Presentation on Mormonism

So, for those of you who have survived this long, thank you very much. We now completely change gears once again, and this is going to be a little bit faster than I like to do it, to be perfectly honest with you.

Last time I did this was for a Ratio Christi group in Pachasum, South Africa, a few weeks ago, and I told everybody beforehand, I said, hey, if we're going to do something on Mormonism, invite the Mormon missionaries to come, contact the local mission and tell them you're going to have something on Mormonism.

They will send people. They did. They sent four missionaries. And so we had four missionaries that we got to sit there and do this presentation for. And they stuck around afterwards, talked to people, it was great.

And so, this is a subject that I have been dealing with for many, many, many, many, many years. Everybody figured my first book would be on Mormonism because that was the first group that I really dealt with in depth, starting six months after my marriage.

So it's been three and a half decades now. And it wasn't the first book, but I have written two books on Mormonism, Letters to a Mormon Elder and Is the Mormon My Brother? I'm going to be talking about Orthodox Mormonism today.

Mormonism is changing. Its theology has not yet changed, but the emphasis is changing. And certainly, the knowledge of the average Mormon person to whom you're speaking has radically changed, radically changed.

Things that I used to carry around a huge notebook to document to Mormons today are now being published by the LDS Church. You encounter more and more Mormons today that will admit that Joseph Smith not only had as many as, you know, married to 48 women and had a seer stone, I mean, man, for years we were telling people about how the earliest stories, the translation of the Book of Mormon was Joseph Smith put a seer stone into a hat and covered his face with it and so on.

So we're like, ah, I can't believe that. He had the Urim and Thummim. Last year, the church published a picture of the seer stone they've had all along in their archives. I mean, it has changed a lot since the early 1980s when I started studying this faith.

And the problem is there are so many topics on Mormonism. So, when I compare Mormonism to Jehovah's Witnesses, dealing with Mormonism is this broad, broad, broad spectrum of topics, but you only have to know them this deeply.

Dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses is this narrow range of subjects, and you have to know it really deeply. So they're sort of the opposite of each other in that way. But what can be so confusing about Mormonism, when I first started saying, I had no one to guide me.

And so, I'm reading all these books, and first I'm reading Christian books, and I start realizing what I need to do is read Mormon books to know what Mormons actually believe. For a while, I was like, I'll just never remember all this.

I'll just never be able to put all this together. But it helped to start talking with Mormons and start figuring out what the real central issues were. So, if any of you, any Star Trek geeks in here? All right, good.

All right. I watched, some of you are young, I watched the original when it was first airing, okay? On a barely colored television. And that was back, I remember Gilligan's Island the first year when it was black and white.

Yeah. So anyways, he's really old, he's done pretty well today for being so old. And I hope that his, I hope his denture cream holds, because it'd be really gross if his dentures fell out while he was talking.

So anyway, if you've ever watched Star Trek, one of the big problems is, why is it whenever you run into aliens, they speak English? You know, that's, gotta admit, that's a little bit of a problem. And so, they got around that with something called the Universal Translator.

And the idea is, built into the viewing screen, you have this Universal Translator that somehow allows the, yeah, allows you to communicate. It's sort of like Google Translate on steroids or something like that up in space.

And so, I call the graphic I'm gonna show you a little bit later on, the Universal Translator between Christianese and Mormonese. Because what normally happens when you witness to Mormons is, you think you're getting someplace and you think you've got a fair amount in common, and then about an hour into the conversation, they hang a left and leave you standing there completely alone, wondering what in the world happened.

And the reality is, you guys have been saying completely different things all along, you just didn't know it. You're using the same words, but you're using a different dictionary. And so, if you can know ahead of time what the Mormons actually believe, then you can do the translation and not waste an hour.

And it also helps you to centralize, know what the center core of Mormon theology is, and also to prioritize, because the fact of the matter is, you can spend a lot of time looking at a lot of different subjects that won't get you anywhere.

If you find yourself arguing polygamy with Mormons about Joseph Smith, you're probably wasting your time, you're not gonna get anywhere. You have to have goals, and you need to stick with the important stuff.

So let's start with the important stuff. In 1992, which was not all that long ago, at least for people like me, the church published a book called Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual. So if you want to get married in the temple, not one of these, you know, ward chapels or stake centers you might have around here, but an actual temple.

Is there a temple in South Dakota now? I'm sorry? Omaha? Okay, Omaha has one now. They went on a huge temple building binge starting in the late 90s, and for a long time, Mormons would have to travel a long, long way to get to these big, major temples.

Like if you lived in northern Mexico, you had to go to Mesa, Arizona to go to the Mormon temple. So they went on this big temple building binge, smaller temples, but temple building binge. And if you want to be married in the temple, sealed for time and eternity, in what's called celestial marriage, then you have to do it in a temple.

You can't do that in a ward chapel or anything else like that. And so before you do that, you've got to go through classes. And so this was the manual that you and your wife would have to study before you get married in the temple, between 1992 and 2001.

So for about nine years, this was the manual that was used in all of those classes. So this is copyright, Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So this is the presidency.

These are the leaders of the LDS Church, writing to Mormons. This is Mormons writing, these are the Mormon leaders writing to the Mormon people. You can't get much more official than this, all right? Now on pages four through five, this isn't buried in an appendix someplace.

This is the start. This is the foundation. God was once a man who, by obedience, advanced to his present state of perfection. Through obedience and celestial marriage, we may progress to the point where we become like God.

So immediately you have, God was once a man who, by obedience, advanced to his present state of perfection. That's the first statement. Proclaiming the divine potential within man, John Taylor once wrote, Knowest thou not that thou art a spark of deity, struck from the fire of his eternal blaze and brought forth in the midst of everlasting burnings?

Elder B .H. Roberts stated, Man has descended from God. In fact, he is the same race as the gods. His descent has not been from a lower form of life, but from the highest form of life. In other words, man is, in the most literal sense, a child of God.

This is not only true of the spirit of man, but of his body also. Can you see the implications of these two statements as they relate to you and to your eternal destiny? Elder James E. Talmadge did. He declared, In his mortal condition, man is God in embryo.

However, any individual, now a mortal being, may attain the rank and sanctity of Godship. How is this possible? What course of action will bring this potential to fruition? As you study this lesson, look for the answers to these questions.

Now realize, this is laying the theological foundation for marriage in the Mormon thought. Okay? So you're talking about who man is, who God is. And man is of the same species as God, is what you're being told.

Points to ponder. God became God by obedience to law. God became God by obedience to law. It was late afternoon as we sat in my office, but I felt the time had been well spent. He sat silently now, obviously contemplating the ramifications of the things we had been discussing.

We had talked of God, of how he had become God, and of what that meant in terms of our own exaltation. Finally, he spoke. So now we're going to have a conversation between a younger Mormon and an older Mormon.

And the younger Mormon I've put into yellow italics, and the older Mormon is in plain script. What is this law of exaltation of which you keep speaking? Well, it involves the whole of the gospel law. Everything required of us by God is associated with this law, but the major crowning point of the law which man must obey is eternal marriage.

Therein lies the keys of eternal life, or as the Doctrine and Covenants puts it, eternal lives. And there's the first place I just stopped to go, this is why we need to recognize the language barrier.

You and I have one conception of what eternal life means. When the Mormon hears you say eternal life, they translate it in their minds to eternal lives, and that is the result of a man being sealed to his wives for time and eternity so that after death and resurrection you can have spirit children and repopulate a planet.

That's not what we think about when we think of eternal life. But that's what the Mormon thinks about. In other words, an eternal increase of posterity. And you thought that you were an empty nester. Then what you're saying is that God became God by obedience to the gospel program which culminates in eternal marriage.

Gospel program is a law program that culminates in eternal marriage. Through obedience to law, we can become like our Father in heaven. Yes, do you realize the implications of this doctrine as far as you are concerned?

I think so. If God became God by obedience to all the gospel law, with the crowning point being the celestial law of marriage, then that's the only way I can become a God. Right. And it is the law that assists us in reaching that potential.

It tells us what we must do to gain the ultimate freedom. In fact, it is by obedience to law that we have progressed to our present position. You mean we have always been governed by law? Listen to this next short paragraph.

I think it's one of the most important in all of the thousands of pages of LDS literature I've ever read. Always. You are an eternal being. You were never created. And you cannot be destroyed. But you can advance, progress, and develop by obedience.

That is one of the most fundamental denials the Christian understanding of God and man have ever read. Let me tell you something now, and I will confirm it through the rest of this presentation. Islam is considerably closer to Christianity than Mormonism ever could be.

Islam is monotheistic. So are we. Mormonism is the most polytheistic religion man has ever imagined because Mormonism believes there is an infinite number of gods. And there you have it. You are an eternal being.

You were never created. You cannot be destroyed. But you can advance, progress, and develop by obedience. Then Hamlet's question, to be or not to be, is not the question. I don't know where that came from, but obviously whoever wrote this was a frustrated English student from BYU.

Right. Not in the ultimate sense, at least. Order means law, and that law is the law of the celestial kingdom. Any who come under this kingdom must obey that law. But I thought godhood meant freedom. If I have to do things to become God, am I really free?

You've got it wrong. It was the Savior who said, if you continue in my word, that is obey the law. There's good exegesis for you. You shall know the truth, and truth shall make you free. So by obedience to law, we learn truths by which to become free, but not free from the law.

Can you see that? I think so. I can only be a god if I act like God. Exactly right. Can you imagine, listen to this, this is Mormons talking to Mormons. Can you imagine the state of the universe if imperfect gods were allowed to spawn their imperfections throughout space?

If beings who did not have law under their subjection were free to create worlds? You're not reading science fiction here, folks. This is LDS theology. I guess that would be pretty disastrous, but I'm not sure I see why celestial marriage becomes the crowning apex of this progression.

Marriage doesn't seem directly related to the creation of the, what? Universes. Plural. They don't believe in one universe. There are an unlimited number of universes. That's how you can have an unlimited number of gods.

Oh, but don't be limited by your mortal perspective. God himself has declared his own reasons for existing. Remember he said, for this is my work and my glory. I see his purpose is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, Moses 139.

LDS scripture actually says God's reason for existing is man. That makes sense because God is an exalted man. Mormonism is the most man-centered religion ever designed. There is no true God in it. There is no true God.

If the God of this, the God of this planet was once a man who lived on a planet just like you and I. Fallen state just like you, redeemed center like you and I. Which involves giving birth to spirit children and setting them on the road to exaltation.

If that is to be done, you must have an exalted man and an exalted woman. An exalted man and woman who have been joined together in an eternal marriage. If this man and woman were obedient to all gospel laws except celestial marriage, what would be the result?

They still could not be gods. Now I understand celestial marriage is the crowning ordinance of the gospel. Right, I said with a smile. With that comment, I think we can end the discussion. Mormon leadership talking to the Mormon people.

Right before his death, if Joseph Smith had not been murdered in June of 1844, there would be no Mormonism today. If he had been allowed to live another two years, there would be no Mormonism today. His beliefs were changing so fast that no one could ever make heads or tails out of what he's supposed to be saying.

But because he was murdered improperly in the Carthage jail in June of 1844, you have no Mormonism today, because martyrs produce religions. And a month before his death, he preached a funeral sermon for King Fallen.

He had been crushed in a, he was digging a well and a tub of rock fell on him and crushed him. And here's some of the things that Joseph Smith said. In order to understand the subject of the dead, for the consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how he came to be so.

For I'm going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil so that you may see. You need to understand, as long as Mormonism continues to follow Joseph Smith, Mormonism can never be considered a Christian religion because of that statement.

We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. Yeah, that's what God said in Psalm 90 verse 2. Before the mountains were brought forth, wherever thou hast formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

I will refute that idea and take away the veil so that you may see. These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us.

Yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did, and I will show it from the Bible. Here then is eternal life, to know the only wise and true God, and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one, from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.

These are quotations from the King Follett funeral discourse. This is not LDS scripture. However, I have found that the King Follett funeral discourse has been cited more often by the leaders of the Mormon church than any other thing Joseph Smith ever said.

And that makes it as nigh unto official LDS doctrine as you could possibly have anything. Now here is what I call the universal translator. This is not an Amway presentation. You are not going to be asked to sign up to sell any soap afterwards.

It does look a little bit like it, I realize that, and Amway products are just fine by the way. I am not making fun of anybody. Just been there, done that, got the LOC. So anyhow, here is the universal translator.

This sort of ties together the central aspects of the Mormon faith. And by the way, as tired as I am, I am sure at some point I am going to say the Muslim faith because Mormon and Muslim sound really a lot alike.

So just forgive me. I am only talking about Mormonism from now on, and if I say anything else, just ignore it. So it starts up here in the corner, and so I will zoom into here. Here are the two eternal things in Mormonism, intelligences and matter.

Intelligences and matter. So what you have here is, now some Mormons are not so sure about the intelligences part, but many of them have specifically presented this in the past, that we all existed as intelligences.

God existed as an intelligence. All angels existed as intelligences. We were all the same type of thing. It's basically what makes you, you. The core essence of your personality has eternally existed.

Where it came from, we don't know. There are severe philosophical problems in Mormonism. And matter is eternal. In Mormonism, God cannot create matter. There is no such thing as kerosene, oxen, and helo.

God cannot create matter. He cannot say, let there be. God can only organize pre-existing matter. He cannot bring matter into existence. It is eternal. Now out of that realm comes spirit children. You are going to have to sort of hold on because when you look back at the big one here, here is spirit children up here, here is spirit children down there.

They are the same thing. It's sort of a cycle and it will take a little while to figure out how we get to spirit children. But the reality is in Mormonism, before anyone has a physical existence, because our existence here on this planet, there are billions of other planets in the universes with physical mortal beings like you and I.

And the same process is being gone through on each one of them. And everyone who has a physical existence on those planets, what's called the mortal probation, before that had a spiritual birth, were born to celestial parents, a man with a body of flesh and bone, no blood, and one of his many wives.

And the man and the wife have carnal knowledge of each other, but for some reason, even though she has a nine-month pregnancy, she gives birth to a spirit child, even though she has a body of flesh and bone.

I don't know how that works either, but anyway. And so, you're born as a spirit baby, you have spirit diapers, you have spirit doo-doo, you drink spirit milk, you grow, you have spirit fingernails and spirit hair, and it's an entire parallel, because spirit is just refined matter in Mormon understanding.

And so, you grow as a spirit child, and you go to spirit school, and you play spirit sports, and the whole nine yards in a spiritual pre-existence, okay? So, that's where the spirit children are. We'll talk a little bit more about that later on.

So, from the spirit children realm, there is a line that goes over here, we'll talk about that later on, if we have time. From the spirit realm, we enter into mortal probation, that's where we are right now, our life right now.

From our life right now, there's two ways of getting out. This arrow here, which goes up to paradise, or this arrow here that goes down to spirit prison. This is the Mormon way, and the Mormon way is marked by an A and a B, and hence you have right here, the A and the B defined as A is what's called the four fundamentals of the gospel, the four fundamentals of the gospel, faith, repentance, baptism, and laying on of hands.

Those are the four fundamentals of the gospel. In other words, those are the four absolutely minimal things that have to take place for you to enter into paradise. But they're not enough, but they're the minimum.

There needs to be more beyond that for different levels of glory and things like that, but those are the minimum. Then the B is continued obedience to gospel rules and principles, which we would call works righteousness.

This is the mark of when the Mormon dies, they have had faith, they've repented, they've been baptized by the proper priesthood authority, they've had hands laid upon the head for the receipt of the Holy Ghost by proper priesthood authority, and so they go to paradise.

But the vast majority of human beings, because there's only about 15 million Mormons in the world, and even the Mormons will admit that a majority of their people are not actively involved in the temple and things like that, that the vast majority of the human family leaves the moral probation and goes to the spirit prison.

And in this, now you've got to give the Mormons their props. They are a missionary people. If you've ever gone to one of their temples, you'll find an older couple giving the tour. And many of those older couples served missions when they were kids, and now that they're retired or something, they're doing another mission for the church.

And in Mormonism, you don't stop doing missions even when you die. Because what happens is Mormons from up here in paradise come down to the spirit prison, that's not this line here, that's apostate Mormons, but real Mormons from up here come down to the spirit prison, they preach the gospel to the spirits who are in prison.

So if you're a spirit who is in prison, and you hear the gospel in prison, and you go, I like that. As a spirit, you can have faith. As a spirit, you can repent. But it's very difficult to baptize a spirit by immersion.

And it's impossible to lay hands upon the head of a spirit that just goes through like Casper, you know, it just doesn't work well. And so how then can you get from the spirit prison up to paradise? Well, baptism for the dead.

If you sit outside of, I guess, we were told the Omaha Temple, it's the closest one you can get to. If you're to sit outside the Omaha Temple during the weekdays, and sort of watch with binoculars, you'll eventually be arrested by the police.

But before the police come, you will be able to see people walking in, and they'll have these little bags with them. And they are their temple garments. And they are going in to do ordinances for the dead.

If you use MyFamily .com, Genealogy .com, Ancestry .com, all of them, they're all Mormon. The Mormons own everybody's ancestry databases. They bought them a long, long time ago. There's nothing you can do about it.

If you want to do any genealogical research, the Mormons have got you. And the reason is that they believe that it's their responsibility to study their ancestry and to provide for their ancestors who are in the spirit prison a means of getting out and getting to celestial glory.

The old teaching under Joseph Smith was that you could get no farther than your ancestors did. Like a train. They've had to drop that because the reality is you can only go back so far no matter how good you are.

And so that really isn't an emphasis. But the emphasis is still upon the idea of saving the dead. And so the living do ordinances for the dead. And so they're going in, and they will be baptized for the dead.

Let me look real quick here, just a second, and see where I have this. Oh, did I take it out? Oh, wait a minute. I skipped it. Don't skip slide. There we go. All right. Here we go. Now, years and years ago when I first started studying Mormonism, someone who had come to understand that Mormonism was not true had taken back when we first developed those little microcassette recorders.

They had taken that, and they would strap it to the leg and had gone through the temple ceremonies with that hidden multiple times because the tape would only last so long. And had finally had recorded all the temple ceremonies.

So I remember listening to them for the first time. Well, since then, now you've got little spy cams. And so since then, they have now been videotaped. And you can actually go on YouTube and watch the temple ceremonies online.

But this baptism of the dead is fascinating. Up until the Atlanta Temple, in every temple that had been built, the baptismal font was always underground. And it's built on the back of 12 oxen. The statues of 12 oxen, because that's what it was in Solomon's Temple.

And so I remember I got to go through, I've gone through two temples, their dedication period. One was in Manhattan. Manhattan, and I think Singapore, somewhere in the east, are the only two that are not freestanding buildings.

Because they're in major cities where there's no freestanding buildings, no place to build a freestanding building. So you have to buy space in a building to do it. But when I went to the Manhattan Temple, we went into the baptismal area, and there's the 12 oxen.

And as we walked around the top, I noticed the network cabling holes in the floor, because they hadn't installed the computers yet. But what happens is, you have to, to get into the temple, you have to get what's called Temple Recommend.

And some, some bishops, to get your Temple Recommend, will actually require you to bring your W -2s, so he can check your giving records and make sure that you tithe on the gross and not the net. And it can be pretty strict, but you have to be, you know, in good standing with the church and not using tobacco or caffeine, things like that.

You get your Temple Recommend, you go in, and for the baptism of the dead, you present your names. They are entered into a computer. And so when you go in to be baptized, the names will come up on a computer screen.

And so you'll have a guy who's the recorder, he'll read the names off, and then there's a guy, an elder, down in the, in the baptistry, who is baptizing, and on average, you'll be baptized 50 times per session.

So what you're going to see here is that happening from a secret cam from just a few years ago. So let's, let's take a quick look at it. Pretty wild, isn't it? And then you leave there, and you go into another room, where you kneel down, and you have elders, and you have the same names.

And these elders are now, they're wearing their temple garments, which are interesting to look at themselves, and they lay hands upon your head, Sister Johnson in the name of, same names, to receive the Holy Ghost, lift the hands, put them back down, for each one of those people, checking off all those people.

Because what are the four fundamentals of the faith? Faith, repentance, baptism, laying on of hands. So you've got to do the baptism, laying on of hands, and so now, if you did that on behalf of everybody who's in the spirit prison, as long as they have faith and repentance, they can now get out and go into the, into paradise, and receive celestial glory.

So you're saving the dead. So there's baptism of the dead. So those who accept this, now if you're in a spirit prison, there's people who can go in and out, and they're telling you how to do this, why you wouldn't accept this, I don't know, but only a certain number of people do, who end up going to paradise.

The rest, at resurrection, these are the only places they can go, to these different levels of glory over here. But to get into the highest level of glory, you have to go through the Mormon temple ceremonies, and things like that.

So let's go up to this top point here. At the resurrection, this green line's resurrection, okay, this line crosses out, so you're resurrected, you go into the celestial kingdom. But there are different levels in the celestial kingdom.

If you were married for time and eternity in the celestial marriage ceremony, then you bring your wives with you, and it's really interesting, it's not going to be long before polygamy is legal in the United States, you realize that.

Obergefell ended any meaningful definition of marriage in the United States. And so, unless something changes, and Obergefell is overturned, Utah will have polygamy, and the Mormon church does not want it.

Isn't that funny? The Mormon church doesn't want it, they don't know what to do with it. But they're going to be stuck with it. And I think it's going to result in a major split, personally, that's my little prediction.

But you can be sealed to many women, even after you're dead, Joseph Smith's been sealed to hundreds of them. You take your wives, highest level of glory, you organize a planet, you engage in relationships with your wives, you have spirit children, and once you've got enough spirit children, you organize another planet, you put your Adam and Eve on it, you start putting spirit children in it, you start the whole thing all over again, except now you're God.

You're God the Father. And you will be worshipped by your offspring. And you start the process all over again. They go through it, create more gods, create more gods, create more gods, that's why there's an unlimited number of gods in the universe.

It's an exponentially increasing number. Okay? But not everyone is sealed in the temple. Not all Mormons are. The vast majority of Mormons aren't. If you're not sealed in the temple, then your marriage does not last death, and you become, if you're a guy anyways, an angel.

So Noah is actually Gabriel. Who knew it? And by the way, Noah built the ark in North Carolina, and flowed over to Ararat, and according to Joseph Smith, the Garden of Eden was in Missouri. The St. Louis Cardinals always knew that, but nobody else did.

So there you go. So there's the celestial level, and it's considered to be the glory of the sun. Well, then, what about the rest of us? Well, at resurrection, those that go to the terrestrial and celestial levels of glory, they are resurrected.

See, it crosses that green line right here. And so they go to the terrestrial or the celestial. The terrestrial is the glory of the moon. The celestial is the glory of the stars. Now where did Joseph Smith get all that?

He got it from 1 Corinthians chapter 15. There's the glory of the sun, there's the glory of the moon, there's the glory of stars. But then Paul said there's a glory celestial and a glory terrestrial, which he just meant by heavenly and earthly.

And in fact, heavenly and earthly is how it's translated in John by the King James. So Joseph Smith looks at it and he goes, sun, moon, stars, terrestrial, celestial. Something's missing. Hmm. There should be a third level of glory, because there's sun, moon, stars.

So what he did is he took the first letters of terrestrial, slapped them on the last letters of celestial, came up with a new word Noah's ever heard before called telestial. And that's the level of stars.

And Joseph Smith said that if you were to, for a moment, experience the glory of the celestial kingdom, you'd immediately commit suicide to get there. That's how glorious it is. So can you imagine what the celestial glory is like?

Wow, it's just awesome to see. And if you look at the Mormon temple in Salt Lake City, you'll notice that the upper stones up here are called sunstones. And then in the middle, you've got the moon and its different phases.

And then down here at the bottom, you have the star stones. So you've got three different levels of heaven in the actual architecture of the Salt Lake temple. It's been a while since I've seen that, but you see it absolutely all the time.

Now you'll notice that down here is hell. And we haven't explained this in a line right here. These are apostate Mormons. If you have a testimony of the Holy Ghost that Mormonism is true, that you deny it, then you don't go to paradise, you go to spirit prison.

And those are the ones who go from the spirit prison into hell. If it crosses the line of resurrection, that means you get your physical body back. Over here is Satan and the demons. And they were spirit children of God the Father who rebelled and were cast out of heaven.

They do not cross the green line. And so sort of the consolation prize of having at least been a Mormon for a while is since you got farther in the process and you got your physical body, you will rule and reign over Satan and the demons in hell.

But they're the only ones that go to hell. Over here, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, the worst of the worst, still get celestial love and glory. I've had many a Mormon pat me on the back and say, you'll make the terrestrial kingdom.

You'll make the terrestrial kingdom. You'll be fine. You'll be fine. You'll make the terrestrial kingdom. So you're judged by your works, you get your body back, but you're damned. You're damned. Ah, it's that language thing again.

Damned up. You can no longer progress any farther. You get your body back, but you've basically been neutered, so you can't have children. Because the power of God in Mormonism is the power of the priesthood and procreation, okay?

So apply this to our planet. God the Father is named Elohim. Elohim is a man from another planet. He was in a fallen state like you and I. He was redeemed. He went through the process of eternal marriage ceremony to his many wives.

He was exalted. He lives on a planet that circles a star named Kolob. This is according to the book of Abraham in the LDS scriptures. The LDS has four books of scripture. King James Version of the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price.

This is in the Pearl of Great Price. And he lives on a planet that circles a star named Kolob, and that's where we were all born as spirit children. And then when he had enough spirit children, then he organized Earth and created Adam and Eve and put the first souls in them, and we all lived in this spiritual preexistence.

Now you may ask, why don't we remember them? Well, other than Shirley MacLaine, why don't we remember the spiritual preexistence? And there's really no official answer for that other than so we can live faithfully and be tested into mortal probation.

The old Mormon woman's idea back in the 1800s was that since you grow to be about six foot tall in the spiritual preexistence, when you cram a six foot tall spirit person into a little baby, they lose their memory.

That was the idea amongst Mormon women back then. Of course, they were polygamists and they had 40 kids, so how could you not come up with an idea like that? So that was, if I had that many kids, wouldn't you start thinking strange things?

I certainly would. Anyway, so God's first born spirit child on Kolob is Jesus, who is Jehovah. One of his other early sons is called Lucifer. So Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers, as we are with Jesus and Lucifer.

All of us are spirit brothers or sisters with Jesus and Lucifer. What happens is when it's time to create earth or to organize earth, not create earth, Jesus presents Elohim's plan, which is free will.

You'll all have a choice whether you become gods or not. But Lucifer, of course, is a Calvinist. And so Lucifer is going to force everyone to become a god. And so a vote's taken, and the Calvinists lose, and they get cast out and become Satan and the demons.