Conference Sermon - What Is Keeping It Legal?

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Just waiting for our cameras to turn on. That's all guys good All right.

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Welcome everybody. How are you? Good good to see everybody. I know that everybody here has had such a long day

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Oklahoma is unbelievably cold today We did not come prepared dressed for this and so Yeah, so I'm thankful for my team that came up with me and thankful for all of you guys that endured the cold

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To be a prophetic witness to the culture I don't want to keep you too long because there's a speaker after me if you know me

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I have sins in the area of time and so I'm gonna try my best not to do that But I do want to take advantage of this time to really speak to you and to those who'll be watching this online around the world about the important biblical issues and The way we need to be thinking what we need to be standing on this is

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I think the first time I've really pulled together a message like this in terms of really addressing the fatal flaw of the pro -life

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Industry the fatal flaw of the pro -life industry much many of you guys already know this But I want to address the biblical issues surrounding that fatal flaw and These are the things

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I think we need to be bringing to our brothers and sisters in Christ who are part of the pro -life Movement now,

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I'm going to start this off first by asking God to bless this and we just not forget to pray father Please bless the message today.

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Please guard my heart in my mind from error speak to your church Change us transform us renew us

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Give us victory for your glory in the sake of these children in Jesus name. Amen So I want to make it very very clear and I think

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Bradley's talk really emphasized this when we talk about pro -life There was nothing unbiblical about the term life as a matter of fact

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We could pull together a number of different references in scripture in terms of really highlighting the goodness of the word

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Life and being for life. We're being very specific when we talk about What's wrong with quote -unquote pro -life?

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We're talking about the pro -life organizations the pro -life Industry and it is in fact an industry

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I want to encourage you to be considerate of one very important factor as we talk about the problems of the pro -life

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Industry and that is in my experience by and large most biblical solid

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Jesus loving believers who know the Word of God and want to see abortion ended don't understand the problem

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They're not in this discussion fully like you are have had their eyes opened in this like you have and so in my

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Experience as you can go towards the brother or sister in Christ who identifies as pro -life

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We need to see them as a brother or sister in Christ that we are winning to the truth and exposing the error so I want to encourage you not to become myopic in your vision and Not to become the kind of person that gets over into a corner and shrinks yourself down see the pro -life industry as a mission field

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It's a mission field and the glorious thing about this mission field is by and large It's filled with people who profess faith in Jesus Christ that we simply need to say.

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Hey, did you know? They're not really trying to end it Did you know that this is an industry a large vast?

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International money -making machine that has no interest in calling this criminal

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Talking about it like it's murder Did you know that they? Explicitly say from the top we have the records we have the

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Interviews that we've done and it's it's truly providential and amazing that we got years ago sit -downs with the leaders of the pro -life industry for some reason that happens and We got the interviews where they are with their own mouths saying on record that they are not

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Christian organizations they are not approaching this like you are like I am as a pastor

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They're not approaching it with their feet firmly planted in the biblical worldview with a commitment to Jesus Christ as Lord the leaders of the pro -life industry will tell you proudly and explicitly they are not approaching this as Christians and there's a fatal flaw.

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Jesus says if you're not with me, you're against me Please hear that and embrace it because it doesn't just count for this issue of Abortion and the pro -life industry if you are not with me

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You are against me if you're ashamed of Jesus. He will be ashamed of you

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That is part and parcel to the biblical worldview when Jesus called people to come to him for life

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He bid them to come and to die and to rise again We have to understand that the pro -life industry is explicitly not

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Christian. They are pretending Neutrality they are not approaching this issue with their feet firmly planted the biblical worldview and you might be saying, okay

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I understand it's a problem. But is there any other problem? The answer is yes, if you're not standing on the

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Word of God starting with Christ is the foundation of all knowledge Then you will be inconsistent

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You will fall apart and I believe that's one of the primary reasons today

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We see abortion and the way that we do in the pro -life movement and industry So ineffective as they are not approaching it

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Consistently and they are not approaching it with a commitment to Christ and his Lordship and that comes to some problems here

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I'm gonna try to do this kind of fast. I would love to expand on this, but it's been late I know you guys are probably exhausted. And so I'm gonna do my best to give you these problems that I see and the first place it starts is with us as Christians in the church in terms of where we inconsistent what's wrong?

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How do we fix this? And so it's a confusion about authority first point There's a confusion when we talk about the church and our perspective not just on this issue

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But issues outside of this we could talk about transgender issues gender issues.

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We could talk about human sexuality we could talk about problems of liberty and government and Injustices being perpetrated upon people by the government's there is a confusion in the 21st century

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Evangelical church in the West about authority I Talked about this a bit today.

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Now if you get this you're gonna get a primary Fundamental issue get it right and I believe that we're gonna see light in our world

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There's a confusion about authority in the 21st century evangelical church in the West. Who's the boss?

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Who's in charge here? We have a very dualistic perspective.

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I'm not going to get into a large discussion about the problem of that We also have a lot of gnosticism that's infiltrated the modern church today in terms of how we think about the world

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And the best thing is just to escape from this reality leave our humanity behind to get into this higher story up there

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So much of the original enemies of the church has infiltrated the 21st century church in terms of how we think about life and the future and eternal life

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But understand there's a confusion about authority and I'm gonna just put a pin in one major verse

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You should already know. This is not something that's supposed to be in dispute by Christians This this is something we need to stand on.

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I don't care where you're at Baptist Presbyterian solidly Anglican or where I don't care where you're at.

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This is not a point of disagreement amongst Christians. It shouldn't be It can't be this is not a verse where it's like well, what are the different interpretations of that passage?

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This is clear Matthew 28 18 through 20 All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me and He says on that basis go therefore and make disciples of all the nations

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Baptizing them in a name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit Teaching them to observe all that I've commanded you

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So here we have that Great Commission passage and of course, it's at the climax of Matthew's gospel

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It's at the end and this is where Jesus has lived a righteous life. He has defeated death sin and death

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He has risen again from the grave He has appeared to the disciples and eyewitnesses and now the

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Ascension the by the way Expected Ascension of the King going up to the

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Ancient of Days Daniel 7 13 through 14 Receiving a kingdom dominion that all peoples nations and men of every language might serve him his kingdom

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It will never be destroyed according to that promise in Daniel and his dominion is an everlasting dominion

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Now Jesus went up he ascended to the Ancient of Days He is seated now, but remember this and you'll understand the confusion the problem that we are seeing in our world today

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It's a confusion about authority Jesus says all Let it hang for a second because we're having a hard time with it all

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Authority In heaven and most evangelicals Christians today will say that's right.

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He's the king over heaven and on earth Here today in Oklahoma at the

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Capitol in Arizona at my Capitol over Washington DC in China over the

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Communist Party Everywhere on this earth Jesus has all authority all of it.

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He's not waiting to take his throne brothers and sisters He's not waiting to be seated He's not waiting to come back to receive authority.

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He has all authority today here on this earth We need to repent

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Over not living like that's not like that's true If there's a problem here, it's a problem with us

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We don't speak to the governing authorities in terms of their the demand of their obedience to the king because we don't believe he has authority over the government today in Scripture he does and You know, it's we know it, but we don't live consistently with it

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It's one of those Christian beliefs that sort of like there for the theological exam. Do you believe that Jesus is the king of kings?

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Check yes, he's the king of kings that he's a lord of lords. Okay. I've got that I can pass that theological

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Exam is Jesus today the ruler of the kings of the earth. Yes Is he ascended and is he seated is he reigning now according to Paul in 1st

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Corinthians 15 today? And every Christian goes check, but do you live like it's true?

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Do you preach like it's true? Do you go to where there is injustice being perpetrated by God's?

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Deacon the states do you go there and demand of them that they obey and honor

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God? That's the way the father speaks about the Son in Psalm chapter 2 very

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Trinitarian passage long before Jesus earthly ministry Psalm chapter 2 the father has a conversation with the son

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The father says to the son ask of me and I'll give you the nations for your inheritance the very ends of the earth for your possession

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One of my heroes of the faith. Dr. Bonson used to always say do you think Jesus forgot to ask? No, and Of course, we know he didn't forget to ask because he says that he brought his kingdom

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He said that he was the king and he told us to go get the nations because he had all the authority

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He didn't forget to ask for the nation's the father saying I'll give him to you Jesus of course is the king of kings and Lord of Lords But in Psalm chapter 2 the father says to the kings of the earth obey the

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Son or you'll perish There's a major problem about authority We think that Jesus is king over heaven one day

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But he really doesn't have much to say to the world today the goal of the gospel Really we all know is for every person to have their own individual private intimate relationship with Jesus and romance

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And then they're gonna one day just sort of be taken out of this world to go to heaven to be with Jesus one day

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No, the perspective is wrong in scripture is very little detail about us escaping from here and going there

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It's called the kingdom of heaven for a reason because it's about heaven coming to earth

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He's making all things new he's not making all new things. He's making all things new

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There is a new creation theology in the New Testament about what Jesus is doing to reverse the curse as far as it's found all

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All authority now, I am so glad that our forbearers did not have the perspective of the evangelical of today

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The Puritan forbearers the Huguenot forbearers that started this nation those believers saw

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Christ and his royal rights Over everything they would

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I mean Russell did a great job man. What a fence Russell is brilliant What a fantastic talk but good point about our constitutional system and the

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Covenanters Covenants were right by the way Jesus needed to be in our founding documents.

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They had to explicitly name Jesus They were worried if you don't name the God of the Bible and your governing documents, you're gonna lose your country.

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They were rights They were rights and before that praise God you had colonies

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That actually named the triune God of Scripture and their governing documents and even in treaties with other nations

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Right in the name of the triune God of the Bible we declare and they would have that's how they saw things they saw

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Jesus authority over everything and when they would start a Community and they were establishing that deacon of God the state to execute justice.

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Where did they go to figure out? What's justice? Explicitly to the law of God They would go and say well

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God's spoken on what's just here. What's justice? Well, he says here in Deuteronomy and he says here in Exodus that this is the principle and so they would apply it and there's

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They say well, we have to apply that because it's God's heart for justice. That's the principle. They understood

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There was there is confusion today about authority and here's my answer all all of it

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Well, there's a separation of church and state Well, the Christian Church actually historically created that doctrine based on Scripture So when someone says hey,

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I believe in the separation of church and state say thank a Christian The only problem is is when

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Christians were describing the separation of church and state what they meant was That the we shouldn't have a state -controlled church

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Or a church -controlled state they didn't want a Church of England situation But they believed very clearly in the doctrine of separation of church and state and what the

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Bible teaches that you have the sphere of the state Ordained by God to be God's servant and the sphere of the church each has distinct duties and responsibilities under the true

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God Jesus Yes We are working for the entire nation to come to the obedience of Jesus Christ.

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I'm not ashamed of that There's confusion about authority. There's confusion about the mission.

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I Mentioned today at the rally that we should reject the truncated gospel of the evangelical

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West that teaches that it's about Praying a magic prayer and escaping to heaven one day the goal of the gospel

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Did you hear it was to win the nation's to God and teach them to obey Jesus? That's the goal

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That's the goal Genesis 49 10 first book of the Bible I we could do this for days and I would love to turn you all in a post -millennialist

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But I'm not supposed to do that right now We can do this for days in terms of verse after verse after verse about the scope

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But listen where we should not dispute with each other Genesis 49 10 gives a promise about the coming

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Messiah Shiloh is coming and it says and to him shall be the obedience of the nations first book of the

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Bible I'll give you descendants as numerous as the stars your descendants are gonna be like the sand on the seashore

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And oh, by the way, here's this little glimmer not quite understood yet Someone is coming and to him shall be the obedience of the peoples of the nations

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Isn't it interesting that the Apostle Paul when he unpacks the gospel in Romans chapter 1 in the last chapter

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Both ends of his systematic explanation of the gospel Starts with the declaration that the goal here is to bring about the obedience of faith among the nations for the sake of his name

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Romans 1 and the last chapter bookends that the goal is to bring the nations to obedience to who

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Jesus The nations are the goal. The goal is the obedience of the nations

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There is confusion about God's desires for justice we could do this all day

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I will not belabor this because this is so Overwhelming we could literally sit here for a couple of hours and just literally read through the text from Genesis to Revelation About God's heart for justice.

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Please hear me on this. This is key We believe as believers as Christians that God is immutable It's a fancy word that just means that God is not changing

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He doesn't change now God. We know in Scripture has different Administrations of his covenant blessings and his promises, but even when

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God says, okay I want you to Have the scapegoat and the priest who's going to lay hands on the scapegoat and the lamb all that He's not telling us in a new covenant to continue that Because we have

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Christ what it was pointing to amen. Yes however Does God still require blood sacrifice?

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Yes He hasn't changed there still must be justice the goodness of the gospel and the glory of the gospel is

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God's heart hasn't changed in terms of his concern for justice and the demand of blood atonement

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The glory of the gospel is that it was already completed once for all But God hasn't changed in his demands for justice

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Evangelicals today in the West think about God in certain terms of like well you have the Old Testament God Let's be honest kind of wrathful

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Kind of mean just really kind of hard -nosed Just you know really concerned with justice and then along comes

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Jesus in the new covenant Oh, and he's just sort of the loving half of God You know, he's the loving half of God.

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He's just all about grace and mercy and holding little baby lambs Wherever he goes

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He said you have the wrathful God of the Old Testament and the gracious God of the New Testament. That is a lie

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That is such a lie God's wrath and justice are seen supremely in the

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New Testament Because there you see that God is so full of wrath against sin and unrighteousness

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And he's so concerned with upholding his justice that he presents his son as the sacrifice to save his people and the concern about justice from God, he's unchanging is clearly

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Current it's the same. It's it's a present reality Why because every time we go to someone to tell them to repent and believe the gospel

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What are we saying? You're gonna die in your sins if you don't repent and trust in Jesus Why because God is a

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God of justice and he will not leave your sins Unpunished you're either gonna answer for them because God is a just God or Jesus did and How do

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I know repent and believe repent and believe God's concern with justice is

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Premierly displayed in a New Testament. God is still concerned with justice and as has already been said before me, so I won't belabor it

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God does say in his word Isaiah chapter 1 he rejects the worship of his people.

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He rejects their prayers when they sit with blood -stained hands with no concern for Justice when they will not defend the fatherless.

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He says I don't want your prayers. Don't bring them. I'm weary of burden I'm I'm I'm weary of them.

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They're a burden to me God says Religious people who know all the religious works and rituals and everything and they look like they're

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Christian all as well God says don't even bother bringing it to me when all this injustice is surrounding you.

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The issue is justice What does he say? He says cease to do evil learn to do good correct oppression

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Seek justice justice for the fatherless God cares about justice and by the way just for some hope for all of us some hope

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I read it today I quoted it today Isaiah chapter 42 the righteous servant is by the way

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Just so you know Matthew quotes this in his gospel as fulfilled in Jesus Christ So should be there's inspired revelation about the correct interpretation of this passage

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It's quoted in the beginning of Matthew reference to Christ that Jesus has brought this in now in an

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Isaiah chapter 42 Hang on to this verse guys, especially in this fight you're gonna need some encouragement that as tired as you and I get as Discouraged as you and I get in this fight against evil in our culture

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Jesus will not grow faint He will not be weary Until he is established justice in the earth.

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That's a process by the way. It's what he's doing He is saving people and he's establishing justice in the earth

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How does he do it through his bride when we preach the gospel and we win the nation's we disciple people and lo and behold we?

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Teach them to obey Jesus which establishes what? justice Righteousness it grows from the bride of Christ Giving people the waters of life and the light of the gospel and darkness when people see

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Christ. They love his law It's what it says in Isaiah 42. He's not gonna grow faint or weary He's gonna establish justice in the earth and the coastlands wait for his

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Torah his law We are confused about God's desire for justice.

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He hasn't changed. We're confused about God's law I won't belabor this but it's important Matthew chapter 5 17 through 19 the

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Lord Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount was not Was not disregarding the law of God He was given the proper interpretation of the law of God that they were perverting in their day and he says in Matthew 5 17 through 19 in The Greek man on a set date do not even begin to think that I've come to abolish the law of the prophets

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I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. We are confused about God's law

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We think well you come to Jesus to be saved. So, you know, you can live how you want

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You come to Jesus to be saved and God's not concerned with you obeying his law any longer Tell that to the

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Apostles who constantly quote from the law of God and assume It's continuing relevance in a

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New Testament until they tell you This is how God tells you in this administration to view this law

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They assume the goodness of God's law and I'll just say this premierly Romans chapter 3 after the

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Apostle Paul Talks about how the law can justify nobody after he says in Romans 3 28

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We conclude that a man is justified declared righteous by faith apart from the works of the law

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The law can justify nobody. It only shuts your mouth before God it exposes your sin after all of that from inspired apostle

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He says do we then make void the law through faith? What's he say?

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Actually because we're justified by faith we establish the law which law

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The same law he knew as a Jew the law of God Of course, we understand as Christians that there's differences in the application of the law of God the administration of law of God a new

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Covenant, but God's law is still righteous It is still just and we are confused today about God's law as believers and we need to change we need to repent of it

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There is confusion today about the role of the church and the state. This is a big one Hear this because you're gonna get this a lot

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You're gonna hear this a lot. There is confusion today about the role of the church and the state

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We think the church is the spiritual institution the state is over there The church really has nothing to say to the state and the state's not responsible really for obeying

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God Well, here's the challenge. Are you getting that thinking with your Bible or did you get that from the culture?

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Because you know, it's amazing this year. Oh, this verse has been abused more than any text 2020 was the year of the abuse of Romans 13

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It was abused more than any scripture I'm aware of at least on the social media platforms

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I saw Romans 13 more abused than ever we should create t -shirts and say Romans 13.

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We're so sorry Romans 13 what is Romans 13 say

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Paul wrote it under the boot of Rome Rome killed Paul Rome was pagan and Nero was demanding worship

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Nero is killing Christians Nero is burning Christians Nero is marrying a 10 year old little boy

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Castrating him kicking a pregnant woman to death Nero was a beast trying to literally eat people well he's covered in the the the skins of animals and Paul says in Rome under a pagan government that you are to submit to those governing authorities

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Why he says because they are God's deacon God's servants to do what punish evil reward the righteous reward the righteous or to Protect the righteous so you have the duty of the deacon of God the servant of God to do what?

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To punish evil now. Here's what's interesting. Do you think that Paul was describing Rome there?

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Was he being descriptive of what Rome was doing or say what the Chinese government is doing?

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Are they being God's servants? He's being Prescriptive he's giving to you.

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This is the prescribed role of government under God Governments are supposed to be God's servant not the servant of some other

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God The servant of the true God to do what punish evil

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That's the role of the state But I wanted to say this explicitly all authority even over the state and Paul teaches in Romans 13

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Clearly that the state is supposed to be the deacon of God. There's only one God See both are to serve the true

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God. We understand. I don't have to do the debate about the church We understand the church supposed to obey God supposed to obey Jesus No one disputes that but we seem to have a problem understanding that the state is supposed to ultimately obey

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The God of the Bible both are supposed to serve the true God Now one's role the church's role is salvific

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We proclaim the gospel we lead people to Christ we minister. We were humbly serving we're working in the area of sanctification and Transformation with the

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Word of God. The church is a community of grace and mercy Extending the peace of God through the gospel.

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The state's role is not the church's role The state's role is to uphold

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Justice and when the state is not upholding justice because it pities the guilty it is sinning against God The church is supposed to be the merciful agent the agent of grace and mercy

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To the world with the gospel the state is not supposed to behave like the church

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It's supposed to obey God and establish and uphold justice And we're confused this is a massive confusion

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Give you an example of the problem. Okay, just quickly and I'm trying my best not to keep you here So I know it's so late, but here's an example

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Imagine for a second that we were together after this. We're at a restaurant together

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We're all eating and fellowshipping together as the church and all of a sudden this guy comes crashing through the doors

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He's not even wearing a mask He's he comes crashing through the doors.

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He's covered in sweat You know he's just panting and he's frantic and he's holding he's holding like a laptop and Under his arm and you find out that he's just robbed somebody down the street in their home

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And he's stolen some stuff from their house. And now he's trying to hide from the cops Now as Christians, my first instinct is to say have a seat for a second

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I'm gonna tell you what's wrong with your life. You need Christ We're all in this room as believer is supposed to be preaching the gospel to this guy

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You're a sinner in need of salvation. You're a sinner against a holy God. Your problem is just is not just thievery

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It's a whole heart and rebellion to your Creator. You need Christ. Here's who Christ is. Here's what he's done Repent believe the gospel proper.

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Amen. Yes to the thief now He turns to Christ on the spot. He's in tears.

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He's truly repentant. He believes the gospel We're appraising God and hugging this guy and all of a sudden lights

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Outside the outside the restaurant police officers come barreling through that door and they grab this thief and they cuff him

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Would any of us as believers say this? officers You don't understand

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This man has just turned to Christ He's a believer now You have no right to bring him to justice

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Would any of us say that no because we understand the difference and distinction between the church's responsibility to preach the gospel and the

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Responsibility of law enforcement and the magistrate to uphold justice and to uphold victims rights by punishing this person and bringing some form of reconciliation for the crime

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The role of the church in the state is different But the role of the church in the state are both to be under God Okay, the pro -life industries fatal flaw.

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This is This is huge This is everything

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The pro -life industries fatal flaw The pro -life industry will oftentimes

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For PR and for talks and for money They will say we're a

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Christian organization. We uphold Christian values and We're pro -life and they'll say in Christian churches when they're raising money and Lobbying they'll say, you know, we're

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Christian and We're pro -life But there's a fatal flaw and that's that these people in these industries are not

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Operating from a truly Christian perspective with the law of God at their feet and with allegiance to Christ first and foremost

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I'll give you an example of this They say here it is fatal flaw the mother and or the father are themselves victims

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The mother and or father are themselves victims. We want abortion they say to be unthinkable

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We want abortion to be unthinkable. But but the mother and father they're in this they're just they're just victims

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They've been told by the culture that this is okay, you know, these mothers don't even know what they're they're doing

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Now, you know because many you serve outside the abortion mill they know exactly what they're doing

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They tell us they know what they're doing. They say they have the right to kill their own baby

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They'll brag about the fact that they're going into the murder of their child their children Also, I know that there are mother and father mothers and fathers who go in there

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We know this who are weeping all the way in there. Why are they weeping? Because they know what they're doing

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They know what they're doing and brothers and sisters a mother going into an abortion facility knows what she's doing.

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How do I know it? Irrefutably because she's going into an abortion facility She knows what's happening inside of her and she's trying to stop it she knows and The pro -life industries fatal flaw is that the mother and or father are themselves victims

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Let me give you an example of just how Damaging and destructive this is in the state of Arizona right now.

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It has been against the law Arizona statute 13 -3603. It's against the law right now in the state of Arizona to have an abortion

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It has been against the law and it has never been changed It's against the law right now in Arizona to kill your child.

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It has never been changed on the books The law is there. Do you know who told me about this law? Do you know told me

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Kathy Herod the president of Center for Arizona policy in Arizona?

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She loved us She was on my radio show like 10 years ago. She loved us

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Until she found out we were trying to abolish abortion and then she stopped returning my phone calls And then

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I couldn't get a hold of her and finally I did get a hold of her and I tried to encourage her to Come to our stuff we were doing so we could abolish abortion.

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I thought you were pro -life I thought you were trying to end abortion and she told me

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Jeff. I can't get behind what you're doing. Why Kathy? You're a Christian. I'm a Christian. We're trying to end abortion, right? And on the phone call she told me you're calling it murder

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Because that's what Scripture teaches us. I thought we were on the same page Well, you're calling it murder.

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Well, Kathy, that's what the Bible says about killing a human being in an unjustified manner

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I thought you believed that it's fully human. Well, I do I thought you believe this is unjustified. I do well, that's called murder

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Biblically and legally that's murder. So what are we what are we doing? She says Jeff I have too many sisters in Christ that have this in their past.

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I can't do this I can't call it murder and say that women should be punished for for this and So the president of one of the largest

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Christian lobby groups in the state of Arizona is Resisting abolition not on the basis of logic not on the basis of Scripture, but on the basis of emotion on the basis of pity and Brothers and sisters that is pure wickedness and let me tell you more wickedness from this wicked woman

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When we held our rally We're trying to say equal protection for human beings in the womb

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Isn't that what you believe Kathy Herod? Isn't that what you believe pro -life industry in Arizona that this is human from conception.

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They would say amen. Yes human from conception No question there. Is this the unjustified taking of human life?

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Yes, it is Kathy Herod came out while the rally was happening or shortly afterwards saying she can't support anything that wants to punish

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Women for killing their children. She said we believe in the pro -life movement that women are also victims

35:30

So what she did is she decided to now pursue really pursue this new goal of hers

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Here's her pro -life legislation. She doesn't want to go for abolition So she says well, what we're gonna do is put in bills to say you can't kill your baby if it has

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Down syndrome Gee, thanks Say all the other thousands of children slaughtered by abortion

35:55

She's arguing for the same kind of incrementalism in terms of wider hallways cleaner things, whatever the case may be

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But you know what else she's doing? Here's her here's her her her goal right now She wants to do away with current

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Arizona law That criminalizes abortion she wants to erase it from the books the pro -life industry is the greatest enemy

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To justice for preborn children. I told you that she taught me about that bill

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She told me on that phone call when she said she couldn't support we were doing she said Jeff abortion is already against the law

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In the state of Arizona. She told me the statute. I had to go look it up. So I learned it from Kathy Herod She knew years ago that abortions a crime in Arizona and now she's working to make it no longer even on the books as a crime abortion

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Sorry, the pro -life industry is fatal flaw as they see the mother and the father as victims themselves Here's my third point about this.

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This isn't Christian Straight away this isn't Christian Let me give you some biblical text to put underneath you for this so that you have these and we're gonna move on If you go to Nahum Chapter 1.

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I want you to see these I want you to have them You have them in your toolbox as you talk to Christians in terms of the heart of God about justice

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Nahum chapter 1 verse 3 The Lord is slow to anger and great in power and the

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Lord will by no means clear the guilty The Lord will by no means clear the guilty

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His way is in whirlwind and storm in the clouds of the dust of his feet I wanted you to have that text many more like it

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I'm gonna give you a single text to talk about God not clearing the guilty It is against the very character of God to clear the guilty.

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So when We say somebody who was guilty according to God's law is not truly guilty

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We are lying about God and we are lying about them. That's a sin Stop next

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Proverbs 17 15 Proverbs 17 15 he who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the

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Lord he who justifies the wicked don't worry, it's not

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Rona and He who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the

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Lord Now, of course listen, of course, we could take the principle of this and you drive that into the courtroom

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You drive it into the king and the ruler of of that nation or that that precinct?

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You you give this text to them in terms of principles of as a ruler. This is the principle you are not to justify the wicked and you are not to condemn the righteous because both of those things to God are an abomination an abomination

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So when we think about what the pro -life industry is doing By saying a mother can bring her child to an assassin

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Pay the assassin to cut the head off their little boy to gut their child

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To cut the arms and legs off their little boy to crush their body into pieces

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They can do all these things, but they're not wicked. I'm gonna call you a victim

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Mother and father who leads your child to death You're also a victim

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God says that's an abomination you are justifying the wicked You are justifying the wicked and you are guilty of an abomination in the eyes of God so when

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Kathy Harrod as Christian as she may appear with the veneer of Christianity when she says mothers who kill their own children are themselves victims

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She is in the eyes of God committing what is an abomination in God's eyes Justifying the wicked acquitting the wicked that's the principle next

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This is from the law of God and here's a deal. Listen, this is the law of God God spoke these things

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No matter what your perspective is in terms of application for modern society or wherever you're at on this debate

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We have to say something here about these texts. They're in the Word of God Paul says all scripture is they honest us all scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness

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And what we have in these texts is principles about how God Talks to us about justice in society now in Exodus 21

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Exodus 21 22 through 25

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We have the example of it's a case law example of there's a conflict and there's a pregnant woman

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We're not gonna get into all the details today because it's not really the point here But if there's harm, how do you handle that situation?

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It's a case law example in the case law Example from the Mosaic legislation is how the United States government created our case law system.

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It's based upon Moses So again, you're welcome secularists for your system of justice.

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It came from this book But I want you to note that in Exodus chapter 20.

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God says you shall not murder Ratsak is the Hebrew word there and the semantic domain of the word is not merely kill.

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It is murder It's the unjustified taking of human life in the next chapter God tells them what to do if somebody does kill somebody does murder them

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So you shall not murder and if somebody does here's what you're supposed to do to them

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So don't do it. But if they do here is the just penalty and God says this verse 23

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If there is harm Then you should pay life for life eye for eye tooth for tooth hand for hand foot for foot burn for burn wound for wound

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Stripe for stripe. My point today is not to talk about the death penalty. That's not even the issue here What I'm talking about in terms of what

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God says about murder is there must be justice equality Justice equal now to put away any

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Misinterpretations of this passage. No, Jesus did not do away with this passage when he said you've heard that It was said

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I for I tooth for tooth But I say to you he was talking about personal relationships if Jesus repudiated this law

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He would not be the righteous one Because this law is about equal justice Jesus could not be doing away with God's standard for equal justice or he would not be a proper sacrifice for us

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He was talking about how people were abusing this for personal retribution Not for the states.

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They are supposed to deal with equal justice I wanted to give you that verse and now go to Deuteronomy chapter 19 to see it repeated

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But now with a very important caveat in Deuteronomy chapter 19 And this has everything to do with the failures of the pro -life industry

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Exodus 21 explains equal justice life for life. I for I tooth for tooth burn for burn wound for wound

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Exodus, sorry Deuteronomy 19 15 through 21 all of this good today and Repeated in the

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New Testament, by the way Do you know that Paul appeals to these case law examples and this courtroom example in the

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New Testament? When he says receive no accusation against an against an elder unless it's on the basis of two to three witnesses

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Do you know he's quoting from he's quoting for the law of God court stuff? That's post cross post resurrection post ascension.

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So it still matters in a new covenants. He's quoting from here Here's what says a single witness verse 15

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Should not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed

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Only in the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses shall a charge be established So you need two to three independent lines of testimony?

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Before you ever bring accusations and charges against somebody if a milit I love this. Oh our court system would be so So blessed today if we had this

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Watch this God's law is good If a malicious witness arises to accuse a person of wrongdoing

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Then both parties to the dispute shall appear before the Lord before the priests and the judges who are in office in those days

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The judges shall inquire diligently. Hey cross -examination in court. You like that?

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Thank You Moses and If the witness is a false witness and has accused his brother falsely

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Then you shall do to him as he had meant to do to his brother You want to save the courts in America today?

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You tell witnesses you lie You're gonna get whatever that person would have gotten for your lies

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But God's law that's just this big oppressive thing But watch this

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So you shall purge the evil from your midst and the rest shall hear in fear and shall never again

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Commits any such evil among you This is it. This is a command from God your eye shall not pity

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It shall be life for life eye for eye tooth for tooth hand for hand foot for foot

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The pro -life industries fatal flaw here is they commit what God calls an abomination they justify the wicked and They pity the person who is guilty of the crime

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Rather than seeing that person as an object of the gospel with a call Necessary to repentance and belief in Jesus Christ for salvation.

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They acquit the wicked and the guilty They say no, honey. You're not guilty for murdering your child.

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You're a victim yourself They're acquitting the guilty and they are pitying the wrongdoer

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God says in the issue of justice for the court system and for us in principle You are not to pity the person who is deserving of justice

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That's not to say you can't love them That's not to say as a Christian not to be merciful to them There are

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J there are ministries for the jails galore where Christians go into the jail systems to preach the gospel and to love these people and point

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Them to Jesus but in terms of what they are guilty of God commands us don't pity Do not pity that person

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For what they've done, but I want to point you to one more text Exodus 22 go back again and This is a word

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This is a word to the pro -life industry When they perpetrate and perpetuate injustice upon fatherless children innocent image -bearers of God Exodus 22 21

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You shall not wrong a sojourner oppress him for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt. You shall not mistreat any widow or fatherless child

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You should not mistreat any widow or fatherless child if you do mistreat them and They cry out to me

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I will surely hear their cry and My wrath will burn and I will kill you with the sword and your wives shall become widows and your children fatherless

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God is immutable God is unchanging and When God speaks about injustice in this day

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Here's what he says to his people if you mistreat these fatherless children when I hear their cry

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I'm gonna respond by killing you God's unchanging You see we don't like that in evangelicalism and today.

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We've got this happy surfer Jesus with the lamb sweet and lowly is he? Ignoring all the passages in Scripture about God literally destroying nations and erasing them and killing them

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God says you oppress these fatherless children. I'll make your children fatherless God's concerned with justice.

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He hasn't changed He hasn't changed now quickly replying to their claims, so the fatal flaw is the abomination of acquitting the guilty

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That abomination having pity for the person who's guilty of the crime There's the fatal flaw the pro -life movement from a

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Christian perspective But we need to respond to some of their claims when they say She's a victim.

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She's a victim Well brothers and sisters We've been indoctrinated Here's proof.

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Are you ready? I'm almost done truly. I'm gonna run through these fast, but you got to hear this We don't talk this way about other evils and injustices

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This is proof. It is proof That we've been indoctrinated the pro -life industry has been indoctrinated

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We've been indoctrinated because we don't talk this way about other evils and injustices. Can I give you a parallel here real fast?

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Let's see if this works in terms of the same argumentation quote We want sex trafficking to be unthinkable

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But we don't want to punish the pimps and the kidnappers and the abusers

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They're just victims themselves of their environment Would anybody accept that bootleg reasoning in the case of sex trafficking or slavery?

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Isn't it interesting how we have accepted it we've learned to accept it from the pro -life industry about mothers and fathers

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Slaughtering their own children and we say no. No, honey. You're not guilty also

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Responding to the claim of the pro -life industry that the mother or father and or father is a victim themselves

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Here's what it means for the gospel There is no gospel for them on That issue my church is filled with women who have had not just one abortion some of the multiple abortions

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You know how they talk about it. They talk about how they murdered their own child one day And now they've received the grace of God in Jesus Christ.

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They've been forgiven. They are loved in our church They are not condemned. They are as righteous in Jesus as any one of us, but they don't lie about their guilt

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Because they came to Jesus for freedom from their guilt and their shame the pro -life

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Industry and lobby is lying to these women to the degree and the detriment of their own souls

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Because it says to them honey, you don't need to feel any guilt and shame over that. You're also a victim so what does that mean no gospel for them there and then they turn around at times and They tell them honey, it's okay.

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You can you can be forgiven of this. But wait a minute if she's a victim There's nothing to be forgiven of Victims are innocent.

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You don't tell victims to come to God for forgiveness because they are victims

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That means that the pro -life industry has robbed the mothers who have killed their children of the gospel

51:45

Don't you see this is a gospel issue When you see a perversion of the gospel in Mormonism or in the

51:52

Watchtower or in any other religion you as a believer know that you have to before God be faithful and call out the

51:59

Inconsistency because people's souls are at stake when the pro -life industry lies to these women and it tells them that they are victims

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That means that they are robbing them of the hope of the gospel It needs to be called out.

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No gospel. No hope in the pro -life industry for women. There is no Jesus Atonement for them because they're victims.

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They're not guilty Also when the pro -life industry says that they're victims

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That means contrary to their profession They don't really believe that it's fully human from conception

52:34

When they say that mothers and fathers who kill their children are victims They are giving the admission that they do not really believe that it's fully human from conception

52:45

Otherwise you would want equal justice if It's fully human at conception as the pro -life industry argues

52:53

Then what's the difference of a mother drowning her six? Year old child in the bathtub and a mother taking her three month old in the womb to be killed

53:05

Because if you ask these pro -life leaders Hey that woman who pulled her car over turned around and shot her children in the chest with a gun

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Should she be punished or she a victim they'll all say she's she's guilty She should be punished

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The mother who brings her three or four month old baby in the womb To an assassin to be chopped into pieces.

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Is she a victim or is she guilty? She's a victim, sweetie You see they don't really believe that what's in the womb is fully human at conception

53:37

Otherwise, they would want equal protection meaning anybody that kills a human in an unjustified manner is guilty

53:45

They're guilty They don't really believe it's fully human. Also. Here's what they're admitting

53:52

They have no meaningful intention to end it but They'll still take your money.

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They'll still take your money pretending to They will still take your money pretending to I want to read you this

54:09

I actually have been trying to interact a bit with Kathy Harrod praying for her repentance

54:15

Praying that God would change her heart. I don't need her to change her heart. I'm worried about her soul. I Don't need her to change her heart for Jesus to establish justice

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I'm worried about her soul. My job as a pastor is to call out sin where I see it like this

54:30

I'm not called to be nice to a wicked woman like Kathy Harrod Who's resisting the bill to abolish abortion in the state of Arizona and calling other legislators to resist the bill?

54:45

Those fighting for abolition and criminalization are truly pro -life They're the ones for life

54:52

The pro -life industry is not Just consider what the pro -life industry considers a victory number one cleaner abortion facilities to kill humans in Number two you can kill humans.

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You just have to give them the dignity of a proper burial Number three you can kill babies.

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Just don't use sharp instruments Number four you can kill babies just not the ones with Down syndrome

55:21

Number five you can kill babies, but you have to let the mom see an ultrasound before she does

55:27

Number six you can kill babies But not after 21 weeks

55:34

Now I want to ask you as you consider these pro -life victory legislative moves

55:40

Do you know they give themselves high -fives and praises when they do this They truly do they actually they actually write they send emails to their supporters.

55:50

Look what we did Look what we did. You gave us money and We put a bill in that says that you you have to give the baby a proper burial

56:03

What a victory Kill your babies in this state, but at least give them a burial

56:10

They think that this is victory And they're the ones writing this garbage

56:16

Now let's consider a parallel Ask if you'd accept this reasoning

56:27

Number one you can sex traffic girls, but not if they're under 14

56:34

You can maim your slaves But you just can't use a sharp object to do it

56:41

Number three you can enslave black people But not if they're handicapped

56:47

Number four you can kidnap and enslave girls for sex trafficking But your facilities must be up to code

56:55

Do you see it yet? Do you see it yet?

57:03

Do you see the problem? This is not victory This is deception

57:10

This is inconsistency This is ungodly. It's un -christian and the pro -life industry has bought a lie themselves

57:19

And they themselves have been deceived to believe that this is any kind of victory or justice for preborn children.

57:25

It is not I'm going to tell you About the meeting that I had in the

57:32

Capitol with pro -life leaders in the state of Arizona told you one part of the story today I'm sitting there with representative

57:39

Walt Blackman. He is a courageous strong Black man, he loves to say that his name is

57:47

Blackman, and he is a strong black man. I love him He is so courageous. He doesn't care.

57:53

He's doing what's right. He doesn't care and I'm sitting next to him.

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I'm trying to win this room of lovely ladies who know That what

58:05

I'm saying is true, and they just had questions. How do we work it out? How do we how do we do this?

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Is there any other way? I would let them ask their question then I would try to just challenge them I'd say well, could you think about it this way?

58:18

One of the women when she came in we left together. She said Jeff I didn't think that this was gonna happen like this.

58:23

I said, what do you mean? She said well, I watch you all the time I've been to your church like two or three times and I didn't expect this to go this way

58:29

I said, what do you think I was in a fight with you or something? She goes no, I've seen you I know you're not gonna do that. She said

58:35

I didn't expect to leave here agreeing with you. So win them. That's your mission field

58:41

Win them, but I want you to hear this part of the story the pro -life Strategist in Arizona is sitting in the back.

58:48

He was the one that was trying to resist what was being said He was trying to convince people not to support this bill He was the one that said that he agreed with was in the bill.

58:55

He said he agreed it was human He believed that it was unjustified taking of human life that it was murder And he said this is just not the place to have this conversation have it in your

59:03

Bible studies your small groups This is not the place So I said so you agree with everything in there.

59:08

It's all true. He said yes, but you're not going to support it. No So Walt at this point starts getting kind of upset

59:16

He starts getting kind of upset So Walt actually goes all in After I said

59:29

To him why not he said because this won't work. It's gonna be challenged by the courts

59:35

We've got to find bills that are just more workable that we think might actually have the ability to pass and work

59:41

I said so it sounds like the difference between the two of us is you're working based upon what you think is

59:46

Pragmatic and I'm working on the basis of principle. It's pragmatism versus principle

59:53

Now he was frustrated by that and he says well the courts the courts I said we defy the courts right now our last election had a thing in the election election thing where you can vote for legalization of recreational marijuana

01:00:07

It's legal now Recreationally in Arizona has medicinally for years. It's recreational now, baby

01:00:13

You can smoke up Arizona smells like pot constantly now But what what's the deal?

01:00:19

What's the problem? There is federal law Against marijuana and court cases against marijuana

01:00:25

It is federally against the law and our state says to the federal government and the courts go pound sand

01:00:33

For the sake of their citizens. I said we've got the courage to do it for smoking pot But not for defending these children.

01:00:39

Don't talk to me about pragmatism. This is a problem of courage It's a problem of courage not what will work in the courts now

01:00:47

Walt's getting fired up at this point and Walt's a strong black man He truly is so he said 1 ,800 black babies died today

01:01:00

He said my people black people Have experienced a genocide this last generation

01:01:07

My generation has been wiped out because of this he was right

01:01:13

He said I don't want to talk about what's pragmatic I want to talk about what's right and I'm gonna stop the slaughter of all children

01:01:20

Tomorrow he goes so you tell me he goes you're the strategist You don't want to pass this bill that you say you agree with So tell me what the strategy is.

01:01:29

I want to stop killing babies tomorrow. What's the strategy and the truth before God in heaven?

01:01:36

this strategist Does this that was his response?

01:01:46

So fight against the bill that establishes justice that he knows is right And when this representative says to him, so tell me the strategy

01:01:54

What do we do to stop the killing of children tomorrow in Arizona? His response was? You know what that shows the pro -life industry has no goal of ending

01:02:07

Abortion stop sending them your money Stop supporting them call them out for their inconsistencies be loving be gracious be humble

01:02:18

But call them out and call them to repentance. I Remind you as difficult as the days ahead may be in this fight to establish

01:02:28

Justice for preborn children and bring equal protection for all human life Remember that we serve the righteous one who will establish justice on the earth and he's not going to be faint or weary So when you feel weary when you feel faint and you feel discouraged you need to do what