The Concerning Concerns of Kevin DeYoung - Part 2

Kevin DeYoung’s Critique of the Moscow Mood

Alright. All right. All right. Let's get back into it today. You already know you already know what time it is I got the comment section yesterday, and I had a couple people that That kind of rid me a little bit and they said hey, I'm looking forward to part two and three and four.

You already know. Everyone knows what time it is. I'm just surprised they didn't go up to ten because that's how it usually goes. But you know, I've got a style on my own everybody knows this but let's jump into it today today is where we get into The more controversial stuff.

So Kevin de Young starts, you know, we kind of butters up the audience a little bit. Here's the good things about Doug Wilson and all that kind of stuff. Yeah and to be honest like even some of the good things that he talks about there's a little bit of a backhand to some Of these compliments, which it's okay, man.

I like that kind of style, you know, I I have no problem with that, but It's just it's interesting coming from Kevin de Young. Reverend Kevin de Young I should say. Because he is a reverend. All right, let's jump back into it where the mood misfires.

We're talking about the Moscow mood He says and yet for all that is understandable and sometimes commendable about the Moscow mood there are also serious problems. I Mean I'll tell you right it sounds like he's not kidding.

It really does. He sounds pretty serious. These are serious Problems that we're about to go into here. So let's let's get our serious caps on. I've got mine on. I hope you have yours. Let's let's jump into it.

He says in my criticisms that follow I'm not going to focus on historical or theological Disagreements I may have with Wilson. I won't be touching on the federal. When I read this I actually did laugh out loud for quite some time, but He's like I'm not gonna mention my historical theological discovery here they all are and English lists them.

It's just like you know. You could have Kevin de Young you could have written this and said I'm not gonna mention my historical or theological Disagreements with him period and moved on but instead he said I'm not gonna mention What I'm about to mention.

He doesn't say I'm not gonna mention he's not gonna focus on them. But he does want you to know that there are many Theological and historical disagreements. He says I won't be touching on federal vision or paid a communion or his views on Antebellum South or his arguments for Christian nationalism or his particular brand of post-millennial ism.

My concerns are not so much with one or two conclusions that Christians may reach if Wilson becomes their intellectual mentor. My bigger concern. There's a lot of concerns here bros are concerned. My bigger concern is with the long-term spiritual effects of admiring and imitating the Moscow mood.

For the mood that attracts people to Moscow is too often incompatible with Christian virtue. Inconsiderate of other Christians and ultimately inconsistent with the stated aims of Wilson's Christendom project.

That is some fantastic Writing. I have to say Kevin de Young nobody will accuse him of not being Intelligent and compelling. I love the alliteration there. It is very very strong writing. He says this is incompatible with Christian virtue.

It's inconsiderate of other Christians and Inconsistent with the stated aims of Wilson's Christendom project. Very good sentence. I like that. Rather than expounding these claims in abstract terms, let's look at a couple of concrete examples.

No Quarter November and Wilson’s Public Persona

Five years ago Doug Wilson and Canon Press started something they called no quarter November. The idea is that during November in addition to giving away free resources Wilson and his crew will show no mercy.

Parentheses give no quarter to their enemies. Each year in advance of no quarter November Wilson puts out a promotional video. They always involve a good deal of fire and more than a little sarcasm the 2023 no quarter November video ends with a Clint Eastwood style close-up of Wilson puffing a massive cigar Strapping on a giant flamethrower and setting ablaze an assortment of Disney characters and media logos.

Here's what Wilson says in the first half of the video. Welcome back to quote no quarter November for 11 months out of the year. I am notoriously timid as cautious and polite as a Southern Baptist raising funds for the ERLC.

But the mother November is a time for taking no prisoners and for granting no quarter. If you think of my blog as a shotgun. This is the month where I saw off all my typical careful qualifications and blast away with a double-barreled shorty.

Everything we do this month will be focused on one singular goal. We want to help you apocalypse proof your family, but why should you listen to me about such things? When it comes to the culture war and culture building.

We have been at this for half a century now much longer than such things have been cool to talk about in the green room at G3. Like my parents taught me a strong family isn't possible without quick full and honest confession of sin without any wussy excuse-making.

And especially now it's just as important to not not to confess and repent of things that aren't really sins because lying is bad. And so is being a wuss. I Like that. I like that. Yeah, you know, here's the thing.

You know, I think people are surprised when they hear this about me, but I actually don't follow Doug Wilson that carefully. You know, I I know some people that you know. You're just chomping at the bit every single time you see a new blog post drop or a new video drop and you're just and I Get it.

I mean, there's that it's it's totally fine. I've got people like that it that I follow that every time they drop a video. I'm on it man. I'm on it. I'm on it. And so a lot of people do that with Doug Wilson and I really don't I I do watch Doug Wilson.

I do listen to Doug Wilson and I do read Doug Wilson. But I I pick and choose like if the if the topic looks interesting to me, I will read it I will watch it. And if it doesn't I usually never ever read it or never watch it.

So that's kind of my you know, that's how I follow Doug Wilson. But this is when I do follow Doug Wilson when I do read his stuff. I mean, this is the stuff I come for. It just it's very funny. It's good writing.

I you know, I I like it. I like it. I like it. It's aesthetically very appealing. It's a visceral follow. Man good stuff man. Good stuff. Kevin Young he says you should really should watch the four-minute video if you haven't already noticed several things about the mood.

First it strikes a tone that is deliberately sarcastic and just a bit naughty. Just a bit naughty. Just a little bit naughty. Man no, that's not how I would have described it, but I can see I mean I'm not gonna you go over here and nitpick the guy I can see why he would say that.

That's fine. No one really thinks Wilson is timid and cautious the rest of the year. Actually, that's not true. I'll be honest with you I I actually do understand what Doug Wilson is saying now. I would never say Doug Wilson is timid.

He's not really timid. That's for sure. So it's a joke, you know, he's really being a little sarcastic. It's a joke. He's not timid. But I would say though that Doug Wilson is pretty cautious and I've often said this and I'm not being sarcastic here I'm not trying to be funny.

I think Doug Wilson and the whole thing about All the care, you know, he doesn't want to do the careful qualifications during no quarter November, you know, not too nuanced. You know, he's just gonna kind of shotgun blast it.

I actually think that Doug Wilson is the king of nuance. I think he's extremely nuanced and I know around here on my channel nuance is kind of like a four-letter word. It's a naughty word on my channel, but nuance doesn't have to be bad.

In fact, I think nuance is good. It's just that when big Eva people talk about nuance what they mean is compromise. That's what they mean. They mean that we no longer tell the full truth, or we don't tell the full truth.

Directly like like oftentimes when people say oh, that's not nuanced. They mean oh you haven't compromised with the world enough yet. That's what a lot of people mean when they say nuance. But but actually nuance is good because you need nuance to really completely understand things.

You know not life is not usually as neat and clean as we would like it to be a lot of times. It really depends. I was actually on the phone with somebody just the other day and it was kind of a it wasn't an.

It was a very cordial call. But it was a like there's there's a controversy there is an adversarial type of a call sort of I mean. It wasn't really exactly that but. But I remember telling him a number of times.

It's like, you know, this this is a messy situation, you know. And it's it's obviously, you know, we wish we had done things differently, you know a certain time and stuff like that. But we didn't and now we've got to deal with the situation.

That's in front of us as it is because you know, we can't go back in time. We don't have a time machine. So we have to deal with this messy situation and we got to have some nuance here. I think that's true.

You did nuance is good and Doug Wilson is the king of nuance in fact one of the things I think about Doug Wilson is that I don't follow him as religiously as some of you guys is. Sometimes I think he's too nuanced and it's not in a bad way.

Like again, he's not compromised. He's he's nuanced without compromise. I'm not saying he's compromised. But sometimes I find it a little bit hard to follow. This is just a simple criticism. I like Doug, you know, everybody knows that I like Doug.

I'm not I'm not saying don't read him. I'm just saying sometimes personally for me, you know, I went to public school I you know, I don't understand things as well as some people and I find the the nuance a little bit difficult to follow.

So it's not really true that no one really thinks that he's not cautious. The right, you know the rest of the year. I think he is Kevin Young, that's our that's the sarcasm. The naughty part is that Wilson uses words wussy and Wuss.

Adolescent slang for someone weak and effeminate. These are words most Christian parents don't allow their kids to use since the terms probably originated as a combination of wimp and another word I won't mesh mention.

You can just say it. It's okay. We're adults here. We're adults here man. What's this thing? What is this thing about like like like all of a sudden these words if you use them out of context? Like they're somehow magic words.

You can't even use them out of context like you can't you can't even use these words if you're quoting someone else because for effect. You know, they just look at this guy. He's got a potty mouth. This is what he said and it's like you now now you got the potty mouth and it's like and then sometimes people will put the little asterisks and in place of the vowels and it's like Does that make you clean you put the asterisks there?

Everybody knows what you just said. I mean wait, that doesn't make you clean. I can't think of something more fairsayical than that like you're quoting someone and you're like You put the asterisk and it's like man, man anyway.

He says that is naughty. These are words. Okay, move on second. Oh, by the way, by the way. There are lots of words that I don't want my kids to use that if they were adults. They could use and sometimes would be appropriate to use.

I call things stupid. Quite a bit but not in front of my sons. Not in front of my sons because I don't want my sons using the word stupid because they are not equipped. To know when it's appropriate to use the word.

There are certain words that sometimes an adult human being can use. Because he's got the ability to discern and decipher the difference between when it's an appropriate usage and when it's an inappropriate Usage or even if it's an inappropriate usage is the context relevant, you know, I've said this many times, you know one of the things that I've done in my life is I've been in a few fights and You know, so my my my mo has kind of always been to avoid fights if at all possible.

You know what? I mean? I try not to fight. I do, you know, and I'm willing to fight but I don't want to fight. That's something I've said many times and sometimes. Language that I would never use in any other context is a good way in a situation where there's someone threatening coming and You use a few choice words at them to show them that you're not going to just take this line down and it'll it'll prevent.

The fight it'll actually cause them to back down. There's an appropriate usage for words like that. But I but my kids aren't ready for that yet. They're not my kids are five six eight, you know, I mean like they're not ready for that yet.

So this idea that Christian parents wouldn't even let you use. Yeah, because they're kids. This is that's not an argument. Kevin Doug's an adult. Words aren't magic. It's like I get like I'm too hot. I'm getting too worked up here.

These aren't magic words. They're not magic. They're not magically like like evil or something like that. They can you can use them in a certain context. Anyway. All right. Second the video takes cheap shots at other Christians.

Wilson sarcastic bite is not first directed towards the wicked the hard-hearted or the forces of evil in our world. He takes a swipe at the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission and at the g3 conference.

Both are conservative Baptist groups. Haha. Man Man, you know you'd expect I think that this was the biggest surprise in the article. I think for me because I think Kevin DeYoung is very smart. I saw some of you in the comments that you think I'm maybe being a little naive with Kevin DeYoung and.

And let me just say to you straight up. You might be right. You might be right. I I total and it's happened to me in the past where I've been, you know, potentially a little naive. I mean it happened with Owen Strawn, for example, you know I had his back many times and I knew that he was woke like five minutes ago.

But it looked like he was changing and some of you guys saw through that from Jump Street. I mean, I'm telling you I had so many people that would hear me kind of praising Owen Strawn with his with his anti-wokeness stuff and and You'd hear me praise it and you'd get you get me beside you say hey, you know, that guy's a coward, dude.

Yeah, he's just doing this because this is like the he's riding this wave today. He'll be he will ride another wave tomorrow. And I was like, yeah, you know, you know, I I get I hear you I hear you. But you know, I want to encourage people man.

I want to encourage people that are figuring this out. Maybe they're not a hundred percent there, but I want to incur and I was like, yeah, you know, but they were right I was I was being naive man. I would so you guys might be right.

I'm not. I'm not I have no no qualms with you. Guys, you know, I get it. I get it. I'm willing listen. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. I'm encouraging Kevin DeYoung I think he's on the right team.

I think so. But you got it you got to have different layers for people I think you know, like like, you know If Kevin DeYoung was working with me, for example, hypothetically, I mean, he probably doesn't even know who I am.

But let's just say he was um, I wouldn't trust him with everything. You know what I mean? I wouldn't trust him with everything, you know, I wouldn't speak to him the way I speak to Joel Webben. You know what?

I mean? I wouldn't I trust Joel Webben implicitly. You know, there's certain people that I trust, you know with just about anything. You know if I'm kicking around something that I know is kind of outside the Overton.

That's never happened. I Talked to a guy like Isker. I talked to a guy like Webben. I talked to a guy like Chalk Knox, you know stuff like that. But but I wouldn't talk to a guy like Kevin because I don't fully trust him yet.

You know what I mean? But that's okay. That's okay. You know, you got different you got different levels of trust. You got the circle of trust like and meet the parents, you know. Anyway, so but anyway, this is the biggest mistake in this article because because I mean g3 I would say they're still you know, pretty conservative.

That's not a mistake, but but the ERL see the ERL see is the conservative Baptist group the ERL see do you remember when the ERL see put out that thing about how the other the pioneering edge like the the cutting edge of pro-life is human rights for animals.

Animal human rights or a person rights or something like that. It wasn't human rights. It was an animal person right personal rights. Maybe it was human rights. I don't know. It was it was wild. The ERL see the ERL see we got you got Russell Moore like this when he's meeting meeting Obama.

The ERL see this is and I think this is a mistake and also it tips his hand a lot. It tips his hand a lot. He's he's seen people, you know, you know pushing that Overton window. Further and further and further he's seeing people escape this this this eat.

This this big Eva ghetto that they've constructed for us where there's only the certain opinions are allowed. He's seeing people escape. There's a prison break right now people are breaking free from people like Matt Chandler and people like Tim Keller and people they're breaking free.

And and here he he's trying to to bring us back. You know, he's like the he's like the. We're the fugitive slaves and he's like one of these bounty hunters trying to find the fugitive slaves to bring him back onto the plantation.

The ERL see he's trying to say no. No, no. No, the ERL see is conservative here. I stand. What a joke. What a joke that was a huge misstep because it tips his hand and if it doesn't tip his hand. It really shows how clueless he is about what's really going on out there.

The ERL see is a conservative Baptist group. You've got to be kidding me. You've got to be kidding me. He says both are conservative Baptist groups groups I might add that would be on the same side with Wilson on almost every important cultural battle again.

Let's take g3 out of it because I think he's right about g3 for the most part the ERL see. No, no, they wouldn't. Yeah. Yeah, this this organization the wokest organization out there in in Big Evil and yeah.

They're on the same side of almost every political battle is Doug Wilson. They say they're against abortion. Did you know that they're against abortion? Man, what a joke what a joke. He says it's fine.

If Wilson wants to disagree with these groups. They've disagreed with him at times, but Wilson doesn't mention them in the video in order to make a serious argument. He uses them for a punchline. If you like Wilson, you're supposed to think oh, no, he did it.

Oh. Uh-huh. Oh, no, he did it. Why did he say that who says that? Oh, no, he did it. Black people don't even say that anymore. No, he didn't shoo. You're supposed to think no he didn't uh-huh, that's hilarious and If you like the ERL see or G or g3 you're supposed to be triggered because if Moscow can watch their opponents get triggered that Is also funny.

That's true. It is When serious criticism is leveled at Moscow the famous response of the sorry. The response often includes a smattering of mockery and means that isn't Wilson using his famous serrated edge.

To make a prophetic point against a godless culture. This is intentionally making fun of other Christians for a quick Chuckle, here's the thing. Here's the thing reverend de young I'm assuming you grew up amongst other boys.

Maybe you didn't. I don't know anything about your personal life. But I grew up I had a brother a younger brother and I had a lot of friends that were were male. You know. We were this is at the time of my life when you know girls were icky and you know who wanted to do have anything? to do with them kind of thing and You know even even later in life when girls weren't icky anymore, you know I I still preferred to hang out with my friends my male friends.

You know what? I mean? Like, you know girls were interesting, you know for other reasons, but my friend if I was gonna have fun I'd go out with my friends. You know what? I'm gonna go with my male friends and stuff like that and in those kinds of relationships There's a lot of making fun.

And it's a and it's a making fun In in love, but also there's some seriousness to it like it like hypothetically This never happened but hypothetically I had a friend who was very into fashion, but not like the Traditional kind of male fashion kind of like, you know the gay kind.

And and I had I would make fun of him for this. Of course, obviously all the time and Part partly it was in love because I loved my friend. Partly, I was serious. I thought that his interest in you know, what kind of Paisley, you know pattern He had on his on the inside of his jacket or whatever.

Yeah, I'm just I don't know if that was a real thing I don't even know if Paisley is a thing. I Was serious like dude, you're gay man. Why are you being so gay? I was serious I I thought he ought not act that way.

We were checking each other all the time all the time and they would check me and It was something that we did and and it was part of the way that we expressed our our love for one another. You know what?

I mean? I've said many times my brother, you know, if he if he's not, you know. Calling me names for a long time. I start to wonder if something if I did something wrong to offend him. You know what? I mean?

I wonder if if if I if I if I hurt his feelings or something because he's no longer Cool with me anymore. He's not mocking me anymore. And if he's not mocking me anymore, that's a different kind of relationship.

You know, that's that's something that that guys do. At least they should at least they should because here's the thing. It's it's it's it's it's it's fun Number one, but but it's also it's it's kind of it's like training, right?

It's like when you're kids and you're being checked and and and and tested like that. It's like training almost for number one to see if is this a relationship that I can trust this guy number one. And number two, like it's it's like a loving fight.

To prepare you for an actual fight, you know what I mean? Like like like if somebody makes fun of me out there in the world, you know for my beliefs or something like that I've practiced this so many times that I kind of I don't take it.

You know as as as as as hardly as I might take take it if I'd never been tested before check before. This kind of sparring, you know what I mean? That's kind of sparring. It that's what it's like sometimes and so I think I don't think that Doug Wilson is is is you know I'm sure he does this for a chuckle.

But there's there's a serious side to it of course because he thinks that g3 should be different than they are and he definitely thinks the ERLC is different than they are and sort of to put those together like that.

That's an insult to g3 for sure because I don't think g3 is the RLC yet. They're on the way though. I'll tell you that they're on that path and it's almost like it's checking them a little bit. He's testing them a little bit.

We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. But this is there's nothing wrong with mocking a brother. There's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing wrong then then then getting a chuckle at the expense of someone that's on your team.

Assuming that the ERLC is on our team. I'm not so sure that that's what the joke was here. But well, maybe maybe. This is something that guys do and this is part of the visceral attraction. To this because we all all us men grew up doing exactly this and we Understand that it doesn't mean I hate my brother.

It doesn't mean I hate my friends when I say dude Why are you acting so gay? It doesn't mean that. It actually is is a it's a form of bond. It's a and everyone kind of knows the difference between mean-spirited stuff and things like you know I mean like and there have been times of my friends like, you know, cool it on that stuff, man.

You know, like, you know, and you know what happens? Okay, if they're really your friend, you know. If they're really your friend. Anyway, um, yeah, just you know so much of what what Big Eva writes when they're so concerned.

It is it is written from the perspective of a mom. That's right. You know like you're my like if if if Mike my sons were doing this kind of thing. Their mother might not like it and we might even tell them to stop.

But if I if I were with my sons and they were doing something similar to this. Even even bat an eye. I wouldn't even bat an eye. Because I grew up as a dude. I know what it's like Big Eva writes from a female perspective.

They just do. They just do. I'm not saying that Kevin de Young is a feminine. I'm not saying that but he was trained and brought up in this in this in this context where Feminine attributes are the only way to be holy to be righteous.

Feminine attributes are the only ones that are truly Christian virtue and if someone has zeal if someone has like you know What I mean like something like that like a Nehemiah I could easily see someone like Kevin de Young Rebuking Nehemiah doing the very actions that he did and got set up as an example by God for for for for doing Nehemiah did you really have to beat them.

That's not Christian to beat them Nehemiah did you pulled their beards out and I'm a little troubled by that Nehemiah. Did you have to call down curses upon them? I could easily see that Doug Wilson Has a has a more full-orbed view of How to serve the Lord and what Christian virtue is and zeal is part of it.

Culture War, Apocalypse Proofing, and Christian Masculinity

It is it is third. The point of No Quarter November is explicitly about culture warring and culture building. Rightly understood it is good to do both of these things. But it is instructive to see that Wilson's stated aim is to help you apocalypse proof your home.

I think it's safe to say that this is what Wilson aims to do. Not just in November in intense in an intensified fashion but during the other 11 months of the year and in Wilson's mind preparing for the Apocalypse means doing battle against the forces of leftism in our world and Wilson's public persona is.

Largely about is largely about commenting on the culture pushing back on the culture Lampooning the culture and getting Christians ready for the coming cultural collapse. I Mean that's a good point. Is that supposed to be bad?

Because this is supposed to this is supposed to be his fear, right? This is supposed to be the things that are that are that are that are deeply troubling deeply concerning. What was it again? Serious this is supposed to be a serious problem the fact that that that Doug Wilson spends time Helping you to the to to to to get ready for the coming cultural collapse.

Reverend. Again I went to public school. Can you help me understand? Why that is a serious problem. Can you help me understand I? Don't get it. I'm a little confused. Fourth the video is squarely focused on Wilson himself on one level that is not surprising Christian institutions and organizations often use their founder President or leading voice as the face of the ministry.

But the focus here is not on Wilson as the conduit of biblical teaching and doctrinal truth or even as the instrument of helpful cultural Analysis, the focus is on Wilson himself. Wilson as a rebel role.

Wilson as a gunslinger. Wilson as a taboo breaking cigar smoker. Wilson as the courageous hero we need in a crazy world like ours. No quarter November is selling a carefully cultivated personality and image.

Wilson's personality and Wilson's image. Again, I have to say That's true. That's true, where's the serious problem I Don't Understand again. Maybe you can help me. You know I have my IQ checked. I know what my IQ is.

So I should be able to understand this, but I simply don't maybe maybe you're just in the stratosphere or something. And you're talking on on on 4d chess here. What's the problem? What's the problem? Doug's promoting his own blog.

This is his blog. It's his blog. It's a it's the dog. It's even called Doug wills calm. Doug wills calm he's promote. He's promoting his blog. It's his blog. Who else would be? What. I think we got a stop there.

This has been going on for 30 minutes, so this is part two. We're gonna continue in part three. Maybe tomorrow, and we'll see where this goes, but this is just very Very interesting stuff. It's it's you know.

It's really it doesn't take a genius. It really doesn't. I mean you know Big Eva is is Is curated and cultivated and very carefully? Promoting a really soft Version of Christianity, and you know what softness is part of Christianity.

Because of course there's there's there's there's there's there's times for tenderness. You know Ecclesiastes is a time for everything under the Sun but Big Eva and and and and and and these kinds of perspectives.

That list of there's a time for everything under the Sun all of the stuff. That's like a little too harsh. They pretend like it's not there. There's no time for war. There's no time for breaking down.

There's a but there's a time for building up. There's a time for breaking down and ERLC I think is well beyond the time for breaking down. It pretend like half of that list is not even there. It's not even there now.

We're in the Christian time, and there's only a time for the stuff that makes you feel warm and cuddly. Oh, and by the way, don't prepare don't don't apocalypse proof your house because that's somehow scary.

It doesn't take a genius. That's Big Eva. We've been served a steady diet of that for decades. And now we've got some people out there. Doug is one of them. He's been doing it for decades, but now we've got some people out there that are like well hold on a second.

Hold on a second. That's incomplete. That's incomplete. We can act like men we can do things that men do we can check each other we can rib each other we can Spar with each other we can be funny. We can be cutting we can be by we can use words like wussy if we want to.

It's a visceral attraction of course because we've it's almost like aha There you go. Yeah, that's right. We actually don't have to become women in order to be Christians we actually don't have to do that women are great, and we love our women and they can be women.

Yeah, even in the kingdom of God. We can actually still be guys so we could we could still be dudes. You know what I mean anyway, I Hope you found this video helpful. We're having fun here. I'm looking forward to part two.

God bless you. Take care.