DL Wins the Finals, Dr. Buck Reports on the SBC Annual Meeting, Dale Tuggy Wins the Strawman Award

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00:40

And good afternoon, welcome to The Dividing Line on a Friday. Yeah, we weren't playing on it. I'm You know what?

00:47

This is the same shirt that I wore in that picture where everybody else was in suits In Louisville, yeah, well anyway

00:56

So I just Sort of an informal program today. I wasn't supposed to be here.

01:02

I was going to drive back from Southern California today, but I came back last night.

01:08

That was That was an interesting thing playing bumper cars with lines of Semi Tractor trailers climbing up to what is that Chiriaco summit or something like that outside of?

01:23

The wind was blowing so hard and it was either India or Palm Springs. I stopped in I guess they're close by to each other

01:29

That it hurt. I mean the sand it was just stinging. It was it was whipping so hard But I at one point

01:36

I had 38 miles to the gallon because it was a tailwind It's just like whoo. I almost turned the engine off.

01:42

Just let it, you know sail all the way in it was it was great So I do not know why this particular program is called the victory lap dividing line but But but rich is rich is pretty excited about it.

01:55

Come on. You don't know why I have I know I Look one of us has to be mature.

02:01

I was gonna start singing. We are the champions It's my is my is my computer up here

02:17

There you go, yes, yes

02:40

Some people have no earthly idea what's going here because some of you do not go to Facebook or anything like that, but oh the past few weeks there has has been a

02:51

Facebook What they call it podcast is that podcast but podcast battle royale 32

03:00

Podcast started off. I didn't even know about it. I didn't know about the first round I even know who we beat in the first round to be honest with you

03:07

But I found out in the second round where we beat the briefing With al moeller which put us into the next round against apology radio

03:16

And that's when things started getting a little bit hairy a little bit strange But yes, oh

03:25

Something let's let's This is this is

03:31

Clem's reaction to your song so what I'm getting When I'm when I'm getting pictures of the grandkids for the whole thing, but anyways

03:41

Yesterday was the final round Sheologians defeated

03:48

Whitehorse in and so it was it was it was me versus it was us versus the she was in the sheologians

03:54

So everybody made it me versus summer father -daughter Competition and the memes went crazy.

04:00

I didn't get a chance to play games and have fun because I was working hard yesterday

04:07

So I didn't get to you know promote anything or do anything like that, but the memes were great. Thanks for all the means guys

04:13

They were absolutely hilarious Especially all the I guess I look like Thanos except like much much much smaller

04:21

And so I you know, someone even took that scene from Infinity Wars And and made it versus DL versus sheologians where I'm sorry little girl little one and Chuck Chuck's are off the cliff and that's

04:38

It's like wow. Mm -hmm. That's Vicious very vicious very very vicious, but it was all done in good fun

04:45

Hopefully everybody picked up new new listeners. And that was that was a lot of fun. So We did have to play the the rocky theme there at the end.

04:53

That was that was good. So No, you're the one that said we couldn't play we are the champions. So yeah, you you you

05:00

Nix made that So so and now if you ever did you see to see the mean that reformed

05:05

James White memes for 16 a 19s just put up Because summer summer gave a really really nice concession speech last night.

05:14

I was I was deeply Deeply moved by that speech so much. So I changed my vote

05:21

I couldn't I would like to once she went and the ridiculous sweaters.

05:26

I Had no choice I had to But but the the five doctrinally sound beats per minute

05:35

While wearing the ridiculous sweater, yeah well that's that's exactly what they did is they is is they just put it up with the the points of the

05:44

Golden chain of redemption. So if you see it on on Twitter or on Facebook, you'll have to grab that So anyways, we've had some fun with it.

05:53

Appreciate it. Thanks for everybody who participated and Even those of you who participated out of spite

05:59

And hatred and everything else I feel sorry for you, that's all

06:05

I can say I feel sorry for you There was a very different Attitude when it was like us against apology or radio or me against geologians because we're all in the same family

06:16

You know, it would have been great to have had the final four been apology radio dividing line cultish and and Geologians then it would have been why do we need bother?

06:27

We won. It's it's done. We this is it but it didn't work out that way, so Thanks to everybody that was involved that it was it was a lot of fun now got to get to work here because we have

06:42

Why would summer white want to FaceTime in the middle of of the dividing line? A Second here.

06:53

Hold on a second here Let's let's Hey Clementine, I'm I'm doing the dividing line right now

07:08

Did you did you take did you take mom's phone Okay, but you do bye

07:26

Jenny called me this morning She had actually taken summer's phone and she or her iPad and she knows how to get into it even without I don't know how

07:33

She does it and so so I can hear summer going January you can't just call people.

07:38

She's calling all these different people. She may have friends in China by now that we don't know about So anyhow

07:49

Yes, there you there. Did you take mom's phone? Yeah, there you It's mom's iPad that her phone that's it's it's a technical thing just a just a small technical difference anyways yes, let's get on to some other topics here because we are taking taking up the time of a man who

08:11

I once Would normally identify on the dividing line as the troublemaker from Texas, but I can't any longer

08:19

I can't any longer because he is is now dr.

08:25

Tom Buck graduate of the and I think Tom have you checked on the on the

08:32

Diploma is the word the emphasized maybe in all caps bold font something like that because I'm sorry

08:40

I noticed that Southern graduates tend to really emphasize the Southern Baptist Seminary as in in opposition to any wannabes

08:49

Well, it's part of the legal name. Dr. Muller says Yeah, yeah,

08:55

I know the only thing I've checked for is to see if the ink is starting to disappear Yeah that that lemon juice ink it doesn't last very long so you don't want it you don't want that to happen so But congratulations

09:09

Dr. Buck on your on your graduation from there. I did find it's interesting that you had done most of your work in the field of the the

09:19

Expository preaching of Hebrews. Am I correct about that? well, particularly looking at the book of Hebrews as an expository sermon and then evaluating how the

09:31

Hebrews preacher Handled the Old Testament text. So I went back and first dealt with the

09:37

Old Testament text and looking at it in its original Setting and and what the author was communicating then

09:44

I went and looked and to see if the Hebrews preacher Actually used the Old Testament text in expository fashion.

09:51

So that's what I was there. Did you happen to tackle? one of the most difficult challenging issues that I know of in New Testament Material and that is the fact that there are

10:05

Places where the writer to the Hebrews and I my theory is and I'm not sure what sure is

10:11

But my theory is is actually a sermon from Paul that was written by Luke That's my theory too.

10:17

I'm not joking. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I told the guy this yesterday when he asked me so yeah Yeah, I that was the conclusion

10:23

I came to in I did 85 sermons through through Hebrews a number of years ago and It's definitely

10:30

Paul's theology, but it's not his language it is very much so and So hey, if you and I came to the same conclusion, that's pretty much it.

10:39

That's we can just never talked about this before There you go, that's fascinating but Anyway, the the fact is that the writer

10:49

In at least at least one place and I think two places Utilizes a textual variant

10:56

From the Septuagint that goes against the Masoretic text specifically in Hebrews 10 a body you have prepared for me

11:03

And then the the variant in Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 though.

11:09

I was a husband to them But all verses I did not care for them got all and got all becomes the the

11:17

Septuagint reading Those are those are tough tough Issues to to wrestle with and Yet they come up apologetically a lot too.

11:27

So that's just one of them Yeah, I didn't get I didn't get past chapter 4 so I did not do the entire book of Hebrews So I ended with his use of the psalm the psalms in chapter 3 and 4 so I only got through chapter 4

11:43

Well, then we'll just have to see what you come up with and you finally get there someday It was a lot of work just doing what oh believe me

11:51

I do understand So anyway, you were just at the annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention.

11:57

And so I wasn't and in fact, I Would love to take you sometime if you want

12:08

And you could slip on that to Atlanta well, I mean it's your family doesn't live in Atlanta no, they don't they don't know

12:16

You you really really really Want to make yourself completely Persona non grata in the

12:23

SPC if you show up at the SPC annual meeting with me I mean that is pretty much the end of that Well, what

12:29

I'm hoping is is maybe you would become the target Oh, I see and sort of take take some of the pressure off you.

12:36

Oh, okay. All right Well, if you want to want to go that direction, it's great to have friends. Anyway So I thought that Rocky theme was for me at first Now every year because this is our third year to do a report on the

12:50

SPC right? Yeah, I know I know so anyway It took place this week

12:59

Obviously, there are all sorts of issues on the table in regards to what would the progress of the woke movement be the the progressivist movement that is really seeking to to undo the conservative resurgence of the 80s and 90s so in in general, what was the what was the milieu the atmosphere like Well, I mean it's kicked off with J .D.

13:31

Greer and other leaders coming out on stage with wigs on and guitars doing winter Skinner So really, you know, so I mean that's a great way to start.

13:40

Don't you think? So that's how the convention began In wrestling that they wouldn't

13:46

I guess play sweet home, Alabama. That's okay. It's just felt like a youth youth pastors thing. But anyway

13:53

The Poorly poorly done went at that But the week was had a lot of good points high points in it in a lot of respects just regarding the fact you know that There was a good atmosphere throughout the week

14:06

And of course, we were addressing the issues of that had come up in the Houston Chronicle regarding them, right?

14:13

Sexual abuse that occurred in in churches And so, you know,

14:19

I'm thankful that they addressed those things I may have addressed some things a little bit differently, but At the at the end of the day, they you know, they could not go without being addressed

14:31

So the two most of the the big issues that came up were the last day which would have been

14:38

Wednesday with the URL C's report and the questions that occurred from that and then the

14:47

Resolutions that came to the floor at the close of the convention now those resolutions for those who are not

14:58

Southern Baptists You can't just go running into the

15:03

Southern Baptist Convention and throw a resolution out on the table, right? That's correct.

15:09

So I have to have them mailed in to the resolutions committee I think at least three weeks or so before the convention then the committee comes in and reviews those and Determines which ones they will send to the floor which ones they reject and So so somebody else has

15:27

Has control over that. So if these resolutions have have made it that far

15:33

There's somebody that has determined that this is worthwhile or is there politics involved with that or what?

15:40

Not any Paul, I mean the only politics should be every committee But as far as I know there could be behind the scenes

15:46

I'm probably certain that there are behind -the -scenes politics going on But there's no way that we could we don't even know what the resolutions are

15:55

What have been submitted to the committee until they are released? In the report on the last day of the convention

16:04

So when you show so a week ahead of time, you don't know what you're gonna be voting on No from what

16:09

I understand and of course, you know, I'm new to some of this stuff from what I understand years ago They would print them a couple of weeks ahead of time in the in the state papers of the convention

16:19

But now we get them the morning of so Wow Yeah, yeah, it really it doesn't even give you time to really digest and deal with those

16:28

That was particularly true as we'll talk about with resolution 9 To think of shoving that in the hands of the people and then being able to digest that for an afternoon vote

16:37

An evening vote actually it ended up being is a difficult thing Wow. Okay, so The the issue let's let's do

16:48

The ERLC thing first because you were involved with that and then we'll we'll talk a little about the resolution 9 issue

16:58

Second after that so obviously Just I thought it was just what

17:06

I remember seeing the link to the article that Russell Moore had written in 2007 when he was at Southern That was in that was in the

17:20

Evangelical Theological Society Journal wasn't it Jets? That was 2006 the article. Okay.

17:25

All right, so 2006 so 13 years ago Russell Moore writes an article that Basically says the patriarchy is a good thing.

17:36

Is that the way that you can summarize that? Oh, absolutely He was clearly saying that that biblical the biblical understanding of patriarchy

17:45

So, you know We want to be careful to say that not the way patriarchy may have been abused in culture itself

17:51

But the biblical view and teaching of patriarchy He saw as a good thing that because we have

17:57

Abraham the the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob was He made it very clear and used the word patriarchy and said we should embrace the biblical view of it, right?

18:07

and that's not generally what you would expect in his presentations in Chapel at Southeastern these days, right?

18:18

No, and you you certainly makes you scratch you hit your head when you see how he embraces supports and promotes

18:25

Beth Moore Who is anything but that? Embracing that view, right?

18:31

So You had the opportunity of asking some questions Yes, in fact, there were two questions

18:40

There were three questions from the floor the third one. I don't know the individual I was involved in the first two questions

18:46

I actually crafted them both but Travis McNeely who is a messenger of Woodlawn Baptist Church Got I had him at one mic and then

18:55

I was at another so that both of my questions could be asked And I wouldn't what did you want to find out?

19:02

Well, we were going with with a different thing that we found there was a recording in 2007 so a year after that article and It was a recording on a podcast with nine marks and I'll quote you what

19:15

Russell Moore said he was asked specifically about whether a woman underneath the authority of a pastor could teach or preach to men and He answered if the

19:26

Apostle Paul wanted to say that he would have said it Everybody in the churches remain under the authority of the pastor

19:32

It doesn't mean you now have the authority to sin to go against the creational order

19:39

It would be very much akin to a woman saying I'm going to commit adultery under the headship of my husband

19:46

I have my husband's permission to commit adultery That was his quote. Hmm So we quoted that to him

19:55

Excuse me Then he goes on to say nor does it allow a woman to do what is forbidden in Scripture? Which is to teach or exercise authority over a man?

20:03

And so we asked him is this still your position on women teaching in the church? And I'm sure you got it just a direct interactive response

20:14

Yeah, I mean if you've ever put your thumb on a watermelon seed and try to get press it down. That's what happened

20:23

He thanked him for the question and then proceeded to act like he did not hear the question He said what

20:31

I would say is this he said yeah, he says I have very strong convictions about biblical complementarity

20:36

That God has both gifted men and women within the church and that God is distinctively giving roles to men and women our

20:45

Baptist faith and message he went to that and said that it's Confesses complementarity and then he said we immediately we have issues on which we all agree issues.

20:54

We agree completely There are lots of other issues. We have in common agreement and secondary tertiary levels

21:01

Then he went on to compare to answer the question He compared the fact that he believes we should take the

21:08

Lord's Supper weekly, but he goes to a church that doesn't Take it weekly and he's happy to be there

21:18

It was an odd thing because taking the Lord not taking this Lord's Supper weekly is

21:24

To not do so is not a sin, right? But he said a woman preaching in the church on a

21:29

Sunday morning was a sin so he tried to make it an issue about Comparative to comparing it to taking the

21:38

Lord's Supper weekly on a minor disagreement like that So he just totally evaded the question.

21:44

He went on for about probably a period of five three to five minutes even answering things like I believe that every child needs a mother and father.

21:56

I mean, what's that got to do with what was that? Seriously, it's what he said We need fatherhood we need motherhood.

22:05

Yeah And then he said the idea that we're listening too much to women in the Southern Baptist Convention It's not an idea that makes sense right now

22:13

Who was saying that nobody was saying we shouldn't listen to women more or it was saying it was about one specific thing

22:20

It was about whether women can preach in a Sunday morning corporate worship service, right? So he ended by saying let's be complementarian and try to be true to complementarianism

22:32

And under the faithfulness of the inerrant Word of Christ, and he never answered the question That was that issue.

22:39

Yeah, so We know how that works. That's We are we are back into a presidential election cycle,

22:46

I guess and so we know how that works You don't normally get direct answers to direct questions.

22:52

So what what question did you manage to get asked? I was next and that question that I asked regarded living out and And therefore

23:01

I said the following I Said I'm thankful for how you've spoken with great clarity in the past regarding issues of homosexuality

23:11

However, you're in the ERLC's endorsement of living out has been anything but clear

23:16

Your endorsement stated that the resources that living out were anchored in biblical conviction

23:21

And then I quoted three things the resources said That they teach that a same -sex attracted individual is fixed in their orientation the same -sex couples can be quote a healthy environment to nurture children and That parents quote have it should have any family room rule for teenagers

23:42

About same -sex girlfriends or boyfriends must be the same for opposite sex ones

23:47

So what I asked was is since these resources existed at the time of your endorsement

23:53

Would you please explain the circumstances that gave rise to your endorsement that Enabled you to say that those type of resources are anchored to biblical conviction

24:03

So he did not deny that the resources existed at the time He didn't even address what those resources said nor renounced those views that they teach

24:12

He simply went in to immediately defending Sam Albury similar to how he immediately defended

24:18

Kent Karen Pryor last year when asked a question about revoice But last year they brought up Karen Pryor I Intentionally did not bring up Sam Albury and he chose to do that So he used

24:32

Sam Albury Said that he has lived his life heroically and I don't

24:38

Deny that but we didn't ask about Sam Albury. We asked about Russell Moore Excuse me,

24:44

Russell Moore 40 and slip Russell Moore there and we're asking why he endorsed these things

24:50

So he said I endorse Sam Albury. I didn't endorse his colleagues But he most certainly did because he wrote he gave that endorsement on the living out website and Said these resources are anchored in biblical truth.

25:05

Mm -hmm. He did not give a straight answer there either. Hmm And there are only three total questions asked

25:11

I guess Yes, the third question was About something else.

25:17

I can't remember what it was about to be honest with you. Hmm Now, I think

25:22

I saw something either on Facebook or Twitter maybe both that you have Transcribed these and or someone transcribed them and put that out there so you can read the rest individual that transcribed them if they look

25:37

It's one of the last tweets I've made today I've made several but one of the last ones that I did has the transcript of the

25:45

URL CQ and a okay All right, so You didn't get the answers you wanted but I do have to I You know, maybe the problem here

25:58

Tom is is that the answers were were over our heads? because For example, you just used the illustration of a watermelon seed

26:08

Right. You need to understand that that only makes sense south of the Mason -Dixon line and and and east of the

26:15

Mississippi And I'm sorry I Don't know.

26:23

I don't know. I'm just simply saying that dr. Malcolm Yarnell Who has taught there in your your neck of the woods for a very long time

26:36

Tweeted this he said for years. I have watched ERL sees. Dr. Moore. He is perhaps the most insightful and engaging systematic theologian ever to write

26:48

Now I missed it Where is dr. Moore's systematic theology of is that available anywhere?

26:57

I think he meant to say politician. Oh That's a big difference to for autocorrect to actually do that No, but he said the most insightful and engaging systematic theologian ever to write he is spiritually astute

27:15

Culturally attuned and a good speaker. He gave great leadership to SPC 2019 now, here's the the line that Might help us understand why we don't understand his answers.

27:26

He showed integrity in affirming theology grows now my

27:34

I've for a long time used the phrase theology matters But now we have theology grows

27:42

So is that in light of the 2006

27:47

Jets article the 2007 interview and now the fact that there seems to be a

27:56

Evolution a growth that has taken place. Is that what what we're seeing here?

28:02

There's no doubt of that in fact, I think that the reason that Malcolm urinal said that is because Russell Moore said throughout that that the 2019

28:13

Russell Moore Would like to say to the tooth what he would like to say to the two south 2007

28:18

Russell Moore, ah, he didn't tell us exactly what that was, but he made it clear there was a difference

28:24

Hmm, so he said that he was evolving Malcolm urinal picked up on that and as I've said

28:30

Malcolm urinal is he's the only traditionalist that I know of prominent one that has gone is is extremely woke

28:37

But he was a Calvinist then he became a traditionalist now, he's fully woke So if anybody understands how to evolve theologically, it would be

28:46

Malcolm urinal. So maybe he's see stuff. I don't Yeah, that must be it, you know, and this seems to be popular in our culture

28:53

I mean President Obama was was for and then against and then for and then you got

28:59

Evolving and and now Joe Biden, you know Hyde Amendment for years and years, but now no longer and so I guess that's just how it works now is that you need to need to evolve and change and Everybody knows that I'm being somewhat facetious and that there are people who truly do think

29:17

That the best theology is a theology that never has any final form to it

29:23

So when you when you have the emergent church folks It does it's frightening to think about the fact that the attitudes that we see amongst some of the emergent church

29:35

Types are now starting to be enunciated by people. We never ever ever expected To to utter words like that.

29:41

But yeah theology grows One thing we know is first Timothy 2 12 to 14 is not has not evolved and It's it's clear

29:54

Now people do all kinds of hermeneutical gymnastics with it But the reality is is that that scripture has not changed since 2007 what's changed is

30:05

Russell Moore Now, I didn't I didn't get a chance to see the McKissick Askell debate.

30:11

I started a section of it, but I Just been very very busy this week

30:17

And I think you didn't get to see it either right you were stuck No, I made it in finally.

30:22

I got there. Okay there, but do you remember any of it? I guess you're up pretty much all night.

30:28

I do remember it. It was I think people should watch it I think it's informative on a variety of levels.

30:33

I thought that Dwight McKissick represented his position well, and I'm not saying in the sense that I find it compelling at any level

30:43

But just regarding how he presented it in the opening was was well I thought he fell apart and the wheels came off during the cross -examination

30:53

Which you have always said that's where the wheels do come off usually in the debate Yep, and I think

30:59

I think it's worth watching because of that it was unfortunate that he got a couple of times a flustered and said some statements that were

31:11

Well, I'll just say unfortunate because he at one time he made the statement that I think that he thought ultimately that we white men just didn't want women leading us.

31:21

Oh my So there were a couple of pejorative type statements like that that were very unfortunate

31:28

I think if I think if Dwight had an opportunity to rethink it and had not just been

31:33

Flustered that he wouldn't choose to say those things And I I'm sorry that he did

31:39

I really am but He made another statement later on similar to that Well, that's what that's what cross -examination does though And it's it's not an easy thing to do people people watch people do it and it it seems

31:56

Like it would be easy to do but once you get into it you you find out how challenging it really is And so I'm I will

32:02

I'm going to try to find time to listen to it I was at 65 hours worth of stuff to listen to when

32:09

I left for, California I listened to stuff all the way driving to and from California and now

32:14

I have 70 hours. So it's just not fair It just keeps growing as People say you need to listen to this and here's a new book there and and that's how it works

32:23

But you know how that goes. So So what was your what is your final takeaway Tom on?

32:29

Where do you where do you see the convention? Well, what's what's next year because J .D.

32:35

Greer, it's normally a two -year thing, right? Yes, so he's present till next year then

32:41

Orlando will meet there I I think it'll be a big one Obviously, I was unprepared with for resolution 9 and oh, we didn't even get to that.

32:51

I'm sorry forgive me race theory and intersectionality and that's That's one of the things I'm very I don't think that's a good sign

32:59

But it could be that it might be, you know, I told some guys this morning. This could really be a gift actually because we can begin to help people see where we've been saying things are going and This is not a good sign at all

33:14

But it might be helpful for us to begin to get what get people to wake up No pun intended with the woke movement, but okay, so so the fundamental objection to resolution 9

33:28

Was that it? identifies critical theory and intersectionality as useful tools of Cultural analysis, so is that the terminology was used?

33:42

Yeah, they said they're analytical tools That are useful to aid us in evaluating a variety of human experiences

33:49

So what they were they were saying that I mean it does clearly say if you read it

33:54

That script that it cannot trump scripture that anything that's that it says that's against God's Word that God's Word trumps it so Essentially, so if you read it just from that standpoint there is enough if you will to to take care of that the problem is

34:16

The problem is that It's not enough

34:21

To alert people to the issues of what critical race theory and intersectionality is

34:28

So for example, they said in one of the first whereas that whereas in the resolution critical race theory and intersectionality have been

34:36

Appropriated now listen is appropriated by individuals with worldviews. They're contrary to the Christian faith

34:41

So I spoke against this from the floor and I said the truth is they weren't merely appropriated

34:48

But originated those who hold on biblical worldviews now I I'm not that's

34:54

I'm certainly not the smartest guy in the room But I was able to see at least that I don't think most of the messengers know

35:02

What no know that that's the case, right? That's misleading and I would recommend everybody listen to the briefing by al moeller this more from this morning

35:10

He points out that same issue. I also went on to say that it's it's absolute

35:16

They say it's incapable of diagnosing man's problems and I came out and said it's incompatible with the gospel

35:23

I said critical race theory and Intersectionality are based upon Marxism a godless intellectual foundation and both include a praxis contradictory to the gospel of Jesus Christ So our problem was it didn't say enough that the messengers were voting on something that they didn't understand

35:41

Not because they were ignorant or incapable of understanding, but they're they do not they're ignorant of the issues

35:48

They don't know what the issues are It was rushed in on the floor they literally limited us to 10 minutes of debate.

35:57

Hmm It was late in the hour. They had it as one of the last Resolutions everybody wanted to go to dinner

36:05

Tom Askell offered some amendments mimics to strengthen the language They voted that down and then they pushed this through what happened is the people just trusted the committee

36:16

Hmm it was it really is a troubling thing It injects into the system of the

36:22

SPC this kind of language and my greatest fear is What the social justice warriors will do with this document?

36:30

They'll use it as a shield and and every time that we point out that their intersectionality and cultural race

36:39

Excuse me critical race theory Issues that they're pushing every time we call them out on that and show how it's unbiblical

36:46

They'll just say well that's your opinion and the convention has already said that she's for analytical tools and They'll just have a shield and a cover to push their social justice agenda.

36:56

Hmm Is that how resolutions can function within seminaries and things like that?

37:03

Well resolutions aren't binding. Yeah, so it's interesting about this because I've been criticizing obvious this resolution.

37:11

Others have criticized it I have spoken directly to leaders in the SPC who

37:17

Reluctantly voted for it and now they regret having done so that this was just a bad resolution

37:23

But what we constantly hear is I've heard it multiple times day that resolutions don't mean anything.

37:30

They're not binding This is no big deal Five minutes later the same people are going everybody needs to read the resolution we made against sexual abuse

37:39

We're so glad this was made So which is it the resolutions are they important and the press needs to pay attention that we made a resolution against sexual abuse

37:47

Which I think is important or are they unimportant and the resolution about critical race theory and intersectionality?

37:53

Oh, just don't look here. Nothing to see move along. Right, right. Yeah Yeah, well,

38:00

I Know there was some confusion as to who authored it and what their intentions were and editing and stuff like that that we don't can't get into right now, but There is no question that I would imagine the vast majority of delegates messengers.

38:16

Sorry Would not be overly familiar with the background of critical theory

38:25

The world it is a worldview it's not just a it's not an analytical tool It's it's a worldview, but it's a non -christian worldview.

38:32

It's antithetical to to the Christian worldview and The relationship that has to intersectionality as well, that's that's fairly that's still new stuff for a lot of us and so to rush something like that through without providing a primer or some reading or something like that seems

38:52

Seems strange to me. It really really does I Agree, and several people have as I said in leadership in the

39:00

SPC Have said the same thing that we were asking people to vote on something. They didn't understand

39:05

Yeah, and I listen when I heard about these things a year ago I didn't I had no clue what they even meant or what they were.

39:12

I still struggle to understand it It takes some bright minds to to get and understand these things now some have made the argument

39:20

Well, this is maybe you can answer this. Maybe there's no big deal We're making too big of a deal in this because we study, you know someone said haven't you ever studied

39:29

Islam to better understand it and I just don't think that's a good comparison.

39:36

How would you answer that? No I'm seeking to win Muslims to Christ So if you're trying to win the people if you're trying to win critical theorists and people promoting intersectionality to Christ Then yeah, you need to know what they're saying but that's not what this is a that's how this is about and in fact, these are people saying that this is a

39:54

Tool to be used in our in our educational system and in everything else There's no there's not even a comparison between Asia.

40:02

Let me remind you an old tactic from long ago We used to deal with apologetics organizations that felt using the

40:08

Book of Mormon as an authoritative Source to witness to Mormon right was a good idea

40:14

We stood strong against that that same thing with people who want to use the Quran as To actually try to make the

40:20

Quran the source of a gospel message and we're like, no you don't you don't do that so but this situation is is

40:29

Coming from you just wonder These folks didn't just get elected last year

40:34

There this has been coming for a while and we were we were I I'll say

40:39

I was asleep And I think most of us were our eyes were someplace else

40:45

Now this if people do not see, you know, we've been saying for a long time that For at least for the last year that critical race theory intersectionality.

40:54

These are worldviews They're being pushed in the church and we kept hearing. Oh, you're just overreacting.

40:59

You're overreacting now We got a resolution and it's it even though it still does I want to be fair. It's still saying that Scripture at the end of the day is our final authority and trumps everything else

41:10

It has opened the door if not ever so slightly and I think it will certainly be the camel head if you will under the tent,

41:18

I want to tell you one last thing because this is how the The committee chairman responded to my public objection to this

41:27

I quoted Paul in Colossians 2 6 and 8 and Where he's obviously where he says see to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit according to human tradition

41:36

So I said, you know when it kind of came to worldly philosophy and human tradition Paul did not tell the

41:41

Colossians to work to adopt them or adapt them but to abandon them Right response was to that immediately was that Paul said?

41:51

That we're not merely said that we're not to be taken captive by them So he didn't say that they couldn't be used as analytical tools

41:58

Essentially and then argued that Paul he equated what this is doing with what

42:04

Paul did On Mars Those two things.

42:09

Yeah. Yeah act 17. Yeah It's in Colossians. Obviously an antithesis is set up That it is said rather than according to Christ not along with Christ They're the antithesis is plain in the grammar of the text.

42:25

So to say that well He didn't really mean that there is there is an antithesis We should have a synthesis of these things always keeping scripture first is what they'll always say

42:34

Well that ends up being the reality is is something completely different And no, that's not what

42:40

Paul was doing on on on Mars Hill at all People who think he was he was saying well, let's let's say these were useful ideas this idolatry that you were in and I'm just gonna try to Incrementally get you into the truth is again a major misreading of what was going on in act 17

42:58

So yeah, there's been a this has been coming for a long time and now we're seeing the fruit of it and I don't know

43:04

I don't know how it's gonna be how it's gonna be stopped a lot of people in the audience are wondering what we've been cooking and our microwaves the dinging dinging and What they need to understand is that Tom and I are on the same message list

43:16

And and so people are text messaging The list that we're on in regards to the social justice stuff

43:23

And so you'd hear it coming across his and then you hear it coming across mine and so it does sound like dingy dingy dingy all over the place because some other folks are

43:33

Out there doing their thing. So I thought you were popping popcorn Now I'm watching the stuff coming across our little

43:43

Secret text message thing there and that's what's I can't turn it off I I even went into settings and said no do not play sound it still plays the sound so I Yeah, anyways, well, thank you

43:55

Tom. I appreciate your your Giving us some insight on what was going on there, especially since I couldn't even follow the stuff in our chat that we were just talking about And so it's helpful to everybody else.

44:08

I know that there's gonna be more discussion, especially hey, this might actually start getting people talking about critical theory and Intersectionality in the

44:18

SPC maybe that'll result in something next year. That would be good. Well, we can say it may be a gift

44:23

Yeah, it was a silver lining by the way I I'm so sad that when I heard you're wearing the same shirt is the picture that I didn't have time to run real quick And slip into a suit

44:36

Yeah, thanks a lot guys I should have known man I should have known hey

44:41

I was the one most comfortable at dinner though. So that was it was a trap. There you go. So Ding there it is

44:48

All right, brother. We'll be talking to you later. Thank you very much Dr.

44:55

Tom Bach coming out of Lindale, Texas there and giving us a Report on what happened in regards to the

45:03

Southern Baptist Convention and all the stuff related to related to that and I appreciate that hey,

45:11

I let's change the camera here because We have about 13 minutes left.

45:19

I wanted to show you What was in the background of the shot there? but what

45:24

Was waiting for me when I when I got into the office today and here is my 1550

45:34

Stephanus and It has been rebound by Jeffrey Rice You can see the the edge here.

45:44

It says 1550. It's got his sort of trademark hubs Here, but this is a leather

45:52

It's a special though they use for antique books, it's been antiqued so it looks like it's old even though it's brand -new and Of course the text is now

46:02

The text is now Much, but it's much safer. It will be preserved better than in the original cover the front cover which had fallen off and So the spine has been

46:17

Has been better preserved and for me the value of this book is the text itself and So especially the

46:32

The Marginal material that you can see out there Because this is the 1550

46:38

Stephanus. This is where Stephanus had Done one of the first it's certain

46:46

I think it is the yeah, it is the first it is the first Collation not complete collation partial collation of a small number of manuscripts into the margins of a printed

47:03

Greek text and What this you know, I I Don't I don't remember whether the complex.

47:11

I don't think the competition polyglot had that it may have had it as an addendum volume But right in the same page the point that the importance of the 1550

47:20

Stephanus is is that When Beza did his work

47:25

Starting, you know 15 years or so after this There That compilation that Stephanus did

47:34

Beza relied upon that But what he didn't realize is that one of the manuscripts cited here in the 1550 the beta

47:44

Manuscript He now possessed it had been given to him. He didn't know what its providence was.

47:50

He didn't know who had had it before him and That's what's called Codex Bezae Cantabrigensis. The Living Bible of the early church.

47:57

It is a highly Idiosyncratic text it's not a reliable text, but the problem is

48:05

When Stephanus would look at a variant when Beza would look at a variant reading if he's looking at Stephanus He has this text.

48:12

He sees the beta cited by Stephanus. Then he looks at his own his copy of the same manuscript and It likewise

48:24

Has the same reading now. He thinks there's multiple manuscripts that have the same reading in it and that's going to impact his thinking and his textual critical process when it's actually the same manuscript, that's

48:35

One of the you know, that's gonna happen Early on in the process, we're still fixing things like that We're The the work of CSNTM down in Dallas right now with with Dan Dan Wallace one of the reasons the numbers of manuscripts that we have

48:55

Catalog changes goes up and down and up and down is because as people like the guys at CSNTM are

49:02

Photographing manuscripts they discover. Oh, hey this partial manuscript here is actually a part of another partial manuscript

49:10

That's over in that city over there So this is actually one manuscript. So the number of total manuscripts goes down by one

49:18

Or they discover they're leafing through and discover. Hey, wait a minute. This is a second manuscript. They've been bound together

49:24

These are two separate manuscripts or maybe three So the number goes back up and you have to assign a new number and you know

49:30

This is type of stuff. That's That's going on. So we're still working on the cataloging part because the manuscripts aren't all in one place

49:40

That was far more the case in the days of Erasmus and Stephanos and Beza there in the 16th century and Just another reason why it is simply wrong -headed

49:59

To say hey what those guys did back then let's let's go back there as we seek to take on people that now have a

50:09

Thousand times information we have then we're gonna rely on and that's how we're gonna do our apologetics.

50:15

No, that's bad bad Bad bad direction to go and then

50:20

I was sort of excited because there was another book waiting for me That I knew

50:25

I needed to get Called the future of New Testament textual scholarship

50:32

Some of the the articles in here really important stuff, but I noticed that Dr.

50:44

Gurry here at Phoenix Seminary has a chapter in here and of course there is

50:51

Material Klaus Wachtel the development of the Coherence based genealogical method CBGM its place in textual scholarship and digital editing.

50:59

That's one of the main reasons I needed to have this obviously But there's a whole lot more in here.

51:05

That is going to be very Very very useful I think and so that just came out and was waiting for me

51:12

Unfortunately, it's not available electronically. So it's the type where you have to sit down with the with the marker and Not be riding a bike or doing anything else.

51:22

You have to focus solely upon that. So Definitely going to be doing that looking forward to that And if you're you know, there's a few geeks out there that want to keep up with stuff like that And that's sort of important Eight minutes, um, yeah,

51:39

I got time for that. I'll there is an article that I saw in Patheos that I want to get to maybe next time if I can a converts guide to not becoming

51:49

Catholic and Which is meant tongue -in -cheek, but I want to respond to that and point out.

51:56

It's it's many many errors but what I can do briefly is I started listening to I did not listen to all of it, but I started listening to another

52:05

Dale Tuggy debate that recently took place and Wow It's so hard to listen to dr.

52:15

Tuggy His his arguments are just just so bad,

52:21

I mean they they're it stuns me that there are so many people just think he's the cat's meow when it comes to arguing against the

52:30

Trinity because 95 % of the time he's burning straw men and he knows he's doing it and pretty much openly admits he's doing it it's just Really listen really hard to listen to Very very frustrating, but let me just give you an example.

52:50

This is just a quick little statement here to give you an idea of What what

52:57

I'm what I'm talking about This is from his his opening statement Just a single simultaneous difference no matter how small

53:06

Proves that we are dealing with two beans and not with one. So a if there is any

53:14

Difference and he said simultaneous difference Between the father and the son

53:22

Then we're dealing with two beings not one Now he knows

53:27

He well knows Though he didn't even attempt to refute it

53:34

How important in historical Christian theology the

53:40

Distinction between being in person is he doesn't bother to care to remain consistent on that and so he knows that the

53:52

Orthodox formulation of the Doctrine and Trinity differentiates between being in person and says that in The issue of being there is only one being of God simple.

54:03

It cannot be divided is not complex and Therefore there is no difference in the being

54:10

That is shared by the son in his deity and the father in his deity or the spirit in his deity

54:16

It's just one being can't be divided up into thirds or anything else, but that the Doctrine the Trinity specifically as a part of its teaching says that the father son and spirit will differ from one another or we could not recognize

54:29

Them that they have taken different roles That the Sun becomes incarnate there's so many of his arguments that are based upon Approaching the

54:38

Sun as the incarnate one not even recognizing the plainly biblical teaching that there is a difference

54:45

Temporally and historically between the logos who becomes flesh and the logos prior to entrance into flesh

54:55

It's extremely frustrated that just again If I could we got to find out who we need to find someone who can make these and put them on a

55:05

Trophy stand. Okay with a little Bic lighter up front, you know, you know, I mean with a little plaque on it that says

55:14

Strawman award given to and then we can have it put on there and we could send these to people like Dale Tuggy No, wait, no, it's someone could do this trust me someone someone

55:29

Well, we would have to mass -produce them. That's I that's yeah, that's the point you're making. Yes, we would not be able to keep up with the demand but He would have to be given

55:41

Numerous, he would have to have gotten ten of them just for this one debate Dr.

55:47

Tuggy would have Because it's just our very definition

55:53

Says it was the son who became incarnate not the father. Oh, there's a difference. No Trinity That's the kind of argumentation if dr.

56:01

Tuggy actually wants his arguments to be at all compelling to Orthodox Biblical Trinitarians he hasn't even tried to step up to that level really hasn't the rest of you know something he gets into all this

56:16

Philosophical quackery At other points that that completely begs the issue as well

56:22

But that kind of if there's just one simultaneous then there are two beings

56:29

That was extremely frustrating to listen to and he really

56:35

Does think that he provides compelling exegesis when he doesn't even begin the process of providing compelling exegesis?

56:43

it's sort of It makes sense given his background his training it's not it's not in exegesis

56:48

He's not an exegete by any stretch of the imagination But he believes that he believes that he is and presents himself in that way.

56:56

So the the Unitarians you know, they I guess a buzzards group was involved with this and helping to fund it and all the rest of stuff and They they all scratch each other's backs as far as that goes

57:09

But man, they just do not have almost anything there at all to go with they they just simply have to create a straw man ask certain questions and just ignore the weight of the biblical evidence the

57:22

Identification of Jesus is Yahweh the distinction between the father and the son you got a deal with that stuff

57:28

You can't just ignore it. You can't just take your philosophical categories and make that your foundation And that's exactly what what was going on in that very very frustrating thing to to listen to so I'm going to try to Remember on the next program next week

57:49

I want to look at that converts guide to becoming Catholic and then there's a article running around And again, it just plays on our lack of knowledge of history about the term

57:59

Homosexual and when it developed and all the rest that stuff And these articles play on the fact that even

58:09

Christians today are simply not Taught how to think logically and critically

58:16

That's where the problem lies and we must develop those those capacities

58:23

And so on so forth. So with that folks once again, thank you very very much for The support during the the podcast battle royale rich has his arms up in the in the other room

58:38

The crowds going wild in the other room anyways, and so hey, you know

58:45

Six months from now. It could be somebody else you just never know but for now, you know, we sort of were pioneers in this field as far as Podcasting we didn't know what podcasting was but we were doing it before anybody else was basically because we were poor so that's that's how it goes though.

59:05

Thanks for your support and Congratulations to summer enjoy and apology a radio and cultish and everybody else that was involved

59:12

It was a lot of fun and we'll look forward to the next time something like that So it comes up and we'll look forward to seeing you next week on the dividing line.