WWUTT 1625 Q&A Was Paul the 12th Apostle, Are Women Pastors a Judgment

WWUTT Podcast

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:01

Was Matthias not supposed to be the 12th Apostle? It should have been the Apostle Paul.

00:07

If a church has a woman as a pastor, is that therefore not a church and they should just shut their doors? The answers to these questions when we understand the text.

00:25

Many of the Bible stories and verses we think we know, we don't. When we understand the text is an online ministry dedicated to teaching the

00:32

Word of God in context, promoting sound doctrine while exposing the faulty. Here's your teacher,

00:38

Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky, who is not in studio with me today. I know you are disappointed as part of the reason why this program was late.

00:46

We were trying to arrange a time we could get together and record and it just didn't work out. However, you were promised that if we read a question from you on our

00:58

Friday program, February the 18th, if your question got read on this podcast, this episode, on this date, you would receive an

01:08

R .C. Sproul book. Now, the rules originally said, if Gabe and Becky read your question on the

01:14

February 18th podcast, well, Becky's not with me. So I have to bend the rule a little bit.

01:21

Now it's just going to be, if I read your question, then you will receive an

01:27

R .C. Sproul book. I've got two books here. I've got Chosen by God from R .C. Sproul and I've got Saved from What.

01:33

I think I've got enough time for a couple of questions and those questions that I read will receive one of these two books.

01:42

Once again, being Friday, we take questions from the listeners and you can send those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

01:52

This next question comes from Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina. He says,

01:58

Dear What, I wanted to ask a question for your Friday show, but I did not catch your email address, so I'll ask it here.

02:05

And the here that he is referring to is the website, www .utt .com. If you ask me a question through the website, it will get to the same email address when we understand the text at gmail .com.

02:17

So either way it gets to me, Grady, I'm glad it worked out for you. So Grady goes on.

02:22

When I heard Justin Peters talking with his former pastor, Jim Osman, Justin said that he thought the apostles in Acts 1, 12 to 26 appointed

02:33

Matthias out of the Lord's will. So in other words, when Matthias was chosen as the twelfth apostle to replace

02:41

Judas, Justin is saying that they were not in the Lord's will when they did that. And as Grady goes on to say, if they had waited for the filling of the

02:49

Holy Spirit, that it would have been the apostle Paul who would have become the twelfth apostle. I've always thought that also,

02:56

Grady says, but I have never heard anyone else say that. What do you think? May our heavenly father bless you,

03:01

Becky, and your family. Thank you so much, Grady. And because I'm responding to your question on the program today, you're going to be picking up the book

03:08

Saved From What? From the late great Dr. R .C. Sproul. Now, I'm guessing that you're referring to the most recent interview that Justin and Jim did with one another.

03:19

And that was regarding Jim's appearance on Dr. Michael Brown's radio program,

03:25

The Line of Fire. Jim called in and he confronted Dr. Brown for really for being a false teacher, platforming and giving cover to many heretics in the charismatic movement.

03:37

Now, I'm not going to go on to talk about some of the things that they discussed in that exchange or even what broadly what

03:45

Justin and Jim talked about in their interview. But I will put a link to Justin's video in the show notes below so you can go and watch that yourself.

03:53

Now, that may be the interview that you're referring to. I'm not sure. I watched that interview and I don't remember there being a statement about Acts 1.

04:03

It could have been one of those things where maybe I was listening to it while I was on the way out to the car because I do that.

04:08

I'll listen to stuff while I'm walking from my office to the car and maybe I just wasn't paying close attention and I missed the mention of it.

04:15

I don't know. This doesn't ring a bell. So it could have been a different interview between Justin and Jim or it could have been that most recent one regarding Jim's appearance on Dr.

04:24

Brown's show. Either way, I'm going to provide a different perspective here.

04:30

Now, understand when I respond to this question from Grady, I am not dogging on Justin and Jim in any way.

04:39

These guys are dear brothers in the Lord. I love these men and I would love to just sit at their feet and learn from them.

04:46

So I'm not sitting here going, no, I know better than these guys. I'm just going to give you a different perspective on this.

04:52

It's still our responsibility to come to the scriptures and test all things according to the word of God.

04:57

And that's how I'm going to provide my answer to you. So one perspective is the one that you just heard from Grady that he shared from Justin Peters that the apostle

05:07

Paul really should have been the 12th apostle. But the the other 11 apostles kind of jumped the gun a little bit by assigning

05:17

Matthias to that spot. Let's look at this where Matthias receives that 12th appointment in the book of Acts.

05:26

This is in chapter one, and I'm going to start reading here in verse 12. This is out of the Legacy Standard Bible, by the way.

05:32

Then they returned to Jerusalem from the Mount called Olivet. That was where they were with Jesus when he ascended from their presence into heaven.

05:40

That's near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day journey away. And when they had entered the city, they went up to the upper room where they were staying.

05:49

That is, Peter and John and James, Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James, the son of Alphaeus, Simon the

05:56

Zealot, and Judas, the son of James, not Iscariot. These all with one accord were continually devoting themselves to prayer along with the women and Mary, the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.

06:10

And in those days, Peter stood up in the midst of the brothers, a crowd of about 120 persons gathered together and said, men, brothers, the scripture had to be fulfilled, which the

06:24

Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested

06:30

Jesus. For he was counted among us and received his share in this ministry.

06:37

Now this man acquired a field with the price of his unrighteousness and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all of his intestines gushed out, referring to the way that Judas died.

06:49

And it became known to all who were living in Jerusalem so that in their own language, that field was called

06:54

Hakodama, that is field of blood. For it is written in the book of the Psalms, let his residence be made desolate and let no one dwell in it and let another man take his office.

07:09

Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning with the baptism of John until the day that he was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.

07:29

And they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justice and Matthias.

07:36

And they prayed and said, you Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two you have chosen to take the place of this ministry and apostleship from which

07:50

Judas turned aside to go to his own place. And they cast lots for them and the lot fell to Matthias and he was added to the 11 apostles.

08:03

Now what happens after this, when you get to Acts chapter two is the giving of the Holy Spirit and they are filled with the spirit.

08:09

The apostles then go out into Jerusalem and they share the gospel of Jesus Christ at Pentecost in different tongues.

08:19

They are given various human languages to be able to speak the message to the various languages that are represented there.

08:26

All of that talked about in Acts two. So this is the conclusion to Acts one. We see the appointment of a 12th apostle to the seat that Judas vacated because he had betrayed

08:38

Christ and then committed suicide. And so Matthias becomes that guy and you'll notice the qualification for who was going to be that 12th apostle and there were two men among them that fit these qualifications.

08:51

So he had to have been with us, accompanied us all the time that the

08:58

Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning with the baptism of John. So starting with the time that Jesus was baptized and was therefore there to hear the voice of the father from heaven say, this is my beloved son with whom

09:13

I am well pleased and saw the Holy Spirit descend upon him like a dove. This 12th man must have been witness to that.

09:20

And he also had been with us to the day that the Lord was taken up from us, which was the event that had just happened prior to them coming together in the upper room.

09:29

There were two men that qualified, Justice and Matthias, and they cast lots.

09:36

So kind of like flipping a coin to decide who was it going to be, because both of these men were basically equally qualified.

09:42

And they prayed when they did this and said, show to us the one whom you have chosen to fill the vacancy that was left by Judas.

09:52

And the lot fell on Matthias. Now, it wasn't unbiblical for them to cast lots.

09:59

In fact, we see that being done even in the law in Leviticus chapter 16, there's a casting of lots to decide which goat is going to be given as a sacrifice to Yahweh and which one would be sent into the wilderness as a scapegoat that was chosen by casting lots.

10:14

We also have in the scriptures, of course, Proverbs 1633, the lot is cast into the lap, but it's every judgment is from Yahweh.

10:25

So God is the determiner of all things. Even if you're flipping a coin, you are not choosing something by chance that the

10:33

Lord has not already chosen. So all of that to say that we see the casting of lots being done in the

10:40

Old Testament and then, of course, here in the New. And there's nothing that's being said here about that being something that should not have been done.

10:49

Nowhere in the text does it ever indicate that Matthias was somehow an illegitimate apostle and that appointment actually belonged to Paul.

10:58

In fact, Paul refers to the twelve and he does not number himself among the twelve, but instead refers to himself as one who was untimely born.

11:09

So he did not have the same kind of apostolic experience that the other apostles had.

11:16

The twelve had been with Jesus during his earthly ministry, but Paul never was.

11:22

He did not become an apostle until after Jesus had ascended into heaven, appeared to him on the road to Damascus.

11:28

Paul, of course, spent three years with him in Arabia. So he learned directly from the

11:34

Lord Christ, but he was not with Jesus during his earthly ministry. Let me read to you what

11:39

Paul says in the first Corinthians chapter 15. This was a chapter I just covered recently on the podcast.

11:45

So on first Corinthians 15, starting in verse one, Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel, which

11:52

I proclaim to you as good news, which you also received in which you also stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which

12:04

I proclaim to you as good news, unless you believed it for nothing. So Paul is talking about how the gospel that he proclaimed was an authoritative word as an apostle, as one sent from Jesus Christ.

12:18

So even though he's not among the twelve, he still has that apostolic authority that has been granted to him by the

12:25

Lord himself. Going on into verse three, For I delivered to you as of first importance what

12:31

I also received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures, and that he was buried and that he was raised on the third day, according to the scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve,

12:50

Cephas being Peter, and then all of the twelve together. And then we have in verse six,

12:56

After that, he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep.

13:03

As I've been covering this section on the podcast just a couple of weeks ago, I had mentioned there that Paul is laying out an apologetic for the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

13:13

It is testified to first by the scripture, by God himself, through his prophets, foretold hundreds of years before Jesus was born, before all of these things happened.

13:24

So the first witness is the scriptures. And then there were the twelve apostles. Then there were hundreds of other witnesses, some of whom are still alive,

13:32

Paul says. So you can go and you can ask them. Verse seven, After that, he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.

13:39

And now listen to this in verse eight. And last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared to me also, for I am the least of the apostles and not worthy to be called an apostle because I persecuted the church of God.

14:00

So he calls himself an apostle, but he does not number himself among the twelve. And when

14:05

Paul mentions the twelve there, it's before Matthias was appointed as the twelfth apostle.

14:13

So he certainly witnessed the risen Christ before he was appointed to that particular position.

14:20

And we know that it wasn't Judas, because as it said here in Acts chapter one,

14:25

Judas had already committed suicide. So that reference to Jesus appearing to the twelve was Peter with the other eleven.

14:32

That included Matthias. And Paul does not number himself among the twelve.

14:38

When we read about the twelve apostles, even in the book of Revelation, this is not in reference to Paul.

14:46

It is in reference to the twelve. That includes Peter, Matthias, and then the other ten.

14:54

So again, I don't think that there's anything here in the text that would indicate to us that it was a mistake to appoint

15:00

Matthias to that spot, and Paul should have actually had that position. Paul never refers to himself that way, and there's nothing else in the text that says that either.

15:09

In fact, he says that he was one untimely born. He was appointed to be an apostle at a different time than the rest of the apostles were appointed, and he's the least of the apostles, because he was not with Jesus during his earthly ministry.

15:27

He's not worthy to be called an apostle, a very humble approach to this, because I persecuted the church of God, Paul says.

15:36

But by the grace of God, I am what I am. He's in this position because God had grace on him and appointed him to be an apostle, as Paul even said at the beginning of the letter to the

15:49

Corinthians. In 1 Corinthians 1, he said, I'm an apostle by the will of God. So we go on, continuing in verse 10 here, and in his grace toward me did not prove vain, but I labored even more than all of them, yet not

16:04

I, but the grace of God with me. He's traveled farther than all the other apostles did, and done more, planted more churches, has suffered more persecutions, but he's not boasting in himself.

16:17

He said, this is all because of the grace of God, that I've been appointed to this, to his service.

16:23

Verse 11, so then whether it was I or they, so we preached, and so you believe.

16:32

And just as the Corinthians came into faith because of the testimony of the apostle Paul or any of the other apostles, so we have come to faith the same way.

16:40

We heard the gospel message that was proclaimed here at the beginning of 1 Corinthians 15, and so we've believed it.

16:46

We've repented of sin. We've put our faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, and it is by this work of God.

16:54

It is by the work of God, as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1, I think it's verse 30.

17:00

It is his doing. You are in Christ Jesus, and all of us have come to faith the same way because we heard the gospel proclamation.

17:10

We heard it said to us, turn from your sin to the Lord Jesus Christ, and we listened and obeyed because we are among his sheep.

17:18

We know the voice of the good shepherd. Those who are his sheep will obey, repent, and believe.

17:24

Those who are not his sheep won't. And this began with the apostolic ministry that Jesus had appointed 2 ,000 years ago.

17:32

Twelve men that he appointed to this service, the apostle Paul being the 13th apostle.

17:39

Now notice there, there was another guy. Justice was just as qualified, but he was not chosen to become the 12th.

17:46

And this is kind of up for debate. It's not a salvific issue. There are some people that will claim the reference to James here was a reference to him being an apostle, that Barnabas was an apostle.

17:59

And so there's some differing opinions on that. But I will say that by this statement that Paul made here in verse 8, last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared to me also.

18:11

Paul was the last apostle appointed. So there would be no other apostolic appointments after Paul.

18:17

One place that I can say Justin and I definitely agree on, on this issue, is that if anybody says to you today that they are a prophet, or I'm sorry, that they're a prophet, well, yeah.

18:28

But if they say to you today that they are an apostle, they are lying to you.

18:35

There are no other apostolic appointments. The office of apostle is closed. Thank you for applying.

18:41

And we still sit under that apostolic authority every time we open up the New Testament.

18:47

For it was from that apostolic ministry that we have the New Testament canon that we have been given.

18:53

And so every time we open up the scriptures and we read them, we are submitting to that authority that Christ gave to his apostles to carry a message in his name.

19:03

And what the apostles said, what was written down in the New Testament is every bit as much the word of Christ as the letters that you may have printed in red ink.

19:14

Thank you once again for your question, Grady. I hope that clears things up, or at least provides you with another perspective on that particular matter.

19:20

And you'll be receiving that R .C. Sproul book in the mail. I did do a shorter 90 second video on this, so there's the long answer.

19:29

Let me summarize everything that I just said there in this 90 second video.

19:37

In Acts chapter one, after Jesus had ascended into heaven, but before the giving of the Holy Spirit, 120 people gathered in the upper room to pray.

19:46

The 11 apostles decided to replace Judas, who betrayed Christ and hung himself. This 12th apostle had to have witnessed

19:53

Jesus' earthly ministry, beginning with the baptism of John until the day that he was taken up from us,

19:58

Acts 1 .22. There were two men present who qualified, Justice and Matthias. The apostles prayed that God would show which one of these two he had chosen.

20:07

They cast lots, basically they flipped a coin, and the lot fell on Matthias, who became the 12th apostle.

20:13

Now, some have argued that Matthias' apostleship was illegitimate, and it was actually Paul who was to be the 12th apostle, since Christ appeared to him on the road to Damascus and appointed him an apostle in Acts 9.

20:24

But even Paul did not number himself among the 12. In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul wrote about the witnesses to Christ's bodily resurrection.

20:33

He said Jesus appeared to Cephas, then to the 12, which would have included Matthias, though he had not yet been named among the 12.

20:40

Then Jesus appeared to more than 500 brothers. After that he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.

20:46

And last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared to me also. For I am the least of the apostles, and not worthy to be called an apostle.

20:56

Paul was indeed an apostle sent out to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ our

21:03

Lord. But Paul was a later apostle, more rightly considered the 13th apostle, not numbered among the 12, when we understand the text.

21:12

We're going back to North Carolina again. This question comes from Shelly in Iron Station.

21:18

She says, Dear Pastor Gabe and Becky, my husband John introduced me to your show and he and I love the

21:24

Friday podcast. Thank you, Shelly. I'm sorry that Becky's not on with me this week. She wouldn't be doing video anyway, and I'm videoing this particular episode.

21:32

So she says, I ran into an issue and he suggested, her husband John, suggested that I write to you about it.

21:37

He said, I am in a women's class at our church on Wednesday evening, and we've recently started on First Timothy.

21:44

This past Wednesday, we discussed chapter two. One of the topics was women in position of authority, of course, because we see that come up in First Timothy chapter two, verses 11 and 12.

21:55

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man. Rather, she is to remain quiet.

22:01

So Shelly says one lady shared that she knows of a very small church where very few men attend and none will step up to the positions that require a man, namely the position of a pastor.

22:13

The church has deaconesses, women serving as deacons, and now the men are offended and won't attend.

22:20

In my belief, this is not a biblical church and should disband for not following God's word. What is your take on this?

22:27

God bless and thank you guys. Well, Shelly, I appreciate you asking your question and because I read it on the podcast today, you are going to be receiving the book

22:35

Chosen by God from the late R .C. Sproul. All right, let's frame this in the study that we've been doing through the book of First Corinthians.

22:46

So we're in chapter 15 right now on the podcast. I just finished up chapter 14.

22:52

Let's go back there where the Apostle Paul is talking to the church in Corinth about the right exercise of spiritual gifts.

22:59

He says, I pray that you would all prophesy because it is through prophecy or prophesying the word of God that people hear and believe.

23:07

Romans 10, 17, faith comes by hearing and hearing through the word of Christ.

23:13

So how does a person come to faith? How does a person grow in their faith? It is through the prophesying or the declaration of the word of God.

23:22

Now there was still new revelation that was going on at this particular time, even at the time that Paul is writing this letter to the church in Corinth.

23:31

This is still during the apostolic era. When the Apostle John died at the end of the first century, there's no new revelation.

23:39

So Christ was speaking through his apostles, and then with the last apostle, there was no new revelation.

23:49

We have revelation completed for us right here in canon in the New Testament. We don't have any need for new revelation.

23:56

Peter even says in 2 Peter 1 that you have the prophetic word more fully confirmed.

24:02

So this is sufficient for our every need, everything that we need to hear from or know from God, he has given to us through his apostles.

24:11

And as I said with the previous question, when we listen to the New Testament preached, we are sitting underneath that apostolic authority, that message that was given from Christ to his apostles to be proclaimed to the people and to his church.

24:27

So here we are. So they have preached, and so we believe, as Paul says in 1

24:32

Corinthians 15, 11. So coming back to the right practice of spiritual gifts that Paul lays down in 1

24:40

Corinthians 14, we saw through some of the rebukes that Paul was giving this particular church that there were some things that were being done improperly.

24:50

And one of the things that was going wrong in the church in Corinth is that there were women who were putting themselves in the positions that were meant only for the men.

25:00

Now Paul confronts this with the instructions he gives to Timothy that, of course, are going to be for the church in Ephesus, because that's where Timothy has been sent to pastor.

25:11

That's in the letter that he is writing to Timothy. And so he says in 1 Timothy 2, I don't permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man.

25:20

And that instruction immediately precedes the qualifications for an elder.

25:27

So when we read about an elder, a shepherd or an overseer in the church in 1

25:32

Timothy 3, verses 1 through 7, those qualifications are only for men. And it says in those qualifications that it's for a man.

25:41

And that's after saying that a woman is prohibited from entering into that position or even a assuming the function of that position, as he says,

25:52

I don't permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man. And he gives the reason why and points back to the order of creation for man was formed first and then

26:05

Eve and the man was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

26:11

So because man was formed first and the woman was deceived first, this is the reason why she's not permitted to have that authoritative position of teaching in the church.

26:23

That's supposed to be for a man to fill. And we see this same sort of a thing being confronted in the church in Corinth, although it appears as if the

26:32

Corinthians were significantly more disobedient than the church in Ephesus was.

26:39

So Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14, 34, the women are to keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves just as the law also says.

26:54

So once again, Paul points back to the Old Testament as as to kind of cement this point.

27:02

So then in verse 35, but if they desire talking about the women again, if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in church.

27:14

And we're still talking about a woman assuming the position of a pastor there. We're not saying that women have to put duct tape over their mouths when they come into church and they cannot speak to anybody at all.

27:24

But but they're not supposed to be disruptive or say like, well, I don't understand that and kind of disrupt the flow of of the teaching that is going on, because Paul had been talking about order here.

27:33

This is in the context of things being done orderly within the church. So if there is something that a woman desires to learn, she's not to disrupt the teaching, but rather she is to ask her husband at home for the husband is the head of his household.

27:48

We see that throughout the scriptures. And that goes back to the law as well. Even in the Old Testament, the order of creation in which

27:54

God has established things. The husband is the head of his wife. We have it in Ephesians, chapter five, that a wife is to submit to her husband and the husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church.

28:07

The wife submits to her husband as the church submits to Christ. So here we go.

28:13

Anyway, before I rabbit trail on too many different things here. So in First Corinthians 14,

28:19

Paul is confronting the the misuse of spiritual gifts.

28:24

And it's interesting to note that where we see this misuse of spiritual gifts, we see women putting themselves in the position of that men are appointed to fill women in the position of teacher over men and in the position of pastor.

28:39

And isn't it interesting to consider that we see this even in our modern context of in very charismatic and Pentecostal churches, they will often have women in teaching and prophesying positions where Paul says a woman is not to be in it where he's talking here in the in First Corinthians 14 about prophesying and a woman is not supposed to be in one of those prophesying positions over the church.

29:03

So where things start to get pretty wonky as far as the misuse and misapplication of spiritual gifts, you will also see women being put in the position of pastor or functioning as a pastor.

29:17

Now, I don't know if that's what's going on in the scenario that you describe here,

29:23

Shelley. So let me come to these couple of paragraphs again. You say one of the topics was women in position of authority.

29:29

One lady shared that she knows of a very small church where very few men attend and none will step up to the positions that require a man.

29:37

That's already a problem. So if there are women in those positions over the men, that's a judgment on the men, because the men will not mature and the men will not fulfill the appointment that God has for them to step up and lead.

29:53

Now, that doesn't mean that every single man is automatically qualified to become a pastor.

30:00

We have those qualifications given in 1 Timothy 3, 1 through 7 for a reason, and it says there, let him be tested.

30:09

So he is going to be tested for that position to see if he qualifies. He must be able to teach, and then he must be able to meet all of those other character qualifications that are listed there in those passages.

30:19

And then same with deacon that you see later on beginning in verse 8. He's to be tested also and is to meet those qualifications before his appointment as a deacon.

30:30

So then Shelley goes on to say the church has deaconesses. Now, I, in the context of the instructions that's given there in 1

30:38

Timothy 2, I believe that a deacon, even a deacon appointment should be a man. That's not something that should be given to women either.

30:45

We can talk about that another time, like places where people will contend, well,

30:51

Phoebe was a deacon, you know, in Romans chapter 16. No, she wasn't. But we'll talk about that at another time.

31:01

There's a little more room for disagreement regarding the deacon position, but the pastor position, the overseer position has to be a man.

31:11

That's plain. Based on what said in 1 Timothy 2 and then the qualifications that are given in chapter 3.

31:19

So this church has deaconesses. A pastor won't step into the pastoral role or a man won't step into the pastoral role, but this church has deaconesses.

31:27

And now the men are offended and won't attend. So you see, there's some things that you're talking about there that are a little confusing and I don't really have the full picture.

31:36

So as you go on to say, in my belief, this is not a biblical church. They're definitely in biblical disobedience.

31:42

That's for sure. And you say they should disband for not following God's word. What is your take on this?

31:48

Well, to say that a church should disband or close their doors. I mean, we can say that, but how often does that happen?

31:54

It usually does not happen until there's just not enough people attending anymore to pay the bills or to turn the lights on.

32:01

And it's kind of like at that point, then the church shuts their doors. But does anybody ever really show up at one of these churches and say, you're not really a church, so shut your doors?

32:09

And the church goes, yeah, you're right. We're not. And then they shut their doors. Right now, if the church that you're describing is like the church in Corinth, then

32:20

I wouldn't necessarily say that this is not a church. And so therefore, they should just tear the building down.

32:28

What in the world are they even meeting for? Because again, as we see here in the church in Corinth, this church was disobedient.

32:35

Paul has been rebuking them for a whole list of issues that they've got all the way through this letter to the

32:44

Corinthians. It's a pretty harsh letter. They don't even love according to a biblical definition of love based on what's said in the previous chapter in chapter 13, the love chapter of the

32:54

Bible, love chapter of 1 Corinthians anyway. So as Paul is confronting this church with all the errors that they have, he does so because he loves them.

33:05

So you don't see anything in his letter to the Corinthians in either 1 Corinthians or 2

33:10

Corinthians. You don't see Paul say, look, you guys are just a mess. You're a false church. Why are you even gathering?

33:16

Shut your doors and they better be closed and that church better not be gathering anymore by the time I show up. That's not what he says.

33:23

He is rebuking them lovingly. He is speaking harshly to them because he wants them to repent and he wants them to be obedient to the instructions that were first given to them.

33:34

The gospel as it was first proclaimed to them. So he doesn't call them a non -church.

33:41

He doesn't even say this church is heretical and the gospel is not there because as I quoted to you a moment ago from 1

33:48

Corinthians 15 11, we preached and so you believed. They proclaimed the real gospel to these

33:56

Corinthians. These Corinthians came to faith in the true gospel of Christ. The true gospel of Christ.

34:02

There's just a ton of other problems that are going on in this church. So Paul is trying to solve those issues because he loves this church.

34:09

If there is somebody who loves that particular church that you're talking about, maybe one of the ladies that's there that you can talk to some of the men in your very own church, find somebody that will go to that church, maybe sit in on one of their prayer meetings.

34:24

You may not do it on a Sunday morning, but a Sunday night service or some other time of the week that they are gathering, sit in on those meetings and then go, where are the men who are not stepping up and filling those roles and come armed with the scriptures.

34:37

Be ready to read exactly what the Bible says about some of the issues that are going on in that church.

34:43

Be well read in 1 Corinthians because that may be the book of the Bible that they need to hear.

34:49

Some of the rebukes that come from the apostle to this church are therefore applicable even to a church in modern day

34:57

North Carolina. Okay, so should the church shut down? I don't know. You really haven't given me enough information there to say that for sure, but they're definitely operating in biblical disobedience.

35:10

They need to be called to repentance. And if the Holy Spirit is truly there and this church truly loves

35:16

God, then they will be convicted over the words that are said to them, this call to repentance, and they will turn from their wicked ways may not happen immediately, but they will begin making this direction toward biblical obedience rather than just doing whatever feels right, because that seems to be the way that the church is operating at the present.

35:37

So thank you so much for your question, Shelley. I'm going to conclude here with a what video and then we'll bring the program to wraps.

35:44

You'll be receiving that R .C. Sproul book in the mail. What? First Timothy 2 .11

35:53

says, let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. So according to the Bible, a woman is supposed to sit in church and be quiet, right?

36:00

She's supposed to keep her mouth shut and leave the talking to the men. Yeah, good luck with that, honey.

36:06

I love you, sweetie. All right, so that's not the meaning of that verse. Rather, it goes with the full instruction that follows.

36:12

I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. Rather, she is to remain quiet.

36:17

The context here is church leadership, which continues on into chapter three. Basically, a woman can't be a pastor or an elder in a church.

36:24

That's no less controversial, but it's what the Bible says. And this instruction is universal to all people in all cultures at all times.

36:31

It's not exclusive to the time period in which the Apostle Paul was writing this. How do we know that? Because Paul, exercising his authority as an apostle, goes all the way back to Adam and Eve with his explanation.

36:42

For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

36:48

So because Adam was formed first, and because Eve was deceived by the serpent, a woman is prohibited from being an authority in the church.

36:55

She can teach children, and she can teach other women. And she can lead others to Christ. Priscilla did that for Apollos, along with her husband,

37:00

Achilla. But she can't be a pastor. Any church that appoints a woman as a pastor would be in biblical disobedience.

37:06

There are other ways a woman can find godly fulfillment that a man cannot. But the authority in the church is commanded for men to step up and lead.

37:14

Was that a good explanation, love? Yes. Very good, sweetheart. Aw, thanks. And that's when we understand the text.

37:22

Hey, listen to that. Becky was able to get in on this episode of the program anyway. You know,

37:28

I did that video before this podcast launched. So that was really her debut to the what world was her short little snippets that she put in that video.

37:38

You can still find all of our videos on our YouTube channel, W W U T T.

37:44

Hey, if you submitted an email or a question for this contest, and I did not read your question,

37:50

I'm still holding on to it because I may read it in a future edition of the Friday Q &A.

37:56

You won't win a book because this was the only episode we were giving away books. At least these R .C. Sproul books. I might do another giveaway later on.

38:03

I was cleaning off my shelf and giving away duplicates. So if I find more duplicates, we'll do another contest.

38:11

How does that sound? Anyway, so you still may hear your question on the program, though you won't win a book for it.

38:17

But you can always send your questions either through the website or via email and and and you know, hopefully

38:24

I can respond to them even if I don't get it on the program this coming week.

38:30

So on Sunday, first of all, let me plug Sunday. I'm finishing up my Ruth study with my

38:36

Sunday school class. So you'll hear the final part. I think it's part seven of the Ruth study or part six.

38:43

It might be something like that. Anyway, that's this Sunday after I teach. If it gets recorded, all that works out.

38:50

It's going to be put on the podcast. So you should be able to catch that. Then Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. We come back to First Corinthians 15

38:57

Proverbs on Thursday. And God willing, Becky may be in with me for a Q &A on Friday.

39:04

Hey, let me finish with prayer. Heavenly Father, we thank you so much for what goodness and love you show to us through our

39:11

Savior Jesus Christ. I pray for those couple of questions that we got here. Hey, even if there's some matter in the

39:18

Bible that we disagree on a certain doctrine, may we be able to respond to those disagreements respectfully concerning this church that Shelley had written about?

39:27

We pray that this would be a true church of Christ, that they would submit themselves in obedience to the word of God, operating the way that you have said your church is to be, worshiping

39:39

God the way you have said you are to be worshiped. And if there's somebody that can go to this church and rebuke them for the unbiblical ways that they have been operating, may your spirit convict their hearts and they turn from their sin, be in obedience to the word of God and glorify you through the worship that is offered in this place, that the gospel would even go out from it and other people there in North Carolina would come to salvation because of this work that God had done in this church.

40:10

May you be working in our churches in this present day with all the craziness that's going on in the world, whether it's in Canada, the

40:17

United States, Australia, or anywhere else. Raise up godly men and women who are bold for the gospel of Christ, who are not going to be intimidated by their governments, but we gather together as the people of God to worship and glorify you.

40:31

We serve the true king who is seated on his throne. No one can recall him.

40:37

No one can unseat you. And it is around that throne that we will all be gathered one day in a chorus of saints singing your praises together.

40:46

We practice that every Sunday in church. Looking forward to the day that we are going to be with you eternally in glory.

40:54

Come quickly, Lord Jesus. We ask these things in your precious name. Amen. This is

41:01

When We Understand the Text with Pastor Gabe Hughes. There are lots of great Bible teaching programs on the web, and we thank you for selecting ours.

41:08

But this is no replacement for regular fellowship with a church family. Find a good gospel -teaching,

41:13

Christ -centered church to worship with this weekend, and join us again Monday for more Bible study when we understand the text.