Apologetics Live 0001 | CARM | Matt Slick | Andrew Rappaport | Striving for Eternity HD 720p

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00:00

You may have yourself selected But that's what that means. But it started to be looking good in the morning started.

00:08

This is what happens when it's live Okay, so here's the beginning of what we should have played in the beginning of the show. Ready Matt go for it

00:14

Statements either true or false. I gave you a statement and you said it doesn't apply It's not only to that statement would be either true or false

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So is it true that I'm talking to you? Is it true? That is true statement. I'm talking to you.

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Is that true? Yes, okay. Is it true that babies exist? Well, I mean

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Babies exist babies exist. Is that true? Or is it not the case?

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That is true Okay, we're done

00:55

This is Apologetics Live with Matt Slick and Andrew Rappaport part of the

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Christian podcast community All right,

01:17

Matt Slick from karm .org Yes, that is the intro we have for now But we don't know if that's going to be the intro for good because we're gonna be looking for I think a contest for intros

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Cuz I know that's not a bad idea You didn't like the first thing that John came up with but No, we just need something simple we don't need to get all this fancy stuff

01:38

We just say, you know Hey Welcome to Matt Slick live blah blah blah blah blah or whatever it is Apologetics live and we just start talking because I find that just because you can do something doesn't mean you ought to do something

01:49

All right, so Matt before I know Folks if you're watching this on YouTube if you go to apologetics live .com

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from there, you'll see the links where you can join in ask questions of Matt and And so that will be something you could do now

02:07

We do have at least one person in here now and I think I think this is the Scott who contacted me on Twitter So we're gonna get to him in a bit

02:14

He wants to talk about social justice stuff with us, but Matt first before we go. I there's one thing

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I just before we get started, you know, I had something I wanted to play. It's it's a little bit longer

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It's it's like 10 minutes, but I think this it's a good start for us It'll get you in a good mood or not

02:33

You ready for this? All right. All right So let's play this.

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So John what exactly happened this weekend? And how is it that you came up with this idea and plan?

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I knew that you were gonna be coming like six months or so or whatever it was And so I was a little looking forward to having you here and it struck me like, you know

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Really funny if I got like Matt Slick to do something for Andrew as far as the whole

02:59

Buying you a meal and because I know about that struggle that he has and so So what

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I wanted to do, I contacted Matt Slick and I and I gave him the idea I just kind of planted that little seed in his brain thinking.

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Hey, wouldn't it be great if you can show up? You know while Andrew is here in Washington You can like magically just show up here and surprise him and and pay for his meal.

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That would just be awesome He's like, oh, I wish I could I would love to do that But I got to take care of the wife and you know, and I got other things to do and I just won't be able

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To make it. Okay. Okay. So I thought okay, how about then? How about I go to the the restaurant wherever we're at?

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And then I'll give you a call and then I'll pan the phone over to the waitress or the cashier and you can pay

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The meal right through the phone and he loved the idea. He was like, oh, yeah, that would be great

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So then I passed that information over to Aaron and Aaron was going to go ahead and set up the details when it came to that Be okay.

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So so let's start with this right right off the bat. I'll stop this for a second here So you and John had this plan, huh?

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Yeah, yeah, well Aaron's gonna explain a little bit of what happened and why it was a fail

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That it was probably he had a better idea we're gonna get back one day So I will pass it off to you.

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I concur with John that this was many months in the planning there was a lot of time and effort text message

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Facebook messaging that went into this and we I drove by the restaurant

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Thursday at 315 and I spoke with Daniel the manager who gave me his assurance that Clara the hostess the following night would be in full agreement with this plan.

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He said it sounded like a great thing Reviewing and assessing our efforts so far.

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It seemed that threatened you he would Probably resort to the maturity of a five -year -old.

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I went through every effort This was a no No Would you actually believe that I would act like a five -year -old there

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Matt to try to prevent you from buying me lunch you you wouldn't Possibly believe that would you? I have no idea what you're talking about this point.

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Well, would I would I argue with the hostess? To I wasn't there.

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So you gotta tell us But do you would you make I mean is it believable that I would argue like a five -year -old?

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Just to make sure you don't out slick me. Yes So Essentially because Aaron went on for about ten minutes.

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So he's too long. So here's the thing eventually, what happened was I Managed to get this beautiful bad boy for you, which is the bill that I paid for myself when

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I out slicked you yet again You're gonna get me back one day, aren't you it's gonna happen

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Yes, well it is and I'm gonna have to eat a lot of crow aren't I yeah, yeah barbecued

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Alright, so I'm gonna add in Scott let me Let me give you some

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The Twitter that Scott had he tweeted and brought him in So Scott had said and and Scott you'll tell me if this is the same person

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I'm gonna assume that you are but it says Andrew he said

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I'm I'm not I volunteer as a tribute I'm not anyone special that you can cat you can categorize me as one of the woke

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Millennials You mentioned on the podcast episode. He's referring to the rap report podcast and just listening in So he has some concerns with social justice now where I thought this would be good

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Matt is because as I bring him in You're you haven't been following all the stuff with social justice.

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So no, I I figured to be better To have him discuss with you concerns.

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He has with social justice You approach it from a biblical perspective and what the issues we'd see with it and that way this could be something where You can you know, maybe help

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Scott see where the biblical position would be. So Scott welcome to the hangout Hello, can you hear me?

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Yes I want to make sure my my headset is my

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Bluetooth headset is coming through. Okay, okay You are coming through Awesome So, so what's your concerns with the social justice and and let's see if Matt can help you go, you know work through this from a biblical perspective yeah, so I guess

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And I want to I guess start off by saying I appreciate the invite

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Honestly wasn't expecting an invitation to a live conversation. I was more interested

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Expecting maybe some more interaction on Twitter, but I appreciate the the invite and the opportunity

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And I guess Just for your audience in terms of my background

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Can you can you speak up a little bit? Yeah Or Matt what you can do is maybe you can go into the control room and just raise his volume up Yeah, go ahead.

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Let's keep talking. I'll take care of that one word. So Yes, so Scott.

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So what's your issues with social justice? Why you know, you you obviously you should for yourself being woke

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I want you to explain to Matt what that is so that we can you see he can interact with you on that Sure, and I and I want to get to that But I just want to let you a little bit from a biographical standpoint and and how

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I would I would prefer to approach the conversation if that's okay I think that would just be helpful from a background standpoint.

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I'd rather not just be the random guy from Twitter if that's okay so so Matt my my name is

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Scott and I've Actually am a Christian Grew up in a

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Christian Household went to a Southern Baptist Church went to a Christian conservative reform

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Christian University Still attend church and heavily involved in church Reform theology

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I Had a passion and was

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Made a hobby out of apologetics growing up as well Did a whole bunch of reading and studying and thinking through the arguments and all that stuff.

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So when I say that I'm a You know a woke millennial that that on in Reference to Andrews podcast

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I was you know, specifically to the context of some of what he was talking about But it was in the context of he had just on that same conversation on Twitter said

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That he was concerned that people were responding to him or were responding to the social justice statement but you know he he wanted them to go listen to his actual his actual podcast and and the some of the explanations that were

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Being given and he was concerned that that wasn't happening instead people were just kind of talking over each other so it's really important to me in this conversation to Hear out as many sides as possible and to You know give the other side their due so I went and listened to the podcast and and then

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I that's when I made my Comment, so I do consider I mean technically you could label me as a quote woke millennial unquote

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I don't mind defending that phrase But you probably are not

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Going to hear from me Or it from a perception standpoint. I'm not maybe what you might like Yes, so just let's get to the discussion

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So so I want you to define Explain what you mean by woke millennial. So so we you guys can dialogue with that.

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I think that's sure Yeah, well, I mean again woke millennial is the phrase that I heard on the podcast in terms of what do

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I have? What are the issues that I have with social justice? there has been Over the last four or five years a significantly significant increase in the church

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And by the church, I'm I'm referring to my corner of the church, which is the more conservative reformed

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Excuse me Baptist A broader evangelical circle About how does you know, how do how does the church engage with social issues?

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And there's been a lot of pushback on the church adopting what is perceived as social justice issues or becoming social justice warriors and my concern or my entrance into this conversation therefore is

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I think that there's probably a lot to be said about agreeing on terminology

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But as I understand it, I don't see there being a With with the way

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I see social justice being defined by some of these pastors and leaders in the church

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I don't see there to be a conflict with that and what I read in Scripture So I guess that's maybe a an opening line or an opening statement but again

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I'm happy to go into any further detail in any one of those areas. If you if you have specific questions,

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I'm Not you What is it you think the church is doing wrong in like one sentence so we can

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I mean I would say that the church is

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Not is Too quickly hearing something that sounds to them like what secular movements are saying and is quickly rushing to Use that definition and understanding and too quickly overlooking how okay

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Well, let me let me jump in. Let me jump in. Let me just jump in Define what social justice is just quickly

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A lot of definitions there for me. I define

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I would define social justice as the parts of society that are not that are that are not as Optimal as they could be.

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Okay, you're not being specific not as optimal as that requires me to say what does that mean? Sure, what is social justice?

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Give me a one -sentence definition. So Try to narrow this down for me personally

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Would you say that it is something where the Christians are supposed to fix social? Problems that happened in the past and they owe people recompense for problems past sins

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I wouldn't necessarily go that far. No What do you find it on? Again I Cuz I don't we're discussing here because you give me a lot of background information

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But I have no idea what to do with it and I need to know what you're talking about in order to discuss it So, what does it mean?

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So what do you think social justice is? So, let me I think I think

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I hear what you're you're asking for let me let me say this then I Think that as far as the church is concerned

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There are issues inside of the church that I think that we need to address that are social justice related

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I think that's related to the ways in which the church Has not lived up to the scripture in the past speaking specifically about slavery, but I think that there are some okay

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I you know what? I'm sorry, but I'm just Waiting for you to define it And I'm asking the same thing over and over again

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And then you don't define it and I'm not trying to be rude, but you're just talking and so what do you

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I mean? I can come back in a half hour when you're done talking about it and then ask you what are you talking about?

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I mean seriously Can you be more specific? Yes, what is social justice?

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social justice is Bringing justice to those areas of our communities and society

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That are not explicitly dealt with by law Okay, so what about it?

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I Would I'm I guess I'm confused. That's how I define it. Okay, okay

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So you define it as something that are you saying Christians need to be involved with fixing things in society?

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I Absolutely believe that what things should they fix give me two or give me one just just I don't get a long thing

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What's one thing they need to fix in society? Respectfully I I believe that Christians should be involved in Fixing as much as we can in society because that's all give me one thing so that we can focus on the one thing

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I can talk about it because you say all kind of things give me one a specific

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Something that I've been looking into recently is how in the when it comes to foster care the foster care system and deciding

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How kids when when a child is taken away from their parents and put in the foster care system? There are a foster care

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Differences foster care. Sorry, what? Okay, just foster care. So one of the issues that needs to be fixed is foster care

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Okay, so What are we why are we talking about this

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I don't understand You have a question for me or you want this as a platform to say stuff

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Let me give it this way. Let me ask it this. So do you being that you use the term woke?

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Do you believe that Matt and I and I guess you being white are? racists

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No Okay, so that's So the term woke means that we have woken up to the social justice that the church is the the cause of racism that the

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Well, he brought up the issue of What was it foster care foster care?

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Yeah, I I don't know what he's talking about I mean, yeah things should be better. He's saying things should be better in society.

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Yeah, they should be Okay, I told you all I had to say After all this was things need to be better in society.

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Yeah, I agree now what? So I would say things need to be better in society.

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I think everyone agrees with that I hope everyone agrees with that. Well, you've taken 15 minutes to get to that or 10 minutes

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Are we going to continue? I'm a little like I'm a little bit put off by a constant

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Non -explanation of Things that I have to wait and I'm sorry. It's just difficult to even know what you're getting at I had to extract it out of you so you

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Yeah, so so Let me let me come at this from a different way then no, no, no, no, no

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If you have a question Just ask me the question and we can have a discussion Because if you come in from different way,

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I'll be waiting for that or five minutes based on what you've already done Just what's your okay?

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What is it? Yeah, so let me let me come back with a question then What do you think?

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Basin from Scripture, what do you think is the Christians obligation to?

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Like how would you teach The what obligation a

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Christian has to work for the good of their society, right? Obviously we we take care of you ask me the question.

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Okay, that's a question. That's the question. Let me answer the question Okay What we need to do is preach the gospel and get people converted

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We need to be praying that God would raise up people godly people we need to vote properly and we need to voice

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What needs to be voiced at the right time in unison against unrighteousness and but the gospel needs to be the thing that's going to save people

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That's what we need to do change people in their hearts But you will change other issues if we try and do moralism

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Moralism by saying let's just change how adoption is done how this is done. How that it the externals. We're not going to win the battle

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We're not going to win the battle Certainly, and I wouldn't I would not disagree that the gospel needs to be central

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To any work that is done I would then follow up with another question when you say we need to vote as the number two item on the list

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How should a Christian vote according to Scripture? He should vote according to Scripture Certainly, I would say that there are there are arguments that could be made that Christians shouldn't that because democratic forms of government are not found in the

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Bible Then then we really don't have an obligation to vote.

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How about that? Where is there an obligation to vote that we find in Scripture? Okay, I'm really frustrated with you and I am

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I don't feel like we're getting anywhere you keep asking me one question You know, I can go to Romans 13 and say be subject to the government

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We're set up the system that we are right now. So what we do is we vote this is simple stuff. So Scripture that's going to talk about in a

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System of government that never existed before that time. You didn't you didn't have people getting that that the

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American voting system Right, but that's precisely

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I asked the re I asked the question for a reason The reason I asked the question is because we don't have

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American representative forms of government found in Scripture We have to apply Scripture as best as possible to the society that we live in The concern that I have with social justice is that there is a theme of social justice in the broader secular world which is

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We need to use the government to fix all of the problems that we've caused for ourselves in the past.

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I Do not agree with that However when I see prominent

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Christian leaders even whole churches say We think that Certain issues are important that made not

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May not match up perfectly to a certain Political party or may require may involve some form of we're done.

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We're done. We're done with I'm sorry We're just moving on. You're just taking thinking ever.

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I'm really frustrated listening to you and we're not having a discussion I think you want your own show to be able to teach this stuff.

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No, I Let's just yeah Okay last question no, he's gone

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Okay. Oh, okay. I guess Okay, because the same thing is going on and on and on it's been 15 minutes at least listening to him

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He's not saying anything and I'm just wasting a move just in your waiting time wasting time.

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Just what's the point? There's no point I just move on to somebody else. Yeah, I mean the thing the thing with what woke means and all this it's it's there is an issue within the church where people are

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Saying that the church is not doing enough and you're hearing it from him Matt actually because what was he talking about politics you answered the question the

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Gospels the solution I Answered him and then we what

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I'm finding is, you know, I try not to be rude I try to be as patient as possible, but it became well,

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I just say aggravating I ask a question He doesn't simply answer a question.

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He goes on and pontificates for a long period of time. Well, what's the question? Well, let me get to this. I'll check out a different way

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You know, he needs his own show where he can just pontificate and everybody wants to talk to him Let's just move along see if anybody else has anything

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And I'm probably not gonna pronounce his name, right it looks Russian maybe but but Mikhail if you want to unmute yourself and Then you can tell me how much

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I butchered your name So maybe I can't other I know you haven't butchered it.

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It's Mikhail Mikhail, where's it from? It is okay, so I guessed right but pronounced wrong

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You look like you're behind a veil there or something You're in a semi -truck, okay.

24:37

Well don't drive off the road don't I hope you You got a you got a question for Matt anything any any apologetical questions or or things that you

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Would like him to answer There's been a question that I've been thinking about Years ago, but I think

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I found the answer maybe I'll ask you maybe I'll feel bring some clarification like more clarification

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What is it in the essence in the texture of blood?

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That makes it appropriate for the atonement of sin The life is in the blood.

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That's x 17 11 17 14. And so God has declared the life is in the blood and what he's talking about is the essence of what the blood represents when the blood drains out you die and Since the wages of sin is death and death is a physical spiritual thing separation from God the manifestation of that Is it a physical sense as well, which is declared by God in Genesis 2 17?

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So the blood represents that aspect of the life and so it became a Symbol metaphor for the essence of what a person is and this is why it says we're cleansed by the blood of Christ Physical blood doesn't have any act ability to cleanse.

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It's just blood but what is What we have to understand is that the blood of Christ is something different The blood of Christ is the blood that life aspect of who

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Christ is Represented by that blood in the shedding of blood which is said to cleanse us of our sins when it's actually what

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God does Through our faith that he grants to us in justification by which we are then

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Made right before God that blood is that representative of the life of God on the cross who died

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To give us the forgiveness of our sins that help Yeah, that's what

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I that's what I thought basically it's life Yeah, and you can go to Leviticus 17 14 for the life is in the blood and for this reason the sacrifice is given

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Because they equate it like that. That's what just got what God does this like not act 1711

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I hope I didn't say that it's Leviticus 17 11 1714 I got all these verses in my head that are similar act 1711 is one thing the

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Bereans are more mobile minded But I'm talking about is Leviticus 17 14 There's also

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Leviticus 17 11, but that's another one so and help Yes, it did.

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Okay Right good All right, so I Brought you have any other questions?

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Michael say it again, but he hailed Michiel give any other questions

27:24

I've been thinking about the Trinity is try personality of God Necessary I Mean is there a possible world where God can know himself not being a

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Trinity and it's not Is it a logical contradiction for God not to be try personal

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God can only express his own nature in his essence, and that's what he's done He's revealed himself for what he is as a

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Trinity. There's no other possibility. That is what God is But not possible for another universe to be where God wouldn't be a

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Trinity because God is a Trinity He revealed it to us and that's it. That's that's his nature. That's his essence So he is tracing necessarily

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He's Trinity by nature not necessarily as if he's obligated to be one it's that he just is

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Trinitarian in his essence Which is how he is. I get that.

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I just want to dig deeply philosophically and logically Logically without the

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Trinity we really can't be saved We have to have the one who is offended be the one who pays for the forgiveness of our sins

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And that's another topic. But what we see is that God is unchangeable Malachi 3 6

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Everlasting to everlasting. He is God Psalm 90 verse 2 So he is in it's called immutability that his essence and his nature does not change

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This is who he is, but he was 922 for that. That's what he is So since he has revealed his nature and his essence to us in the

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Bible and what we call the Trinity Then we can only say that's just what he is That's what he's revealed himself as as being and it's not a necessity of him being

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Trinitarian It's a revelation of him being Trinitarian Nothing obligates him to be

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Trinitarian other than we could say other than just that's what he is It just is that Okay, make sense

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Not really God is holy, right? God is holy.

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I understand the necessity of God. God is a necessary be right but His attribute of Tri -personality, how can that be also necessary?

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So that's part of what he is. What we want to say to try persons just a person three persons But that's just because that's just what he is

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It just is that There's God He reveals that he's a

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Trinity we go. Oh, that's what you are. Okay good. Well, why is he that? Why is he because that's what he is

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He's that because that's what he is We can't say why he is that Because that would mean what brought him into origin if it was that case, which didn't happen.

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Why is he like this? Is there some rule? No, there's some rule No, it's just it's just what he is and he revealed himself to us as what he is the

30:29

Trinitarian sense Similar to all we can just like that's it. Yeah, why why is

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God love? Yeah, why is God love because he is Stopping just this

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There's no why to it it's just that's just what he is. Well, I'm curious I know you basically have like so much the

30:52

Bible memorized in your head Here's one. I don't know if you know Deuteronomy 29 29.

30:58

Are you familiar with that one? Dude, right. He's gonna lazy. I got at least one verse

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I've memorized that the bad Deuteronomy 29 29 is perfect for this the secret things belong unto the

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Lord That which he has revealed to us them Now I'm paraphrasing because I don't have it right the secret things belong to the

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Lord our God But the but the things that are revealed to belong to us and our children

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Forever that we may do all the words of the law. So basically There's gonna be some things we're never gonna know

31:34

So we heard the voice of mr. John So welcome John you have a question or do you want to just apologize to Matt for Let's just go into discussing apologetics seriously because that's what

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I'm all geared to do apologetics and Otherwise, we're off topic for a long time and it's gonna wait till we're done

31:55

X that's what I've been looking forward to answering questions and let's just do that.

32:01

I'll get John later All right, so I'm gonna add in now

32:09

Matt. I don't know quite how this one's gonna go When it calls himself anonymous guy

32:16

Okay, and he says that he is a traditional Catholic that so I'm gonna let him ask you his question

32:23

So I don't see him on camera Looks like his camera is covered but an honest guy.

32:29

Can you? You're not muted. I guess he is anonymous.

32:39

I mean we see Right now by coming in loud and clear. Yeah, we hear you.

32:45

Oh you're you Okay. I don't know why it is. But when I whenever I plug in my my earphones it it seems to prohibit me from Getting through.

32:55

Okay Okay, yeah with regards to Baptism That's like you gave the context of what you believe 1

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Peter 3 20 318 through 22 says and I don't

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I don't necessarily disagree with you. I actually agree with what you said And there's numerous

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There's numerous Protestants and and and even within Catholicism is different theologians and and so forth that have given different expectations of what baptism now saves you refers to And some of them agree with you in Catholicism they agree with you and Some of them will say it's not the ark.

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It's the water and some of them will say that it's referring to verse 18 Jesus Christ himself and Some will say it's refers to verse 22 his resurrection.

33:55

So and then there's some that says You know, there's a combination of those where it might be referring to two of them might be referring to all of them

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But I like your explanation about the ark because you said that a

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Argument of Jesus Christ you connected it to Jesus Christ in the

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New Covenant and his sacrifice for our sins Amazingly, that's what many

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Catholic theologians have said as well. Good. So therefore Baptism now saves you by your own admission

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Is connected to Jesus Christ sacrifice on the cross for our sins You're making too much of a leap at that point ultimately, that would be the case but the context of first Peter 321 is

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Antetokounmpo and according to that or in an antitype of that baptism now saves you So what is he referring to?

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What's the antecedent? Well, if it's the ark you just saying corresponding to the issue of faith in the ark

34:55

They entered by faith baptism saves you not the removal of derp in the flesh. He's talking about it's not a water issue

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Seems to be a faith issue. That's what's kind of baptism. It seems to be what's going on What you're saying 100 % with what you're saying it's a faith issue, but it's not a faith issue under the

35:16

Old Testament with what we have under the Old Testament. It's a faith issue under the New Covenant so therefore in in Catholicism, for example

35:25

It's not a valid baptism unless one has the faith. You do not receive the justification there to from the water baptism

35:32

Unless you have the faith so therefore What happens is?

35:38

What's happening is it's that the salvation you said yourself is connected to the ark

35:44

But you said it was a prefigurement to Jesus Christ sacrifice on the cross so therefore

35:50

When we look at verse 18 all the way through 22, it starts off with Jesus's sacrifice on the cross

35:59

And and then it ends with Jesus's resurrection in verse 22 and so Whether you say it's connected to the ark or some say it's about the water or some say it's specifically about verse 18

36:14

Jesus's sacrifice No matter which one you point to It always comes back to the saving grace of the new covenant because jesus because peter's

36:27

Is not water baptism under the old covenant. It's under the new covenant. So what's your what's your point or question?

36:33

Okay Well, it's not really a question it's a statement and i'm agreeing with you because you're you said you connected the ark

36:41

Why are you still a catholic? Because you pointed out the catholic view you pointed out the catholic view which is that I believe in the trinity and the catholic church does too does a very good job of defending the doctrine of the trinity

36:56

It doesn't mean the catholic church is true or that you should belong to it So, I don't know what so what you want to say something specific about baptism or or what?

37:06

What do you want to say? Well, I mean because because of what you've said the question goes back to you why are you a calvinist because Uh, the calvinist don't accept water baptism.

37:16

So i'm predestined to be a Yeah, well from my understanding they don't accept water baptism a justification through water baptism

37:26

They don't believe that justification occurs through water baptism, correct? Yeah, and neither do

37:31

I and so you've misrepresented my position and what you've done I've listened as you've tried to make me get to say something.

37:36

I haven't said which tells me that uh How do I say this politely because it's going to sound so mean

37:42

I just don't think you've been very uh Sincere and that's not the right word.

37:47

Yeah um Logically consistent that's a better way to put it Uh in your application of what you think

37:53

I believe And trying to carry it to a conclusion to try and get me to contradict what I believe in other areas

37:58

And you've just gone through and not connected the dots the issue here in uh, first peter 2 3 21

38:05

Is that water baptism is not the thing that makes you right with god When peter says baptism now saves you not the removal of dirt from the flesh.

38:13

That's the issue of the water He says corresponding to that now You know some scholars say that what is referred to the corresponding to the antecedent of that is the water

38:22

Some say that and some say it's the ark. I don't believe it's the water I believe it's the ark and that's just what

38:27

I hold to and that was by faith alone. They entered they entered by faith I mean

38:34

Consistently, I believe so. What's the big deal? Well, okay, you said faith alone and I don't necessarily disagree with that either because Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with that either because in catholicism water baptism is not a work of ourselves

38:50

It's a work done by jesus christ It's something that he did on the cross. That's what they could say

38:56

But uh, just saying it doesn't make any difference. Look, let me ask you. Can you define for me what a ceremony is?

39:04

I mean seriously Well, it's it's a participation and uh, well when you mean ceremony,

39:10

I would guess that are you speaking about? Rituals with regards to catholicism Okay.

39:15

No, I just said define ceremony Okay, i'm looking it up right now a formal religious or public occasion typically one celebrating a particular event or anniversary uh, the ritual observances and procedures performed at grand informal occasions

39:32

Uh, let's go. What are you reading from? What is it that you're reading? I just read the dictionaries on on online

39:37

I just went to it. Here's vocabulary .com A formal event performed on a special occasion an activity that is performed on a special solemn

39:48

Elaborate or formal way I could go to let's see. You gotta know where our terms are because You'll see why in a minute dictionary .com

39:57

The formal activities conducted on some solemn or important public or state occasion a formal religious or sacred observance

40:07

Formal observances, so let me ask you would you say circumcision is a ceremony? Um, I I would know about that.

40:16

Um Is communion It's something god commanded, but I don't know if he ever described it as a ceremony

40:23

I have no idea. Does god command us to perform ceremonies like, um participating in the uh last supper well,

40:31

I I would certainly think that uh, he does uh command us if for example marriage that's a ceremony, okay,

40:39

I would think that Two people could simply say we're married just like that and they're married.

40:44

That wouldn't be you know What I agree, you know a formal ceremony So a ceremony we would say is something that is done in space and time

40:51

Right, I mean a ceremony has to occur Right. We go to a funeral and it's a ceremony.

40:58

We go through a marriage. I've done funerals. I've done marriages Some of which needs to be public for example marriage

41:06

I would think that would need to be something that's You know Is baptism a ceremony?

41:13

Well, I would think that it's a it's a if you could say that it's a ceremony in the sense that it can be public

41:20

And it's a ceremony a formal occasion Okay, uh, but I would say that it would necessarily have to be public in that sense

41:28

I mean somebody could get water baptized without anybody else knowing about it So it's a ceremony

41:36

Something that occurs in space and time that's a religious event That is done and repeated.

41:41

Okay, so then you're saying that we're safe No, no, no There's one baptism

41:48

Ephesians four or five one faith one order one baptism, but let me finish it's one it's repeated Because the same ceremony occurs over and over and over again with different people throughout the centuries

41:58

Yes Okay. So you're are you saying then i'm just asking are you saying we're saved by faith in a ceremony?

42:06

I'm saying that we're saved by both faith and participating In a a ceremony if you want to call it that.

42:14

Okay Okay, can you be because peter himself because peter himself and let me explain why because peter himself

42:22

Said to the those who had faith they were believers so one could say they had faith

42:28

They were believers, but he said he called on those that already were believers To get water baptized to receive the indwelling of the holy spirit, which means

42:38

That they did not have the indwelling of the holy spirit simply by believing simply by holding the faith

42:43

They needed to get water baptized in order to have that indwelling And you can't find anywhere in scripture where it says a believer had the indwelling

42:52

Of of the holy spirit prior to baptism You can say they had the holy spirit of the gifts when it says they received the holy spirit because they were speaking in tongues

43:03

And they they had the gifts of the holy spirit But they never had the indwelling of the holy spirit.

43:08

And I mean why else would peter say that? Explain why peter would say that So while peter was still speaking these words

43:16

The holy spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message and all the uncircumcised believers who are with peter were amazed because the

43:21

Gift the holy spirit had been poured out on the gentiles also for they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting god Speaking in tongues and exalting god are charismatic gifts given to the christians in the church correct

43:34

Right. So it's speaking. No, it doesn't hold on a sec It doesn't the bible doesn't say christians in the church with regards to those prior to water baptism, it doesn't refer to them as christians

43:44

Uh, are they christians that they're speaking in tongues and glorifying god or they unbelievers?

43:51

No, they're not christians until they receive water baptism then they're Then they're so christian to the church.

43:57

You're saying you're saying christians. So then you're you're saying they're not even christian. They're not even saved until they get uh baptized in water

44:06

Correct because when we look at what they said Stop stop.

44:11

Stop. Stop. So then what you're saying is you if you keep doing that you I'm asking simple questions.

44:18

I don't need explanations 18 times. So i'm just working with you So you're saying then we're not justified by faith or said justified by faith in a ceremony

44:26

That's what you're saying Matt you gotta unmute him now. I didn't do anything. I did.

44:31

No, I muted him Okay, where is he? He's anonymous The one uh,

44:38

I I muted or he hold on What Okay, anonymous guy you can unmute yourself but You know if you're going to speak over matt constantly

44:51

And and give long explanations when he's trying to he's trying to have a dialogue with you and he's trying to gather information

44:58

So that he can answer the questions, but okay, there you go. Let him do that Okay, hold on okay,

45:04

I think I got it now sorry you're there Okay, can you hear me? Are you able to hear me?

45:10

Yeah. Yeah, that was just okay There's a bit of a there's a bit of a lag on my on my uh pad. So Uh, but you do ask me a question.

45:18

I am trying to explain to you So you're kind of cutting me off every time i'm trying to answer your question

45:24

But what you're doing is giving me a lengthy explanation each and every time you don't need to if I say if it's a yes Or no question just say yes or no

45:30

You believe that you have to be justified before god by faith in a ceremony. That's what you're saying You say well peter says we already went over what peter said in first peter 3 21

45:39

Okay, but what i'm just trying to get to the point what you're saying is that's a Ceremony is what's necessary along with faith in order to be saved

45:47

You're saying you can't be saved by faith alone in christ alone. That means you're saying people go to hell

45:52

Okay. Well, you don't believe the bible. Okay. Well, you know, that means you're you're not saying You have a false gospel does your faith alone?

46:00

Yes, it does No, it doesn't yes, it does Well, then show me a verse in the bible where it has the words faith alone together.

46:10

There's only one place. I tell you what? Anonymous, I tell you what I tell you what I tell you what

46:15

I tell you what show me a verse in the bible That says the trinity is one god and three distinct simultaneous persons

46:21

Go ahead. Show me that Well, I mean you're claiming that the bible says excuse me, excuse me,

46:27

I ask you a question show me that I'm applying the same principle that you're demanding of me to you

46:35

What i'm trying to show you is that what you're demanding is unreasonable I'm trying to demonstrate that to you you affirm the trinity

46:42

But the reason you affirm the trinity is because it's arrived at systematically And if I were to say to you show me the exact words

46:48

Obviously, that's not the right question Is it if you were to say and I know that catholics do this on purpose construct?

46:54

A certain sentence it has to be a certain way when it does not accurately represent the issue at hand

46:59

Then I know you're being problematic and not logical See, here's the thing.

47:04

This is what the bible says. I'm going to read you romans 4 1 through 5 What then shall we say that abraham our forefather according to the flesh is found for if abraham was justified by works?

47:14

He has something to boast about but not before god Would you agree that what paul is talking about in romans 4 is justification before god so far

47:26

Well, I I don't know why you're pointing to abraham abraham didn't live under the new covenant

47:31

Therefore he would have received the justification under the new covenant whereby he could be saved So therefore it would not have been justification before god for anything he did

47:41

At least not just so unto so So when it says for if abraham was justified by works he has something to boast about before but not before god

47:49

Are we talking about justification before god? Well, if we're talking about justification under the new covenant, it wouldn't apply to anybody under the old covenant

48:00

Are we talking about? Okay, is the text talking about justification before god

48:08

It's not talking about the justification of the new covenant. Therefore. It's irrelevant Okay Um, is it talking about justification before god look in the text

48:23

Is verse 2 of romans 4 talking about justification before god? For if abraham was justified by works has something to boast about but not before god

48:33

His justification is not before god. Is the text talking about justification before god?

48:40

Well, if it's saying that he was not justified before god, then that would be true. He was not justified before god

48:47

Is Yes, it's talking about justification before god. Great. The next verse says this

48:55

What does the scripture say abraham believed god and was credited him as righteousness? now the next verse verse 4

49:05

Now to the one who works his wage is not credited as a favor, but what is due? Notice what he says here notice that that was in the present tense

49:13

Notice that this is in the present tense verse 5 but to the one who does not work But believes in him who justifies the ungodly his faith is credited as righteousness.

49:24

Is that present tense? That's present tense. It's present tense to that time period

49:31

Not the not the time period prior to the new covenant, but the time period in which paul was speaking

49:37

Is paul speaking in the new covenant? He's speaking about those that were performing works under the old covenant and also those that were performing works

49:48

The new covenant now but to the one who does not work but believes all present tense Is it under the new covenant?

49:54

He's talking? No, he's speaking he's referring because he was speaking against the judizers in context he was speaking against the judizers

50:02

So they were going around. Okay, stop stop stop So what it says here is but to the one who does not work that's not talking about present christians at the time

50:12

One who does not work but believes that's not talking about the christians at the time the people at the time

50:19

Well, as you know that the judizers were going around preaching to the christians at that time telling them that they had to perform

50:28

I'm asking you a question We'll get to judizers later. Look what it says here in romans 4 the judizers are in galatians 3 and 5.

50:37

This is romans But to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly his faith is

50:44

Credit is righteousness. Is he speaking the present tense of the christians there? He's speaking in present tense to the christians there because they were believing that what the judizers were saying

50:56

Was that they needed to continue in the old covenant works? He was speaking against that saying that those old covenant works

51:04

Excuse me, excuse me. So the answer is yes. He was speaking to the christians there

51:11

So he was speaking to the christians there now in verse five There's only two things discussed belief

51:19

And works, right? I mean are the things that we do and involve with us belief and works, right?

51:27

Correct the one who does not work. Okay good. So when you only have two things and you remove one the other one's by itself, right?

51:34

Okay. Yes, correct. So if works are not involved in his faith alone, right? Well, if you if that was the only thing that was contained in the bible

51:43

I would agree with you But that's not the only thing that's contained in the bible In this verse right here in this verse right here.

51:51

Is it faith alone? It is not faith alone because we have to take that in context with the rest of the scripture and the rest

51:58

You just said we have two things in verse five. We have two things. We have works

52:04

We have faith when you said there were two things when one of them's removed the other one's by itself You said yes, so you contradict yourself because this means faith alone

52:13

No, because he never said that you're saved by faith alone. He never said that you're saying you're saved by your belief alone

52:20

He never says the word only or oh, where's the word trinity in the bible? Can you show me that again? I mean,

52:25

I'd like to see that because it has to say the word trinity for me to believe it go ahead Well, again, you're the one that's making the claim that he said that it's a only or alone but it's not there

52:35

Let me ask you. Let me ask you. Are you are you saved right now your sins, uh forgiven right now? Well, I repented of my sin and I went to confession so yes, my sins are forgiven

52:45

Right this second you're in a state of perfection as far as the law goes

52:52

Well, I certainly hope so okay you either are I hope the lord puts me there.

52:58

Okay, so you sin regularly, right? Well, I don't sin regularly absolutely not maybe you do but I I strive not to send all the time

53:08

I mean I Oh, yeah, I blow it all the time. Um, but uh, look so Let me ask you regenerated

53:17

I said they grow When they're regenerated and they don't continually Engage in sin, let me ask you a question, uh, but roughly

53:27

Roughly how long has it been since you've sinned just just curious just a day two days a week month year

53:32

What I mean just you know, roughly I can't remember. I don't sin very often.

53:38

So I can't remember maybe you sin every day I don't know, but I don't sin every day. Just give me a rough thing.

53:44

Just just I mean, you know, just a rough time Like I said, I can't remember Okay, i'll sign you a value since you don't even know your own self

53:51

Which you say you don't sin anymore and you go to confession last week So that must mean that you have sinned within I'd say about a week ago

54:00

Yeah, but even though I might have gone to confession a week ago, it doesn't mean I committed the sins recently

54:05

I could have committed The sins 10 years ago or 20 years ago. Okay, so let's just you want to say you didn't haven't sinned for a year

54:14

I don't know. I have no idea. I can't go for a year because you can't remember that far back

54:19

Let's just use a year So let me just say then that what you're telling us is you keep the law of god to love god

54:26

With all your heart all your mind all your soul all your body and your neighbor as yourself You're keeping it on the same level as jesus himself

54:36

No, I never said that yes you Anymore is jesus the standard of righteousness or are you

54:44

Did I say I never sin anymore? Is jesus a standard of righteousness or are you?

54:51

I would say that jesus is the standard and that we should so would you agree to follow? that if jesus

54:58

If jesus is the standard of righteousness, would you agree that it has to be with absolute perfection and purity of heart mind and intention?

55:05

That you've got to keep these commandments to love god and love your neighbor. Would you agree that that is the case? Well, I would agree with the bible where it says that if you sin

55:14

Then you need to repent of your sins. Okay, I didn't ask that You're having difficulty

55:23

You're having difficulty because I know where the weakness is in your position I'm, just uncovering it for everybody to hear you're listening to you represent catholicism

55:31

You're the one telling us that basically you haven't sinned in a long time You didn't seem to object that the idea has it a year

55:37

So that means then that you're keeping the law now the bible says in It says in deuteronomy 27 26 that you're to keep the law perfectly paul quotes that in galatians 3 10

55:47

That the standard of the law is perfection Now jesus summarized all of the law and he quoted it in the new testament as being obligatory that is to love god and love your neighbor and that's in matthew 22 36 and 37 and 39 respectively out of deuteronomy 6 5 and leviticus 1918

56:04

So this love god and love your neighbor is a standard now You said and I agree with you.

56:09

Jesus is a standard. Jesus did it perfectly So you have to be telling me though then that for a year you've kept the law as perfectly as jesus did

56:19

You're amazing. You're wonderful. You're incredible Arrogant deceived and on your way to hell you fool

56:27

For thinking that you don't sin anymore. What a lie, you know, how come

56:33

I know it's a lie Because of the bible says if we say we have no sin We're deceiving ourselves The truth is not in us

56:39

You can actually tell me that you keep the law on the same level as jesus for a year and you don't sin

56:44

And you're perfect in your intentions your thoughts your motives What incredible self -righteous arrogance you're just swimming and drowning in and you don't even know it

56:55

You're lost. Okay. Well you made several insinuations that I haven't claimed.

57:00

I never said that I don't sin anymore I didn't okay. Look dude I said for a year and for a year you've kept the law as good and as well as jesus himself because that's the standard

57:11

I never said that I haven't sinned for a year. You said that I asked you you didn't have any objections for that I'm trying to see if it was one day

57:20

One day that you say you haven't said doesn't matter One day you're keeping the law of god

57:29

As perfectly as jesus for a whole day

57:34

Perfect in your intentions perfect in your holiness before god and the intention of everything

57:41

You are on the same level of jesus because he's the only one who never sinned. That's the standard

57:46

So are you saying that you're keeping the law as well as jesus? Okay, well,

57:52

I I mean you're still putting words in my mouth are you saying Because you're a fool you're a fool that's why because you believe a lie from the devil

58:02

You believe that your salvation depends in part on your ability to keep the law

58:08

And you're you have the arrogance to tell us here that what's happening is That's very The whole day even you don't even sin you keep the law that perfectly on the same level as jesus himself

58:22

Because that's the standard christ You can't even see your incredible self -deception Okay, well, let me ask you this question

58:31

Let me ask you this question. Have you ever gone any time without sinning? I don't know

58:37

Okay, hold on let's let's not distract from the point because you're doing this again you've done this

58:42

I've counted about five times Where you keep changing topics, so i'll ask i'll answer the question.

58:49

I don't mind. Yeah, the thing is is that The issue and represent what matt was trying to ask you very simple questions

58:57

On how long it's been since you sinned he he said a year because he couldn't remember if you wanted to go more than that The time's not the issue the question is

59:06

Are you keeping the law? That's the question perfectly perfectly In your heart your soul your mind your intention and it perfectly means on the same level as jesus himself.

59:18

Otherwise, it's not perfect This is who you claim to be Okay, may

59:25

I answer? Yeah, go ahead Okay at this point in time i'm keeping the law and i'd like to ask you this question matt since you brought up time uh

59:37

Is there any period of time whereby you did keep the law Perfectly Perfectly.

59:45

I don't know. I doubt it So there hasn't been one minute of your life that you kept the law

59:51

Probably probably when god saved you. I mean i'd say at that point man, right when god when god I mean there was gonna be times like that where for split seconds

01:00:00

I don't know So you don't know whether you kept for just one minute

01:00:07

With gone without sinning for just one minute of your lifetime Let me clarify as i've stated.

01:00:14

I do not know if I have kept the law of god perfectly In that every intention and every part of everything that I am according to the standard of jesus himself

01:00:26

That I cannot say that i've done that on the same level as god Okay I i'm not saying you have to do it on the same level as god.

01:00:38

That's what the standard is I've already established. That's the standard and you right rightfully said jesus is a standard

01:00:47

You said that and I totally agree So that is a standard right? Jesus is a standard god in flesh

01:00:53

And and he calls on us to follow in his footsteps. So therefore it's possible for us to follow in his footsteps

01:01:00

So you're admitting that you have not you don't believe you've ever gone at least one minute in your lifetime without sinning

01:01:08

I said, I don't know If I have I don't know what it is.

01:01:14

I don't know when it is the only possible time it might have maybe occurred

01:01:20

When I was in the presence of the lord Jesus christ himself in such power that the only thing I could do is keep my face to the ground and weep out my bitter

01:01:28

Regret of my incredible sinfulness before the presence of incredible holiness Maybe then for that time in the presence of his shekinah glory.

01:01:37

I wasn't sinning But even then I don't know because I know that god is the infinitely holy one and I am not and I am never

01:01:45

Going to say hey jesus. Guess what? I didn't send it for a whole minute. I kept the law on the level of you yourself

01:01:52

Look at me Never gonna happen Then if we go by your logic If we go by your logic matt in that short period of time that you said you didn't sin.

01:02:01

I didn't say I didn't Why don't you listen? Once you listen I never said

01:02:07

I did not I said I don't even know if I even then is what I said. I don't even know because I am the biggest sinner

01:02:16

I know Look right behind me is a couch one day.

01:02:21

I was praying on that couch I bent over on my knees, you know praying but trying to be humble modest or boasting, you know, whatever

01:02:29

And I'm praying for a long time and i'm confessing every single thing I can possibly think of Even my desire to manipulate god if I pray this way, do

01:02:37

I get what I want? You know the stupidity of my own sin And I prayed and I prayed till I couldn't even think of anything else to confess and then

01:02:44

I said lord I thank you that you didn't make me like the mormons and jovah's witnesses That I know you

01:02:49

I actually said that well That's out of luke 18 9 through 14 where the pharisee the self -righteous pharisee said.

01:02:55

Thank you lord You'd make me like that tax gatherer over there Even in the depths of my humility where I thought

01:03:00

I was fine It was sin Now, I don't know about you if you've been in the presence of god

01:03:06

I don't believe you have and i'm not trying to say you have it, but I don't believe you haven't Believe you ever have

01:03:13

Because you talk about your own sinless Perfectionism your own ability to keep the law your desire to be faith and works that in a ceremony that you keep

01:03:22

To honor god in order by which you could then be justified. Does god tell us to keep the law? Yeah, of course.

01:03:28

He does. He says don't sin anymore. Is it his will that we keep the law? Of course it is So are those or is it possible for someone to inherit the kingdom of god if they do not do god's will?

01:03:42

Depends on what you mean by god's will if the will of god is that you believe and trust in jesus christ Then yes, if the will of god is you got to keep all the priesthood

01:03:50

Requirements then no, I see you're not specific enough. You got to be careful when you ask questions like that So you can go against the will of god then?

01:03:58

I mean you just said that it is the will of god that we keep the law that we keep I do his command Saying that we don't have to keep that particularly

01:04:07

We're not justified by the law Romans 3 28 we maintain that the man is justified apart from the works of the law.

01:04:14

That's old covenant. That's old covenant laws And he said

01:04:19

Love god and love your neighbor. He said that in romans 3 28. It's to the church to the romans to the christians

01:04:27

Right because they the judicizers were trying to uh propagandize Wow Look, you know that that's the context of it.

01:04:35

No, it's not speaking He's talking to the romans and look let me tell you he's speaking to the problem because the judicizers are going amongst the romans

01:04:44

No, they were trying This old covenant laws look

01:04:52

When you say that it's just simply the old covenant, that's what you're saying, right? I didn't say just old covenant

01:04:59

Okay, I didn't say that do you know that the old covenant is done away with or abrogated at the death of christ

01:05:06

Yes, death and resurrection romans 3 speaking to the church or is it not speaking to death and resurrection not just death

01:05:14

Death and resurrection not just death Okay Are you talking to somebody else now?

01:05:23

Are you there you had said that uh, it was it was death, but jesus incorporated the new covenant after his resurrection

01:05:32

Okay, maybe you're unfamiliar with this but it's upon the death of the testator that the new covenant is ratified hebrews 8 13 hebrews 9 15 through 16

01:05:41

The resurrection is the proof that the sacrifice of god in flesh was acceptable Yeah, but that doesn't say that the new covenant was established that jesus christ established the new covenant until after his resurrection when he breathed

01:05:54

On the apostles and told them to go out and preach to all nations baptizing them and preaching the faith

01:06:01

That's when the new covenant was instituted by christ He said a new covenant he's made the first obsolete but whatever has become obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear that's hebrews 8 13

01:06:13

Let's go to hebrews 9 15 For this reason he's the mediator of a new covenant So that since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed

01:06:21

Under the first covenant those who have been called may receive the promise of eternal Inheritance for where a covenant is there must be a necessity with the death of the one who's made it

01:06:30

See right because his death was necessary. It was necessary with regards to his new The death of christ

01:06:38

Was enacted with his death at the death of christ a new covenant is then in place. That's what this says right there

01:06:45

Now right when paul was right paul was talking in romans 3 you're saying yes, okay when incorporated when he actually

01:06:54

Got Otherwise we're going to mute you again Okay, you can't keep it because no one learns anything when you keep talking over him

01:07:03

Okay, you got to stop that if if your view is so weak that you can't let matt speak then

01:07:11

You're just Exposing that your argument's weak. So Let him answer

01:07:17

Don't talk over him unless you want us to have the conclusion that you Really know your argument is that weak

01:07:24

So it's really that easy. Okay Sorry, man Romans 3 28

01:07:30

We maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law Romans 4 5 to the one who does not work but believes his faith is reckoned as righteousness so You don't believe the word of god

01:07:49

Okay, may I speak? Go ahead Okay Is galatians 5 19 through 21 speaking to the believers?

01:07:58

Okay well

01:08:06

The address is to the people in galatia and he speaks about the unbelievers and the works of the flesh in that context

01:08:16

Oh, he's speaking about unbelievers. So you're saying the verse Immorality impurity sensuality idolatry sorcery entities.

01:08:25

Certainly these aren't believers practicing these things, right? Would you agree with me? Okay, so why would he warn unbelievers not to do things agree with me that those are not believers

01:08:37

Who are practicing immorality? I don't I don't I I don't agree with you because if you look at what's before you immediately

01:08:44

Are you trying to tell me that the christians there in galatia are practicing immorality impurity sensuality idolatry sorcery enmity strife

01:08:54

Jealousy outbursts of anger disputes dissensions factions envying drunkenness carousing and they're all christians

01:09:00

Okay, but what i'm telling you is that he's speaking to Believers because he's warning them not to do those things now

01:09:09

He wouldn't be warning non -believers because believe non -believers go to hell anyway so he would have to be warning believers because uh, and and it says right there it says, uh,

01:09:21

He's warning you as he has warned before not to do such things because they shall not inherit the kingdom of god therefore

01:09:30

Obviously, he's not speaking to unbelievers. He's speaking to believers unbelievers will go to hell

01:09:35

Anyway, not because of their sins but because of their unbelief Are there any unbelievers in the church of galatia?

01:09:42

Do you think there's a mixture of unbelievers and believers? Well, what

01:09:48

I know is that he's speaking to believers because again, are there a mixture? Do you think there's a mixture? I didn't ask you.

01:09:55

I asked you a question. You don't answer my questions. You answer a different question I asked you do you think there were believers and unbelievers in the church of galatia?

01:10:05

Well, there may have been unbelievers as well, but they wouldn't have been in the church Okay, as being you know what

01:10:12

I'm going to mute you I you know, this is absolutely ridiculous I was answering your question.

01:10:19

No, you just pontificate constantly Look I just asked you do you think they're believers and unbelievers both in the church of galatia?

01:10:27

The answer is yeah That's it. It's either yes, or it's it's not. Yes This is not hard You have to I wanted to Single point all the time

01:10:41

Okay, but it's not always a yes or no matt because the thing is Let's try it

01:10:48

Where do you think that there were probably? Believers and unbelievers both in the church of galatia

01:10:55

No Okay, so they're all only believers in the church of galatia

01:11:02

Recognized by god only believers are in the church in his church You're saying then that the church of galatia only contained believers real christians

01:11:15

Well, god only recognizes believers in his church Okay, see you're so Oh I ask you if there are believers.

01:11:26

No, there's not well, there's no unbelievers or any believers Well, and then somebody's a believer. Hold on a sec.

01:11:32

Hold on a sec And then what you do is you change the meaning of the word church We're talking about the gathering of people here in galatia the church congregation the whole bit.

01:11:41

Do you think it's unbelievers in there? You go. No And then you talk about churches the ones who are really saved, you know

01:11:46

You just play with the words. Oh, look the people who are gathering in this place in galatia

01:11:52

Where the letter of paul was read you think there's any unbelievers mixed in the crowd maybe possibly Okay.

01:11:59

Well, let's say there are unbelievers It still wouldn't make any sense For him to be speaking

01:12:06

I think we should need to move on because I can't get a decent answer from the guy Without having to listen to eight minutes of just pontification about something.

01:12:14

We're not getting anywhere He can't even answer a simple question. Yes, or no. I want to try I want to ask him

01:12:25

I want to ask you one question. We're going to make it really simple. It's going to be a real easy question Yeah For I want to know

01:12:33

What is your name? My name Yeah james

01:12:42

See you can answer a simple question And give a simple answer can't you yeah, but the thing is this is supposed to be a discussion

01:12:49

It's not supposed to be something where you're trying to trap somebody into something

01:12:55

I know it shouldn't be You were trying to trap matt. You weren't letting him speak. You kept talking over him you

01:13:03

Answering talking over. Excuse me. You're don't talk over me unless you're Want everyone to realize your arguments really are that weak are your arguments so weak that you cannot allow someone else to finish a sentence?

01:13:15

Are they he was talking over me many times even after he asked me a question and I attempted to answer Okay, matt was asking a question and he would take a breath and you jumped in So which wouldn't happen if there was the delay on your ipad?

01:13:30

I don't think that you you knew right when he would take a breath so here's the thing

01:13:35

I mean unless I mean that could maybe be a lie just saying that would be a sin.

01:13:41

I don't know if you realize that so The thing is is that What we end up seeing is matt would ask you something

01:13:50

Okay, you would answer different things and That this matt's trying to gather information to help you

01:13:58

To answer the questions, but this is what people have to do now If you would like what matt could do is just assume what you believe because you were doing that with matt

01:14:07

He corrected you several times Telling you what he actually believed And you kept going on with what you want to claim he believed

01:14:16

All right that happened several times in the discussion Along with what catholic catholicism believes

01:14:24

No, I was saying catholicism Okay, can we get back asking you what you believe and you wouldn't answer and that's the thing

01:14:33

Is he a troll? Maybe he's a troll. I answered numerous times so All right, so here's here's the thing so i'm going to mute him matt, but a couple things let's discuss

01:14:44

We'll move on. Yeah, let's we'll move on because but there were some cool things you did with the discussion with him um, and and this will be helpful for folks to to see um

01:14:55

One of the things that happened early on you he tried to argue that you believe in his view Of baptism because there was agreement in one area

01:15:04

And then he he tried to argue that you believe that baptism saves So explain to folks.

01:15:11

I mean you you were quick to cut that off. He did it a couple times What's what is the importance of?

01:15:17

Like why do people do something like that? Why do they try to? Make it seem like you're agreeing and then change it to say you believe something you don't

01:15:26

Because they have to be a little bit. Um, this is genuine To That's all that's all

01:15:34

And that would go as well for this why he would speak over Yeah, it's a it's a tactic he was trying to use and um

01:15:41

Another tactic is to not really answer questions that are worth just a yes or no answer It's either the case that we're saved by water baptism

01:15:47

Or it's not the case the simple logic is that a statement either true or false is called the law of excluded middle

01:15:52

When someone repeatedly has to pontificate and explain An end at infinitum every single detail of every single thing, you know, it gets old after a while.

01:16:01

Um, And so all he's doing it's it's as though he's a troll And in that you can't get a straight answer out of the guy

01:16:08

And so after a while, you just got to move on. I don't mind having discussions with people who disagree But as is obviously the case he would

01:16:16

I'd ask a question And did you believe this or you don't believe it and he'd go on and on and on you ask another question goes on and on And on another question on and on and on it just gets to the point where?

01:16:25

It's ridiculous. So I tried to get to the point where discussing whether he sins or not How long he won't even tell me that's how long

01:16:32

I got to work with him on that and then showing that his arrogance and foolishness are just profoundly blinding him because He actually believes he can keep the law of god on the same level as jesus

01:16:41

And then when he says I didn't he didn't say that of course he did he didn't use those words But that's what he's saying because that's what it means not to sin

01:16:48

It's on the level of god not the level of man because he admitted jesus is a standard Well, then he's saying that he's doing the things on a level of jesus himself keeping the law and of course that is foolishness and so, you know, it just is we have the

01:17:01

The evidence here that someone like this is an unregenerate person And the reason I would say that is because of galatians 5

01:17:07

And it says there in galatians 5 which is really important behold. I paul say to you that you've received circumcision Circumcision is a ceremony as is baptism

01:17:16

If you receive circumcision that he's under obligation to keep the whole law now circumcision is the old testament covenant sign

01:17:22

We know that for sure But what he's doing here is talking about the necessity Of not keeping the law of the old testament in any way shape or form in order to be saved

01:17:31

He says you've been severed from christ. You are seeking to be justified by law and notice what he says By doing the one thing he said you're trying to be justified by law now

01:17:40

Believe it or not the issue of the baptism that jesus underwent In matthew chapter 3 when he was baptized

01:17:48

Most probably is a reflection out of number chapter 8 verse 7 when jesus entered into the priesthood.

01:17:54

He had to be Uh sprinkled with water That is the baptism that is spoken of such sprinkling is also mentioned and you can get the baptism

01:18:01

Out of hebrews 9 10 and some other issues and some other areas in that context So what he's actually doing is saying that baptism the what either sprinkling which

01:18:10

I don't have a problem with because my covenantalism or immersion Either way the baptism of water is a necessity for salvation and that you can't be a true christian unless you're dunked in water

01:18:19

There's other questions. I like to ask him Which we problem because you see the real fact is that um, if a man and i've seen this

01:18:27

I used to work at a hospital if a man for example is on his um, deathbed

01:18:33

And he's got tubes in basically every orifice and you can tell he's dying

01:18:39

Um, I used to work at a hospital and i've seen things and so uh if a minister comes in And gives him the gospel the death burial and resurrection of jesus christ and I asked incidentally

01:18:52

I asked the chaplain of the hospital I used to work at Who went to our church?

01:18:58

I asked him specifically does this happen? He said yes very quickly. Yes, it does Where someone on their deathbed the last minute two minutes of their life?

01:19:09

He will give them the gospel do you receive christ they can't even speak they got stuff down their throats and they just nod

01:19:15

You receive christ you trust in christ for your salvation. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, and they do this and then they're gone

01:19:23

Now this man this guy anonymous guy would have to say that such a person is going to hell Because he wasn't didn't have water applied to him

01:19:32

Which would mean that we're not justified by faith as romans 4 5 tells us the one who does not work But believes his faith is reckoned as righteousness

01:19:39

So what this guy has to do is say it's the old covenant that he's talking about No, because it's in the present tense the man who works his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but what is due romans 4 4

01:19:49

He's talking about the present tense what's going on and to the one who does not work present tense And so paul is quickly talking and clearly talking about that Which is the present tense in order for this guy to try and get out of this issue in order to maintain his works

01:20:00

Righteousness and self -righteousness in the process. He has to say that his old covenant doesn't apply today But it's in the context of present tense.

01:20:08

And yes, it is in what's going on. It's about the people justified before god Yes, abraham was justified by faith and he says and we are justified by faith

01:20:18

What paul is doing in galatians 4 1 through 5 is taking the past tense of abraham? And equating it to the present tense of the christian today

01:20:25

Showing that the justification in both the old covenant and the new covenant are identical By faith and that's what it is

01:20:32

It's not faith in a ceremony and so the foolishness and the apostasy of the cults and roman catholicism that teaches you must keep uh a ceremony which is a

01:20:43

Representation of one aspect of the law in order to be saved along with their faith Then preach a false gospel and they're lost this guy can't see that refuses to see it and he's not capable of saying it because first corinthians 2 14 says

01:20:55

The natural man cannot see the things of god for the foolishness to him These are spiritually discerned and this is the condition that he's in he's under sin

01:21:02

He's not died with christ roman 6 6 roman 6 8 He's still under the slavery of sin roman 6 14 through 20 because he's not trusted in christ alone but christ and a ceremony by which he's then justified and If we were had time

01:21:16

I would have a conversation with him, but it's not worth the effort to continue I would talk about the necessity of the sacraments the infusion of grace the maintenance of his salvation

01:21:25

By the infused grace through the sacraments that he has to have in order to keep himself right with god

01:21:30

That's what catholicism teaches And so what we have here is a false doctrine an antichrist doctrine as someone who is a servant of the evil one

01:21:39

Because he's espousing a false gospel And you know one of the things that will be helpful for folks met there.

01:21:45

I mean he he used a lot of logical fallacies And yes, he did You know, we should point out some of them there's one

01:21:53

I picked up on that I do want you to address and you could discuss the other fallacies that you picked up on but He kept doing a fallacy of equivocation with you where he wanted things one way

01:22:03

And you caught him a couple times where he'd use it one way and then change it and No, so first off with that one, uh, the explain that fallacy

01:22:13

Explain how he did it and go into any of the other fallacies that you saw him use Well, I can't remember the exact example, but I called him out on it when he did it

01:22:22

I said you just changed the meaning of the word or whatever it was, but that's what equivocation is. Um, When a word changes meaning in its usage and you haven't clarified the depth the change of definition so Uh a bird

01:22:36

I see I saw a bird fly into that bush Um, that's why president bush is a bird brain

01:22:42

What the word bush then changes meaning from a plant to a person? And that's that's uh an illustration of what the fallacy of equivocation is and he did that I forgot what the context was church

01:22:53

He did it. Thank you very much the word church. He did that in word church. He I pointed out what he did there

01:23:00

And of course, he's made improper inferences as well Uh misrepresented what I said, uh failed to understand my position um

01:23:09

It doesn't even understand the basics of yes and no statements Uh, you know, not everything is yes and no and I understand that but a statement is either true or it's not the case

01:23:18

It is true And so we are either for example baptism is either a ceremony or it's not the case that it's a ceremony

01:23:26

It can't be both a ceremony and not a ceremony in the same sense in the same way If it's a ceremony, which it is because every the definitions is something that occurs and uh

01:23:35

I've talked about this before in another article on karm A ceremony is where one person does something usually in this context to another person

01:23:44

Circumcision is a ceremony. We do something like that baptism is a ceremony you perform an action upon somebody else

01:23:49

That's what a ceremony is. So he's teaching justification by faith and a ceremony and so He's failing to understand the issue of justification by faith alone because if it's faith alone, no ceremony is necessary But then what they'll do in order to maintain their heresy is to say that a ceremony is something commanded by god

01:24:07

Therefore, it's not a ceremony So when god commands it it's no longer ceremony, so he says don't lie don't cheat don't steal so those aren't ceremonies

01:24:15

But those are things you're obligated to keep the law in order to be saved, right? Right, and you're still under the law now. Here's the thing When you're under the law, it's because you haven't died with christ

01:24:24

Now we've died with christ those who are represented by him on the cross. We've died with christ romans 6 8 were crucified with him romans 6 6 and romans 3 1 through 5

01:24:33

Talks about those who died with christ now The one who has died with christ is free from the law of romans 7 4

01:24:39

If we're free from the law, we're no longer obligated to keep that law But what he's saying is that the new testament law is circumcision

01:24:46

Excuse me Baptism, you've got to be baptized in order to be saved and then we get to the issue back You'd like to we could ask him sometime maybe another week.

01:24:53

Maybe say hey the man who's on his deathbed who confesses christ By faith trusts in jesus and dies before he can even be sprinkled with water

01:25:03

The man's walking to the sink to get water. He comes back. The guy's dead Does he go to hell or does he go to heaven? He would have to say he goes to hell

01:25:10

If he says no, he had a baptism of what's called baptism of desire Well, then you're saying he didn't get baptized

01:25:17

Water baptism is either necessary for salvation or it's not Necessary for salvation if they say it's a baptism of desire if he wanted it then baptism by water is not necessary.

01:25:28

Otherwise He'd be lost or saved. I mean You can't have both and what they do is they equivocate they

01:25:35

Hopscotch they jump in and out and they change meanings. They change arguments. They change the flow of the logic

01:25:41

And it's difficult to deal with them particularly this guy when he tries to misrepresent so much of theology

01:25:46

And he said that for example i'm remembering on the issue of the new covenant He said it was the death and the resurrection, but that's not what the verse has said

01:25:54

It clearly showed that it was the death. That's the issue. The resurrection is the proof that the That the sacrifice

01:26:03

It's a death of crisis and you know, he was corrected there and ignored the correction and can't continue to go on So when we get into people like that after a half hour or longer,

01:26:12

I just run out of steam Just going in circles with someone who you can't have a decent conversation with and has to argue every single point all the time

01:26:21

So we move along yeah, and and one of the things that he was doing was

01:26:28

He kept Wanting to Use certain ways words exact words with you

01:26:35

Right, and I don't think he picked up what you were saying and it would be good for people to realize you kept bringing up the trinity

01:26:42

He wanted a specific wording In the scriptures and you you ended up going to another thing

01:26:49

So explain to folks why you brought up the trinity there so that they can learn what you were doing What the catholics do is make a huge mistake.

01:26:56

They have a double standard in things. They'll say Uh, show me the words faith alone in scripture because what you're teaching has to be it has to be these words

01:27:02

Otherwise, I won't believe it Well, then that principle can be applied to other things show me in the bible

01:27:07

Where says the trinity is one god and three distinct simultaneous persons It has to be those words or I won't believe it and they would of course say well

01:27:13

That doesn't make any sense to say that why because you don't do it that way When I showed him in romans 4 or 5 to the one who does not work

01:27:21

But believes his faith is reckoned as righteousness that is faith alone and he even admitted That when we have two things works and faith, those are the only two things that were in the text he admitted that And then you take away one.

01:27:33

The other one's left by itself. He said yes, that's faith alone So he admitted it And then denied his admission.

01:27:39

I was just trying to show in at least two different ways his inconsistency. He doesn't um,

01:27:45

Really apply fairness Uh, you know, they want to say faith alone and then he goes to james 2

01:27:51

He wants to go to james 2 I could easily answer that But uh, he wants to go to james 2 see not by faith alone and he rips it out of context

01:27:57

Not understanding really what's going on there And say it has to be in those words does it have to be in those words for you to believe everything?

01:28:03

Of course not, but he it does when it comes to this one issue And so they're selective and what they require that precision with but they're inconsistent

01:28:12

Because they believe other things with no such precision as necessary, but it's vitally important For example, the hypostatic union in two natures of christ never does it say jesus has two natures

01:28:21

You don't find any verse that says jesus is god. You don't find anything like that But they believe these things where the exact words they're not there

01:28:27

And so what they'll say is well, that's okay You don't need the exact words there, but I need them right here with these two words faith alone.

01:28:34

Why the inconsistency? Because they have an agenda The agenda dominates the conversation not the scriptures and that's a problem with them

01:28:43

And you know, that's a thing we see with muslims as well. The muslims will do the very same thing They'll they'll say where does it say?

01:28:50

Where does jesus say? Specifically these exact words. I am god worship me, right?

01:28:57

There's no where it says those exact words, but jesus does call himself god One one last thing on the on that discussion

01:29:05

Um that I thought was brilliant that you did he took it to galatians And you you said well, this can't be speaking of christians because do christians do this list of sins?

01:29:16

um I think that I think I could be mistaken, but We can't see because his video he didn't turn on but I think that you know

01:29:23

His hair was just cut really short when that went right over his head so What we because you were doing something that was brilliant and I don't know that everyone might have picked up on that Why were you arguing the way you argued at that galatians passage saying that can't be speaking of christians?

01:29:41

Well, he you know He wants to say that it's the christians that are being spoken of because the christians have to maintain their salvation by their goodness

01:29:47

That's what he's ultimately getting at because that's what roman catholicism teaches a blasphemous lie from satan

01:29:53

And so what he'll do is he'll go to galatians 5 19 through 21 and say these are the deeds of the flesh And okay, so i'm asking is that what the christians are doing sorcery and immorality and fornication is what they're doing

01:30:04

He said he has to say yes. Well, wait a minute. Could it be then that um, they're unbelievers in the church of galatia?

01:30:11

No, he said no at first. So wait a minute and that's when he was equivocating on the word church. Um, I said give me a break, you know, it's just ridiculous

01:30:19

He's addressing the christians about unbelievers in that particular thing christians don't abide in that stuff They don't do that kind of thing.

01:30:25

They may slip up and fall but it's not an issue of abiding It's not an issue of that kind of stuff. So he's just um stretching

01:30:33

Uh, and he's obviously not trusted in jesus christ alone for his salvation That's what

01:30:38

I was ultimately trying to get him to but uh, he doesn't want jesus alone He wants jesus and And that's the problem because on the day of judgment

01:30:49

It won't be jesus alone That he's hiding behind it'll be jesus and his works jesus and his ability to keep the law jesus and his water baptism and um

01:31:01

Since it means then That he's not trusting in christ alone by faith alone that he's trusting in his own ability and that will damn him

01:31:10

Okay, so You know since he's still here muted Let's just move on because we're not going to get anywhere

01:31:17

To share the gospel so that folks who who here would know what the gospel message is The gospel is simply that we cannot keep the law in any way shape or form by any obligation or any way period

01:31:29

Nobody's good enough in heart Or intention or in hand the heart in the hand the heart is everything that you are inside internally

01:31:35

The heart is desperately wicked deceitful. No man can trust it. Jeremiah 17 9 And god says you must love the lord your god without your heart soul mind body

01:31:42

And this is the obligation that we're happy to have the reason that god gives us that obligation is not because we are the standard

01:31:48

But because god is a standard the obligation is perfection. First peter 1 16 be holy for I am holy

01:31:54

That's the standard god himself. The standard is Absolute perfection. Deuteronomy 27 26 quoted by paul in galatians 3 10 talks about this.

01:32:03

No one could keep the law perfectly Nobody can do it perfectly And what he says he doesn't say

01:32:09

I don't keep it perfectly all the time Well that he admits he's a sinner But he still is saying that he's maintaining his position before god by his ability to keep the law

01:32:16

And that in his incredible arrogance, he doesn't say he's sinned and when I said for a whole year, he didn't object to that He didn't object to that if someone said to me matt, could you not sin for five minutes?

01:32:28

I go, uh, don't don't even don't even say five minutes five seconds Maybe I don't even know if I could do for five seconds

01:32:35

Because the bible says you're to love the lord your god with all your heart all your soul all your mind

01:32:41

All your strength am I doing that every single second? Because some people will say well if you don't you're not doing it on purpose you can do it by by not doing anything.

01:32:51

No It All the time only christ was able to do that And we are not able to do this.

01:32:58

This is why the gospel the euangelia is necessary Because it's the good news is that jesus kept the law perfectly

01:33:05

Jesus is the one who did everything and we can trust in what jesus did having therefore been justified by faith romans 5 1 says in galatians 2 16 galatians 2 21

01:33:16

That we just trust in christ and not in any works of the law that's in galatians And it's just you know folks you can't get to heaven by your faith and Anything you do any ceremony?

01:33:30

any sincerity any sacrament any church Any bible reading any goodness?

01:33:38

any repentance None of it is perfect. The standard is perfection

01:33:45

And your sincerity is sin stained And it's not acceptable enough to god because of sincerity and your efforts were good enough to get to god

01:33:55

Then righteousness would not come through the law galatians 2 21 christ would have died needlessly, but his death

01:34:03

Was a cleansing of our sins leviticus 17 11 A necessity for us so that we can be justified by faith apart from the works of the law

01:34:13

But this man doesn't want to believe that he wants to say that's all old covenant So that he can say there's a new covenant law.

01:34:19

He's got to keep And the logical thing we have to ask at this point is is he doing it? If he says no, well, then the standard is all perfection.

01:34:27

Galatians 3 10 says so that he's so damned by his own system Folks, you got to understand something salvation is by faith alone in christ alone.

01:34:35

It's not by faith and Nobody's good enough. Nobody's able enough Thousands upon thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of catholics are leaving and becoming true christians realizing that the apostasy the darkness the superstition the mariolatry the level of self -righteous

01:34:58

Works righteousness and going to the church in order to have a priest give you

01:35:05

Through his authority through the sacraments grace that's infused in you to keep you right with god

01:35:11

The church holds the certificate of your salvation in its hands and meets out to the catholic

01:35:19

Upon the sacramental participation that grace necessary for the maintenance of their position with god

01:35:26

And this is blasphemy It's blasphemy The roman catholic church will pay dearly for the millions upon millions

01:35:36

It is sent to hell with this antichrist doctrine because it is not trusted in christ alone

01:35:42

An example of this is all last roman catholics i'll say Is jesus god? Yes Can you pray to him?

01:35:49

Yes, if you pray and you ask jesus to forgive you of all of your sins Will all of your sins be forgiven? They don't want to answer half the time

01:35:57

Because they know where i'm going. Well, then can you do that? And if you do and all your sins are forgiven Do you need mary?

01:36:04

Do you need your priesthood? Do you need your sacraments or is jesus enough and this is where they fall apart?

01:36:10

Because they don't believe jesus is enough They believe in their sacraments and their priesthood and their church authority the church which holds their salvation in its hand

01:36:19

They believe not just in christ. They believe in christ and jesus and something by faith and In this case, they're under that antichrist religion the roman catholic church

01:36:34

That teaches a false gospel And all who die believing official roman catholic theology will be lost

01:36:40

We need to preach the true gospel That you're justified before god made right By faith and trust in what christ did who kept the law perfectly first peter 2 22 who bore our sins in his body in the cross first peter 2 24

01:36:54

And were justified by faith apart from the works of the law of romans 3 28 romans 4 5 romans 5 1 galatians 2 16 galatians 2 21 that is all we have is jesus

01:37:08

Not jesus in a ceremony Baptism not jesus in a ceremony the mass not jesus in a ceremony the rosary not jesus in anything

01:37:18

Because everything that we do is touched by sin And for anyone who would think that somehow we're capable in the sin stained

01:37:27

Sincerity of our own hearts to please the infinitely holy god is simply deceived

01:37:34

The closer you get to the bright light The more you see the flaws within yourself the closer you become to christ the more you recognize your own sin

01:37:45

And those who are close to him in the recordings of the bible When they're in the presence of god, they say be gone from me for i'm unholy a man of unclean lips

01:37:55

In the presence of the true living god No one boasts that they're able to not sin for a period of time if anything they confess.

01:38:03

They're just not worthy This man undoubtedly in the presence of jesus would say

01:38:09

I'm worthy Because I did not sin for a long period of time And that kind of stuff is foolishness self -deception he needs to repent needs to come to christ yeah, and it was good the way you said people who believe in roman catholic doctrine because You're not saying all roman catholics are not saved because it could be some who legitimately believe the gospel and just don't know to come out of the church, but right and i'm specifying that for the people who are going to try to Make a false accusation

01:38:38

Because you're saying those who believe in roman? I always say if you believe official roman catholic theology, you can't be a true christian

01:38:46

That's not to say there aren't catholics who are true christians, but they are true christians in spite of roman catholic theology.

01:38:53

It can happen All right, so here's a question I came in in the apologetics live

01:38:59

Uh facebook group, which is a facebook group you and I have for this show Uh, daniel asked this, uh, first off.

01:39:05

He said he's very excited about the show He said would y 'all please address hyper calvinism?

01:39:12

What does uh, what's the difference between the two? So what's the difference between calvinism and hyper calvinism the word hyper?

01:39:20

I Guess you want me to be more specific hyper calvinism is considered a heresy within the calvinist camp

01:39:28

Hyper calvinists affirm the five points as I do But uh hyper calvinists will basically say you don't even need to evangelize

01:39:36

It doesn't really matter what you do and say because it's all predestined anyway, so sit down and do nothing Basically, that's what it is.

01:39:42

And that's a heresy. It's rejected by biblical calvinists and uh

01:39:47

So stay away from the hyper calvinism Unfortunately, what happens is that sometimes people will misrepresent calvinism by saying hyper calvinists are true calvinists in that sense

01:39:57

No, that's not the case Now I like to say the hyper calvinist was paul a calvinist and they know what

01:40:02

I mean You know, did he you know, he wasn't a calvinist, but you know, he affirmed the five points obviously paul.

01:40:07

Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I did was paul very evangelical. Yes. Well, why aren't you then? And then that's when the conversation falls apart because They don't realize and you're a calvinist

01:40:19

I mean, you're a five -pointer. I'm a five -pointer you and I have gone out in new york preaching the gospel

01:40:24

You know begging people to believe and we do that because we know that god uses foolish people like you and me

01:40:34

To preach that gospel message and he brings people through um

01:40:39

Through that for the preaching of the word into a place of salvation using flawed vessels, that's for sure

01:40:48

Yeah, especially with you. Oh, sorry. Uh, you got that right? I'm not gonna do that one, especially with me.

01:40:54

That's for sure So another one i'm trying to look at some of the questions and actually you know

01:40:59

It's actually before I get that Instead of going to question their son. I did want to I have I have something right here called the influence written by some guy named

01:41:08

Matthew jay, uh, john slick, huh? but That book's been out for a while.

01:41:13

Uh, there's some new books that hit the market on amazon, aren't there? Yep, let's talk about them

01:41:20

There's new books out check it out So we got you got two new books that deal with the topic of atheism, right?

01:41:27

So first is an uh, well, it's a short novel, right? I forgot what they're called what you call them, but novella novella the novella

01:41:37

Called atheistica. So tell what's atheistica about? It's about an island that forms in the pacific and a very rich atheist buys it and creates a an atheist community and uh things

01:41:51

Don't work out exactly as they'd hoped. Let's just say You mean like the way atheism always doesn't work out the way they don't

01:41:59

Yeah, you know it can't work out logically But you see the thing is when I told an atheist about a year ago

01:42:05

I was working on this and here and there I just decided to finish it the past few months but um He said oh you're going to make the atheist look stupid and I did not uh the main character the contrarian

01:42:19

Uh is a good man on a human level, you know, he's a good man. He loves his wife.

01:42:24

He's he's Humble he makes mistakes like anybody else. I don't bring those up as a big thing. He's protective of his wife and uh

01:42:32

Concerned for her safety, you know, I don't present him as an as an idiot at all And uh the main atheist, uh, brian slarone

01:42:40

That's the one who buys the island and all this stuff and there's also he's not an idiot either and um, there's an atheist woman who is uh named shell

01:42:50

Ali who's kind of an mc? uh kind of a director at an organization and through A series of discussions that are televised on the island in order to solve problems and she's very intelligent very capable and um

01:43:05

You know, and then I do mention that there are bad people on the island some bad stuff happens What does that mean because her atheist bad stuff happens?

01:43:12

Hey, there's best of everywhere. And so I try to present. Uh, You know them as as normal people

01:43:18

And I think I did a good job at it and I just tried to show that that philosophically there's some issues that are raised

01:43:25

And I accelerated that problem because it's novella, you know not going to go on for 1800 pages that's all and then you have uh

01:43:35

Atheism and or is it i'm familiar with the title now atheism and apologetics and atheism actually, that's okay

01:43:42

And it's a series i'll be doing apologetics and roman catholicism apologetics and mormonism apologetics and jehovah's witnesses apologetics and islam apologetics and christian theology

01:43:52

So it's a series apologetics and and I did Um, I had that sitting there. Um, and I went oh, that's right.

01:43:58

I forgot about that and I had it like 80 done So I decided to finish it. So after I released, uh atheistica uh,

01:44:05

I I uh Unearthed this one and did that one. So now i'm literally working on apologetics and christian theology

01:44:12

But i'm trying to finish up my section on annihilationism Which when i'm done will be over 130 articles that i'll be releasing in the next week

01:44:20

That means you wrote nine more articles since this morning Because I think this morning you told me it was 121

01:44:27

I said ready Oh, okay ready. I've got over 170

01:44:33

Oh, really? Yeah, but i'm not going to release all of them because some of them are repetitious And I don't need to be you know, there's variations word studies that aren't ready.

01:44:43

I just need to go through them once Okay Now it's ready. So I have a little system on my little what

01:44:50

I do. I have the word ready But ready with a comma means it's been finally checked

01:44:56

And ready without a comma means it's not finally checked. It's ready, but it's not it's just mostly ready

01:45:02

And so, uh, that's what I have. And so when I say ready, I mean with a comma and uh, we now have 121 and it'll be more

01:45:14

I could write another 50 articles because it's really quite a topic and uh, i've done

01:45:20

Oh, man, have I done some studies? Oh, sheesh I've discovered stuff

01:45:26

Annihilationism, it's just not true It's not true. Well, and they're trying to come out when you know recent on my recent podcast.

01:45:34

I interviewed, uh, George alvarado who you know Right. Yeah, and so he did the debate with with someone who uh, chris date who is a you know

01:45:42

They don't say they believe it's not annihilationism. They play with the words, right? They equivocate on the the words and so it's it's the uh,

01:45:50

You know, um contain. No, what is it? They i'm trying to remember how they call themselves conditionalists so um but That's something that you're going to release those articles and it'll be fun to see how how they're going to respond

01:46:05

I know you've sent a couple my way and and I think that uh, I think that should for honest people silence the issue it will some but uh i'm just And I want to make this clear because anonymous said that the real reason that he was muted because I couldn't answer him

01:46:24

That's not it. I just wrote in the reason is not that the real reasons that I said you were rude unfocused blabbed constantly

01:46:32

Etc. It just got old that is the reason so don't misrepresent Yeah That's the reason and I muted him and a reason

01:46:39

I gave him was because he was rude and refusing to answer simple questions Yeah with simple answers. He just goes on and on and on and on and on.

01:46:46

Okay, so yeah the conditionalism stuff um, and I can start talking about some of the arguments here if you want, but um

01:46:52

There's a problem of continuity and there's a heresy that um, chris date is is uh teaching and uh when he was here in my office and he said what he said

01:47:03

I My jaw just dropped Like what and decided then not to tackle the issue

01:47:08

I wanted to find out stuff because he and I were supposed to have a debate chris states and have a defender of of uh, annihilationism conditionalism and um

01:47:18

So we came to an agreement on a debate topic almost we couldn't quite get to it And I have found and this is nothing against chris.

01:47:25

I I like chris But i've found this is my opinion lovingly if someone tells him this I find him difficult to work with in that I get the impression.

01:47:34

I don't think he's doing this on purpose But I get the impression that the definitions he uses

01:47:41

He's not even sure of half the time because the way he uses them and I go with it It says no that's not what i'm saying. I'm like, wait a minute.

01:47:46

You said that about this No, that's not what i'm saying after a while I just gave up because I couldn't understand exactly what he was saying

01:47:53

At one point I had something like 31 questions for him to try and understand on something

01:47:59

And he wouldn't even answer those i'm like, okay, this is ridiculous And so what we're going to try and debate was does the the atonement of christ necessitate?

01:48:07

annihilationism and I thought his position was that it does And he goes no,

01:48:13

I don't want to argue that that way. Well, what do you mean? What way? uh, and then then something about it's not annihilationism, but I forgot it was had to do with I forget what it was trying to not misrepresent him at all.

01:48:27

But uh, Phrase of something like a total what I don't know. I can't remember and I said well doesn't that mean annihilationism?

01:48:34

Well, not exactly what so it just got to the point where I couldn't even uh, get him to an agree to agree

01:48:42

And then people kept saying you're misrepresenting him in all sincerity I don't understand what his argument is.

01:48:49

I asked his questions and he won't answer him So what am I supposed to do? And so it all fell through You know chris date is teaching a heresy on the person

01:48:57

That's actually I disagree with you on this because I actually do think it's purposeful And that's that's one of the things that george and I talked about we expose the tactics that he uses in debate

01:49:06

He's a very good debater, uh, but it's 80 miles an hour, you know at 300 verses in a minute.

01:49:12

Yeah, but he just Explain them and so it makes it sound like You know and he does the same thing that that first that the catholic was doing with you

01:49:21

He'll he'll cite like john macarthur and john piper and al just cite people

01:49:26

And calvin and may and then as if they're in agreement with his position It's a great debate tactic but the next the thing that ended up happening is we were exposing that he does these things

01:49:37

I think on purpose and Because of that ambiguity he can always go. Oh, you're misrepresenting me. You're misrepresenting me

01:49:44

Yeah, it's a problem and I told him I said if we don't get this cleared up now if we when we have a debate I'm just going to be saying now

01:49:49

What do you mean by this and all it's going to end up being is me saying I don't understand your position What is it because I can't debate what

01:49:56

I don't understand the positions of someone is and it just just became a problem So it's hard to debate but you want the heresy is i'll tell you what the heresy is

01:50:05

He's a physicalist an anthropological physicalist, which means that the physical the soul ceases to exist

01:50:11

He holds to please ask you 12 7 that the spirit of a human being goes back to be with god

01:50:17

That means that the spirit of christ the human spirit of christ had to go back to be with god That violates the hypostatic union

01:50:24

Period And this is a serious problem and I read an article by him and I may or may not resurrect it

01:50:30

And refute some of the stuff that was said in an article that he wrote where he tried to address this issue and I have to read it for the third or fourth time because when he addressed this issue that particular issue

01:50:41

I just raised he said it was so confusing to me And it just could be me because I do have a little bit of Autistic issues.

01:50:48

So sometimes I can't quite follow a certain logical system of of wording because there's double negatives and this and that Like what is it, you know?

01:50:56

So it's possible that I didn't quite understand what he was actually saying, but I thought that it wasn't even answered

01:51:01

Uh, not not even nearly sufficiently. So I had a real problem with that But to say that jesus human nature ceased to exist is heresy

01:51:10

To say that it separated from the personhood of christ and went back to be the father is heresy because the

01:51:16

True doctrine is the hypothetic union and the one person or two simultaneous Eternal natures now with the binding and the unity and the hypothetic union of the person

01:51:26

Of the human and the divine natures and you can't have that There was a cessation of that in any way shape or form now if i'm misrepresenting him.

01:51:36

I apologize I never want to misrepresent anybody and if that's the case if he said no, that's not my position great.

01:51:42

Okay I'm, sorry, you know retract all that but that's what I understand. That's what he told me That's what I understand it to be unless his position has changed or unless the words he's using don't mean what

01:51:51

I think they mean And that's an issue Okay. All right. So this is the most important book though The most important book.

01:52:00

Oh the calvinism notes No Pfft Come on you're not you're not going to try to tell me that you're

01:52:09

Your book on how to win and woo women by being an obnoxious jerk is the most important book

01:52:15

That's a very important book because a lot of men do not know how to get women

01:52:20

And if you read that book guaranteed if you follow all the instructions Within two years that is an actual title of an amazon book that you wrote

01:52:29

I was actually discussing it with someone I was I was discussing it with someone recently because You know, there was there's a young man who really liked a girl.

01:52:39

She didn't like him as much And I said here here's what matt slick would say you're doing wrong

01:52:46

Unfortunately, I think he took me serious and he's gonna try well, there's actually there's a review on it and um a friend of mine from houston actually told me that he was uh,

01:52:57

He was uh on a phone with one of his potential dates and he read some of the book to her and uh

01:53:05

He said he didn't have a date I'm laughing He said that what she said

01:53:12

She when he read something I read I wrote and it's all stupid. It's all fun humor. And uh, she said that guy's an idiot

01:53:21

I couldn't stop laughing He goes I don't have a date. She quit Okay, well when you tried to give my daughter, uh some of this advice

01:53:29

I freaked out because I thought But she is marrying the gentleman who was at the other end of the table and not listening.

01:53:35

So I gave her really good advice I did well, she is she If if it was that at least she is getting married.

01:53:44

So, uh, you know For probably because he didn't read the book but uh

01:53:51

He didn't apply the principles probably a smart thing But you know when we mentioned atheistica there are a bunch of people in in uh in chat that were we're saying that they really

01:53:58

Have been enjoying it. Someone said they've been two days Well, then why aren't they writing reviews? I keep asking people write a review

01:54:05

Nobody writes reviews. And so seriously when I say hey write reviews and people said are reading it and they're not no reviews

01:54:12

It tells me nobody's really reading it. Yes It's important To write a review for this reason, you know

01:54:19

I know like with podcasts people say oh write a review. It helps me get better rated in itunes No, it doesn't.

01:54:25

Um, not unless you get like tons of them at one time But what it does do is help in this case the author or the podcast or whoever know that you actually are listening

01:54:33

Reading and that you care That's really The only way we we would know and so it's it's good to write those reviews.

01:54:42

Um, So matt we're going to turn this Show into a podcast Uh, it'll be up next week.

01:54:49

We're still trying to work out the back end on that folks can can do a search for apologetics live

01:54:56

And find this in podcast form so they could just have it download every week and so if you're interested in Audio Sorry because the last one was sorry

01:55:19

I know I messed you up. Look at this Great fun, but more fun if this would be an audio book

01:55:26

We're men. We love others not with words But with being obnoxious jerks men do this to each other and men do it to their women poor gals

01:55:34

Every woman should read this so they can understand those Those coarse painful over -the -top actions by their men is actually an expression of their love.

01:55:42

Heaven help us. I mean, that's pretty funny Okay, now get this one second one I sent a small excerpt from the book to a girl.

01:55:49

I was interested in I no longer have a date friday Thanks reverend slick. Just kidding.

01:55:54

This was her response to the chapter girl logic. She writes You would love that book. That's a book made for every male.

01:56:00

Ha ha Hating on women we carry y 'all's children. Y 'all shouldn't hate on our craziness laugh.

01:56:06

Laugh out loud It's so true that the female mind is quite complex irrational then this one

01:56:12

I just read the sample and was disgusted in my opinion. This is a very sexist book women are not toys

01:56:23

Man Wow, those are their humor

01:56:30

Okay, sorry. Everyone thinks your laugh is is infectious. So It was so stupid.

01:56:35

It was awesome But my favorite chapter in the book is chapter nine How to be interesting

01:56:42

It's blank The question is

01:56:48

Yeah, people don't get that they think it's serious. Oh, he's serious. Oh, he's a sexist

01:56:53

Did you know that I I sent this to a publisher, uh years and years ago? And they couldn't publish it because they had their quota and they said they sent me a letter back

01:57:03

Sent it back next year and I lost a letter But they said we were passing it around the whole office everybody was loving it they were cracking up I thought it was fun

01:57:13

Anyway, there you go. I'm, sorry. I read that it was just funny. I just read the sample. It was

01:57:19

Disgusted in my opinion. This is a very sexist book women are toys Wow, so we're almost ending where we started we started with social justice and now we're ending on social

01:57:31

It was funny I'd love to have her on the It'd be great if she could be on the show and tell me how bad

01:57:37

I am. That'd be awesome Sorry, couldn't help. Hey, if any if anyone reads that book and wants to wants to do a response review

01:57:46

We'd welcome that It would be good Yeah Okay, sorry, it made me laugh and I messed messed you up you were saying about podcast something

01:57:55

Maybe we should get me to do a review of it on the show. Oh, wait, she'll never get on camera She won't oh, she's good -looking too.

01:58:02

She could she's very uh camera photogenic But you see the thing is I use the techniques on her so she even if she argues and says this isn't really true.

01:58:09

I go What is this woman? She goes

01:58:16

Shh So here's some things folks, uh, we have the apologetics live facebook group and uh

01:58:24

We're going to try to be active in there and you can ask questions in there Maybe get matt to answer some of their topics for us to discuss sometimes brother did write the review the

01:58:34

Have this is a podcast the in and the podcast will be part of the christian podcast community

01:58:39

And if you're interested in all the podcasts that are there we're going to have that one

01:58:45

I have the rap report. I encourage you to subscribe to that we have Uh, not in the christian podcast community, but we've gone back to podcasting with matt slick live for folks who enjoy his radio show

01:58:55

You can you can search for matt slick And get the matt slick live So you can start downloading that as well.

01:59:03

So, you know five days a week of matt slick That's like gonna hurt actually

01:59:10

Stu the president of the company who runs the show The network he says they want to put me on saturday.

01:59:16

They want to get me a uh, Best of for saturday, so it'll be six days a week. Yeah Yeah, and he well he's talking he would he was would like to turn this into a saturday like a saturday evening show or sunday

01:59:27

Evening show I think he wanted us So yeah mistake boy. I tell you Okay So matt's with karm .org

01:59:34

and if you look in the show notes You're going to see some of the articles that charlie has been posting throughout the show

01:59:40

Um from karm .org that are answering some of those things. So I encourage you to look in the show notes afterwards

01:59:46

After we are finished going live whether it's on audio or in the video that way you can see further articles for your research um, and you could go if you want to find where the

01:59:56

Uh, the podcast this is going to be it will be on striving for eternity You can just do christianpodcastcommunity .org

02:00:04

It gets you to where the podcast will be that will get set up probably next week

02:00:10

Um, and we had some technical issues this week earlier We're going to figure those out.

02:00:16

Uh, google's not always the easiest to work with but right after this matt

02:00:21

Is are the guys at the council are going to start up again? Uh with their hangouts their after shows where they respond to some of the things that were said here

02:00:30

And so i'm going to drop those links for those who are watching live, uh in the chat um

02:00:38

Both I did it both in here and and there so there's a link to join and a link to watch And so we're glad for those of you who watched

02:00:46

I hope this was helpful for folks that you see Some of the reasons why matt asks the questions he does why he goes through that and um

02:00:55

Because we really want you to realize that he's I mean, he's got 38 years of experience We don't want you having to spend 38 years

02:01:03

To get as good as he is at this We want you to get up to speed quicker

02:01:08

And that's why we're doing this where we try to have him explain the why not just go through the arguments but explain the why

02:01:15

So hope that you guys enjoyed it go to karma .org Go to uh, striving fraternity .org

02:01:22

In the links are going to be ways you can support both matt and I um through patreon

02:01:28

Um, so that is something that we would strongly encourage you guys to do so we can keep doing these things on the air um for you, so Thanks a lot.

02:01:39

We will see you next thursday night 8 p .m. Eastern time invite your friends let others know

02:01:45

Maybe we'll get some people that will actually want to debate matt on catholicism, but I think after this one they're going to be scared

02:01:53

You know if you could find someone who could answer questions without having to pontificate for 20 minutes each time that would be okay That would be good.