Kent Hovind, Walid Shoebat, ChristianPrince, P&P---All on the DL!

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:29

Well, greetings and welcome to The Dividing Line. It is a Wednesday, actually.

00:34

Boy, we haven't replaced the calendar in here, so I have absolutely no idea what day of the week it is. You know,

00:41

I mean, it's like the end of January, and we haven't replaced the calendar. I mean, we've normally had one up there with pretty planes and stuff on it, but I guess

00:54

I don't rate one. Maybe you're just letting me know that you're taking over anyways, so I just need to be packing my stuff up and moving along, moving along.

01:03

It's good to be back. I was gone. You know, when you're gone so much, other people will take over, and that's evidently what was going on while I was gone, because I noticed the computer is a little bit farther away from me than it used to be, and, you know, things have been moved around a little bit here, there, and everywhere.

01:22

Yep, yep, that's what happens when the cat's away, you know, the proverbial mice do their thing.

01:30

Anyways, it's good to be back. We only have an hour on the program today. I can't go long because we started so late.

01:36

We will do another program tomorrow and try to get back to some of the series is and things like that, but when you're gone, all sorts of weirdness takes place and I am not referring to a

01:52

Donald Trump rally either, though I have to,

01:57

I need to find the video. I understand that Trump's people kicked a

02:04

Sikh out of a rally and they can't tell there's a

02:09

Sikh and a Muslim. It's like, yeah, OK, good.

02:14

Yeah, that's that's that's great. That's wonderful. Anyway, all sorts of strange things happen.

02:22

And while I was gone and this seems, you know, maybe it's just how you interpret things when you're traveling.

02:30

And by the way, I had a wonderful time while I was gone. Had one day out of 14 when

02:37

I did not teach. Started off at Reformed Theological Seminary there in Charlotte.

02:49

And since my favorite color is turquoise and I've been really doing a lot of turquoise recently, especially the lighter teal colors went real well in Carolina.

02:59

And I'm glad I got out of there before the Cardinals stunk it up there really bad. That was that was that was just I didn't see any of it.

03:09

I just heard four picks and two fumbles on the part of one quarterback that it had a bad case of.

03:16

OK, yeah, that's that may be on their best day with no mistakes. But when you do that, it's it's it's bad.

03:24

So anyways, you know, Charlotte's where the Panthers play and everybody was all excited and thought

03:30

I was a big, huge Carolina Panthers fan because I kept wearing their colors anyway.

03:37

Thought apologetics, by the way, had a great. I've been doing this,

03:44

I think this is the fifth time now I've invited, I suppose I shouldn't mention, but I invite a particular

03:50

Muslim apologist. It's not like it's a secret, I guess, but to join us via Skype.

03:58

And this year, this particular time, because we had done it last summer at Phoenix Seminar, now we are at RTS.

04:06

This conversation was probably the best we had ever had. And the poor guy stayed up to three o 'clock in the morning to do it.

04:14

And but the students really enjoy, you know, you set up a seat up front. You've got the class in the back and I use my laptop camera so they can see him.

04:26

He's up on the screen. He can see them. And he's well, he's literally halfway across the world. But you can have conversations, amazing what technology allows these days.

04:38

And we had one hiccup, it dropped once we reconnected. Other than that, we didn't even have the max headroom stuff that you frequently get with Skype.

04:47

It worked really well. And the students asked excellent questions. And it was, it was, it was great.

04:54

Anyway, we did apologetics at RTS.

05:01

And then I sort of moved from one part of Charlotte to another part of Charlotte.

05:06

And as some of you saw, it wasn't planned on my part. My hands are starting to work again.

05:13

I'm really, I'm really glad to be able to say that my hands are fairly functional now after the boxing match with Michael Brown.

05:23

Man, that hurts. Let me tell you something, that's a workout. Those guys that get in the ring and do that for, yeah, okay.

05:34

Obviously not something I do very often. But he was kind enough to allow me, he has a same type of rower

05:43

I have, except his has about 1 .5 million less meters on it. So boy, I need to have mine worked on.

05:49

It was nice and smooth. And it was great. But I set my 30 minute PR on the rower.

05:57

And Michael was sitting there. And there was an outside door. And he's sitting there opening and closing it to fan me toward the end of the, he goes, come on, man, you can do it.

06:05

You can do it. I mean, 30 minutes, 30 minutes of rowing. If you've never done rowing, trying to set your personal record.

06:13

I was working hard. He recorded the last 30 seconds of it or so and put it on Facebook.

06:18

But anyways, they kept me busy too over the weekend, pretty much morning and evening.

06:25

And then of course, Michael and I did four hours on his radio program. I listened to the second day on my ride today because it was cool because he asked some really good questions about what the practical differences are in how we do apologetics or theology because of our different perspectives.

06:49

And then we had a caller from Pennsylvania call in at the beginning of the second hour, basically saying,

06:58

I just don't see how you can, you two can be friends. And so we had, we had a second, the second day was, was, had some really good stuff.

07:07

We also had stuff on Mormonism and, you know, all sorts of stuff. Someone even called in about Coogee's, which, which is, which is, it's great.

07:18

I didn't ask about Coogee's, just raised the issue of Coogee's.

07:24

And, but, it's definitely an issue. That is for sure. So, and then

07:30

I went from, then I flew from Charlotte to Atlanta, just skipping. I had gotten snowed on during one of my runs.

07:38

That was interesting in Atlanta or Charlotte. And then that big storm came in and just dumped all over everything.

07:46

And managed in two weeks to run 100 kilometers during this trip.

07:55

Actually lost weight, not much, but given what you eat when you're traveling and the prevalence of fast food and things like that, that was pretty good.

08:06

That was pretty good. Went to Atlanta for the G3 conference, but I spoke before the G3 conference and after the

08:12

G3 conference on Roman Catholicism, on Sola Scriptura, and on the Marian dogmas, before and after.

08:19

And sort of took over the Q &A. Do you see that picture I posted? It's during the

08:25

Q &A at G3 and who's talking. And that happened a lot because I kept trying to explain to people,

08:34

Todd Friel is running the Q &A and Todd Friel will not allow for dead air.

08:43

Okay. I mean, he's the most intense interviewer and he wants no dead air.

08:50

It's boom, ba -boom, ba -boom, ba -boom. So when he asks the question, answer it.

08:55

And everybody, you know, you got a bunch of scholars sitting there and it's all like, who's gonna, who's gonna take it?

09:02

Who's gonna take it? He ain't gonna let that happen. He's gonna say something insane in the meantime.

09:07

So if you want to shut Friel down, you've got to answer. So I ended up having all sorts of answers during the, well, it's on the

09:16

Trinity too. Okay. It's still something I've done a little work on, a little defense of over the years.

09:22

So anyway, but the sessions were all great and we had great attendance and lots of folks at the conference.

09:33

And of course, Praise Mill Baptist Church does such a, it's P -R -A -Y apostrophe

09:39

S by the way, which is, most people figure if they hear it's

09:44

P -R -A -I -S -E, but it's not. Anyway, they do so much work and their people do so much work and Pastor Josh does so much work and it's a lot, it's a real commitment there.

09:56

But it was great to be there and flew back on Friday. I'm sorry, on Sunday and hence got to miss because I was on the plane the entire time, the slaughter of the

10:09

Arizona Cardinals. And so anyway, we are back.

10:15

And so while I'm gone, all this weird stuff starts happening and that seems to happen a lot.

10:23

I don't think it's because I'm actually someplace else. I think it just adds up or I don't know.

10:34

Anyway, and so weird stuff started happening. And the first, well, it's interesting the similarities between these things.

10:44

I'm not going to go in chronological order, but the first thing

10:51

I'm going to show you is a video. I could have shown you some other videos. I just didn't have the time to queue them up and I wasn't really sure that it was something

10:56

I wanted to do anyways. But this one, excuse me, this one I do want to show you.

11:03

I didn't even have my tea today. I figured it was just too short and I just ate lunch. So it wouldn't go well.

11:10

But I posted on Facebook while in Atlanta.

11:18

I don't even know what to do here, to be honest with you, because Kent Hovind seems to believe anything

11:29

Gail Ripplinger says. I mean, in the video that he posted a while back where he's talking with her, he stops at her house and they video this thing at like who knows when at night and then they're driving someplace else or something.

11:43

But she's sitting there. Remember, this woman's educational background is in interior design.

11:53

Okay. She's an interior designer. And she's sitting there talking about collating

11:58

Bibles in all these obscure languages and having learned these languages.

12:05

And he's like, oh, that's really cool. Really? You think she can read those languages?

12:13

Wow. I mean, the gullibility factor here is off the charts.

12:19

Absolutely off the charts. And so he's answering an email in this video he's put out.

12:28

And it is plain as day that Gail Ripplinger has come up with a new excuse for what happened in November of 1993 on KRDS radio on the

12:43

P .S. on the Air program, which was Pat Shaughnessy's program.

12:51

In November 1993, and you can go online, I put, we eventually put together a booklet.

13:00

I wonder if we still have an archived copy of that someplace? I know it's on the old vintage site, but I wonder if we still have a,

13:08

I'll bet you there's one stuck in the bottom of a box someplace. And what was it called?

13:14

New Age Bible Versions Refuted? Uh, what happened?

13:20

And this is the facts. Um, Dr. Hoven, um, I was there and we have the recordings and we have documentation going back to 1993 on all of this stuff.

13:34

Um, and you have nothing. You have, all you have is slander. You don't have any factual stuff to, and by the way,

13:42

I wrote to Kent Hoven and I gave him until yesterday morning, uh, to respond to the challenges

13:48

I, I gave to him on this issue. And of course he completely ignored my email, did not even bother to respond because there is no defense to this stuff.

13:56

It's just, you know, he accused me of being dishonest. I can provide the facts. He's the one who is being grossly dishonest in this situation.

14:04

And of course he is because he's just so gullible that he accepts what someone like Gail Ripplinger, uh, who is horribly imbalanced, uh, says to, uh, says to him.

14:15

Anyway, um, which of course, by the way, ends up really damaging everything he does.

14:24

If you're this gullible in this area, aren't you gullible in other areas like your areas of expertise?

14:30

Might want to think about that. What happened of course was a, uh, a volunteer named, uh,

14:37

Kathy called me one night and this was, this was back when I had my, um,

14:45

Camaro. Remember the Camaro? Yeah. The, the, the, the 1976,

14:51

I think it was a 76 Camaro if I recall correctly. That was one of the nicest cars ever had. I mean, it was 74.

14:59

Okay. I don't think they made the Camaro in 76. Okay. It was a 74. All right. 72, 74 somewhere.

15:04

You'd hit a valley or a dip in the road and it would bottom out. On the, on the way to, on the way to Utah.

15:10

Yeah. Well not only that, I had to, every time I stopped at a hotel when I drove up to Salt Lake to do witnessing, I had to remove the spark plug from one particular cylinder and replace it because it would foul so badly because the, yeah, yeah.

15:24

That was a fun car. Oh, it was, but I'll tell you what, it drove nicely. It drove nicely.

15:30

That was, they don't make cars like that anymore. Anyway, I remember I was in that car.

15:36

That's just what I remember. And, um, Kathy called and said, there's this really weird lady on the radio.

15:46

Uh, and she's staying, all sorts of stuff about the King James Bob. You gotta listen in. Well, I was heading, I was on my way home.

15:52

I was about to leave for home. I said, okay. So I tuned it in on the radio in the

15:57

Camaro on the what? 10 minute drive home, less than that. And I caught the very end of PS on the air and he was interviewing

16:05

Gail Riplinger and she was saying just wild and insane things about the

16:11

King James Bible. Now I had started studying King James only -ism back in Bible college when

16:16

I started taking Greek. And I even corresponded with the guy, David Otis Fuller, before he died of the witch

16:24

Bible society and had really gotten into it for a little while. And then it sort of, uh, you know, moved over to a side burner, shall we say for a while.

16:36

So I, I was familiar with King James only claims. And so I called

16:43

KRDS as soon as they get home and, but it was too late to get on the air. It was right last two minutes.

16:48

And so I talked to Pat Shaughnessy. I said, are you going to have anyone on that can responsibly reply to, well, she says no one will debate her.

16:58

I said, I will. Well, okay. I'll let her know. Okay.

17:06

So he gets, he gets my, um, I probably should get at least a thing of water. Um, I've got a little,

17:14

I did a long ride today and the air quality during the, during the winter isn't all that good.

17:20

So you end up having to deal with that. Anyways, I, I, I gave him a contact information.

17:25

He contacted me, says she will not debate anyone who has not read her book. Okay. So I go down to KRDS and I pick up new age

17:34

Bible versions and I read the thing and I am flabbergasted. I've said many times, there are more errors per page on Gail Ripplinger's works than you'll find in anything the cults have ever produced.

17:47

I mean, it is just that bad. It is irrational. It is just,

17:53

I mean, there is no concern for, there's no knowledge of scholarship. There's no concern for accuracy of context citation.

18:02

It's just lunacy is what it is. It's, it's lunacy. And so I put together, thank you sir.

18:10

I put together notes on the book and showed up at KRDS and we did two days.

18:20

Now the program is only half an hour. So it's like what? 21 minutes per segment or something like that. Ain't much time.

18:27

And she had been given days. I was given five minutes, five minutes to respond to days of her presentation.

18:37

So it wasn't really fair. And the second day there was a ringer that was allowed to call in.

18:46

Judy Penalto. Judy Penalto, who I don't think has a program around here anymore, but she did back then.

18:53

And who later would, would do a series called the public spanking of James White. Of course she wouldn't ever interact with me.

19:02

Again, most of these folks like monologues, not dialogues. We certainly challenged her and invited her to come on our program.

19:14

We'll just attack you and we will not answer for anything we say. That's pretty common. Pretty common thing.

19:21

It happens in politics too. Anyway, but it just went really, really, really, really badly for Gail Ripplinger.

19:30

And as far as I know, that was the last time she ever did any media appearances where she had to answer questions from a critic.

19:41

My understanding is she requires you, she sends the questions you're going to ask.

19:51

You can only ask the questions that she sends to you. She never engaged anyone ever again.

19:57

It was that bad. Throw the cassette tapes out. Are they still in that box? Yeah. So we have, we have cassette tapes going back to 1993 of these programs and that's what's on CERM Nadia.

20:15

Um, never has anyone made the allegation that Kent Holman is now making.

20:21

Never. Two things on that. I edited them together, pulled out the numerous commercials that were right in the equation.

20:32

But all, but all the, but all that's, yeah, that's what's there is it's all together. The other thing is, is that for them to think that you, why wouldn't you be in the studio?

20:43

The studio offices were like literally 10 minutes from where we live. Weren't they, weren't they on, they were just South of Dunlap, Black Canyon.

20:51

We had friends working there. Yep. Uh -huh. I know. I know.

20:58

Um, yeah. Yeah. So like I said, I was in the studio. She was the one on the phone. I was in studio and I remember it very, very clearly, uh, to this day, in fact.

21:10

And, uh, that booklet that I put together, my notes that I had taken to the radio set and I used one 20th of the notes because I was given so little time.

21:22

Um, that booklet became wildly popular and that's what led eventually to the writing of the

21:29

King James only controversy. So with that background in mind, let's listen to what

21:35

Kent Holman had to say and, uh, take it apart and, uh, let's see how this works.

21:42

Here we go. Thank you for answering my previous email about the pre King James Bibles. I might check out

21:48

Gail Riplinger's material. I just talked to her, uh, an hour ago in Virginia. She, uh, there's a debate of that Sam Gipp or Sam White, Sam White, James White, James.

22:01

Yeah, that's me. Um, James White. Hi. Um, big difference between me and Sam Gipp.

22:12

Though something tells me, I wonder what is Sam Gipp's view of Gail Riplinger these days?

22:19

Maybe someone would like to write him and ask. I could result in a really interesting

22:24

YouTube video, but hi, Kent, I'm James White. The King James only guy is named

22:29

Sam Gipp. And I don't know how you could confuse the two of us. Who's been, he said he did a debate with her.

22:36

He did not. She did not. She was on a radio program talking. He was just one of the callers that called in. Now, where do you think you'd get this from?

22:45

Gail Riplinger, Gail Riplinger. Now this was 23 years ago now, and Gail's not as young as she used to be.

22:55

Uh, maybe, maybe she's just, you know, not reviewed it recently, but anybody who listens to the audio, which is available on Sermon Audio.

23:07

Uh, if you just put in James White, Gail Riplinger, does that come up? Could you take it? If you look for that on Sermon Audio and make sure that someone can, um,

23:14

Google that. If, if you listen to the audio, it's painfully obvious that I am in studio.

23:21

They didn't have VoIP back then. Didn't have Skype. Um, I wasn't doing an

23:27

ISDN line from my house. I was in studio. Um, is it there?

23:34

If you, if you Google James White versus Gail Riplinger, um, the, uh, number of folks that, uh, have gotten ahold of it in the past have put it up on YouTube.

23:45

Yeah. So it, the first thing that pops is one from 2008. Somebody put it up on YouTube.

23:51

Um, I don't know that the Sermon Audio one is propagated. But if you go to Sermon Audio and put that in, will it come up?

23:59

That's, that's what I'd be interested in. Okay. I'll go. So you can go listen to it and you will see very clearly that I was in studio.

24:09

You will see very clearly that I had read her book. I did so because she had demanded that I do so.

24:18

So the fact of the matter is she knew in 1993 that I was in studio. Uh, why she would lie to Ken Hovind now could just be, you know, memories failing, uh, issues like that,

24:33

I suppose, or it could be purposeful because her works have always been filled with the kind of dishonesty that comes from cultic

24:44

King James only -ism. And there is a form of cultic King James only -ism where you actually, um, excuse lying about people, but it's because it's all in the service of the

24:55

King James Bible. Um, that's, that's something to keep in, keep in mind. He greatly edited out, he edited out all of her responses.

25:03

That's, that's going to be pretty interesting given, um, how much time she, not only does she have on the program, but the fact that we go back and forth.

25:13

So how could I edit out her responses when

25:18

I was interacting with her and we were just going back and forth? Like, listen to the, listen to the acrostic algebra section.

25:26

Um, how could I edit her responses out? Because I was asking her questions.

25:31

Well, where did you get this? Well, God gave it to me. Um, well then why did you call it the

25:39

NABV, uh, NAVB when it was the NASB all throughout the rest of it?

25:45

Well, that's what God calls it. How could I edit out? What's painfully obvious here is

25:51

Kent Hovind has not listened to the program. So he's willing to take slanderous falsehoods from Gail Ripplinger, not check anything out, not even listen to the programs and just throw it out there.

26:08

He's willing to attack the brethren, uh, on the basis of the words of Gail Ripplinger.

26:16

And he has not verified any of this for himself. Nothing, absolutely zip zero nada.

26:24

Now compare this with the three videos I did back in 2008 about Kent Hovind's King James only videos that were online at that time, uh, which he's going to mention here in a moment.

26:40

And you'll see the difference. Um, when I responded to Gail Ripplinger in the book and the

26:46

King James only controversy, I sent her the chapter, uh, asked for any interaction, any responses.

26:59

It got to the point where whenever I would send the fax, um, the fax machine would hang up after the first page, as soon as she saw who it was.

27:09

And even though I was absolutely transparent and completely accurate in her incitation of her fair in my citation, which she is not fair with anyone that she deals with.

27:23

I mean, she doesn't even know what the word fairness means on that level. Even though I did all that, uh, she threatened to sue

27:31

Bethany house if they published the book. I wonder why. Hmm. Like I said, this side likes monologues, not dialogues.

27:42

What? So what we've got up there is if you search new age Bible versions refuted, that's what it's called.

27:48

New age Bible versions refuted. All right. So if you go to Sermaudio .com search new age Bible versions refuted, you'll be able to listen to the whole thing for yourself.

27:57

You will be able to listen to what Kent Hovind has not listened to. Um, actually there's a lot of things obviously

28:04

Kent Hovind has not listened to. So if you see that James White thing where picking on Gail Riplinger and she's, you know, making a fool of her, that's because he's disingenuous.

28:15

Uh, that in English that means lying, deceitful. Okay. Not true. Yeah. So there you go.

28:22

Uh, I'm, I'm lying and he won't even bother to listen to the actual encounter because no rational person or honest person would be able to listen to the encounter and believe any of this stuff.

28:38

So this cultic kind of King James only -ism is based upon just believe what your leaders say.

28:44

Don't check it out. Check nothing out. That's what you have in this kind of cultic version of King James only -ism.

28:53

About what happened with that. So call Gail AV publications .com and I got an 800 number.

29:00

I just talked to her in the last hour. Let me get the number for you here. Contacts, logs,

29:08

Gail. Called her at 1052. It's 1152. So less than an hour ago.

29:14

Their number is, uh, I think that's the 800 number. Yeah. 262762511760.

29:24

2762511760. And say, Hey, it doesn't sound like an 800 number to me, but that's just me. It sounds like a 276 number actually.

29:32

What happened with James White? I understand he did a YouTube on me also.

29:38

We've got 200 views now, so I don't, I don't have time or interest. Yeah. 200 views, 200 views.

29:48

Well, you know, I decided to go sort of look around. I posted a graphic yesterday on Facebook.

29:58

I went into YouTube and, uh, I put in, uh, Hovind in my videos and I did three.

30:07

He brought up three back in 2008 over in my office over there.

30:13

And, uh, so I added up the total number of views of those videos and it was over 91 ,000 views, which is off from his estimate by 458 times.

30:32

Um, and again, it's obvious what he's doing here. Uh, the man knows he could not engage in a meaningful debate with me.

30:40

He knows that. Uh, he knows he does not know the material. It was painfully obvious when he was sitting with Gail Riplinger, he didn't know what she was talking about.

30:49

Um, he is pretending to have knowledge of areas that he has no knowledge of at all.

30:54

And he knows that if he was forced to engage someone like myself or myself in a debate on this subject, that the result would be catastrophic for him.

31:04

Um, and so you're, you're doing the dismissive thing. I only had 200 views. I don't have time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

31:12

The sad thing here is of course, that this man, uh, puts out information on biblical creationism and anyone watching this goes, yeah,

31:24

I can trust his use of the data. Sure. And that's the case.

31:30

I mean, he is absolutely destroying his own credibility by engaging in this kind of behavior and doesn't seem to care, which is frightening.

31:45

Uh, evidently time in prison did not do anything positive, uh, for Kent Hovind along these lines.

31:54

I got plenty to do without that. So, uh, some people can only get people to listen to him by picking on somebody else.

32:00

Like some of you trolls out there that don't even know how to spell the word new. I have no idea what that's all about.

32:06

Um, but something tells me if, if we were to compare the dividing line with anything

32:13

Kent Hovind does, that there really wouldn't be much of a comparison. So it does make you wonder what in the world he's, um, talking about.

32:21

Um, I don't know, but there's an example of a man who claims the name of Christ and yet clearly does not follow necessary biblical standards for truthfulness in dealing with someone he disagrees with.

32:42

Now this is the cultic form of King James only ism there. I have two others to respond to like that.

32:49

Um, this next one we can put, watch this.

32:56

Oh, I just gives you a gray screen and I can put it back. That's, I don't know what that was there before.

33:02

I think it was, I think that was there before. I'm not sure. Anyway. Um, we can, we can drop that cause we're, we're done with that now.

33:11

Um, uh, Waleed Shobat.

33:19

I had someone at one of my speaking venues, um, in Charlotte mentioned and, and, and source

33:29

Waleed Shobat. And I was very open in public. I said, uh, you, you do not need to trust anything

33:37

Waleed Shobat has to say about anything. Uh, I was very straightforward about it because he has gone absolutely positively loopy.

33:45

If he hasn't always been loopy, he's definitely loopy now. And he's become a

33:52

Roman Catholic. He used to bounce around in the neo evangelical charismatic realm somewhere.

34:01

And I did some programs here. What about a year and a half ago responding to some of his

34:06

Christian Crusader ism and some videos from his son, Theodore and, and it's next to impossible to meaningfully interact with the

34:17

Shobats because they just throw out, it's like stream of consciousness stuff.

34:25

It's just, there's no structure. There's no point. Uh, it's, and then there's this, and then there's that.

34:32

And then, and this, I've never thought about that. And it's just, I mean, it makes a Dave Hunt lecture look overly structured, which if you ever went to a

34:40

Dave Hunt lecture, you realize Dave Hunt never finished a lecture on the topic he began on.

34:47

Okay. And so, uh, but Dave could get away with that. And the Shobats is just end up writing these massively long articles about nothing.

35:00

They, they just, they go all over the planet. And, um, so someone sent me a new blog article or something from Waleed.

35:13

And I was just scanning through it. I wasn't spending much time with it because again, it was just standard shallow level, you know, all the

35:24

Ignatius stuff, Ignatius believed in transubstantiation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, stuff we've dealt with for years.

35:31

And, and, and serious people don't do this stuff because they know that there is a certain philosophical background necessary for transubstantiation to even be understandable that Ignatius never would have had.

35:45

And so I'm just looking through it and all of a sudden I see my name and I'm like, oh, well,

35:52

I wonder what this is about. So here it is. Um, but such a phenomenon is not just here with using questionable characters like De Rosa.

36:04

The bulk of so -called history used by anti -Catholic evangelical authors is tainted with major myth, excuse me, created by non -historians peddled as historians.

36:18

And I dare anyone to this. He loves to dare people to challenge that.

36:24

I brought up this issue to the top Protestant apologist, James White, where he quickly tuck tail and run.

36:31

I have the emails. And then there's a link to this very edited Facebook page where there's part of the emails there, but it's very difficult to follow.

36:45

And it's just so painfully obvious that he has, he has no idea how irascible, um, offensive, childish his languages.

37:00

I mean, uh, I, I, I, I just contacted him very briefly after,

37:09

I think his son Theodore had gone after Sam Shamoon and, you know, his initial first response was to the firewall, um, flamethrowers on full.

37:27

I mean, just, you know, referring to Sam as my sycophant and, you know, all this kind of stuff.

37:36

And the, the idea that, you know, and again, these guys, and there is some parallels here between Chubut and Hovind and the way they deal with facts.

37:50

These guys want to make it look like they're the big, you know, I've got big muscles and everyone's afraid of them and all the rest of the stuff that, you know, and I, I quickly tuck tail and run.

37:59

And, um, he goes on to say, this is no small issue.

38:05

The, this is no small issue. The evangelicals never addressed. Now, I don't think there's all sorts of questions about Chubut's background.

38:14

He claims to be a Palestinian terrorist and CNN has investigated him and stuff like that.

38:21

And, and I, I don't know, I'm not going to get into all that, but one thing is obvious is his new fascination with Rome would be very embarrassing to most

38:33

Roman Catholics, especially his arguments. Um, but they have to make it look like they have vanquished a foe and whether they've actually, you know, for me, what, what is satisfying to me is to have honestly, thoroughly with integrity, having engaged a person's position and having responded to it properly and fully.

39:12

Well, they acknowledge that are not so relevant. As long as I've sought to honor the truth, uh, to be fair, to glorify

39:21

Christ, that's good enough for me. I don't, this kind of stuff, why bother with it?

39:29

But that's not there. That's not why they do what they do. And so unfortunately, this seems to have also a cultural element to it that I did not understand.

39:43

Uh, Wali Shabbat is Middle Eastern and many people with a

39:49

Middle Eastern mindset confuse the loudness of the rhetoric and the temperature of the language used with demonstration of truth.

40:02

So if you yell loud and you insult your opponent appropriately, you win.

40:10

And it's sadly obvious the Shabbats do function on that level.

40:18

And the other thing that happened while I was gone is also relevant here.

40:24

And that is a Arab Christian by the name of Christian Prince.

40:32

Now that's a pseudonym, obviously. And I would assume as with so many others in this situation, this individual has family in a

40:42

Muslim predominated nation, area, whatever.

40:49

And therefore it is appropriate and wise to use a pseudonym rather than your actual name, lest some harm come to your family or whatever else.

41:01

Fine. So I do not know who Christian Prince is. I know people who do know, and I have not asked them to tell me.

41:11

I don't want to drag them into the middle of this. I don't want to cause issues for anybody.

41:18

Christian Prince has decided to start doing this. I don't know how many videos he produced.

41:27

Well, the term production there is a little, you know, anyway.

41:34

They're sort of rough in their production value, shall we say. Anyway, but he just started cranking this stuff out and it's invective filled, insult filled, ad hominem filled stuff that's really difficult to follow because it's sadly clear that the gentleman cannot follow the main thrust of an argument.

42:05

So he goes back and takes issue with the comments we made about Robert Morey's nuke the

42:14

Kaaba stuff. Instead of focusing upon the real issue, which is would nuking the

42:20

Kaaba end Islam? He decides to go after all sorts of other things.

42:31

You know, I had mentioned how many times the Kaaba had been torn down, rebuilt, and, you know, the one thing that remains consistent is the

42:37

Blackstone. He went off on the stuff like this, stuff like that, but didn't seem to get the point that, well, for example, it's well known today, they've run the numbers, the fifth pillar can't be fulfilled today.

42:57

The fifth pillar of Islam, hajj? The Saudis do not allow enough people in to perform hajj.

43:05

Given the number of Muslims there are in the world, the fifth pillar is already having to be somewhat, shall we say, spiritualized in the sense of the hajj of desire or whatever else, like baptism of desire.

43:19

But he just, he doesn't seem to get what the point is. And so he goes off after this little thing over there and that little thing over there that had nothing to do with what you were saying, you weren't even thinking about that, but that becomes his major focus.

43:33

And sometimes it just gets really childish in its utter lack of coherence, logic, careful thought.

43:47

So I started listening to the first one and then some others came out and I started to listen to two of those because they were coming out in rapid succession right as I got to Charlotte.

43:57

And after some incredibly infantile insult,

44:02

I just turned it off and I said, I'm sorry. Um, you know, when I, last night

44:08

I blocked this, uh, Roman Catholic kid that, um, was, he writes for christiansundivided .wordpress

44:22

.com. And, um, I guess now if anyone likes any of my tweets after I blocked him, he texts them with a

44:34

URL to this, um, questions for Christians. Where does your new Testament come from? Again, simplistic

44:41

Catholic answers level stuff that has been refuted for literally hundreds of years. But this kid didn't care.

44:50

And when you, you know, it's like, I don't, I don't need to read any books. I don't need to do any study.

44:57

I know my stuff. Um, it's like, um, okay. Uh, whatever, whatever you say.

45:04

Um, but same, same type of attitude, uh, on the part of Christian Prince, just no ability to show enough self -control and restraint to be able to look at another position.

45:25

And what was his, what got him going was that I dared to say that we need to be consistent in our analysis and our examination of what others have to say.

45:41

And evidently that's just a really bad thing, especially, especially if it means you actually have to listen to what a

45:49

Muslim is saying. No, no, no. You don't have to listen to what a Muslim is saying. Uh, they're all the same. And if you don't operate on that level, then you don't know what you're talking about.

46:03

And, and, and look up until last week, up until whenever this happened, all

46:09

I knew about Christian Prince was I had seen him cited numerous times by Sam Shimon. So I had a basically positive thought about the guy.

46:19

I figured he's involved maybe over there in that pal talk place. Um, uh, you know, where Sam hangs out, um, maybe, maybe he's involved over there, uh, done some written debates, something

46:34

I just, I'd seen some references, but I had a, you know, fairly positive thought that, well, this is someone who reaches out to Muslims and stuff like that.

46:44

Having now been the object of his, his scorn and ridicule. Um, it seems to me that a culture has developed in the internet where you have

46:58

Christians and Muslims just hacking away at each other electronically. And from both sides, it breeds the mentality that all

47:13

Muslims are like that and all Christians are like that. And if anyone says otherwise, then it seems to me that Christian Prince finds me to be a, a danger because if I'm right, and there are other forms of Islam and we need to engage those things at a, at a higher level, then, well, that means my arguments aren't, aren't always going to be the best.

47:46

And that kind of narrow minded, uh, dogmatism becomes really ugly, becomes really ugly.

47:58

And none of these folks seem to have the ability to say

48:04

I was wrong or I've been wrong about anything at all.

48:10

And that's pretty dangerous as well, which reminds me that, uh, this morning

48:17

I, uh, linked to an article from turrets and fan and, uh, sorry,

48:34

Chris Arnson, I'm on the air right now. Uh, my phone's ringing. It's, it's

48:39

Chris. Now he's got his own program to do. He's probably, it's just someone probably bailed on him.

48:47

He's going, help me. He knows the worst time to call. He just knows it.

48:53

Um, now where did, uh, where'd this go?

49:01

Okay. Here. I went to channel this morning and someone,

49:07

I forget who it was, mentioned that JD Hall had mentioned me on the pulpit and pen broadcast.

49:16

And here's the quote, uh, turrets and fan, uh, quotes it on his

49:21

Facebook page. Uh, it's kind of like when pulpit and pen did the post on the

49:27

Pope regarding his, the cross is a failure. Uh, Dr. White disagreed with me and instantly people are like, just admit that you're wrong.

49:35

Admit you're wrong. You never admit you're wrong. I'm confused. Why am I wrong? Oh, cause the smart guy disagreed.

49:42

Right. And then of course the Pope said the same thing this time with no humanly speaking, with no clarification, with no asterisks by it, we were right all along.

49:53

This is from the Friday podcast and turrets and fan puts together, you know, as is his want a series of rather obvious observations, uh, that make it clear, um, that this wasn't a matter of feelings and emotions.

50:20

It was simply allowing a man to define his own terms.

50:28

But JD doesn't think that that's an appropriate thing to allow for someone who is a heretic.

50:42

Now I certainly agree that the Pope is a heretic. This Pope is a hairy heretic.

50:48

This Pope is a fluffy heretic. Um, I don't think this Pope actually believes half the stuff that Pope's before him believed.

50:57

I think he's a universalist. I think he's a new agey liberal woo out there, uh, type, type dude.

51:07

And, but none of that is relevant to the fact that in that context, he did not say what the internet exploded into asserting.

51:22

He actually said, and the only way that you can come up with the accusation that he actually says that cross was a failure in the way that Protestants then spun that is to simply assume that as long as you're a heretic, heretics never say anything that's truthful.

51:44

They can never have a different context. You don't have to listen to the context. I have to worry about that. And they never say anything truthful.

51:52

Excuse me. One of the Pope says the sky is blue. Seems like these folks would find a way to disagree with him.

52:03

Um, and what concerns me is there are lots of real problems with the papacy, but when you manufacture things like this, when you do not even extend the slightest bit of grace to say, well, you know, he might've been, might've meant this, might've meant that let's look at the context.

52:23

So closer, let's not jump to conclusions. If you do that and end up grossly misrepresenting someone, then the argumentation against the real errors this person holds becomes weakened.

52:44

That's why, for example, I learned long ago in dealing with Mormonism, you don't multiply the examples of alleged false prophecies by Joseph Smith.

52:57

Because when you do that, once you get into weaker examples, all it takes is a

53:02

Muslim, a Mormon to find one weak example, they refute that.

53:09

And now they use that as their excuse to ignore everything else you just said. So what

53:14

I did in the letters to a Mormon elder is I focused upon the really unquestionable examples, but I didn't give a bunch of examples because I wanted to be the strongest ones.

53:26

There is plenty wrong with the Pope's theology. We don't have to be making anything up.

53:33

We don't have to be interpreting him in some wild fashion that his words do not indicate he actually meant it.

53:44

To say there are things specifically wrong with the papacy, the whole concept of papacy is wrong, the gospel of Roman Catholicism is wrong, you simply have to actually be focused upon what really, really matters rather than this multiplication of examples and this thing over there.

54:13

So why the idea, we'll be right all along, that sounds like Hovind and Shubhat and Christian Prince.

54:30

Why not just go, okay, this whole polemics thing needs to be done with grace.

54:43

It needs to be based upon grace. It needs to be bathed in grace. And if you blow it, you blew it.

54:55

Only people who think that you have to be infallible would have a problem with going,

55:01

I blew it. When Shabir Ali asked me for a reference in our debate in 2006,

55:08

I got the wrong reference. I know why I got the wrong reference. Remember that old

55:14

HP tablet? They were way ahead, man. When you think about that, that was touchscreen, had a hard drive in it, whole nine yards.

55:23

Of course, a hard drive would fail every little bit. Huh? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

55:29

No, it did not. That was like win 95. But when

55:34

I was trying to find that reference, it was HTML coding all over the screen. I got the wrong one.

55:41

Messed it up. Had to go back and say I did. None of us are infallible.

55:49

We all make mistakes. And if you judge someone and say, I will not listen to a word that person has to say ever again because they made a mistake.

55:59

Well, lolly, la la la, who are you? It's like, wow. I'm afraid the internet has created that kind of a mindset.

56:09

So I guess what we learned from all of this is there are certain folks just have a sort of a slash and burn mindset.

56:23

That if you dare think that someone you disagree with might have been right about something, you're saying that they're right about everything.

56:34

And that doesn't make any sense. That does not follow. There is no reason to adopt that mindset on anybody's part.

56:44

The Pope can say true things. When the Pope says

56:49

God exists as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you don't have to go, oh, we need to abandon the Trinity, which is exactly what people did sometimes during the

56:56

Reformation. Didn't turn out too well. Didn't turn out too well at all. So we need to be careful about things like that.

57:05

So like I said, it's interesting the stuff you find. And as I said,

57:11

I linked on my Facebook page, Detergent Fan's article on that, if you want to read a number of articles that he wrote that went through that particular subject in regards to papal statements.

57:25

Now, I didn't get to another papal statement, which we will get to next time tomorrow. But I told you, there's stuff coming next year.

57:34

There's stuff coming next year. I'm wondering more and more if that document that has been rumored to exist will not be promulgated next year, where the

57:43

Pope says the Reformation is over. Because he just went up to Sweden and visited the liberal

57:49

Lutherans. And the Lutherans and the liberal in Sweden.

57:55

And I just have a feeling.

58:01

I have a feeling we got something coming. But we'll start off with that on the program tomorrow. 3 p .m.

58:07

our time, 5 p .m. Eastern Daylight Time is when we will be getting together tomorrow and we'll kick off with that particular subject.