WWUTT 750 Q&A Plurality Eldership, the World Mission Society Church of God, and 21 and Single Advice?

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August 10, 2018

Responding to questions about providing biblical arguments for plurality eldership, evangelizing to the those caught up in the World Mission Society Church of God, and advice for a single male who's 21. Visit wwutt.com for all our videos!

00:00: What's a concise list of Biblical arguments for plurality eldership? How do we witness to somebody who is caught up in the
00:07: World Mission Society Church of God? And what's some Biblical advice for a 21 year old single man?
00:12: The answers to these questions when we understand the text! This is
00:25: When We Understand the Text, a daily Bible study of the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that produces godliness.
00:32: Find all our videos through our website at www .utt .com. Here once again is
00:39: Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. Happy anniversary. What? What?
00:47: A different kind of anniversary this week. So last week it was our wedding anniversary.
00:53: Correct. Yes. This week it is the anniversary of this podcast. I wondered.
00:58: This started three years ago in August. I was sharing that with Andy Olson earlier this week who is the host of the
01:07: Echo Zoe podcast and I'll be a guest on a future episode of Echo Zoe.
01:13: Yay! And I mentioned... Hopefully it's feeling better. Yeah, yeah. We have postponed getting this recorded because he got ill.
01:22: But he was asking me about what was going on with When We Understand the Text and what we could talk about and I said, well,
01:27: I guess the most monumental accomplishment as of recent is that we've now been doing the podcast for three years.
01:33: Yeah. And he said that is quite an accomplishment because most podcasters piddle out after a few months.
01:39: Oh, really? So yeah. So I guess we're above the norm. Yay! We're kind of ahead of the curve here. Or maybe we're around the curve and have made a few more curves.
01:47: Yeah. And now we're, yeah, 750 episodes. I think today is 750.
01:53: Maybe or 745. I don't know. By the time it's posted, you've seen the number on the podcast and you know.
02:01: You don't have to email in because we'll have seen it too. Oh, I was supposed to get the GoFundMe thing set up for...
02:07: Yeah, yesterday. I didn't do that. The day before yesterday. Didn't get that done. I got enough things going on and so do you.
02:14: We're both just very busy. I'm sorry, I seem to recall Tuesday being rather slow. When did
02:20: I say that? I remember hearing it. You texted it to me. I said that Tuesday was slow? Not slow, slow, but like rather slow.
02:30: Okay, so as opposed... Slower than norm. As opposed to crazy, it was just kind of hectic. Yeah, you know.
02:37: You could have slid a couple more things in there. I could have, but there was plenty of room to do... There was.
02:42: A couple more things. So much room. Anyway, so as I've mentioned, we want to head to G3 in January.
02:49: And we've been given booth space for the conference, but would like to ask our listeners to help us with being able to get to G3.
02:57: So we need to set up a GoFundMe... We'll not get there, but have a booth there. Well, yeah, because having the booth is more expensive than actual admission to the conference.
03:07: Yes, which is fair. Yes, but we would like to encourage you to go to G3.
03:13: Yes. So go to G3conference .com, that's the letter G, the number three, conference .com
03:19: in order to get registered. And the theme for this upcoming conference in January in Atlanta is going to be missions.
03:27: That's right. Missions or missionaries? Missions. Missions. Yeah. Okay. But those who go on missions...
03:34: Are missionaries. Would be missionaries, yeah. Okay, okay, have fun. Great lineup of speakers and you can find the whole list there at G3conference .com.
03:43: So I was going to have something set up for today that you could give to, to help us get to Atlanta.
03:50: No, yeah, it's too late. It's too late? You're thinking that after we get done recording this, I'm then going to go set up a
03:55: GoFundMe. Yes, how long does it take to set up one? No, I've got to finish the little questionnaire thing. Do you want me to set up one?
04:02: That I promised this individual that I would send. Yeah. And then I still need to grout your tile floor before I go to bed.
04:08: Oh, you're going to do that before hauling bricks tomorrow. Oh, that's not going to take very long. It's not, it's not going to take me nearly as long as it took to tile the floor.
04:18: All right. We'll be fine. We'll get that taken care of. We've got a lot going on.
04:23: Yes, and you need to go to bed. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to ask you to set up a GoFundMe.
04:29: I can do it in the morning. We'll see. Possibly. I don't know though.
04:35: I might take that back. Well, I'm not positive that I'm going to do GoFundMe. That's just the... That's true. The term that we use.
04:41: Yeah. Because that's what most people do. But I could use the program that we've already got set up for people to donate to.
04:48: Yeah. Then I don't know how to do that. Yeah. Which is SimpleGive. I have to remember the password and everything to get into it.
04:54: I might nag him a little bit on Saturday and see if he can set it up that day. I had already passed on all of the
05:01: SimpleGive information to somebody else to take care of that and monitor it. So I don't even go check it anymore. But anyway, so we'll see about getting all that set up.
05:10: In the meantime, we encourage you to consider G3 and make plans to attend the conference in January.
05:16: Yes. And every little bit counts. That's right. What do you mean? For the
05:22: GoFundMe when we finally set that up. I'm agreeing with something. I don't exactly know what you mean. It's just yes, dear.
05:28: Yes. Sure. Sounds great. So on Friday, we take...
05:33: Great color. I like the yellow, by the way. Oh, thanks. She's wearing yellow. I am wearing yellow. It catches the corner of my eye a lot more too.
05:39: As I'm looking at the computer monitor, I can see my wife out the corner of my eye. It's chilly.
05:45: I grabbed a sweater. Check. But it matches your pants. It does. Which are not as yellow.
05:51: No, but they have lemons on it. Lemon print. It's not floral print. No, I got them because they're lemons.
05:56: It's a lemon print. I'm drinking an Arnold Palmer right here. Sweet tea and lemonade.
06:02: So yeah, we're all about the lemons on this episode of the program. Being Friday, we take questions from the listeners and you could submit your questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.
06:14: First question. This comes from Dan in Falcon, Colorado. Falcon. Falcon, Colorado.
06:21: Hello. Falcon Punch. Yes. Do you know what that is? That is one of your video games we grew up with.
06:27: Hey, look at that. You remember that. Yes. That's awesome. Street... Not Street Fighter. No, no, no. What is that called?
06:33: Smash Brothers. Smash Brothers. Yep. It was one of those. So he says, Pastor Gabe, thank you for teaching once again on the need for plurality eldership in the church.
06:42: We are currently considering this for our church, a Baptist church that does not have a plurality eldership anywhere in its history.
06:49: Yeah, that was the case with us. Yeah. When we established our first plurality eldership. Would you be able to run down again a concise list of arguments for plurality eldership from the
07:01: Bible? And if you haven't yet, would you be able to give an argument for plurality eldership drawing from church history?
07:09: Let me answer the second question first. All right. No. Okay. I don't think actually it's a good idea to go through church history as an argument for plurality eldership.
07:22: Okay. Because the majority of church history actually does not have plurality eldership.
07:27: Generally, when a church begins to leave sound apostolic instruction, it falls into a single elder church model.
07:36: And that's what you see through the majority of church history. I mean, church history is constant flux.
07:42: Church doing the right thing. Church doing the wrong thing. Yes, all the time. Yeah. And even in the second century.
07:48: So immediately after the apostolic era that you have in the first century, you get into the second and third century.
07:55: And when you read from the patristic fathers in those two centuries, sometimes they don't even have a grasp or an understanding of grace, let alone a proper understanding of church polity.
08:06: So it's very common for the church to fall into that single eldership model.
08:13: And when that model gets the most abused, then you've got like Roman Catholicism.
08:19: Yeah. Where it's kind of a what would you call that? A monarchical episcopate. So that's the kind of the primary example of abusing that one elder model.
08:29: And you see a lot of Protestant church do this, too. I remember World Magazine doing an article and their focus was primarily on things that were going on in Elevation Church under Stephen Furtick.
08:42: Okay. But they made a correlation between the whole pastor vision model that the whole church is expected to follow and compared that with the
08:52: Pope over the Catholic Church. And it really is adopting popish tendencies in the
08:57: Protestant church whenever we adopt that kind of model. Anyway, it's very common throughout church history.
09:02: So I don't think church history. I mean, I can tell you matter of factly that church history is not our authority on this matter.
09:09: Right. Our authority is scripture. So it's good to study those things in church history. But I would be cautious to make a biblical case.
09:17: All right. I take that back because you're not making a biblical case from church history. I do not make a historical case.
09:24: There you go. Don't make a historical case for church eldership. That's not going to be nearly as strong as the biblical evidence that you would provide.
09:33: So a concise list of arguments related to plurality eldership that comes from the
09:40: Bible. I really think that the best argument and instruction is what we've already studied in Titus chapter one, verse five, because what
09:50: Paul says to Titus is, this is why I left you in Crete so that you might put what remained into order and appoint elders in every town as I directed you.
10:01: So as we understand this as an instruction from the Holy Spirit that applies even to the church today, we as individual autonomous churches should be appointing elders plural in every church singular.
10:17: Oftentimes we look at this like Titus one, five, and we think of every town having multiple churches like our context today where there's 10 churches every square mile or something like that.
10:27: Or across the street. Yeah. At least in the United States of America. Yeah. In the case of our community here, we've got some places where there's churches right next door to one another or right across the street.
10:37: Yeah. If you live in the Bible belt, you probably have seen the same thing. Yeah. If you don't live in the
10:44: Bible belt, you see a Starbucks across the street from a Starbucks. Yes. But same concept. Yeah.
10:49: Same sort of thing. And then unfortunately, the church is becoming franchised too. But anyway, so Paul gives this instruction to Titus that in every town, there's only going to be one church.
11:02: There's not multiple churches like we have today. And in every town singular appoint elders plural as I directed you.
11:09: So there's our directive and we have it right from scripture. But then after that, and or beyond that,
11:16: I should say, every occasion where you have eldership mentioned, it's always in the plural.
11:21: Right. And the only exception to that is whenever you have the qualifications for an overseer.
11:27: Right. Given in 1 Timothy 3 1 -7 or in Titus 1 5 -9.
11:33: Because it's talking about that one elder. That one guy. Yeah. Making sure he is acceptable to be on the board.
11:42: Board. Yeah. Among the eldership. Yeah. There you go. Sorry. It works. Too many lingos.
11:48: They're all mushing together. Yeah. I would say to avoid that whole CEO mentality.
11:54: Sorry. Stay away from elder board. I was just talking about a school board earlier today.
12:00: So never mind. So he is being tested to be considered for that office of elder.
12:07: There you go. Office. Right. Good word. Because it is the office. So we have two offices in the church. You have the office of elder and you have the office of deacon.
12:16: And so as that man is being considered for that office, that's the only time we have it considered as singular.
12:23: But every other time eldership comes up, it's in the plural. As Paul had instructed in Crete, he and Silas appointed elders in every church.
12:32: And that's in Acts chapter 14 verse 23. When they came to the church in Jerusalem, they were greeted by the elders.
12:40: Plural. Acts 15 for when Paul stopped in Miletus, he called for the elders plural of the church in Ephesus to come and meet him there.
12:48: Acts 2017. And when Paul came back to Jerusalem before his first imprisonment in Rome, all of the elders of the church were present with James.
12:57: And speaking of James, consider the instruction that he gave in James 5 14. If anyone is sick, they should call the elders of the church to come and pray for them.
13:07: Right. And that's something we've actually practiced in our own church. When we've had members of our congregation have been sick, they've said, hey, the instruction in James 5 is to have the elders of the church come and pray.
13:19: Can we have all the elders over to come and pray? And we've done that. Done that a few times. Have you anointed their heads with oil?
13:25: Yep, we've done that too. So that's the instruction there in James 5. And there you have a context of a plurality of elders at the very start of the book of Philippians.
13:36: The Philippian church had a plurality of overseers to the deacons and overseers at Philippi.
13:44: And again, you can't enter into this with the mentality of, well, that was all the churches in Philippi. No, it's only one.
13:50: There was only one church there. Regarding the elders who oversaw the church in Thessalonica, Paul said, we ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the
14:03: Lord and admonish you and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work.
14:10: And what we'll see later on as we go through Titus, when we get to chapter 3, be submissive to rulers and authorities.
14:16: And this is in the context of those who are overseeing the church. Be obedient and ready for good, every good work.
14:25: Speak evil of no one, avoid quarreling, be gentle and show perfect courtesy to all people. So Paul begins his letter to Titus talking about eldership.
14:34: And then after giving instructions for the conduct of every person in the church in chapter 2, then you get to the start of chapter 3.
14:42: And his instruction is for everyone in the church to be submissive to those who have been appointed as overseers in the church.
14:50: Now, you will have those elders who are considered worthy of double honor. That's 1 Timothy 5, 17.
14:56: Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.
15:04: For the scripture says, you shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain, and the laborer deserves his wages.
15:11: So this is an elder who has committed his entire life, his livelihood to preaching and teaching.
15:18: Therefore, he's worthy of double honor, meaning that he has the honor that is given to him by the
15:24: Lord because of his service to God. But he also receives honor from the church in that the church provides for all of his needs and cares for him and his family, since he's committing his entire life to preaching and teaching.
15:38: So he among the eldership would be the one that is considered worthy of double honor. But as far as his importance goes among the elders, he's not any greater or less than they are.
15:49: He's an equal. Yes, the elders tend to the spiritual needs of the church.
15:55: Deacons tend to the physical needs of the church. So as the elders consider the preaching and the teaching in the church, they're all together on this and should be of like mind.
16:06: And that's a great thing for a church to see that the teaching that's going on there in that church is not just the decision of one guy, but the church knows that the teaching that we are receiving here, this comes from the consensus of the elders.
16:19: So there's checks and balances. There's accountability. There is eldership approval and authority.
16:26: And so it is a great benefit to a church. I mean, how could a church say it's a bad thing to appoint more men to the faithfulness of teaching and tending the flock of God?
16:37: I know, right? It's just not a thing anymore. Well, people are such on a surface level with God.
16:44: It's like that little meme that I had found with the dinosaur from Toys.
16:52: Toy Story. Toy Story. Yes. Okay. And then it's like, this is the
16:58: Bible of America. And then it has the Jurassic. The Jurassic Park T -Rex. T -Rex.
17:03: And this is the God of the Bible kind of thing. So it's like, you know, people just are happy in that surface level and they don't want to grow anymore.
17:13: They want to play with toys. Yeah. Not sink their teeth into the meat of Scripture. Right. Well, yeah, you can take that a different route.
17:20: But yeah, that works too. They just love that.
17:26: Just tell me what I need to hear to get me through my week and not.
17:32: I need to be convicted. Yes. I need to work on that and dive into Scripture. I need to take initiative myself and study the word and pray.
17:40: This is why Dr. Albert Moeller has said that a tendency for people to leave
17:45: Protestantism and fall into Eastern Orthodoxy or Roman Catholicism is because they want the smells and bells.
17:51: Right. They want the feeling or they want to alleviate from themselves the responsibility to be spiritually disciplined.
18:00: Right. The person's own responsibility to read the Bible and pray and even help others understand what it is that the
18:09: Bible is saying. And instead, you relegate it to those people who are over the church. Well, the priest takes care of that.
18:16: Right. And he's the one that tells me that my sins are forgiven. So that way,
18:21: I don't have to do anything, you know, coming before God and confessing my sin or finding out what's right and wrong.
18:27: And if I'm really walking in holiness, I just let the priest take care of that for me. So that's why people fall into that.
18:33: And again, that's an abuse of that one elder system. And that's we as the people of God.
18:40: It's not healthy. It's not. We as the people of God would do well as Protestants. We would do well to stay away from that model and instead understand that the model of preaching and teaching that we have in scripture is under a plurality eldership in the church, not a single pastor.
18:55: And what is the role of the elder? What is it that God has given elders to do in the church?
19:02: Ephesians four, verse eleven, Christ gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers to equip the saints for the work of ministry for building up the body of Christ until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ so that we may no longer be children tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.
19:37: Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head and to Christ from whom the whole body joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped.
19:49: When each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
19:56: So this is not the responsibility of a of a priest or a pope to declare you forgiven of your sins or to do all of this
20:05: Bible study and theology answering for you. It is the role of a pastor whom
20:11: God has given to equip the saints for the work of ministry. Everybody has that responsibility to be equipped for ministry.
20:20: And the church is also involved in this process of appointing elders in the sense that the elder candidates will be presented to the church, and then the church is the one that tests whether or not they are fit for that role and then votes to approve them into those positions.
20:40: So all of this ministry work is a job for the whole church. It's not something that you just give to a single pastor or a priest or somebody like that to do.
20:49: Now, you certainly have cases as you look through the New Testament where it seems like one individual kind of stands out as sort of the main elder or the main teacher, like James in Jerusalem or Timothy in Ephesus.
21:02: Right. But nowhere do we see that they somehow override every other elder.
21:08: Right. They need to be submissive to their elders just like the rest of the elders do. And as Peter said in 1
21:14: Timothy 5, 1 through 5, or sorry, Peter's not talking in 1 Timothy, he's talking in 1 Peter, 1
21:20: Peter 5, 1 through 5, he says, be subject to the elders and even elders need to be subject to the elders.
21:26: They're as much a part of the congregation as the laity. So they need to follow that instruction as well.
21:31: And it's good for accountability on top of the credibility that's given to the scriptures as they are being taught.
21:38: So anyway, there's my response. I guess I already answered the next half, an argument from church history.
21:44: Don't rely on church. You can study church history. It's great. You learn about the great things that were done in the history of the church and the really bad things that were done in the history of the church that we shouldn't repeat.
21:56: Right. But as far as making a case for eldership, that's really something that needs to be done biblically more so than historically.
22:04: We learn how not to handle eldership from church history. Okay, this next one.
22:10: Hello, Pastor Gabe and Becky from Auckland, New Zealand. Hello. Am I saying that right?
22:16: Auckland. I'm not sure. You don't have the accent, though. Auckland, New Zealand. No, that was terrible.
22:22: No, that sounded like it was New Jersey. I was trying to do my
22:27: Geico gecko. Oh, I gotcha. I gotcha. Anyway, forgive me,
22:33: Canaan. I'm so sorry. That's his fellow's name. So this is from Canaan. Hi. But not the land, the person. Right.
22:39: Twice in the last week alone, I have been approached by evangelists from the World Mission Society Church of God, WMSCOG, who, if you're not familiar with them, and indeed
22:50: I am. I actually wrote a blog that mentioned them. They are a cult who believes a version of modalism.
22:57: They believe that there is such a deity as God, the mother, and that she is alive today in South Korea, LOL, and that we attain salvation through baptism and observing the
23:08: Sabbath Passover. Moreover, they believe that they are the only ones interpreting scripture correctly.
23:14: It's a good sign of a cult. What advice can you give to someone like me who might need to counter -present the gospel?
23:22: I know how to present the gospel, but how do I go about presenting the gospel to someone who is presenting a false gospel to me?
23:30: Great question. Thank you in advance for your thoughts. So first of all, in my experience anyway,
23:37: I mean, there may be some other folks out there who have a different experience. I find cultists the most difficult to evangelize to because there is a significant amount of brainwashing that goes on in a cult, and I don't ever feel like after a conversation that I've gotten anywhere, and that not just with,
23:56: I don't think I've ever personally met somebody from the World Mission Society Church of God, but I'm talking more specifically about Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, or the more extreme side of Seventh Day Adventism would kind of fall in that cult category as well.
24:11: So encountering those individuals and trying to evangelize to them is extremely difficult because they are fully and thoroughly brainwashed.
24:19: What I have found to be more successful or fruitful avenue when it comes to those who are trying to proselytize their cult, look for those that they have spoken with and instead go to them and say, hey, did you consider what it was that so -and -so said to you?
24:39: Do you know what it is that the Bible says about that? And that way, you're not just potentially successfully evangelizing someone to come to the
24:48: Lord, but you are also keeping a person from falling into a cult like that and being brainwashed.
24:54: So it may be better for you to be equipped on knowing how to talk to people who have heard from the
25:00: World Mission Society Church of God. Now, the likelihood is that they're going to have very little impact on your area.
25:07: They will win some converts. There will be some people that will turn to the WMSCOG, but for the most part, people are going to find them as wacky as you do.
25:18: And so they're probably not going to win a whole lot of converts. But it's still, it's opened the door to this kind of discussion.
25:25: And so the word of God is not going to be maligned and a reproach brought against the gospel.
25:30: Go to those who have spoken with people from this cult and tell them what it is the
25:36: Bible actually says about this. So when it comes to someone who claims in the reincarnation of Christ or the return of Jesus Christ and that there is a
25:47: God, the mother, you know, these kinds of things, this cult is not alone in this. I mean, the
25:52: Mormons believe this. The Mormons believe that there is a mother God. And the
25:57: Seventh -day Adventists, some of the Seventh -day Adventists have, to a certain degree, believe that Christ has returned.
26:03: Same with the Jehovah's Witnesses. So let me give you a brief kind of rundown of this cult.
26:09: Since I mentioned Seventh -day Adventism, Aung Sang Hong. Extreme Seventh -day
26:15: Adventism, yes. Aung Sang Hong, who is the founder of this cult, in a manner of speaking, he founded a different church and then it splintered off and it became this particular cult.
26:27: But they still think of Aung Sang Hong as the return of Jesus Christ. The founder of their church is
26:33: Christ himself, according to them. So he was a former Seventh -day Adventist and was excommunicated in 1962, and 23 people followed him out of the church.
26:44: Two years later, he founded the Witnesses of Jesus Church of God. And after his death in 1985, the church split and formed the
26:52: New Covenant Passover Church of God, with both churches claiming Aung as their founder. Aung was among some of the end times kooks who thought that the beginning of the modern state of Israel was a sign of the end of the world, which he predicted would happen in 1988.
27:06: He died before he saw his prophecy flop. He thought the end of the world would be 88. Of course, that came and went.
27:13: Yes. And the Witnesses of Jesus Church of God maintain that Aung is the second coming of Christ, even though he's dead.
27:21: Arguments persist between the Witnesses' New Covenants as to what Aung actually claimed and taught.
27:27: His churches have been planted in over 150 countries with 2 million registered members.
27:34: And between the two churches, the World Mission Society Church of God is the larger one. I think it's like 1 .2
27:40: million within that particular church. So knowing that, that Aung had at one point predicted the end of the world in 1988 and it didn't come to pass.
27:51: That's a good piece of information to use when it comes to talking to these cultists. Are you aware that the founder of your church actually predicted the end of the world in 1988 and it didn't happen?
28:02: Yeah. So don't you think that kind of shows his fallibility and he cannot possibly be Jesus Christ? Yeah.
28:07: Isn't that in the Bible where you prophesy and it doesn't come to be? Yeah, Deuteronomy 18.
28:13: So if someone claims a prophecy in my name and it doesn't come to pass, well, according to Deuteronomy 18, he's supposed to be put to death.
28:20: Yes. But that just goes to show, of course, we're not enacting that kind of theocracy today, but that just goes to show how serious it was that a person would claim to have received a word from the
28:30: Lord that did not actually come from the Lord. Right. In Israel, it would result in death. Right.
28:35: If somebody claims something that doesn't come to pass, he has spoken presumptuously, it did not come from God.
28:41: That's at the end of Deuteronomy 18. So look that passage up. But related to the return of Christ, especially when it comes to talking to these cultists,
28:48: Cain, and here's what I recommend that you become real familiar with Matthew 24 in Matthew 24, starting in verse 23, we read.
28:56: If anyone says to you, look, here is the Christ or there he is. Do not believe it for false
29:03: Christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
29:11: See, I have told you beforehand. So if they say to you, look, he is in the wilderness, do not go out.
29:17: If they say, look, he is in the inner rooms, do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the son of man.
29:26: Wherever the corpse is there, the vultures will gather. And that's just a way of saying you will know the signs.
29:32: So Jesus next coming will be seen by the whole world. Yes. And it will be in judgment.
29:39: Right. It's not going to be to come and establish a splinter cell group of churches over here on the
29:45: Korean Peninsula. So that's a passage that you want to be equipped with, have memorized, understand when it comes to confront confronting these cultists or even going to those that they have spoken with and helping them understand, no, this group is a cult and what they are saying or what they're teaching is contrary to the word of God.
30:03: Because more often than not, what you're going to encounter are people that go, you know, I know that they're messed up, but I don't know why.
30:09: I don't know how they're messed up. And then you're able to take them to the scriptures and help them understand the Christ that they're proclaiming is not the
30:16: Christ of the Bible. Right. And if they are proclaiming a different Jesus, then it is a different gospel.
30:22: And according to Galatians 1, 8 and 9, they are accursed. That's another couple of verses that you want to have memorized.
30:30: If we or anyone else comes preaching a different gospel, they are accursed.
30:36: So I hope that gives you a little bit of equipment there that you can use. Canaan had already mentioned in his email,
30:42: I know how to present the gospel. Right. So there's some counter arguments. Right. You go, man.
30:47: Go for it. Godspeed. Keep us posted on that too. Yeah, please. We'll pray for you. And I would like to hear more about what you're encountering there.
30:56: I'm guessing that that's definitely more common in New Zealand since they're closer to the
31:02: Korean peninsula. Could be. But I've not encountered anyone from the WMSCOG over here.
31:07: I will say that in the United States, I think what's a little bit more prevalent than the World Mission Society Church of God is the cult that's known as Eastern Lightning.
31:16: Because I've not personally encountered anyone from Eastern Lightning, but I know people who have.
31:21: Yeah. So it's kind of like through, what would you say, secondary or third? Yeah, grapevine.
31:28: Once removed. I'm thinking of cousins now. Cousins once removed. I was thinking through the grapevine.
31:34: Through the grapevine. But closer than grapevine. Yeah, anyway. A friend of a friend. Third hand.
31:39: There we go. Second hand. Second hand. I don't know what the right term is. Sure.
31:45: You get the idea. I can point you to a biblical explanation. Don't expect me to know idioms and common sayings.
31:53: Okay, last question here. This comes from Jeremy in Michigan. All of a sudden,
31:58: I got froggy. Pastor Gabe, you've been talking this week on the podcast about men's and women's roles and marriage.
32:06: I love listening to the theologically sound guys like you, Todd Freel, Paul Washer, and Vodie Bauckham talk about marriage.
32:12: But it seems that when people talk about young men who aren't married, they usually speak of those who aren't as mature and don't want to be married.
32:22: I am 21, putting me in the second group you talked about Wednesday, and I want to be married, but right now that isn't what
32:28: God has for me. I hope that it's God's will that I will eventually be married, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
32:36: As a Calvinist, I profess that God's will is what will be done, as Psalm 115 .3 says.
32:41: But when I desire to be married and raise godly children, like how Bauckham talks about a multi -generational view of Christianity, it can be hard.
32:53: I have grown much in the past few years about trusting God through these times. But what advice do you have for young men like myself and also young women who desire to be married and have children, but God seems to be telling us not yet or maybe never?
33:09: Well, once again, I want to reiterate the advice that I have for young men that I put in that episode of the podcast on Wednesday.
33:19: Because even though I said this is the advice that I primarily give to middle schoolers and to high schoolers, that's just when
33:26: I most often give that advice is to those group of teens. But that still applies to you as well as a 21 -year -old.
33:33: You're just going to fit it into your context of being in your young 20s rather than in the context of being a teenager.
33:38: You do have marriage on the horizon. You want to become married. And so you need to follow that same advice that your identity is in Christ.
33:47: It's not in a girlfriend. It's not in the hope or the desire or the ambition to be married.
33:52: It's not in the stuff that you own. It's not in the dreams that you want to accomplish. It's not in the clothes that you wear or the style that you've adopted in yourself.
34:01: Please, please, please. It's not in the music that you listen to. I was very identified by my music when
34:09: I was in high school, especially considering that I worked at a Christian radio station. And I look back on the stuff that I listen to now.
34:16: I was like, boy, that was terrible. I can't believe my theology was shaped by that, more so by the music
34:21: I listened to than the Bible that I was reading. So because I'm not in that mindset anymore, I tend to think that music is not as shaping as it used to be, but it still is very much so up on teenagers today and young adults.
34:33: So anyway, that's just kind of a side note. But these are the things that I did.
34:39: This is what identifies you, your identity in Christ, who you are in Christ Jesus, who he is shaping you into as you grow in sanctification and in holiness, not in any of these things in the world.
34:51: And that goes for all ages. Yeah, exactly. All ages. Not anything that is in the world and not who the world says you are or not anybody else and the way that you see them living and you think, well, maybe
35:03: I can adopt that style for myself and pieces of this over here. And now I have my own thing. That's not who you are.
35:09: You need to find out who you are in Christ. So be studying Christ, love him, cling to his word, know it backwards and front as much as you can apply yourself to knowing the word of God, dig in and get into it and apply it to your life.
35:25: That's something that, as I said, I wish I had done more of when I was in high school and college. And you're definitely in that same age that I was in when
35:32: I was squandering those good years I could have been using to study the word of God more and pray.
35:38: And I wasn't doing that. So at age 21, I wanted to get married. I was like you.
35:44: I desired to have it sooner rather than later. I didn't get married till I was 29. That just kind of tells you how long you might end up having to wait before you get married.
35:54: I think it's better to do it sooner rather than later because then you get to start having kids and you can enjoy some strong years physically to play with your children as opposed to waiting until later when you don't have as much energy anymore to keep up with your kids.
36:11: I'm tired all the time. Amen, babe. Amen. Who's been yawning multiple times over the course of this episode.
36:20: So I don't know. Is there anything else I might need to add to that? Well, I mean, you're young enough that if you wanted to take a college course, now would be the time to do it too.
36:30: I mean, even if you're older and you're single still, then take a college course from one of the.
36:36: You're talking like a seminary. Yeah, like a seminary and learn more about where your interest lies and see about diving in a little bit deeper, being led through it.
36:46: Yeah, and I hope that you take my advice on joining a good church because no one is going to help you understand these things better than your elders that you should subject yourself to.
36:59: Or if you've got some brother in the Lord who is helping to mentor you and grow you ask your brothers.
37:04: Like, what do you see? What sort of gifts do you see me having? How could I be applying those things now?
37:11: Right. Since you are not married and it may not be happening for you in the near future, go overseas, man.
37:17: Maybe you have an opportunity there to preach the gospel in another part of the world and you get to experience that.
37:24: I've heard Paul Washer say that's something that young men should aspire to do. They should desire to go overseas and then come home and have your family.
37:32: Right. But spend some of those younger years while you have the energy and the chance to be able to go and do it, to get overseas and spread the gospel in another part of the world and experience that before you settle yourself down in a career and with a wife and kids.
37:48: I don't even know if you have to go overseas anymore. Just go to a different part of the country where it's overran by non -Christians.
37:57: Very secular places or even inner city places that are very poor.
38:03: So if you can't afford it, then that would be the way to go even. I mean, just be sure to be safe about it, but yeah.
38:09: But I would say that still all comes from the advice of your church. Exactly. What do they say? Do they see in you a young man who would be able to do something like that?
38:17: Right. So that's certainly something to consider. And who knows, maybe while you're on mission overseas, you find a woman that you're looking for or that God has for you.
38:27: That's happened to more than one person we've known. Is that right? Nobody's coming to mind at the present, but you can tell me off air.
38:35: Okay. So I think that's it. We're going to wrap that up for today. And thank you so much for everyone who sent us email.
38:44: Remember, you can send your email to when we understand the text at gmail .com.
38:49: Next couple of what videos that are coming up are going to be on the Hebrew Roots Movement and a common online
38:57: YouTube ministry that's called Unlearn the Lies. Okay. Which is Hebrew Roots at its foundation.
39:04: The guy that teaches on those videos is Hebrew Roots. And it's full of lies. Well, there you go.
39:10: Unlearn the Lies is just going to teach a bunch of lies. So anyway. Different ones. Yes.
39:16: Any requests for videos, you can sure send those requests to us as well. And we'll be back again on Monday as we get deeper into Titus Chapter 2.
39:27: Then we'll continue Nehemiah on Thursday. Amen, babe? Amen. Let's pray.
39:33: Looking forward to that sermon too. Sermon on Sunday. That's right. I did Penal Substitutionary Atonement.
39:41: Yes. So it was 2 Corinthians 5 21. I heard from somebody this week. I can't remember who it was.
39:47: Oh, it's going to bug me. But I heard from somebody just this past week. And unfortunately, it was after I did the sermon.
39:52: But it was like, what's another way of saying I love you? Penal Substitutionary Atonement.
39:58: Yep. There you go. Amen. Yes. Jesus Christ, who took our sins upon Himself with His death on the cross, and He has clothed us in His righteousness.
40:09: All those who believe on His name have turned from sin and worship the Lord. We have been given the righteousness of God, a righteousness that's not of ourselves, but is a gift by the grace of God.
40:21: Amen. Let us praise Him now for His grace and His mercy and also lift up in prayer some of these whom we have heard from on the podcast today.
40:32: Yes. Our Lord, I thank You for the salvation that we've been given in Christ. And I pray that as we continue to study
40:39: Your Word, that we may come to appreciate these things deeper and all the more.
40:45: These things that are divinely mysterious to us even now, but we grow in understanding the mystery in Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, as Paul wrote about in Colossians chapter 2.
40:57: So we come to Christ daily, a desire to learn more about Him. And then at the same time, we are being shaped into the image of Christ, into the image of the
41:07: Son. Lord, I thank You for those who have listened today and have sent us emails.
41:13: And I want to pray for Dan, who is in a church right now that is considering plurality eldership.
41:19: And I pray that You would lead them in wisdom, that they seek the Scriptures. They want to know what it is that God has said through His apostles, even on how a church is supposed to be organized and operate.
41:31: So in all things, we would be obedient and submissive to God and Your will.
41:36: I pray also for Canaan in New Zealand, as he is encountering some people that are caught up in a cult, and out of love and affection for them, desiring for them to be one out of this cult, that You would give him wise words to speak.
41:50: And You would give these cultists soft hearts, that they would listen to what it is that Canaan has to say and be willing to hear what is spoken from the
41:59: Word of God, the true Word that is the Bible, not the subjective feelings that they may have or what they've heard some guy to say, claiming to be
42:08: Christ and is blaspheming God. I pray that You would give them repentance, that they may turn from this cult and come to know the truth according to Your Word and be united with Your true church in Jesus Christ.
42:23: And lastly, I also want to pray for Jeremy in Michigan, as he is continuing to think about or explore what
42:31: Your will would happen to be for him. Remind him of what You have said in Your Word, that Paul wrote to the
42:38: Thessalonians, this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus, that You would give thanks in all circumstances.
42:45: And so let this time for Jeremy be a time of praise, that he rejoices in You for who
42:51: You are, the salvation that You've given to him in Christ. And regardless of whatever comes down the road, he knows that he's got the greatest thing that could be given to anyone, and that is fellowship with God through our
43:05: Lord Jesus Christ. Keep him faithful to the Word, keep him growing in holiness. And I pray that this would be a prayer for all of us, that we would desire in all of our contexts, in all of our circumstances, no matter our background, where we're from, where we're living right now, that we would do all things to the glory of God, and obey that command given in Philippians 4, 4, rejoice in the
43:28: Lord always. I will say it again, rejoice. In the name of Christ we pray, Amen.
43:34: Amen. This is
44:43: When We Understand the Text, a daily Bible study in the sound words of our, in the sound words of our
44:49: Lord Jesus Christ. Yeah. Ah, that sounds better.
44:55: This is When We Understand the Text, a daily Bible study of the sound of the word, of the sound words.
45:01: Oh my goodness. I'm pulling on my cord. I'm sorry. I'm like pulling my head down. Down a little further, a little further.
45:12: Go take a nap. So low I can't hear you. So low. This is
45:21: When We Understand the Text, a daily Bible study of the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the teaching that produces godliness.
45:29: Find all our videos through our website at www .utt .com.
45:34: Here once again is Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. You sure you want to keep that?
45:41: I kind of stuttered in the middle of it. Yeah, you stuttered in there enough that I can like take them out.
45:46: Oh, lovely. So I could have kept going, but you seem quite perplexed.
45:52: Yeah, because I was expecting you to say, all right, again. Okay, you now may do it again.
46:01: Yay, thanks. But I could have edited that out.
46:08: I had some extra syllables in there. I could have edited it out, right? Yes. All right.
46:14: I was about to, and he yells at me. Wow, that was loud.
46:26: This is when we understand the text, a daily Bible study of the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the teaching of that produces.