August 4, 2022 Show with Rev. Ricky McCarl on “An Anglican’s Critical Observations of the Conversion of Beth Moore to Anglicanism”

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Anybody who has listened to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio long enough knows that I

love to have the opportunity to interview Anglican ministers

when they are biblically sound and faithful to Christ and his word,

and it is my pleasure to do so again today.

Today we have as our guest, a returning guest, Reverend Ricky McCarl.

He is a hospice chaplain and vicar of Good Shepherd Anglican Church of

Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and we're going to be discussing something fairly controversial today.

We're going to be hearing an Anglican's critical observations of the conversion of

renowned Southern Baptist author and public speaker, Beth Moore, to Anglicanism,

and a general assessment of those who convert for erroneous reasons and in name only.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Reverend Ricky McCarl.

Well, hello, how are you?

I'm doing fantastic, brother.

And I'm amazed that whenever I have conversations with

evangelicals of any background, they could be Reformed Baptists such as myself,

they could be Presbyterians, they could just be from the broader

spectrum of evangelicalism, they are in a state of

total mystery when it comes to Anglicanism.

They don't know what to think.

And obviously it's likely because, as you well know, there is a wide spectrum

of ministers and churches and congregational or

congregants, I should say, who are from a wide spectrum of

theology and ideology and practice and so on.

So because of that, tell our listeners about Good Shepherd Anglican Church of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania,

and be as descriptive as you possibly can.

Sure.

Well,

I will

say

that

some

Episcopal

churches,

you know, a

lot of those different churches, it took a lot of

time and effort.

Yes, I am a firm believer in exclusively male headship

in the church and male headship in the home.

And I'm always mystified when I have the occasion to meet from

the Anglican Communion men that I agree with on nearly

every single issue except for perhaps a small handful of

things that are uniquely Anglican.

But as far as the scriptures are concerned, we agree on nearly everything, and I, being

a Reformed Baptist, would really only find objection to the 39 articles

in the area of baptism.

Sure.

But then they will tell me that they are egalitarian as far as leadership in the church, and that just absolutely

blows me away.

I can't understand that.

Yeah, I mean, there's, you know, that's...

I do know...

And by the way, I sometimes, and I know that some of my listeners may be tired of hearing me repeat myself,

I sometimes rib my Anglican friends and say that I actually

believe in all of the 39 articles of religion because it doesn't, or

they, don't actually mention infants in regard to baptism.

It just says children.

So if a child repents and believes, I am more than happy to see that child baptized.

There you go.

I actually had a funny story with the 39 articles.

It was

a Presbyterian PCUSA church are

you with?

And usually I'll just say, you

know, ways of

pronouncing

that.

But I said, well, I'm an Episcopal minister.

And he said, well, I used to love the Episcopal church when they affirmed the 39 articles.

And I said, well, actually, I'm a Reformed Episcopalian, and we do affirm the 39 articles.

And it turned out he knew all about the REC and was a big supporter

of our seminary in the past.

And you never know when you're going to run into a friend.

Yeah, amen.

In fact, one of my dearest friends who is now in heaven, Dr. Robert J. Cameron, he was a

graduate of Reformed Episcopal seminary.

He eventually became an Orthodox Presbyterian pastor, but he was for quite some time a

Reformed Episcopal minister.

And just to confirm a little bit about the Oxford movement, since you mentioned it before, about how

the Reformed Episcopal church denomination founded, or why, in protest to the Oxford movement.

And I know that the Oxford movement shares a lot in common with the Puseyites

and the Tractarians, being very favorable to

nearly everything Roman Catholic with the exception of the primacy of the

papacy and the infallibility of the papacy.

But that's specifically why, if I'm not mistaken, the

Reformed Episcopal church began in protest to that growing

influence of Anglo -Catholic theology and practice into

the Episcopal church.

Am I right?

Yeah, there's actually a good...

Wow, I've got to get a hold of that book.

Yeah.

And just to quickly remind my listeners, one of the reasons why I love

interviewing biblically faithful Anglicans and Episcopalians when I have the opportunity

is that my father's side of the family was

Episcopalian primarily.

My mother was Roman Catholic.

I was raised in the Roman Catholic church.

And my father converted to Catholicism when I was about 17, and most of his

family, his brothers and cousins and so on, remained Episcopalian.

And I remember my Uncle Donald, who passed,

I think, a decade or more ago.

He lived up in Washington State, and he was so disgusted by the

liberalism that had destroyed to a great degree

the Episcopal church that he was contemplating converting to Roman Catholicism.

And I remember I was going on a massive search for biblically faithful

Episcopal parishes as close to him as possible and could not

find one.

And what began in me a burden to

make sure that people were aware of biblically sound, thoroughly Protestant,

biblically faithful, Christ -honoring Episcopal and Anglican churches before they made the leap

into Rome, which I believe is a very sad state indeed.

I would consider it apostasy, but I try to let people aware that there are

biblically faithful Episcopalians and Anglicans out there, if you do enough searching,

because I know that there are people who do love the liturgy and so on.

But I just want to give our listeners your website in case they either live

in Harrisburg or are visiting Harrisburg or if they have friends and family in

Harrisburg, they want to either visit themselves or have their loved ones visit

this church.

Goodshepherdanglican .net, Good Shepherd Anglican.

Well, you, some time ago actually, and we didn't have the opportunity to get you on the

program until today, but some time ago, you wanted to address, as I've already mentioned,

your critical observations of the conversion of renowned Southern Baptist author and public

speaker, Beth Moore, to Anglicanism, and also a general assessment of those who convert

for erroneous reasons in name only.

And if you could, for our listeners who are unfamiliar with Beth Moore, who is she?

Yes, I've been

concerned

about

Beth

Moore

for 20 years.

It's kind of weird to be able to say that for 20 years, but I guess I'm not

a pastor.

But like

I said, I think

what she, per

DNA,

Anglo -Catholic,

I just

generally

have some,

and truly, this isn't about her.

This

is about any

idea that Anglicans don't really have a theology.

You can mail full

baggage with them.

I mean, I know

for an Anglican, not so much for a Reformed Baptist

like yourself, but for an Anglican, that's a thing.

Really?

An ordained Anglican minister, rector?

Yes, there's a couple floating around, but they're a minority for sure.

Are they independent ministers?

Because there are Anglican churches that are not officially connected to any...

No, they would be a part of the ACNA.

I will say Anglican churches that aren't connected with an

Anglican jurisdiction, I don't really know how that works.

But I do know that

there are some independent Episcopal and Anglican churches out there in the

world.

I just don't know.

Well, I know one of the issues that

seriously concerned many conservative evangelicals

over Beth Moore was that she had become full -blown

egalitarian and publicly identified as such, where women

have the full right to be leaders over men and teachers of men in

the church.

What else can you say about Beth Moore that would ring any alarm bells?

My biggest concern with her,

too political here that I'm trying to make, but what

I will say, a number

of people who voted in that election,

the

16,

but that's an accusation she has raised a couple of times in her tweets and her online presence.

I find that a little concerning.

I find

that

rhetoric

troubling, and I see that in other places, not just

with Beth Moore.

I mean, we can talk about David French,

thought leader, Russell Moore for that, any number of

former evangelicals that we can talk about that has leveled that accusation against

conservatives.

Now, what do you see as a danger from Beth Moore coming

into the fold of the ACNA when they already have a

practice of ordination?

Well, it is my understanding that that diocese does not ordain women, that that parish does not ordain

women.

I don't know who the bishop is.

He's egalitarian,

but then you've got those dioceses that do.

If we keep bringing

egalitarian...

Well, we're going to our first break right now, and if anybody has a question for Pastor Ricky

McCarl, please give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live

outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, perhaps.

You are in a congregation where the

primary teachings may be in conflict with my guest's teachings, or you might even be

a minister in that you are beginning a journey of

theological transformation, and you are beginning to question what

the other leaders of that congregation or even denomination...

And you don't want to draw attention to yourself.

You don't want to draw attention to your identity.

I can understand things like that would compel you to remain anonymous, but please, if it's just a general question, give us

your first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

Don't go away.

We are going to be right back, right after these messages, with more of Reverend Ricky

McCarl of Good Shepherd Anglican Church and our topic for

the day, which is, in Anglicans, critical observations of the conversion of

renowned Southern Baptist author and public speaker, Beth Moore, to Anglicanism, and a general

assessment of those who convert for erroneous reasons.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

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And that was the voice of my very dear friend, Reverend Roger Salter,

another Anglican.

He is the rector at St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, a

biblically faithful church strictly adhering to the 39 Articles wholeheartedly to anyone.

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Wednesday, August 10th, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern Time.

We're now back with my guest today, Reverend Ricky McCarl, who is vicar

of Good Shepherd Anglican Church of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and we are discussing an Anglican's critical

observations of the conversion of Southern Baptist author and public speaker Beth Moore

to Anglicanism and a general assessment of those who convert for erroneous reasons

in name only.

Now, there are congregations and even denominations who are

so excited about numeric growth that

they really don't care about who joins their ranks, just as long as they

see more people in their pews and more people putting money in the plate, and perhaps even especially if

it's somebody that's a well -known speaker, that may draw more people into that

congregation or denomination.

Why is it that you are not among those that loves to

see, quote -unquote, conversions for the sake of growth

in the communion where you.

Serve?

Well, I think

I'm really happy with, you know, my small little tiny

parish.

I guess I tend

to

escape something, but because

of the

liturgy that attracts people to the,

you know, but I mean, I don't

think that it would be accurate to say I'm not concerned about growth, people coming

for the right reasons.

Right, right, and I didn't mean to imply that.

You weren't concerned about growth.

There are some people who could care less.

And I have told people, I have told

Roman Catholic people who have begun bouncing around visiting evangelical

churches, I have asked them, why are you visiting evangelical churches?

And I love it when I hear that people are coming under the

conviction of God, that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone, or

they hear, because the ministers there really open up and teach the Bible, where you only hear a

five -minute homily in the Catholic Church.

Those kinds of things I'm happy to hear, but one should never

convert purely, or even predominantly, because of

where a certain, or should I say, how a certain congregation

makes them feel.

Obviously good feelings are a great part of it, to feel welcome and

loved and cared for, that's a good thing, and that's a good element of a

church to be manifesting when they have visitors and so on.

But when that's the only reason, you know, I love this church, I want to join it, because they have a potluck

lunch every second Sunday of the month, or whatever it is.

They have so many programs for the kids, and you know, you could go on and on, but

their concerns have nothing to do with salvific reasons, with

major biblical reasons, with major doctrinal reasons that may even have

eternity attached to them.

Does it concern you that there may be a lot of folks

who love the smells and bells, who love the way they feel when they

go to an Anglican church, and I'm not sure where on the ladder of low versus

high church, maybe you can give us a little more detail on that, you are,

and your congregation, a good shepherd, but there are people who, there are aesthetic reasons

why they change churches or even convert that

really have nothing to do with their soul, and I was wondering if that concerns you, that there is a

phenomenon where people just love the mystique and the religiosity or the feeling of being in

a church that is more highly liturgical.

First off, I love a good potluck.

I am a retentive

man, I do.

I mean, I'm preaching through Revelation right now, and we're just in the beginning

phases of the book,

and one of the things that I highlighted here recently in a sermon was that

love for the 1928 prayer book or the 1662 prayer book isn't enough.

There needs to be, you need

to have a fervent love for Christ and Christ's truth, and

one of the core things about Anglicanism, classical Anglicanism,

without feelings and

emotions in the Gospel,

the Reformed Episcopal Church

gets accused of that a

lot.

I like to tell

people we are

Anglican, the

feelings

that people get, that's just

not enough.

Be practicing Anglicanism, because the whole point of

Anglicanism is by the Apostles.

And I think that's probably my biggest concern here, is that you see a lot of people who practice

Anglicanism because they have preconceived notions.

And I have met individuals who will, even though they believe in the

Gospel, even though they are apparently,

by their thoughts and words and deeds, are

regenerate, they will join themselves with even a

liberal Episcopalian church purely because they love the liturgy.

And one person who has really made that clear, I don't know him personally,

I love his show most of the time, vast majority of the time, but Tucker Carlson on

Fox News, he is known for making fun and

even mocking Episcopalianism, and yet he remains an

Episcopalian because he loves the liturgy.

That was his only reason that he gets it, obviously makes him feel good, makes him feel religious or something.

But first of all, why don't you provide for our listeners the

main tenets that you think must exist within either a

congregation or parish or denomination for it to be rightly called Anglican?

Right, and I think that's a very important question.

I think that speaks to our identity.

And I know people get tired of hearing about the debate about Anglican identity, but I mean

that's something that we need to nail down.

The Episcopalian identity is contingent

upon, and earlier in the program you said something about

the Anglican Communion.

I want to make it clear that the Anglican Church of North America and the Reformed Episcopaly,

the Archbishop of Canterbury recognizes us clergy,

not part of the

Anglican Communion.

And I would go so far as to say, what's the point?

Perhaps I used the wrong phrase when I was speaking of communion.

I did not mean the official Church of England.

Right, so we do have connections with GAFCON, the

Global Anglican Futures Conference, which is

Africa and Asia, the Middle East, who are biblically Orthodox.

Our connection there, but

again, Anglican Communion does not.

I don't think that that's accurately depicting Anglicanism.

That

thing that makes an Anglican an Anglican is the formularies.

The Book of Common Prayer, the Ordinal of 1662, specifically the

1662 Prayer Book, the 39 Articles, those

are the things that make us Anglican.

Those are our patrimony.

Those are the things that the Anglican Reformers handed down to us.

And I think a lot of churches that call themselves Anglican have significantly departed from those

things.

And

the problem we see in liberal Anglicanism,

and even to some extent with Friends, but

I'm going to go there, the formularies, historic documents,

that destabilizes the church.

And so what has

happened in a

special way, we

have a confessional document so we can believe whatever we want.

And they might even use church fathers to justify their position.

They might use Second Vatican

Council theories and ideas for doing things.

I mean, the 1979 Prayer

Book used in most of the Episcopal churches, it's a nightmare.

But I think that has a lot to do with why we are where we are today.

And you mentioned before that there are people who you believe have converted or want to

convert to Anglicanism, thinking that they will be receiving and

experiencing something entirely different than the reality.

I'm sorry, I don't understand how you mean.

Well, I believe you said before, there are people who have

wrong expectations when they convert to Anglicanism.

They're thinking of something in their mind, a picture they got somehow

that is false.

If you could maybe give us a few reasons why that would be.

One of the things I

have is one

of these things, this

idea that

evangelicals

dream up,

how Anglicanism is the

reformed.

But there are a lot of people who think that Anglicanism

is the reformed.

Right, often phrased the via media.

Right, where the via media between Lutheranism

and Anglicanism was formulated.

And so you'd have a wide variety.

You'd have Lutheran Anglicans, high churchmen, and you'd have reformed Anglicans, low churchmen in the Church of

England.

And the Elizabethan settlement

is so wide, you really get, quite

frankly, confusion, more so than a

streamlined...

I think that's

a big part of

the problem.

The late Thomas McKenzie, in his book The Anglican Way,

I think that book misrepresents a lot of what Anglicanism is,

liturgy in

the

night.

I think what those books do is they

muddy the waters a little bit about what actual Anglicanism is.

And so you get people, and I'll get them in the parish, all these preconceived notions

because of all these multiple voices, and they end up being, in time,

dissatisfied with what they are.

It's not what they expected it to be.

They were expecting Roman Catholic light, praying to the saints, and all

of those things.

And then they find out that we don't have a monstrance in the

39 articles, and they find that a disappointment.

By the way, does the Episcopal Church USA, the main line largest denier,

identifying itself as Episcopalian, which I don't know if I could say

with absolute certainty that the majority of it is apostate, but certainly a

significant element of it is, do they still on paper claim to adhere

to the 39 articles?

Because I believe at one time, to be ordained into the Episcopal Church, you

had to pledge some kind of an allegiance to those articles, even

after they had become sort of a relic amongst Episcopalians.

I have

not

ever been

evangelical,

but I can't speak to whether

they still require affirmation to the 39 articles for ordination.

I do know I had to sign a document stating that I affirmed the 39

-formed Episcopal Church, but I can't speak for the Episcopal Church.

What I will say about the Episcopal Church is that they are

orthodox clergy.

I mean, recently, they

refused to receive...

Yes.

In fact, could you pick up on Reverend Love, because we have to go to the midway break right now, but pick up right when we return.

Sure.

Okay, folks, this is a longer than normal break.

Please be patient, and send in your questions to chrisarnson at

gmail .com.

We'll be right back with Ricky McCarl right after these messages from our sponsor.

Attention, all men in ministry leadership.

You're all invited to my friend Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon,

Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville,

Pennsylvania, featuring me, James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, your keynote speaker.

Not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues in ministry over a delicious meal, but you'll also

receive dozens of free brand new books donated by Christian publishers all over the United States

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So if you're a pastor, an elder, a deacon, a parachurch leader, or any other man in ministry leadership,

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Or by visiting IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

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This is James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, hoping to see you Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a

.m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, for Chris Arnson's

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon.

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here, excited to announce that my longtime friend, Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

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Before I return to my guest, Reverend Ricky McCarl of

Good Shepherd Anglican Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, I have a few very important announcements to make.

First of all, if you are as concerned about the

heresies of Joel Osteen, a notorious false teacher

and televangelist, dangerously so, then you might want to

find out more about an event that's going to be held this Saturday at Yankee Stadium in the

Bronx, New York.

If you especially live near the five boroughs of New York City or can

travel there this Saturday, Joel Osteen is going to be speaking,

unfortunately, at Yankee Stadium.

And Soul Fishing Ministries, a really sound and solid, biblically faithful

parachurch ministry connected to Grace Baptist Church

in Queens, New York, they are going to be there as an evangelical

witness and biblical witness with tracts and other

ways of evangelism at this Joel Osteen event this Saturday.

So, if you want to find out more about it, go to soulfishingministries .org,

soulfishingministries .org, and click on events.

You'll have all the information that you need.

Also, folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airways,

I'm urging you, please, go to ironsharpensirenradio .com, click support, then

click, click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion, and if you prefer snail mail,

sending in a physical check to a physical address the old -fashioned way at your local post office, there

will also be a physical address that appears on your screen where you can mail your checks, made

payable to Ironsharpensiren Radio, when you click support at ironsharpensirenradio .com.

If you want to advertise with us, whether it's your church, your parachurch organization, your business,

your private professional practice, a special event you're having, as long as whatever it is

you're promoting is compatible with what I believe, you don't have to believe identically with me, but you need to be promoting something that

is the very least compatible with what I believe, and please, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising

in the subject line.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

Also, folks, I try to remind you every day, please do not cut

into your regular giving that you're accustomed to, to your own local church where you're a member, in

order to give to Ironsharpensiren Radio.

In other words, don't give your own church less money in order to bless us financially.

Please never do that, and also, if you are personally really struggling to survive,

I don't want to be the cause of even more bills stacking up on your kitchen table unpaid,

or having less food on your dinner table, because you've given to Ironsharpensiren Radio when

you're really, really in a bad way financially.

Well, please wait until you are more financially stable and on your feet before you give us a gift.

If those two things are commands of God and scripture, providing for church and family, providing for my radio show,

is obviously not a command.

But, if you love the show and you do have extra money above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, providing for

church and home, you have extra money collecting interest in the bank, and you have extra money for benevolent,

recreational, and trivial purposes, please, if you love the show and don't want us to go off the air,

share some of that money with us.

You go to ironsharpensirenradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

Also, if you are not a member of a biblically faithful church, like Good Shepherd

Anglican Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, no matter where you live on the planet Earth, I may be able to help

you find a church.

I have extensive lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world, and I have helped

people crossing the globe, spanning the globe, in all parts of the

world.

I've helped people find churches, sometimes just a few minutes from where they live.

So, if that is you, if you are unfamiliar with a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful church

near where you live, anywhere on the planet Earth, or if it's somebody that you know and love

who is in that predicament, then send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put, I need

a church in the subject line.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Reverend Ricky McCarl.

He is, as we were saying before, a vicar of Good Shepherd Anglican Church in Harrisburg,

Pennsylvania, and we are discussing an assessment of those who

convert for erroneous reasons and in name only.

Just out of curiosity, when it comes to the very well -known

conversion of Beth Moore from the Southern Baptist Convention to Anglicanism, do you have

any reason to believe that she did not enter into this

new religious experience knowing about what

Anglicanism is about?

There are people who sometimes convert because they know they can get lost somewhere,

or maybe not even convert, but just go from one congregation to another because they know they can

get away with teaching and believing and behaving in the way that they really want to

without being ostracized or disciplined or being, you

know, put under a spotlight.

They kind of can get lost, if you will.

Do you know what the specific situation is with Beth Moore without, obviously,

impugning her with motives that she doesn't have?

Especially when the Southern Baptist Convention is so polluted with the woke movement.

Oh, yeah, I

mean, I would

imagine she was

probably on

that, and

of course against, wokeism in the

church to some controversy.

So, at this point, that's

going to go, but why would someone

convert to conservatism and go to the best

of minds?

So, that is a

curiosity

to me as well.

I don't exactly understand that.

All I can say is that I do know that a number of people leave conservative denominations for the

ACNA thinking that we're going to be theologically stringent,

less, you know, theologically

rigorous.

I tell people

that we allow for the ordination

of women in some diocese.

It's an exception to the rule rather than the rule.

But I think because it happens, people think that that's, you know, where we are.

Somewhat recently, within the past four or five years, the province

put out a study on women's ordination, and the

study said that women's ordination was...

That's an official statement from the church.

So, I'm not really sure I understand.

I don't understand why people think they're going to be able to get away

with it.

We have Ted in Moundville, Alabama, who doesn't really have a question, but he has a

humorous anecdote.

He said, when my wife and I were first attending an Anglican congregation back in Pennsylvania, they had a fish

fry or roast beef dinner or some such fellowship meal on a Saturday evening.

Since we were still new, we were introducing ourselves to people and asking about

them and their church experience.

We asked an older couple sitting across from us, so, are you folks members of St. Paul's?

The husband somewhat curmudgeonly responded, nah, we're Presbyterians.

We just came for the food.

Well, we love Presbyterians

and a

regular...

Yes, so do I.

... in the area.

And Ted

adds

to this email, and I'm assuming he is speaking of your comments

about three.

Streams.

Anglicanism.

He says, your guest is absolutely right about muddying of the waters.

Sometimes I think that the blues legend Muddy Waters should be the patron saint of the Anglican

communion in the U .S.

Yes, well, you know, like I said, I'm preaching through Revelation.

It's warm or cold,

but I'm mindful of the fact that I wish that people were either Anglo -Catholic or Reformed.

Now, you just said you're preaching through Revelation.

I'm assuming that you do, I don't know if it's exclusively, but you do

conduct expository preaching?

Yeah, in the summer months, I usually will preach through a book of the Bible.

Now, I'd like you to give your own

words of warning, of challenge, of encouragement, of challenge to

ministers within the Anglican identity

about, I want you to warn and challenge them about what you think are the greatest

dangers that you see encroaching upon even

the conservative communions.

It's interesting to witness in history how different groups,

denominations, fellowships, it's like a pendulum that goes back and forth.

Like, for instance, the Southern Baptist Convention that we've been speaking about.

They went through a purging in the 1980s where liberals

were removed from positions on faculties and

removed from their pastoral offices, and it was a

cleansing, if you will.

And now, you see, you know, the Southern Baptist Convention has finally

reached a point where it is fairly universally

a conservative and biblically faithful denomination with divisions

among them regarding Calvinism and Arminianism and so forth.

But still, they had finally achieved a reasonable

level of fellowship that had integrity attached,

where there weren't actually apostates in authority in their midst.

And once they come to this place, they've invited the woke movement into

their midst.

It's just mind -boggling to me that this is occurring.

And so, do you have anything to say about your fellow ministers

who identify themselves as Anglican in this regard, of any kind of warning about the things you

see on the horizon or things that you already see occurring?

Well,

I have some...

I

do

believe

that...

Now, earlier in the program, you had begun to explain

the origins of the Reformed Episcopal Church being a response against

Romish beliefs and practices in the

Episcopalian church at large, known as the Oxford

Movement.

And do you see a resurgence of

that aberrant church life and teaching,

Romish in its identity and practice?

Do you see a resurgence of that even among people who are part of a group that actually

has its very founding in leaving that and protesting it?

Well, I will

say, I

don't

think

that's ever gone away.

But

there

are Anglican

down, because there's so much individualism in play there.

I mean, I

don't

think there are

Anglo -Catholics who are too bad decisions away from St.

Peter.

I will say, in the Reformed Episcopal Church, though, we still very much

are Reformed Episcopal clergy to

affirm the Declaration of Principles, which were written in response to

the Oxford Movement.

So whatever high churchmanship you see in the Reformed Episcopal Church is going to be

rooted in our Reformational heritage.

I was just talking with another minister today, or yesterday,

essentially

that's a

departure from Anglicanism.

The Book of Common Prayer is our patrimony, it's our heritage.

Yes, and we do have an anonymous listener who has a question.

Do you have an acceptance of people who may be

Baptists or Presbyterians who are beginning to visit your

congregation and may even join it, even though they have not accepted

Anglicanism as a whole, but they just find you to be the most biblically faithful church within a

reasonable driving distance, they like your preaching, they view you

highly as a shepherd, and they have come to befriend members of the

congregation.

They have found a home there.

Do they need to be Anglican.

To actually become members?

No, actually our

church

organist

is a

bull, she plays the organ beautifully, she has

enriched our worship so much, I'm so thankful for her.

And like I said, in addition to Dave Waterman, we have a number

regularly.

I have, with your past, Johnny Miller,

and other...

It's funny, when I came to Good Shepherd two and a half

years ago, I was looking for ministerium meetings to go to, and I went to

the local Harrisburg ministerium, and it was liberal, UC

Seidman, PCUSA Presbyterians,

and I hated every second of it, and so

I find my most warmest, and that might be

because I grew up, but no, no, we welcome

this in

the triune name of God.

And by the

way, since you brought

up our mutual.

Friend David Waterman a couple of times, I want to give a plug to the website

of the parachurch organization to which he so enthusiastically belongs,

Christian Businessmen's Connection.

Your website is cbmc .com, cbmc .com which stands for

Christian Businessmen's Connection, cbmc .com, and you can find out where

the most local branch of that nationwide organization

can be found.

They have a specific website right here in this area as well, in Pennsylvania, and

you can find out all of that information at cbmc .com.

Let's see, we have another listener.

We have...

I was just looking at it.

Oh, CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York.

Every time I mention Anglicanism or Christianity, I have to mention Episcopalianism to a

friend, even a Christian brother.

The very first response, 99 % of the time is, they're just like Roman Catholics, aren't they?

How do you respond to that frequently uttered phrase, at least in my experience?

Yes, it's interesting because sometimes I will get...

In the past I've known people

from...

One

of the questions

is, do you actually

believe that?

I can see why people think that on the

exterior, because I vest in

a chasuble for...

It tells people we have a reformed theology.

Yeah, I don't think that's an accurate...

But that's

one of the reasons why I come on your show.

I want to...

The

Roman Catholic Church, you're looking at the Roman Catholic Church and

Anglicanism...

Why people

would

think

that...

And we joke

sometimes

about our former presiding bishop

about Romaphobia.

People would, you know...

Those things are just external.

The deeper things...

Our friend in Moundville, Alabama, Ted, just chimed in.

And he, I think, is just correcting...

I just saw it in front of me.

Oh, here it is.

That was Leo VIII who issued that bull.

There you go. Thank you. I appreciate it.

We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who wants to know,

is Jerusalem an orthodox hymn that we should

sing?

I know it has its roots in the Anglican Church in the 20th century, and it

was composed by William Blake, but I don't know anything about Mr. Blake.

And the lyrics seem to be strikingly familiar with the heresy of Anglo

-Israelism, but I.

Don't know if I'm overstepping

on

that.

Sure.

In

fact, when I

was a teenager, I used to.

Love hearing, of all people, Emerson, Lake, and Palmer sing that.

Yes, sure, sure,

yes.

Because I, in addition to being in ministry, I also work as a

funeral

director,

and he is the...

And he

was a

kin to

wear

that hymn

to

that,

though

I'm sure there

are...

Of the legend, but what I will say about that is that it's a legend, a

biblical.

Basis for it in reality.

There's something very hauntingly beautiful.

About hearing a choir sing that.

Sure.

And I will say that the, you know, our Lord is the creator of the universe, and

who's to say he didn't at some time in ancient days walk upon England's mountain

greens?

And in contradiction to the Mormons, he did.

Not walk the grounds of the North American continent.

No, indeed, indeed, yes.

We're going to go to our final break right now.

It's going to be much more brief than the other breaks.

If you have a question, please send it in immediately to chrisarnson at gmail .com because we're rapidly running out of time.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away.

We'll be right back.

With Reverend Ricky

McCarl.

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here,.

Excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading to

Washington D .C. for the G3 Ministries regional conference on the theme, Just Thinking About the Bible.

The conference will be held Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th.

I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson, Josh Weiss, founder of G3 Ministries, and Daryl Bernard

Harrison and Virgil Walker, co -hosts of the Just Thinking podcast.

To register, visit g3min .org, that's g3min .org, and click on events.

Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, D .C.

So join me and Chris Arnson, September 15th through the 17th in Washington, D .C. for the G3

Ministries regional conference.

Register now before they run out of seats at g3min .org, that's g3min .org.

Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.

As a mother, I was looking for a magazine that would include devotionals that I

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

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It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

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I'm Dr.

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At Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use

the eight -volume commentary on the Theology and Ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism,

titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism.

It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and

systematic theology.

Dr. Morecraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking

for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com.

Westminstercommentary .com.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

Heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph

Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you.

Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the Shoals.

Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world.

Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants, as well as radio stations,

theological seminaries, and various programs for unreached people groups.

With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel, it is a blessing to see

how God has used Anchored in Truth in so many different contexts globally, as well as

locally.

To find out more about this vital work worldwide, visit anchoredintruth

.org.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher

McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church

in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into

the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and

beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing

of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net,

that's hopereformedli .net, or

call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa

on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages.

Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ.

In fellowship, play, and together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Lindbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can.

Be.

Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402, that's 516 -599

-9402, or visit Lindbrook Baptist dot org, that's Lindbrook Baptist dot org.

As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he

shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus.

Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs,

baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy,

and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at G -C -B

-C -N -J dot Squarespace dot com.

That's G -C -B -C -N -J dot Squarespace dot com.

Or call them at 908 -996 -7654.

That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer

and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpens Iron financially.

Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can click support.

That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is

by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing is

Daniel P. Patafuco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society.

Their mission?

To foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of God.

They go to various churches, schools and institutions to publicly display a rare

collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by Mr. Patafuco

demonstrating the reliability of scripture.

To advance the cause of the gospel, they created a beautiful, perfect facsimile of the

genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition

1611 King James Bible.

This 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ

going back to Adam and Eve.

This book is complete with gorgeous full size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of

Babel and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims

to the throne of the universe.

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody has ever made it accessible to the public

in a large book form before.

You can have your own copy of this 44 page genealogy book for a donation of $35

or more.

Visit historicalbiblesociety .org.

That's historicalbiblesociety .org.

Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Have you noticed the gap that exists between the Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small

group study?

So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study God's Word in those

smaller settings, well, let's be honest, it leaves a lot to be desired.

It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the Word of God and is

built upon sound doctrine, much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to

study the Bible.

Hi there, my name is Jordan Too and I am the Executive Director of the Baptist Publishing House.

Our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound Bible study

resources.

Our quarterly curriculum is titled The Baptist Expositor and for good reason, we are Baptist

and we exegete the scriptures.

If you want to have a curriculum that teaches your people how to study the Word of God, I invite you, go to our website,

download a free study, baptistpublishinghouse .com.

May God bless you.

And Reverend Ricky McCarl, if you could summarize what you most want etched upon the hearts and

minds of our listeners today before we go off the air.

Yes, I've given some thought to that.

Amen.

And we have time for one more brief question.

I have an Anglican minister friend who will only use

the Book of Common Prayer from the 16th century.

I believe it may be 1552.

He says he refuses to use the 1928 version.

Is there any reason for this?

Yes, there are some Anglicans who believe the latent

forms of Roman Catholicism in the 1928 prayer book.

This is a difficult question for such a short period of time.

The 28th prayer book comes to us from the Episcopal Church of Scotland, the Scottish

Episcopal Church.

It has in

the

Holy Spirit to come and bless the bread and the wine.

It's kind of a

redundancy

so widely used in the

American church.

So I understand a

rational

document.

Well, we are out of time.

I want to make sure that our listeners have your website once again, goodshepherdanglican

.net, goodshepherdanglican .net, and that is the website of Good Shepherd

Anglican Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

I want to thank you so much, Reverend Ricky McCarl, for being such an excellent guest today, a

very informative guest.

I look forward to your return to the program.

Look forward to seeing you.

I hope that you are able to squeeze into your schedule the upcoming Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastors

Luncheon in Loisville, Pennsylvania, in Perry County.

That's Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m.

I'd love to see you and the men from Good Shepherd there in attendance.

And we typically do have several Anglican ministers show up at

these events.

And I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write.

And I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater

Savior than you are a sinner.