March 5, 2025 Show with Thomas Smith on “Native Americans: A Mission Field On Our Own Soil”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father

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George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

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This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this fifth day of March 2025.

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And I am very excited to have as a first -time guest today, Thomas Smith, who will be addressing a topic on my program that I have never addressed, at least not for a two -hour broadcast.

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We are going to be addressing the theme, We Must Never Forget the Native American Indians as a

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Mission Field on Our Own Soil. And Tom Smith is preparing to be a missionary to the

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Native American people, and specifically the Eastern Band of the Cherokees in North Carolina.

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And we're going to learn more about Tom and what has prepared him for this endeavor.

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And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Thomas Smith.

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Thank you. Good to be with you. Well, Tom, first of all,

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I understand that even before the idea of becoming a missionary to the

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Cherokee, you were involved in ministry in Ukraine and in Croatia.

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Can you tell us something about that? Yes. I was involved with a ministry, which is still ongoing, and I am in a way still involved.

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It's called the International Theological Education Ministry. Back in 1991, the

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Soviet Union fell apart, and shortwave radio broadcast listeners wrote to the

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Back to God Radio Hour, and they asked for teachers to come over and to train their pastors and church leaders.

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Was that Joel Niederhood's ministry? Yes, it was. Yes, I had

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Joel Niederhood. I had Joel on my program a number of years ago, had always been a great admirer of his, and he wrote a very nice commendation for the radio program.

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Is he still with us? I believe he is. There's a seminary called

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Mid -America Seminary in Dyer, Indiana. I visited there a couple years ago, and they told me he was still alive in a nursing home that was like a mile or maybe one or two miles away from the seminary.

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So as of about two years ago, he was alive, but I mean, he's in his 90s now. But it's my understanding, yeah,

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Dr. Joel Niederhood is still alive. Yes, and anyhow, the ministry, as the ministry grew, they changed their name from Christ for Russia to ITEM, International Theological Education Ministry.

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And a number of years ago, the Protestant Reformed Church in Croatia learned about me and some connections

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I had with Croatia. And so they asked me, would you come over and help us?

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Would you come over and help with our church planning and teaching of our young men?

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And so it sounded to me just like a Macedonian call. And so I went.

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But even before I went and accepted that call to Croatia, I had traveled to Kiev, Ukraine to teach a class for ITEM.

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And then once I was living, I moved to Croatia in 2012. And from there,

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I would make some trips into Serbia, Romania and into Ukraine.

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Well, you've got to, next on our list of things to discuss today, fulfill a tradition we have on this program.

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Whenever we have a first -time guest, which would include you, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include any kind of religious atmosphere in which you were raised and the kinds of providential circumstances our

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Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. So let's hear a summary of your story.

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All right. Well, I am blessed to be able to say that I come from a

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Christian family. Both my mother and father and for generations on both sides have been professing believers.

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When I was about four years of age, my father and mother changed churches and we went to a church in Red Lion, Pennsylvania, a little independent

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Bible church called Red Lion Bible Church. And like I said,

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I was about age four, and I do distinctly remember being in a

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Sunday school context and being told that I needed to pray and ask for forgiveness of my sins and for Jesus to come and live in my heart.

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And I remember praying that prayer or some variation thereof.

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Now, I grew up attending Red Lion Bible Church, which was very fundamental in their understanding of scripture.

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Around age 17, I remember a

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Saturday night in October when after youth group, the associate pastor talked about the rich young ruler.

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I believe that was in Mark chapter 10. The rich young ruler comes to Jesus and falls down on his knees and says,

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Lord, what must I do to be saved? And the points that really stuck with me were this guy was religious and he was sincere.

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And anyhow, I believe the Holy Spirit convicted me that evening that I had been living at least an externally religious existence and I was sincere.

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So, you know, that Saturday night when I went home in my bedroom,

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I prayed very sincerely. I didn't want to trust on the fact that I once upon a time prayed what a lot of people call the sinner's prayer or, you know, that I prayed this particular prayer.

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I prayed it the right way, the right words. But I wanted to trust in Jesus Christ alone and completely throw myself into his arms.

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And I did. And after that, I just had a great peace come over me.

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I went on to Penn State University. I studied agriculture. And when

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I was at Penn State, I was discipled by a man by the name of Bill Drips and really got into studying the word of God.

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And then after college, my first job was in Richmond, Virginia, and I visited various churches.

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And there was one church in particular called Stony Point, where that Sunday morning

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I pulled into the parking lot and I was getting out. Another family pulled in and parked next to me.

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The couple got out. The man said, Hi, I'm Phil. And this is my wife, Karen. I see that you're new here.

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And as we walked into the church, he introduced me. It's like, oh, this is

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John and this is Bob and this is so and so. And I was just struck by how friendly they were.

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And when they started singing, people were just really singing with their hearts.

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I mean, just there was clearly an atmosphere of love for the Lord. And then when

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Dr. Frank Crane got up to preach, he just preached in a very direct way that I had not heard before with application.

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And I was just hooked. It was like, well, this is everything I've been looking for in a church. And that at the time,

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Stony Point was doing a program called Evangelism Explosion. You've heard of that.

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Yeah, D. James Kennedy started that, I believe, in the 80s, perhaps. Yeah, well, this was 1989.

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And so I got excited about that. I was like, yeah, evangelism is, you know,

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I think every church should have an evangelism program. And so I signed up that was that fall,

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September of 89. I got involved in Evangelism Explosion and I had two prayer partners.

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And back in the day, there used to be this thing called Monday Night Football. And I'd go over to these two guys, it was

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Jeff and Jim, and we would watch football until halftime and then we turn off the

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TV and pray. And Jeff was the one that started talking to me about the sovereignty of God.

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And I was like, well, of course, I believe in the sovereignty of God is right there in the Bible. I mean, who can who can deny it?

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I mean, you can't run away from what's clearly in Scripture. And as we talked,

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Jeff talked about some of these Reformed ideas and he gave me a book to read and I just got hooked.

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And later that fall, I joined Stony Point and Stony Point happens to be a

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Presbyterian church in America. And so since 1989, I've been in the PCA.

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Great. I'm assuming that that is simultaneous with your coming to hear and embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace known as Reformed theology.

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Yes, yes, yes. So that's that's my story in terms of having a

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Christian family and background. You know, I certainly sat through a multitude of of revival meetings, a lot of altar calls and things like that.

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And I mean, I certainly have, you know, as a child, prayed the sinner's prayer many times, but it wasn't until near the end of high school and going into college that I really had peace when

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I understood the difference between just saying the words and actually trusting Christ.

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Amen. Well, as I've already announced, our main theme today is about the importance of never forgetting the

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Native American Indians as a mission field on our own soil here in the United States.

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And having started in your evangelistic efforts in Ukraine, Croatia, and I forgot to say earlier,

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Romania as well, how did the focus shift from those people groups, ethnic groups, to having a burden for the

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Native Americans? And how did you arrive at settling specifically upon having the

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Cherokee in your mind as you are now trying to raise awareness and support for this endeavor?

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Wow. OK, I will. I'll try to pull all those threads together without getting too crazy in the details.

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So I was living and working with the

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Reformed Church in Croatia from 2012 to 2019.

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It had become clear to me by the end of 2018 that my work was really drawing to a close in Croatia.

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The church planter who I stay in touch with, in fact, I just talked to him yesterday on the phone.

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The church planter I was helping was doing great. He had three men in the church that seemed to be spiritually mature.

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And so he didn't, the church planter didn't really need me around to help with the ministry.

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And then the seminary, which was in a different city, it had fewer and fewer young men taking classes.

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Back about that time, Croatia had joined the European Union. When that happened, that opened the door, allowing people to just move to other parts of the

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EU. So people could, I'll give you an example.

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I know a young man named Veed, who has a master's degree in agronomy and agriculture, and he got a job working in Austria at a truck stop and he got room and board along with the job.

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At the end of the month, he had at least €2 ,000 left over after all his expenses recovered.

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He could never get a job like that in Croatia. And of course, his dream is to someday buy a farm and be a farmer.

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And so young people were just leaving in droves, I mean, busloads and plane loads of people gone to Austria and Germany and Sweden and Ireland just to get,

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I mean, even if it was working, you know, basic, what we'd consider basic jobs, they were still making way more money.

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We saw the same thing happen when Romania joined the European Union. Over one million

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Romanians left and went to France and Italy and Spain and other places just to be able to make a living and have a better life.

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So anyhow, there were very few seminary students to teach and I just perceived,

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OK, my time here is done. And then at the end, simultaneous with this was

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Ida needed someone to be their executive director. And so I applied, interviewed for that position and out of the candidates, the board selected me.

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And so then back in the summer of 2019, I moved back to the United States and I started doing this job, but it involved a fair amount of travel, both domestically and internationally.

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And I enjoyed it immensely because the ministry of making disciples is so, so important,

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I believe. And I was doing that, I met my wife

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October of 2020. Wow, that's very recent.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. So her former pastor, his name is

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Sasha Wallacord, is out in the Grand Rapids, Michigan area.

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And I was in Grand Rapids and I had set up a coffee appointment with Sasha and we're talking and I told him about being lonely.

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I didn't like being lonely. And he said, you know, brother, there's a woman back in Iowa who

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I think would be just right for you. And like, oh, come on, man, I've heard that one before.

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You know, it's like, I don't think there's too many American women that they're not into ministry.

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I mean, you know, being a pastor or worse, being a missionary, you know, this is not the pathway to the having the quintessential four bedroom house and the white picket fence and two car garage and, you know, the

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American dream. And it's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. She's different. And so I go,

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OK. So he introduced us, that was October 2020. And one year and a few days later, we were married.

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And oh, my goodness, my wife, I mean, when when we first got to talking, she was like, well,

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I have some questions for you. I want to know about your eschatology and I want to know about your your views of the days of creation.

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And I was like, wow, this is amazing. So I I'm a literal six day creationist, as am

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I. And by the way, by the way, I might as well quickly plug my next

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio free pastor's luncheon featuring six day creationist, the world renowned

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Christian astrophysicist Dr. Jason Lyle, who will be my next keynote speaker on Thursday, May 1st.

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Here in Pennsylvania, and if anyone would like to register, if you're a man in ministry leadership, email me at chrisarnsen at gmail dot com, chrisarnsen at gmail dot com, and you can register for that luncheon.

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But anyway, I interrupted you. Oh, no, no, no, no, that's fine. That's fine.

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So my wife is from northwest Iowa. And since I I was

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I was working as the executive director for item, I it didn't really matter where I lived.

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I could be anywhere in the USA as long as I had access to an airport and as long as I had decent cell phone service and Internet coverage,

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I could pretty much do my job. And so I grew up on a farm in Pennsylvania.

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I love farms. I love the rural just living out in the country.

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So we made the decision. I made the decision to move out here. And like I said, we got married

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October of twenty twenty one. And then after the honeymoon, we we settled in and we began talking about the future.

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And my wife in in in in bringing up the subject, it was more in along the lines of what she might be doing in terms of her education or future education and goals and career.

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But in that process, God used that and I realized, oh, here's a woman who wants to work alongside of me.

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And I'm in a I'm in a current ministry position where I'm traveling a good bit, going out of town at least once a month.

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And I don't think this is a good this isn't a good way to get started in a marriage.

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So I realized I need a local ministry because I really couldn't incorporate my wife in into what

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I was doing. I mean, I could maybe take her along on one or two trips a year.

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But. And so I started I started looking at local churches, you know, going back into the pastorate.

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But as those doors just didn't seem to open. I remembered an opportunity that had come to my attention a few years earlier.

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There is a church out in Oregon. It was, I believe, on an

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Indian reservation and they were in need of a pastor and they're having a hard time finding a pastor.

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And it broke my heart because I thought, oh, my goodness, I would love to go and be their pastor.

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I have just always enjoyed Native American Indian history and the people.

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My grandmother supported or gave support to a Blackfoot children's school.

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And so they would send her gifts and trinkets and all sorts of things. So I grew up with Native American Indian stuff.

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I mean, it was obviously Blackfoot things all around my house.

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And and so there was just an affinity for this people group. I must confess

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I love horses, so I've always had an affinity to certain people groups like the Mongolians, for example.

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But Native American Indians are, you know, many of them are horse people.

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And so maybe that was part of it as well. And so I reached out to a guy

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I knew in Arizona and he got got me in touch with his boss, a gentleman by the name of Bill Carr.

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And Bill is up in North Dakota and Bill's with Mission to the

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World. And being in the PCA, I knew

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Mission to the World, MTW, is the national or international missions agency.

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And so talk to them. And Bill said, well, right now we're not expanding any new work, but you can you know, we'd like you to check out some of the existing work and see which which team that you would become that you'd be called to join.

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So my wife and I went out to Flagstaff, Arizona, and met the couple there and their work with the

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Navajo. I really like them a lot. You know, love that couple. We also visited

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Cherokee, North Carolina, which is in the very southwestern edge of the state of North Carolina.

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And this is, of course, where the Cherokee originally where their homeland was. And the couple there, we just really clicked with and it just seemed like a good fit.

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And anyhow, you know, some things came up and and it didn't seem like it was going to work.

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And I was disappointed. And they were just the couple there, Scott and Ruth Hill, they were disappointed.

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And we left, we drove back to Iowa, then a couple of months went by and my wife and I had spent the weekend in Omaha, Nebraska, visiting a church and met with a pastor and his wife.

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And that morning at the Monday morning devotional, we were going around the table praying for different missionaries that we knew.

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And my wife just just prayed for Scott and Ruth. And later in the car, in the drive home, she's like,

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I don't know why. You know, the Holy Spirit put them on my mind,

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I hadn't thought about them for quite a while. And so we were talking about ministry and what

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I was looking for in terms of a calling. And I said, look, I want to go and do something where I can do evangelism and where I can do outreach, where I can do discipleship.

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And that evening, once we got home to our home in northwest Iowa, I get a text message from Scott and he said, we've been thinking and praying about you.

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We really would love if you could come and join us.

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We need you to do evangelism, outreach and discipleship. And just the choice of words, it wasn't just those words, but some other things.

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And it was like, this is crazy because these were the exact words I used in a private conversation in the car with my wife.

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So I gave Scott a call. He told me that this one person who looked like they were going to be a problem, was no longer a problem.

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And it looked like an open door. And so we did a Zoom call together. We talked some more.

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And then my wife and I went back out for another visit to Cherokee. And then

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Scott wrote a letter officially inviting me to join his team and to join the work in Cherokee.

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So that's how Cherokee worked out. I wanted to go with MTW because they're reformed, because they emphasize teams.

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There are some other mission works or ministries for Native Americans, but they're all not necessarily reformed and they don't all necessarily emphasize having teams or working as teams.

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When I read the book of Acts, I see the Apostle Paul and then also

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Barnabas going forth as part of teams. That ministry really needs to happen, you know, as teamwork.

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And so that was important to me. And as I said, MTW only had a few locations.

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There was some ministry going on up in Canada, in Ontario and Alberta. But because of Canada's COVID policy, we couldn't get in there to visit.

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And so that sort of shut the door on going into Canada. MTW has worked in Cherokee, North Carolina, for over 30 years.

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Some folks there in Cherokee reached out to the PCA. The Mission to North America, the part of the mission agency that focuses on domestic ministry, they originally were asked or offered the opportunity to work in Cherokee.

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But at that time, they were understaffed and they weren't in a position to take on a new work like this.

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So then MTW, Mission to the World, was asked and MTW said, sure, we'll do it.

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And so that was actually their first Native American or indigenous work.

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Since then, they're in, like I said, Flagstaff, Arizona, and then up in near Linden, Washington, up with the

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Nooksack and Lummi people. Well, we have to go to that.

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That's how it got. Yeah, we have to go to our first commercial break. And if anybody has a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com.

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Give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence. Don't go away. We'll be right back. This program is sponsored by Hope PR Ministry.

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I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Originally from Cork, Ireland, the

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But today I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.

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Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You. The radio ministry of John MacArthur in the film

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You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.

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That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.

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We are now back with Thomas Smith, who is embarking on a missionary project to the

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Cherokee people of North Carolina in Cherokee, North Carolina. And if you have a question, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

39:39

Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. And if you could, Tom, tell us something about the

39:48

Cherokee people and perhaps anything that you are aware of where they are unique amongst

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Native tribes across North America. I don't know if there still exists a great diversity amongst the tribes as there once was to the point where there were tribes that were warring enemies against each other 150 or more years ago.

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And so tell us about the Cherokee. What do you know about them and how perhaps do they stand out as unique?

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Well, the number one thing that makes the Cherokee unique in North America is they're one of only about three tribes that have their own written language.

40:49

You've probably heard of the name Sequoia, for which the Sequoia trees in California are named.

40:56

Sequoia, along with, he has some help from other people, but he primarily developed the

41:05

Cherokee alphabet and created the written

41:12

Cherokee language. I think there's only two other tribes beside the

41:17

Cherokee that have a written language. No other, none of the other tribes in North America are like that.

41:26

The Cherokee have for them, I think, unless you go back to like ancient, ancient times, but up until hundreds of years ago, they lived in the southeastern

41:41

United States. Their home territory or home range ranged from North Georgia all the way up into what

41:50

Southwest Virginia, maybe a little bit of Southern West Virginia, but it was pretty much eastern

41:58

Kentucky, eastern Tennessee, and then western North Carolina was where most of their territory was.

42:09

They're divided up into seven clans and they were more of a settled tribe.

42:21

They had established villages and towns within their territory.

42:28

They would at times fight with other tribes in the region.

42:35

Back in the 1750s or late 1750s, early 1760s, so we're talking 15 to 20 years before the

42:46

American Revolution, there was a Presbyterian minister in Virginia by the name of Samuel Davies.

42:53

Have you ever heard of him? Oh, yeah. I've done a program on him from someone who wrote a biography.

43:04

Okay, yeah. There's a friend of mine down in Florida by the name of Dewey Roberts. That's exactly who

43:10

I interviewed. Okay, super. Well, anyhow, in this biography on Samuel Davies, just so that your listeners have an understanding, he was the pastor to Patrick Henry, the great orator who said, give me liberty or give me death.

43:33

Probably his greatest theological and political as well as oratory influence on Patrick Henry was

43:40

Samuel Davies. And anyhow, Samuel Davies had a heart reaching the Cherokee, and so he took down a few years, but he raised the money and he sent first one and then later a second seminary graduate into the

44:00

Cherokee territory. Neither of these two guys lasted very long.

44:06

I think they got frustrated and they gave up. But that was back, like I said, about 20 years before the

44:14

American Revolution. Calvinists are not supposed to do that, give up. No, no.

44:20

We know that God has an elect people in every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and that even if our labors are unsuccessful in a time frame when we are hoping, we are supposed to stick it in there or stick it out, or I don't know how you phrase that, stick in there.

44:42

And in fact, we are more well known for doing that historically, but I guess not with Samuel Davies.

44:51

Well, it wasn't him, but it was the guys he recruited. Oh, OK. I think they were just young in nature.

44:58

I really do. I think that had been the problem.

45:08

So anyhow, these guys, so I think beginning in the mid 1700s,

45:14

Cherokee, as they encountered more and more European settlers, they were getting introduced to Christianity.

45:32

It was probably later, oh, maybe after the

45:40

Revolution, maybe late 1700s into the 1800s that there were some missionaries going.

45:48

In fact, there was one of the, and his name's escaping me right now,

45:55

I want to say Samuel Worcester, but I don't, that might not be the correct, his correct name, but he was from New England and the

46:07

Congregationalist Mission Board, he had applied to be a missionary.

46:13

He was expecting to be sent across the ocean, but instead they said, no, we want you to go to the

46:19

Cherokee. And so he went down there and began ministry back around 1820.

46:27

And so, you know, the Cherokee heard the gospel, but I really don't believe that there was a very good effort to make disciples.

46:43

I mean, what drives me, and I believe what should drive every Christian, is what

46:51

Jesus said to his disciples in Matthew 28. Yeah, the Great Commission. Go, exactly, go into all the world, make disciples of all nations, you know, teaching them to obey all that I've commanded you and baptizing them in the name of the

47:08

Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. And, you know, the imperative verb is make disciples.

47:17

When you look at in the Greek, you know, make disciples is the verb, and the subject, or the object of that verb is the nations.

47:29

We are to be discipling nations. And when

47:34

I look at the Cherokee, I mean, you can visit Cherokee, North Carolina, right now, and you'll find a smattering of churches, but they tend to be very small, and they tend, you sit through a service, this sermon, no matter what the text, always ends the same way, come to Jesus.

47:59

You know, walk the aisle, pray the sinner's prayer, come to Jesus. Okay, well,

48:04

I did that this week, now what? What's next? Well, you go back and you hear the same thing, come to Jesus.

48:12

And week after week, it's come to Jesus. That's as far as you get. And it's like, you know,

48:20

I believe that evangelism is just the first step into making disciples.

48:28

You know, just like your wedding day is the first day of your marriage, but that wedding day is not the sum total of your marriage.

48:36

That's just the first day. And to be a disciple is to be a student, to learn, to, you know, in Bible times, and even today, it's someone who's a student, like an intern, or like a journeyman, or an apprentice, you're studying under a master.

48:58

And so whatever your discipline happens to be, whether it's economics, it's like, well, what kind of economics?

49:05

Oh, you say, well, you know, I follow Milton Friedman, or I follow

49:11

Keynes. Or if you're in psychology, it's like, what kind of psychologist? Oh, well, he's a

49:18

Freudian psychologist. Well, what does that mean? It means that he follows after Freud, or, you know, and on and on and on, whatever the discipline, there's somebody that you're following.

49:30

And in the book of Acts, at the end of chapter 11, it says that in Antioch, the disciples were first called

49:39

Christians. And so when I hear, and I'm sorry for going on a rant here, but when

49:49

I hear some people say, well, that's the job of the pastor or the professional missionary to make disciples.

49:55

It's like, no, if you are a Christian, that means you are a follower of Christ.

50:02

You're also, according to the Bible, you are a disciple. And so what

50:09

Jesus commanded in Matthew 28 is not optional. It's for everyone.

50:16

And so it just, when I look at ministry to Native American Indians, when

50:23

I look at ministry to the Cherokee, it breaks my heart that we have done such a poor job.

50:30

And so like with the Cherokee, when if you're not growing in your faith, other ideas fill the void.

50:41

I mean, what's that expression? Nature abhors a vacuum. I mean, if you have an empty space, it will get filled.

50:47

And so what you see in the 1800s is you see people,

50:53

I mean, you see the Cherokee becoming syncretistic, hanging on to some of the old ways while still claiming to follow

51:03

Christ. There is a man who, I mean, a Cherokee man by the name of Willie West Long, he was born in 1869.

51:14

His father was a Baptist minister. But guess what? His mother was a witch doctor.

51:20

She was a shaman. So what, you know, we're talking 1860s.

51:26

What do you have a Baptist pastor married to a witch doctor? You know, and so there was very little, if any, disciple making going on there.

51:39

And, you know, this can be, you know, seen in a lot of Native American ministries.

51:50

I mean, even today where there are churches, whether it's on the Navajo Nation, whether it's out in Oklahoma or out here in the

51:59

Dakotas or where, you know, just, you know, across the country, when you have some, you know,

52:07

I'll say white, you know, a pale skin missionary pastor, and, you know, at some point we all expire.

52:18

We all, you know, either we have to retire or we all die, but something happens.

52:25

And when the, if the, let's just say the white pastor leaves, there's no men, there's no indigenous leadership that has been trained and raised up to come in and take over.

52:42

I mean, there are some Native pastors, you know, I'm not trying to paint a picture where they're, you know,

52:49

I'm not saying that there's not any at all across North America. There's just not a lot of them.

52:56

And I, again, I bring that up just to point to the fact that I think the

53:02

American church has failed to make disciples of the nations here in North America.

53:09

Right. Well, we have to go to our midway break right now, and there are some folks waiting to have their questions asked and answered.

53:19

And if you would like to get in line behind them, send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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Welcome back. Before I return to my guest Thomas Smith and our conversation on his project to become a missionary to the

01:06:01

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01:08:54

Thomas Smith, about his missionary endeavors to the

01:08:59

Cherokee people in North Carolina. And our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:09:06

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. And by the way, I've got to find out from my friend

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Dan Buttafuoco, attorney at law, who is the founder and president of the

01:09:18

Historical Bible Society, which Native American Bible he puts on display as he travels from church to church and school to school, giving a demonstration, a presentation on how we receive the

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Bible in the English language. He's got rare Bibles and books of antiquity that he puts on display, and one of them is the very first Bible in a

01:09:46

Native American language, and I can't remember which tribe it was, but I'll try to find out for you. But we have

01:09:53

Forsyth in Lloyd Harbor, Long Island, New York, and Forsyth asks, is there still a lot of hostility towards the

01:10:09

Christian faith from Native American people because they have been duped into believe this is the white man's religion and nothing, but ill can come upon them by associating themselves with it and viewing it as a betrayal of their own heritage?

01:10:33

To answer that question, I would say it runs the spectrum. Yes, there is hostility.

01:10:43

This is going back to what I said earlier about the failure to disciple. When you fail to disciple and people have walked an aisle, prayed a prayer, they're told, okay,

01:10:58

Jesus is your Savior and you're not going to go to hell, and now just go forth and live your life.

01:11:06

If they're not instructed from Scripture, all kinds of ideas either from their past remain or just traditional beliefs are assimilated, and the fancy word for that is syncretism.

01:11:23

Well, over time, that kind of Christianity, it has a form of godliness, but denies the power thereof.

01:11:33

And so that Christianity becomes weak, anemic, and doesn't really address all the problems that you find in reservations, including in Cherokee.

01:11:49

In Cherokee, North Carolina, they have pretty much the same problems as you'll find in any reservation or reserve.

01:11:56

You have people self -medicating with alcohol, drugs, and then, of course, that contributes to, as well as alongside of domestic violence, broken homes, children being raised very chaotically.

01:12:19

You have child trafficking, sex trafficking going on, and then there's a lot of hopelessness and despair.

01:12:26

At least that brings on a raft of suicides.

01:12:33

And so when the younger generations of Native American Indians look around, and they see all the suicide and the drugs and the alcohol and the domestic violence and broken homes and the misery, and there's just this gloom of hopelessness, and they're aware there are churches on the res, and there are particularly the parents, grandparents, more so the grandparents that are professing

01:13:03

Christians, and they're like, well, hey, this is the white man's religion, and it doesn't work.

01:13:10

It doesn't work. We need to go back to the ways of our people.

01:13:15

And so younger generations are more,

01:13:21

I don't know, more interested in investigating ancient beliefs, traditional beliefs than they are

01:13:29

Christianity. They will reject it. So, I mean, there is some hostility there, and it varies.

01:13:37

It varies from tribe to tribe. In some tribes, they're very fine with Christianity, but then in other places, you will run into a great deal of hostility.

01:13:51

Tom What tribe, to your knowledge, has a more widespread acceptance of the

01:13:59

Christian faith, where you actually have tribespeople who have, by the grace and mercy of Christ, been converted to Christianity?

01:14:10

David I would say, from what I know, I think the Navajo are very open.

01:14:19

I think the Cherokee on Oklahoma, the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, these are the descendants of those, of their ancestors who were forcibly removed from Tennessee, North Carolina, Georgia, and marked out west on what's called the

01:14:37

Trail of Tears. You'll find a great deal of Christians among the tribes in Oklahoma, among the

01:14:48

Cherokee, the Muscogee, the Creek, the

01:14:53

Choctaw. Also in Oklahoma, the Kiowa, I think, are more open to Christianity, but definitely the

01:15:05

Navajo. Tom And we do have

01:15:12

Calhoun in Camp Hill, Pennsylvania, and Calhoun asks the question, is most of your evangelism to the

01:15:24

Cherokee done in their own native language or in English? I'm assuming most, if not all, of the

01:15:31

Native American tribes on the North American content are very familiar and fluent in the

01:15:37

English language. David In English, I do not speak

01:15:43

Cherokee. I know a few words, but I cannot, honestly,

01:15:48

I cannot speak Cherokee. Sadly, very few

01:15:54

Cherokee can speak the Cherokee language. I mean, there's probably, as far as enrolled members of the three officially recognized bands of Cherokee, there's probably like 350 ,000

01:16:11

Cherokee, maybe a thousand can speak and understand the

01:16:18

Cherokee language. So very few Cherokee Indians themselves actually speak their own language.

01:16:28

Tom Okay. We have Bruno in Pella, Iowa, who wants to know, what are you doing to fully prepare for being a missionary to the

01:16:42

Cherokee? David Well, besides raising financial support,

01:16:49

I'm also raising up prayer warriors, prayer supporters, because all of life, until Christ returns, all of life involves spiritual warfare, spiritual battles.

01:17:07

It doesn't matter if you're in a suburban setting like Carlisle, Pennsylvania, or where you are, if you're in a big city or out in the country, there's going to be spiritual warfare.

01:17:21

But it is more palpable, more tangible on the reservation where there is demonic activity.

01:17:30

And, you know, for my colleagues who are working with the

01:17:36

Navajo, with the Lummi, and with the

01:17:41

Cree up in Ontario, and with the Blackfeet up in Alberta, the work is slow.

01:17:52

I mean, there's just, I mean, it takes a long time to build trust. And there is resistance.

01:18:02

And so I need prayer warriors.

01:18:08

I need people praying fervently for me, for me and my wife and family.

01:18:14

And so that is one thing. But also just growing closer in Christ, just becoming more disciplined in all areas of life, but also just learning, continuing to learn about the

01:18:36

Cherokee, Cherokee culture, so that, you know, I can,

01:18:42

I don't know, be a better communicator. So that's what

01:18:48

I'm doing. Now, you obviously are revealing that you have a lot of knowledge about the

01:18:56

Native Americans in general, but are you in communication also with members of the

01:19:04

Cherokee people in order to better accustom yourself to just a lot of things about their day -to -day lives, dislikes, likes, needs, and all that kind of thing?

01:19:21

I have, I'm in constant communication, I'd say weekly communication with my team leader,

01:19:29

Scott Hill, who is in Cherokee. I've been in touch with some of the folks coming to Grace Community Church of Cherokee.

01:19:41

So mainly my communication is with Scott.

01:19:49

Scott has been in Cherokee for 11 years, and seven years ago he started

01:19:54

Grace Community Church. Is that a PTA congregation, Presbyterian Church in America?

01:19:59

It is, it is, it is, yeah. Yeah, I mean, not to be confused with Grace Community Church of California, Dr.

01:20:09

McCarthy's church. Well, there has been a common thread amongst

01:20:19

Americans, not only liberals and leftists, but even,

01:20:25

I would say, to a large degree, perhaps, but not perhaps the dominant view amongst conservatives, but I'm sure that many conservatives have this white man towards the

01:20:52

Native tribes across North America, and also perhaps even going back further,

01:20:58

Western Europeans and their efforts after landing upon the soil. It is viewed as, for the most part, steeped in bigotry, not in a genuine compassion to see

01:21:18

Native Americans rescued from the world of flesh and the devil and from hell, but perhaps to keep them in their place, so -called, or being more concerned with making them as close to white folk as possible and not really seeing them transformed for Christ as a primary reason that they're being evangelized.

01:21:53

How much of that, from your knowledge of history and even your knowledge of current -day missionary work, how much of that was a part and is a part of the so -called missionary work to the

01:22:09

Native American? Was it the dominant part, or do you think it was more of a minority part that has given

01:22:18

Christian missionary work to the Native Americans a bad name and scarred the reputation of Christians who do work with Native Americans in a slanderous way or in a distorted way?

01:22:33

What can you tell us about that? What I would say is that that was not a dominant part.

01:22:42

I think that, as I am studying, and this is something that I hope to spend more time diving into, a history of ministry among Native Americans.

01:22:58

I think that those who engaged Native Americans going back to the late 1600s through the 1700s and 1800s,

01:23:08

I think the majority genuinely wanted to see them reach for Christ. And we're talking about evangelical

01:23:15

Protestants. There has been a genuine heartfelt desire to see

01:23:26

Native American Indians be converted to trust in Christ, to follow him.

01:23:36

Are there mixed motives? Yes. I mean, when you look back over, say, the last 300 years of history, you will find examples that are no different than modern -day men in ministry.

01:23:52

I mean, how many scandals over the last 40, 50, 60 years of people who have started churches that have grown and become megachurches, and maybe they even started with good, shall we say, pure, not that any of us are pure, but maybe they started with very good motives.

01:24:14

But over time, other things, other desires, the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, the pride of life creeps in.

01:24:26

So we are sinners, and it's amazing that God even uses us to do his work, to advance his kingdom.

01:24:37

So there have been people who have not been solely concerned about the spiritual welfare of Indians, but I'd say for the most part, the majority has been wanting to see

01:24:55

Indians come to faith in Jesus Christ. And where I live,

01:25:03

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, where I now live, I'm a native New Yorker, but I live in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and one of the things that is a claim to fame for us is that for a time, it was the hometown of Jim Thorpe, the world -renowned

01:25:20

Native American athlete and Olympian and so forth.

01:25:29

He was in a Native American school here in Carlisle, which is now the

01:25:36

United States Army War College, and in fact, there is a graveyard of some of the

01:25:43

Native American students there that, I believe most of them, their names were not known.

01:25:52

I think they're unmarked graves or something like that. But there has been a debate raging on for decades as to whether or not the

01:26:08

Native American schools were a positive or negative influence.

01:26:14

Now, obviously, as you said, these schools were not exclusively run by Christians who were faithful to Christ and doing things with proper motives, but there seems to me, on the one hand, a very compassionate effort if you want these young Native American Indian children to have more of a promise and realistic hope of being financially successful and independent and enjoying the opportunities before them in careers and so forth in this country, you would have to assimilate them to a large degree to American ways of life.

01:27:11

And, of course, just like with anything else that when you're dealing with sinners, you're dealing with imperfect people, you may have had abuses of that where things that were part of the

01:27:26

Native American culture and history and tradition that were not offensive to God—we're not talking about worshiping false gods and things like that—but things just like every ethnic group that immigrated to the

01:27:43

United States has their own unique customs and traditions that are innocuous, that are not an offense to God.

01:27:52

So tell us about your opinion, from what you know of it anyway, of the value or harm of these

01:28:00

Native American schools. And I don't know if you know anything about the Carlisle School for Indians, but tell us about that.

01:28:08

Well, I'm aware of the Carlisle School, and I think that how you described it was very good.

01:28:17

That was run by the government. I think the idea has merit that, as you said and pointed out, to give the best opportunities for young Indians to succeed in American society, for them to be trained.

01:28:46

But there were also abuses in the system, because as you rightly pointed out, these were government schools.

01:28:56

They weren't run by compassionate Christians. There were many, many cases of where children were forcibly removed from their parents against their will and against the will of the parents, where the treatment was harsh at times.

01:29:15

It really varied. I was talking to a

01:29:21

Navajo woman out in Flagstaff, and she met her husband in a government school.

01:29:28

Her memories—this has gone back to the 1950s and 60s—she had great memories, and her experience was positive, as was for her husband.

01:29:41

But just because you can find that one positive experience doesn't mean that there weren't negative ones.

01:29:48

So there were a multitude or a spectrum.

01:29:54

Some people got through and got their education and went out and got jobs and started businesses and assimilated into American life.

01:30:07

Other people, it was a horrific experience. So it's a mixed bag, and that's what

01:30:17

I know. That has been a main issue with all missionary endeavors to people of foreign nations.

01:30:29

Obviously, in this case, it was Native Americans. But when you're talking about missionaries to Africa and South America, and even before that,

01:30:41

Hudson Taylor and his missionary efforts in China, there was always an issue of, by some anyway, seeking balance.

01:30:54

I mean, Hudson Taylor, I think, was even rebuked by British Christians for his dressing like average

01:31:04

Chinese men and wearing his hair with a long ponytail and that kind of thing, if I'm not mistaken.

01:31:12

And of course, in Africa and other places, especially liberals and leftists have harshly criticized

01:31:24

North American and Western European Christians for trying to, as I even mentioned earlier, trying to just proselytize a

01:31:41

British or American way of life and dress and custom above and beyond the gospel.

01:31:49

So that's always been really an issue and a dilemma. Am I making sense there?

01:31:57

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we all, you know, in a sense, carry with us, we don't ever really truly escape our family of origin, the culture that we were raised in, how we grew up.

01:32:17

You know, you could grow up in a family that was very neat and tidy and, you know, just had a daily or weekly routine of just scrubbing everything.

01:32:32

And to you, that becomes the standard. And then, you know, you meet somebody else who grows up and they, yeah, they clean their house, but it wasn't as vigorous.

01:32:43

It wasn't as thorough. It wasn't as systematic. And you could easily look down, you know, on that other person for how they clean their house.

01:32:52

And so there's that which we carry with us and certainly our cultural biases and opinions.

01:33:03

And that certainly comes across in sometimes how we teach.

01:33:12

We think that we're teaching the Bible, but we're coming across with our interpretation and that our interpretation may be shaped more by our how we were raised and our personal or family biases.

01:33:31

But in terms of trying to make, whether it's

01:33:37

Native American Indians or the, you know,

01:33:42

South American Indians or the peoples in Africa or Southeast Asia, whomever we're going to, that somehow we're trying to make them

01:33:56

American or we're trying to make them, you know, Anglos. And like I said before,

01:34:06

I mean, in terms of mixed motives, I mean, there's always that. We think we're making disciples for Christ.

01:34:17

And so we'll emphasize certain cultural things and come down hard on certain things.

01:34:28

And so we're trying in one sense, maybe the converse, the followers that we're working with, our influence on them might be, they might start looking more and more like Americans or certainly developing

01:34:45

American attitudes. When I was in Eastern Europe, I certainly noticed among some of the

01:34:53

Baptist and Pentecostal Christians that I met, they were very much influenced by American missionaries and, you know, had picked up American Christian lingo and just ideas.

01:35:11

So, I mean, it's there. It really is there.

01:35:18

And of course, this phenomenon is not only something attached to missionary endeavors.

01:35:26

There are pastors right here in the United States that have elevated their own personal preferences of dress and precise melodies of music that they impose upon others as being the only way a

01:35:48

Christian should act, dress, and worship. Now, I know that the reverse is true, and please,

01:35:56

I don't want my fundamentalist friends to think that I am downplaying the importance of modest dress.

01:36:04

I think far too many, especially Christian women and even young ladies in their teens, are dressing scandalously, and they don't even realize it, perhaps, just because their parents allow them to, wearing very revealing clothing and things like that.

01:36:22

Very opposed to all that. And I think there is something to be said about the laziness with which one may approach the worship of God by dressing like an absolute slob when they go to church.

01:36:40

You know, I think that there are arguments against that kind of behavior that are valid.

01:36:46

But at the same time, we must be very careful not to be Pharisees, where we elevate things of personal preference to dogma.

01:36:56

And, you know, of course, music is the biggest battleground for debate. I agree with my more conservative,

01:37:04

Reformed, and fundamentalist friends that there is certain music being performed—and

01:37:13

I use that word for a reason in churches—that is entertainment or, you know, just totally removing the whole atmosphere of reverence and worship and awe, where you are…sometimes bands are so loud you can't even hear what anybody's singing, or the band's…the whole worship team mentality has been a detriment to congregational singing and worship.

01:37:50

So I agree with a lot of the concerns of very conservative, Reformed, and fundamentalist

01:37:56

Christians, but I think that we have to be careful not to make idols of things that are our personal preferences.

01:38:04

Right. I agree. Just to throw something out there, a bit of trivia, to militate against the false stereotype that all missionaries had some kind of selfish and bigoted motive to their endeavors.

01:38:29

I, by providence, used to live five minutes from here in a different apartment that was a

01:38:40

Presbyterian parsonage here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, from the late 19th century to the early 20th century.

01:38:52

It was the parsonage of George Norcross, a Presbyterian pastor, who was appointed as the first pastor of Second Presbyterian Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, which was formed because some disgruntled, or perhaps that's not the right word, some biblically faithful Christians in the

01:39:19

First Presbyterian Church of Carlisle were very concerned and dismayed by liberalism creeping into the church even in the 19th century, and they planted

01:39:32

Second Presbyterian Church in Carlisle, and George Norcross was their first pastor, and the house that I used to live in was built for Dr.

01:39:43

Norcross for his parsonage. But his brother -in -law, his brother -in -law who spent a lot of time in that home where I lived, before I was born, of course,

01:39:54

Sheldon Jackson, is interestingly listed in Time magazine's top 10

01:40:03

Alaskans of history, and he was a Presbyterian minister, traveled more than a million miles to spread the

01:40:12

Christian gospel, founding churches and missions nationwide along the way.

01:40:18

Many of these churches were among the Native American people, and he spent the latter part of his life exploring the vast territory that would later become

01:40:28

Alaska, and in 1885, the U .S. government appointed him the region's first -ever education superintendent, tasking him with setting up free public schools for Native Americans, Eskimo, and white children, and Jackson introduced reindeer to Alaska, importing the animals from Siberia in 1892 as an alternative meat source because there were fears of famine, and cattle and other animals could not survive the frigid winters.

01:41:07

So, I think that that is a very noble endeavor, and a kind of successfully accomplished endeavor from a

01:41:16

Presbyterian pastor and missionary who had not only the souls but even the physical well -being of the

01:41:26

Native Americans utmost in his heart and mind during his life as an ambassador for Christ.

01:41:35

So, I just thought I'd throw that out there. Oh, that's a great story. Yeah. And also, before I forget,

01:41:43

I want to remind our listeners that you can hear, since Samuel Davies was brought up earlier, you can hear an interview that I did with my guest's friend,

01:41:57

Dr. Dewey Roberts, on Samuel Davies' Apostle to Virginia, which was originally conducted on February 13, 2018.

01:42:07

If you type in Samuel Davies in the search engine at irontreppanzionradio .com,

01:42:13

that link will come up. And also, a dear friend of mine, Mack Tomlinson, conducted an interview on Iron Treppanzion Radio on July 22, 2019, on the

01:42:25

Brainerd Brothers and Early Colonial American Gospel Ministry to Unreached Groups, and David and John Brainerd were known for their missionary endeavors amongst the

01:42:35

Native American people. So, I just thought I'd throw that out there. Brainerd, by the way, if you're going to be putting it in the search engine of my website, is

01:42:42

B -R -A -I -N -E -R -D, and that interview will come up.

01:42:48

Well, we are going to our final break, and if you do have a question for my guest, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:43:00

Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. Don't go away.

01:43:05

We're going to be right back. I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Lynbrook Baptist Church, a

01:43:25

Christ -centered, gospel -driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York, and play our role in fulfilling the

01:43:33

Great Commission, supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth. We're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family.

01:43:45

At Lynbrook Baptist Church, we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired

01:43:50

Word of God, inherent in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.

01:44:02

We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.

01:44:18

Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear

01:44:26

God's image. If you live near Lynbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the

01:44:32

Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit lynbrookbaptist .org.

01:44:39

That's l -y -n -brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lynbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.

01:44:51

It is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast of the

01:44:57

Lord's blessing and the knowledge of himself. It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.

01:45:18

Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

01:45:27

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai, in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.

01:45:37

One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio,

01:45:44

Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

01:45:53

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

01:45:59

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.

01:46:05

Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the

01:46:10

Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

01:46:20

Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,

01:46:31

Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

01:46:37

For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

01:46:43

That's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831.

01:46:50

That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, have them

01:46:56

Joe O 'Reilly, Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener, I'm a toy, and Count Gilderoy sent you.

01:47:07

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005. The publishers of the

01:47:12

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the

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Church of Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

01:48:24

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew

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01:48:59

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

01:49:10

Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

01:49:17

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

01:49:34

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.

01:49:42

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

01:49:51

For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

01:49:57

That's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711.

01:50:06

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

01:50:40

This is Brian McLaughlin, President of the SecureComm Group and supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program.

01:50:51

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01:51:10

But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.

01:51:24

Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.

01:51:31

In the film Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt

01:51:36

God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.

01:51:43

I sense that same God -given pleasure when ministering the Word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.

01:51:50

That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a Savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.

01:52:03

I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the

01:52:10

Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com.

01:52:19

That's nhpbc .com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.

01:52:29

That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's Word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.

01:52:56

I'm Pastor Bill Shishko of the Haven, an Orthodox Presbyterian church in Comac, Long Island.

01:53:03

I hold the Iron Sharpens Iron radio program hosted by my long -time friend and brother

01:53:09

Chris Arnzen in the highest esteem and I'm thrilled that you're listening today.

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I'm also delighted that Iron Sharpens Iron is partnering with one of my favorite resources for Reformed Christian literature for decades now,

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01:54:25

Oh, and make sure that you tell them you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And don't forget cvbbs .com

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is now shipping worldwide. I also want to remind our listeners that this program is paid for in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco &

01:54:45

Associates. If you are the victim of a very serious personal injury or a medical malpractice anywhere in the

01:54:58

United States, please call Dan Buttafuoco, my dear long -time friend of many years going back to the early 1990s.

01:55:07

Please call him at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, and providentially,

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Dan just texted me in the middle of reading this plug for him, and I'll tell you why in a second.

01:55:20

1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or you can visit his website 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com. Please tell

01:55:26

Daniel P. Buttafuoco that you heard about his law firm, Buttafuoco & Associates, from Chris Orenson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:55:35

And I have just been sent this text, as I was mentioning, from Dan Buttafuoco, who is not only an attorney but operates the

01:55:44

Historical Bible Society, and he goes from church to church and school to school with a traveling rare Bible and book display, and he gives about a 45 -minute to an hour lecture on how we receive the

01:56:03

Bible in the English language. And he just told me that the Native American Bibles that he has are in Cherokee—so that is providential, since we were discussing the

01:56:16

Cherokee—complete first—also a complete first edition Algonquin, a single page from the

01:56:24

Elliott Bible, priceless if you have the whole thing, because it's the first Bible printed in America.

01:56:32

So thank you for that update, Dan, and please always remember how much

01:56:40

I am in your debt and how much I am grateful to you and to God for you for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:56:50

Well, I want you to close the program with a summary of what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

01:57:03

Well, what I want etched in the hearts and minds of your listeners is the obedience to our

01:57:12

Lord and Savior Jesus, who taught us to pray, Our Father in heaven, hallowed be thy name.

01:57:20

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done. Well, this is a model prayer.

01:57:28

I mean, I think it's also a prayer to be prayed, but it's also a model on how we structure our prayers.

01:57:35

We start by glorifying God and asking God to hallow his name, but we pray for God's kingdom to come.

01:57:42

We pray for the discipling of the nations. And so the various tribes and bands of Native American Indians, they are nations.

01:57:54

They have their own languages, their own cultures, their own histories. They are nations within our borders.

01:58:00

And the Cherokee are one of many. And I would ask people would pray for the discipling of the

01:58:09

Cherokee specifically and for all the tribes of North America, but also pray thy will be done.

01:58:20

You know, God wants us to be obedient. And God's, you know, Jesus said, if you love me, you will keep my commandment.

01:58:27

And very quickly, tell our audience how they can financially help you. Okay. They can go to mtw .org.

01:58:38

They can type in my last name, Smith or Tom Smith, and they will find a page with a picture of my wife and I.

01:58:51

Our account number is 400 -794, and they can give online.

01:58:58

Great. Or if they want to write a check, they can also drop a check in the mail at MTW.

01:59:05

That's Mission to the World. Well, thank you so much for being a fascinating guest today. I want to thank all of our listeners today, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater