May 20, 2021 Show with Dr. Nathan Busenitz on “Forerunners of the Faith”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of

humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio

.com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy

Thursday on this 20th day of May 2021.

I'm thrilled to have back as a returning guest today, Dr. Nathan Busenitz, and

Dr. Busenitz is such a kind brother that he never even corrected me during our

last interview for mispronouncing his name.

I was calling him Dr. Nathan Busenitz, and I just was

informed that the correct pronunciation is Busenitz.

So Dr. Nathan Busenitz, who is Dean of Faculty and Associate Professor of Theology at the Master's

Seminary, the seminary founded by John MacArthur, he is going to be addressing

today one of his books, Forerunners of the Faith,

13 Lessons to Understand and Appreciate the Basics of Church History.

We're also going to be announcing the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, which is being held

September 30th through October 2nd, where

Dr. Nathan Busenitz is on the roster with over

20 speakers, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Nathan

Busenitz.

Good to be back on the show, so thanks for having me back.

Oh, it's great to have you back on the show, and tell our listeners something about the Master's Seminary.

Yeah, the Master's Seminary might be encouraging for your listeners to know that

there are Christians on the West Coast.

They obviously don't vote.

Well, we're outnumbered, but we see men trained.

And I want to give the website for that seminary.

It's tms .edu, tms, for the Master's Seminary, dot

edu.

And a couple of my friends have graduated from that seminary, that

fine institution.

One of them long before your time, Pastor Chris Pandolfi, very

good friend of mine who's now pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Medford, Long Island, New York, and

also Matt Tarr.

Are you familiar with Matt Tarr?

Yeah, sure, I know Matt.

In fact, he's just a great

guy.

Oh, he's a great guy, and I look forward to him returning to the program.

In fact, since I think so highly of

Pastor Matt, let me give you a plug for his church.

It's High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania.

And the website for that church is highpointbaptist .com,

highpointbaptist .com.

And they also have highpointbaptist .church as a URL, highpointbaptist .church.

And I strongly recommend, if you are visiting the Larksville, Pennsylvania area, or if you live in that

area, to pay that church a visit, and even join it if you are living locally.

I have nothing but the highest regards and recommendations

for Pastor Matt and High Point Baptist Church.

I'm sure there's many other people that I know that graduated from the Master's Seminary that I didn't even know that aspect of

their lives.

But certainly John MacArthur is one of my greatest living heroes,

and Grace Community Church and all that comes out of that fine congregation

is a blessing to me greatly.

Well, we are going to be discussing today your book

on Forerunners of the Faith, 13 Lessons to Understand and Appreciate the Basics of Church History.

And actually, before we go into that topic, tell us something about how you got in

contact with Josh Bice, who is the founder of the G3

Conference.

He's also pastor of Praise Mill Baptist Church in

Douglasville, Georgia, not far from Atlanta.

And I'm very happy that you are once again on the roster of that

conference, the G3 Conference.

Well, I will be manning a Iron Trip and Zion Radio Exhibitor's booth for the fourth year

in a row.

So how did this all come about for you?

Yeah, thanks.

Christine is all about one of the...

And also, thank you for your part.

Yeah, it has been an extraordinary blessing to me every year, not only because of the

speakers that are all so gifted and thoroughly equipped

to expound and exegete the scriptures

and the music that they provide, but also the fellowship, not

only reuniting with friends, some of whom I have not seen for many years, even some of my

friends that I had from Long Island, New York, who fly into Georgia that I

have not seen in years, who were among my very first friends as a Christian.

Also making new friends and meeting people that I have never met before who listen

regularly to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

It's amazing how many people...

When I go to the G3 Conference, people recognize my face from the website and from

Facebook, I'm assuming, because I'll hear people yelling to me from far away in the

crowds, Iron Trip and Zion!

Chris Harnson!

And it's such a blessing to meet some of these folks and learn from them how

much a part of their lives Iron Trip and Zion Radio has become.

It's very humbling and I'm very honored and privileged to hear these things.

And sometimes I even have the privilege of not only interviewing the speakers on site

at my Iron Trip and Zion exhibitors booth with the help of my webmaster, Eric Nielsen, and his wife,

Sandy, and his daughters who distribute literature and so on, but I also interview, on

occasion, listeners who let my listeners know, my other listeners know, how

they've been blessed.

So go to g3conference .com if you want to find out more about registering.

G3conference .com and I hope that you register and I hope you visit me at my exhibitors booth

that's September 30th through October 2nd.

Now, Forerunners of the Faith, 13 Lessons to Understand and Appreciate the Basics of Church

History.

As you know, Nathan, that there are many books on church history

and even many books on church history written by those that share our theological

background.

Why did you feel a need to add another book on history to the

library shelves of Christians to help them even in a

greater way appreciate those that have lived and died before us

whose shoulders we stand upon, really, in many ways.

If you are a wise person, you are not going to be so arrogant of your own

knowledge or so cultic about your own church that you

do not make use of great minds and great lives of Christians

that have lived throughout the centuries, even after the apostolic era.

And there are people out there like that.

They don't think they needed to know anything about those folks, which is such a tragedy and such a sign of arrogance, in

my opinion.

But tell us why you feel or you felt or believed.

Sometimes that word feel slips out of my mouth.

Tell me why you believed or why you thought that Forerunners of the Faith was a

good idea to add to the volumes on history that we already have.

Yeah, thanks, Chris.

You're right that there are many

so that all of those

other

resources that

are out there...

So you go back as far as the patristic era and go into a summary, at least, of the Church Fathers?

Yeah, we actually start with the Book of Acts, which,

of course, God cares

about.

So we start with the Book of Acts on the day of Pentecost.

And Luke, of course, was a historian himself.

He was, very much so.

And a doctor.

And a doctor.

And then we go

into...

You know, that is very important and very good news to hear because having been

someone who has arranged over 30 debates, I

believe, over the last 30 years, primarily

debates that I have orchestrated between Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega

Ministries and more recently, I've included even Dr. Tony Costa

of Toronto Baptist Seminary.

Primarily these debates, not exclusively, but primarily they have been debates

on the heresies of Roman Catholicism.

And Dr. White or Dr. Costa will have a Roman Catholic opponent

of high standing within Catholicism, typically,

with a good reputation.

And one of the things that has troubled me is when I hear the

testimonies of evangelicals who have converted to Roman Catholicism,

they very often have as the greatest influence on their

decision to do this, to apostatize as far as I'm concerned,

is they've been seduced by a Roman Catholic apologists or

Roman Catholic apologists, plural, with a warped

and falsified understanding of church history.

And I think that even our own evangelical Protestants who

are typically under the heading of fundamentalists do us a disservice when they

could not care less about the patristic era or those years before the

reformation and even hand

to the Roman Catholic church that period of history gift wrapped and agree with the Roman Catholics.

Oh, these are nothing but Catholics.

These are nothing but Roman Catholics.

Now, of course, there is a difference between Roman Catholicism with a capital R and a capital C

and Catholicism with a small c.

Am I right?

Isn't it important that we, just like the reformers did,

regain as our own, as a part of our own history, this

period of time, because the church fathers agreed with us over

Rome on a multitude of issues, especially those issues involving salvation.

Did they not?

Yeah, you're exactly right.

I would

agree

has

on.

William

Webster

just does an amazing job.

He

was

an

evangelical

church.

And I think when evangelicals...

Amen.

And so what you said, you start at Acts,

which is obviously the biblical account of history, God

-breathed account, and you go up to the reformation and I

believe you said the 10th lesson, I think it was.

Yeah, it's lesson 10.

And where does lesson 13 bring you in history?

Yeah, so we want to make

sure that we are always...

So even as we study history, we have

to

do so

through a

modern period.

Yeah, I think that I'm sure you would agree that a lot of the problems that have arisen

in neo -evangelicalism have been due to a very lack

of knowledge of church history.

I mean, obviously it demonstrates a serious lack of knowledge of the scriptures,

which is even more important, but they very often go hand in hand because

many folks, due to their ignorance of history, allow history to repeat itself

in a horrible way by reviving perhaps unconsciously

heresies that have already been refuted very articulately in the past by our Christian heroes.

Am I right?

Yeah, absolutely.

I like to use studying

church history.

Maybe

I

need

to

change

my

analogy,

but I do think that studying church history

don't need to be sustained.

Yes, in order to avoid having the unpleasant thoughts of Dr. Fauci rise up in

one's mind, perhaps you should change the analogy to having a healthy

diet and exercise.

I like it.

I really have to go to...

I'm sorry, go ahead.

I just was going to say I want my analogies to be Fauci -free.

I want everything to be Fauci -free as far as I'm concerned.

I just want to let our listeners know we're going through our first break right now, so if you would like to join us on the

air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Dr. Nathan Buzanitz and our discussion on Four Wonders of the

Faith, 13 Lessons to Understand and Appreciate the Basics of Church History, right after these messages

from our sponsors.

My friend Chris Arnzen and I will be joined by several of our other friends, including Votie Baucom, Justin

Peters, Daryl Bernard Harrison, Virgil Walker, and James White.

More than 20 other speakers will be joining us, and the lineup this year includes my pastor, John MacArthur.

For details, visit g3conference .com.

That's g3conference .com.

Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G3

2021.

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Thank you.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full program is Dr. Nathan

Busenitz, Dean of Faculty and Associate Professor of Theology at the Master's Seminary.

We are addressing his book Forerunners of the Faith, 13 Lessons to Understand and Appreciate the Basics

of Church History.

Our email address, if you have a question that you'd like to ask on the air, is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA.

We have Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, a very loyal listener

and very generous financial supporter of this program.

He says, Greetings, brothers.

How much do we know about the church during the medieval period?

Was the laity kept in the dark, no pun intended, when it

came to the Bible and the Gospel?

Yeah, that's a great question.

There are a number of different for

the

nature

of

the East, and I do think

we find, even among those,

and we that

maybe there

were some,

and again, I think,

soteriology, which, of course, of that reformed

soteriology from the New Testament through the Church Fathers through the

medieval period.

Yeah, I had the privilege years ago to interview Dr. Lawson on that book, on the old

Iron Sharpens Iron radio, when we were still broadcasting out of WNYG on

Long Island, New York.

And I remember being utterly riveted by that conversation and being

extremely blessed by the book itself.

And I'm very happy to know that Dr. Lawson will be joining you, along with over

20 other speakers at the G3 conference again this year.

So it's another good thing to look forward to.

Thank you, Grady.

Absolutely.

Thank you, Grady.

And I know that we have your mailing address on file.

So our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com, will ship that

book out to you that you just won, Forerunners of the Faith, 13 Lessons to Understand and Appreciate the Basics

of Church History, published by Moody.

CVBBS .com will ship that out to you as soon as they get it.

Our friends at Moody just shipped those copies of the book out to us

today.

So please be a little patient with us because CVBBS .com doesn't have them yet.

But we will get them over to CVBBS immediately when we have the

shipment, which should be arriving at least by early next week.

And we thank Janice Todd and the folks at Moody Publishers

for their generosity in providing these books as they always do when we

interview one of their authors.

And just to give them a little plug, their website is moodypublishers .com.

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The problem isn't true.

The problem with finding about more of what those

outside of the Catholic Church, whether it is

the more recognized Catholic Church amongst the patristics or the truly

aberrant and apostate group that we would call Roman Catholic Church.

What is one of the difficulties of knowing the theology

of those that existed outside of those groups?

You just mentioned there's been a debate about that amongst historians.

But isn't it one of the things that makes this problematic is that there were

Christians that were very severely persecuted and their

literature was burned and so on.

And am I correct in understanding it that way?

Yeah, that's right.

So

yeah,.

Some of our fundamentalist friends make the mistake of branding all under the

umbrella of Anabaptists as being a part of their ancestry.

And many of those Anabaptists from centuries past would never be allowed in membership in the fundamentalist

Baptist churches of our day.

And of course, even that's problematic because Anabaptists is a very broad term.

They were not a monolithic group.

Take these groups they

believed they

tend to be more of the

is not recovery

and medieval.

You find them taught.

Yes.

And of course, those heroes of the faith that were members of the

Roman Catholic Church were most often executed.

So they began in that communion, but the

truths that they could not over which they could not remain silent typically got them in

some serious trouble.

Well, we certainly see that when we get into the

from

the

Lawlord

Movement

and then your

short

martyr to be a martyr is.

Well, I'd like you to highlight some of the primary figures that you address in your book throughout the

ages that our listeners should be at least begin

to become acquainted with and then they can find out more later with further research

in your books and others.

But tell us.

Yeah, I do.

I'll start.

So one of the earlier ones,.

It really is a collection

of

by

Uranus

of

Lysia.

And then

the

person we talk about

the

you

the talk

about the great.

We talk about the creation,

those groups

that formation Luther

can 10 less than 11 is formers

with the First Great Awakening and the Evangelical

Revival on Wesley.

And then from there, it's the modern missions

movement

of the Earth.

Yes, I want to highlight some of those things.

In fact, I want to ask you specifically about councils when we return.

And this is our longer than normal break, folks in the middle of the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90

.1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break because the FCC requires

of them to localize geographically Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and all of their

programming to Lake City, Florida.

And therefore they air their own public service announcements and other local things during this middle part of the show,

while we simultaneously are airing our globally heard commercials.

So use this time wisely.

Write down as much of the information as you can, provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully

patronize them or at least respond to them by thanking them for sponsoring the show so that they will

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Never forget that, folks.

Also use this time.

Write down questions for Nathan Buzanitz on history and the email address is chrisarnson at

gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Dr. Nathan Buzanitz after these messages from our sponsors.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

My friend Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia, once

again for the G3 conference.

This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme

Christ is supreme over all.

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As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners

for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he

shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus.

Reading, preaching, and hearing the word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs,

baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy,

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Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at

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That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com.

Or call them at 908 -996 -7654.

That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is

by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing is

Daniel P. Patafuco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society.

Their mission?

To foster belief in the credibility of Scripture as the written Word of God.

They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare

collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by Mr. Patafuco

demonstrating the reliability of Scripture.

To advance the cause of the Gospel, they created a beautiful, perfect facsimile of the

genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition

1611 King James Bible.

This 17th century hand -engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ

going back to Adam and Eve.

This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of

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Originals of this work are in museums and nobody's ever made it accessible to the public

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love, Hope

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in

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Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa

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Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had a longtime partnership with our

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Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the Shoals.

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Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants, as well as radio stations,

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With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel, it is a blessing to see

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts.

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You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And we are honored that solid -ground -books .com thinks so highly of

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So please return the favor to our friends at solid -ground -books .com.

If you really love this show and you want it to remain on the air, return the favor by visiting solid -ground

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And remember, you're not only going to be doing them a favor by purchasing books from solid -ground -books .com, and you're not

only going to be doing us a favor by keeping a very important advertiser happy, you're going to be doing

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Always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and Mike

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Last but not least, folks, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, a theologically sound church,

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and I may be able to help you find a

church no matter where you live.

I have helped people in all parts of the globe find churches, sometimes right around the corner from where they live

that they didn't even know existed or they didn't know that these churches that are near them were theologically

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So if you are in that category, please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at

gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest today, Dr.

Nathan Buzanitz, as we continue our discussion on Forerunners of the Faith, 13

Lessons to Understand and Appreciate the Basics of Church History.

Now, you brought up councils before Dr. Buzanitz and the councils are an interesting

topic because you have both Roman Catholic apologists

and those who are in cults who are vehemently opposed to both

the Roman Catholic Church and Bible -believing evangelicalism.

They're equally opposed to both and both will claim that many

of the core doctrines that even the reformers and even evangelical

Bible -believing Christians today, they contain teachings that both

the Catholic Church and Protestants agree upon and you have the

Catholics and the cults both giving the Catholic Church credit for actually

coming up with, and in the case of the Catholic Church's explanation, that a part of the

whole gift that they claim they have of an infallible magisterium is that

these truths that we hold dear, like the Trinity, the canon of Scripture, and on

and on.

And of course, they have a different canon than we do, a longer Old Testament.

But they would claim that we as Protestants really have no business

correcting Roman Catholics on anything because they're the ones

that, for lack of a better term, invented these truths at these councils.

And they would obviously believe that God guided those gathered at these councils

to bring forth these truths for the very first time.

And of course, you have the cults who say they don't believe that God led them to do that, but they say that the Catholic Church invented

these false teachings like the Trinity and so on.

So how does a Protestant, a Reformed

Christian, intelligently answer those charges?

Yeah,

Chris,

that's a council

where

prior

to

that

time,

we have a record

of concern was to defend the doctrine

of the deity of Christ from where we always need to go back to.

It's not about what a council says,

as well as the doctrine

when a Jehovah's Witness is standing at your doorstep.

We, in

the revelation of God himself,

the Trinity is not established.

Church

Fathers

establishes historical

secular

false

teachings

on

BFFs.

So when you dig into the history of

Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarians, Muslims...

Yes, isn't a great figure from history that we can learn a lot from,

especially when we have these discussions with Roman Catholics who point

to councils and popes as their ultimate source of authority?

Isn't Athanasius, who was referred to with the

phrase Athanasius Contra Mundum, Athanasius against the world, because he...

Perhaps this is a little of an exaggeration, but he was practically the only one standing for,

standing firm for the deity of Christ, and he was not looking to

popes or councils as his evidence.

He was looking to the scriptures.

Yeah,

113

years.

You know, Chris,

three

volumes.

My point in saying all that is overwhelming that the early church

held to any other authority

middle ages and the

reformers were...

Okay, we have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who asks, what are the

primary councils that reformed Christians can wholeheartedly embrace?

Of course, keeping in mind that they were not God -breathed decisions

made at these councils, but nonetheless important, but that reformed Christians can

embrace without fear that they are embracing uniquely Roman Catholic heresies.

Yeah, that's a great question.

So

when

we talk

about

the urban

major or Cicea in 320,

then

you

have

the

might

Mary, Mary, the mother of Jesus,

of Chalcedon, like union in his

incarnation to the

evangelicals.

Third council, there's just a little bit.

Tenopal

really was a

council

which was in the 600s.

There, you had debate about whether

a

trinity,

even with an evangelical scholar,

I think evangelicals

and obviously evangelicals would have major problem.

Nation of icons, constantly that evangelical

question.

I would never consider that wealth of information a dump.

That was very enlightening.

Thank you, Joseph.

Please give us your full address in South Central Pennsylvania, because you have also won

Forerunners of the Faith by our guest, Dr. Nathan Busenitz, compliments of Moody Publishers,

and it will be shipped to you.

Thanks to our friends at cvbbs .com for free.

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

So make sure we have your full mailing address.

We have an anonymous listener who says, I'm remaining anonymous because I do not want to offend the folks

in my church about whom I am speaking.

There are some in my church that agree with the late Dr. R .C. Sproul that

Thomas Aquinas was a hero of the faith that we as reformed Protestants can also

embrace.

I know other reformed men, including those who were very close friends of Dr. Sproul, who

disagree with him over that issue.

And they believe that Thomas Aquinas was far too Roman for us as Protestants to

truly embrace as a hero and as someone from whom we should learn.

What is your guest's opinion on this?

Yeah, well that's a very

really hell of an article

entitled

Lafitte.

I

may

have

the apologetic

and

Dr.

Sproul.

And again, I hold both of those men in high regard.

Doctrine of justice,

the monergism that characterizes the Reformation

that can merit or

was more on the Roman Catholic

side than I

shouldn't

guess

since I can't quite remember,.

But it was.

Now, is there any truth to an accusation that I have heard?

I've heard it from, and perhaps accusation is the wrong way to say it, unless I'm referring to

those that were opposing Aquinas.

But there are those that opposed Aquinas for believing he was too Calvinistic.

And there are Calvinists who have a warm view of Aquinas because they believe

he was a double predestinarian.

Is there truth to that claim?

You know, Chris, that's a good question.

I don't know the answer to that question.

And medieval church,

I would actually have on that

issue.

That's quite right.

You can't know everything.

Have you ever heard that claim that he was a double predestinarian?

I don't know if I have or not.

I know.

So I'm going back

to the quote.

If you were to ask the reference

of

the

last contributor to his.

That was not my intention.

And by the way, I just received an email from John and

Bangor, Maine, who says there is an article on this question of the

predestinarian views of Aquinas at journal

.rts .edu from the Reform Theological Seminary.

And if you type in the search engine Cavalli, C -A -V as in victory, A -L -L

-I, you can find Aquinas and Calvin on predestination.

Is there any common ground?

Thank you, John.

And thank you, Anonymous, for sending in the question.

In fact, both of you, if you give me your full mailing addresses, have

won forerunners of the faith.

Thirteen lessons to understand and appreciate the basics of church history.

We're going to our final break right now.

It's gonna be much more brief than the last breaks.

So if you want to also ask a question, I would advise you to do so immediately because we're

rapidly running out of time.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state and country of residence.

We'll be right back with Nathan Buzanitz after these messages.

As we're walking in the light.

Hello, dear ones.

My name is Justin Peters and my friend Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and

I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the United States.

We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday,

September 30th through Saturday, October the 2nd on the theme, Christ is

supreme over all.

I'll be speaking there along with over 20 other speakers, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Vody

Balkam, Joel Beakey and James White.

For details, visit g3conference .com.

That's G, the number three, conference .com.

Please join Chris Arnson and me September 30th through October the 2nd at G3

2021.

This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

Here's what Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio recently.

Good to be back.

Chris, I always enjoy our time.

You, I have to tell you, one of the better interviewers out there and I've been doing this for 30,

more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment.

How much do I owe you for that?

Uh, you don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good, we're in good shape.

I'm glad you said it on the air so I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio airing live Monday through Friday 4 to

6 p .m. Eastern time at ironsharpensironradio .com.

The Wokeness in the Gospel Conference is coming to Denton Bible Church in Denton, Texas, June 11th and 12th.

Register now by going online to wokenessandgospel .org.

Featuring speakers such as Dr. Owen Strand.

If you just buy this ideology, the world's going to be made right.

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Daryl Harrison of the Just Thinking Podcast.

Sinners like you and me can be reconciled first and foremost to God and consequently

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Pastor Tom Buck of First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas.

Like Satan in the garden, woke hermeneutics undermines the very authority of the Word of God.

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Also hear from Tommy Nelson, Charles Stolfus and Rodney Brown Confronting the lies being impressed upon the

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If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is

by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Hansen is doing is

Daniel P. Patafuoco serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society.

Their mission?

To foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of God.

They go to various churches, schools and institutions to publicly display a rare

collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by Mr. Patafuoco

demonstrating the reliability of scripture.

To advance the cause of the gospel they created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the

genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition

1611 King James Bible.

This 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ

going back to Adam and Eve.

This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of

Babel and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims

to the throne of the universe.

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody's ever made it accessible to the public

in a large book form before.

You can have your own copy of this 44 -page genealogy book for a donation of $35

or more.

Visit historicalbiblesociety .org.

That's historicalbiblesociety .org.

Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005.

The publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President and Professor of Systematic and Homiletical Theology at Greenville

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That's liyfc .org.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts.

Of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past

or present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer

and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpens Iron financially.

Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can click support.

That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

Welcome back and our guest today has been for the entire program

our friend Nathan Buzanitz and we have been discussing his book

Forerunners of the Faith 13 Lessons to understand and appreciate the basics

of church history.

And let's see, we have a time for a couple of our remaining

listener questions.

We have a listener who also chooses to remain anonymous

and our listener asks, as far as the views

of rebaptizing Roman Catholics throughout history has

the understanding by most Reformed Christians be that Roman Catholics need not

be rebaptized after they come to faith in Christ or that they should be

rebaptized because even from a pato -baptist point of view the

understanding of baptism is a different interpretation altogether.

What is your guest's knowledge of history on this point?

I have been having arguments about it in my own church and that's interesting because I've been having

I wouldn't say arguments I've been having disagreement with some of not only my friends

but strangers on the internet over that very same issue but what do you have to say about that?

Yeah, thanks Chris.

Maybe that's why Robert Godfrey has such a high position at Lincoln Air Ministries.

Yeah, so in case Dr. Godfrey ever

and thank you

also for that with regard to,

I mean,

in terms of how that issue was

take

into very

good

question.

And of course there are a minority of Roman Catholics who came

to the Roman Catholic faith and were never baptized in

a Trinitarian formula before until they were

requesting baptism by the Roman Catholic Church as adults.

So even a person like that you would still insist.

Even if they were immersed as a believer by a Roman Catholic priest you would still insist that they be

baptized.

If they came to faith in the true gospel and were seeking membership in your church.

Yeah, I would not consider baptism the same

way that

if someone...

Yes, the Pato Baptists who are reformed who accept Roman Catholic baptism

seem to think that the Roman Catholic view

positively of the Trinity that they share the doctrine of the Trinity with us.

They seem to think that that trumps everything else.

That even knowing that the Roman Catholic Church is a false gospel for some reason that is

immaterial to them when it comes to baptism.

I don't know why, but...

Yeah, I would struggle with that and to be honest I

would.

The

way

that

it

treats...

By the way, there is an excellent book written by a 19th century Presbyterian

Pato Baptist who did not accept Roman Catholic baptism.

He wrote an entire book on it.

The book has been renamed Sacramental Sorcery The Invalidity of Roman Catholic

Baptism.

I think it may have been taken from a larger work by J .H. Thornwell but

it is retitled that and you can get it on Amazon.

So that's Sacramental Sorcery by J .H. Thornwell who did not accept

Roman Catholic baptism even though he was a Pato Baptist.

Well, I'm sorry folks we don't have any more time for any more questions but the next time we

have Nathan Buzanitz on make sure you contact this again.

I want to make sure that our listeners have all the information they need to get in touch with Dr.

Buzanitz.

Tms .edu is the website of the Master's Seminary.

Tms .edu don't forget about the conference that he will be speaking at along with over 20 other speakers

where I will be manning an exhibitor's booth this September 30th through October 2nd in Atlanta, Georgia.

The G3 Conference and go to g3conference .com.

G3conference .com.

I want to thank you so much Dr. Buzanitz for proving to be once again such a superb guest.

I want to thank everybody who listened.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a

sinner.