Pastor Matt Chandler Talks About White Privilege- Some Puerto Rican Responds

Hello, my name is Adam Robles, and today I wanted to respond and interact with a video that was produced by the Village Church. The video features Pastor Matt Chandler talking about the issue of white privilege.

And I thought it would be helpful to sort of interact with this viewpoint. As you will see, Matt Chandler is a white guy, probably the whitest guy you'll ever see. And the purpose of the video is not that I want to have a disagreement with a famous pastor, not that I want to instill any kind of suspicion on him.

I hope after you watch this video that you don't see all of his teaching as somehow suspect, because that's not the case. I probably agree with Matt Chandler on 90 of things. But I think he's wrong about this issue, and I wanted to talk about why I think that.

And I think also, you know, his heart is in the right place. He does seek to help race and ethnic issues in the United States right now. I think that's what his intention is. But actually, I think the way he presents white privilege doesn't do that.

In fact, I think it does the opposite. I think understanding what is called white privilege in the way that Matt Chandler does actually hurts minorities. And so that's why I wanted to do this interaction.

You know, again, it's not from a place of I just want to, you know, insult a pastor. It's nothing like that. I just think that, you know, it is possible to disagree with someone in a respectful and loving way with the same goals, because I think that Matt Chandler and I have the same goals, ultimately.

And so I wanted to sort of interact with this a little bit. I'm going to start and stop. It's a very short video, but I'm going to start and stop and talk about some of the points here. And so, you know, let's just get right to it.

White Privilege as a Cultural Experience, Not Overt Racism

So growing up, here's what that looked like for me. When I sat in school growing up and learned about the history of the United States of America, I opened up our books. I had to write reports. I saw in those books and read the stories of and wrote reports on people who looked like me.

And then when I turned on the television, by and large, at any moment in time, when I turned on the television, what I saw was people who looked like me. And then when I got magazines or when I got books or when I played with toys or what I saw repeatedly were people that looked like me.

At almost any given moment, I was surrounded by people who looked almost just like me. And so really the entire experience of my life has been one of I can easily find people that look like me. Almost all my understanding of what made America great is because of efforts and the work ethic of people like me.

And I come from a lower class Anglo family. And so my story is kind of the American dream, pulled myself up by my bootstraps, worked hard, learned to work hard from my daddy, yada, yada, yada. Right. I could go on and on there.

But what happens in that kind of upbringing, which is fine, is that there were some lenses put over my eyes in which I saw the world through those lenses, not knowing what those lenses are. And so if I could kind of just be straight at what I'm talking about is that I have grown up with this invisible kind of bag of privilege, this kind of invisible toolkit that I can reach in there at any given moment and have this type of privilege that a lot of other brothers and sisters don't have, don't.

OK, so this is where I want to start. He talks about this invisible bag of privilege that he has. And, you know, I don't know how old Matt Chandler is, but I would imagine that we're pretty similar in age.

He's probably not that much older than I am. So, you know, I think we probably played with the same kind of toys. We probably watched the same TV shows. We probably read the same newspapers and magazines and stuff.

And, you know, so our upbringings from a media perspective, from a cultural perspective, we're somewhat similar, I would assume. And I can't help but thinking when I when I hear this is all of these things that he mentioned seem really trivial to me.

You know, the toys that we play with, the TV shows that we watch. I mean, I'm not denying that they can't have some kind of a formative influence on how you see the world as an adult. But, you know, is this really what we're talking about when we talk about white privilege?

Because all of those things, except for he mentions history and doing book reports and learning about the world, that one's less trivial. But but the toys and these things, is this really what we're talking about?

Because I don't think that's what most people are talking about when they're talking about white privilege. Most people are talking about sort of this institutional, you know, all of our systems, all of our institutions are inherently set up to favor white people.

That's what most people are talking about. That's a lot more serious of a charge. And so I thought it was kind of odd how he talks about these things that are just they seem very trivial to me. And that's his example of sort of this white privilege.

But we'll we'll talk more about that in a little bit.

Possess. And so what happens when you have my upbringing and even my current reality is that you're forced to, if you're not careful, if you don't let the gospel kind of purify your heart, if you don't lean on the word of God to shape your understandings, you begin to judge harshly those who can't quite get to where you are.

So I don't understand what that has to do with toys and TV shows. Right. So if you're judging harshly other ethnicities is essentially what he's going to say. That's a that's a problem. And we want to address that.

But I don't really know what that has to do with the toys that you played with or the TV shows that you watched, because, again, I've watched the same TV shows I've watched. I played with the same toys and this kind of judgmental harshness.

I wasn't I didn't grow up with that. So it's something else that's at play here. I don't know what the toys and the different things that he mentions have to do with it.

And you will begin to see that getting people to where you are is what's normative. And so if I could just kind of lay it all out there, what I'm talking about right now is white privilege. And so I listen.

And I know some of you are already reaching to kind of click out. Nothing makes Anglos more angry than the idea of white privilege.

But let's just talk first. Yeah, I think that's true. Probably nothing makes white people more antsy than than this idea of white privilege. And I think obviously so, because, you know, when people are talking about white privilege, they're talking about it in such a way that it's almost like the ultimate sin.

Right. Because they're not talking typically about the toys that you played with in the TV shows that you watch. You're talking about this sort of collective guilt that white people have because they set up a system that favors them.

And not just with the toys that they play with, with like, you know, economic policy and things like that. This is this is a much more serious conversation than he kind of initially presents it as. And so, yeah, people do get uppity that the idea in the secular culture is that even if you aren't racist, even if you don't do anything or think anything racist, you're still sort of guilty because of the color of your skin.

And that's why I think, you know, white people get all antsy and they get all upset about it because it's a serious charge. And so that being said, if you're white and you were watching this, this video, resist the urge to just shut it off, because I know you're used to seeing the crazy lunatics that, you know, they'll shout you down and say you don't have an opinion because you're a white male.

You don't get to talk. I know you see that out there. That is out there. But that's not what this is and not and you won't get that every time. So I would recommend that whenever you see someone talking about this, take a deep breath, swallow hard and and just hear them out, because you're not always going to get the insanity that you see out there.

And I know it's out there. So let's not deny that. There are a lot of crazy ideas regarding white privilege out there, but not all of them are crazy. And so I would recommend that you continue to listen to Matt Chandler or anybody, really.

If you'll give me just just a second. So white privilege isn't overt racism, right? Instead, it's just this unique kind of experience of life and predominant culture.

OK, this is where this is, I think, the linchpin of this entire video. He says that white privilege isn't overt racism. And I agree. I think that that's a good thing to say. But the way he kind of presents that, I wonder if he thinks that it is a kind of racism, just not overt racism, because that's the idea in secular culture.

Right. So in secular culture, they'll admit that most white people aren't overtly racist. Right. There are some, of course, but most whites aren't. But yet they're still culpable of a racism. And maybe it's an implicit, inherent racism.

Maybe it's just a bias that they don't even know they have, but they're still guilty of. That's a very popular idea. And it sounds to me like that's kind of where he's going. But he doesn't say so. So I don't want to put that idea on him.

But kind of the way he said it's not overt racism kind of makes me think I wonder if it is a kind of racism. And I don't think that it is. I think that just being part of the majority culture, there's nothing to be ashamed of.

You're not guilty of anything because of that. And so, you know, I just I wonder what he means. I wish he would have explained a little further. He says that it's sort of this unique experience. And I guess that's true.

But that's true of anybody. Right. So I was talking to a friend online and I asked, I said, so should should Ethiopians in Ethiopia be angsty about their black privilege? Right. Because that's the majority culture in Ethiopia.

Should Koreans be worried about their Korean privilege in Korea? I mean, I don't I mean, I don't think that's anything to worry about. That just seems to be the reality. So in Korea, for example, I would imagine all of the toys that Korean children play with probably have Koreans on them.

Kids books in Ethiopia probably have black people in them. Right. So that's not a sin. You know, that's not a sin unless you take it to the next level and start judging people based on the fact that they're not part of the majority culture.

If you do that, that is the sin of partiality. But the privilege itself, if defined how he defines it, of course, the privilege himself isn't a sin. And so it's not overt racism. But is it something that is race racism of some kind?

He doesn't say, but that's what a lot of people say. And so when you put out a video like this, you know, I don't blame white people for interpreting it according to what they already know. These terms have been defined in culture.

And so you're presenting a different definition. But you've got to be very clear about it. And I didn't think that he was there.

Majority-Culture History and the Problem of Partiality

Again, let's go back and talk about it. Growing up throughout your history books, if you learned anything other than white people built and made America great. It was during the month of February. It was condensed and it was kind of a millimeter of depth.

So I don't know what school Matt Chandler went to, so I'm not going to deny that this happened. But, you know, believe it or not, not every school has a unit that says, you know, white people are great and white people have created everything good in America.

My school didn't do that. So I mean, I imagine that his school didn't either. You know, when I when I heard this, I started thinking about, you know, when I was younger and we learned about the Revolutionary War.

We learned about the founding fathers and it wasn't presented to me as look at these founding fathers. Look at their whiteness. It's so great. And look at how great white people are. That's not how it was presented.

It was presented. Here's George Washington. Here's Thomas Jefferson. And you know what? They're white. That was never told to me, but they just were white. I mean, that's just the reality. So just because we're talking about the founding fathers and none of them were black.

Does that mean that we're excluding blacks from the conversation? No, not necessarily. It just is the truth, the reality of the situation that the founding fathers of the country were white. And there's nothing wrong with that.

So, you know, believe it or not, a lot of people don't think in these terms. Right. If you want to. To me, this is interesting because it kind of it's a good argument to take your kids out of public school.

Right. Because public school is going to teach what the government wants them to teach. It's going to be government history. And in America, the government has been primarily white. So if you have a problem with the government schools teaching government history, I would suggest take them out of that school and give them a more holistic education.

So I don't know. I mean, I don't think anybody really learns how great white people are. No, they just learn about the various characters in American history. And many of them happen to be white. It would be the same in Korea.

It would be the same in Ethiopia. Right. So if you had an Ethiopian history class, it'd be all black people probably. And then they'd have probably a few units on Europeans and Italians. And then is that excluding the contributions white people?

I don't understand. So I don't know. That's not that's an interpretation of reality. That's not reality. Right. I reject that interpretation. I reject the fact that you learn about the founding fathers and they're all white.

That automatically means that you're excluding blacks. It doesn't mean that.

That's an interpretation that I think is very debatable of really what other kind of ethnicities contributed to what's now modern day America. And even if you are and then when you open up your newspaper, you grab a magazine, you're going to see Anglos portrayed mostly in a positive sense.

Right. If you go to buy your kids. Well, that's actually changing. And this is so interesting to me because foundationally, this identitarian identity politics, this this ethnic identity issue foundationally, there's not a difference between the people that have the black identity politics, Hispanic identity politics, and then the alt-right.

There's no foundational difference because here's the thing about this. The alt-right attacks the media constantly. And why do they do that? Why would the alt-right white nationalists attack the media if the media always in general presented them in a positive light?

The reason they do it is because that's not the case anymore. So that used to be the case. Maybe let's let's say let's just accept his argument that that's how it was. That's not the case anymore. White people read the newspapers and they look online and media and they're presented in a negative light constantly, constantly.

And that's what the alt-right fights against. They see that. They see it happening. They're like, yeah, I don't want to I don't want to be put in this situation that they worry. The alt-right worries about the non-white privilege that's coming.

They see it coming and they worry about that. So I think the church just needs to discard all this stuff. The church needs to discard this identity game. White privilege, Hispanic privilege, Puerto Rican privilege, you know, all this stuff.

This just needs to be discarded. This is not something that is according to the gospel. Right. This is divisive. Inherently so. Because there will always be a majority culture. Right. And if being part of the majority culture kind of makes you in some way sort of implicitly racist, the way the secular world says, this is a recipe for a never ending conflict.

There's no harmony ever because there will always be a majority culture. So it's just interesting that he talks about that because that's changing for white people and they see it and they're getting angsty.

And that's why the alt-right is growing, because they want to play the identity politics game, too.

It's toys or go to buy them a little book. It's going to be pretty easy to just find kids that look like them on the cover. So we don't know what it's like to have to look around Barnes and Nobles for 15 minutes trying to find a book about a little girl growing up that looks like our little girl.

Or like a little boy growing up that looks like our little boy.

Choosing Books by Quality, Not Ethnicity

This is something that I think is so interesting as well, because he presents this as you have to if you're black or you're Hispanic, you have to spend 15 minutes in Barnes and Nobles looking for a book that looks like your child.

No, you don't. No, you don't. Because that's a choice. Right. Because here's the thing. When I go to the store, the bookstore, I'm not searching far and wide to find a Puerto Rican book to show to my kids.

Right. No, I'm finding a book that I think is good, that they'll enjoy. Doesn't matter what the race of the kids are in the book. Right. Because to me, I don't think that way. And I don't want to teach my children to think that way.

Right. Personally, that's my choice. I don't think it's wrong if you want to find a book with a little black girl because your family's black or Hispanic or Chinese or whatever. I don't think that's wrong.

If that's how you want to raise your kids, that's up to you. You know, there's nothing in the Bible that says that that's wrong. But you don't have to do that. That's a choice. Right. Because biblically speaking, we know that, you know, and Matt's going to say this later in the video, which is a great section of the video.

There's only two races. There's the sons of Adam and the sons of Christ. And so that's how I'm going to present things to my children. I'm not going to ignore ethnicities, but I'm not going to teach them to, you know, hey, you know, when we're reading our books, we're going to go seek out the ones that, you know, look like you and act like you.

Personally, I think that's counterproductive. Right. If I'm trying to live in the light of the reality of Christ reconciling the ethnicities, then I think it's counterproductive to only buy, you know, black G .I. Joes for black kids or only Hispanic G .I. Joes for Hispanic kids.

You know, so he presents us as this privilege. And, you know, if you're black and you have to spend so much time, no, you don't. That's a choice that you're making. And if you want to do it that way, that's up to you.

But you don't have to do it that way. And so, you know, again, in Korea, that's the same situation. So if you're white in Korea, do you have to spend an hour looking for white books? If that's how you want to spend your time, I guess that's up to you.

We've never had to struggle with that. We don't get anxious every time we open up a newspaper about how we'll be portrayed. We don't. These are aspects of it. Yes, they do.

And that's changing. White people are anxious about how they will be portrayed. I saw this funny, hilarious article the other day that the flavor, get this, the flavor pumpkin spice is an example of white privilege.

That's what we're facing. It's insanity in the secular culture. And so, yeah, white people do open up their newspapers and say, hmm, I wonder what I'm going to be blamed for today. That happens all the time.

See, I wonder, you know, how often you've actually listened to alt-right videos or white nationals videos. And I'm not talking about people telling you what the alt-right says. I'm not saying how often have you watched Ben Shapiro tell you what the alt-right's saying or Joe Carter.

I'm not asking, you know, if you've read the Joe Carter article on alt-right. I'm asking, have you ever heard the alt-right? Have you listened to Red Ice TV? It's despicable stuff, right? It's despicable.

But this is the stuff that they talk about. This is the stuff that they worry about. So to say that we don't ever do that, no, that's changing. That's what the alt-right is. So this is identitarian identity politics.

Let's discard it because it's poison on both sides, whether you're white or black.

The Race of Adam and the Race of Christ

It's an invisible air that we breathe, the type of lens that we wear. So what happens is when things blow up, we can look at African-Americans or Asians or Hispanics. And because of the lenses in which we wear and how we've been shaped by this invisible force, we tend to expect, why can't they just?

Why won't they? And what we're saying in that moment is we're harshly judging. And we're expecting, if they would just look like us, if they would just do what we've done, then none of this would happen.

Man, what kind of friends do you have? Because that's awful, right? I get to say, man, if, you know, let me say this. I'm 35 years old, and I have literally never, you know, besides like the really crazy lunatics out there, like the KKK, like the neo-Nazi types, I have literally never heard a decent person say, man, if only they could just look like me and do what white people have done, everything would be okay.

I've never heard it. Because that's just racist. That's overt racism. See, that's what's so interesting. See, the definitions are fuzzy here because he started this thing off talking about white privilege and how it's not overt racism.

And then the biggest example, the most, in my opinion, evil example that he gives is just, frankly, overt racism. To say that everything would be okay if just everyone had the same skin color or looked just like me, that's just the definition, textbook, run-of-the-mill, garden-variety racism.

So I find that confusing. Is he talking about white privilege or is he talking about racism? Because I want to stand with Matt Chandler against the kind of racism that he just talked about. But that's not white privilege, right?

That's not what we were talking about before, about the toys and the TV shows and the history book reports and stuff like that. That's not the same thing. And so it's confusing. And so in the culture, we see the culture saying that white privilege is bad.

It should be apologized for. It should be atoned for. They even set up websites where you can atone for your white guilt by donating money or something like that. That's what we see in the culture. And then we see Matt Chandler here saying, okay, well, this white privilege is growing up in the majority culture.

And then you end up saying, if you just look like me, that's racism. If I heard somebody say that, I would call that out as overt racism. That's not something that a Christian can do. But a Christian can be part of the majority culture without sin.

So confusing. I thought that was the most confusing part of the video. And again, this is why people reach for the mouse button to click out, because they're like, I'm sick of being told that my skin is something to be ashamed of, something to atone for.

Anyway. It's a really kind of terrible, judgmental place to sit. And so what we want is we want the truth of God's word and the beauty of the gospel to wash over us. We don't need to feel bad about our experience in the predominant culture.

We just need to be aware of it so it doesn't shape how we interact with the world around us. We know that when all is said and done, there are sons of Adam and sons of God, right? There are those who have sinned and are outside the covenant promises.

And there are those that have been bought by the blood of Christ and are inside the covenant promises. So that when all is said and done, there's the race of Adam and the race of Christ. And we're going to identify with the race of Christ regardless of skin color.

And so what we want is we want to live in such a way that shows that we understand that God has brought together in Christ men and women for every tribe, tongue, and nation on earth. Every ethnicity, every language, every culture, and has created a new culture of mutual submission and joy in the differences found in one another as it rounds us out more as the people of God.

Rejecting Identity Politics in the Church

That's the end of the video, and that last section was awesome. I completely agree with much of what he said because he's a great Bible teacher, right? He understands theology, understands the gospel.

There's no question about that. And so, well said. But we will never ever get there if we're going to be accepting these divisive things that the culture produces. We're going to offer support for these ideas of white privilege and then identitarian politics being valid in some ways but invalid in others.

Let's just be honest. Black and Hispanic identitarian politics, they're accepted in the church. They're accepted elsewhere. White identitarian politics are not. And that's partiality. They're either both wrong or they're both right.

I would say that they're both wrong. This identitarian politics stuff is poison to the gospel. It's antithetical to the gospel as well. So we'll never be able to live in light of Christ's reality of the ethnicities being reconciled to himself in one church if we're talking about stuff like white privilege where it's just this ambiguous sort of, is it sin?

Is it not? I'm not really sure. Is my skin color responsible? Does my skin color hold me responsible for these supposedly racist systems that are at play here? That's what a lot of white people say or hear being said in the media constantly.

And so I don't know if this helps this video because it's also very fuzzy. The definitions have kind of been kind of mixed up, right? He admits that white privilege is not overt racism. He seems to say that it's not wrong to have white privilege.

But then he says it leads to this place of judgment, this place of judging by skin tone, which is definitely wrong, which is definitely overtly racist. So I want to see that I have the same goals as Matt Chandler.

That last section, that's my goal as well. But we can only do it if we offer the world something completely different. We cannot accept. See, this is the thing. We have much more to offer the world than sort of a lukewarm acceptance of their categories, right?

We have something completely different. Yes, we can acknowledge ethnicities, but there's one race, one race in the church. And that's the race of Jesus Christ. It's a new nation. It's a new group. And that's what we have to offer.

It's completely different than the world's categories. There is no room for identity politics in the body of Christ. And so we should just reject it. We should just get rid of it. That's why in my other video I was talking about we should stop talking about racism and start talking about partiality, because that's a sin in the body of Christ.

If someone's being partial, we should accuse them of partiality and we should fix it. We should stop that. But this idea of white privilege, white supremacy, and things like that, where it's just very fuzzy and vague, and even the stuff about white church and white evangelicalism these days, we need to discard it.

Because we'll never get to that vision that Matt Chandler just talked about. We'll never get there if we continue to talk that way. Anyway, I wanted to end there. Love Matt Chandler, like I said. I hope that he continues to put videos out there because I think that he's a great teacher and I would recommend listening to him on almost anything.

And I hope this disagreement was in a cordial, respectful, and graceful way. God bless.