Baptism for Baptists

We're going to continue on in the confession and for my portion tonight.

We're actually going to be looking at three Articles, but don't let that frighten you because it's three articles on the same subject So it's not as if we're going to be jumping from subject to subject subject the reason why I? Wanted to do these three articles because they go together And I want to say something in the beginning that may sound somewhat Controversial, but I think that it will be at least Understandable when I'm when I explain it all Christians are Baptists Now you walk into a Methodist church or Even worse you walk into a Catholic church and say that you might get a hymn book thrown at your noggin But the truth of the matter is all Christians Baptize Therefore all Christians are in one sense or another Baptists really where the category falls is whether you are a Pato Baptist or a credo Baptist and That is the terms that are typically used Pato-baptism means that you baptize professing believers and their children that's important because People think of pato-baptism that infant baptism.

Well.

It is infant baptism because they baptize when the child is born but Let's say for instance Matt and Anna you guys are coming to the church and your babies are how old? 20 months and three months so you have an infant is that qualified infant, but she's like toddler age rather getting to toddler Yeah, so so They if you were going to a church that practiced pato-baptism And you guys had never been baptized the idea would be that we baptize y'all and they would expect to baptize Your two children so by calling it infant baptism.

It's not it's it's more specifically Usually I think better said family baptism Is how it's better described because it's not always an infant necessarily and The only time that a child would not be baptized in a pato-baptist church.

Let's say you guys came in Let's say you had a 13 year old and let's say you're 13 year old.

We're going through a time of rebellion and She or he was saying I don't want anything to do this Jesus stuff.

Well, then they probably wouldn't baptize that child That's just I've asked I've asked some of my pato-baptist friends.

Would you baptize a 13 year old rebellious child? They say no, you know, and so there is a sense in which if they reject the gospel they wouldn't baptize them, but they do baptize the children of Believers provided those children are young enough to not be able to make the decision on their own and that is What we call pato-baptism now credo baptism comes from the the Latin Credo, which means I believe and so the idea is that it is a baptism upon profession of faith therefore Remind me Kristen She says beautiful, but you you in your smile is wonderful But you cannot make a profession of faith because you don't understand what I'm saying Neither can Henry make a profession of faith because he really doesn't he might understand a little bit of what I'm saying as he gets Older he will but as at this point if I sat down and I said Henry, do you know that you're a sinner? He would say I don't know.

I don't know what that means at this point He might understand a little bit But he's not going to understand it to the point of recognizing his need for a Savior and so we would say that credo baptism is is Predicated on the fact that someone can know that they need to be saved That it's predicated on the idea that they can they know that they're a sinner They know that Jesus is the Savior and that they have received him by repentance and faith But everybody's a Baptist because both are baptizing both are baptizing and Out of curiosity and we won't get to the confession.

I always do this I always do this build up to the actual lesson.

This is what takes so long.

I have these long introductions But by by show of hands, which do you think is the is The most practiced in the Christian world would it be pedo baptism or credo baptism? Would you say pedo or credo? pedo by far of those who identify as Christians And again, I'm counting in that Roman Catholics because they do identify themselves Even though we would disagree with their theology on many ways they would they would call themselves Christian and they of course practice pedo baptism Historically which one's more popular Hmm.

It's actually paid up the the pedo Baptist tradition Goes all the way back to the second century.

There's writings about it in the second third centuries it began to be very popular after Augustine and And that would have been fourth fifth century, so we see Particularly the rise of the Holy Roman Empire and the rise of the Roman Catholic Church.

We see Infant baptism become how you become part of the Empire In fact when I first became a pastor here I was told by a previous minister that I had to be very specific about how we do baptismal certificates Now I've since not done them anymore But back in the day before I was the pastor our previous pastor He said baptismal certificates in some areas can be used like birth certificates So they have a legal binding.

So you have to be careful how you hand And that's why I just sort of just got away from all that nonsense because I'm not worried about it But but in some countries and this is how you are identified as part of the citizenship This is how you're identified into the community You're baptized a Christian, and this is a Christian nation or a Christian town or whatever think about it Why did we call Luther and Calvin and Zwingli? magisterial reformers Why did we use that term? Because they had the power of the magistrates the power of the civil government on their side Calvin had Geneva and and and Luther had Germany and they had the Magistrates on their side.

How did you become a Christian? you bet you became or how did you become a citizen by being baptized you were baptized into the nation and So there's it's one of the reasons why I believe that infant baptism had such a hold on the Reformers Because the idea that we give up this this thing that makes everybody a Christian from birth.

We can't give that up We can't abandon this this strong tie of community that everybody who is born is born into the Christian faith Everybody who's born here you understand.

So yes for for for hundreds of years pedo-baptism was the Hallmark among Christians you say well then 1,800 years 1,500 years.

Okay.

How can they be wrong? They can be wrong.

They can be wrong and Because here's the thing if you go through the historical accounts of why they practice infant baptism You go all the way back to the beginning.

Do you know why infant baptism was so popular? Especially prior to the Middle Ages and during Middle Ages It was because they believed that because children were born in sin and we believe that we believe in original sin they believed that a child had to be baptized at birth to remove the guilt of original sin To remove the taint of Adam's sin.

In fact, if you look up the Roman Catholic teaching on baptism and I went ahead and did it for you I went and looked just to make sure I don't want to say something that was wrong their teaching is that baptism creates regeneration in the heart of the person receiving it because they believe in the Sacraments actually doing the work.

So the baptism of the child creates regeneration in the heart of the child.

Therefore the child is Now regenerate They're now no longer Bearing the sin guilt of Adam It's baptismal regeneration Now the Reformers didn't believe that Luther did Lutheran still believe in a form of baptismal regeneration That's an important distinction between Lutheranism and Presbyterianism Lutheran still hold to a certain type of baptismal regeneration Even though they would say they believe in Sola Fide.

They do Luther believe in Sola Fide, but he couldn't give up the sacramental System, he couldn't give it up when it came to the table He still believed in the real presence of Christ in the bread and the cup.

He couldn't give it up when it came to baptism He still believed that baptism created the regeneration of the soul.

You look at his writings.

Yes Luther believed in what is called Real presence real presence is not the same as transubstantiation Transubstantiation means that the elements become Through the process of the change of substance the body and blood of Christ Whereby Christ is then sacrificed again on the table in a non bloody way for your sins So the mass becomes a propitiatory sacrifice for your sin That's Roman Catholic theology.

There's more to it than that But ultimately it's the idea is that it's a propitiatory sacrifice Luther did not believe the mass was a propitiatory sacrifice, but he did believe that Christ was physically there He believed in real presence so there is a distinction between Lutheranism and Catholicism when it comes to what they believe is happening, but they both believe that Christ is physically present in the bread and the cup Calvinists don't Calvinists believed In what's called spiritual presence Baptists tend to believe in the Zwinglian view which is the view of memorial presence Which of Christ is not physically or spiritually in it But that this is memorial to the once-for-all sacrifice and depending on when I say Baptist The 1689 presents the spiritual view of Calvin.

So Let me back up and say We as Baptists our church holds to the memorial Memorial view am I Did that answer your question, okay So having said all that when we when we talk about infant baptism when we talk about this distinction Calvinists the Reformed churches Have a different view of infant baptism than did the historic church When I say the historic church Roman Catholic Church The historic Catholic Church believed that the reason why you you baptize babies was to create regeneration in their heart Calvinists don't believe that Calvinist Presbyterian Calvinists would say the reason why you baptize babies is because baptism is entrance into the Covenant Abraham's children entered the Covenant through circumcision our children enter the Covenant through baptism Therefore if you have a child your child is in the Covenant because you're in the Covenant your child gets to receive the sign of Baptism the same way Abraham's children receive the sign of baptism and there's a Greek word for that It's baloney.

It is it's absolutely because there's no biblical precedent for infant baptism I've done it.

I've done a publicly moderated debate on this subject I stand by it and it's one of the reasons why I could never join a Presbyterian Church I've been asked if you were in a church if you were in a town that only had a Baptist Church in a Presbyterian Church But the Baptist Church wasn't reformed.

Which one would you go to I would go to the Baptist Church because I cannot sit under a Church that baptizes infants.

I'm that committed to a to the proper view of baptism.

Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely No, brother I'm with you and I'm one of the first to say these these baptismal pools shaped like dump trucks and Garbage or not dump trucks, but fire trucks, you know There was a there was a pastor up north had a fire truck baptismal so that at the end of every VBS They they blind the kids up who wants to get baptized they'd get in there.

Whoa lights go off You think I'm like if I'm lying I'm dying it happened and The whole idea was we can get all these kids It's just like brother Andy said when your pay is determined on how many baptisms you can get You don't think I could walk down to that room right now to where the young disciples are meeting and we got kids meeting They're from age four all the way up to age 18 You don't think I could walk down there and guilt half of those kids into getting baptized tonight if I wanted to if that were my motivation Absolutely, that is the danger of credo baptism because what we're saying is we're saying we only baptize those who make a Profession of faith and then we have to say a credible profession of faith Go ahead, brother.

You wanna So it's not just babies it's not just the kids though, it's it's many churches That's right Yeah, absolutely You know Yeah Roman Catholics believe you can lose your salvation Most people who believe in baptism regeneration believe you can lose your salvation the Church of Christ the historic Church of Christ believes the same thing Okay, they don't have the same theology as you they don't think in the terms that you're thinking in right now because you're thinking in The right terms and they have a very askew verse or a very askew version of what you're trying to say Because what you're saying is you're saying when a person's saved they're actually saved and they're saved forever But in Roman Catholicism, you can be saved today and lost tomorrow if you commit a mortal sin It removes the grace of justification and you are no longer saved Yeah Well, it's so many I mean, yeah, absolutely Yeah, absolutely, yeah So yeah, so that so it's a category issue.

They believe yeah, of course these children are Saved as infants, but as soon as they sin they lose their salvation They got to get it back and that's the whole reason for the mass You understand Roman Catholics don't go to church to necessarily worship and enjoy what Christ has done They go to mass to receive the benefits of another sacrifice done on their behalf and they can receive thousands of masses Throughout their lifetime and still die impure You ask a Roman Catholic priest.

Is it possible that I could go to mass every week for my whole life and still die? And go to hell he will say yes Because the finished work of Christ is not complete.

It's not finished You have what what is purgatory purgatory is the place that you go to after you die to continue the purging of your sins Because you didn't have enough of it purged in this world It's another it's one of the seven sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church That was another part of the Reformation the Reformation made the argument that there were only two sacraments Which we call ordinances, but the sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church are Let's see if I can get all seven of them Marriage marriage baptism the mass Confession Last rites I Don't remember there's seven of them and each each all of them are Means of grace to the to the person.

Yeah, I said that mass Yeah I said that one but their means of grace their avenues of grace the church remember in Roman Catholic theology the church is the dispenser of grace Therefore it this is what was so scary during the Middle Ages about getting Excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church if you were excommunicated you were cut off from the faucet of grace Because the church is the spring or the fountain the faucet from which grace flows and therefore if you Wilma were removed from the church You're removed from the potential to be saved because the grace of salvation comes through the church That was what the the indulgences were the purchasing of that Indulgences They're Catholic and believe in abortion They're planning to buy Well, a lot of them just don't believe it.

I mean, I would say many many professing Catholic politicians are Kino, you know Catholic in name only like a rhino a Republican in name only, you know, I'm making that up But yeah, they're just in name, you know, they don't really care most of these most people Who want to have some religious affiliation don't really believe what is in fact The Pope said that Pope John Paul the second in the 80s back when I was a young man watching Transformers He was out there making speeches and one of the things that he said was he said he was tired of cafeteria Catholicism and What he meant by that he says all you Catholics out here who think you can have this and not take this and do this And not do this.

He says you can't do that.

It's an all-or-nothing deal.

This was John Paul II He said there's no such thing as cafeteria Catholicism.

You take it all or you take nothing So if anybody really like we'd like to read on there's a great book.

It's called Roman Catholicism and by Lorraine Bettner Mm-hmm Really have an interest in learning what the Catholic Church teaches you regardless of what they say You get copy of that.

It's called Roman Catholicism by Lorraine Bettner and it'll blow your mind.

Yeah Anything you see about Lorraine Bettner is is usually gold so good stuff All right.

So having said all this I haven't read the confession yet because the confession gives the Early Baptist remember this is the first London confession So this is an early expression of what we believe about baptism now later in the 1689 confession I will say this this is one of the places where I think the 1689 is a little clearer but This is the confession we've adopted If you want to look up the 1689 though There the 1689 a lot of times when I do baptisms actually read from the 1689 because it is a little clearer But this is still very very good.

So let us read what they have to say on this.

We're going to read 39 First on the subjects of baptism.

It says baptism is an ordinance of the New Testament By the way, the word ordinance means a law or a command and it is the word sacramentum in Latin Originally meant a law or command it would later become known as mystery and The idea of the body and blood changing that's where the idea of mystery came from in sacrament And so that's why you'll hear me say sacrament a lot But I tend to fall back on the word ordinance because that's what the that's what communion and baptism are They're commands of Christ do this in remembrance of me go into the world and baptize their commands So that's why I prefer the term ordinance, but sacrament can mean the same thing Baptism is ordinance of the New Testament given by Christ to be dispensed Upon persons professing faith or that are made disciples who upon profession of faith ought to be baptized and afterward to take of the Lord's Supper Simple enough.

It really is very easy that this is for those who profess faith Now, let me ask you a question.

This is this is we don't have time to really discuss it But just think about this question.

Do you think that everyone who professes faith is a believer? Absolutely, no In fact If you need proof Matthew chapter 7 many will come to me on that day and say Lord Lord did we not do this did we not do that? And I will say to you I never knew you right not everybody who professes faith is a believer I've had I've had infant Baptist Presbyterian friends of mine who would say well you bad because I'll say you're baptizing unbelievers You're baptizing children.

They're not believers well, you baptize unbelievers too because you don't know for sure if that person is a believer and I say I concede that I Don't know for sure because I can't open a man's chest and look at his heart and know whether or not it's converted I can't lift up his shirt tail and he's not gonna have a letter C tattooed to his backside to let me know that he Is a cow I should be e for elect.

I was gonna say Calvinist He's not gonna have a letter e tattooed for elect if he's a Calvinist.

He's elect.

Yeah So Yeah But I said the difference between you and I and I like I've had this I've had this conversation I said the difference between you and I is that I would never knowingly baptize someone Who is an unbeliever? I would never have somebody come to me and say I don't believe in Christ and say that's okay Let me baptize you the conviction of the Baptist The conviction of the men who wrote this confession was that we only Baptize those who make a profession of faith in Christ.

Now, how do we know that faith is credible? There are certain things that we do look for like me when I have little young people I do have young people that come to me want to be baptized I spend sometimes six months with them in counseling and Bible study Preparing them for baptism if you go back and look at the didache The didache is one of the oldest extra-biblical writings that we have and the didache said that when a person wanted to be baptized the whole church would fast on their behalf that they would all fast for that person and pray for that person and Then they would baptize them.

So there was a process that they went through before actually Baptizing them.

So yes, there is there is something that we do to try to see is this a credible profession We don't just stand up at the end of the service with a towel and a bucket of water and say come on Not a bucket of water But if we don't stand up there with a baptismal full and say come on and everybody who wants to get baptized We want to know that they've made a profession and we want to try to again We'll never know their heart for sure and I've seen people that I really thought were genuine who have demonstrated that they weren't That's a broken hearted thing.

We talked about that the other day didn't we missed everyone in our class? We did on marriage you talked about that.

That's it's sad to know that that does happen, but it's not on purpose We would never baptize somebody we knew was an unbeliever.

Go ahead Andy.

I don't know you guys Yeah Yeah Absolutely, there's a balance that we have to be careful.

It's a credible profession of faith and that's that's our obligation After that, I mean we had a watch and monitor, but it really is believe in me doctor.

Absolutely Yeah, yeah, and then that's a good point, too We're not we're not counting righteous deeds or you know, you got to wash all the elders cars or truck But yeah So Now there is an appendix addition to this Basically what it says is that a person Their baptism does not cause them to be saved.

That's what if you go back and read the appendix It's making the point that even though we only baptize professed believers their baptism doesn't make them saved and that's an important Truth but but it does go on to say this the appendix says this but they should be Even though your baptism doesn't cause you to be saved I don't I don't know anybody that's ever told me I'm a Christian, but I'm not baptized that they had a good reason There's no reason to be a Christian and not be baptized if you truly believe in the Lord Jesus Christ The first command is to be baptized So if a person said I'm a believer, but uh, you know, I just don't want to get wet That's not a good reason.

Yeah, I just got my hair did You know, we were supposed to be baptized I'm after I've heard crazy stuff it's you know All right.

So let's look at number 40 the mode of baptism That the way a manner of dispensing this ordinance is dipping or plunging the body underwater It being a sign must answer the thing signified love that I underline that in mind It being a sign must answer the thing being signified.

What is that saying? It's saying that the sign is a picture of something and What it should look like what it signifies it should it should give the idea of what's being signified That is why when I baptize someone I take them and I lay them down like they're dying because what is Roman 6 tell us Buried with him in baptism raised to new life.

There's a picture of death burial and resurrection in this This is why we don't just go and fling a little water on his forehead.

No, no, no, no No, he wasn't called John the sprinkler.

He was John the Baptist.

We put him under the floor It's very important.

You put him down and I always tell the young ones I say listen, you know The girls I did a few weeks ago.

I said listen, I'm gonna hold you under for a second and there I Said just I'm gonna count a Mississippi and the reason why is because I've seen guys go down and come up so fast I got a dry spot right there.

Then you got to get a Presbyterian to come finish it up No, I'm sorry No you I hold them down and make sure the water, huh? You got to let the water go all the way over them and cover them So I hold them down make sure the water covers them then I bring them back up and I do think the mode in that Sense matters.

Here's the thing in the Westminster Confession of Faith This is what it says listen to this the Westminster Confession of Faith says this and Westminster Confession of Faith is what's used by Presbyterians and Anglicans and many other Reformed churches it says this Dipping of the person into water is not necessary But baptism is rightly administered by pouring or sprinkling water upon the person So this is an area of real distinction because not only do Baptists determine the subject for baptism, but we also have a particular mode and The mode is by plunging them underwater.

We believe Baptist.

So means to go under the water In fact, if you look at your confession look down at the scripture verses that it cites It says mark 3 16 mark 15 9 that's wrong.

That's a misprint It's mark 1 5 & 9 and it says he was baptized into the Jordan River the Greek Preposition en or epsilon new is into he was in the water not he didn't have the water thrown on him he got in it and It goes on to say the word baptizo signifies to dip or plunge Notice this too yet.

So as convenient garments be based upon the administrator and subject with all modesty.

Why does it mention that? because one of the Accusers who was accusing the Baptists of not being faithful He was writing against what they were doing and he said this he said when the Baptists come together they come together and They strip naked How dare these so-called? Baptist Christians get together and strip down to nothing.

In fact this way said he said He accused them of being quote start naked Not only when they flock in great multitudes men and women together in their Jordans to be dipped That's how he wrote it down to their skivvies So the writers of the confession added in the bottom.

They said no we dressed modestly when we're baptized We make sure that we don't go out there nobody goes out there naked nobody goes out there in their underwear But they're modestly dressed That's just this again.

Why would they even write that it's because they're being accused of being Somehow deviant in their behavior.

All right last one I know I'm running fast got a lot for the introduction the administrator of baptism The person designed by Christ to dispense baptism the scripture holds forth to be a disciple it being nowhere tied to a particular officer or Person extraordinarily sent the Commission and joining the administration being given to them as considered Disciples being men able to preach the gospel now hear what it's saying Any disciple of Christ who is otherwise qualified to preach? Has the same ability to baptize Any disciple of Christ who's otherwise qualified to preach has the ability to baptize compare that to the Westminster? This is the Westminster Confession There are only two sacraments ordained by Christ our Lord Baptism in the Lord's Supper neither of which may be dispensed by anyone, but by a minister of the word lawfully ordained so that is another distinction between historic Baptists and The Presbyterian or Anglican the Westminster Confession Westminster Confession says no the only people who can administer baptism in the Lord's Supper Are lawfully ordained ministers? I give you an example of how this works out practically friend of mine is a Presbyterian minister he was going through the process of his ordination and He was and he planted a church out in Hilliard, and he had started preaching in church great guy.

I love him He's preached here wonderful brother And he started their church And it was several months before he was ordained he had to go through all of their they have they have a getting ordained the Presbyterian Church is a lot that he have to go through had to finish his seminary school that he had to go through His actual ordination service.

There's a lot he had to do He could not administer the Lord's Table Anytime they wanted to do the Lord's Supper Pastor Steve who was a friend of mine too who was at a different Presbyterian Church? He had to drive out there to administer the table So he could not administer the table.

He couldn't administer baptism because he was not yet an ordained minister Compare that to us just a few months ago Trinity was baptized who baptized her her dad Because he is a disciple otherwise qualified in every way to preach if given the opportunity and So we allowed him to baptize his daughter We do not see the administration of the sacraments to be held to a particular office yes The idea is and again.

I don't I didn't know these men's I'm giving you what I think that they are getting her to the idea is that if we said let's say you and Holly want to want to go and Preach the gospel in another city, and we encourage you go you should you should be able to baptize so the idea is this is tied to people who are going and Effectively working as evangelists and missionaries So the idea of somebody being able to preach it's it's tied to that that person who's going But I would say this Any man and the way I read it and understand it any man who has the qualities or? Qualifications to be able to preach just like you if you if we needed you to preach you could do it You know Mike could preach well the point is If there was a man who was not Qualified to stand in the pulpit that he's probably not qualified to stand in the baptistry If for whatever reason maybe he's in some kind of a sin or backslidden condition or whatever there I think that's the idea is that that he's You know you you still have to have some form of standard the standard would be he's qualified to stand up and minister the word And the ministration of the sacrament is always accompanied by the ministry of the word So let's say you and Holly did go start a church in wherever You wouldn't go around baptizing without also preaching along with it.

There would be the proclamation of the word along with that yes Yeah Yeah, I Thought about that same question It's interesting that you asked that because I don't know the answer Personally I would have to give that more thought and I actually thought about that as I was preparing my lesson because I had the Same thought well what if it's a woman who's sharing the gospel with somebody and they want to be saved I I don't I've never thought about it And I don't have a good enough answer to give you definitive My initial gut feeling would be no only because of the position of authority that that person would be in but at the same time I Can't tell you right away because I don't have I don't have I don't have a right answer right away Without giving it more thought Andy.

Do you have a thought on that? That's right because a woman can't wouldn't be able to do that Yeah, but again, I don't know the answer so but it's a good question.

I said the question I had and Unfortunately didn't have a good enough answer But again being able to finalize everything all of these three Articles are just telling us the who Of who will who can be baptized believers only the how they're going to be baptized by immersion and who is going to administer it a person who's capable of preaching the word a disciple of Christ is a person who is capable of doing that and they don't have to have any special ordination or Administration from the church to be able to do that.

Yes I Because the 1689 has some areas that we cannot affirm as a church and Overall I do believe the 1646 has a lot of things in it that are superior That's my opinion and I think our other elders would agree but there are Just because there are some parts of the 1689 that I would say are clearer doesn't mean the overall is better Please The 1689 is really a Presbyterian Presbyterian confession So they're thinking on the covenant they're thinking on the law there there are some things that That are big In the 1689 Absolutely, and and again Just to add it one last thought to that when we sat down to make a decision You know and we said here here's really what we we want to do.

We want to tie.