Mormonism with Haps Part 2

Reformed Ex-mormon

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September 10, 2022

Coffee and The New Covenant Part 3 God's Law

00:02: Hi there, welcome to Reformed Ex -Mormon. I am Pastor Braden. It's a blessing to be here today with a brother in Christ, a sweet dear friend of mine,
00:12: Haps Addison today. This is going to be part two of a video series that we're starting to help with a lesson that Haps is teaching on just different cults and world religions and comparing that to Christianity and whatnot.
00:25: It's a blessing to have Haps here. I'll turn it over to Haps and have him explain what this is for, the purpose of it and so on and so forth.
00:32: Haps, please go ahead. Well, I am Pastor Happy with All Branch Ministries and this is one of my closest friends right here.
00:41: I'm very excited that you can help me out with this. You have one of my favorite stories of all time, but I don't want to get into that just yet.
00:54: I have a few questions. I don't want to jump ahead, but I got a few questions.
01:02: I wanted to ask you, why do they call you the
01:07: Reformed Ex -Mormon? That's the name of your YouTube channel. What is your history with the
01:13: LDS Church and how did the Lord lead you out of that cult, by the way?
01:20: The start on the YouTube channel name was a name that I came up with while thinking.
01:26: I was like, man, I really want to do some stuff that's focused on Christianity as well as some Mormon stuff and some evangelism stuff and what could work.
01:35: I'm a Reformed Baptist and I would hold to that with my dying breath as of right now.
01:42: It's like, man, I'm Reformed and I'm an Ex -Mormon. I was like, oh, Reformed Ex -Mormon. That almost rhymes.
01:48: It sounds good. We'll put it together. I praise God that the latter half of that name is true, that I am an
01:55: Ex -Mormon. More importantly, that I'm an ex in the sense that I'm now saved by grace and in Christ. There's a lot of ex -Mormons out there, but there's not a lot of ex -Mormons that are now saved and are
02:06: Christian. To talk about my history with the
02:12: Mormon Church, is that the next portion of that question that you said? Yes. My history with the
02:17: LDS is that I was raised LDS for 19 years. In that time, I was active, being a good
02:26: LDS person. I always like to tell people that when you think of the picture of what a
02:33: Mormon looks like, that was me. That was absolutely the definition of who I was.
02:38: As Mormon -y of a Mormon that you can get, that was Braden Patterson. I graduated from seminary with all four years.
02:54: I went and did double doses of their seminary that they had. I memorized all their 100 scripture masteries.
02:59: The LDS, when I say these things, they would know what I'm talking about. I was getting ready to go on and serve my mission.
03:06: In the process of getting ready to serve my mission, to put in my papers and whatnot, getting medical records, immunization forms, dental records, and all that kind of stuff that they have to do before they send somebody out on a mission.
03:19: I met this lovely young lady who just now happens to be my wife.
03:25: This young, lovely, very wise and smart, beautiful woman. I started dating her.
03:33: I was very, very encouraged by my family to baptize her and her whole family. If I didn't do that, she wouldn't wait for me for those two years while I was gone on my mission.
03:44: In my mind, I was very, very well equipped and prepared to talk about anything regarding LDS theology, anything regarding Joseph Smith, anything regarding Brigham Young, anything regarding the temple, all those kind of things.
03:57: I was very, very well equipped. As I said, I graduated from that seminary.
04:03: I would even consider myself at that time a Mormon apologist. I loved engaging with supposed
04:09: Christians. I loved engaging with other people of different faiths. I was very active in that way.
04:15: I thought to myself, well, I'll be able to baptize her and her whole family like that. I'll have her baptized by the end of the week and her family baptized by the end of the month.
04:24: It'll be easy. It was truly like that because in my mind, in my burning of the bosom,
04:30: I had a testimony and knew what the LDS church taught was true. What happened, what took place through this is that I dated her for about a month and I gave her a
04:41: Book of Mormon. The next night, I talked with her in her driveway for two hours. And in the process of this conversation,
04:48: I covered everything that you could cover with regarding Mormonism, that being of the need of the reasons of prophets, the plan of salvation, the need of temples, the need of the atonement, all this kind of language that the
05:01: LDS use. And I talked to her about the importance of being baptized, being married in a temple, all those kind of things.
05:08: And at the end of that conversation, she sat very, very quietly and listened to everything
05:13: I said without interrupting me, without interjecting, let me get it all out. And I thought to myself,
05:19: I could not have said that any better than what I just said, that what I just said is true and man, let's go down to the river right now and get baptized.
05:28: I said, I was thinking. And so she looked over at me after I got done.
05:34: And I had this feeling inside my chest after I bore my testimony. And she looked at me and she said,
05:39: Braden, that's stupid and not in the Bible. And it hit me like that.
05:45: Yeah, it hit me like that. It shut down what I just said from going from true to what I just said was absolute idiocy.
05:52: And I have no reason for what I believe in. I have all it was was a feeling before.
05:58: Now, this feeling is went from legitimate to not true, not true, a feeling of deceit.
06:04: Essentially, I go home that night. I open up the Bible talking, thinking about all the things
06:10: I just told her in that two hour conversation. Joseph Smith's plan of salvation, multiple gods, all this kind of stuff that's very central to the
06:17: LDS doctrine. Eight years later today, I have yet to find one thing that I told her in its fullness in that night of that two hour conversation in the
06:26: Bible. And so from that, there was a genuine care and concern of wanting to know the one and only true
06:33: God, wanting to know who Jesus Christ was, wanting to know how to have salvation.
06:39: So I don't want to say I was saved that night. But about a month later, I had the opportunity to have a wonderful Christian and a
06:45: Bible study that the Bible study was called Leaving Mormonism for Christ. And in this Bible study, a gentleman named
06:52: Nathan and his wife, Lindsay. But Nathan sat down with me and we were doing this little role playing thing where I was to pretend to be the
07:00: Mormon. He was pretending to be the Christian. And we're going to have an evangelism conversation for the rest of the people to watch.
07:06: And he opens up John 1. One in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. And immediately
07:12: I was just my attention. We couldn't leave that verse. We couldn't leave that conversation because I was so in awe that Jesus Christ is
07:22: God. And he was the one that paid my price upon a cross and that that that I have salvation only in what he has done for me.
07:29: And so that from there, after that, just was discipled by very godly men, including
07:37: Matt Slick from Karm .org, including Paul Thompson from Eastside Baptist Church and some other other great and mighty men and women of the faith that have helped me through some very difficult stuff.
07:50: And I'm still being discipled very much so. But, yeah, that was that was eight years ago. That's my history with the
07:56: LDS church is that, you know, it was very heavily in it and and very, very strong ties in it to this is false and this is stupid.
08:06: And now I know Jesus Christ. That's that's just so often, you know, I got it's just so good.
08:13: You know, let me ask you how involved, how far back was your your family involved in?
08:22: And I mean, you told me that you were you, you were a descendant of Brigham Young.
08:29: And so your family must have been Mormons for generations, you know, generation. Yeah, yeah.
08:35: Yeah. My family is definitely steeped in the Mormon generation, Mormon history and genealogy for sure.
08:42: And and let me tell you had let me just ask. So you had a great childhood.
08:48: Oh, yeah. Loving parents, loving brothers, loving family members. Yep. And and and I just want to get this straight.
08:57: You you left everything to follow Christ. Absolutely.
09:04: Yep. And and how did that affect your family? You know, I think because we have to think about it from their shoes, right?
09:14: And no, no, no, no. That's what I am without a without a without a bias as much as we possibly can. And I will be very clear and say that, like you said,
09:22: I my family, I love them to death. They have not done anything wrong in that sense. That's right. And so being getting honor to my mother and my father as much as I can as a
09:31: Christian now. Right. Yeah. You think about it in their shoes, that one of their main focuses and doctrines of the
09:38: LDS church is families can be together forever. That's that's kind of their foundational doctrinal statement that you will hear every single missionary ever say.
09:47: In fact, if you ask a missionary what a what their testimony is, oftentimes nine out of tens, they're going to say,
09:52: I know that families can be together forever. And the whole idea of that is, is that that heaven isn't really heaven without my family there with me.
10:02: Heaven isn't heaven. I mean, what is the name? I wasn't Nelson.
10:07: It was Elder Holland of the LDS church talks about how heaven wouldn't be heaven without his wife. And that's that's not a direct quote, but that that's essentially what he talks about.
10:17: And so the idea is, is that that heaven isn't heaven without your family. And so in essence, what
10:23: I have done when I left the LDS church and I have foregone that possibility of being in the celestial kingdom with them is
10:31: I have jeopardized that foundational doctrine for them. Families can be together forever because I'm part of their family.
10:38: That's not going to happen now. And so there's a little bit of sadness there.
10:44: There is. And and part of part of any Christian's response.
10:50: And this is something I think that would help the person that listens to this is that the Christian's response is that I hope that I hope you're in heaven with me.
10:59: I hope that my wife is in heaven with me. I hope my neighbors are in heaven with me. I hope these things. But I only care about being with Jesus.
11:06: At the end of the day, Jesus is going to right every wrong. He's going to be the object of my work.
11:11: I'm going to be the the the image of the invisible. He is going to be there with me.
11:16: And that's all I care about. That's all I care about. I want you to be there, but I don't want you to be there for my dissatisfaction.
11:22: I want you to be there because Christ is worthy for you to worship him there. And so that's the fundamental difference between between the view of heaven that the
11:32: Christians hold versus the view of heaven at the LDS hold. Is that LDS? It's very centered upon how
11:37: I feel and what I want. Man related families can be together forever versus the Christian is I want
11:42: Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. That's all I want. That's all I all I need. And I want to worship him forever and eternity.
11:51: Yeah, that's that's just awesome. You know, I just love how the Lord does that.
11:56: You know that. And, you know, moving on. Yeah, I just think that's so powerful right there.
12:04: And, you know, so how do we how do we know? I mean, I mean, they say they're
12:12: Christians. I mean, the Latter Day Saints of Jesus Christ, right?
12:17: Yeah, they say they're Christians. What what's the distinguishing distinguishing differences between the
12:26: LDS church and the Christian orthodoxy? Yeah, I love it.
12:33: That's that's a really that that is a loaded question there. I would first say that we also have to realize where the
12:39: LDS are coming from when they claim that they are Christian. Not only do they think they're Christian, but they think that they're the only true church.
12:46: And so they would say all other Christian faiths and denominations, like I said, last of our last video, they believe that all their professing creeds are an abomination in the eyes of the
12:55: Lord. And so they want the title Christian, but at the same time, they want to disfellowship
13:02: Christianity as being a part of them. Do you see what I'm saying? So there's this this pushing away and pulling close at the same time.
13:09: And so breaking down to you in the title of their their their church name, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
13:17: Latter Day, it's a focus on eschatology, as we've looked at a focus on this dispensational view that they held to.
13:23: That's far outside of orthodoxy, not even close to what dispensationalism is within Christianity. But the issue with this is that they fundamentally teach that 2000 years ago that the church fell away and that at the death of the apostles, that there had been no true church in that time, which you'd have a have a plethora of Scripture, one being
13:45: Matthew 16, 18, that upon this rock, I will build my church in the gates of Haiti shall not prevail. Christ promises that you would also have
13:54: Jude four. I believe it is that says that this was once given for all. There was no falling away that that was a promise of God to us that the
14:06: Christian, the Christian church will not fall away after his ascension. And so they fundamentally teach that the church fell away.
14:13: So any any belief that you and I have in Christianity is false. It's abomination in the Lord. And therefore, in the eighteen hundreds,
14:20: Joseph Smith restored those things. And so then we need to really look and see what the the accusation or the claims are that come from this restoration of Joseph Smith.
14:32: And so I would remind the listener that Galatians 1, 8, 9, for if we or an angel from heaven come on to you and preach the gospel, contrary to the one that you have yet received, let him be a curse.
14:42: And if if another man comes to you and preach the gospel other than the one that you've yet received, let him be accursed.
14:49: And so what Paul has done there is he's really he's he's listed out all possibilities of individuals coming and preaching to you a gospel.
14:56: And he's saying that if they're that you need to compare the gospel that you have already received, that I that Paul knows is inspired.
15:04: If they were preaching a false gospel to you, which in that context of that text would be Judaize, you're saying that you need to be circumcised.
15:11: Right. If they're coming and preaching an additional amount of works or additional things that are needed to that gospel, it's actually a false gospel.
15:18: It's not really another gospel. And it's to be accursed. And so when we look at the claims of Joseph Smith about what he taught and we talked about it last week, according to the gospel on their website, according to the articles of faith.
15:32: One of the most obvious things that we would see that's different between Christianity and that of LDS is that they are they believe that there's a requirement for works.
15:41: They it's not just works based salvation. They believe it involves faith to be fair to them.
15:47: But it is absolutely faith or works included in that salvation that they believe in an exaltation.
15:55: And the issue with this and I and you are very well aware of this, but just to remind the listener that here's this
16:03: Romans three. There's a plethora of text that we can go to to talk about this.
16:09: But Romans Romans three verse twenty eight.
16:14: In fact, just the whole text of Romans three is beautiful, but specifically verse twenty eight. It says for we maintain that a man is justified apart from works of the law.
16:25: Romans four. So chapter four, just here right after twenty eight there. But chapter four verse two, it says for if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about for God.
16:37: For what does the scripture say? And Abraham believed God and was reckoned to his righteousness. Now, to the one who works his wage, it is not reckoned in his favor, but what is due.
16:48: But to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.
16:54: And then it goes through David as well as the this this that Abraham was justified and reckoned righteousness even before circumcision.
17:02: You would see this repeated throughout multitude of chapters here in the book of Romans. But when we look at the seriousness of this claim of, well, they'll go they'll go to James chapter two and say, well, look, faith without works is dead.
17:18: So, of course, you have to have works. Well, we can't just take one verse and twist it to make it what we want it to be.
17:24: Galatians chapter two, verse 16, says, nevertheless, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but through faith in Christ Jesus.
17:37: Even we believed in Christ that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law.
17:45: Since by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. And then we would also see here in verse 21,
17:50: I do not know if I the grace of God for righteousness comes through the law and Christ died needlessly.
17:57: And so this this goes for anybody that claims that their work save them in any degree or in any fashion.
18:02: And I believe that that's what we would see in Matthew, chapter seven, when many will come to him and say, Lord, Lord, have
18:07: I not done X, Y and Z things, cast out demons, prophesied and done all these many mighty miracles in your name.
18:13: And Christ says, depart from me, you workers of iniquity, you doers of lawlessness.
18:20: The issue of this is that this that that those works to you and I look good.
18:25: Demon casting out great prophesying sounds great. Mighty miracles sounds great.
18:31: Those things look like a good work to you and I. The issue is that you're boasting about it before the Lord to be justified.
18:36: And therefore, their works of iniquity doesn't matter what the result of them was. It doesn't matter what took place. Those things are works of iniquity.
18:45: And so when we look at all these different scriptures, that's the conclusion that we have to come to. Yeah, you know what
18:53: I find absolutely fascinating is, you know, me. I love church history. I mean,
18:58: I study it, you know, and when you look back in the eighteen hundreds that what was called the restoration movement where, you know, we got to get rid of the creeds and the confessions and the catechisms and what the church has been holding to this whole time.
19:13: And we got to start something new. And then all these cults started out of nowhere and they just started.
19:20: There's something wrong with the church. We got the truth and all the denominations that have spawned out of these these little groups and stuff.
19:31: And what I found fascinating was Mormonism. I really got to say
19:37: Mormonism had more things, more cults and so -called denominations or movements and everything have really a blossomed out of it.
19:51: You know, I mean, I mean, cults do really good. They don't do bad. You know, they actually do really good.
19:59: You know, I mean, not good as in, you know. But no, I know what you mean. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, and the reason why they get so big is what they have to tithe, like 23 % of their earnings or something.
20:12: Yeah. Yeah. They have to do 10 % of their pre -taxed income, which is a hefty amount when you consider it.
20:21: And so, yeah, they and they have to do that in order to have access to the temple, which they believe that if you are temple worthy, you're worthy of heaven.
20:29: And if you're not worthy of a temple recommend, you are not worthy of the celestial kingdom. And so now it's definitely a pay to play.
20:36: Kind of. It's like paying into heaven. Wow. Let me also ask you this. So there are some claims out there, you know, which
20:44: I already know that's true, but I'm just going along. There's some claims out there that, well, you know,
20:52: I hear that, you know, when it comes to most cults, they all start. There's usually a dress code.
21:00: Now, is it true that they have like a magic underwear? I love it.
21:09: Yeah. Essentially, that is what it is without being apologetic towards them. They wear what they call garments.
21:16: They have symbols on it. And it's what the masons were teaching when
21:22: Joseph Smith got those revelations. It has a square compass. And they wear these all the time.
21:31: All the time. Yep. All the time. Yep. In order to be temple worthy, you have to be wearing them all the time.
21:38: And they say it's an outward showing of an inward promise. That's what they that's what they call it.
21:43: So essentially like how you and I wear a wedding ring to show the world of a covenant we've made with our wife before God, a symbol of it.
21:52: That's essentially what they're trying to do with garments. The issue with it is that when you look at this and you look in Genesis, they talk about how the figs is what they cover themselves in the
22:07: Garden of Eden. And so when somebody that's LDS is buried, guess what they're covered with is an apron that looks like fig leaves.
22:14: What did Christ do when he saw Adam and Eve like that? He removed those garments and covered them with the offering of a sacrifice.
22:25: And, you know, it's like, you know, you know what I love about that part is, is he always has a better covering.
22:33: Yep. Amen to that. He always has a better covering, you know. I mean, we try to cover our own sin and everything, but Christ has always got to, you know, our
22:42: God, we serve this awesome God. We do. Amen to that. Let me, let me ask you.
22:50: So another claim is that decided,
22:55: I mean, determining on how many, I believe, wives or children do you have here on earth determines how many planets you get to populate in the afterlife.
23:06: Is that true? Yeah. So the mainstream LDS wouldn't hold to it as firmly as what they did back in the 1800s.
23:12: And that comes from Doctrine and Covenants 136, I believe it is. I have my quad behind me. And in there, it talks about how in order for a man to receive true exaltation, he needs to have a plurality of wives essentially is what it's talking about in there.
23:25: And so for you to, in order to enter into the highest degree of glory, the highest degree of heaven and the celestial kingdom, they would call it exaltation, that you have to have a plurality of wives.
23:36: Now, however, the mainstream LDS do not. How they would go around that is that the prophet received a revelation that that's no longer to be a thing.
23:44: And so now men can go into the exaltation without a plurality of wives. Now, they do still teach that you need to populate the world.
23:52: And so you need to have three plus kids. So in almost every Mormon situation, unless there is some sense of God causing or decreeing that somebody is going to be infertile in their life in that sense, they need to, they must, they need to have three or more kids in order to be obeying
24:15: God's command in that way. And so that's why you would see Mormons with large families is that they think they're obeying God by obeying the command that was given to Adam and Eve.
24:24: And so, yeah, no, I was going to say that the Mormon church still does practice a sense of polygamy, not in a physical sense.
24:34: The mainstream LDS church, not in a physical sense. However, if a man's wife that was sealed in the temple, they were married in the temple, they're going to be married in the next life.
24:44: If that woman dies and that man marries another woman that has not been sealed in the temple, have not ever been married in the temple.
24:52: He can marry her too for eternity. And so in their mind, that is a plurality in heaven.
24:57: So they still practice in a spirituality in that sense of a polygamous relationship.
25:04: However, they do not do it physically because of the mandates of the state that prohibits such actions in a married life.
25:12: So, so, you know, most Mormons I've ever met, they live like they live, but seems from an outside perspective.
25:24: These wonderful Christian lives with great morals, very kind and generous, loving.
25:32: They love to talk about Jesus, you know. So they look like Christians, they talk like Christians, they profess to be
25:42: Christians, but it's a different Jesus, right? A different gospel and a different spirit.
25:50: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, just because somebody looks, just because some, and we have to think about it truly at the severity it is.
26:01: If somebody was to hand you a cup of waterhaps and you were dying of thirst, I would be so happy if you were to drink that water.
26:06: However, if I saw that guy pouring poison in the water before you gave it to you, I would not allow you to drink it, right?
26:12: Even if it looks like it, even if it's going to quench your thirst, like for a short moment, you're going to die from poison.
26:18: And so the reality of it is, is that the LDS are presenting what appears to be water, appears to be
26:23: Christian. But I'm sorry, you are denying Jesus Christ as the I am. You are denying
26:30: Christ as being that one and only true God and the second person of the Trinity. You're denying his payment that was made upon the cross.
26:39: There's a denial of, and that being that all the righteousness that you need. As Galatians chapter two, we just read it.
26:46: If righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died needlessly. They're making Christ die needlessly because they believe that they have to pay the 10 % tithe.
26:54: They have to be baptized. They have to do work in the temple, X, Y, and Z, that they have to live an obedient life.
27:01: And I mean, we could even open up to several places in their book and in their stuff where it talks about this, that they believe that it's their works that justify them.
27:11: And so that right there is a false gospel. And I've never once heard any
27:16: LDS person ever present to me something that's biblical in the sense of the gospel. And it's short of summation being the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
27:25: First Corinthians 15, one through four. Never, ever had an LDS person even come close to telling me that when
27:30: I asked them directly what the gospel is. So yeah, you're absolutely right. False Jesus, false gospel, false spirit.
27:36: And just because it looks good doesn't mean that it actually is. It has poison there. And as the Christian, we need to be aware of these things, understand those things.
27:44: Well, we got to know the real things. We got to know that's the real thing. In order to identify the counterfeit, you need to know the real thing.
27:53: And the Holy Spirit is going to let you know like, hey, wait a second and bring scriptures back to mind.
28:02: And so I'm going to cut this short. I think we covered a lot because I want to have room for questions and answers and stuff like that.
28:12: But if anybody has questions or they have loved ones or just somebody they generally care about that is caught up in this damnable cult.
28:23: Please get a hold of my brother right here, Braden Patterson. And it's at ReformedExMormon on YouTube, correct?
28:30: Yeah, absolutely. Yep. And yeah, reach out to me there. And I've walked through many people that are dealing with different issues with it in regard to LDS.
28:39: And so I'm totally open to those conversations and would love to help anybody out that needs help in those areas. Now, one last thing, my brother from another mother.
28:49: What's the gospel? Oh, that's a good question. Well, I just said it really, really quickly out of First Corinthians 15, one through four.
28:58: But, you know, if I had another 30 seconds to tell you what the gospel is, is that you and I have sinned against our great and holy
29:07: God. And we will never be able to satisfy his righteousness, his law, because we have fallen short, very, very short of that law, very, very short of his glory.
29:17: And so it took God himself, because it is God himself that we have sinned against, to become flesh, live that perfect life, never sinning, never violating anything.
29:27: And for him to die the literal and physical death that you and I are deserving of, where he took the punishment, the wrath, the payment that we owed,
29:40: Romans 6, 23, for the wages of sin or death. Christ never sinned, but he suffered death and he tasted it for you and I.
29:48: And those final words on the cross mean everything to me to tell us that it's paid in full. It is finished.
29:54: Colossians 2, 13 and 14 really come to mind that those ordinances that were contrary to us, that were hostile to us, were taken out of the way, nailed with him to the cross.
30:09: Christ became sin, who knew no sin, for our behalf, so that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
30:17: And so through us having faith in Jesus Christ and that finished work that he's done upon the cross, he was buried and rose again on the third day, validating everything that he had previously said.
30:26: And not only this, but when he was raised, he sat us in the heavenly places with him. And so the gospel is
30:31: Jesus is Christ's perfect life, his death, burial and resurrection. And we go into much more depth on each one of those subjects, but we need to look to Christ alone for our salvation.
30:44: Yes. Amen. All right, my brother. Well, thank you very much.
30:51: Anytime, brother. Hey, I hope that everybody that is in this class of yours asks you a whole bunch of hard questions.
30:58: Make Hap sweat a little bit. Yeah, make me sweat. Make me sweat. I've been sweating enough.
31:04: It's been 115, 118 down here. Better get up in 130s in this class, brother.
31:10: I know. No, we just want to bless them. They're going through a ministerial school.
31:16: So cool. So all right, man. Well, God bless you. And I'll probably talk to you here in a few minutes. Anyways, I don't know.