May 20, 2021 Show with Dr. Nathan Busenitz on “Forerunners of the Faith”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 20th day of May 2021.

I'm thrilled to have back as a returning guest today, Dr. Nathan Busenitz, and Dr. Busenitz is such a kind brother that he never even corrected me during our last interview for mispronouncing his name.

I was calling him Dr. Nathan Busenitz, and I just was informed that the correct pronunciation is Busenitz. So Dr. Nathan Busenitz, who is Dean of Faculty and Associate Professor of Theology at the Master's Seminary, the seminary founded by John MacArthur, he is going to be addressing today one of his books, Forerunners of the Faith, 13 Lessons to Understand and Appreciate the Basics of Church History.

We're also going to be announcing the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, which is being held September 30th through October 2nd, where Dr. Nathan Busenitz is on the roster with over 20 speakers, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Nathan Busenitz.

Good to be back on the show, so thanks for having me back.

Oh, it's great to have you back on the show, and tell our listeners something about the Master's Seminary.

Yeah, the Master's Seminary might be encouraging for your listeners to know that there are Christians on the West Coast.

They obviously don't vote.

Well, we're outnumbered, but we see men trained.

And I want to give the website for that seminary. It's tms .edu, tms, for the Master's Seminary, dot edu. And a couple of my friends have graduated from that seminary, that fine institution. One of them long before your time, Pastor Chris Pandolfi, very good friend of mine who's now pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Medford, Long Island, New York, and also Matt Tarr.

Are you familiar with Matt Tarr?

Yeah, sure, I know Matt. In fact, he's just a great guy.

Oh, he's a great guy, and I look forward to him returning to the program. In fact, since I think so highly of Pastor Matt, let me give you a plug for his church. It's High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania.

And the website for that church is highpointbaptist .com, highpointbaptist .com. And they also have highpointbaptist .church as a URL, highpointbaptist .church. And I strongly recommend, if you are visiting the Larksville, Pennsylvania area, or if you live in that area, to pay that church a visit, and even join it if you are living locally.

I have nothing but the highest regards and recommendations for Pastor Matt and High Point Baptist Church. I'm sure there's many other people that I know that graduated from the Master's Seminary that I didn't even know that aspect of their lives.

But certainly John MacArthur is one of my greatest living heroes, and Grace Community Church and all that comes out of that fine congregation is a blessing to me greatly. Well, we are going to be discussing today your book on Forerunners of the Faith, 13 Lessons to Understand and Appreciate the Basics of Church History.

And actually, before we go into that topic, tell us something about how you got in contact with Josh Bice, who is the founder of the G3 Conference. He's also pastor of Praise Mill Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia, not far from Atlanta.

And I'm very happy that you are once again on the roster of that conference, the G3 Conference. Well, I will be manning a Iron Trip and Zion Radio Exhibitor's booth for the fourth year in a row. So how did this all come about for you?

Yeah, thanks. Christine is all about one of the... And also, thank you for your part.

Yeah, it has been an extraordinary blessing to me every year, not only because of the speakers that are all so gifted and thoroughly equipped to expound and exegete the scriptures and the music that they provide, but also the fellowship, not only reuniting with friends, some of whom I have not seen for many years, even some of my friends that I had from Long Island, New York, who fly into Georgia that I have not seen in years, who were among my very first friends as a Christian.

Also making new friends and meeting people that I have never met before who listen regularly to Iron Trip and Zion Radio. It's amazing how many people... When I go to the G3 Conference, people recognize my face from the website and from Facebook, I'm assuming, because I'll hear people yelling to me from far away in the crowds, Iron Trip and Zion!

Chris Harnson! And it's such a blessing to meet some of these folks and learn from them how much a part of their lives Iron Trip and Zion Radio has become. It's very humbling and I'm very honored and privileged to hear these things.

And sometimes I even have the privilege of not only interviewing the speakers on site at my Iron Trip and Zion exhibitors booth with the help of my webmaster, Eric Nielsen, and his wife, Sandy, and his daughters who distribute literature and so on, but I also interview, on occasion, listeners who let my listeners know, my other listeners know, how they've been blessed.

So go to g3conference .com if you want to find out more about registering. G3conference .com and I hope that you register and I hope you visit me at my exhibitors booth that's September 30th through October 2nd.

The Value of Church History for Protestants

Now, Forerunners of the Faith, 13 Lessons to Understand and Appreciate the Basics of Church History. As you know, Nathan, that there are many books on church history and even many books on church history written by those that share our theological background.

Why did you feel a need to add another book on history to the library shelves of Christians to help them even in a greater way appreciate those that have lived and died before us whose shoulders we stand upon, really, in many ways.

If you are a wise person, you are not going to be so arrogant of your own knowledge or so cultic about your own church that you do not make use of great minds and great lives of Christians that have lived throughout the centuries, even after the apostolic era.

And there are people out there like that. They don't think they needed to know anything about those folks, which is such a tragedy and such a sign of arrogance, in my opinion. But tell us why you feel or you felt or believed.

Sometimes that word feel slips out of my mouth. Tell me why you believed or why you thought that Forerunners of the Faith was a good idea to add to the volumes on history that we already have.

Yeah, thanks, Chris. You're right that there are many so that all of those other resources that are out there...

So you go back as far as the patristic era and go into a summary, at least, of the Church Fathers?

Yeah, we actually start with the Book of Acts, which, of course, God cares about. So we start with the Book of Acts on the day of Pentecost.

And Luke, of course, was a historian himself.

He was, very much so.

And a doctor.

And a doctor. And then we go into...

You know, that is very important and very good news to hear because having been someone who has arranged over 30 debates, I believe, over the last 30 years, primarily debates that I have orchestrated between Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and more recently, I've included even Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary.

Primarily these debates, not exclusively, but primarily they have been debates on the heresies of Roman Catholicism. And Dr. White or Dr. Costa will have a Roman Catholic opponent of high standing within Catholicism, typically, with a good reputation.

And one of the things that has troubled me is when I hear the testimonies of evangelicals who have converted to Roman Catholicism, they very often have as the greatest influence on their decision to do this, to apostatize as far as I'm concerned, is they've been seduced by a Roman Catholic apologists or Roman Catholic apologists, plural, with a warped and falsified understanding of church history.

And I think that even our own evangelical Protestants who are typically under the heading of fundamentalists do us a disservice when they could not care less about the patristic era or those years before the reformation and even hand to the Roman Catholic church that period of history gift wrapped and agree with the Roman Catholics.

Oh, these are nothing but Catholics. These are nothing but Roman Catholics. Now, of course, there is a difference between Roman Catholicism with a capital R and a capital C and Catholicism with a small c.

Am I right? Isn't it important that we, just like the reformers did, regain as our own, as a part of our own history, this period of time, because the church fathers agreed with us over Rome on a multitude of issues, especially those issues involving salvation.

Did they not?

Yeah, you're exactly right. I would agree has on. William Webster just does an amazing job. He was an evangelical church. And I think when evangelicals...

Amen. And so what you said, you start at Acts, which is obviously the biblical account of history, God-breathed account, and you go up to the reformation and I believe you said the 10th lesson, I think it was.

Yeah, it's lesson 10.

And where does lesson 13 bring you in history?

Yeah, so we want to make sure that we are always... So even as we study history, we have to do so through a modern period.

Yeah, I think that I'm sure you would agree that a lot of the problems that have arisen in neo-evangelicalism have been due to a very lack of knowledge of church history. I mean, obviously it demonstrates a serious lack of knowledge of the scriptures, which is even more important, but they very often go hand in hand because many folks, due to their ignorance of history, allow history to repeat itself in a horrible way by reviving perhaps unconsciously heresies that have already been refuted very articulately in the past by our Christian heroes.

Am I right?

Yeah, absolutely. I like to use studying church history. Maybe I need to change my analogy, but I do think that studying church history don't need to be sustained.

Yes, in order to avoid having the unpleasant thoughts of Dr. Fauci rise up in one's mind, perhaps you should change the analogy to having a healthy diet and exercise.

I like it.

I really have to go to... I'm sorry, go ahead.

I just was going to say I want my analogies to be Fauci-free.

I want everything to be Fauci-free as far as I'm concerned. I just want to let our listeners know we're going through our first break right now, so if you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Dr. Nathan Buzanitz and our discussion on Four Wonders of the Faith, 13 Lessons to Understand and Appreciate the Basics of Church History, right after these messages from our sponsors.

My friend Chris Arnzen and I will be joined by several of our other friends, including Votie Baucom, Justin Peters, Daryl Bernard Harrison, Virgil Walker, and James White. More than 20 other speakers will be joining us, and the lineup this year includes my pastor, John MacArthur.

For details, visit g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com. Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G3 2021. This is Phil Johnson reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full program is Dr. Nathan Busenitz, Dean of Faculty and Associate Professor of Theology at the Master's Seminary. We are addressing his book Forerunners of the Faith, 13 Lessons to Understand and Appreciate the Basics of Church History.

Our email address, if you have a question that you'd like to ask on the air, is chrisarnzen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA.

We have Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, a very loyal listener and very generous financial supporter of this program. He says, Greetings, brothers. How much do we know about the church during the medieval period?

Was the laity kept in the dark, no pun intended, when it came to the Bible and the Gospel?

Yeah, that's a great question. There are a number of different for the nature of the East, and I do think we find, even among those, and we that maybe there were some, and again, I think, soteriology, which, of course, of that reformed soteriology from the New Testament through the Church Fathers through the medieval period.

Yeah, I had the privilege years ago to interview Dr. Lawson on that book, on the old Iron Sharpens Iron radio, when we were still broadcasting out of WNYG on Long Island, New York. And I remember being utterly riveted by that conversation and being extremely blessed by the book itself.

And I'm very happy to know that Dr. Lawson will be joining you, along with over 20 other speakers at the G3 conference again this year. So it's another good thing to look forward to. Thank you, Grady.

Absolutely.

Thank you, Grady. And I know that we have your mailing address on file. So our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com, will ship that book out to you that you just won, Forerunners of the Faith, 13 Lessons to Understand and Appreciate the Basics of Church History, published by Moody.

CVBBS .com will ship that out to you as soon as they get it. Our friends at Moody just shipped those copies of the book out to us today. So please be a little patient with us because CVBBS .com doesn't have them yet.

But we will get them over to CVBBS immediately when we have the shipment, which should be arriving at least by early next week. And we thank Janice Todd and the folks at Moody Publishers for their generosity in providing these books as they always do when we interview one of their authors.

And just to give them a little plug, their website is moodypublishers .com. Moodypublishers .com. The problem isn't true. The problem with finding about more of what those outside of the Catholic Church, whether it is the more recognized Catholic Church amongst the patristics or the truly aberrant and apostate group that we would call Roman Catholic Church.

What is one of the difficulties of knowing the theology of those that existed outside of those groups? You just mentioned there's been a debate about that amongst historians. But isn't it one of the things that makes this problematic is that there were Christians that were very severely persecuted and their literature was burned and so on.

And am I correct in understanding it that way?

Yeah, that's right. So yeah,.

Some of our fundamentalist friends make the mistake of branding all under the umbrella of Anabaptists as being a part of their ancestry. And many of those Anabaptists from centuries past would never be allowed in membership in the fundamentalist Baptist churches of our day.

And of course, even that's problematic because Anabaptists is a very broad term. They were not a monolithic group.

Take these groups they believed they tend to be more of the is not recovery and medieval. You find them taught.

Yes. And of course, those heroes of the faith that were members of the Roman Catholic Church were most often executed. So they began in that communion, but the truths that they could not over which they could not remain silent typically got them in some serious trouble.

Well, we certainly see that when we get into the from the Lawlord Movement and then your short martyr to be a martyr is.

Well, I'd like you to highlight some of the primary figures that you address in your book throughout the ages that our listeners should be at least begin to become acquainted with and then they can find out more later with further research in your books and others.

But tell us.

Yeah, I do.

I'll start. So one of the earlier ones,.

It really is a collection of by Uranus of Lysia. And then the person we talk about the you the talk about the great. We talk about the creation, those groups that formation Luther can 10 less than 11 is formers with the First Great Awakening and the Evangelical Revival on Wesley.

And then from there, it's the modern missions movement of the Earth.

Yes, I want to highlight some of those things. In fact, I want to ask you specifically about councils when we return. And this is our longer than normal break, folks in the middle of the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break because the FCC requires of them to localize geographically Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and all of their programming to Lake City, Florida.

And therefore they air their own public service announcements and other local things during this middle part of the show, while we simultaneously are airing our globally heard commercials. So use this time wisely.

Write down as much of the information as you can, provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them or at least respond to them by thanking them for sponsoring the show so that they will keep renewing their advertising contracts because we depend on the advertisers to exist.

Never forget that, folks. Also use this time. Write down questions for Nathan Buzanitz on history and the email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Dr. Nathan Buzanitz after these messages from our sponsors.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries. My friend Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia, once again for the G3 conference. This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme Christ is supreme over all.

I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching and singing, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Conrad M. Bayway, Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker.

For details, visit G3 conference dot com. That's G3 conference dot com. Chris Arnson and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G3 21. This is James White reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

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