are the beginning of birth pangs. They don't actually determine when Christ returns.

38:22

Those are the beginning of sorrows, but what determines when Christ returns is verse 14, and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come.

38:38

So, the end shall come when the gospel of the kingdom is preached in all the world for witness unto all nations, and then, and only then, shall the end come.

38:49

And the end refers to the coming of Christ on the clouds of glory on the last day.

38:55

Well, thank you, Joe, in Slovenia, and you have won, absolutely free of charge, the book that we have been discussing,

39:03

Called to Watch for Christ's Return, by our guest, Martin McGowan of Limerick City, Ireland.

39:11

And please make sure we have your full mailing address so that can be shipped out to you by Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cv, for Cumberland Valley, bbs, for biblebookservice .com,

39:23

and they will ship that out to you at no charge to you or to Iron Trip and Zion Radio. We also thank our friends at the

39:29

Reformed Free Publishing Association, RFPA, as they are known, for providing us these free books to give away today to our listeners.

39:40

We also have a listener in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, here in the good old

39:47

USA, and Greg from Oklahoma City asks, who are left behind and who are taken away?

40:00

Oh, he's referring to the end of, well, towards the end of Matthew 24.

40:09

It's speaking there about the days of Noah, verse 37, and then verse 39 says,

40:15

And knew not, that is, the people in the time of Noah's day, and knew not until the flood came and took them all away, so shall also the coming of the

40:26

Son of Man be. So those who are taken away, in verse 39, were the wicked.

40:32

They were taken away by the flood. And then he goes on to say, in verse 40, then shall two be in the field, the one shall be taken, and I take that to be taken as in taken away in judgment, and the other will be left, that is, preserved and saved.

40:49

Two women shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, again, taken away in judgment, and the other left, that is, preserved and saved, and that fits with the context of verse 39, and so the ones who are left behind are actually saved.

41:05

So really, the left behind series of books gets completely wrong. You want to be left behind in terms of Matthew 24.

41:15

Well, thank you very much, Greg, and we also need your full mailing address in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, because you have also won a free copy of the book we are discussing,

41:26

A Call to Watch for Christ's Return by Martin McGeown, compliments of Reform Free Publishing Association, so please give us your full mailing address so that cvbbs .com

41:37

can ship that out to you. And let's see, we have another listener.

41:44

This is a first time listener, and this is

41:49

Levi in Olympia, Washington, and Levi says,

41:54

I and others in my denomination hold to the amillennial view, but others in my denomination hold to historic premillennialism, not dispensational and postmillennialism.

42:07

Actually, I probably emphasized my words there wrong. They hold to historic premillennialism and postmillennialism and not dispensationalism.

42:19

That's a better way of phrasing it, I think, according to what Levi is intending to say here. Are end times views that go against the biblical view considered error, or can they be considered heresy?

42:35

Would you take the full preterism or dispensational premillennialism views as heretical or merely error?

42:44

Basically, he's asking you the severity with which you would have against those views that differ from your amillennial view, and of course there are...

42:54

Well, it all depends on how you define what heresy is. If you're saying that heresy means a person who holds that position is not saved and is going to hell, well, no.

43:07

If heresy means that it's an error which has been defined and then condemned by the church, and therefore someone who holds that view could not, for example, be an office bearer or teach in the church, well then, yes,

43:22

I would say in my denomination, well, the Prosner Forum Church is not really my denomination.

43:28

I'm a sister church of that denomination, but the CPRC in Balamina, which is the calling church where I'm a member, we would view both premillennial dispensationalism and postmillennialism as heresy in that you couldn't be an office bearer and hold that position.

43:48

So we wouldn't say that means that you're an unbeliever. So I think that people would often use the word heresy to throw around the word heresy in an unwise manner, so I want to make sure that we define our terms correctly before we answer the question.

44:01

Right. Out of that list that Levi provides, I would certainly only view full preterism as heresy, or I would call it hyper -preterism, a denial that Jesus Christ is physically returning and that the dead will be bodily raised from their graves in the future, a denial of those things.

44:24

Yeah, that's the view of Hymenaeus and Phaedus. That's right. The resurrection has happened already. When I was in seminary,

44:31

I wrote a paper called Preterist Gangrene, because their word doth eat as they canker.

44:40

The Greek there is the Greek word for gangrene. So I wrote a paper called Preterist Gangrene, which first got me interested in the whole preterist post -millennial thing, actually, when

44:50

I was in seminary. That's what I wrote, and that actually can be read on the

44:56

CPRC website, my church website. It's CPRF .co

45:02

.uk. Look up the articles. You can look up Preterist Gangrene. If you want to look into that subject more.

45:10

Well, thank you, Levi, and as a first -time listener, or should I say a first -time questioner, not only are you receiving absolutely free of charge

45:20

Call to Watch for Christ's Return, but you are also receiving free of charge a copy of the

45:26

New American Standard Bible, absolutely free of charge since you are a first -time questioner. Please make sure you give us your full mailing address there in Olympia, Washington, so that can be shipped out to you.

45:38

And one of the things that I wanted to have you focus on are also those things that we who watch for Christ's Return should have in common with the entire body of Christ.

45:58

There must be things that an average Christian or every

46:03

Christian should be doing in their day -to -day lives in recognition that Christ will one day return.

46:10

Can you mention some of those things? Well, when

46:15

Christ returns, you want him to find you doing those things which he has commanded you to do.

46:22

You don't want him to find you doing things which are wicked and ungodly. So when

46:27

Christ returns, for example, in the parables in Matthew 24 and 25, the individuals who are condemned are either not doing what they're supposed to be doing, so you might say sins of omission.

46:43

They're asleep, for example. The foolish virgins are asleep.

46:49

Or the talent user who only had one talent, he buried his talent and didn't do anything with it.

46:54

You've got the servants at the end of chapter 24. One of those servants was beating the other servants and eating and drinking with the drunk.

47:06

That's chapter 24, verse 49. So obviously when

47:12

Christ returns, whenever that might be, you want to be living a godly life.

47:19

It's all very well having all kinds of ideas and speculations about when Christ is going to return, but if you're not living a godly life, you're not ready to see him when he does return.

47:27

If you don't believe in him, then you're not ready to see him either. So you must believe in Christ, repent of your sins, live a godly life, be watching and praying, waiting for Christ's return.

47:40

Now there are some of my post -millennialist friends, and I do have many of them, in fact,

47:46

I interviewed some of them this very week, not on eschatology, but the topic came up.

47:52

Actually, one of them was particularly on eschatology, a brother who wrote a novel from a post -millennial partial preterist perspective.

48:01

But the charge that is laid against those of us who are either amillennial or premillennial is that our pessimism will drive us to not being very concerned about the transformation of the earth, really, the transformation of society, and they will insist that transformation will come about through the preaching of the gospel and the changing of hearts and so on, and the more and more people rising up in true faith who will also be eventually involved in high places of government and so on.

48:45

But what is your view about that charge against basically everyone outside of post -millennialism, everyone outside of that high optimistic view of the future of earth that says that we are going to let the earth go to hell in a handbasket, as it were, because we don't really believe that there may be even centuries awaiting the planet earth of existence?

49:12

Well, I don't believe the church has the calling to try to Christianize the world or to make the world a better place or to transform society.

49:23

The church has the calling to preach the gospel, and when the church preaches the gospel, God's elect people believe and are converted and the reprobate are hardened.

49:35

And the number of the elect versus the number of the reprobate, well, that's something that God has determined. I don't see anywhere in the

49:41

New Testament which suggests that in the future we're going to have a huge number of conversions, so much so that all the nations of the world are going to be

49:52

Christianized and all the leaders of the nations will be Christians and society will get better and better and morality will improve.

49:59

I see the exact opposite in the New Testament and particularly in Matthew 24, which is why both

50:06

Millennials want to preterize or put into the past the teachings of Matthew 24. As far as victory and conquering is concerned,

50:17

I would like to read from Romans chapter 8, where it says, verse 35, who shall separate us from the love of Christ?

50:25

Shall tribulation or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or peril or sword? Now, all of those things are rather negative.

50:33

As it is written, for thy sake we are killed all the day long. We are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

50:39

And then Paul writes, nay, in all these things, and all the things refer to the things in verse 35 and 36, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

50:53

It doesn't say we will be more than conquerors after all these things are finished. It says we are, present tense, more than conquerors or hyper -conquerors, the

51:06

Greek has, more than conquerors in all these things. And if a postmillennialist cannot define victory in terms of Romans 8, verse 37, then his view of victory is an earthly and carnal victory, but not the victory that the

51:25

Apostle Paul talks about. Now, going back to the idea of what you mentioned about it is not the duty of the

51:35

Christian to bring about conversions or Christianize the entire earth.

51:44

Well, obviously, we can only plant and water the seeds, and it is up to God to give the increase.

51:51

But as far as the Great Commission is concerned, we have, for instance, in Mark chapter 16, verse 15, and speaking of Jesus, he said to them, go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

52:08

I mean, that is obviously a duty of the Church. Yes, absolutely.

52:14

It doesn't say, however, go into all the world, preach the gospel to every creature, and the whole world will become Christianized, and we will take over governments, and the world will become

52:23

Paradise Earth. It doesn't say that. It says we are to preach the gospel to all the nations as a witness to them, and that witness is often rejected.

52:33

And I don't see, even in our modern age, I don't see the world getting better and better.

52:40

I live in Ireland. I live in Europe. Europe is extremely corrupt, post -Christian, and America is going in the same direction.

52:51

That might sound pessimistic to some, but that's how I see things going on around me.

52:57

Yes, and obviously, though, even, and believe me, I'm not a post -Millennialist, although I share...

53:03

No, you're not a post -Millennialist. You said you weren't. Right, but one of the reasons

53:08

I said that is because, in some senses, I am defending something that they teach to prevent a caricature.

53:16

I know that the post -Millennialists, at least the ones that I'm familiar with, do not believe that we are just in a direct, straight upward arrow going to be getting better and better and better and better and better on the

53:28

Earth. They do believe that there could be a period, you know, of centuries long of darkness that awaits us in the future that is worse than mankind has ever seen, but they eventually believe that the future will get better.

53:42

And obviously, we also have to remember that things long ago, it's not as if there was some kind of a pristine condition of the

53:52

Church or the world centuries ago when Christians were being used as human torches and fed to lions and so forth.

54:00

I mean, obviously... And back then, the Church was more than conquerors through Christ who loved her.

54:06

Amen. And we do have that promise that Hebrews 11, 12 gives us.

54:13

Therefore there was born even one man and him as good as dead at that as many descendants as there as the stars of the heaven and number and innumerable as the sands which is by the seashore.

54:33

So, it's not like there's going to be some tiny handful of people entering into heaven one day.

54:39

We can expect there to be a great multitude no one can number. Absolutely.

54:45

I agree entirely. That's what Revelation says. Amen. And we are going to our midway break.

54:52

This is a longer break than normal because Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us a 12 -minute break between the two hours.

55:04

So, if you could please be patient with us as we go through our longer break and take this time to write questions for our guest

55:11

Martin McGill on his book, Call to Watch for Christ's Return.

55:18

Our email address again is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

55:25

And please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

55:32

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

55:38

Don't go away. God willing, we'll be right back with more of Pastor Martin McGill on Call to Watch for Christ's Return.

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We hope that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio blesses you for many years to come. lively useful and i assure you never dull join us this saturday at 12 noon eastern time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs a pastor welcome back this is chris arnson if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with about one hour to go is martin mcgowan or martin mcgill almost mispronounced it there and uh very well to that point hahaha martin i have to say that you you do it much better than many of my uh prc friends who are from dutch reform backgrounds and have difficulty with it martin mcgill and he is pastor of limerick reform fellowship in limerick city in ireland and the republic of ireland you're discussing his call to watch for christ's return book and if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is chris arnson at gmail .com

01:04:24

c h r i s a r n z e n gmail .com please give us your your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the usa and please only remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable because the matter involves a personal and private situation in your life and you may wondering may wonder why i keep repeating those things is because i still continue to this day to receive many emails with questions that do not have the first name city and state or country of the listener so i have to keep repeating it to remind our listeners to do that um before i return to our discussion i just have a couple of announcements to make first of all the g3 conference is going to be in atlanta in just a matter of a couple of weeks january 17th through the 20th in atlanta georgia at the georgia international convention center i am going to be there god willing manning and iron sharpens iron radio exhibitors booth and i hope that many of you join me there uh the last year there were thousands of people there and i'm expecting to have thousands of people once again in atlanta georgia in just two weeks uh the g3 if you're wondering what that stands for it's grace gospel and glory and the theme this year is knowing god a biblical understanding of discipleship on the 17th the conference begins with a spanish speaking edition during the daytime on wednesday january 17th then the english portion of the conference is launched at 7 p .m

01:05:58

on wednesday january 17th which with a debate between my friend dr james r white alpha and omega ministries and a muslim apologist and then on wednesday i'm sorry and then on thursday january 18th through the 20th the english speaking conference begins and that will include such speakers as stephen lawson vody baucom phil johnson keith getty hb charles jr tim challis josh bice james white tom askell anthony metheny and michael krueger david miller paul tripp todd friel derrick thomas martha peace justin peters and stephen nichols who is the president of reformation bible college the college founded by r .c.

01:06:39

sproul who is now in glory with christ for eternity and uh and i and i know that uh r .c.

01:06:47

sproul's mentor the late john gerstner was a close friend of david engelsma who i believe you know very well am i am i right uh pastor yes i had professor engelsma in seminary yes he's several courses in dogmatics yeah i've known professor engelsma for for many years because he speaks at our british reformed fellowship conference that we have every two years he's been speaking in that since i think 1993 if i get the the dates correct um i've had the privilege i've had the privilege of interviewing david uh several times on the show about four or five times i listen to those interviews early some of them oh great well if you want to if anybody wants to register to either attend or to man an exhibitor's booth at the g3 conference go to g3conference .com

01:07:38

g3conference .com please please remember to tell them that you heard about the conference from chris arnzen uh on iron trip and zion radio and then finally comes the least favorite portion of my show where i have to beg you for money i hate doing it and for years and years i refused to make one single public appeal for donations but my advertisers who have been spending their own hard -earned money to keep iron trip and zion radio alive have pressured me to make these public appeals so i finally caved in because there is a definite need for them if you do love this program you do not want it to go off the air please go to iron trip and zion radio .com

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01:09:30

click on support and mail a check to the address that you will find there for any amount that you can afford and please give as often as you can as well and some of you are given every week which is really a mind -blowing thing to me i also want to thank a new uh or somebody i just became aware of uh listening in the north carolina grady who wrote me a very lengthy letter and gave me a very generous check for iron trip and zion radio today thank you very much grady for your benevolence and for listening to iron trip and zion radio and taking the time to write such a very lengthy letter uh come commending iron trip and zion radio for how much of a blessing this program is to you and thank you also for patronizing uh two of our clients our advertising clients solid ground christian books and cvbbs .com

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01:11:01

chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line well now we are back uh with uh martin mcgill i got it right that time uh pastor of limerick reform fellowship in limerick city ireland and we are discussing his book call to watch for christ's return we have uh susan margaret in dauphin county pennsylvania who says how do you respond to the charge by pre -millennialists and especially dispensationalists who will say that amillennialism is a product of liberalism and for not taking the scriptures literally what they usually mean by that is not taking the old testament prophets literally well of course you don't take the old testament prophets literally because they're written in a prophetical style which is not to be taken literally and if you look at how the old testament prophets are quoted in the new testament it's obvious that they're not to be taken literally in many uh situations i'll just give one example of that um if you go in the old testament to amos chapter 9 amos chapter 9 verse 11 says in that day will i raise up the tabernacle of david that is fallen and close up the breaches thereof and i will build up his ruins and i will build it as in the days of old that they may possess the remnant of edom and of all the heathen which are called by my name sayeth the lord that doeth this if you take that literally it refers to the restoration of the earthly kingdom of david now that is quoted in acts chapter 15 in acts chapter 15 james refers to that to prove that in the new testament the gentiles and the jews are one in the new testament church he quotes that to end the controversy you might say at the jerusalem council of acts chapter 15 verse 14 of acts 15 says simeon that is simon peter have declared how god at the first had visited gentiles to take out of them a people for his name and to this agree the words of the prophets as it is written after this i will return and will build again the tabernacle of david which has fallen down and i will build again the ruins thereof and i will set it up and so on so if you take amos 9 literally you would never come to the conclusion that is talking about the calling of the gentiles and their equal status in the new testament church and yet no one at the jerusalem council said hang on a minute james that's nothing to do with what we're talking about here they understood that you're not to take that literally and so if you look at the new testament how it interprets the old testament scriptures you'll see that you're not to take the old testament prophets literally they're full of symbolism how's it the book of revelation yes and there are some verses in the scripture where all millennialists take them more literally than uh the uh pre -millennials do like for instance i i will raise them up in the last day uh the last day i'm certain that you would agree meanings the resurrection of the dead that will be the last day of earthly existence would i be in agreement with you on that yes absolutely yep well thank you uh very much uh for that uh that question susan margaret in dauphin county pennsylvania you have also won call to watch for christ's return compliments of the reform free publishing association and also compliments of cvbbs .com

01:15:01

who will be shipping that out to you uh we have uh cj in lindenhurst long island new york and cj says how do you respond to dispensationalists and others who claim that amillennialism is merely a example of the baggage that some people are still clinging to from roman catholicism i usually dismiss uh such arguments as foolish and i i get back to what the bible teaches and i ask people if they want to argue against my position then they should bring bring the exegetical arguments i mean we can we can argue with about history and where amillennialism came from and where premillennialism came from and dismissationalism has its own nasty history as well by the way but i would i would prefer to stick to exegesis and my book is uh full of exegesis that's that's that's what my sermons are exegetical expositional um and they go into the book as well the book is my sermons made into a book yes and so i wouldn't answer that question i would say okay give me your exegetical argument that's a good way to answer and obviously you have to be very careful about uh using that as a reason to dismiss something because the roman catholics do agree with us on the trinity on the deity of christ and the uh virgin conception of jesus christ uh and you know many other things even though we do not believe that they are our brothers because of their denial of the biblical gospel they still do share a lot in common with us yeah we'll see yeah the huge this person is probably referring to augustine know that augustine was when he invented amillennialism or something but i'm not going to argue that uh position i'm going to say your position must fall or stand or fall on exegetical grounds and what does the bible say and does your position fit with the bible or else well cj guess what you have won the last copy of call to watch for christ's return by martin mcgillan uh compliments of our friends at the reform free publishing association and you will receive that compliments of our friends at cvbbs .com

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who will be shipping that out to you at no charge to you or to us please give us your full mailing address in lindenhurst long island we have stephen from the united kingdom uh from rushden bradford united kingdom he says how are we to understand what the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place is there's a whole chapter in the book entitled the abomination of desolation the abomination of desolation uh jesus refers there to the prophecy of daniel and in that chapter i go into some detail about daniel especially daniel chapter 9 and the prophecy of the 70 weeks well the first abomination of desolation referred to antiochus epiphanies who in the old testament history were really in the inter testament inter testamentary period between the old testament the new testament he brought in idolatry into the jewish temple that was the first abomination of desolation the second abomination of desolation that jesus speaks of in matthew 24 is when the romans brought idolatry into the temple in jerusalem in ad 70 which led to the not only the abomination of the temple it's defilement but also ultimately to destruction and i believe that there will be another future abomination of desolation when the antichrist makes it impossible for the church to worship god and when that happens then god's people will will not be able to worship god in any longer because they'll they'll be scattered through persecution and through apostasy but there's a whole chapter in the book that explains that and goes into all the details of uh of daniel nine in particular well thank you very much steven i hope that you continue listening to iron trip and zion radio and continue spreading the word about the program in the united kingdom and beyond uh we have i gave a couple of sorry can i give a couple of websites just for people in ireland and the uk oh yeah definitely without without question go ahead yeah so limerickreformed .com

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is the website of the limerick reforms fellowship the cprf .co

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.uk cprf .co .uk is the website of the covenant protestant reformed church in balamina northern ireland which is the calling church of our fellowship on that website you will find lots of articles and resources in foreign languages if you're interested in reading in foreign languages all kinds of languages and then britishreformed .org

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is the british reformed fellowship and i'm the editor of the british reformed journal so those are the websites that i would like to promote because those are the ones that we use to promote the reform faith in in ireland and the uk and even europe and throughout the world well this is quite this is this is quite providential i'm sorry so steve and england might like to look at those yes and it's quite providential that you just mentioned that because we have somebody from balamina northern ireland who you know who has just submitted a question uh dr julian kennedy of cprc balamina northern ireland uh and oh he should have a good question yes he says uh i'm a personal friend of martin and i hope he does not mind me putting him on the spot about an issue we have discussed before this i mean particularly the issue of when the great commission will be accomplished and the end come in particular that's the discipling of all nations has he come to any fuller revelation on the truth of revelation chapter 7 9 and even the promise to abraham in genesis 12 3 as to whether this mandates disciples among all people groups that have ever existed some of whom may be extinct and times long gone when we believe most never heard well when christ says uh hello julian when christ says that the gospel shall be preached to all the nations he means the gospel shall be preached to to all the nations so that all people groups will be represented in the new heavens and in the new earth what exactly a nation means what exactly a people group means is not something i can determine from scripture um but god knows where all the elect are god will determine in history that all of the elect in whatever nation they find themselves through whatever it means whether they hear an actual preacher in person or they hear it over the internet by whatever means they hear the gospel they will be converted and they will be brought into the kingdom of heaven and when that work has been completed then christ shall come as he promised i'm not sure i can add much more to that but yes julian i have discussed that that question before uh i think the question is what exactly is is a nation in the bible what is the word nation in the bible actually mean and it's it's somewhat difficult to determine do you two have some friendly jousting over this disagreeing over that matter well thank you much julian and in fact i was wondering if either of you know a friend of mine in balamina northern ireland a pastor john greer of the free presbyterian church denomination yes yes we're familiar with with uh pastor greer and and the free presbyterians yeah yeah john is a friend of mine i haven't spoken to him in a long time but he used to pastor here in pennsylvania where i currently live at the malvern free presbyterian church in pennsylvania and now he has for a number of years been back at the balamina free presbyterian church and i think that he is one of the most extraordinary and powerful preachers on the planet earth and i was just so much enjoyed having him preach at a bible conference at the congregation where i used to belong grace reform baptist church of merrick new york where before i moved here to pennsylvania so i just wanted to have uh your friend uh say hello to pastor greer for me the next time they happen to bump into each other okay well i'll leave that one to julian julian you can do that and uh thank you he lives in balamina i don't so right well uh uh thank you very much for blessing us with your excellent question dr kennedy and uh please i'm sorry about that you're not going to give him a free book are you ready how's what yeah actually we ran out of them but he also says i have the book no gift required okay good and uh keep spreading the word about iron trip and xyron radio in northern ireland and beyond dr kennedy we look forward to hearing back from you from time to time with more questions as well we're going to our final break it's going to be a briefer uh break than the ones that you already heard uh so uh now is the time to write in your questions if you'd like to have them asked and answered on the air because we are rapidly running out of time our email address again is chris arnzen at gmail .com

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chris arnzen at gmail .com and as always please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the usa and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter that's chris arnzen at gmail .com

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that's chef exclusive .com welcome back if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with about 25 minutes to go is pastor martin mcgill author and pastor of limerick reform fellowship in limerick city ireland we are discussing his book called to watch for christ's return and our email address if you have a question is chrisarnsen at gmail .com

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chrisarnsen at gmail .com please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the usa we have bb in cumberland county pennsylvania who asks can you list us a few verses in the scripture that give you the most trouble as an amillennialist that's an interesting question the most trouble as an amillennialist um i suppose i mean some of the old testament prophets are are difficult exactly to understand for example uh ezekiel 40 through 48 i mean all the details for example i would have difficulty with of course i think a pre -millennial pre -millennial would have more difficulty with that than i would because they have to believe in a rebuilt temple with sacrifices and priests and everything else after the the cross took place um and there are passages in revelation that i have difficulty understanding obviously um i don't tend to be an expert on everything in the in the scriptures but i i believe that the amillennial position fits best with uh biblical material and uh thank you very much bb and keep spreading the word in cumberland county pennsylvania and beyond we have tony with an eye a female tony uh in in let's see where in she's in rockhill south carolina and tony uh says i would like to have your guests interpretation of the passage of scripture the apostle paul regarding god's blinding of israel until the fullness of the gentiles has come in is this a reference to the great commission does he see a clear distinction between the overall body of believers the church and the nation of israel at the end of the age and she has another question that i will read to you after you reply to this one okay well romans 11 is not a passage i cover in the book but um romans 11 uh describes god's purposes for the jews in the new testament age it doesn't actually mention in the entire chapter the nation of israel as such it talks about jews and it talks about gentiles paul begins the chapter by saying that god has not cast away his people who are the jews and he proves that because paul himself was a jew he also proves that by quoting from the old testament that god reserved for himself seven thousand that have not bowed the knee to be all he goes on to say that there is a remnant according to the election of grace in verse five he then goes on to talk about the hardening and blinding of the reprobate among the jews and how that led to the rejection by the jews of christ and which led to his cross which was how god brought about salvation for the gentiles mainly in the new testament age but not exclusively only for the gentiles which then god uses the conversion of the gentiles god uses to bring the jews to jealousy so that they too the elect among them are converted so this happens throughout the new testament age you have jews and gentiles being converted until the the last day when the last elect you and the last elect gentile are converted so the fullness of the jews refers to the full number of the elect of the jews and the fullness of the gentiles refers to the full number of the elect among the gentiles and when all those have been fulfilled then the end shall come and so when it says all israel shall be saved it doesn't mean there'll be a huge conversion of israelites at the end of the world towards the end of history it doesn't refer to the restoration of israel as a nation which is not prophesied in the bible at all it simply refers to the fact that all of the elect of jews and gentiles will be saved by the end of the world it doesn't say and then all israel shall be saved but and so and the word so means and in this way the greek word means and in this way all israel shall be saved and it goes on to explain that their salvation is salvation from sin but god will turn on godliness away from jacob verse 26 he shall take away their sins uh verse 27 that's a brief exegesis of romans 11 yes and i actually mistakenly said that the second part of tony's email was another question but it wasn't it was uh romans chapter 11 verse 25 for i would not brethren that ye should be ignorant of this mystery lest ye should be wise in your own conceits that blindness in part is happened to israel until the fullness of the gentiles has come in anything anything further to add to that or do you you want to leave it where you you left it uh i think i think i've said enough okay i don't i don't deal i don't deal uh with uh romans 11 um much in in my book because it doesn't really come up in in march of 24 25 although we have studied it in bible study and i had on the back of the bulletin last week a whole explanation of the chapter so it is somewhat fresh in my mind well thank you tony and keep spreading the word about iron sharpens iron radio in south carolina and beyond um we have uh we have harrison in mechanicsburg pennsylvania who says how do you respond to the messianic jews who believe that our millennialists are anti -semitic and also do you believe that the church is indeed the fulfillment of israel uh i absolutely do believe that the church is the fulfillment of israel the new testament is crystal clear on that point um i do not believe that i or a millennialist or anti -semitic at least i'm not maybe some of them were but i don't believe a millennialism is anti -semitism i don't believe in what's so -called replacement theology either i believe that god's promises to abraham are fulfilled in all those who believe in jesus christ whether they be jew or gentile galatians chapter 3 for example is a marvelous passage i can find it galatians chapter 3 verse 13 christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law being made a curse for us for it is written cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree and then here's the purpose of christ being made a curse for us that the blessing of abraham might come on the gentiles through jesus christ that we might receive the promise of the spirit through faith now what is the blessing of abraham the blessing of abraham is everything that god promised to abraham god didn't promise to abraham an earthly land the earthly land that god promised to abraham was a picture of a heavenly thing abraham understood that himself and and hebrews 11 he speaks of that that abraham looked for a city that had foundations whose maker builder and maker is god so the nation of israel as it exists today in the middle east with benjamin netanyahu and so on as president i mean that that is completely irrelevant to christian and the nation of israel is is not a godly nation it's no more godly than any other nation of the world um and i don't believe it's a christian's responsibility to support the nation of israel politically or religiously or anything you know any other way because the holy nation that the new testament speaks about is the church so for example first peter first peter 2 9 2 yeah says 2 9 says but ye are a chosen generation speaking here to the church you are a chosen generation a royal priesthood and holy nation a peculiar people that you should show forth the praises of him who have called you out of darkness into his marvelous light which in time past were not a people but are not the people of god he is referring there to exodus 19 those are the exact terms used by moses to describe god's people the old testament church in exodus 19 and then verse 10 is a reference to hosea 1 and 2 so all the promises that were given to to abraham and to abraham's seed are fulfilled in christ who is the seed of abraham galatians 3 verse 16 and in those who are in christ by faith galatians 3 verse 29 and the nation of israel as it exists today the ungodly a religious secular nation of israel or even the jews for that matter are not the people of god and christ doesn't call them the people of god and john the baptist rejects them as the people of god and so do the apostles and that's not the antisemitic that's just truth they're not true jews romans 9 uh romans 2 and other passages determine what a true jew is a true jew is someone who believes in jesus christ not someone who is circumcised or keeps the law of moses or has a jewish ancestry or goes to the wailing wall those things are merely external things they don't they don't determine what a jew is right and if somebody jumps to the immediately conclusion that those very words themselves are antisemitic they have to look at what the talmud says about jesus christ there are some pretty horrifying things that uh rabbinical tradition has said about jesus and so i mean it's we're not we're not talking about uh a ethnic bigotry here we're talking about theology and we're not talking about politics either we're not we're not concerned about you know whether israel or the palestinian i'm not concerned about that that doesn't interest me at all in this regard we're talking about about theology what does the new testament say a jew is right and it's a testament as a believer in christ yeah and i can't i really can't understand how any uh dispensationalist or messianic jew cannot clearly see that peter in first peter 2 9 is clearly referring to christians the church by using those those terms a chosen race royal priesthood a holy nation uh i just it's beyond me how they could think that peter was was speaking to anybody else other than the church uh even the even the fact that we are grafted in the gentile believers are grafted in what are we grafted into we're not grafted into the nation of israel over there in the middle of east uh to christ right um he is he is the root he is the root we partake of his fatness as it says in romans 11 yes and of course i don't think that this leaves out people who in fact i know people who have a very similar if not identical position that you have on israel uh what the uh what the church is who the church is that we are a fulfillment of the nation of israel and so on who do not believe that that nation is a fulfillment of biblical prophecy that that nation in the middle east but on the same token i know people who agree with us on all those who do believe that it is politically wise to whenever we can support them since they are our allies over there and we have people calling themselves palestinians crying out for our death and our destruction and you know so i mean but they're also palestinian christians oh yes of course of course there are yeah there are two christians are our brothers in christ amen israeli christians are brothers in christ amen but the unbelieving palestinians and the unbelieving jews are not our brothers in christ amen and but i'm not i'm not sure of any uh political or military move on the part of palestinian christians uh to throw uh jerusalem to throw israel off the face of the the earth uh as the palestinians are as the muslim palestinians are the interesting thing about romans 11 to come back to romans 11 is that in romans 11 it shows us that god saves jews in every generation up to the coming of christ he doesn't do that with any other nation so that's interesting that god has preserved the jewish people so that he can save a remnant of them in every generation even now paul says there's a remnant according to the election of grace but that's true in every generation up until the coming of christ that's not true of of americans or or germans or swedish people or irish people or british people but that's true of the jews now is that why god determined they should have a nation so you know they're maybe um but i don't believe that the jewish nation as such is is a fulfillment of prophecy um there's a chapter in the book about the budding fig tree in which i talk about that issue as well that the idea that that israel is is budding is the fig tree and it's a fulfillment of prophecy and so on i i reject that idea in that chapter for example but yeah that the jews the unbelieving jews are are not jews in the biblical sense yes and i i do agree with you and um i know that that is a very sore point with a lot of uh christians of both gentile and jewish christians but i i am in total agreement that that's where the scriptures would bring us to believe uh in fact if anything is racist it would be to claim that the chosen people are exclusively jews that that would be a racist ideology because we believe the the elect are from every tribe and tongue and people and nation both jew and gentile and of course i mean are saying that the jews are are are are from a biblical point of view not true jews does not give us any justification to to be cruel towards them or to to hate them or to wish evil upon them we are to love them as our our neighbors and our even as our enemies just as you have to love all men and all nations as our neighbors and even as our enemies for that matter um that's not anti -semitism to say that we don't believe that your relation is correct that's just telling them the truth we have uh rj in white plains new york who asks i know that you are not a prophet and and i know that you do not claim to be one but do you have a strong belief that jesus will return in your lifetime or or do you not know at all and believe it could be even thousands of years from now i do not believe it will be thousands of years from now uh i i will not i don't know when it will be of course because christ says no no man knows the day or the hour and uh harold camping was a sale but they might know the year well um i'm not even gonna go the harold camping route on that point either but but you get you think it's going to be reasonably soon just from what you think the signs of these scriptures are yes well uh thank you rj in white plains new york keep listening to iron trip and zion radio and keep spreading the word about it in white plains new york and beyond uh let's see we have arnie in perry county pennsylvania and arnie says would you view post -millennialism at all as a recognizably orthodox opinion of eschatology uh and it seems to me that there is only different degree of optimism in regard to how much the earth will be christianized before christ's return there seems to be a lot of similarity otherwise well i would say that post -millennialism is in grave error um it does not fit with the reformed confessions and the reformed confessions determine orthodoxy and reformed churches does not fit with reformed confessions it also uh leads the church into a false sense of security because it says anti -christ and the great tribulation and these things are in the past and therefore we don't need to worry about them happening to us in the future we don't have to prepare ourselves for them because things are just going to get better uh and therefore i'd say it's it's a grave error which i spend a lot of time refuting in my book basically my book i i look at the two positions post -mill and primo uh refute those and expand the true position of isaiah a millennialism and of course not all uh post -millennialists are even partial preterists i have had conversations with a number of post -millennialists who still regard much of the uh the new testament as unfulfilled prophecy do they view matthew 24 and 25 as unfulfilled prophecy or most of it or uh you know i haven't asked them that specifically that i can recall uh but uh but i know that there are even i have spoken with post -millennialists who even are very seriously in opposition to any form of preterism so i would have to have them here obviously with you to answer for themselves about specific absolutely yes obviously in a book you have to make some generalizations because you can't go into every nuance of everyone's position so uh in the in the first chapter i set forth um the approach to the olivet discourse i explain briefly what post -mill is briefly what uh primo is and what then uh i quote from a few uh post mills and so on but obviously you can't speak for every single post -millennial or every single pre -millennial dispensationist because there are so many different views and charts out there that you your head will spin and let's see here um we have uh we have john and bangor main and john and bangor main says have you written any other books other than your book on eschatology that we should be aware of i have not written any other books no i write in the standard bearer which is the uh magazine produced by the reform free publishing association there are various rubrics i write in the all around us rubric which is about current affairs i also write on their blog haven't written for quite a while so i'm a bit behind on that but i had a whole series on there on islam that i wrote on the blog i'm the editor of the british reform journal so i read the editorial for that um that comes out a couple of times three times for pushing it a year that's the british reform .org

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the the journal um and there may be more books in the future i'm working on uh certain things with the rfba we have a question from christian in suffolk county long island new york uh and christian has a question on first peter 2 9 and i have to enlarge the font size of christian's question because it's a very tiny font and at nearly 56 years of age even my glasses don't help matters much in some case um let's see uh first peter 2 9 yes it's something that we uh already brought up okay yep but you are a chosen race a royal priesthood a holy nation a people for god's own possession so that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness into marvelous light why do you believe peter used the term race when there are many races involved in the people that he is speaking to if indeed you are referring if indeed you are referring to the church and i guess he really means if peter is referring to the church uh which is made up from every tribe and tongue well you could make the same thing about holy nation couldn't you um well what he's doing there he is taking old testament names for the church and deliberately applying them to the new testament people of god the church to make crystal clear that they're the same he's not saying that the church consists only of one race of people or generation he's not saying that they consist of only one nation what he's saying is in the old testament there was a holy nation which was israel god's people israel christ said that the kingdom of god will be taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof and now in first peter chapter 2 verse 9 he identifies his readers ye ye are and er refers in first chapter to the strangers scattered abroad throughout various parts of the roman empire so ye are a chosen generation and so on so he's saying you you are you are the new israel you are you are israel you have all the promises that israel had and he even says in verse 10 which in time past were not a people you weren't the people of god in the past the gentiles were not the people of god they were strangers from god but now in the last days with the new with the new testament and the gospel to all the nations you you are now the people of god which have not obtained mercy but now i have obtained mercy and he's quoting there from hosea one and two which interestingly enough if you read hosea one two refers to israel and judah again you can't take the new the old testament properties literally because peter quotes them in reference to the gentiles well thank you very much and uh keep listening to iron chirping's iron radio and spreading the word uh wherever you can and and by the way i'm sure you would agree with me as far as races are concerned there really is only one race in spite of our different color and and hair texture and all these different things that separate the way people look there is really only one race of of humans and that is the human race am i right yes and peter didn't yeah peter didn't have any notion there about talking about skin color when he said chosen race i have chosen generation the king james but he didn't have any any any notion about skin color when he wrote that right yeah well i want you to have right now two minutes of uninterrupted time where you could just summarize what you most want etched on the hearts and minds of our listeners today well thank you very much chris for for having me on uh as as you know my book is about a millennialism i go through matthew 24 and 25 in considerable detail in about 18 chapters plus an introduction um i'd like to just mention again the websites limerickreform .com

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is the limerick reformed fellowship website if anyone is in ireland would like to find a reformed fellowship where they can hear the reformed faith you're welcome to come and visit us the cprf .co

01:57:43

.uk in balamina is our calling church uh many many articles on there some written by me as well uh britishreformed .org

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is the british reformed fellowship which we also use to promote the reformed faith throughout the united kingdom and we hope that people will be able to look at some of those things and they can contact me through those websites as well and uh yes thank you for having me on i enjoyed it it wasn't my idea to come on in the first place i was at the rfba and they and they said mr arns would like to have another author from the rfba to come on and talk uh on his radio show and and would you be interested and i said i don't know so you just have to forget that you're talking to many many people on the radio you just imagine talking just to one person on the phone that makes it a little bit easier yeah well i am certainly glad that you made that decision uh to be on the program and yes we who are calvinists do believe that humans make decisions we just cannot please god in the flesh by making a decision that is salvific until we are regenerate and born from above but i want to thank you so much for being on the program and i really enjoyed it i look forward to your return to the program and in fact one website that you did not mention was rfpa .org

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rfpa .org that's the website for the reformed free publishing association who published the book call to watch for christ's return you can look up many other things there as well and of course our sponsor cvbbs .com