Fourth Sunday in Lent Service

The Fourth Sunday in Lent and the Meaning of Laetare

I would like to welcome you to the Kongsvinger Lutheran Church. Today is the fourth Sunday in Lent, and you'll note that the, I think the Latin for today's service is called Laetare, which means rejoice, it's from the first word in the Intuit.

And in each penitential season, there is always one Sunday set aside where things loosen up just a little bit, and today is that Sunday, hence the rose-colored stole. Just want to make sure you understand the rose-colored stole is not, does not mean it's change your pronouns Sunday, so.

For the Intuit today, we'll be using psalm tone A as in Australia, A as in Australia. If you're physically present here at Kongsvinger Lutheran Church, please rise for the opening.

Hymn.

Divine service setting two. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Amen.

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. Let us then confess our sins to God our Father. Most merciful God, we confess that we are by nature sinful and unclean. We have sinned against you and thought word and deed by what we have done and by what we have left undone.

We have not loved you with our whole heart. We have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We justly deserve your present and eternal punishment. For the sake of your Son, Jesus Christ, have mercy on us.

Forgive us, renew us, and lead us so that we may delight in your will and walk in your ways to the glory of your holy name.

Amen.

Almighty God in his mercy has given his Son to die for you and for his sake, he forgives you all of your sins. As a cold and ordained servant of Christ and by his authority, I therefore forgive you all of your sins.

In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Amen.

Again, psalm tone A today for our introit. Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her, that she may nurse and be satisfied. I was glad when they said to me, our feet have been standing. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem for my brothers and companions' sake.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever.

Amen.

Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her, that she may nurse and be satisfied. In peace let us pray to the Lord. From the peace from above, and for our salvation, let us pray to the Lord. For the peace of the whole world, for the well-being of the Church of God, and for the unity of all, let us pray to the Lord.

For this holy house, and for all who offer here their worship and praise, let us pray to the Lord. Save, comfort, and defend us, gracious Lord. The Lord be with you.

And also with you.

Let us pray. Almighty God, our Heavenly Father, your mercies are new every morning, and though we deserve only punishment, you receive us as your children and provide for all of our needs of body and.

Soul.

Grant that we may heartily acknowledge your merciful goodness, give thanks for all of your benefits, and serve you in willing obedience. Through Jesus Christ, your Son, our Lord, who lives and reigns with you in the Holy Spirit, one God, now and forever.

Amen.

Exodus 16 and the Bread from Heaven in the Wilderness

You may be seated. The Old Testament reading for the fourth Sunday of Lent is taken from the book of Exodus chapter 16. And the whole congregation of the people of Israel grumbled against Moses and Aaron in.

The wilderness.

And the people of Israel said to them, Would that we had died by the hand of the Lord in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the meat pots and ate bread to the full. For you have brought us out into this wilderness to kill this whole assembly with hunger.

Then the Lord said to Moses, Behold, I am about to rain bread from heaven for you. And the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may test them, whether they will walk in my law or not.

On the sixth day, when they prepare what they bring in, it will be twice as much as they gather daily. So Moses and Aaron said to all the people of Israel, At evening you shall know that it was the Lord who brought you out of the land of Egypt.

And in the morning you shall see the glory of the Lord, because he has heard your grumbling against the Lord. For what are we that you grumble against us? And Moses said, When the Lord gives you in the evening meat to eat, and in the morning bread to the full, because the Lord has heard your grumbling that you grumble against him, what are we?

Your grumbling is not against us, but against the Lord. Then Moses said to Aaron, Say to the whole congregation of the people of Israel, Come near before the Lord, for he has heard your grumbling. And as soon as Aaron spoke to the whole congregation of the people of Israel, they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the Lord appeared in the cloud.

And the Lord said to Moses, I have heard the grumbling of the people of Israel. Say to them, At twilight you shall eat meat, and in the morning you shall be filled with bread, and then you shall know that I am the Lord your God.

In the evening quail came up and covered the camp, and in the morning dew lay around the.

Camp.

And when the dew had gone up, there was on the face of the wilderness a fine flake-like thing, fine as frost on the ground. When the people of Israel saw it, they said to one another, What is it? For they did not know what it was.

And Moses said to them, It is the bread that the Lord has given you to eat. This is what the Lord has commanded. Gather of it, each of you, as much as he can eat. You shall take an omer according to the number of the persons that each of you has in his tent.

And the people of Israel did so. They gathered some more, some less. But when they measured it with an omer, whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack. Each of them gathered as much as he could.

And Moses said to them, Let no one leave any of it over until morning. But they did not listen to Moses. Some left part of it till the morning, and it bred worms and stank. And Moses was angry with them.

Morning by morning they gathered it, each, as much as he could eat. But when the sun grew hot, it melted. This is the word of the Lord.

Thanks be to God.

We'll speak the gradual together. I was glad when they said to me, Peace be within your walls. The epistle is taken from the book of Galatians chapter 4. Tell me you who desire to be under the law. Do you not listen to the law?

For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise.

Now, this may be interpreted allegorically. These women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery. She is Hagar. Now, Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia. She corresponds to the present Jerusalem.

For she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written, Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear. Break forth and cry aloud, You who are not in labor.

For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband. Now, you, brothers like Isaac, are children of promise. But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the spirit, so also it is now.

But what does the scripture say? Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman. So, brothers, we are not children of the slave, but of the free woman.

This is the word of the Lord. The Holy Gospel according to St. John, the sixth chapter. After this, Jesus went away to the other side of the Sea of Galilee, which is the Sea of Tiberias. And a large crowd was following him because they saw the signs that he was doing on the sick.

Jesus went up on the mountain, and there he sat down with his disciples. Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was at hand, and lifting up his eyes then, and seeing that a large crowd was coming toward him, Jesus said to Philip, Where are we to buy bread so that these people may eat?

He said this to test them, for he himself knew what he would do. Philip answered, Two hundred denarii would not buy enough bread for each of them to get a little. One of his disciples, Andrew Simon Peter's brother, said to him, There is a boy here who has five barley loaves and two fish, but what are they for so many?

Jesus said, Have the people sit down. Now there was much grass in the place, so the men sat down, about five thousand in number. Jesus then took the loaves, and when he had given thanks, he distributed them to those who were seated, so also the fish, as much as they wanted.

And when they had eaten their fill, he told his disciples, Gather up the leftover fragments, that nothing may be lost. So they gathered them up and filled twelve baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves left by those who had eaten.

When the people saw the sign that he had done, they said, This is indeed the prophet who has come into the world. And then perceiving that they were about to come and taken by force to make him king, Jesus withdrew again to the mountain by himself.

This is the gospel of the Lord. The sermon hymn is 743. You may be seated. In the name of Jesus. A bunch of Israelites in the wilderness being miraculously fed from God and then grumbling. That sounds familiar.

John 6, the Feeding of the Five Thousand, and the Point of the Signs

You'll note that the Old Testament text really prepares us well for our gospel text, because that's kind of the point, is that our Old Testament text sets us up for what John is recording for us in the gospel of John, and here's the point of the entire gospel of John.

These things are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you might have life in his name. Jesus' disciples, this is still fairly early in the gospel of John, are still trying to come to grips with who Jesus is.

He's performing miracles in such a way that they're scratching their heads, wondering who is this, that even the winds and the waves obey him, that he even forgives sins, things like this. They haven't quite put it all together and come up with that great confession of faith.

You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. So things are still kind of cooking in that direction. But the crowd that is following Jesus, you'll note they're kind of like... When I was living in Southern California, we would call them rubberneckers.

So if there was ever a crash on the freeway, the reason why everything slowed down is because everybody had to stop and look. If they could figure out a way to put a big curtain in front of the crash scene, no one would want to see that, and they would just keep driving on, and things would go a lot quicker.

But you'll note that the text is legitimately saying that the people are following Jesus, really wondering what's going on because they're seeing signs that he's doing. So let's work our way through our Gospel text, and we'll go a little bit longer in it, too.

After this, Jesus went away to the other side of the Sea of Galilee, which is the Sea of Tiberias. Jesus was up in Capernaum, and he's now in the southwest shore of the Sea of Galilee, which there is a city there by the name of Tiberias.

It's kind of like Paganville. It's a Roman colony, not really known for its faithfulness when it comes to the Jewish religion. And a large crowd was following him because they saw the signs that he was doing on the sick.

And then Jesus went up on the mountain, and there he sat down with his disciples. If you think back to the Sermon on the Mount, it begins kind of similarly to this. When Jesus is teaching, he teaches from a seated position.

This is how Jews in his days and rabbis in his days taught. So Jesus is about to conduct class here. And you're going to note he's going to begin his class with his disciples with a pop quiz. Man, when I was in high school and college, I hated those things.

But I always did pretty well in those pop quizzes because I have a photographic memory. But, oh, I remember when we were in high school, if we were in a class, and the teacher said, you need to pull out a piece of paper.

We're going to have a pop quiz. My wife, she wasn't my wife at the time, she was my girlfriend, but she would freak out. She would get really panicky and all this kind of stuff. And, of course, I would ace it.

And she goes, how are you always acing these things? You didn't even study. I said, well, how are you supposed to study for a pop quiz? Anyway, we'll forget the sass talk between the two of us. So lifting up his eyes then, Jesus, seeing that the large crowd was coming toward him, Jesus springs the pop quiz and he selects the disciple Philip to be the spearhead for the pop quiz.

Where are we to buy bread so that these people may eat? And you can just see the wheels turning in poor Philip's head. That's a ginormous crowd. Let me put this in context. 5 ,000 men are recorded as being there.

But men have wives. And men who have wives have children. So how big is this crowd? 10 ,000 seems a little low. 15 ,000 even seems a little low. 20 ,000 to 25 ,000, probably about that size. I mean, this would fill a large stadium.

We're talking a big crowd here. So poor Philip is looking at this ginormous crowd of people. Where are we to buy bread? And so Philip gives, I would consider to be the safe, factually accurate answer, but not the answer Jesus is looking for.

Philip answered, 200 denarii worth of bread would not be enough for each of them to get a little. Well, Philip, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. But you're going to note here, Jesus is testing them.

That's kind of the point. Jesus asked this because he was testing, because he knew what he was about to do. And the point is that all of this points to Jesus. Philip and all the other disciples have seen Jesus perform miracles and see him do things.

And so Jesus is pushing on them to start to think in terms of he is the Son of God. He is the one that we are to look to in times of need, and he is the one who supplies all of our needs. And he's about to perform a miracle that's going to make it clear who he is.

So you're going to have all of these Israelites in a wilderness region, sitting down in groups. There happen to be 12 groups, 12 baskets left over. And they're going to be miraculously fed. In this scenario, who's who?

Because Jesus is the one who's multiplying the loaves and fishes. Jesus is the one playing the role of God, because he is God. So he said this to test him. And then Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, said to him, Well, there is a boy here who has five barley loaves and two fish, but what are they for so many?

And so Jesus, at this point, doesn't even address that. He says, Listen, have the people sit down. So you can see Jesus' disciples dispersing, having the people sit down. He happens to have 12 disciples.

So there's 12 groups of these people, kind of invoking the 12 tribes of Israel. There was much grass in the place. It was near the time of the Passover. Then Jesus took the loaves, and when he had given thanks, he distributed them to those who were seated.

Now, it doesn't say that he broke the loaves, but man, the same language is there in the Lord's Supper. He took the loaves, and he gave thanks, and then he distributed them. So there has to be some breaking going on here.

And all of this is kind of hinting at the Lord's Supper. He distributed those who were seated, and so also the fish, as much as they wanted. And when they had eaten their fill, he told his disciples, Gather up the leftover fragments so that nothing may be lost.

So they gathered them up and filled 12 baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves left by those who had eaten. And when the people saw the sign, the miracle that he had done, they did the math and came up with the correct conclusion.

This indeed is the prophet who is to come into the world. This is a reference to the prophecy from Deuteronomy 18, where Moses says that God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers, and to him you shall listen.

So they've got that correct. Jesus is the one prophesied. And you can tell by the fact that you have this large crowd following Jesus because of the sign that there must have been all kinds of buzzing going on.

Is he the Messiah? Is he really the one? No one's performed miracles like this. And now they put two and two together, the replaying of a miracle from the Exodus. And this is it. This is the Messiah. But here's the problem.

Their focus is on the wrong thing. Their emphasis is on the wrong syllable. And the issue here is that they're more interested in what Jesus can offer than in Jesus himself. You kind of think of it this way.

These are people who are living under the boot of the Roman Empire. Maybe sandal, I don't know. But you get the idea here. And so the Roman Empire, there was no middle class. You were either wealthy or you were dirt poor.

And part of the reason why you were dirt poor is because everything was getting taxed into oblivion. And the Roman tax system was known for its greed and its graft and the grifters that would come through and steal things.

If your sheep gave birth to a lamb, your lamb disappeared. You had no future. And so they were taxing people into absolute abject poverty. And then with this miracle, the focus of the people is like,.

Oh wow, we'll never be hungry again.

Jesus can take five barley loaves and feed an entire multitude. We're going to be just fine, brothers. We're going to have our fill of food and we'll never be hungry again. Thank you, Jesus, for doing this.

But what do they want when they want that? The bread that Jesus is offering rather than Jesus. But Jesus is the bread of life and that's kind of why what follows next is what follows. They were wanting Jesus for the things that he could give them, but they didn't really want Jesus.

And here's the thing, it's still lent. How many of us are guilty of this? Even mildly guilty of it. Jesus, I'm coming to church to pray today because we're struggling financially. Jesus, I'm coming to church to pray today because my children are driving me nuts.

And I expect you to fix this problem. So they are very all too keen to bring their problems to Jesus with the expectation that he's going to give them something. But once they get the thing that they wanted, they're not so keen on Jesus.

Jesus is just the means to an end. And Jesus is the intermediary and it wouldn't matter to them if they got it from somebody else. That's a problem. And that's where you end up worshiping what God gives, his gifts, rather than the gift giver.

And that's the problem here in this text. And so perceiving that this crowd was about to come and take Jesus by force to make him king, Jesus withdrew again to the mountain by himself. I always kind of wonder, how does one pull something like that off?

What were they thinking? You grab Jesus, I'll hold him down, we'll grab a gunny sack, throw him into it, and we'll march him over to Jerusalem and force a crown onto his head and stick him on a throne.

How does one force somebody to become king? I don't think this is well thought out, especially since you're dealing with the Son of God. And so then we learn then that the reason why Jesus walked on the water was because he was trying to get out of Dodge without leaving any footprints.

He was basically confusing the crowd in order to foil their scheme to force him to become their king. And they eventually catch up to him. It's continuing in verse 22 of chapter 6. The next day the crowd that remained on the other side of the sea saw that there had only been one boat there, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with his disciples, but that his disciples had gone away alone.

Other boats from Tiberias came near the place where they had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks. So when the crowd saw that Jesus was not there nor his disciples, they themselves got into the boats and they went to Capernaum seeking Jesus.

The only thing missing were the bloodhounds sniffing his trail. They said, we've got to find Jesus. We've got to find this guy because Jesus at this point is a fugitive from monarchy. It's a strange way to think about it, but that's what's happening here.

So when they found him in Capernaum on the other side, they said to him, Rabbi, when did you come here? And Jesus just doesn't pull any punches. He gets right to the point and explains exactly what the problem is here.

He says, truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me not because you saw signs, because you ate your fill of the loaves. You're here for more bread, aren't you? And then he says this, do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on him God the Father has set his seal.

And Jesus now is confronting them with the fact, they don't really care about believing in him as being the Son of God. They just want more of that bread. You made us bread, that was good bread. You multiplied fishes, we want more of that stuff.

We need these things, Jesus. And Jesus is telling them, listen, you need to struggle to work for the food that endures to eternal life. So then they said to him, all right, what must we be doing to do the works of God?

Interesting question, because you'll note that they asked the question with the idea that works are done plural to do the works of God. Jesus said, this is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.

So they said to him, all right, then, well, what sign do you do that we may see and believe you? And you're wondering, why are they asking him for a different sign? Weren't they following him specifically because they'd seen him perform signs?

Didn't they just see him multiply loaves and fishes and feed an entire multitude of people in the wilderness? They just saw it. But here's the reason why they're asking for a different sign, is because Jesus has redirected them to himself, not to the bread.

And as a result of it, they kind of, in their mind, have had to reset things. Well, we're not here for you, we're here for the bread. So what sign do you give us to show us what you're telling us the truth?

It's like, which means that they kind of missed the whole point of the sign to begin with. Signs, by the way, are never the point. Signs always point to the message or to the one who is giving the message, and that's God.

So they said, what sign do you do that we may see and believe you? And what work do you perform? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness. As it is written, he gave them bread from heaven to eat. And they're right in invoking that, because yesterday's memory of the miracle that Jesus had performed invoked what we just read in our Old Testament text.

Jesus then said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, and here it goes, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.

In other words, you're focusing on the wrong bread. You're looking at barley. You should be looking at me. I am the bread who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.

Hmm.

So they said to him, all right, sir, give us this bread always. They still don't get it. So Jesus pushes further. I am the bread of life.

What?

I am the bread of life. Stop. You're hurting our brains. You can't be bread. You're a human being. Stop talking like this. Whoever comes to me, Jesus says, shall not hunger. Whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

But I said to you, have seen me, and yet you do not believe. You see, that's the problem. They don't really believe in Christ. They don't really trust in him. They don't believe he's the son of God, and Jesus is calling the question by pointing out the fact that the whole point of the manna in the wilderness was to point us to Jesus, who is the bread who comes down from heaven, and we're to feed on that bread.

Start to see it? It's kind of the idea here. So I said that you have seen me, yet you do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. Boy, that is good news, because sometimes I feel like, Lord, I don't even know why you put up with me.

It's like, you know, because I am just a mess. But he promises here that he will never cast us out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. Jesus is pushing them to believe in him. Believe that he is the Son of God.

These things are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and by believing you might have life in his name. And now, Jesus having called the question, here it comes. A bunch of Israelites grumbling in the wilderness.

So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said,.

I am the bread that came down from heaven.

You just hear it, right?

What does he mean by that?

And they said, Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, I have come down from heaven? Jesus answered them, Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.

I should point this out. I always like pointing this out. The verb here matters. If you're one of those people who's been taught that the reason why you're a Christian is because you've made a free will decision to ask Jesus into your heart, there is no text that says that.

And this text completely contradicts it, because Jesus says, No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. The verb there is helkuo, and it's better translated as drags. Okay, because the thing being dragged or drawn is not going willingly.

That's the point. And so no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me drags him, and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, and they will all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me.

Not that anyone has seen the Father, except he who is from God has seen the Father. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. Oh, good point. And that's good, comforting words for us.

We hear these words, and we're comforted by them. Whoever believes has eternal life, and each of us goes, Oh, that's good news, right? Indeed, it is. And so we can take solace in Christ's words.

But why?

Because we believe.

We trust him.

We know him to be the Son of God. He says then, I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This, Jesus pointing to himself, is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat of it and not die.

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my own flesh. That sounds a lot like the Lord's Supper, doesn't it?

There's a good reason why it sounds a lot like the Lord's Supper, because that's exactly what Jesus is preparing everybody for. But you'll note here this multitude of people who do not believe in Jesus and really just want the bread that he's able to offer them, the barley stuff.

They're not interested in the bread that Jesus is talking about, his own flesh. They want the bread they had the day before, the stuff that you can make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with. That's what they want.

They don't want Jesus' flesh, but see, that's to their own demise. So at this point, they start to grumble and go into dispute mode. The Jews disputed among themselves. How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

And you're going to note here, I always like pointing this out, Jesus doesn't go, oh, wait a second. You think I was talking literally about my flesh and my blood?

I'm sorry.

My mistake, I misspoke. No wonder you misunderstood. Let me clear this up for you. I was talking figuratively. This was all just a symbol talk. I'm not talking about you really eating my flesh or really drinking my blood.

I'm not talking about anything like that. That would have just cleared everything up, and all the Calvinists would sit there and go, yeah, see, you Lutherans are wrong. But that's not what Jesus did, did he?

No, Jesus doubles down. Knowing full well they're grumbling, how can this man give us his flesh to eat? Of course, every Lutheran hearing that question, how can this man give us his flesh to eat, goes, ooh, ooh, I know the answer to that question.

Pick me, pick me, I'll tell it to you, right? So Jesus said to them, truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day, for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink.

Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him. And all of us sit there and go, oh, these are great words, right? Why are they such great words? Because today we feast on the body and blood of Christ, and note all the promises.

You have eternal life. God will raise you up on the last day by eating his flesh and drinking his blood. You abide in him and he in you, and these are great promises that we grasp onto by faith, knowing full well that it's Christ's very body and blood that we're broken and shed so that you and I can be forgiven and pardoned and set free from slavery to sin.

Think about the big theme of the book of Exodus. You have all of these slaves, these Israelite slaves who God mightily sets them free from slavery. We are those slaves. We were born enslaved to sin, death, and the devil upon our conception and then born into a world of everybody under the dominion of darkness, and Christ, by his bleeding, dying, and suffering for you and for me, he reconciled us to God and he redeemed us, purchased us out of slavery, and he has set us free and then adopted us as his own children.

Believing this then, we hear Jesus' words here and we go, that's right, Jesus. What you're saying is true. And boy, these promises attached to the eating and drinking of your body and blood are great promises that we receive by faith.

Whoever feeds on my flesh, Jesus says, and drinks my blood, abides in me. As the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he will also live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven.

It is not like the bread the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever. Jesus pointing to himself. And Jesus said these things in the synagogue as he taught at Capernaum. Now, here's where we have to address a form of idolatry in our own country.

In the United States of America, bigger is better, right? If you have a large corporation with a huge budget and you're able to go multinational and you have chains and outlets and franchises and things all over the place, you are successful.

You are living the American dream. You are powerful. You are influential. And you're somebody we need to be listening to or an example that we need to be following. If you are a church and you are able to grow your church into a mega church, right, where you have people by the thousands coming in to the rock and roll, smoke and light show with the laser lights and everything like that, right, then, well, God is blessing that church.

How do we know? Because that church is growing. Is that really the way we decide whether or not God is blessing somebody? I would note I'm growing in my midsection. Should I consider that to be a blessing from God?