News Roundup: Our Daily Bread, NAE, CToday, Nazarenes, RCC, ELCA, & More

We are live on the Conversations That Matter podcast. We have a big episode for you today. We're gonna be talking about a number of Christian organizations and denominations, tracing some of the compromise, refuting some of the compromise beliefs that we're gonna be talking about, and hopefully giving you some encouragement for what comes next.

It's all straight ahead on the Conversations That Matter podcast. Well, welcome, welcome, welcome once again. I hope you are having a wonderful Christmas season. I know I am. I had some snow this morning that was unexpected.

I didn't know that we were gonna have snow. It snowed all night. And of course, tomorrow it's gonna be 56 degrees and the snow will be gone. But before it went away, I said, you know what? While it's here, let's try to take a walk.

We have a local trail that they actually maintain pretty well. And so we took my little baby on a stroller and had a great time looking at the snow as it was already starting to melt. So as things progress, the weather's odd.

It's been odd. I suppose when I was a little kid, it seemed like you would get blizzards in sometimes October and it would stay pretty cold in December. And yeah, maybe it's the global warming. Maybe that's what it is.

I don't know.

I was actually looking up, someone posted a picture online of the blizzard of 1977 that affected not only the United States and parts of Western New York and Northern New York, but also Canada. And incredible pictures.

If you wanna get freaked out, if you're afraid of snow and blizzards and getting trapped, look up the blizzard of 77. It's insane. Of course, I wasn't here for it because I didn't exist yet. But I looked it up and during that ordeal, apparently on the West Coast, things were abnormally warm.

So go figure, right? The climate does change and not always related to carbon emissions, but I do digress. We are enjoying the snow and we're hoping that we have a snow on Christmas. Michael says, how dare you, global warming.

My apologies, by the way, to everyone who is waiting up. I had a few last minute details I had to take care of before the podcast. I do usually start, maybe I probably should change this. I usually do start somewhere in the zero to five minutes late, sometimes I start right on time.

But I do start usually around five minutes late or a few minutes late. And I've thought that that actually brings in more people.

You're waiting.

And I think other podcasts have intro videos and things that they play during that time. And I don't have that. Maybe I should have that. So that's a little bit of the reason. But this time, actually, I legitimately had some things I was trying to put together and I was having trouble putting them together, namely looking for a particular clip I wanted to play for you that I knew I saw and I couldn't locate it.

And it took me like 15 minutes to find it. So I found it finally, and we're going to play it for you. But we have a lot of clips to play for you today. So I should probably stop talking and start playing the clips.

Before we get into everything, which is gonna range, just so you know, from, I mean, we're gonna talk about, I had to clip it. We had more, there were more things that I could talk about, but I've been saving some of these things.

So we're gonna talk about Christianity Today. We're gonna talk about the National Association of Evangelicals. We're gonna talk about the Church of the Nazarene. We're gonna talk about Our Daily Bread.

What else? Man, the ELCA, we're gonna talk about them just a little bit. I thought about talking about a certain professor at Southeastern, but I decided, yeah, they've been getting enough pushback on X.

I'm not gonna talk about them.

They didn't make the cut.

And it's rare for Southeastern not to make the cut on this podcast, but just not important, guys. It's just not important. We have other things to talk about. And of course, a lot to talk about moving into the next week as well.

I got some shows prepared for you. By the way, I wanna say this. I need to say this because I don't say it enough. And I was listening to another podcast where the host does this, and I thought, it's just not me, but I should at least once in a while say what I heard them say, which is, if you like the podcast, go ahead and rate it on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Give it that five stars. Apparently, it does help the algorithm. And I think I'm just about at 1 ,000 reviews on iTunes. So if we're not there yet, push it over. Make it 1 ,000 by the end of the year.

I'd appreciate it. The other thing is, if you wanna support the work that I'm doing, and there are some big projects coming up for next year, and we've done a lot this year, but we've got some big stuff next year, you can go to Patreon.

And I'm looking into some alternatives for this, by the way. I just haven't found any. So if you decide to start supporting me on Patreon, then you will also get an announcement on Patreon. I'm not gonna drop Patreon, but if I find another in addition to alternative to it, because Patreon has dropped, apparently, some conservative folks, but I'm still safe and still there.

And you can go to patreon .com. Right now, it's forward slash worldview conversation. And that's where you can find me. And it looks like this. And I really appreciate it. It does help me. So I figured I would just make the pitch during this Christmas season, if you think that the Lord is compelling you to help.

And the work that I do, which a lot of it has been and still remains, identifying and refuting some of the error that we see in the evangelical church. A lot of that has been along the lines of social justice.

It will continue to be along those lines, as well as liberalism. I do have another book coming out very soon. I made my deadline Christmas. Patrons all know this, because I already announced it. But man, should I sneak peek the title?

Maybe I should. Maybe I should. It's gonna be called, this is the working title, at least, Against the Waves. And it's about recovering Christian order in an age of liberalism. So we're gonna talk about what a nation is, a call to masculinity, why we're in the place we are in the West on masculinity, and on not being able to define so many things.

We're gonna talk about the creation order and some of the tools of resistance to some of the influxes of liberalism and social justice that we see and how we can put a stop to it. There's a lot of stuff that I'm covering.

And this is my first attempt, I would say, in book form of forming a real positive vision, because I've written books on social justice, which are more concerned with understanding and refuting that error.

This is going to be more of a positive, there's gonna be a lot of refutation of error, but there's also a positive construction of here's in broad terms what a Christian should be working toward on a social level.

And I think that's important. It's easy to snipe at things from a position of supposed neutrality. And I'm not neutral and no one's neutral on their vision for the good. And so I want to present to you what I think, at least in broad terms, it's not comprehensive in every way, it can't be, it's a book, but a broad vision for the good.

And what I think is a biblical and rooted in creation, design, understanding of how to forge ahead in the midst of everything we have going on. So there's a few announcements for you. And like I said, I should probably stop talking.

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Happy ranching. All right, check it out, lorislunchbox .com. We are gonna talk today, like I said, about a number of different organizations. And the first one I wanna talk about is Our Daily Bread. I've had this on my list for a while.

Someone sent me, I think a few people might've sent me an article or it was a social media post actually that was put out there, now maybe it's two months ago, on a conference that Our Daily Bread was sponsoring.

And it's a woke conference. It's a conference that was promoted by, or it actually was hosted by The Witness. And it's a woke organization. I'll show you here. I've talked about them before. It says the third annual Joy and Justice Conference 2024.

And it's The Witness, the black Christian collective hosts them in Atlanta, Georgia. And this was actually, so it was more than two months ago. This was in October. Anyway, the important point of this isn't The Witness.

That's a known commodity. Jamar Tisby works with them. In fact, he was speaking with them. The guy who wrote The Color of Compromise. And I've talked about that book and refuted, I think, what are some of the core aspects of that book in my book, Christianity and Social Justice.

Anyway, the important thing is it is sponsored by Our Daily Bread Ministries. And I know a lot of you use Our Daily Bread. That's a popular devotional tool that people use because it has scripture, it's very short, and it usually tells a memorable story.

And I don't want to say you shouldn't necessarily use it. If it's helpful to you and you wanna continue using it, that's on you. That sounded pretty judgmental, didn't it? Like you're making a big error by doing this and it's on you.

I don't mean it that way. Like that's between you and the Lord is what I mean to say. Maybe it is on you if you're convicted about it and you're doing it anyway. I myself have never used it. I've read it before, but I've never used it as a devotional.

I rather go straight to scripture, that's me. I don't have a problem with devotionals, but it's shallow, it's a supplemental thing. It's not, I wouldn't wanna make it my main course. If that's all you have time for and that's what you're, you know, I get it, I get it.

But if you are paying money to this organization, and especially if you're a church that's buying these things in mass to give to your congregation, and now is the time of year because New Year's resolutions are coming.

Some people resolve to do their devotions every day. And this is one of the tools that's usually given out at churches say, they'll say, do the Our Daily Bread reading every day, resolve this year to do this.

And I would encourage you, if you're someone who's giving them a chump of change, maybe reconsider this. And it's not because all the content is necessarily bad in Our Daily Bread, but, and it's not just because of this, it's because this is actually part of the pattern.

And that's really the point I wanna make. And what I have to share with you is not necessarily everything there is to share on this. I didn't spend a whole lot of time, but I've just known for a little while that, yeah, of course Our Daily Bread has some compromise in it.

Well, what do you mean by that, John? Well, there's been subtle things like during the 2020 riots, they posted things like, merciful God, please help me trust you to determine how justice prevails, right?

Well, you think, well, that doesn't, come on, we don't know what they mean by it. Well, that's kind of the point. It's in a context and it should be assumed that, hey, this could be taken when everyone in the world is shouting about justice, how are they gonna take this?

Well, of course, there were a number of other things that were not as subtle that they put out there. And they seem to be pretty big on the BLM type woke stuff. Here's a few posts that I grabbed off of their ex accounts, learn how you can be persevering, sorry, have persevering faith by reading the stories of black history makers in Tell the Story.

This devotional features 40 scripture-based readings of strength and dignity that point to God's faithfulness. Now, there's a number of these kinds of things on the shoulder of giants for Black History Month, a reading plan, they have all these different special reading plans for special occasions and holidays and things, or I guess Black History Month isn't a holiday, it's a month of focus on black history.

And I don't really have a problem necessarily with doing a devotional on black history makers necessarily, but you gotta ask the question, why is it so lopsided? Why is it that this is explicit? And obviously they're not the organization that's alone in this, this is pretty much across the board.

That's a special thing, you're not allowed to talk about white history makers though, right? Like not, you can't frame it in those terms. And this is something that you should probably ask more when you see advertisements for, even like when you turn on your channel streaming service or I don't know, like I was even looking at, trying to remember what website it was, it was purchasing gifts or something and they had this whole section for, oh no, it was music, that's what it was,.

It was music,.

I had a free trial of the YouTube music thing, something I wouldn't pay for, but hey, I'll do a free trial. And they had mood. And so I clicked on mood to see what kind of moods. And the very first mood is Black Lives Matter.

I thought that's a mood, the sad, anxiety, relaxation, I mean, these are moods. No, the mood is, Black Lives Matter is apparently a mood now. And it's not only a mood, it is the first mood on the list of moods.

And so anyway, I thought that that was interesting and, oh wow, I'm getting a text as we speak, live on the show and about, wow, Woke Preacher Clips has gone after Sean McDowell. So I guess this is a new clip and someone's just sending it to me.

It's not for the show today, maybe we'll save it for another show, but apparently Sean McDowell is saying that power dynamics reduce Bathsheba's agency. Okay, interesting. I don't know if that's Sean McDowell or his guest, Carmen, is it Imes?

But yeah, all right, well, that's not for today's episode, but someone just texted me that, figured you should know. All right, Squirrel, let's get back to what we were talking about. Black Lives Matter is a mood, I thought that's very strange, but this is just par for the course.

It's like every organization, just about of any renown of any influence, the higher the level, the worse it is that you subscribe to, that you purchase, you give them your money. I mean, you get entertainment or music or materials, whatever you order from them, whatever service they provide, they're pushing this agenda on you.

And I don't like that, frankly, I'd rather not pay for that if I can avoid it. And so in our Christian organizations, how much less so should we put up with those kinds of things? And so anyway, there's an imbalance here, that there's a focus.

Why, you have to ask your, why is that focus there, right? Well, as we get deeper into it, it becomes more obvious. Yeah, there is a woke thing going on, there's a social justice thing going on. They have podcasts, Our Daily Bread is a podcast, not just the little pamphlet that you read every day, but they had one in, they've had actually a few, one of them's more recent with Christine Edmondson.

This was, I think, from this year. And then they had one with Christine Edmondson again, from 2020. And she was with Razzle Barry, both of them very woke, as like totally on the CRT BLM train, as much as you can be in Christian circles.

And Woke Preacher Clips has done a good job. By the way, Woke Preacher Clips just does a phenomenal job with their listening and finding clips and exposing. I mean, we don't have a lot of resources on our side of things.

And for someone like Woke Preacher Clips, who's not getting paid for it, to put some of this information out there. I know for a while, I was one of the only ones that was listening and clipping some of these things.

And Woke Preacher Clips has been really, I shouldn't say the only, because I'm sure there were others, but I was one of the more prominent ones, let's say who was listening and clipping a lot of podcasts for my podcast, clips of other podcasts, other presentations from major Christian organizations on a regular basis.

And they've come in and they've done a lot of that work. So anyway, they've shown where Christina Edmondson and Razzle Barry have said some pretty woke stuff. Like Razzle Barry thinks critical race theory is helpful.

And Christina Edmondson basically just goes on the CRT train that if you want to be faithful in your anti-racism, then you have this insurmountable debt you need to pay and do the best you can. She's pro reparations, all of that.

The episode, I think it's from this year that they did with Dr. Christine Edmondson is called Faithful Anti-Racism. So I haven't listened to it, but I would welcome anyone who wants to. Maybe Woke Preacher Clips can listen to it and take some clips from it.

But I don't think I need to, to figure out what's going on here. And this is from our Daily Breadth. Now, here's a bunch of, I thought this was interesting. I just, this is for curiosity's sake. I did a search.

Juneteenth. I just wanted to see, like, what do they say about Juneteenth? Do they celebrate Juneteenth? Do they have devotionals on Juneteenth? And sure enough, it's everywhere. Juneteenth is the holiday celebrating the freedom of our African-American brothers and sisters who were enslaved.

Today is a moment that speaks to the progress of our country but also the changes necessary for us to reflect the kingdom of heaven.

Oh, wow.

Okay, so this was a necessary change, I guess, to reflect the kingdom of heaven. And you have a number of other posts along these lines of Juneteenth. So I thought, well, if they're gonna celebrate Juneteenth, you know, they have multiple posts about it along these lines, then surely they have stuff about things like Veterans Day and Memorial Day and 4th of July.

So I checked it out and there was nothing for Memorial Day. There was nothing for Independence Day. Oh, I spelled Independence Day wrong. Maybe that's why. Wait, hold on. I spelled, I'm gonna take responsibility for that.

Let me go back. Let me, in real time here, let's check our Daily Bread and make sure that, I know I checked it a few times. So I'm assuming the other times I checked it, I did not spell it wrong, but I'm just noticing this right now.

Okay, independence. I'm gonna spell it right now. All right. Let's see if anything comes up. Okay, there actually are a few things that come up here. Not as many though. And these are not actually Independence Day posts.

These are not related to Independence Day. That's interesting. There are no results for Independence Day. All right, so I was right. So disregard what I actually, what I showed you in my misspelling here.

If you spell it right, you get the same results. They don't have results for Independence Day. Veterans Day, no results. 4th of July, one result from 2014. And they just mentioned it's a national holiday when outdoor grills are heated up.

That's, okay. That's our daily bread for you right there. So if you were wondering, how could our daily bread do this? I mean, they're just biblical devotionals. That's all they are. They're stories that go along with them.

They've been on this train for a little while. This isn't anything new, them sponsoring an event like this. And so, yeah, I would just encourage you, maybe find something else, find an alternative. I don't know what alternatives are out there to be quite frank with you, because I've never been in that, I'm in the market for a devotional, but I read, I try to read daily.

It's not always daily, but I do regularly read the Confessions by Augustine. I'll try to read something from classic Christian literature, along with a theological book. So I'm working my way slowly through this, the Messiah, the Prince, because someone gave this to me by William, is it Simington, I think is how you pronounce it.

And then of course I read, I'm reading through Isaiah right now. So that's what I've been doing. But if you're not someone who does that and you needed a devotional, maybe find an alternative. That's my suggestion.

And I'd be curious to see recommendations, if some of you out there in the chat have good recommendations for a good devotional. Like I said, I'm not against them. Someone says, Azure says, there was a Christian shooting in Madison, Wisconsin.

Okay, so I don't know about this. Let's see, looking it up, shooting reported at Abundant Life Christian School one hour ago, man. Okay, I have not seen this. This is the first I'm looking at it. So I guess I, yeah, let's, man, I don't wanna look at CNN.

We'll do Fox, I guess. Fox News has a breaking report here. Shooting leaves two dead, six injured. Two people were killed and six others were injured in a school shooting in Madison, Wisconsin on Monday with police saying the suspected shooter was found dead at the scene.

During an update Monday afternoon, Madison police chief, Sean Barnes, said a teacher and his teen student were killed. Barnes added that two students are also in critical condition. Let's see, I don't know that we know anything else about this, but it was at a Christian school.

Oh man, I'm not seeing any details about motive or anything like that. Just pray for them. Prayers requested. Today we had an active shooter, says the school. All right, pray for Abundant Life Christian School in Madison, Wisconsin.

And I'm sure we'll get more details in the coming days about that. Thank you for letting me know that Azure. I appreciate it. All right, well, let's move on then. We talked about our daily bread a little bit.

At least I've warned you that you might not wanna give your money to them as much. This is gonna be short, but Christianity Today. I noticed this because someone posted, I think William Wolfe was the one who posted this online.

It's a screenshot from their podcast. I listened to about half of it and it's so subtle, but I think it's worth mentioning. So the Bulletin is the name of the podcast. It is sponsored by Christianity Today.

And the title of the episode is called Neighborhood Threat. And they have these tanks coming down the street and oh, it's very scary, right? Well, here's the description. And Russell Moore's on this, Beth Moore's on this.

I think they had one other person. It might've been Mike Cosper, I'm not sure. They're all on this episode. So as Beth Moore joins us to talk about the quote, bad guys unquote of New York City. Now, who would those be?

The bad guys in New York City? Elphaba, Daniel Penny, and Luigi Mangione. Now, I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. Or yeah, Mangione. Now, Luigi Mangione, of course, was the one who shot the CEO of, was it United Healthcare, I think?

And of course is rightly in trouble for this. And there's conspiracy theories about it. And I'm not convinced by them at this point, but he's making a statement. He has his reasons for why he's doing this.

So he murdered someone. Now, at least that's, based on the information we have so far, that's what it looks like. Now, to put Daniel Penny in that category, the same category, this reminds me of the Gospel Coalition, what they did a few years ago, when they put Kyle Rittenhouse in the same category as Dylann Roof.

They take someone who actually murders people, who is in sin, violent, and then they compare that to someone who's defending himself or defending someone else. And there's no excuse for this. There's absolutely no excuse for this.

Daniel Penny has been exonerated. Daniel Penny did not murder anyone. Daniel Penny was acting in self-defense. That's not murder. And more than self-defense, actually even something more noble in a way, he's trying to defend other people.

And to compare that to someone who in cold blood shoots the CEO of a company is just, there's no excuse. I don't have words. But that's where Christianity today is at. And that is where much of the modern left is at.

They're at the same place. Beth Moore is at the same place. And for those who don't see it, I don't know what to tell you. I mean, this has been going on for a long time. They're showing their true colors.

Believe them, believe them when they show these kinds of things. Now, I wanna talk a little bit about the Nazarene, the Church of the Nazarene. And the reason, I'm not a Nazarene, but someone sent me a number of screenshots and information about this.

I checked him out. And I know they had a guy named Jim Ord. I've talked about him before, who's been a problem in the Church of the Nazarene. And luckily, I shouldn't say luckily, in God's providence, of course, he was essentially defrocked or kicked out of the denomination because he was pushing hard for homosexuality and transgenderism and this kind of thing.

And fortunately, the Church of the Nazarene still has some standards. But I remember when I went out, I think I did two podcasts on this, and I mentioned it in the last podcast. And I said, good for the Church of the Nazarene.

I had some folks in the comments saying, look, I'm in the Church of the Nazarene. Don't get your hopes too high here. They've got problems. And good that they did this, but the foundation's cracking. Well, this may be some of the evidence for that.

And I wanted to show you this. I'm told, of course, I'm not a Nazarene, and I haven't looked into the Nazarene denomination deeply. So I'm relying on someone else who's given me good information in the past.

But they told me that this particular pastor, who is a pastor, Joel Tooley, at a Church of the Nazarene church down in Florida, that he is influential in the denomination. Now, one of the things I wanted to say about this, because I was looking online and I saw, Joel Tooley doesn't have a lot of followers on his social media.

But you know, in a lot of these denominations, that's the case, whether it's the Church of the Nazarene, or even the Southern Baptist, which is the largest Protestant denomination, I'll sometimes talk about an influential figure who no one's ever heard of.

If you look at the, what's the name of the denomination, the big denomination out in the Midwest, I'm blanking on the name now of it. I'm gonna be talking to some guys in that denomination in the next few days too.

So I don't know why I'm blanking on this, but anyway, denomination out there in the Midwest, they're big on washing each other's feet and that kind of thing, I'm pretty sure. Someone's gonna tell me in the comments, tell me what denomination, this is a quiz.

I know what the denomination is, I'm just quizzing all of you. It might be a Brethren denomination, I'm thinking, is it the Brethren denomination? Anyway, smaller denomination. And they, I remember just from years ago, looking at one of their events, they had a speaker, he was woke, and I thought, this guy doesn't, no one knows who this guy is.

Well, he was big in the denomination though, he was a mover and shaker, and that's just so common in these smaller denominations. You have a denomination that may have thousands of churches in it, at the very least hundreds of churches, and the people at the top can exert a lot of authority.

Think about that, I mean, you are putting out a message to all these churches, whether there's a strong hierarchy or not, you're essentially giving them marching orders. And you don't, you can do it subversively, you could do it under the radar.

This is a big deal, and I realize this more and more, there's this great opportunity out there for people, they really wanna have an influence and make an impact. Doesn't really take a lot of work, you just have to, you have to get into these positions, you have to, maybe it takes some work on the front end, but you have to go through the proper channels and get to a point where it's not a point many people are looking at, but it has tremendous influence.

And so anyway, the Brethren Church, yeah, I don't think it's the Brethren, I don't think it is. I mean, I'm trying to remember what denomination I'm thinking of, and it's slipping my mind, but Brethren Church would be a good example of it too.

So would the Methodist Church, so I mean, there's so many positions even in the Southern Baptist that no one's ever heard of the people in these positions, but they exert tremendous amount of authority because it's a parallel kind of managerial kind of structure, it's like a deep state.

You have all these people who no one's heard of, but they're making curriculum decisions for the denomination and that kind of thing. Evangelical Free Church, I think that's the one I'm thinking of. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is.

Okay, now that I thought of it, Evangelical Free Church. Brethren, Evangelical Free Church, I don't live in the Midwest, so I don't, I'm used to passing when I drive around and where I live now, which is very different than where I used to live in Virginia, where I was passing Southern Baptist churches.

Now I pass Dutch Reformed churches and Anglican churches and Methodist churches that pretty much all have rainbow flags, and it's the saddest thing, or trans flags now, right? I saw one today, it's a Anglican church, had two trans flags, so one is not enough.

They used to have a Ukrainian flag with a trans flag, and now they don't even have the Ukrainian flag, it is two trans flags. And it's interesting in these New England towns, you will drive through a town and sometimes not see any of those kinds of symbols.

There will be no BLM stuff, there'll be no trans stuff, except the church. The church is the one place you can almost every time find it. I kid you not, some of you think I'm joking, you think that's crazy, that is the Northeast for you.

The center of religious activity is still the church in many of these towns, or at least the building that they call a church, but it is taken over by another religion. So let's keep going, so all that to say, what denomination are we talking about?

The Nazarenes, Church of the Nazarene, and there are some Nazarenes, by the way, because Church of the Nazarene has a seminary actually in New York State, Nyack. A lot of Nyack folks go to the Church of the Nazarene and serve as pastors and other things.

But one of their main seminaries has decided to take on a climate change initiative. So I was looking at that and I thought, we're gonna get back to Joel Tule here, but I was looking at that and this is recent, this is this month, Nazarene Theological Seminary was awarded, and they're in the Midwest, I think, somewhere, but they were awarded the climate change, climate science, rather, and theological education grant by the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

The initiative aims to equip emerging and current Christian leaders with a deeper understanding of climate science and the tools to address climate issues thoughtfully and faithfully. And so they're advertising this, they're excited about this, and in an article about it, they tell you who's in charge, Dr. Josh Sweden, and professor of church history, and Derek Davis, associate dean of the academic programs.

And they want faculty forums to integrate climate science into coursework, they want the creation of a video resource for pastors, they want to distribute via NTS's Praxis platform, which I think is their video platform.

This is how things, by the way, get into your denominations, this is how it works. A special event on creation care in partnership with the NTS, Grider Winget Lectures, meaning that you have this denomination that is being, they've gotten a grant, they've acquired a grant from a secular organization, and it's an organization that they took the wrong side, as far as I could tell, on the COVID stuff, they're pushing the climate change stuff, and they've given this seminary money, essentially, to push the climate change narrative in their denomination.

And this is just, this is what Megan Basham talked about in her book, Shepherds for Sale, right? She said, of course, this stuff's going on. Now, the thing about the Nazarenes is they've been doing this for a while, and that's where I want to talk a little bit about this particular pastor, Joel Tooley, who I'm told is somewhat influential, even though I thought he didn't have that big of a following.

He's on the evangelical immigration table, he's the lead pastor of First Church of the Nazarene in Melbourne, Florida, he's an immigration advocate, according to the evangelical immigration table. And if you just look at him up online, there's a number of stuff about him.

There's an article from as early as 2017, where it says, pastor busted after making misleading Trump rally claims, where apparently Tooley had talked about there being an angry mob at a Trump rally that he went to, and apparently that wasn't the case.

But he's on the immigrant question, the Haitian immigrants, this is from this year, he is encouraging people to vote in a pro-immigrant way, whatever that means. We are mobilizing Haitian American communities to find every eligible voter to get registered to vote.

And they're not eating the dogs and cats, none of that's happening. They've talked, well, it's him and his wife, I guess, who have the ministry website, so I'm not bringing his wife into it, he's made her part of the public, or she's made herself, I don't know, part of the public face of this, but they had a walk that they were part of, let's see, it's a immigration and children's rights walk, the goal is to collectively walk the distance that many children walk 1 ,500 miles from Guatemala to the USA.

Okay, well, and they encourage you to, this is sponsored by Mosaic Compassion, which is a Nazarene refugee ministry, their election guide they posted from World Relief. These organizations are so connected so often.

World Relief is the organization, Megan Basham talks about them in her book, that took a lot of money from the government to resettle refugees, and that's one of the reasons they were opposed to Trump, because that would be bad for business.

And this is the organization Russell Moore and David French recently said, you gotta pray for them, because the Trump administration is gonna be bad for them. So there you go, that's what's going on, that's been going on in the Nazarene denomination.