Jeff Durbin Responds: Strong and Foul Words

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October 20, 2020

Join us for the new episode of Apologia Radio! Pastor Jeff Durbin and Pastor Luke Pierson respond to the recent controversy surrounding Jeff's message at the Fight, Laugh, Feast Conference in Tennessee. Jeff's message has been seen over 200k times and has started no small stir. He used a word in response to the Woke church that has some wondering if there is a biblical basis for using such a serrated-edge. On this episode we provide an explanation and context.

00:02: Non -rock Cabotus must stop. I don't want to rock the boat.
00:08: I want to sink it. Are you gonna bark all day?
00:18: Delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional You don't chastise pigs for being delusional.
00:25: So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly. Okay, it doesn't really hurt What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men
00:41: The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage
00:48: Going to all the world and make disciples not going to the world make buddies not to make brosives
00:54: Right don't go in the world make homies Disciples, I got a bit of a jiggle
00:59: Nick That's a joke master We cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not
01:33: What's up guys welcome back to another episode of apology a radio I'm Jeff. They call me a ninja.
01:38: That's Luke the bear right there. What up? Welcome back everybody. Good to see everybody Sorry about the long delay in Well, I was having a show it's been a while it has been
01:49: Goodness three weeks, maybe four weeks. I think it has been It's been a while. Yeah, cuz I was we were in Nashville and then the retreat and then last week you were sick
01:59: So yeah, that's right. Yeah So we're back everybody and so glad you all joined us for this episode of apology a radio as you guys can see from the description we are going to be
02:09: Responding today to the questions Surrounding the fight -laugh -feast conference and the conference talk that I was able to give there
02:17: My duty was to to engage in the fight aspect of the fight -laugh -feast conference
02:23: And so I want to welcome everybody to the show today. Thank you all so much for joining us Make sure you guys share this across Dem Internets across your social media platforms
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03:03: Nice job celestial terrestrial celestial Kolob, by the way, sorry if y 'all missed the shirt memo today
03:09: Yeah, actually, I came in and then he came in and we did not plan to be wearing exactly the same
03:16: You're gonna be in rowdy though, but we did Yes But it's highly appropriate though because we're wearing the shirt of the conference and we're talking about what happened to the conference
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04:14: If you guys are unfamiliar with dr. Greg Bonson, you're new to us I mean if you're if you've been with us for a while, you know about dr.
04:20: Greg Bonson And so dr. Greg Bonson is one of my heroes of the faith. I consider him one of the greatest giants of the
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05:13: Countless times to download content to learn from dr. Greg Bonson. The problem is is cmf now
05:21: It's such been such a grand resource an amazing resource for this Treasury that we have of dr. Bonson's lectures
05:26: I mean on everything and it's a seminary in a can sort of a thing I mean it really is it's it's incredible The problem is is going to that website is kind of difficult to navigate at times and then getting the content kind of difficult
05:38: So I've been working with David Bonson who's a friend and someone I really love and greatly admire
05:43: Who was Greg Bonson's son and we've been in plans for a long time to unveil this Thanks.
05:49: Thanks to cmf now .com And to to David Bonson all of dr.
05:56: Greg Bonson's content all of his seminary lectures all of his teaching I mean through books of the Bible exegesis historical theology church history.
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06:27: and I was told by Randy that he's sending us some Is it 35 millimeter 8 millimeter tapes that have never actually been converted of audio?
06:36: Sorry video lectures and things that dr. Bonson did they never converted? So an apology of studios .com you'll be able to go there.
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07:35: Yeah We're gonna for what three years. Yes, Luke and I've been sitting on this for a long time You guys know we've announced things like if something happens, it's gonna be incredible.
07:42: It's gonna be amazing Well, it's finally happened and so right now we're in the process the staging process of building the site in such a way that it's easy to navigate it
07:51: Looks pleasing And it's just gonna bless you. It's just gonna bless you. So praise God for that and I'm just gonna say quickly because there's people having kittens on the
08:02: On the feed here because of the distortion, yeah, we have like a lot of new equipment So, please be patient.
08:08: We're trying to work through some of those bugs. Yes on new lights on all new audio stuff And so yeah, yeah, there's yeah, we got some distortion on Mike's requirement
08:16: If you can ask Marcus maybe to help out with some of that might be good to to help everyone not and Isaac usually does But he's on a way.
08:22: Yes. Yeah, our team is out right now Trying to get content to actually interview some of the mothers with babies that have been saved from death because of end abortion now
08:30: By the way last thing I'll say on this point and abortion now calm go there get signed up with your churches in the room
08:35: Next to me right now. You can't obviously see it. It is piled up with boxes Kits ready to send to local churches
08:43: Each one represents a local church that has signed up that is gonna go out and save babies and preach the gospel
08:48: And that room is just filled with them right now ready to get launched out to these churches. So we're praising God for that I just I'm seeing constantly testimonies from believers who said hey we started with an abortion now
08:58: We got all the free training and resources and look at this picture of this baby. Look at this ultrasound Look at these look at this mother and this baby
09:06: Because of this work and so praise God for the end abortion now calm is where you guys go to get signed up And I did want to share this with everybody
09:13: I know that I I want to talk about what we're what we're doing responding to using strong and foul words
09:18: I did use a strong word. I used a brutal word and it was very purposeful
09:24: My elder here is right next to me in terms of he can give an accounting of my going to the elders and Making sure they understood that this is my plan and my reasoning behind it.
09:34: It was not off the cuff It was not an emotional moment for me in terms of just because of emotion.
09:40: I use this word I had it in my notes many of you guys know that I don't usually use a lot of notes
09:46: I usually have bullet points for my sermon and the things I'm talking about But for this point,
09:52: I actually wrote out word -for -word what I was gonna say and if you watch the video You'll see that I actually was looking down at my paper as I was reading it because I wanted to be super careful
10:00: Cautious I wanted I wanted it to be principled and biblical and I had a reason for saying it and to those that I was saying it to I meant every word and Or the word and the many more that followed it
10:15: It's interesting to me that many people who listen to it hung on that word But they thought everything else that was the least offensive thing.
10:22: Yeah, it's interesting So what I want to do today is just ask of you this for those of you guys that disagree with my choice of word
10:31: At the fight left feast conference. I want to ask that as as a brother or sister in Christ that you just give me a hearing
10:37: Give me a hearing during this show to ask the question. Is Jeff trying to be consistent? Is he does he have a biblical case for this?
10:46: Again it wasn't off the cuff. It wasn't a moment of energy and emotion It was very much planned and principled and I'm gonna just say as we enter into this
10:54: There are and I'm gonna get to this really cool video to bless you But there are there are like two very principled positions from from what
11:00: I can see I mean at least two but I mean two strong ones one would say in terms of the language that we use as believers
11:08: Yes, I recognize that the Bible uses strong denunciations and foul words
11:14: The Bible uses what we would say are curse words foul language dramatic language
11:19: And so people would say I know the Bible says that but I just don't think we need to do that We need to have a good testimony. We just don't need to use those words
11:25: You know, we need to let no own wholesome word proceed from our mouths. I respect that position.
11:30: I understand it I'm matter of fact our fellow elder Pastor James he we had to talk with him as well.
11:37: And he just said, you know I understand that you have a principled position here I understand that none of this would make any sense to Martin Luther in terms of the controversy around the word
11:44: Martin Luther the hero The Reformation used this kind of language often in table talk and and it wouldn't have been shocking to him
11:51: He'd be like, why is everyone fighting over this? But he says, you know, I I just personally couldn't do it and I think there's better ways to do it
11:58: But he understands that our position also is a principled position. So even amongst elders and that's why you have multiple elders
12:03: So there's lots of wisdom. I Dr. White is my teacher my hero my father in the faith in many ways and I respect every word that comes out of his mouth and so when he speaks
12:13: I listen but there still can be disagreements in terms of like Well, I think that we need to also be able to uphold this principle
12:20: There is another principled position a biblically principled position that says when in a fight
12:27: When in a fight when there is a context of spiritual danger or degradation
12:34: The Bible gives us that principle of using the shocking word the foul word to describe
12:41: Exactly the nature of what's going on and the Bible gives us principles and how to respond to the fool
12:47: And so there are principled positions that Christians can disagree on this point over but I think what we can all agree on is that believers are supposed to have sanctified mouths and Hearts and minds and this ought not to be a part of our regular
13:00: Conversation and the best way I can do it to lead into this is just to say this if you would just give me a Hearing on this if there was a guy walking around town
13:09: During peacetime. Okay, there's a guy walking around time town during peacetime And he's always wearing camouflage and combat boots and he's got the face paint on and he's walking around town with a bazooka
13:21: And it's during peacetime and he's always in this getup and he's always walking around like this He goes to Thanksgiving dinner with the bazooka and the face paints
13:29: I think we'd all be right to say to the guy pull him aside and just say hey I need to talk to you about this. You may need to calm down Right, like you don't bring the bazooka in the face paint to Thanksgiving because there's a context we'd all have to say rightly
13:42: I think you need to think about your Wardrobe and what you're bringing to dinner, right?
13:49: You're with family right now and friends No need for the bazooka that might have to happen in California this year at Thanksgiving during Christmas dinner
13:54: Yes, that's right because all the rules are putting on it However, I think all of us would recognize that if we saw the guy in the camouflage the face paint the combat boots in the bazooka behind enemy lines, we would tend to congratulate him on his
14:08: Wardrobe choice and his weapons choice because we all recognize that there's a context
14:15: Walking around like that during peacetime and at the Thanksgiving dinner is a problem Being behind enemy lines and being in the midst of combat is a different situation
14:23: It's a wise weapons choice or a sniper rifle or whatever the case may be so we all recognize that there are
14:29: Context and I just want to put that down as a framework here as we talk about entering this discussion about using a principled position of biblically strong language of denunciation
14:39: That could include foul words, and I I know I keep saying Last word on this but I it's in my mind right now.
14:45: I want to say it It's something we all agree with it's something we all grew up with if you grew up in a Christian Church, you know this
14:51: We all agree with this All of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags now, of course, that's the language that's the
15:02: English translation has used in terms of That word in the Hebrew, but can
15:07: I ask you a question if you know this, you know what I'm talking about What does all of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags really mean?
15:15: Did you ever have a pastor explain that to you ever have a teacher explain it to you? What is filthy rags just sort of the the dirty rags in the in the car repair shop, you know covered in Soot and an oil like that kind of filthy rag
15:29: No Actually filthy rags. We all understand if you've done the exegesis of this passage if you've understood this
15:35: Isaiah is using a principled position a biblical righteous position as a prophet to make sure he gets across the point in a
15:44: Dramatic way your righteousnesses are as filthy rags, which are what used women's menstrual rags
15:54: Okay, now we all understand that can I ask you a question? Is that foul? Not only is it foul and gross and not the kind of conversation you bring into polite
16:05: Thanksgiving dinners like for example, I catch your question Do you think Isaiah was at dinner and and and fellowship with friends and family just using this language off the cuff all the time?
16:14: No, he's using it at a point in a context for a reason and he uses the foul
16:19: Cuz think about this for a second. What are Used women's menstrual garments. They are ceremonially unclean and They are also ready gross.
16:30: And so you have and I can't I'm gonna give you lots of examples today But you have examples in Scripture of when there's a spiritually dangerous issue
16:38: Something's at stake you have the principled biblical position to use the dramatic now here's my concern if as Christians you hear a pastor who has a reputation amongst his family and friends of Trying to guard his mouth and having having had
16:55: God sanctify me in this area in dramatic ways From when I first heard the gospel my mouth and my heart changed when you see a pastor
17:04: Using this kind of language you I think okay you need to ask Questions in terms of is this biblical?
17:12: Is it possible to use this language? Because here's my fear. Here's my fear when we set up a pious
17:20: Standard a standard of piety surrounding language when we set up a standard of language
17:27: That makes the biblical authors look like they're sinning It's your false piety.
17:34: That's wrong Because what I want to say is this if we set up a standard of pious language
17:40: Where we say you can never use the dramatic you can never use the gross. You can never use the shocking
17:45: You can never use that language. It's just un -christian. It's on Christ Like don't do it
17:50: Then you're gonna have a really hard time when you see Paul doing it you see Jesus doing it you see
17:55: Ezekiel doing it You see Isaiah doing it and when you make the biblical authors look like they're sinning for the sake of your false piety
18:02: There's a problem What I want to say is we should all have the principled position that what comes out of our mouths
18:08: Matters it comes from the heart first and foremost But we need to understand that there are contexts in which you use the dramatic language
18:16: And I'll just give you give you a setup on this real fast the same Pastor the same
18:21: Apostle that said let no unwholesome word come from your mouth Also said in Galatians chapter 5
18:30: He said this you were running well verse 7 who hindered you from obeying the truth This persuasion is not from him who calls you a little leaven leavens the whole lump
18:37: I have confidence in the Lord that you will take no other view and the one who is troubling you will bear the penalty whoever
18:42: He is but if I brothers still preach circumcision Why am I still being persecuted in that case the offense of the cross has been removed and here it is
18:51: I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves. That's a very nice English way of putting that's what's he saying
18:58: They're these guys that like to play with knives These Judaizers who really want to they want to circumcise that's their thing.
19:05: They really want to add bring this thing over He says Christ would be of no benefit to you Whosoever of you attempts to be justified by law you fall in grace you choose this he says you've fallen from grace
19:13: It's either Christ or not and he says I I hope these I wish these guys that are you know, they love circumcision
19:19: I wish they'd go ahead and cut themselves off. Now. Can I ask you a question? Is that wholesome talk? Is that the kind of talk you have around Thanksgiving dinner?
19:27: Huh, you think Paul was talking about like that all the time? I don't but when in a fight and people's souls are at stake.
19:34: He says yeah, I hope you chop yourself off Just cut it all off. Is that polite conversation?
19:41: Is that wholesome talk? Well, I think we need to make sure that we have a standard of language that doesn't make the biblical writers look like they're sinners
19:51: Recognizing that there are contexts for this kind of dramatic language now again You may not agree with me and we may end this show today and you still don't agree with me
19:59: And I still love you in Christ. I'm still your brother in Christ You're still my brother or sister in Christ, but that's okay What I think we need to do is ask the question about is there a principled way biblical way of looking at this?
20:09: So yeah, well just a couple of things I actually have a lot of things but just at this point like You mentioned, you know that unwholesome talk and I'm sure you're gonna get into this
20:19: But I've heard a lot of people bring that up. That's Ephesians 429 a lot of people say Oh This you know
20:25: Bible says that no unwholesome talk or the ESV says no corrupting talk. Come on your mouth
20:32: But only such as is good for building up as fits the occasion as fits the occasion
20:38: Which a lot of people are leaving out But I was just gonna say that I mean
20:43: I grew up in a fairly legalistic Baptist Church You know had amazing
20:51: Christian grandparents and parents grew up in a strong Christian home, but was very legalistic So like I Sympathize with people that are upset
21:04: But I obviously disagree with them and Because I grew up thinking, you know, if that man smoking a cigarette he's going to hell that man has a beer
21:12: He's going to hell that man has tattoos. He's going to hell like it. That's how I grew up thinking They're dancing hell hell, you know, like Satan Satan movies bad cards bad, you know, like all that so I've come out of that, you know, and you kind of mentioned false piety and to me the people that are
21:33: Mostly upset about you using that the word that you used to me is modern -day
21:38: Pharisaism because they've they've set a standard Separate from Scripture that these things are wrong.
21:46: These things are sins Even if it's not in Scripture as a sin, right and that's why people are upset
21:53: I think because like it's it's like a sacred cow is like you you said that word and there's in that position.
22:00: There's no Acceptable use or Context to use that word whatsoever, right?
22:07: It's automatically a no -no and It's like well, yeah, I had this discussion with someone last week that I love very much that disagreed but I said, you know, why are you upset that Jeff used that word and it was like well because It you know in my mind when someone uses that word, it's you know, there's no control
22:28: It's something you say on the fly and I was like, what do you think Jeff said it like that? No Well, then what's the problem right and like well, it's an inappropriate
22:35: It's an appropriate use of the word and I was like actually I disagree with that wholeheartedly I think it's a completely appropriate use of that's why
22:42: I use it. It's term, right? I know because term words have meanings and you use it completely appropriately in the context
22:48: It's just because it's that sacred cow. It's on that that Whitewashed tombs list of things you don't do as a
22:57: Christian You know, so I go ahead. No, no, you'd be a good point It's it's something a friend of mine says
23:03: I think if we need to grapple with this and it's actually a good point Yeah, is there a list of dirty words in heaven?
23:10: Hmm, right. Where's is is there a record in heaven of dirty words now now guys understand this
23:16: Please understand what I'm saying this I understand that there are foul words and curse words and believe me if My children walked around with these kinds with a foul mouth or if I did it's confrontation time as discipline time
23:28: It's not allowed my home. And like I said in the message as I as I qualified everything if my children heard me curse
23:36: They'd be shocked. They'd be shocked because I've never cursed at my kids in anger.
23:42: They have never heard it one time I've got a I've got two kids married and grown out of the house with children
23:47: I have grandchildren now and those two older kids will tell you my father has never not once in my entire life
23:53: Not once has he ever cursed in my home out of anger lost his temper lost his lips
23:59: That's because the grace of God because I'm not that man That's the man I actually was before but I praise God that God Allowed my kids to grow up in a home that wasn't like that I didn't have that kind of home and so I praise
24:08: God for that But is there a list of dirty words in heaven? And I reason why I say this is please forgive me here if there is anybody watching right now from the
24:15: UK or listening in The UK, please forgive me know that I'm not gonna use a curse word
24:21: I'm gonna talk about the context of meaning and intention behind words So Luke you'll remember this
24:27: I think well because it was the first couple of years of apologia What do we used to make fun of if men carried around?
24:33: What do we would we make fun still do a fanny pack a fanny pack? We would say if you're a man do not wear a fanny pack as a matter of fact
24:40: I think all fanny packs are from Satan don't wear a fanny pack. I hate fanny packs We still hate fanny packs not even if you put your gun in there
24:46: It still doesn't count don't especially put a gun in a fanny pack it that's immediate Will you get your man card revoked if you put your gun in your fanny pack?
24:54: You might as well have like a squirt gun Yeah, don't do it. Please don't do it. That's evil. And I love him. You were like you like my fanny pack
24:59: No, stop asking me. I don't like it. I'll never will like it. Don't wear it But when we first started
25:05: Luke will remember this when we first started we would do these shows and we would have these little segments We joke about fanny packs and we started getting messages from friends and brothers and sisters in the
25:14: UK Overseas who were saying hey guys just know that while I was playing that in my car I had to quickly grab the knob and turn it down You guys need to understand that fanny
25:25: Pack in our culture. That's a dirty word. You can't say that f -word in our culture
25:31: Don't use the f -word and I said, well, what should we call it? And they said call it a bum bag
25:41: And So I was thinking to myself about this I was like we in America we call it fanny pack
25:47: No, but yeah, you have like a sign over like fanny packs like you're here Yes, it's like it's in a stupid section like fanny packs over here.
25:53: Like, you know, they should be free wherever they're at by the way, but Fanny packs. It's no big deal for us, but it's an f -word
26:01: Over in the UK. You don't say that because it's actually slang for something else. And so they say use bum bag
26:07: Well, the problem is when you say bum in the United States that has certain connotations to it, too Bums are people who are degenerates.
26:15: They don't want to work. They sit out on the side of the road begging for change They don't want to work. They're doing drugs.
26:20: It's a bum So it's a pejorative in our culture to use the word bum is a pejorative So it all has to do with intention, right?
26:27: And me the intention of the heart and the meaning now I'm not saying that somebody should say hey the
26:32: Bible uses pretty strong foul language at times So therefore it's perfectly appropriate to to use it all the time
26:38: Absolutely false if there were people in our church behaving that way or in our homes, we would be confronting them But when in a fight
26:46: But when in a fight, is it ever right to use the same kind of prophetic? Denunciation that you see from the
26:53: Apostle Paul from the Lord Jesus that you see from Ezekiel you see from Isaiah Is it is it is it is it something we should be able to do and I would argue yes
27:01: But that's a principled biblical position again thoughtful with precision. You knew that I meant it
27:08: I wrote it down. I passed it through my elders. It was prayerful. It was something that That was was very well thought out and I meant it to the people
27:19: I was addressing But for those of you guys that are brothers and sisters that are like I wish wasn't ready for it I'm gonna say please forgive me
27:24: If I didn't qualify it enough or explain enough or you weren't ready for it I have no intention of hurting brothers or sisters in Christ who are faithful before the
27:32: Lord So for those of you guys that that that feel like I could have qualified it better or explained it then please accept my apologies
27:38: But for those that I was a directing it to the pimps in the pulpit. I meant it I Meant it and I do not take it back.
27:46: I meant every word of it because it's all true Okay, so just to lighten the mood for a second
27:52: I wanted to show this and I don't want to miss anybody who's watching we have 700 people watching right now I don't want you guys to miss this
27:58: Carmen get ready to switch to my computer here in a moment So just for fun just to sort of bring you into something amazing that happened in our lives
28:07: Luke's been in with this way for a whole the whole year Wade has been a part of blessing my family in this area
28:12: He's off offstage right now Our whole church has many of you guys made this possible in our lives.
28:18: And so I want to say thank you Many of you guys are aware of Augustine. He's finally adopted now. It's all official.
28:23: It's all finished. It's done It's it's God blessed it and I want to say an official Thank you. Once again to everybody who participated and actually helping to pay for his adoption.
28:32: We didn't have the money We didn't expect this you all came through Overnight literally I put up the live stream saying here's what's happening and by like 8 in the morning
28:40: The whole thing was funded up to almost $30 ,000 So praise and glory to God for that, but I wanted to share this with you guys
28:46: At least while I have most of you here. I want to share with you the moment It's kind of sad in a way because it didn't take place in an official courthouse, which
28:53: I would have wanted But it took place in our living room on a zoom call with the judge and a lawyer
28:59: But this was my favorite part of the whole hearing before the adoption This is the part that meant so much to me and this is after they asked me the questions
29:08: Then they asked my wife candy. They asked her the questions. It was a very emotional moment It was a very powerful moment and I wanted to share it with all of you
29:16: You guys will be seeing this in a much bigger form soon Marcus is working on something right now but all praise to God for what he did with Augustine the miracle he performed in his life saving his life from abortion and Delivering to our family and letting it be official now that we've adopted him and one more word on that This is something
29:33: I didn't expect The judge said at the end of the hearing after hearing about his story That she wanted to make a note for the record of the court this that this child is a blessing from God and a miracle
29:44: On the official court record. That's what the judge said. All right, everyone. So here's the moment That'll stay with me forever
29:50: This is when the judge started talking or the the attorney started asking my wife questions.
29:56: Here it is And you heard all of his answers
30:27: So That was for me one of the most touching moments of this whole experience was knowing
30:34: What the Lord did in candy night to get us to a place where we would adopt? Augustine and to have that moment to have that final moment settle on us where we're being asked by the court
30:44: You know, do you want to adopt him officially? It was it was a powerful moment for me It's something I will never ever ever forget
30:51: Let's ready to get into this now. Mm -hmm. All right, so let's bring everybody into the story the conference real fast
30:57: I wasn't going up until I think a month. I don't know. I think it was less than that Like two weeks.
31:04: Yeah, I might have been Yeah So I just got a message from you like Luke was going because he was doing stuff for end abortion now And so we needed to get some additional content to meet with some people and and then
31:14: I get a message from Gabe Can you come to the conference and I said, you know, I love these guys and so they always do stuff for us
31:20: It was like absolutely. I'll do this I'll serve with you guys and then he sent me the the title of the message and it was like Vantillion kill shots like teach people how to fight against some of these monsters right now these dragons we have to slay and it was
31:33: BLM LGBT and it was the abortion issue And of course all that to me is in the context of what we see the woke church embracing right now
31:42: That's like one of the major dragons we have to slay right now and so I was told to take a one -hour talk and and basically
31:50: Undermine all those positions biblically and so it's very difficult to say like oh goodness
31:55: Like what do I even touch? Well, like that's that's almost like no time I'm how do you teach people how?
32:01: To engage and then to actually engage with those three and then try to apply it to the moment It was tough, but I thank
32:07: God and by the way, it's up right now The whole sermon is up at Apologia Studios on YouTube You can watch the entire thing and good news.
32:14: Everybody was concerned with this. Some people said this they said I'm concerned that with the Clip that was shared that was a condensed clip so that it can go out to everyone who's addressed to by the way
32:22: It wasn't for fun It was to make sure it's shareable to get to who we needed to get to to denounce those things
32:29: People were worried about Jeff if people hear you speaking like this using this kind of strong language They're not gonna listen even to the whole sermon, which they need to hear
32:37: Well, you the good news is I think Over it's like something like double
32:42: Yeah the full Surprised by that the full sermon is has been seen double the amount of times as the clip and I think it's been seen by Over 200 ,000 people at this point.
32:51: So praise God for that. But anyways, so conference I was told to deal with the fight issue.
32:57: How do you teach Christians how to fight against these things? and That's why did you ever think you can edge open?
33:04: Oh, I think Setting this up the context is important. This was not a
33:09: Sunday Gathering this was not a worship service. This was a conference
33:16: That was you know, essentially trying to rally the troops and inspire
33:22: Christians to fight So I think that context is important I do I do believe there is a difference right and because I know a lot of people have said
33:30: You know, well, you should never say that from the pulpit. I was like, well, this is a different context So I do think that's important and as far as you know,
33:40: I've heard people saying that you were just trying to be like No, I do find that offensive, yeah
33:49: Because I mean when when Driscoll got in trouble for doing that early on it was in a pulpit and it was kind of Cavalier and kind of off -the -cuff.
33:56: It wasn't it was not Principled and and there was no real context to it.
34:02: It was just tension. Yeah, exactly So I do I just want to throw those out before you get Too far into this.
34:08: Yes, and so I was told to deal with the fight issue we need to talk about the principle of language as we get into this discussion here and Let's look.
34:20: Let me do one. I'll get to that in a moment. I'll play I'm gonna play a clip from dr Sproul explaining this exact point in terms of the
34:26: Apostle Paul just stay with me everyone as we work through a couple things here the principle of language again,
34:32: I want to suggest that if we as Christians set up a standard of pious language and words that we can never use
34:40: Under in any context or anything then we're gonna make the authors of Scripture look very bad
34:46: Right because they're using these kinds of words in particular context So what I want to say is a principled position that says
34:53: I recognize that what comes out of our mouths matters to God We need to have sanctified tongues
34:59: We need to be able to bridle our tongues But there is a principled biblical position in terms of actually using these kind of strong words to denounce.
35:07: Yeah things I mean words that people would say it's like a potty word Well, you know, I'm gonna read to you some stuff in just a moment here.
35:13: So get ready I hope your homeschool homeschool moms are making sure you protect the kids and understanding what's gonna happen here in a moment
35:20: So we need to understand the principle of language Let no unwholesome word come for your mouth is coming from the same guy
35:26: The same guy that says he hopes that these Judaism Judaizing heretics. He hopes that God damns them to hell
35:34: Galatians 1 do you know what a cursed means that that angel from heaven or he comes back let him be accursed
35:40: I mean eternally damned and condemned. So the Apostle Paul says I hope these guys
35:45: I hope God damns them to hell forever And then when you have Galatians chapter 5 he's saying to about the same heretics
35:52: He's saying I hope they cut themselves off is that all wholesome talk or do we need to read the
35:57: Apostle Paul in context to understand the difference between a Christian normative experience
36:03: With your family with your church in regular life and then being in a fight with people who are leading people to hell
36:08: Do we understand the difference is my question? Do we understand how deadly this stuff is now serious it is.
36:14: That's my question So the first thing I'm gonna do is go in terms of like do we have examples in Scripture of This kind of language being used and by the way,
36:22: I'm not gonna in any way exhaust this today It's a short show and so we can't I want to just point you guys to Ezekiel chapter 16
36:28: If you want go listen to my message. I read from Ezekiel 16 I'm just gonna point you to it because Ezekiel 16 is an example of the prophets using a principle a principle position of Righteous speak and language
36:44: Denouncing the harlot wife of God and what he says there is he says that she was this beauty
36:51: Look, this is amazing too because it says in Ezekiel this this vision of the bride. He's God says he beautifies her
36:56: He makes her beautiful. He says he puts a ring in her nose and he makes her glorious looking
37:02: So apparently God is a famous jewelry. He's into yeah Apparently God's a fan of facial piercing to beautify his wife
37:08: Like another thing by the way, that's a great example another example just what you're talking about You'll have a standard of fundamentalism that says look at that girl over there.
37:18: She's got a she's got a nose ring in What a disgusting unbeliever or something like that and it's like you set that up as a standard of righteousness and piety and then you look over in the
37:28: Bible and God's Describing how he beautifies his wife and he says he puts a ring in her nose So who's wrong you or God in terms of beautifying a woman and giving her jewelry and even a facial piercing
37:40: Because it says it in the text. So an example is in Ezekiel when he says he makes this beautiful He makes his bride beautiful.
37:46: He says then you went off and you hoard yourself out To all these surrounding nations and he says but you're different than other harlots.
37:55: You're different than other whores You're a different kind of slut. And what does that mean? Well, he says that these other
38:01: Prostitutes like he says they would get paid for what they do He says but you go and you offer your gifts to everyone else
38:07: No one's even seeking to pay you and you just give it away Like you offer yourself by the side of the road to all these surrounding nations and and no one's asking for it
38:16: And you're just giving yourself away. You are a whore. That's what God That's how God describes his wife.
38:21: And by the way, I'm being mild here read it later Ezekiel 16 in terms of the strong Dramatic graphic language that God uses there, but I'm gonna give you another one
38:31: And this is one I had to give a public apology about Because I didn't use it. I had something repaired to describe the woke church to using
38:38: Ezekiel 23 20 and I didn't have the courage I'm still a man who's a work in progress, but I it's in my notes.
38:47: I can even show you it's in my bag I can show you where it's had after my speech is Ezekiel 23 20
38:53: I was gonna do something based upon that But I didn't have the courage to do it because I thought people were gonna misunderstand and say
38:59: I have a potty mouth Isn't that amazing? I didn't actually give you the punch from Scripture because I was afraid people would say
39:06: I have a potty mouth But Ezekiel 23 20 if you haven't read it This is the same denunciation of the harlot wife in Ezekiel 23 20.
39:14: Here's a very very sanitized English version I think and She lusted after her lovers there.
39:21: This is the harlot wife whose members were like those of donkeys and Whose issue was like that of horses?
39:31: Now again, that's a very Proper English way to put such a dramatic roast of this harlot lovers with members the size of donkeys
39:45: Whose issue or emission is like that of horses? When we say let no unwholesome talk come from your mouth and we say that means never use a dramatic never use the graphic never
39:59: Use the shocking never use that bio word to get across the point I have a question if that's the standard did
40:06: Ezekiel just violate it This inspired prophet of God with the words of the
40:11: Living God. These are holy and pure and good words Did he violate the standard of let no unwholesome talk come from mouth because he just said you're such a whore you look for the guys with the biggest and Who ejaculate like horses?
40:25: Brothers and sisters that's in the text of the Word of God Ezekiel 23 20. So here's the point
40:31: I'm not saying as a minister of the gospel that you as a Christian go and start speaking like that at the dinner table
40:37: Right all the time. It's a principled position when you're in a fight and there is spiritual danger ahead
40:44: You even use the graphic the dramatic to show the person where they're really at give them a visual
40:50: This is what you're like You're you're like this dirty woman who offers herself to everybody and you're not even getting paid for it
40:59: You're such a different kind of prostitutes and you're such a you're so lustful That you're just you he says you're so he's teaching that you're so lustful
41:08: You're so consumed with this sexual immorality that you are like a fiend going to look for lovers with the biggest and who ejaculate like That's it.
41:19: That's the point is that drive the point across with a dramatic visual to shock
41:25: Do you think Israel when they heard Ezekiel talking like that? They were like no get it. They were like, oh, what? What did you say?
41:32: It probably said Ezekiel had a potty mouth I mean if people say well look is he could do a lot of crazy things like he was told to do weird stuff like this guy was told to will marry a
41:40: Prostitute and this person was told to like lay naked and like are we to do those things too? only through special revelation
41:48: Like the only way I would say that you use prophetic symbolism like that is if you have revelation from God you ain't getting today
41:56: So no if a guy tells me God told me to run down the street naked just now because I saw in the Bible I would say no we didn't there is no special revelation coming from God today to tell you to do something like that However, if a guy said yeah,
42:08: I used a very strong principled position and word against an evil like this over here
42:13: I would say did you have a basis for that because there's biblical basis in terms of that kind of language from Scripture How'd you use it?
42:21: Why'd you use it? What were you trying to do was your heart in the right place? Those are the questions that need to be asked.
42:27: Well, I think that's actually I said that jokingly a second ago But Israel clearly didn't repent from their whoring after other gods
42:36: Right. So when Ezekiel said that to him instead of like being cut to the heart to repent of their
42:43: Idolatry, they probably were like Ezekiel. You got a foul mouth and completely ignored
42:49: What he was accusing them of and that's you know, I know that the reason you used the word you did was to Really to wake up the church right, you know, and so it's just so it's doing that I think it's doing that but on the other hand you have
43:04: Christians that are completely ignoring the accusations and they're gonna go on with their woke ways, but they're like having a cow about You using that word and and so it's the same.
43:17: It's the same thing. It's like it's well, it's a good point Yeah, I think what important what you're talking about is one of my concerns
43:23: I want to say praise God to all of you my brothers and sisters who were bothered by this and you
43:31: Immediately went to the public square via social media and you started coming out very strongly
43:36: Very very very powerfully very confidently very boldly against even my use of this word
43:43: All I would do is ask you this would you look through your I don't mean this to be offensive I just want to sort of lovingly challenge you
43:49: Would you look through your thread over the last year and would you ask yourself this question? Did I ever have a moment like this with the woke
43:56: Church? Was I ever this serious in the public square to denounce their? false teaching their division their adopting of pagan principles and philosophies do
44:09: I have a do I have a hit track rest or a record of actually engaging in the public square as Forcefully I did against Jeff Durbin my brother on these other issues or am
44:19: I just going after soft targets? Because brothers and sisters, I'm a soft target. I love you. I want to be humble
44:25: I want to listen to you But you know what? I'm not the enemy the woke Church and that Marxism and all the nonsense they're bringing into the church
44:32: That's the enemy and I am very very glad and I mean this sincerely I do you may not believe this but I mean this
44:38: I'm glad to see that brothers and sisters who did disagree with me on this use of this word are Have the courage and the ability to get in the public square and to fight when it counts
44:49: When they believe it counts all I would say is this I think you need to recite your weapon and put it in the right direction
44:55: Because if the word bothered you enough to get in the public square and start fighting, but the woke
45:01: Church hasn't Something's wrong and that's by the way One of the reasons I use the word right was to wake us up I and I think
45:08: I've only said two things publicly this whole time because I'm too busy to be honest to get involved in Facebook drama, but I One thing
45:19: I said was you know, cuz people I've seen all manner of threads, you know in different groups and stuff
45:26: Upset whatever and you know people just going on for hours and hours and hours and I said look like We should be we should be busy right now doing things that matter
45:37: You know and the analogy I use was you know when Christ Resurrected from the dead was the first thing he did he got to work
45:44: He was gardening like we should be gardening and not standing around Arguing what we should call the fertilizer that Jesus is using in the garden and that's what's happening
45:54: So my my encouragement my admonishment to the church is like quit arguing over the over this one term and get to work and fight against what matters
46:02: Very good. That's right. So another point in terms of just working through the examples here
46:07: We have all of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. That's a foul word. That's a foul thing to think about That is something that's ceremonially unclean and would have been seen as sinful in terms of bringing in and around people
46:21: And so Isaiah uses it to describe our righteousnesses So is there an example of a principled prophetic use of a word in a fight or in a seriously?
46:32: Spiritually concerning issue to use that kind of language I think we know this all the time instinctively But I'll give you another example the
46:38: Apostle Paul and this would this became actually I was surprised it became a point of controversy It was interesting
46:43: I I was trying to explain in in the to qualify and to explain in the in the Message that I gave and the talk that I gave
46:50: I was trying to explain look here's here's I'm gonna use Jesus words about man -made Traditions thus you invalidate the
46:57: Word of God for the sake of your Tradition or whatever so I was trying to use Jesus word Jesus in a fight
47:03: He always compares the Word of God to their stuff Yeah, I was also trying to answer the fool according to their folly the woke church doesn't want to obey scripture and yield to scripture
47:11: They want to obey Marx Engels they want to adopt the
47:16: BLM Marxist principles. They want to go to intersectionality. They want to go to critical race theory They want to destroy the church by making a racist church, right is what they're doing
47:25: They say they're opposed to racism, but critical race theory intersectionality creates racism yeah, and So they want to adopt all that they've abandoned the
47:34: Word of God, right? so what I was saying was and I taught this in the message answer the fool according to their folly step into their position and Show them their feet.
47:42: So I was stepping into their position by using a word they can understand They've adopted worldly principles and they've gone to the world
47:50: So I'm stepping into their world right and saying you've invalidated for sake of your stuff
47:55: Yeah, and so I was using word that they can understand answer the fool according to their folly
48:00: You may not agree with me, but that's what I was trying to do I even taught on it with chairs in the message
48:07: You can watch it But I was surprised because I said well if you're not comfortable with this That you invalidated for the sake of your scuba law
48:14: Yeah, and what I thought we understand as Christians is that wherever whatever you think that word means
48:20: All of us understand as Christians that it was a foul Dirty vile thing that he was using it as a shocker, right?
48:29: He's saying I'm gonna fight with these guys these guys over here who are troubling you these guys He's like look you want to compare resumes
48:34: Philippians 3. He says, all right, I'll do it He says I'm of the tribe of Benjamin. He says I'm circumcised the eighth day as to the law of Pharisee as to zeal
48:40: I persecuted the church. I tried to destroy it sort of a thing He says in Galatians, but in Philippians He says about he says and I want to be found in him not having a righteousness of my own derived from the law
48:50: His enemies are bragging about their stuff. He says look I can beat him with the resume But here's the deal even with my resume and and and with regard to the law
49:00: Blameless that's tongue -in -cheek by the way, because nobody is righteous He's saying like they have nothing to accuse me of he says here's what
49:07: I have all of my stuff Sounds kind of like Isaiah doesn't it filthy rags all of my stuff?
49:14: I count it as I thought we all understood as Christians at least he's using a shocking Dramatic word there a dirty word people are saying well scuba law scuba lawn
49:23: It doesn't really it's not really a it's not really a curse word sort of a thing. Well, I thought that's odd I wasn't really trying to argue for what kind of word
49:31: Specifically it is. Is it a curse word? Does it equate to you know BS sort of a thing? I was just saying we all understand.
49:37: It's a foul dirty thing. He brought into the conversation But then someone sent me this from dr.
49:43: Sproul speaking about this subject of scuba law So Carmen just go ahead and get set here to play this from dr.
49:49: Sproul The gospel secondly from their perspective they had absolutely nothing to lose the
50:01: Apostle Paul used a Crudity in the Bible that no
50:06: English translator up till this day has been bold enough to translate accurately in the vernacular
50:19: Instead they have taken the word of the Apostle on the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit and Translated it with an
50:25: English euphemism and the euphemism that is chosen is the choice of most translators is the word dung
50:34: It's not the word the Apostle used in the text But forget that what he was saying however nice word you want to use
50:48: He said whatever things I've gained in this world. I count as dung I Also thought
50:56: I was amusing there that dr. Sproul is arguing that all these translators sanitize the word by using dung
51:02: But he doesn't even have the courage to say what Paul actually said He's like this is really like a foul word a dirty word.
51:07: He says but dung Well, my point is on that for those that didn't quite understand
51:14: I was getting at when I said scuba I think we all understand that word was a was a not nice word in regular conversation.
51:21: It was a dirty word It was a powerful dramatic word. If you want to argue about how much of a dirty word it was
51:27: I would say go argue with Sproul Because I think he would have words with you. Some people are saying it doesn't it just means garbage
51:33: There's it's it's more dramatic. I heard table scraps. Yeah, exactly So I would say if you have an argument with me,
51:40: I'm not in that fight I didn't mean it and to become a major point of controversy, but if you really want to argue it go have it with dr.
51:46: Sproul So again my principle there was also answer the fool according to their folly step into their position and Show them their feet what
51:55: I was trying to do and speaking to the woke church and to the pimps and the pulpit in a woke church who were destroying the
52:02: Church, they will destroy the gospel and the church of the Living God. That's how serious this is
52:08: I was trying to answer them according to their folly. They want to go into the world. I'll use language. They understand
52:14: I will use the dramatic so they understand and again, it was principled. It was passed through elders.
52:19: It was meditated upon It was written down. It wasn't off the cuff. It was very principled And again, if brothers and sisters you say you just can't talk like that I'm gonna say be careful be careful because the savvy atheist will catch that contradiction.
52:33: They'll say oh, what's that? You say you can't use that language ever. Well, then what's it doing in the Bible? Look at this foul language in the
52:39: Bible, by the way Do you know that I've had people on the street? Bring up these instances to me to talk about how the
52:46: Bible is a dirty book and disgusting They did it in the context of this read Genesis. You want my kids to read
52:52: Genesis? You've got this guy sleeping with his daughters when he gets drunk You've got this guy taking advantage of this person here
52:59: It's gross because the Bible tells you real history tells you what there it tells you what really happened You want me to read
53:04: Ezekiel 23 20 to my kids? I've had atheists use this against me in conflict on the streets and brothers and sisters
53:13: Consistency matters to me. I was taught that by Pastor James Consistency matters as Christians We should care about consistency and I dare you to stand on the streets in Conflict with a group of atheists when they bring up these texts here and you say no
53:29: Christians should never talk like that But they're talking like that. Do you get the point but there's a context to it?
53:35: There's a principled way to do it. Yeah, and I think just quickly on this point You know this person
53:41: I was talking to you last week You know, I said like I said at the beginning to show that that word was the least offensive thing you said intentionally, but You know, they said well,
53:53: I don't have a problem with the other words that Jeff use because you know, they're in the Bible and I and so of course we brought up the discussion on scuba line and and I said well,
54:03: I would disagree I would say that scuba line is a pretty, you know strong word and you know
54:09: So my point is that we came to this Point in the road where they were like, well, I've read a lot of stuff that said otherwise and I said well
54:16: I can show you just as much stuff that Validates my point, right? So the point is we've come to this like There's like this point in the road where it's like can be agreed to disagree.
54:26: I Respect and understand your position where you're coming from Can you respect and understand my position because I can have just as much
54:34: Context and scholarly work to support this but the problem is it because again, it's that sacred cow
54:42: That Christians are just like nope done done. I can't hear I can't hear anything I'll just say I can't listen to that man anymore because and it's like you that that's where I'm like, okay
54:52: Piety might be a problem for you. Yeah, if you come to that point and you're saying no I can't it's you might have a problem with being overly pious.
54:59: It might be an idol for you at that point Yeah, and is it bit is it is it a biblical form of piety because we all believe that piety is an important thing
55:07: Right, but it's a question of is it biblical right? Is it a God honoring piety or is it just personal preferences called righteous?
55:13: Right. So can I just let's make this fairly intimate now for everybody who's listening to us This is where this is where we
55:20: I think put legs on it because we can go all day long We could I don't want to do that though.
55:25: Just belaboring the point of all of the times in Scripture You see the prophets using Mockery mocking
55:32: Was your job as your God on the toilet? Well, that's not nice You know be a little nicer to be all like, you know
55:40: You can do it all day long You can just go scripture after scripture after scripture showing the strong Denunciation the foul language what we would see as a curse word being used but used in a right context and righteously
55:51: But I think Luke we should need to put legs on it because here's one of the things that bother me the most In terms of like I slept well, by the way for all of you guys
55:57: Who were saying nasty things and doing videos just know that when we when I I'm not a perfect man
56:03: But when I put something before the Lord, I say this is for your glory Lord I know that I stand or fall before him and I don't want you to know that I slept so well the last two weeks
56:12: Not even a not even a wink of oh, no I know what I did and why
56:17: I did it and I did it before the Lord now truth Of course, we all know that whatever we do We need to do to the glory of God and when we get before the
56:23: Lord Jesus for reward or lack of reward We'll know whether it was stone. Hey stubble or gold, right?
56:29: I mean, that's that's for the Lord to determine But I I want people to hear this. This is the thing that did concern me
56:35: Luke I know I talked to you about this people a few people said yeah, I know I understand
56:40: Why you did what you did or maybe they said I don't understand but they said I Think you're blowing it out of proportion the woke church
56:48: Oh intersectionality Critical race theory they said Jeff. I think you did. Yeah, I think you're blowing those comments.
56:54: You're blowing it out of proportion And what I thought to myself is well that explains why you weren't prepared for the language
57:01: Yeah, why you didn't understand why I said what I said? Yeah, you don't understand what we're up against because well
57:08: I'll throw it out and you can feel free to add to this. I can tell you right now of new families We have an apology a church just in the last four to five weeks
57:16: I've met with families who were even in leadership at what used to be historically solid reform churches locally
57:22: Who are now with apology a church and they were essentially told It's probably best you leave over what
57:31: Intersectionality critical race theory there are historically solid reform churches in our area that have now gone off the cliff into cultural
57:41: Marxism Intersectionality all this stuff. They've just adopted it and guess what? It's not just on the low key
57:48: It's actually at the pulpit now and they're saying we believe these things about critical race theory
57:54: We believe this about white people and and they're there's inherent sin because of their ancestors like we believe this
58:01: We believe this white people. You're all in sin and need to repent of your white supremacy It's like I look around going what what me me?
58:08: Do you know my background? Do you know where I came from? Do you know where my family came from? Do you know my ancestors and if they had anything to do with the slave trade and you want me to repent of this?
58:19: And also what about my unity with brothers and sisters in Christ? Like you're gonna now all of a sudden create this low -key racism within the church
58:26: It says it's okay to hate white people You're white brothers and sisters and that white and black brothers and sisters can't truly be unified today right now in Christ Because something else must be done.
58:36: Yeah atonement must be made. Well, it's already been made. This is so serious It's so dramatic and we've got families at our church right now that are now becoming members of apology at church
58:46: These people aren't even connected to each other. They're from local churches that are going woke and their leadership
58:52: Have completely lost it and they're losing the gospel Losing their their fix on the gospel historically solidly reformed churches locally
59:01: We've got these families coming to us and people who were leaders in these churches and they were told it's probably best you leave
59:07: Because this is where we're going now. Yeah, and so We also have men that we love
59:15: Yeah We I'm not gonna I'm not going to on this episode name names
59:21: Locally, we have talked about maybe needing to do that in the future, but that's how bad it is
59:26: Yeah, we have people that we know and love who are leading their churches in this area. I see
59:32: I've seen pictures of pastors of reformed churches that were historically solid in A march downtown or wherever they were in Phoenix I've seen multiple pictures of multiple people holding up the communist
59:47: Marxist fist alongside a bunch of other Marxist BLM errs with LGBT flags flying behind them in the march and you've got these solidly reformed pastors historically
59:59: Marching with the Marxist fist up. Yeah in that context. Don't tell me that's biblical justice
01:00:06: You're lying to yourself and you're a pimp because you're prostituting God's Church For this wickedness and so when someone says to me,
01:00:15: I just think you're blowing it out of proportion. Okay? Well, we'll see how much you're blowing it out of proportion when you see the kind of racism that is now
01:00:23: Rampant growing and growing within the Christian churches who are adopting this garbage and We're gonna see also how much
01:00:31: I'm blowing it out of proportion When you see that all of the communism coming into our nation all this stuff that's to destroy lives and kill
01:00:39: People as it always has is allowed into this nation because of the woke
01:00:44: Church that is yielding to this garbage and allowing it into the church and into our nation
01:00:51: You see people historically that were like solid dudes 15 years ago. You're like I recommend that book read that guy Now you've got this guy telling people that that that they're guilty because their ancestors.
01:01:01: Yeah, what? What happens right? What happens to the gospel? What happens to the biblical world forgiveness in them, right?
01:01:09: All of us every white person owns owes at least a million dollars reparations. Is that right me? Do you know my ancestors?
01:01:15: Do you know where my family came from? Do you know do you know where my family or his family came from? Do you know where his his parents his sorry?
01:01:21: His grandfather was a missionary in Africa that built hospitals and saved so many people's lives and souls
01:01:27: To it's a white pastor in black tribes. He's like a hero in Africa in this area now him too
01:01:35: He owes Reparations his family owes reparations. Where does this end brothers and sisters?
01:01:42: This stuff is devastating to the gospel It's going to kill the church. I'm watching it kill churches locally
01:01:47: Yeah, and so when someone tells me you're blowing it out of proportion What I want to say is you need to be awake in a biblical sense and open your eyes
01:01:57: Don't get woke but be awake pay attention Pay attention. This is destroying lives.
01:02:03: It's destroying churches is destroying the gospel is destroying our unity in the faith. I Hate this racist ideology that is snuck in under the radar into the church under we're trying to protect the church against racism
01:02:15: You're creating a racist church. Yeah, you're creating a racist church and you're destroying the unity we have in Jesus Christ I hate the woke gospel.
01:02:23: It is destructive. It is evil. It has no basis in Scripture It is not God's standard of justice.
01:02:28: You want to talk about justice? Let's go to the law of God. Let's do that You know the one people won't do they won't go to the law of God They ain't going to the law of God to say what are
01:02:36: God's standards of justice? How do you stop police brutality? How do you stop this kind of injustices in society?
01:02:43: What I want to say as the Puritan that I am is well Let's go to that law of God and see what it says. How about we do that?
01:02:48: Let's actually employ the general equity of these laws of justice that God's already stipulated. Let's put them in society today
01:02:53: Sound good. Wokey Wokerton was and Wasn't Nate said
01:02:59: Wookiee Wookiee McWoke face and you know what the you know what these these these pseudo
01:03:05: Marxist pimps will say They'll be like well, no, we're not we know we're not under law, but we want justice what justice what you want you want the you want them
01:03:18: Dialectical materialism that drives BLM Marxism to be answering the question about what's just in society
01:03:24: What does matter matter that was my question in the talk? Why does matter matter? It's a materialist perspective.
01:03:29: Why does matter matter? What's justice in that perspective? You aren't speaking the same language because when
01:03:34: Luke and I as pastors say we need to establish justice in this world We're saying first the world needs to be saved through Jesus Christ And then
01:03:42: God's law needs to be looked at as to what is just those Marxists aren't having that conversation
01:03:47: There's not going. What's that book say? What's that book say about justice? They're not doing that They're employing their unbelieving humanistic secular perspective to the issue of justice.
01:03:57: And what are you getting pain? Pain, that's what you're looking forward to. I think the point
01:04:03: I realized How bad things were here even locally. I think it was
01:04:09: Father's Day. I remember cuz I made a long post on Father's Day and Which I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but I think it's awfully convenient that this
01:04:22: BLM stuff exploded under Well, no churches were meeting during COVID but because it just kind of like went under the radar, you know
01:04:30: I'm like all of a sudden there's these protests and there's reformed Christians at these
01:04:36: Marches saying crazy something like what what just happened, right? Like we're Wasn't like that three months ago or six months ago.
01:04:43: So I think the point for me was it, you know I think you know, I'm talking with there's a family that we know very well. That's Solid reformed family white family.
01:04:51: They've adopted two black children. They were at the BLM rally here in Phoenix and Their son was holding a sign that said no lives matter until black lives matter
01:05:01: And that's when I realized oh my goodness We're in trouble these are people that I know and love and I love and are solidly reformed people and I was like well
01:05:09: One that's a lie from the pit of hell, right one, but two I was like, we're yeah, this is bad.
01:05:14: It's bad So that's that's that was the point. I realized that Then this is a really really awful.
01:05:20: So it's pastors. Yeah, we see this at a local level. Oh, yeah We're ministering in this context. Yeah, we've seen friends now fall off the cliff completely and we're seeing it on a national level
01:05:30: Yes, and we're seeing churches on a national level and you're seeing major publications or organizations that used to be historically solid
01:05:37: Adopting this and they're going that full way now. Oh, yeah, right and And so it's total destruction
01:05:43: Like Marxism when Marxism gets into a culture the first thing it needs to get rid of is the Christian Church I mean you you see this in history
01:05:50: Was it Engels Engels that was talking about it was Marx and Engels? I think Engels around the time of Spurgeon was like, oh, yeah, if I can get rid of any one person
01:05:58: It'd be this guy. Yeah, you got to get rid of the Christian influence in the culture Exactly. And so that's what happens when it comes into a culture
01:06:04: It's got a first destroy the church One of the ways to destroy the church is to make the church think that what you're saying is, right?
01:06:10: Yeah, and they start saying it to like you can kill the church you can crush us poison us gas us
01:06:18: Whip us crucify us kill us to get rid of it or get rid of us. You never will by the way
01:06:24: Or you can actually get into the church infiltrate it and make her all of a sudden stop listening to the voice of the bridegroom
01:06:30: And start saying what Marx said Right, like have her start talking like Marx rather than Jesus It's one of the ways you can destroy the church in a culture
01:06:39: You can do it like that. You can make her start reciting Marx instead of Jesus So I want to say a final word here and we're actually we're gonna play the video with we're talking the way out
01:06:48: I think we're good I think we're good. That's like that's a 10 -minute one. Anyways, it's long. I was just gonna say one more thing
01:06:54: I mentioned this I think was the last show we did actually because it was right before Nashville we had Gabon when he had just got arrested keep in mind that's also was in the
01:07:05: Something that Toby had said in that emergency show, it's perfect. He said the gospel the point of the purpose of the gospel is not to coddle the culture but to confront it and That's what we're seeing
01:07:19: Is the the gospel is coddling the culture and and so it's time for pastors and it's time for Christians and Christ's bride to start confronting it.
01:07:32: That's right. That's right And it's interesting to add one of these comments here from Greg says I've appreciated Jeff But have lost a lot of respect after hearing this totally unnecessary and opens the door to any language
01:07:41: Please don't try to excuse it with every other social issue. It shows that Greg you're not listening You didn't listen
01:07:46: Anybody who listened to this heard me actually address what you said So you must have just popped in or you haven't or you just have you just checked out
01:07:54: You haven't been listening because I refuted what you said in this show and it just goes to show sometimes as Christians We're not really willing to be humble enough to listen to the other side, right?
01:08:04: Right, because what I because I'll use this I'll use your argument right now. I just will end the show with this Greg I'm gonna use your argument right now with Ezekiel and Isaiah Ezekiel.
01:08:12: You can't talk like that You can't you can't talk about horses members and ejaculation an issue like horses or donkeys you can't do that You can't call
01:08:21: Israel a whore You can't say she's a hooker that like, you know spreads her legs to everybody and like offers herself because this is gonna open up the it's gonna open up the highway for anyone just Start talking like that all the time or Isaiah, you know
01:08:32: You used a filthy word and something ceremonial unclean and Paul, you know You said scuba law and that's just that's just dirty.
01:08:39: You're gonna open up the path to anybody talking like that I think it's best you don't use it No, I'm fine with how the writers of Scripture spoke and I'm fine fine with the context in which they did it
01:08:48: And it's it's the situations like this that I think show a very very important need for understanding categories
01:08:58: Categories. Mm -hmm, right? Unwholesome talk this is normative experience as a Christian versus being in a fight and somebody's about to be spiritually slaughtered
01:09:08: And so you have to say the hard thing to them in that context and so I would say in issues like this
01:09:13: We need to make sure we examine ourselves be humble enough to listen to one another and I want to say finally to those
01:09:19: Brothers and sisters in Christ whom I love so much my brethren that I care so deeply about if you were offended by what
01:09:28: I said and I could have in any way as a pastor been better at Qualifying it or explaining it
01:09:33: Then I would want to ask for your forgiveness and say I want to make sure that I communicate in such a way that People understand exactly what
01:09:39: I'm doing and I want to always get better as a minister of the gospel So if I offended you unnecessarily,
01:09:44: I truly apologize however to those that I said it to I Meant it.
01:09:52: I Meant every word and I I won't take it back And if you were to ask me what I do it exactly the same way my answer is before God Yes, I would yes
01:10:02: I would because I I knew what the problem was I knew what I was doing and if you ever hear me speaking like that Just know
01:10:08: I've thought about it. There was a reason for it and I mean it You need to understand.
01:10:14: I think that perspective so God bless you all anything you want to add No, I think this is great. Hopefully helpful
01:10:20: Hopefully helps to sort of contextualize for everybody and give a given understanding a background Thank you all so much for loving us and blessing us.
01:10:28: I encourage everybody go to end abortion now calm go get signed up Have you looked at the room over there?
01:10:34: Yeah, I just saw that we had we I know there was 15 churches just from the conference
01:10:39: Yeah, just from the just ready to just say I mean we were ready to fight like some of these churches guys one church
01:10:45: Some of these churches just one church has saved like over 200 like some churches like saving 300
01:10:51: So when you see like 15 boxes getting ready to leave here, that's 15 more churches. How many more hundreds of children?
01:10:58: I don't know. It's incredible. So like I always look at that and I'm like man, praise God What a humbling thing to be a part of this
01:11:04: So go to end abortion now calm get signed up get all the free training all the free resources We don't want anything from you and get get started to bringing the gospel against the culture of death.