Can You Know Someone is a False Convert? (Answering this and other email questions)

Hey guys it's Keith Foskey. Well it's the afternoon on a Saturday and I had some time so I stepped over to the studio to do something

I haven't done in a while and that's answer some emails from the mailbag. I get emails all the time and I want

I want you to know I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful for people sending me messages especially when they're heartfelt whether they're encouraging messages sometimes though they have important questions and I want to address some of those questions online that I think would be beneficial for other people.

Sometimes the questions are very personal and and they're not something that would be good for a mass audience but I've chosen a few emails that I've gotten over the last few months that I think might be beneficial to a larger audience and I want to encourage you if you want to send me an email please do.

You can go to KeithFoskey .com there's an email place it goes right to me

I try to read and respond as soon as I can. Now I will say some of these emails it's taken me a little while to get to and if you sent these emails in and you're like man

I sent this so long ago I don't get to do this a lot it's just a matter I do a lot of interviews obviously ministry to the local church

Sovereign Grace Family Church is the most important thing in my life outside of my family and so and then you know there's there's life family ministry and then podcasting and then you know

I spend a lot of my evenings late at night you know responding to emails. So I'm responding to these emails now even though some of them are a little late hopefully the questions are still relevant to the people who sent them.

Also speaking of sending things I want to mention this tie that I'm wearing tonight. I normally don't wear a tie just to come out to the studio but I wanted to wear this tie because a friend of mine online sent me this tie and I was very grateful.

You guys know I love ties I enjoy different kinds of ties all different kinds of cool ties and this is a hot pepper tie so a little spicy tonight

I thought it would be fun. Alright so there's four emails I'm going to address I'm going to try to address the answers kind of quickly just because I don't want this to be an hour -long video

I just wanted to get on here and put together a short video and send it out to you all and maybe have a word of encouragement for you.

So the first one again oh also when I do this I don't normally mention names so if you send an email and you want it to be on the show if you want me to answer it on video put that in the email say hey

I'd like for you to answer this on the mailbag episode. Also don't tell me specifically if you don't want me to use your name because I normally don't anyway but you know just in case

I might accidentally say it I try to edit edit any of that out if if you don't want me to and specifically

I'm going to try not to say any names today just for the sake of some of this has to deal with interchurch politics and stuff and questions it might not be good to mention.

So this comes in it says I'm involved in evangelism and apologetics for many years and I have to confess it seems more and more like that my mission field is in the church as opposed to just the cults

Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses and others I love your denominational meeting series they really do help me laugh at myself and other

Christians thank you very much for saying that I'd love to hear and see some videos or discussions to help

Christians know when to witness to false converts sometimes even in the church versus discipling immature believers and how to tell the difference it's not always as easy as some think small group studies can help in this area however not everyone attends these regularly so who's who and he references 2nd

Corinthians 13 which tells us to examine ourselves so this is a this is a very important question and it comes to the issue of discerning the salvation of other believers other professing believers and to be quite honest with you it's a very difficult thing and I'm not even certain that it's always something that we should be doing unless we find ourselves in a condition of being as my friend likes to say one of my fellow elders a president of the

Sin Sniffers Association you know just always looking for something to call into question someone's fidelity to Christ we don't want to be doing that but there are some indicators that would that would come up number one if somebody tells me they're a believer and I may or may not have questions about their their salvation

I'll ask them to explain the gospel to me and that that's sometimes a big big step if somebody doesn't understand the gospel if they now

I'm not saying they have to be able to articulate it like an evangelist or like a pastor but if somebody can't say what

Christ has done for them then I think that's a that's a big indicator that they they need some real deep discipling and so that's a question

I always start with how has Christ changed your life what has Christ done for you and listen to what they say listen carefully to what they say try to see what their answers are and that's that's a big step also understand this when the

Bible says go and make disciples baptizing them in the name of the Father Son the Holy Spirit we are in the process of making disciples always whether it's you know the initial act of bringing them the gospel or helping them to grow in their faith through sanctification so that's a work that's constantly being done and I always try to assume if somebody is professing to be a believer in Christ that they are legitimate and so I treat them as such and I just build them up in their faith and try to help them to grow if it becomes painfully obvious that they're not a believer based upon things that they're saying or based upon a particular issue in their lifestyle

I'll bring that up to them you know if they're living in habitual unrepentant sin and there's no evidence of fruit in their life

I might point that out to them but otherwise I'm going to assume they're believer if they profess to be a believer until such time as they prove me or at least prove themselves to not be genuine in fact

I'm preaching on this tomorrow I'm recording this on Saturday July the 20th tomorrow I'm preaching on what false repentance looks like and we're going to look at Judas Iscariot specifically as one of the ones who was a case study in remorse without repentance and so those are those are some things that I would look for and again

I would be careful not to make myself responsible for determining people's salvation but rather I want to be responsible for helping people who claim to be

Christians to know the Word of God better and to know the Christ that they profess better and like I said there may be there may come a point where I have to point out hey there's there's a lot of there's a lot in your life that's inconsistent with a believer but that's going to take some time getting to know them and I'm going to be very cautious in in making that a point to bring up okay so that brings me to the next question hello brother

Keith thank you for your ministry I very much appreciate your videos and find them edifying and hilarious thank you for that in your previous episode responding to various emails you said you would not allow someone who is under church discipline to partake in communion with your congregation what would you say to someone who was placed under church discipline in another body however it was not done in a biblical manner for example the steps of Matthew 18 were not performed there was insufficient witnesses or the elders are being legalistic or abusive how would you counsel someone who was wrongfully disciplined by another church who is seeking to begin fellowship with a new church this this is a great question and I want to thank the person who sent it in tremendous question and I hope that the way

I answer this makes sense because this is something we have had to deal with as church to be quite honest with you we've we have looked at this issue and had to face it head -on so let me tell you kind of the steps that we took if a person comes to our church under discipline from another church and they claim that the previous church was in error our first initial thought is we need to meet with the previous leadership and we make a point to do that we want to know their side of the story the

Bible says that if a man comes and tells his story he seems right until someone comes along and corrects him and so the person coming saying oh man

I was wronged by you know this church and this church put me under discipline but they didn't do it right and and and I've been

I've been framed kind of thing then the elders have the responsibility to to talk to the leadership of the previous church now here it that's in there and is going to go to one of two ways either the person who when you say that say well give me the information for your previous pastor so I can reach out to them if he says oh no you can't talk to him and you take my word for it that's a that's a red flag right there that's gonna be like a man you know if you if you're not willing to at least let us look into this then we're we may not be willing to receive you into fellowship because that's a big issue and also and you're also asking about communion we allow people to take communion unless they're under discipline from another church and we say that before you're able to take communion with us that you should seek reconciliation with your previous church so that would be the first step in seeking reconciliation now there may come a time where there would be an issue of discipline that we wouldn't agree with but the the previous church held to like for instance maybe on an issue of marriage where there was discipline over divorce where the previous church held to a permanency view and maybe we hold to a view that would allow for divorce in certain cases such as adultery or abandonment as it stated in the

Westminster Confession that would be a little more difficult because they're legitimately under discipline from a previous church but they're holding to a doctrine that we don't agree with and so we would again meet with their elders we would talk about the position and and that may that may be a time where a certain form of reconciliation could happen with the previous church if they understood that this person wanted to try to continue to live their

Christian life but have a difference in doctrine similar to the way a person might leave a church over you know the issue of the proper candidate for baptism that might be an issue where somebody leaves a church and goes to another church and the previous church says well you know we're not we're not going to change our doctrine for you but we understand you're holding to a different doctrine and and and I know that I know somebody's gonna leave a comment say oh it's a vastly different situation it is and and so this isn't easy discipline is always based on some type of issues of sin whether it's a sin of the person who's committed the sin or heavy -handedness among the leadership this is always ugly there's never a time when this isn't this is never good it's never something positive but I but that but you asked the question what would we do or what would we say we would say we want to seek reconciliation with previous church if it's possible if it comes to find out that the previous church is an error or repentance has been made in the previous church hasn't received that repentance and that could be then we would probably say you know what at this point we have to we have to make a decision moving forward with this person on our side and and you'd be surprised this has happened a few times and it's never easy it's always it's always a bit of an investigation and the elders are we're responsible for what happens at our church we're not responsible to investigate what happened at the previous church we have to sort of take take it for granted that that the stories we're getting are true we're not going to go and investigate witnesses and and and call people we're gonna talk to the pastor of the previous church we're gonna talk to the person under discipline and we're gonna have to come to a conclusion and we're gonna stand before God and give an account for how we how we manage things at our church and by God's grace that's all we can do so not a different not not an easy situation certainly difficult but that's that's the way we would have to do it we'd have to talk to both sides and come to a conclusion as to whether or not but but but the ultimate the ultimate goal would that would be to say hey is there a possibility for reconciliation what what does the church want to see from this person is it that is as I've been preaching in 2nd

Corinthians there there are there are seven marks of genuine repentance has the person repented and demonstrated these things and those are found in 2nd

Corinthians chapter 7 verse 11 I preached going on three sermons about this and my third one will be tomorrow and so if the person's demonstrated repentance and the church hasn't received the repentance that could be a whole issue in and of itself and so all of these things have to be considered this is the real nuts and bolts of pastoring and and and leading a local church and managing a local church within the context of other local churches nearby that you're trying to support and encourage so thank you for a very very serious question and I appreciate the the thought behind it it's not easy all right third thing we're getting moving moving right along we're at 14 minutes so we're gonna keep going pastor

Keith I really appreciate your ministry I often listen to your podcasts and videos while working thank you very much for that quick question for the mailbag

I grew up in an IFB church not KJVO and since then God saved me into his holy church the

PCA hashtag superior theology that's funny I love it on the issue of KJVO why isn't it considered heresy and yes

I understand the implications of that word doesn't the KJVO position deny plenary inspiration by implying that the original

Hebrew and Greek texts were insufficiently inspired similar to those who deny biblical inspiration altogether like Mormonism by placing human interpretation and translation above divine revelation doesn't

King James only add adherence align with those prioritizing human reason over the

Bible I'm trying to read this sorry how is the KJVO stance not heretical as it functionally denies plenary inspiration

I'm not sure I agree that it does and this is where you you and I having a conversation you might help me understand a little bit more why you think they would be denying plenary inspiration

I get what you're saying is they're saying that the the Greek and the Hebrew are insufficient we need this

English translation but I think that would be a very niche King James only argument

I don't think many are making that argument I think what a lot of them are saying is the King James version is the best translation of the best manuscripts of the

Greek and Hebrew now I don't agree with that but that's the argument they're making they're just like recently

I had a young man on my show many of you saw it and he just you know he thinks this is the best translation of the best manuscripts okay then that's not denying plenary inspiration that's just him saying he thinks this is the best of the best okay

I disagree I find that argument doesn't move me but at the same time

I certainly wouldn't call him a heretic the only time I see King James only ism becoming heresy in the in the in the in the term or in the in the in the proper use of the term is when someone would make adherence to King James only ism a mark of salvation and there are guys who do that they say if you don't hold to the

King James Bible if you didn't get saved through the King James Bible if you don't read from the King James Bible then you're not saved just like you know one particular person

I heard in a discussion once said if you didn't hear the gospel being preached to you through the

King James Bible then you didn't hear the gospel because that's the Word of God and hearing comes by that faith comes by hearing hearing by the

Word of Christ you didn't hear the words of Christ therefore you didn't get saved that's dangerous to me that is a level that I think is is close to heresy if not heretical because that's saying that the the

King James only is necessary for someone to be saved and then and then you say well what about those people who don't speak

English and then they say well and there are those who say again

I'm talking about the very very fringe who would say well they need to learn English if they want to study the

Word of God that may be kind of what you're dealing with here with the plenary inspiration saying well they they're denying the inspiration of the

Greek and Hebrew the I think those are they're out there and I think they're there it can be heretical but I don't think those are the norm

I think I think most most King James only advocates are are what we would say in general our

King James priority or King James preferred I don't think most of them are advocating what a lot of the really really difficult arguments are when

I say difficult I mean difficult in the sense that they are arguments that are difficult for people to even understand when they want to talk about things like the textual variations and things like that most people don't get it get that deep they just a lot of people grew up the

King James only or they're taught the King James is the Word of God or they're shown places where the NIV departs from the

King James and they say see here's where the NIV gets it wrong and therefore the King James is right unfortunately making the

King James a priority at that point making the King James the standard which is not good it's not right I don't know that it's heresy

I think it's wrong I think it's a secondary issue I think you can be wrong on that and not be and not be in a in a in a state of where you're where you're in heresy because again heresy is is very specific and you know that when you mention it in here you know that's a there's implications to the word heresy

Harris people who teach heresy are false teachers on in the with the big

F you know big F false teachers and are leading people to hell and so we have to be careful with that I think it

I think it can become that I think I would be I would be willing to say there are a few people that go into that but in general most not and the argument you're citing here is would only apply to a small fraction of the people that I've dealt with personally who are

King James only advocates now what's funny is I'm not willing to call them heretics but many of them are willing to call me a heretic whether it's because I'm a

Calvinist or because I read from a Bible that's not the King James or because I believe in things like you know covenant a form of Covenant theology versus dispensationalism many

King James only us are willing to call me a heretic however I'm not willing to do the same unless I hear them preach specific heresies or they are saying that you can't be saved at all unless you use the

King James Bible I think that's dangerous and I think that borderlines on heresy that's my thoughts all right final one and we are at the 20 minute mark so let's let's try to wrap this up here now this one is

I did respond to this email I gave a short answer because the question off you're hearing a little noise in background that's my window unit sorry it's raining outside it's a little noisy outside trying to make it sound as best

I can I told him I was going to add this to the mailbag but in the meantime

I gave him a short answer so this is a little I'm gonna go a little deeper into this answer the question was he grew up he and his wife grew up in IFB Church they loved it they were overwhelmed with legalism and conservatism that was very very legalistic however since being married and taking on a spiritual leadership role the

Bible calls me to have I want to list to you things that I no longer hold and I want to know if I should leave the church

I'm trying to paraphrase this so apologize I apologize if it's not coming out really well so ultimately this is a person who is in a church he's been in the church for for 23 years and he wants to know if it's time to leave based on these things number one his views on alcohol music tattoos and smoking has changed okay really really get reform there sounds like feels like his pastors are failing in discipleship okay that's that's important he now holds all five points of Calvinism not something that's easy to do in IFB Church he says that he and his wife feel shunned after failing to do the ministries that they were doing before moving

I guess further away from the church I don't know if that's physically or spiritually and he doesn't believe in KJV only ism anymore okay the five reasons why he thinks his pastors aren't really taking him seriously anymore he's not getting disciplined from the church but he's also feeling shunned by the church and you know he's he's concerned about this and and he's he did say you know small town thing so it's not like he's got a lot of options for churches they does have an option

I think he says in a previous another email that he sent they does have an option to go to he wants if it's time to go elsewhere he says if you feel like your views will keep you from growth and ministry opportunities is it time to leave and go elsewhere you know do you leave without talking to your pastors first let me let me get to that never leave a church without talking to your pastor first even if it's hard even if you don't like what your pastor says

I'm saying this is a pastor with 18 years of experience the times where it has hurt the most is when

I knew the least because I minister with people alongside people and two people for years and then they they stop showing up at church they don't answer their phone and all

I receive is an email saying we've decided to go to another church I reach out to them I say hey is there any way we can sit down and talk

I don't want to talk I don't have anything else to say I've decided to leave as a pastor I'm not saying

I'm not saying I'm owed anything I'm not saying that I deserve an answer but it would it would certainly help to close that to close the gap in my mind if someone would just say hey here's the issue

I have and even if it were something like this even if there are five doctrinal things and these are all the things

I disagree with you on and I just can't walk with you anymore hey you know if two can't walk together unless they'd be agreed you want to go somewhere else that's fine but this is it would be nice to know so I'll say on behalf of your pastors if you leave

I hope you let them know certainly and I think

I said that in my you know I said that in my in my email is please talk to your pastors first second thing is all these things you mentioned are pretty serious and they're times to leave churches and this is where I'm going to try to draw this video to a close

I am generally the one who would say if you're in a church that's preaching the gospel if you're in a church that loves

Jesus and loves you and loves the Bible it's worth fighting for it's worth staying in it's worth even if it's not everything you want in a church it's worth staying rather than leaving because we don't want to become those who just simply hop from lily pad to lily pad we want to be someone who not only builds roots in a church but also or lays down roots in a church but also helps the church build and grow so if you can do that that's what

I encourage you to do but that doesn't mean that that can always happen there are times where it's time to look for a church that is more in keeping with your theology more in keeping with what you need spiritually and and and this is

I often get this I'll have people come to me and say I'm in a church I'm you know I no longer hold to the doctrines that the church holds to I no longer believe the things that the church believes on on these issues it's usually not a gospel issue but it's some pretty important secondary issues and what do you think

I should do there are times where I've counseled people to say hey it might be time to meet with your pastor let him know your convictions have changed and it's time to move on and that's okay as long as it's done in a godly way it doesn't have to be done subversively it doesn't have to be done sneaky it doesn't have to be done in a way that that is you know under underneath everything it can be done in a godly way and I encourage people to do that love one another and love the pastor love you love the elders and again

I'm speaking of generalities obviously there's been abuse or things like that or there's been mistreatment there might be some exceptions to any rule but in general if you can go to your pastor and talk to him and let him know what's going on that's best and I would say the areas here it's going to be hard for you to continue in a church that you're in because quite frankly you the secondary issues of you know

King James only ism of Calvinism which you know I know some would argue that's a primary issue but just just the basics here for you know the secondary issues of of things like you know the question of alcohol and what music you can listen to and you know whether or not you want to enjoy a cigar

I know I have a family member who is in a very very conservative church and she jokingly says if it weren't for drinking and smoking their pastors wouldn't have anything to say and she's joking about the fact that there's a you know sometimes that's all you ever hear and so you know that that might be something that is an issue because it's just you know it's just not very helpful if you hold a different view and that's all you're ever hearing is it is someone who is basically saying you're wrong you're wrong you're wrong and so I would say there are times to leave but there's a right way in a wrong way and the the worst way

I can think of is just to just ghost the people that you've ministered especially when you've been here this long so please take that advice anybody who's out there who's thinking of leaving your church over us over a doctrinal issue that is a genuine issue please consider that it's so important to to continue loving people even if you leave and I'll end with this as I as I close there's a there's a there's a meme going around and I've mentioned this before on the show but I know we always got new listeners so I'll mention it again there's a meme that goes that's going around and the meme says you know just because you leave a church doesn't mean we can't be friends anymore you weren't in a gang

I get the spirit of the meme I really do and there is some truth to it just because a person leaves my church doesn't mean

I don't love them anymore doesn't mean I don't want to be friends with them anymore but there will be a difference when a person leaves the church in in regard to my ministry to them if I'm their pastor and they leave the church they're no longer in covenant with our church as one of the people that I'm responsible for spiritually that doesn't mean

I don't love them doesn't mean if they're if they have a crisis or something that I wouldn't go to them and help them but it does change the situation of relationship and so if the person is in the future if they have a problem and they call me my first question is going to be why aren't you talking to your pastor that you're with and you know because that's what you've you've moved to a new pastor you've moved to a new church and I wouldn't say that in a way that was meant to be in any way negative or ugly

I would say you know you this is this is you're now under their responsibility and and so when you leave a church it does affect your relationship with the pastor and the elders in regard to their responsibility to shepherd you you know the

Bible says to the elders to shepherd the flock of God shepherd the flock of God that is among you and so when a person goes out they're no longer among us and the relationship does change so that's just just some thoughts on leaving a church it's never something that I encourage people to do unless it's necessary in this case

I think it might be necessary and I know it's been several weeks and maybe you've thought more about it maybe you've come to some other conclusions maybe this won't help you because maybe you've already moved on but I hope my email back to you helped you and I hope that anybody else hears this that it's an encouragement to them so how do you how do you deal with how do you get involved with this how do you be part of the mailbag well if you want to email me email me at Adam go to Keith Foskey comm there's a place right on the front page to email me and I try to read and answer every email

I get the more and more the pot of the podcast reaches people the less and less I'm able to give to every email so I have a new rule and this rule has been in standing now for a couple months and it's working

I tried to only respond with three sentences if I can get my answer in three sentences I try to do that sometimes

I just point you to a resource sometimes I point you to a sermon that I preached or something to answer your question because I'm getting a lot of emails and that's about the as best as I can do but if you have something that you think would help other people a question that you think might be beneficial to others put that in the email and I'll know that this might be something worth doing on video so I hope that this video has been helpful

I hope that this is an encouragement to you and I hope this episode the mailbag is one that you'll share with other people because that's how the channel gets recognized and since I mentioned the channel let me finish with this if you haven't subscribed please subscribe and if you like this video hit the thumbs up button if you didn't like it hit the thumbs down button twice as always and lastly and maybe most importantly we now have a way that you can support the channel that's new we've always had buy me a coffee which is nice buy me a coffee comm slash your

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I hope you have a great Saturday and remember Sunday morning is a Saturday night decision so if you're watching this on Saturday night be getting ready for Sunday morning because tomorrow is the

Lord's Day and it's the day we gather with the Saints so I encourage you to be with your church to enjoy worship and to praise the