Keep sharing good news without ads.
No description available
Hi there. Welcome to Reformed Ex-Mormon. I am Pastor Brayden, and I hope you're having a wonderful and blessed day today. Today we're going to be answering a really interesting question, something that I think will bless the individual Christian that might be participating in ministry.
Maybe you're a pastor, maybe you're helping lead up something within your church, or maybe you might just be an XLDS member thinking about doing ministry. If that is the case, I really encourage you to watch this whole video through, and I would also encourage you, if you like today's video, please comment, like, share, and subscribe as we try to advance the kingdom of God.
So today's question is one that comes about with much study and is in direct light of a recent incident that I had with an XLDS member, something that is very worrying and alarming for myself, something that as a pastor, I need to note and make sure to identify if anyone was ever to come into our doors of our church and try to participate within our fellowship.
And this is something that's very important for you today as members or pastors or elders or deacons, even within your own church. Whatever situation you might be, this is something that I think would be pertinent to the Christian to listen to today.
That question is, should XLDS members serve within leadership or become a pastor or be ordained, things along those lines. And now this is one that is very pertinent for myself because as if you know anything about me, I am a pastor of a small church in Idaho, and I myself am XLDS.
So the question, should an XLDS individual serve in ministry? It depends. This is a question that I remember being immediately taken back and somewhat offended by by a gentleman that I've met in person, somebody that I've preached the gospel with, somebody that I love very dearly that's blessed me in my own Christian walk.
This is something that first sparked in my mind several years ago when I first was converted and knew Jesus as my Lord and my God. I immediately was searching through Internet sources and trying to gather and glean as much information as I could about who is Jesus Christ, opening up God's word and comparing it with everything that somebody was saying.
And I remember coming across a video of James White, and in that video, he said something that offended me, and I think that you'll understand why. He said that a person, if they are Mormon, if they're an LDS member and they leave the LDS church and they come and be a part of his church, he will not allow them to participate in ministry unless they've been at that church for 10 years and being discipled.
And I remember just thinking to myself, where is that in God's word that somebody has to have left a false religion, a works-based salvation, something that is very cultish, and when they leave it, they have to have a time limit before they are able to serve within ministry.
So before even making this video, I scoured online trying to find that video, find that quote, and I can't find it. So just know that that mentioning of what James White said could be a little bit of a misquote, but I just remember being just really struck down by that statement by Dr. James White.
And as mentioned before, I need to say it again, I've had the opportunity, the great blessing to be able to preach alongside with James White, doing an actual LDS class with Elder Lucas is what his name was in that class.
It was a real blessing to be able to meet him in person, somebody that I admire very much. And I look back now at what I first was originally offended by. And sure enough, I've now seen it where wisdom was vindicated by our deeds through the last many years of being a Christian, being in Christ, and seeing with tears in my eyes ex-LDS members that profess to know Christ.
They were never possessors of a regenerate faith in Christ. And they ended up being very big flaming heretics, wolves, people that I would never allow to be within my own church now. And so I actually value what James White said those many years ago now.
And it still kills me to this day to think of those individuals that I used to call brothers and sisters in Christ. Now there are people that I wouldn't even associate myself with. When I was first saved, I still remember this one individual who was very much in a close relation with myself in proximity and wanted to do ministry together.
As months went by, it was very clear that he was a heretic. He did not even possess or have faith in the essentials of the Christian faith. He denied Christ, and he ended up going on to divorce his wife, to abandon his children, to renounce the faith altogether.
I even think about some of the big names when I first was converted. Big names, people that had left Mormonism that now had faith in Christ. These big names I remember watching and rejoicing over their testimonies.
They too would start to fall away from the faith. They would become Jewish and deny Christ altogether. Lee Baker, for example, on that. Things that were really upsetting to myself. And then over more time went on.
And I remember getting Facebook messages, which I still do every once in a while, from Mormons that come to say they have faith in Christ. And these individuals, as you examine their life in years to come, they begin to show the fruit of not being actually saved.
And even in this most recent incident, a gentleman who is in Idaho who reports to have been saved in the year of 2019-ish, I believe it is. Me and him, I did some evangelism with him. Ran into him at a temple when I was proclaiming the gospel.
And then I know that he was promoting his book and a website for his ministry that he was doing. And that at that time did throw alarms for me. But I was like, OK, well, maybe on his website there's stuff about the gospel.
Maybe that's the way that he's doing evangelism. Well, as time went on, he started to make comments on my Facebook posts regarding Calvinism, doctrines of grace, that reformed doctrine of the soteriology that we're saved by God completely.
Which when we look at a lot of those things are secondary in nature and something that I would be more than happy as a pastor of a church to pastor and worship God alongside with somebody that denies the doctrines of grace.
I would never say that they're not Christian. This individual is coming on to my Facebook and is making claims against myself and against these doctrines and cannot substantiate them, denies any sort of public debate or public interaction with these things.
And so I begin to look into his life and I see videos that he was making prior to his conversion, his reported conversion. And videos that he's making today and they're completely same in nature and behavior, which is alarming.
As one of the ways that we should be able to tell someone is saved or not is by examining the fruit that they are bearing. That which is evident of a new heart, the law of God being written there upon it and upon their mind.
That's part of being a new covenant member that we should expect. And so I started doing more digging and this gentleman is claiming to be an ordained minister. And so I want to know where he goes to church, what church he was ordained with.
And it comes to find out that he was ordained through an online ministry that charges $100 to $300 for a pastoral ordination. And he got that within months of him saying that he was converted. And what was truly alarming was when I reached out to the churches in this area to try to find out where he goes to church because of the alarming comments he was making regarding the doctrines of grace and not being able to differentiate between essentials of the Christian faith, that which is essential and core foundational for orthodoxy and being able to differentiate that from secondary disagreeable debatable items that he was elevating to essentials.
If this man is claiming to be ordained, I'm worried about that if you cannot differentiate between those things. And so I called churches in the area and I find a church that says that they know this gentleman, Lance Earl.
And they say that he came into their church saying he was told by God that he was going to be their next pastor. And when they went to worship God there that day, he turned his back to the speakers, that which was used to amplify the sound and said, that's not biblical.
I'm not going to worship God with you. This is the alarm when it comes to any XLDS individual that comes to say and reports that they have faith in Christ. On each one of those examples that I've given, whether it was the gentleman that I associated with when I was first saved, whether it was Lee Baker in his ministries that he was doing, or the people I was getting messages from, or even this gentleman, Lance.
I would look at those individuals and I'd say, man, you're saved. Hallelujah. Praise the Lord. You're professing to have faith in Jesus Christ. This is a great thing. And there's a zeal to that. There's a desire to want to go out and tell the world these things.
But as time goes on, it seems that those were just false claims. That they liked the hype. They liked the popularity. They liked that which would refute that which they used to believe in. And as time goes on, they end up being deniers of the very blood of Jesus Christ they reported to have faith in.
And this individual, even with Lance and some of these other individuals that I've gotten private messages from, I don't know where they stand in salvation. I cannot say whether they're saved or not. But I don't know them in person, but I can say that I can see their fruits and it appears to not be that which is consistent with the gospel.
And therefore, I fear for those individuals. And so the question, the question that we asked in this video was, should ex-LDS be involved in ministry? Let's look at what God's Word says about this. Paul, in writing a letter to young Timothy, He says this about participating, people participating in ministry, specifically as elders.
It says in here in verse 6 of 1 Timothy chapter 3, Not a new convert. So that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation of the devil. I read this and I look, I hope if there's pastors or church members that are watching this that are considering, there's this ex-LDS person that says they have faith in Christ.
What should we do with them? I would encourage you that you should come alongside with their joy, their zeal that they have. And you should begin to disciple them. Do not place them immediately into a place of speaking and teaching and leading.
You haven't seen the fruit that they bear to know if that is what they should or shouldn't be doing. Paul tells Timothy, let no one look upon your age, your youthful age. Let no one look down upon this.
So if a man is called of God, it doesn't matter where he's called from. It's a good thing that he desires to do. That's what this whole chapter starts out with doing in verse 1. It is a trustworthy saying.
If any man aspires to the office of overseer, he desires good work. It's a good thing to desire to be an elder. It's a good thing to want to advance the kingdom of God. It's a good thing to want to participate in a great commission through different means of ministry.
These are great things. However, as a pastor, part of tending the sheep and feeding the sheep is to make sure that they are sheep. And so we should not be quick in throwing people that have come out of false religions that have taught that Jesus Christ is created, that Jesus Christ is our eldest brother, that he's not a part of this trinity, he's not the second person of the trinity.
If somebody claims that, there's a lot of mind doctrine that they have still in their heads that have to be unraveled, that have to be discipled, that have to be pointed to Scripture and answered. And these are the worries that I have for any ex-LDS member that gets immediately put into ministry.
It's a good thing that what they're professing to know. It's a great thing what they're professing. I just don't know if I could look at it and say that that's going to be the same thing that they're professing in 10 years from now.
So I think back at the day when James White said that and I was offended about it, and I look back now nine-ish years later and I say, I tend to agree with James White on this. I don't know if I'd ever put a time limit to it, but I know I would not ordain a man three or four or five or six months after he was saved.
I wouldn't want to put that man into any form of leadership inside the church. I would not want to put that man in charge of souls. I would not want to put that man in charge of exegeting God's Word. I would want to put that man into a Bible study.
I'd want to put that man into a one-on-one discipleship with me or with another man that I know is in the faith. And why? Why would I want to do that? It's to raise him up to that spot. You see, when someone is converted, it is not immediately that they should be put into those positions.
And so if you are a pastor, you are a church member, and you have an ex-LDS member that has a zeal. They were saved last week. They want to tell their family, their friends about Jesus Christ that has saved them.
Tell them, keep that zeal, keep that fire, but let me fan it with God's Word before you go out. Come and submit yourself to the church. Come worship God with us first. Let's get to know you. Let's know if you know the essentials.
Do you know who Jesus Christ is? Do you know what salvation is? Do you know what God has saved you from? What is the gospel? Do you believe and have faith that it is through Jesus' perfect life, through His substitutionary death, His burial, His resurrection on the third day, according to the scriptures, that you are saved?
And do you believe that He will come again to receive those that believe, and to cast judgment upon those that sin against Him, that don't believe in Jesus Christ? Do you believe that there is one God from all eternity to eternity?
There is none before nor after. Do you believe Jesus was born of a virgin? Do you believe that you are born again? These are the essentials. These are essential to the Christian faith. And if a Mormon does not know these things, they must not be placed in charge of anyone in your church.
If you support ministries like this, of converts that have been ordained within a month, or converts that were not really converted, I would ask you to stop supporting those type of individuals. You should not be supporting that which you cannot say adamantly is truly representative of what God's Word is teaching.
And so the question of, should an LDS member be in ministry, is answered upon, it depends. They first need to be sought out and sifted through and checked and watched and loved and cared and built up.
And after those things have taken place, however long that might be, maybe that's two years, maybe that's five years, maybe that's 10 years. If that's the case, then build those people up, build those men up and place them in ministry.
When you can say with assurity and with firmness and a clear conscience that these people are in Christ, that's a good thing. However, you share in their conceitedness and ultimately their condemnation, their fall into the hands of the devil.
If you lay hands on them too soon, if you place them in that ministry and they are not really in the fold, they're not really sheep, all you've done is given a platform for a wolf. And this is a burden for you.
If you were a pastor, this is a burden for you. If you were a leader of ministry, this is something very serious. If we are to view God's people as God's people, the very people he spilled his own blood for, that precious bride, you and I, if you're a pastor, you should love them.
If a man comes to you, any man that says, I wish to be in ministry, seek them out before you place them there because you love the bride, because you love the one who spilled his blood for her. That is your responsibility as a leader in the church.
I would caution, again, if a man desires to an office of ministry, that's a good thing. Foster it. Love them. Share the gospel daily with them. And eventually when that individual bears that fruit, then when you are good in conscience, place them there.
I hope that this answers your question. I hope that this blesses you today. God bless. Go tell the world about your King, Jesus Christ, who died for our sins.
