Owen's Gospel Seems To Be Missing Something - Part 7

All right, everybody, welcome back to the channel. This is the A .D. Robles YouTube channel.

That's right. Well, let's get started today. You know, we're gonna power through here. We got about 15 minutes left in the

Dr. Owen Strawn, Dr. Josh Howard conversation on Christian nationalism. And yeah,

I hope you had a good weekend. Good Lord's Day. Good everything. I had a great one. I had a great one. It was one of my son's birthdays this weekend.

We had a fantastic time, kind of an impromptu party with the neighborhood kids, which was pretty fun.

And then I played hockey this weekend as well for the first time in a long time. And I got to say, man, whoo,

I thought my conditioning was OK. You know, it's pretty good. There is there is nothing like playing a sport and realizing that, yeah, you're really not as in as good a shape as you thought.

You know, I'm strong, but I was sucking wind, man. It was it was pretty brutal. But but today,

I'm not really sore today. You know, my legs are fine and even my ankles are fine. I thought that would be a problem.

But one thing that is sore is my hands. I forgot how heavy the puck was.

And, you know, I started to grip my stick a lot tighter. My hands are like sore suddenly.

I don't know. I don't know. But it was a good time. Scored a couple of goals, had a few, you know, handful of assists as well.

Pretty fun time. Pretty fun time. And it was all guys from the church, too, which was fantastic. And, you know, I haven't skated in a while either.

And a little bit a little bit wobbly, you know, sometimes. But I was, you know, I was doing OK. I was stopping, you know, starting all that kind of stuff, you know, the basics, the basics.

But but anyway, that was a lot of fun. And we'll see. We'll see the next time I get on the ice.

I'm going to probably try to hit up like a public skate or something. But anyway, I don't remember where we left off here.

We're just going to go after we're just going to go. Let's go. Number one, like because I hear what you're saying, and I would suspect that's true of some within Christian nationalism.

And I bet you probably agree with what I'm about to say. But it's the same thing as saying like we have, you know, huge problems within Protestantism or evangelicalism like that.

That is a true statement. But there's a whole lot of different types of Protestants. Right. So within Christian nationalism, one could certainly you know,

I don't particularly like the term because of just what people hear. It's just really hard to walk through that term.

But I find it to be more of a hindrance sometimes. But certainly you could find a lot of variance within that.

I know you've interacted with with several on on various sides of the aisle on that. But but thinking toward the nations, you know, that's actually something

I wanted to talk about a little bit. You know, you know, everyone's a Christian nationalist now and lots of anti Christian nationalists are saying, see, this is what we feared.

We told you it's like, yeah, we knew this, too. Right. Like it's not telling us anything new. You know, me and Matt Williams, you know, on our show

Reform Jellicle, we must have talked about this a hundred times. They already think you're a Christian nationalist. So what's the difference?

Why are you fighting us so much? Now, here's the thing. You don't have to own the term if you don't want to. I'm not going to tell anyone they need to own the term

Christian nationalist. But what you can't do, though, is is make enemies of the real

Christian nationalists because you're playing right into their hands there. You're you're you're using all of their tactics.

You know, we're racist. We're evil. We're this. We're that. You know, we want to control everybody and this and that. We want to force conversion.

All the same talking points of MSNBC and CNN. And you're using it and you're too stupid or too dense to realize they're talking about you.

And not everybody's going to be making these distinctions. And so you're talking about yourself when you say these things.

Oh, yeah, the racist evil kids. And all CNN hears is, yeah, Christians are racist. Christians are kinest.

Christians are this and that. And the worst people in the world and all this. You guys are being foolish. This is not the time.

Look, we're this is a dark time. Right. And and Christian nationalists are this is what we're about.

We're about finding out the reasons why it's so dark. What has gone wrong and figuring that out?

And that requires an honest appraisal of our current situation. And it requires an honest appraisal of history.

And we're trying to figure that out. And we don't have all the answers, but we're willing to talk about it. And we don't give a rip if someone calls us racist for talking about it or trying to figure it out.

Right. We don't care about that. So we're trying to figure out what's gone wrong and then we're trying to figure out what are the solutions. Right.

What's gone wrong? Well, we've turned away from Christ. What are the solutions? Maybe we should turn back to Christ. Maybe we should be self -consciously pursuing

Christian governance, Christian society, Christian traditions, Christian everything, self -consciously.

And maybe we should figure out like, you know, our nation used to be a proper nation and then a lot of stuff happened.

Let's figure out what those things are. And now we've got this multicultural mess and there's all kinds of chaos.

And let's figure out what we can do about it. Right. What we can and we're not we don't give a rip if you think that sounds racist.

We don't give a rip. And here's the thing. You don't have to agree on every portion. I don't agree with every single thing a

Christian nationalist has ever said about history or about what we should do. But that's the point, though. I'm willing to talk about it as friends without using the tools of my enemy to destroy those people.

This is not the time to join the pagans in distancing yourself from your brothers, because that's only going to lead to more and more problems, more and more trouble for you, not for me, because I've already accepted all the problems.

I've already accepted the fact that everyone and their mother is going to put me on a watch list and I'm on watch lists already, probably.

And, you know, they're going to say I'm some kind of a radical. I've already accepted that and I'm cool with it. Right. I'm fine.

I get I read The Times. I know that's coming. That's coming for everyone, by the way. Everyone that doesn't bow the knee.

Right. Everyone that doesn't bow the knee to the regime. That's coming for you, too. It's it's it's it only helps you to accept that quicker.

To accept that they hate your guts, they think you're a domestic terrorist, they think all of these things, even though all you've done is be a

Christian. That's it. And not go along with the program and speak out against the program and try to figure out how do we reverse this program?

We love the United States, we love America, but we do not love what it's become. And there are things that we can do.

And so they already think you're you're the enemy. They don't make the distinctions. They're not being all so careful, like, oh, and strong.

I'm not saying you have to agree with us, Owen. Just try not to attempt to destroy us the same way that CNN, NBC and NBC does.

That's all I'm asking. Don't treat me like an enemy. Just treat me like a brother, a brother you disagree with.

You know, I wonder sometimes if some of these anti -Christian nationalists have, you know, good relationships with their actual brothers, because like my brother, you know, there's been many times my actual brother and my brother has set me aside and really called me to the carpet and really ripped me a new one.

You know what I'm saying? And he was right to do so, because what I was doing was out of control, was wrong, was was not correct.

And he was right to do so. But at no point in that conversation, as he's ripping me a new one, right, did

I think he was my enemy because he didn't treat me like an enemy. He didn't use the tools of my enemies to try to hurt me.

He used his brotherly love to come down on me and say, dude, you're destroying yourself.

You're destroying your life. You're destroying your family and all the people around you. Look at what you're doing.

He was giving me an honest appraisal of the situation. Oh, and if you don't like what we're doing, fine, fine.

But stop treating us as if we're the enemy that MSNBC says that we are. It's not appropriate.

This is not the time for that. That is not acting like a Christian. For all your, your, your, your, your, your, your gospel language and your gospel centered whatever, you just don't act like it.

Oh, and you just don't act like it. And this, this is so endemic endemic.

Is that the right word? I don't know, but I'm not going to look it up. I'm on a roll here. This is what liberals do.

Classical liberals and regular liberals, they always do this thing. I remember I was talking to, uh, to, uh, what's his face that that popular guy who's kind of like the evangelical

Eminem. I forget his name, buddy, but I was talking to him and this guy is known for like, yo, yo, yo dog.

You know, we got to have charity in all things, charity in all things, you know, disagree me. Yeah.

But charity for all his talk about charity, he treated me like I was his worst enemy. Well, maybe not as worse than me, but he treated me like an enemy.

He disrespected me constantly to my face. He was talking down to me. He was trying to trap me constantly to my face.

And if you watch that conversation, I'm the guy who never talks about charity and all things. I don't do that.

I don't, I just, I just have charity for people. I had a lot of charity for, and in fact, a lot of people were very upset with how

I handled this guy. It was Ruslan, Ruslan. A lot of people messaged me on the side and they were very upset with how

I handled Ruslan. They're like, you get, let him get away with too much. You let him, you let him, uh, you know, say this to you, do that to you.

You didn't, you didn't, you didn't, you know, you didn't fight him enough. And I was like, yeah, man, like I didn't know how to tell him to stop talking.

I didn't know how to tell him to shut up. He needed to shut up, but I was having some charity for letting him talk anyway, but it's just so crazy.

Oh, and you're not acting like a Christian towards us. You're not. And the bottom line is like, again,

I've said this many times. And if you, if you look at my track record, I literally do not care if you're a Christian nationalist and if you, uh, take the term and like even

Josh Howard here, I don't like the term. Well, I don't agree with his perspective on that. I think that that plays into the wrong hands.

But I don't think he has to own it. I think he's wrong that it's, it's not a good term to own.

I think it's a perfect term to own. You know, I think it, we've strategically, it's a great term to own because it says everything it needs to say and it pushes all the right people and it triggers all the right people and it gets people thinking about all the right things, but I don't need him to own the term.

I don't need him to like the term. And so I treat him like a brother. He's not my enemy. He's my friend. This is not the time for this.

This is not the time for this where we've got our backs in a corner. Things are not going really well.

It's a dark time. And all Christian nationalists are trying to do is to put forward a positive, uh, uh, aim, a positive view for the future, something we can actually do, not just things that we shouldn't do things that we should do.

And it's got people all hot under the collar and I kind of get it, but at the same time, you know, you can fight it if you want, but just listen, listen, you've got to understand the difference between a friend and an enemy, a friend and an enemy.

That doesn't mean you'd have to agree with everything your friend does. It doesn't mean you have to always get your friends back publicly, although you should probably consider doing that a lot more than you do, but there's a difference and there's a different way to treat them.

When I disagree with my friends, it's very, very different than when, when I'm disagreeing with an enemy, it's totally different.

It's a different animal. I've said my piece, you know,

Proverbs 14, talking about, uh, righteousness exalts a nation. Um, but, uh, but sins are approached to any people.

I'm just thinking toward, and I know that's, again, that's Proverbs. And so there's an old Testament thing going on there and you brought that out.

Um, but just thinking toward today, um, it, it's strange then that anybody would talk about sins being a reproach to a people.

It cause if I'm hearing you correctly, that would not apply for example, to England. So if you look to again, back in Proverbs 14 days, that was true of Israel.

That was true of the nations around them. And you can clearly see times in which they rose and fall. You know, we brought up Nineveh earlier. You have a time of great widespread repentance all the way down to the cows.

And then within a generation, they're turning their back on God and God's smushing them with a, with judgment, really truly a drastic turnaround, um, it's a short period of time.

So you've got that. And I, so I get that argument of like looking at England and saying, well, what is, what is the worth of them ascribing to a

Christian nation? Um, but I think to kind of, cause again, I know we're way over time at this point.

So I'll try to kind of circle around back to our original thoughts, um, thinking to Kuyper. So part of Kuyper who

I know you and I both, both enjoy Kuyper, um, part of his contention then was that because Christ is

Lord over all spheres, including the state, including every nation, including whatever governance, whatever group of men might erect, um, that they are still called to honor him in whatever way we suss that out.

They're still called to honor him and are judged for not honoring him in their laws. Hence the call and the duty of the

Christian to engage with all the nuances or details, you know, worked out the Christian is then to engage them because for a nation to pass evil laws or to curse the

God of heaven, who is over all spheres of authority actually brings judgment on them. But if I'm, if I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying that's more of an old

Testament paradigm, but not a new, is that correct? I think so. I just don't have new Testament.

I just don't have new Testament language along those lines. I don't mean that, um, sin is now of no effect among a people.

Um, we certainly don't want bad laws and evils at the public level or the policy level.

We certainly fight them. It may be that, that there's just not clear.

There's not clear teaching that would lead me to say that, um, America's under judgment and the way

England isn't, I don't, both countries, as I see them have tremendous sins in them.

Russia. What, what in the world is he talking about? Who would not think that England isn't under judgment.

In fact, England seems to be a little further along than we are. In fact, uh, you know, a lot of people say, if you want to see what's coming in the

United States, just go look in Europe, see what's happening over there. See the chaos that's over there. And there's chaos over there who would think that they're not under judgment.

What are you talking about, Owen? I can't believe he can be this dense. Has tremendous sins in it.

China has tremendous sins in it. What's the ranking of the nations in terms of holiness?

I have not the faintest clue in the, in the whole, I'm not trying to be, that's not your job,

Owen. That's not your job. And it was never the job of Israel in the old Testament times to rank the nations according to their faithfulness.

That wasn't their job. That's God's job. That's God's prerogative. In fact, God, sometimes when there's a nation under judgment, sometimes he fattens them for the slaughter.

Sometimes he fattens them for the slaughter. We see that in the old Testament itself. He says, be careful.

This is what the scripture says. Be careful when you're all, you know, high and mighty and you're, you're, you know, you got a lot of food and you got a strong army and you got a lot of wealth.

Be careful because here's the thing. It could be that you're going to forget God. And you're going to say, by my hands,

I got this wealth. By my hands, I got this power. And then God's going to come in swift judgment. It could be that China, if they're on the upswing, maybe that's what he's saying.

China's on the upswing. Okay, fine. It could be that they're being fattened for the slaughter. It's, it's, it's, it's baffling to me.

This is baffling to me. This is genuinely baffling to me, friends, that this man is a

PhD in, in, in something Christian, in something Christian.

I don't know what the PhD is, MDiv or whatever it is. I don't know. It's like, it's like, yeah, there was a lot of evil nations and they rose in the old

Testament and then they eventually fell, but they did rise and they were pagan and evil. And so it's not for us to know exactly what

God is doing at all times. Those are the secret things. There are things that are not for us. But what we can do is, is appraise the situation and we can look at Egypt as it rises and say, man, you know, they certainly seem to worship a lot of demons.

There's no way that's going to last because God will not allow it to last because God does not sit on his hands and pretend he doesn't see.

It's the same situation we have now. Do I understand why certain countries are, are, are, are evil, but yet they seem to be thriving in certain ways?

I don't know. I don't know. But I have a sneaking suspicion that there are things that are revealed that in the scripture that may lead me to believe that that's not going to last.

It's not going to last. It can't last. Something is going to have to give. God will have to come in judgment or there'll have to be some kind of mass repentance and there'll have to be some kind of acknowledgement that, man, we have sinned against God.

Let's actually change what we're doing. Like the King of Nineveh, like the

King of Nineveh. I mean, it's, it's almost as if Well, I don't really know anything to say that's not going to get me in trouble.

So I'm just gonna go ahead and bite my tongue. Silly. In the Old Testament, there is a standard, there's a standard of judgment.

It's to be, it's supposed to be Israel. The sad reality is the nationalist project crashes and burns.

I think that's actually a tell Josh. I think that's actually pointing us to see

God's not really working through political nation states.

That's not where we locate our hope. We had a Christian nation. We had an Israelite nation.

It went terribly. They end up walking as far away from God as you can.

They had a King. God appointed the King. They had for all his talk about how things get gospelized and how things are new.

Now it certainly seems like he has a low opinion of the power of God. Things are different now,

Owen, things are different. Now we have the perfect Israel. We have the second

Adam. We have regeneration. We've got the gift of the Holy spirit. Does this mean that we're now perfect?

No, but we have things that they never had before. And we've got a promise.

We've got Christ standing. He's alive. He's a man. He's sitting at the right hand of the father.

And we have a sure word that he's putting his enemies under his feet. And so, and he works through his people.

We already know that. And so, yes, he works through pastors. Of course he works through elders and he works through deacons and he works through the spreading of the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ and evangelism and all of those things.

But those that are evangelized that end up in the seat of politics or that end up in a business or whatever, he works through those people as well.

He's making all things new. Man, I'm all worked up.

It's just amazing to me. It's amazing to me that somebody that's so smart, that knows so much could be this dull.

It's amazing to me. What is sometimes called the civic law. They had everything the

Christian nationalist movement tells us to want today that is going to, that's our hope.

That's going to be great. That's where the world is going. They had it. It all died.

There's nothing left of it. I think what the Bible is saying to us is don't put your hope in that.

It's not that there aren't nation states, but that is not how, that's not how God is dealing with people today.

And so I'm not able, I don't feel comfortable ranking England first on the

Christian nation ranking list. And then China 50th. I see America, I see

America's sins with abortion, for example, I'm not trying, I'm not being silly. And I'm like, I don't know how that stacks up.

I legitimately don't know. What's the difference. It's not for you to know. You're just supposed to know that God is displeased with that.

And he's displeased with the United States because of how many babies we sacrifice to Mullick. He's displeased.

And we have in the scripture, the things that he does with nations that he's displeased. And I don't know about you, but I don't want any of that for my children.

I don't want any of that for my children. Is my hope in that? Obviously not.

But that doesn't mean that I don't have work to do here. That doesn't mean like, look, I have a lot of, a lot of, um, of, of plans for my children.

Like my, if, if, if I have anything to say about it and I do, because I'm their father, they're going to be way worse than me in a good way.

They're going to be way more radical than me. They're going to be better Christians. They're going to understand the

F the, the effects of their actions as a younger child than what I did. And you know what? My, my, my father, he had the same plans for me.

And then his, you know what I mean? And, and, and, and God has been, God has been really blessing the Robles family over the last couple of generations, big time.

It's just unbelievable to see. And I mean, I, I can't tell you all about it now, but it's just been unbelievable to see how

God has blessed the Robles family over the years. And it's just, it's just amazing. It's an amazing story.

And every generation gets worse than the last. And in a good way, I mean, in a good way, you don't, you know what I'm trying to say? Worse to the pagans, worse to the enemies of Christ, but good for us.

Every generation is worse than the last. And so they're stronger than the last two. They're stronger in almost every way.

So I've got a lot of plans for my kids, but it's my hope in the, in, in, in my children that, that, that they're the ones that are going to save the

United States. No, they're not. I'm not. That's not what my hope is. But that doesn't mean

I have work to do my, I want, I have work to do. I want my children to be stronger Christians than I've ever been.

I want my children to be better set up to fight the forces of evil than I ever was with a better constitution and more, more unction and more eloquence and more kindness and more patience and more everything we've got work to do.

Does it mean that our hope is in our work? Obviously not, but we were saved for good works.

We were saved for good works. I just, my pastor just this past Sunday preached an excellent sermon about this very topic, about the final judgment and the difference between works and faith and the relationship between works and faith.

Our hope is not in our works, but we better freaking have some works because that is what we were saved for.

We were saved for good works. So what is Owen even talking about?

He's talking about him like a man who has the first clue what the gospel is all about. I know he does though.

And that's what gets me all upset because this is just all a strategy. This is a tactic where he makes it seem like,

Oh, those stupid Christian. Yes. And we didn't think England number one, England number one. And then what is he talking about?

Our hope is not in our works. Our hope is not in the works in the civil realm. Our hope is not on the, in even religious works.

Our hope is not even in the works in our family where we're, you know, training our kids and, and, and trying to raise godly offspring the way

Christ commanded us to. That's not where our hope is in. Our hope is in the Lord Jesus Christ and, and, and in his forgiveness and in his power and the fact that he's the

King of Kings and the Lord of Lords and that he's promised to never leave us our hopes in all those things.

But we have work to do. We have work to do. That is part of the message, my friends.

That is part of the message. We were saved by grace through faith. We were saved unto good works.

We were saved to do good works. That God prepared for us beforehand.

This is all part of the plan. He saved us according to his will and then he prepared beforehand works for us to do for his glory according to his will.

And part of those works are in the civil realm. There is nothing in the New Testament that would make you think that part of those good works are not in the civil realm.

That's the one realm where there's no good works for us to do beforehand. That's part of what he wants us to do.

That's, that, that's, that's insane. And Owen doesn't even believe it. Owen doesn't even believe it. So it's just weird to hear him talking this way.

Well, how that stacks up. Because man, I didn't expect to be like America is gonna play hockey more.

It looks to me like Russia is wicked. It looks to me like China is wicked. It looks to me like England is pretty substantially wicked.

I don't have a ranking in the new covenant. What I do have is the call to go. You don't have a ranking in the old covenant either.

What are you talking about? It is so tedious.

He is so tedious. Who can get value out of this?

I just don't understand. Who is he talking to? I don't know.

I don't know. I just don't see the ranking in the new Testament of England and China. What? You see the ranking in the old

Testament and you know, Nineveh, Egypt, what are you talking about? What was the ranking? The power ranking?

Is it the evil power rankings? I did not expect to get this fired up.

I got to play hockey more often. I don't know. Maybe I'm just extra aggressive today. I have no idea. I have no idea.

I felt fine this morning. You know, I wasn't aggressive when I woke up. I was totally fine. In fact,

I hit the sauna. I was going to go to the gym today. But then after hockey, I was like, maybe I shouldn't go to the gym. So I hit the sauna instead for like 20, 30 minutes.

And it was great. It was great. To all these nations, this is what

I would say. It's clear. I go to all those places I just mentioned. The church sends missionaries. That is not me.

To all those places. We preach the gospel every chance we get. Disciples are made from those nations.

We baptize them. Churches are formed. We teach them everything we can from the scripture.

That seems to me to be what the book of Acts is showing us. That seems to me to reflect how

Peter writes and Paul writes. They don't just be so like, like, it's like you hear their stories of like companies that are too big, you know, companies that are just a little bloated.

And everyone's in their own little silo. And they can't really get a lot done because everyone's only focused on this one task.

And they have no idea how this task relates to this task over here. And everyone's in their own little silo.

And they just like, they don't really even know what the company even does, basically, because they're just focused on this one task.

And it's just a very inefficient way to run a company sometimes. He's like that.

He's like, yeah, we're supposed to preach the gospel. And then we baptize those disciples that get converted. And then we form churches.

And then we teach them the Bible. Okay. All of these are worthy tasks. This is the core mission of the church.

A hundred percent agreement. This is what we're supposed to do. These are our marching orders in the church, right? I get it.

But you got to understand that these people that you're discipling that get converted to Christ, they have lives.

They have lives and they have jobs and they have things that they need to do that they're concerned with, with their families and in their communities.

Sometimes they're even kings or, or, or congressmen or, or things like that. And they've got stuff to do.

And what the Christian nationalist is saying is that when they're in politics, because some of the disciples are in politics.

In fact, all of us in the United States, to some degree are involved in politics. All we are saying is that they should do that as Christians, Christianly, as Christianly as they can.

And they should search the scriptures, of course, for, for, for what they should do. But they should also be looking at the natural revelation and, and, and, and all of that.

They should be treating the church as a friend. They shouldn't be impeding the mission of the church.

They should be advantaging the church and they should not be advantaging any other religion. And they should not be advantaging the cause of secularism.

They should not be advantaging the cause of, of, of multi, multiculturalism. That's what we, as,

I mean, it makes sense as a Christian that that's what they should be doing in an overtly

Christian way. So, but you can't see that when you're focused on your silo. You're like, you're like that guy in the business that doesn't even really know what the business is doing.

All he knows is his task in the business. And he knows it pretty well, but he only knows his task.

But the thing is that this is a multi -faceted group. The church of Jesus Christ has all kinds of people in it, all kinds of people, different members, and they have different jobs and they have different concerns and different duties and different communities and different cultures and things like that.

And it's not the case that if everyone becomes Christian, everybody has the same culture. That is not the case.

That is not the case. And I don't see how anyone who's done any kind of traveling at all and, and had gone to a church somewhere and met people and got to know people from it, we could think that it would be.

Have a theonomistic focus at all. They're not, Peter is not urging the church to make, make amazing laws.

He's just not, it's not loser theology. He's calling them to suffer. And he's calling them by and large to submit.

In COVID, we. This is the problem too with, with, with people that, that are like overly biblicist, right?

Because they see that and they say they, they're, they're, they're again, they're like in the silo, right? So in Peter's situation with, uh, with, with Rome, you know, dominating everything and, you know, burning

Christians at the stake and doing all these things. Yeah. Peter called them to suffer. He did for Christ.

That is a very different scenario than the scenario we're in right now in Keene, New Hampshire, or wherever you live.

They're different scenarios. And so we can draw a lot from Peter, but there are things that aren't addressed in Peter that we encounter out there.

And we need to be, we need to be smart enough, wise enough to figure out how to apply these things to our situations.

If it's a direct correlation, sure. It's a direct correlation, but not, it's not always that easy. So we need to have wisdom to apply this.

And I think so often biblicists like the really hardcore, like over biblicist people severely lack in wisdom.

They severely lack in wisdom. We understand we had to work through some of this and we see you don't submit to everything, right?

Just like a wife doesn't submit to everything a husband says to do. She doesn't. So as citizens, we don't submit to everything the government says to do.

We submit as much as we possibly can. But it seems like Peter is more saying submit and suffer as you preach, then take this sucker over, curse

Nero, unseat him, take back the country, bring the old covenant law to bear on Rome.

He doesn't say any of that. The way the gospel advances, the way the kingdom of Christ advances is so ironic.

It's through suffering. That is not pietistic loser theology. That is the new Testament.

And I fear the stronger edges of the CN movement, the less mature, the brasher, the less careful.

I think they are leading people into a great Christianization, not the great commission. Anyway, we'll stop in there.

We've been at this for 30 minutes. Man, it is something. It is something. You know, you should seek out historians that actually look at the growth of the church and the growth of the kingdom of God and the gospel and the spreading of the gospel and things like that.

Because there's this idea that the only way the gospel spreads is through suffering and when

Christians are not in control. And that is simply false. I know you've been taught that since you were a little kid.

And I remember very specific times and people will say, oh, you know, the blood of the martyrs, that's the seed of the church or something like that.

And sure, there are lots of stories like that, but that is only half the story. It's not the entire story.

It's not the entire story. And so you need to have a little bit more of a balanced view of history and how the gospel spreads and how the kingdom of God, the church grows and things like that.

In any case, we will stop there. I hope you found this video helpful. God bless.