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Quite a bit of questions last time I taught on forgiveness I said some things that some people disagreed with and I'm glad because if we have and if we disagree with one another we want to make sure that if we do have a disagreement that our disagreements are rooted in Scripture and first of all forgiveness is a very complex subject.
It's not something that we can just come to and go. Hey it's no big deal. You have offended parties. You have people that have had grievous sins. We have some sins that we should be able to overlook first.
Peter 4th 18 says love covers a multitude of sins. So in today's case we're going to be probably dealing with most of things that we would struggle for to forgive someone based on how grievous the sin is.
I already okayed this with Keith so just tell you about an instance. Me and him had years ago when I first came here probably been here a couple years and he was counseling someone that I was counseling at the same time had no idea.
I mean I knew that they were talking but we had a disagreement on how on what was being said. Me and Keith had a very heated conversation over the phone and you know it was over and he called me and says hey I just want to make sure that we're okay.
I said brother love covers a multitude of sins and I only one way any shape form or fashion feel like you sinned against me. We have we both disagreed on how this this marriage should proceed forward and on and I said hey dude it's no big deal.
And that is how primarily we should interact with one another. You know those of y 'all that do know me and I'm not easily offended. I mean unless you come up here and punch me we'll probably be able to shake hands and it's no big deal.
But that being said there are people that are easily offended. So when we begin to talk about the forgiveness let's make sure that when we say that someone has sinned against us or that someone has offended us.
Well hey first of all we all agree that if somebody offends you that that could not be a that's a possibility they have not sinned against you. Would we agree with that. Okay because here's the deal let's say I commit a sin and he comes to me and and confronts me on that am I gonna be offended.
When he comes to me most likely I have never approached someone to speak with them in a sin in their life. That on the first time going to them that they don't read that they have received it in love and nobody likes to be polemic.
Nobody likes to have errors pointed out in their life. So if Amy came to me and he says hey this is areas in your life I see they're inconsistent with being a Christian and I'm offended at his words is what is my offense to him is he has he sinned against me.
And the answer is no. I may not like what the words that came out of his mouth but he did not sin against me. So when we talk about forgiveness and make sure that we're trying to seek forgiveness or trying to be reconciled to someone we need to make sure that what they have done has it is a violation of either God's law or that they have actually sinned against you.
Okay I'm gonna use a couple illustrations in 2015. In June of 2015 a boy by the name of Dylan roof walked into a Charleston church and he shot and killed nine people. Don't know if y 'all remember that that young a young man at his arraignment there was no no remorse for what he did at the sentencing phase.
He stood up let these people these church members stood up and said that they had forgiven him for what he did. They had forgiven him for what he did. They had forgiven him for what he did. They had forgiven for what he did.
And the quote from him and I can pull it up and and read it was this. I am in no shape form or fashion regret what I did. I don't want your forgiveness and I would do it again. You don't answer this question yet.
But were those church members right for telling that young man that they forgave him to that. One year later Pulse nightclub Orlando June 2016 Omar Mateen walks in there and guns down 49 people and then hit 53 others killing 49.
He wound up killing himself or getting being shot. A guy by the name of Angel Collin was one of the victims. He says I forgive that man for what he did. And I learned to forgive that man because I went to church and the church told me that I have to forgive him so I can move on in life.
They said don't have to answer this yet. Was that biblical forgiveness. The Amish community in 2008 West Nicolai Charles Roberts walks in takes the hostages ten lets the girls the boys out takes ten girls.
He shoots all of them. Five of them die. Roberts in a cowardly fashion then shoots himself. The Amish community comes out and it says we forgive Charles Roberts for what he did. And then told the mother we forgive you too.
Was that biblical forgiveness. December 10th 1974 a young boy by the name of Chris Carrier ten years old he was lured into a man's car. That man then took him out into secluded place stabbed him repeatedly in his back with an ice pick.
Then pulled a pistol shot him right behind the temple passing right behind his eyes leaving him for dead in the Everglades. So pastor by found him. He was still alive after six days of laying. He wanted to be in blind in his eye.
He did recover from his injuries although he was blind in one eye and probably mental anguish that none of us could ever imagine. 20 years later a man so this is 1994 was in a nursing home 77 year old man.
He called the police and he says I'm gonna confess to the abduction of Chris Carrier. He comes in statute of limitations had already been over there. He confesses to what happened the abduction why he did it.
They call Chris Carrier. Now this man blind and almost both eyes. And 20 years later and Chris Carrier says I want to see my abductor talk with him. So he goes to the nursing home and he sits down and he he talks to David McAllister that was his name.
And he begins to confess to Chris what he did. And he said Chris I ask you to forgive me. And Chris said David McAllister I forgive you. David said as I was repeating you stat as I repeatedly stabbed you.
You said father please forgive him. He doesn't know what he's doing. And he said that read that just resonated in his memory. Chris Carrier then continued to come see David McAllister for weeks months.
David McAllister eventually professed faith in Christ and him and Chris him and Chris Carrier remained friends up until the day that he died. Is that biblical forgiveness. Biblical forgiveness has to be rooted in scripture.
The scripture says that we are to just as God in Christ has forgiven you. So to you must forgive one another. So if we want to know how to forgive someone where does it has to be rooted in. Has to be rooted in the scripture.
And it has to be rooted in the way that God forgave you and me. First of all how did God forgive you and me. First he sent his son into the world. Want to be the propitiation for our sins. We were the offender.
God was the offended. Therefore God sent someone to reconcile us to himself. So there can be no forgiveness can't be complete apart from reconciliation. Would we agree with that. Would we agree with that.
And if you don't agree more than glad to stop me raise hands throw something at me. And I'll be more than glad to answer any question at any time. Forgiveness. Here's the definition of forgiveness when the offended party graciously offers to the offender to release them of all moral responsibility upon the offenders repentance.
Although when extending that forgiveness all consequences may not be released. Does anybody disagree with that. Okay. That's what biblical forgiveness is. God came to you and I through the power of his spirit awakened us from our deadness granted us repentance and faith.
Had we committed sins. I don't know about y 'all but I've got sins that still follow me today. Did God remove those consequences. No can he he can. But he doesn't always. So what is biblical forgiveness.
First of all forgiveness is transactional. Anybody want to say why or why. We would say that forgiveness is transactional. Or you want me just say well it has to be. Has to be a member. Our definition of forgiveness has to be rooted in what God has done.
I can't. You're not God. But I came to God said God. And what did God do. He forgave it. He forgave it. But was the transactional forgiveness. It was this. This is what people don't like. It was conditional.
It was conditional. A guy by the name of Lewis Smead wrote a book. And I'll give you some books that I've read. Some of them were bad dealing with forgiveness but a few of them that I read was more in the line of dr. Phil and Oprah Winfrey.
I'll just say this. How many people have said we forgive so that we won't be bitter. How many and people heard that I've got to forgive them so that I won't be bitter. That is the average definition of forgiveness.
And I'll tell you what that is nowhere in scripture. Shake your Bible up. Check it. Turn it upside down. Read it upside down backwards where you ain't gonna find it. Because bitterness does not dissipate by you forgiving someone because he says in Hebrews do not let a root of bitterness grow within you.
Look bitterness can grow in even after forgiveness. If you continue to to dwell on the very fact that that person has offended you. So it's conditional. Forgiveness is never unconditional. Turn over to Matthew 18.
Actually if you have ever read the whole chapter of Matthew 18 it all points to 15 through 20. And even the the proceeding the verses that go after that 21 through 34 also deal with 15 through 20 says here.
If if your brother sins go to him show him his fault in private. If he listens to you you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you take one or two more with you so that by the mouth or two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed.
If he refuses to listen to them tell it to the church. If he refuses to listen even into the church let him then be treated as a Gentile or tax collector. And truly I say to you whatever is bound in earth shall be bound in heaven.
Whatever shall be loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven. And again I say to you that if two or three of you I'm sorry if two of you agree on earth and ask anything in my name I shall do it for them.
But by my father who is in heaven and for where two or three are gathered together in my name I'm there in the midst. Do you see that it's conditional. If your brother sins against you and you go to him what does he do.
So if he if he confesses it's over right. Is that not conditional. If you go over to Luke 17 maybe it's Luke 15. I'm sorry. Here it is Luke 17 and we'll we'll start. In verse 3 it says be on guard brother.
If your brother sins rebuke him. Does anybody else say anything out there and rebuke anybody else say no. Everybody's a group rebuke him. And if he repents forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times again and he returns to you seven times and says I repent you forgive him.
Is that not conditional. If if if if he repents then we forgive him. Now how. This is normally the question. If I go to Mike because Mike has sinned against me and Mike doesn't repent then how do I not stay angry at him.
That is normally the thing that the case should we not have the disposition towards people that sin against us that God had towards us. What was God's disposition towards every sinner who's ever walked the face of this earth.
What's his disposition been is his anger towards the sin. But his disposition is to love and offer forgiveness freely to all of those that do. What the condition of repentance. And what. Sure it's conditional.
It is conditional I sent against Mike. Mike's heart towards me should be when I come to Mike and say Mike I stole your car and robbed a bank and ran all your gas out. What should you be ready to do. Should be ready to forgive me and say Mike I forgive you for stealing my car robbing a bank around the gas out.
That's exactly correct. And that doesn't mean you ever trust me again you know it doesn't mean you ever have to trust me again matter of fact you shouldn't trust has to be earned. Are you. Are you. Are you doing the okay.
Yes ma 'am.
And they they didn't ask for forgiveness or even wanted they didn't even believe.
But you know what I'm saying like I will do. I will answer that in two ways. Okay first Jesus didn't say I forgive you. He prayed to the Father to I believe that's an inspired verse and not to get the text to a variant situation.
But that actually was an axe and ended up in the seven sayings of Jesus when they harmonized it. I know I don't have the time to get into that right now it's an inspired text but it was moved from axe.
You know that who said. I remember Stephen. And if you look the exact quote it was put there. Now somebody wants to disagree with all Jesus said. Okay. But it was a textual variant that ended up when they harmonized the Gospels with some of the other writings.
It is an inspired verse but it was added to the seven sayings of Christ and at a later date. But if you do look even when when Stephen's being stoned did Stephen say I forgive them for what they're doing.
He did not. He says he prayed and interceded for God to forgive them for what they were doing. You see the difference. Or. No. Okay. Well he is interceding for his offender. Okay. Stop. Stephen's getting hit with rocks God forgive them.
He's praying that God would forgive them. And we do know that that prayer in Acts 7 at some time in the near future came about because who was standing there Paul under the name of Saul. And he was holding the cloaks of the men that killed him.
Okay. But Stephen did not say God I forgive them. He didn't say that. Neither did Jesus. Even if you want to say if we wanted to agree that Jesus on the cross said that he did not say God I forgive them for what they're doing.
He interceded for his offenders to still that God would have God would forgive them. Okay all right. You look.
Like you I lost you somewhere. But forgiveness is always for the purpose.
Of reconciliation. When God forgave us. What did he forgive us for. For the purpose. To be reconciled to his father. To be reconciled to his father. Look all through Scripture. You even go through in Corinth when the man would sleep in with his basically his stepmother.
When he repented what did Paul have to rebuke the church. The the church of Corinth in in 2nd Corinthians you remember they wouldn't let him back in after he repented they wouldn't be reconciled. And as long as it depends on you and me what does it say in Romans long depends on you and me.
We should live at peace with all men. So you could even go to as far as to even say if you know that you're what is the other. It's saying the gospel Jesus said hey if you know you your brother has ought against you leave it leave the gift.
Now that doesn't always mean there's a sin involved. Look me and Mike may just have conflict with one another. But what am I supposed to do before I worship. I'm supposed to do that. And man whatever it is whatever I got to do we have to make this right.
So I can't worship in my heart and spirit. And in truth knowing that me and my brother have conflict with one another. So forgiveness is transactional. There has to be. Mike I have sinned against you.
I keep you use you because you're a closest person I'll use you in a minute. Mike I've sinned against you. This is what I've done. And Mike's response biblically would be like I stole your car did this and Mike says I forgive you for stealing my car.
If I go to if I go to Mike and say hey man I stole Mike's car robbed a bank and I say hey man I'm sorry I ran all the gas out of your car. It does not cover it. Yeah it doesn't it doesn't work. Because the offense was not running the gas out of his car.
It was stealing your car robbing the bank. Okay. Anybody else questions protests demonstrations before I move forward.
Bitterness. Okay you said that uh. Well let me just say what I've written down here does bitterness mean that you haven't actually forgiven if you're.
Still bitter about it. I would say yeah here's the thing if I go to my I'll use you I'll offend you I'll offend you and I come to you and I say hey man whatever those infraction is we're not talking about a harsh word.
Okay we should be able to cover those types in love. Right. Okay I agree the sin against you and I come to you and you say I forgive you. But then you turn right around you slander you backbite you talk bad.
Defend character. I mean all those things. Well what was the evidence that you've not forgiven all those things. Now dealing with those in your mind sure has people sinned against us in such a way that as we work through that and we say that we forgiven we've got those thoughts come from our mind.
They still make us angry. Right. Is is is anger thinking of those things. And the the situation being angry at the injustice that happened is not wrong but wrath and malice towards the individual that did it is and that's difficult.
A civil back and I think it's a 2009 civil. A friend of Sybil's was stabbed 31 times over off a street and the boy was 17 years old. Obviously it killed her and the parents of Sarah when they did not give that boy the death penalty.
Here's what their disposition towards him was. We are glad that he that the death penalty was taken off because now we can pray and God'll have that much longer to bring him to faith in Christ. Dude that right.
There is not being angry and malice towards the end of I don't know if I could do that man I would pray that my disposition towards that situation would be that. But dude that's something to swallow. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah that's a that's tough. But dude that's that is a that's a person that's trusting that the what the Lord's gonna do is just bit what does it say in Romans 12. You think you get bent you get angry at towards someone and you have a hard time dealing with the bitterness.
Just go to Romans 1. Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord I will repay. Leave room for the Lord. Leave room for the Lord. He'll take care of it. Look does God not know how to take care of sin. Look at the cross.
He took care of it on the cross so that every person in this room that has faith in him he took care of me to go forever. And he's threw it in the depths of the sea cast as far as the East is from the West.
And we never have to worry about that again as far as it being held against us in judgment. Hey but those people that have offended us and we want to lash out in anger and malice. Look man God knows how to do that.
God knows how to fix that. We wouldn't do it right. Anyway how do you ever seen a movie or read the book of time to kill. Remember what Samuel Jackson did in that movie. Hey rate his daughter a rate and beat his daughter half to death.
He goes and gets a machine gun guns them people down but he can't. He hurts innocent lives. And in the process that's how we would do it and be unjust. Although when you think of that movie like man when he goes in and he started getting those people down we're going.
Yeah it's wrong. You know what I mean. It's wrong. We chuckle about it but it's wrong. It is wrong. It is wrong. Yeah it's wrong. It's wrong. So when I was talking about Louis Smead he wrote a book. I'm gonna I wouldn't recommend reading this book but it is in the Christian section.
We hurt we hate. These are these are chapters. We hurt then we hate. Listen to this. And then we heal ourselves. How do we do that. Then it says chapter 6 says forgiving invisible people. In other words forgiving institutions that have wronged us.
And then forgiving people that have hurt us and her dad all right. Forgiving those who have offended us that we can no longer be in contact with. It says we can forgive those people. The Bible says we can't have complete forgiveness apart from confrontation transactional forgiveness.
And it's all conditional on that person confessing and repenting. And then it goes on to say forgiving people who don't care. Was that not the that Dylan roof guy those that church offered forgiveness to that boy.
And you know what he said. You remember what I said. He said he said he'd do it again. And he didn't want it. So how are you gonna forgive somebody. One who doesn't see what they did was wrong. Does that not impugn God's justice.
Just check out for a minute. Does that not. It did he see what he that church was offering forgiveness to a person who did not think that murdering nine people was wrong. So they offered forgiveness that God wouldn't even do.
God wouldn't even do that. What's what's that. I would say. I wouldn't say that God shut that boy's eyes. His own sin did. Sure. But he. But he came into the but he came into the world already depraved and all he did was seek out that depravity.
It wasn't like he came. Dylan roof didn't come into the world being an innocent little baby. But he knows. Because he will stand before God on the Day of Judgment. And what he did was wrong. Hey me and Lance know each other by the way.
Let me. Then it goes on after that to say you should learn to forgive yourself. I'll tell you what that is. That is one of the most retarded retarded dist things to say. How many people here have ever offended themselves.
Did you stand in front of the mirror and ask yourself for forgiveness. Mike I punched yourself in the jaw today. Would you forgive yourself. Sure. Mike I forgive you. Then hang on. But if you listen to this progression.
Okay listen to this. And this is absolute heresy. And this isn't a Christian section. In a Christian book the man claims to be a Christian. Then learning to forgive God dude. You follow that progression.
That's where you end up. That's where you end up. God owes nobody an apology. That's where you end up. Did you can be angry at God for what he's allowed in your life. I know if you want to be angry about God for what he's allowed in your life you go to Job and see what Job said.
You go to Habakkuk at the end of that Syria. Both of them. I'll stand here with my mouth shut and give me my medicine. Now has to be transactional. It's conditional. And it's always like we said for this reconciliation.
Now can this step be very hard. Let me just say this. I go to Mike. He I can. I can conditionally come to him for the repentance. The transaction for forgiveness takes place. Mike I did this. You say I forgive you for what you did now for me and Mike to worship in the same room together.
And to have the fellowship with one another. This may take some time. He made it be hard for him to stomach me. And being in the room he may get uneasy when I walk out her by his car to get my car so that.
Mike that's gonna take some sitting down. Hey you know you want to learn how to do this. Good get married. Hey you want to perfect this get married. I see you back there. Smiling. Andy. Is that not true.
Andy. Yeah. Now we shouldn't grievously sin against our spouse. But you'll learn to do this should learn to do it on a much lower scale. But all this is involved every time we sin against one another.
Such a way we say something to one another that can't be covered under love. This is it go to that person confess and repent that transactional takes place that I forgive you. And then if it takes a time of restoration and working through those things.
That's what we got to do. And that is difficult. Yes.
Anyway it was neat how it's congruent even to the Old Testament 2nd Chronicle 714 if my people which were called by my name shall humble themselves and then there's the then additional statement then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their land.
So that's even the Old Testament to. It is pretty neat. But I had one point back to the you know your wife and friend that got stabbed in the whole death penalty thing. So it's just difficult because like my mom Ted Bundy she was in college there she was one storm over from the sorority house where he broke into.
Yes sir I'm listening to you know just the aspect of like you know desire the death penalty for him because there was friends that you know had gotten hurt and killed by him you know. So how do you reconcile desire the death penalty which is God righteous judgment with which is righteousness with still the aspect of forgiveness if somebody doesn't get it well in in their.
Case they they they the death penalty was on the table. Okay it was. They said they were thankful that it was taken off so that he had longer time to repent that God could work in his heart. They didn't say that death penalty is unjust.
They just said that they were fine with the decision to remove it. And you can I could pull the article up from her dad actually saying we still feel that this judgment was just that was his exact quote from the father.
We still feel like this judgments just hey but if the Paul I'd have to look I think it's in it's either an axe 25 or axe 15. I'd have to go back and look. But Paul standing before one of the magistrates being questioned about his he says look if I've done anything under the law that deserving of death he said put me to death.
So what would Paul affirm. Right there Paul would be affirming the death penalty winning look the state has the power of the sword. And going back to that little instance like I've talked about in John Grisham's book or in the movie a time to kill Samuel Jackson he didn't have the authority to take that to his own hands.
God's given that to the to the state. Look I'm not saying that our emotions don't run high and stuff like that. Look I'm not saying that I'm not saying I wouldn't have felt the same way that he did. And I ain't saying that I wouldn't have acted in the same manner that he did.
I hope that I wouldn't. But you know sometimes say hey I'm not saying it was right but I understand it would be wrong for us to take that because of what it says in Romans 12 vengeance is mine. I will repay leave room for justice for God.
I'll take goat over to Genesis and you're right it even the Old Testament it's always conditional always. But hey there's nothing new in the New Testament that wasn't rooted in the old look a person sinned and they went to the temple.
Their sin wasn't quote under their understanding propitiated until the time of Christ. If they didn't do what. Bring a turtle dove ox whatever the required thing was they get. Yeah it was not covered.
It was if you sin and you do this. Okay I'll remove my judgment for a time. But go to chapter 50 and hey when I taught through Genesis I don't know if anybody was in here. Maybe Lee and Ann were in there and paying.
I think I talked through Genesis when this used to be the other one. And when I got to to the time of Joseph and we're getting to that with with with Keith if you can't read through the story of Joseph and and your heart not be turned and warned.
And and there are some of the most kindest most gentlest reactions of Joseph towards his his offenders. I mean the people that actually offended him and he his response was never in anger. Never mind.
You can go back to when his brothers came in and he saw who they were he he tested him to see if their their sinful hearts had been changed. Yeah was he testing them through somewhat of a deceptive manner.
Yeah to see if it was genuine. But when you get to the end of the of the book chapter 50 we'll go to verse 15. It says when Joseph's brother saw that their father was dead they said what if Joseph bears a grudge against us.
Well why would Joseph have more grudging. And they may remember sold him into slavery. They were gonna kill him. Reuben steps in says don't do it. We could probably get some cash out of the deal. They sell him into slavery.
It says what if he holds a grudge against us and pays us back in full for all the wrong which we did him did Joseph under the authority of the Pharaoh have the authority to impose some type of judgment against those men.
He sure did so they went and sent a message to Joseph saying hey your father's charge us before he died saying thus you shall say to Joseph please forgive I beg you the transgression of your brothers and for their sin.
For the for what they have done to you was wrong. And now please forgive the transgression of your servants of the God of your father. And then it says this. And Joseph wept when they spoke to him. Then this his brothers came and fell down before him and said behold we are your servants.
But Joseph said this. Do not be afraid. Look let's listen to what he says. Am I in the place of God. Look he had the authority to do to them whatever he wanted. But because Joseph had forgiven his brothers he said you know what.
Am I the one to be in the place of God. Am I the one to do what only God can do. I don't know about y 'all. But I don't think any of us have ever been sinned against the way Joseph had sold into slavery wrongly accused accused of rape.
Then interpret a couple of dreams for somebody to get you out of prison. And you wind up being in prison longer. You know. And then you see the people that actually sold you into slavery come in wanting something that you have.
And he graciously forgives them any questions. We have about a minute and a half. I didn't finish. We'll finish in two weeks. Now we're good all right. Daniel pray us out.
In the bathroom over. Thank you for this time study. We thank you that we have a place to come to you away from the world for just a little while. Over be with like-minded people. Thank you for this study you know.
Maybe take it and think on it use it so you better so that without we just ask that you will bless Keith this morning as he comes give him the liberty of his calling Lord and bless us. Those that will hear we may understand those things as well.
Thank you for your goodness and your kindness. Most of all we thank you for your son Jesus.