Jeff Durbin: Sola Scriptura & Rome Pt. 2

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Jeff Durbin: Sola Scriptura & Rome Pt. 3 | Biblical Support

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If you would open your Bibles to the Gospel according to Matthew. Matthew chapter 15.

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We'll be starting in verse 1. Matthew 15, verse 1.

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Hear now the word of the living and the true God. Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said,

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Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.

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He answered them, And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

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For God commanded, Honor your father and your mother, And whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.

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But you say, If anyone tells his father or his mother, What you would have gained from me is given to God.

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He need not honor his father. So, for the sake of your tradition,

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You have made void the word of God. You hypocrites!

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Well did Isaiah prophesy of you when he said, This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

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In vain do they worship me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

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Thus far is the reading of God's holy and inspired word. Let's pray together as his people. Father, we come before you thankful for your word.

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This is your inspired revelation. Lord, we come before you as your children recognizing

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God that you have spoken. You speak, of course, God through the natural order.

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You've made yourself known to every single image bearer of God. Your speech has been understood.

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The problem is sin and suppression of truth. You've spoken through your prophets in history,

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Through your mighty acts and your wonders. Lord, you've written your word into stone tablets.

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You've revealed yourself. You've given your revelation. Lord, you've spoken ultimately,

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Lord Jesus, in the incarnation. You walked among us. And we recognize,

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God, that this is your very word, breathed out by you, recorded for us.

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And we recognize that it's a gift. Lord, you don't owe us anything in ourselves but justice.

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And yet you've given us your grace. We have peace with you. And we have the gift of your word.

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So we pray today as we talk about the ultimacy of your word, the supremacy of your word, the rule of faith, the scriptures.

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We pray that you would teach by your spirit, guide, speak through the teacher today.

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May I decrease and may Christ increase. In Jesus' name, amen. So we're in this little side series right now, trying to engage with some essential foundational biblical truths that really relate to far more than the disputes we have as reformed folks or evangelical

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Christians or Protestants against Rome. Really what we're talking about,

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I want you to just grab hold of this. When we talk about Sola Scriptura, this is not simply a dispute between us and Rome.

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This issue is the issue in terms of how do you know? Where is your certainty found?

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How do you know anything at all? How can you be confident that this is true and this is not true?

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I'm talking about all of life. Again, not just in the dispute you have and I have with our

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Roman Catholic friends and family. Not just in the dispute we have when we go out there into the streets of Mesa to engage with the

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Latter -day Saints and the Mormons. This has to do with all of our lives. It has to do with you and I and how we deal with tragedy.

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The loss of a child. The loss of a parent. That kind of moment of tribulation and trial, this answers that as well.

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How do you deal with that? How do you minister at the bedside of the person who just lost their baby?

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Do you do it as a motivational speaker? Do you just try to give nice platitudes?

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Do you just try to offer some encouragement? The glass half full kind of talk? Or do you minister at the bedside with the very words of God?

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This is where your hope is anchored. This is the truth. This is our confidence. When you're starting a business, there's lots of really great advice out there.

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There are professional entrepreneurs and businessmen who write some amazing things. You can learn from them.

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But what you learn from them in terms of principle as that's true and effective, you will ultimately come and see that it's because those principles were first and foremost in the

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Word of God. That's how God built the world. This is how it works. And so you can have something that's a lesser standard, but it's fallible.

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You can learn in the world of business and say, well, I'm going to learn from these guys because they're pros at this.

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They've shown themselves to be good at this. But in the end, how do you actually build your business? What will you do in terms of transactions with others?

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Will you lie? Will you cheat? Will you steal? And if you won't, why don't you?

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Why don't you? Where's your certainty found? Or in our relationships, brothers and sisters, in terms of this being a broader discussion than us versus Roman Catholicism and the teachings of the

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Christian Church versus where Rome is today. This has to do with our life together in the body. How we live with one another.

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How do we overcome challenges and sin and broken relationships in our midst?

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How do we deal with that? On what basis do we actually claim something when there is a challenge within our own body and fellowship?

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How do we navigate trials and tribulations together? Where's our certainty found? How do you know?

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Or when we go out there into the public square and we engage, say, in moderated public debate with atheists in Utah, which we did last year.

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When we engage in that kind of debate, do we approach it with neutrality? Do we approach it pretending like, well, we really don't know, and so let's see where the evidence leads us.

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Let's just use our own human reason, our fallible human reason, and let's see if we can sort of climb a ladder to get to Jesus.

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Or do we actually engage that discussion with the authority and certainty that the

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Scriptures give us about God, His existence, and Jesus Himself? Do we approach it standing on the

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Word of God, and that is the foundation of our confidence and our hope? Or do we approach it some other way?

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This goes into every area of our lives. So the issue of sola scriptura, or that doctrine, that the

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Scriptures alone are the sole and fallible rule of faith and practice for the Church, is really, this is important, if you don't get anything else, get this, it is really the question of knowledge.

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How do we know? How do you know? Can I bring it up by way of an example right now?

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When you and I are out there on the streets ministering the

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Gospel to our Mormon neighbors around us, they have an epistemology too.

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Now don't let that word throw you. Don't let it throw you. Epistemology is just a word that means theory of knowledge.

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How do I know? And so you go out there and you say, I want to share the Gospel. I want to share the true message of Jesus with the

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Latter Day Saints out there. When you go to them, and you start having a conversation, you're having a conversation about Jesus and the

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Gospel that is rooted in what? What's it rooted in? Scripture.

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Is it rooted in your private experience? Your personal experience? Is it rooted in the authority of the teaching of your pastor at Apologia Church?

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Is that where it's rooted? When you go out there, you don't need to mention Jeff Durbin. You don't need to mention

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Apologia Church. You don't need to mention any of that because when you minister the Gospel to the

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Mormon on the street out there, you are standing on the word of the living God. And when you compare the revelation of Joseph Smith Jr.

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with the revelation of Scripture, you are actually making a claim to knowledge. This is how you know what's true about Jesus and the

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Gospel and the Scriptures themselves. You're standing on a platform.

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And underneath you are presuppositions. Underneath you are things that you hold to be true and you're standing on them.

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But for the Christian, I know this is true, not because I feel it, not because I've simply experienced it.

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I know it's true because God said, that's how I know.

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And they have a theory of knowledge too. They're told, well, here's how you'll know that Joseph Smith Jr.

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was a prophet and his revelation was true. I want you to read the

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Book of Mormon and to what? Pray about it. And if you pray about it with a sincere heart in your own private experience, if you pray about it with a sincere heart, you will get a burning in your blood.

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The Holy Spirit of God will testify to you that this is the truth of God. You test it by prayer.

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Did you catch it? That is a standard for how you know. It's not biblical in any way.

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God never tells you to pray about something as a fallible human being to see if yourself you discover if it's actually true.

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But that's a theory of knowledge. They're saying, here's how you'll know. You'll know based upon your own private experience.

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You'll feel something. And that's how you know. But it gets deeper than that. Because when you get further and further into the discussion with the

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Latter -day Saints and you're bringing the Word of God, you're standing on the Scriptures, you're quoting Scriptures in context all the way through, ultimately when there's a conflict, what will they say?

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Well, Joseph says, and that's how I know. Or the prophet and apostles in Salt Lake have said, and that's how

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I know. It is their words. And so even, get this, even when some religions counterfeit the

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Christian faith, and they will say, I believe in the Word of God.

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The Bible is the Word of God. They say, I'm standing on that. What you'll find is there's another foot planted somewhere else.

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One is on the Word of God and one is in the authoritative teaching or leadership of their organization.

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So you have one foot on the Bible and you have one foot over here on their own particular organization's authority or tradition.

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And what happens, brothers and sisters, when you have these two authorities is one of those authorities is going to end up, as Dr.

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Bonson said, eating up the other. Now I hope you caught it in terms of the question of knowledge.

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I just brought that discussion to the discussion between us and the

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Latter -day Saints. But did you catch it? That is exactly the same epistemological foundation as the

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Roman Catholic. It is the Word of God and this other divine deposit over here of this so -called church tradition, the teaching magisterium of the church.

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And so you've got the profession. These are the words of God. I love the Word of God.

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As Father Mitchell Pacwa said in his debate with Dr. White, he said whenever he goes to read the words of God, he kisses the pages of the scriptures.

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We are not saying that our Roman Catholic friends and family do not revere the

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Word of God or call it the Word of God. We're not saying that they don't believe it's inspired.

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We're saying that when you have two standards running alongside one another, this other standard will begin eating up the other standard.

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And so this is really a question of knowledge. And so last week, Part 1, we talked about the nature and the origin and the authority of scripture.

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Now what is this? What is this? Is it just words on pages?

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Just a collection of writings from fallible human beings? What does scripture say about the nature and the origin of what we're holding in our hands right here?

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Scripture says in 2 Timothy 3, 16 -17, All scripture is breathed out by God.

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What's the Greek word? Theanoustos. All scripture is theanoustos.

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Now real fast, this is critical. It's vital. It's important. Get this. Who said that?

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Paul. The Apostle Paul said that. To who? Timothy. Paul says that to Timothy in the first century.

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Get this. When inspired revelation was still being given because the apostles were not dead yet.

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In other words, Paul right there in that letter is giving inspired revelation to Timothy.

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But what are the scriptures he's actually referring to there to Timothy? He tells

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Timothy there that from a young boy. Like basically, you're sitting on your grandma's lap.

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You've known the scriptures since you were litter. Litter. Litter. Okay. Since you were a litter. You've known the scriptures since you were little.

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And he says that all scripture is theanoustos. It's breathed out by God and profitable.

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And he names all of the ways the scriptures bless, correct, teach, fully equip us, make us complete.

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What scriptures was he primarily referring to there? The Old Testament scriptures.

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Which, by the way, this will come out later, they knew what they were. No confusion amongst the

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Jews of Jesus' day or Paul's day in terms of what was the Old Testament. Get this sidebar.

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It's important in our discussion with Rome. You need to know this. Very important. When he talks about the scriptures, what was he referring to?

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The known scriptures. The Old Testament scriptures. The scriptures that Paul said in Romans 3 that God had given to the

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Jews to safeguard. They knew the words of God. They were given the oracles of God.

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And those scriptures, we know, in that second temple were the very books that you have and I have right now in our

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Old Testament. Get this. Very important in terms of our dispute with Rome. Our Old Testament today is the same

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Old Testament the Jews have today. And it is the same Old Testament that was actually placed into the second

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Jewish temple securing. These are the oracles of God. These are the words of God. Guess what was not in there?

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The Apocrypha. The Apocryphal books. The Deuterocanonical books that Rome officially, officially by decree said are the words of God and they have in our

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Old Testament. You might recognize that when you are talking to a Roman Catholic maybe you've got a Roman Catholic Bible that there are some other books in the

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Roman Catholic Bible that we don't have in ours. But here's the point. Listen. The revelation of God in scripture is supreme.

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God has spoken. And what Paul says there, get this. It's what makes it distinct.

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All scripture is theonoustos. It's breathed out by God. That says something about the nature of scripture that makes this in front of you different from everything else.

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Get this. This is the revelation of God. God spoke. This is inspired by God. Breathed out by God.

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Everything after the time of the apostles is teaching that may be so valuable.

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We have giants of the faith behind us. But it is teaching that is from fallible and uninspired men.

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You will find giants of the faith throughout the history of the church.

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One of my favorite Christians in history is Athanasius. Athanasius Contramundum.

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Athanasius against the world. It's like the whole world turns into heresy and Athanasius is like one of the last

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Christians standing defending the triune nature of God on the basis, listen, of the word of God.

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That was his standard. And because of Athanasius Contramundum, because of Athanasius standing against the world, he rescues so much of the church because he stood on the word of God.

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We have giants behind us. God has been working in his church throughout history.

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But everybody after the time of the apostles was giving fallible and uninspired revelation.

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Do you get the difference? This is infallible. This is inspired. These are the words of God recorded for us in Scripture.

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That says something about the nature of Scripture. We also talked about what Peter says in 2

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Peter 1 .21. What's he say there? He talks about holy men of God spoke as they were carried along by the

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Holy Spirit. He's talking there about the nature of Scripture. He's talking there about the origin of Scripture, the authority of Scripture.

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Here's the point. The words here in the Scriptures that we agree with Rome at this point, these are the words of God.

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These are the inspired words of God. These were given by the Holy Spirit of God. There can be no error.

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This is the truth of God. And so there is something unique about the Scriptures that is different than all of the other words that come afterwards.

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Scripture is authoritative. Scripture is ultimate. So get this, you get the main issue.

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Ultimate, words of God, self -attesting, authoritative, inspired, recorded for us in the

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Scriptures. Everything post is fallible and uninspired. Now we talked about this last week.

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This is important. One of the ways that our Roman Catholic friends will often mischaracterize the position that you see throughout the church history at many points and mischaracterize the position of the

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Reformers is they will often say something like, you know, it's just you alone.

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You don't need the church. You don't need teaching. It's just you and your Bible kind of a thing. And that's nowhere in the

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Scriptures. Well, listen, we don't believe that. That it's just me alone with my Bible. And I don't have the benefit of God's people and teachers and the

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Holy Spirit throughout the history of the church. But we recognize there's a difference between an ultimate standard that is inspired and infallible and a lesser standard that is fallible and uninspired.

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And we did that by way of what we all understand as a natural part of our world as Christians. Parents in a home.

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Ready? This is your test today. Parents in a home. Fallible or infallible?

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Every kid's like, fallible! Right? For sure. We recognize that.

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Parents in a home are fallible authorities in a home. But do we recognize their authority?

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Do we recognize the authority of parents? Yes. But are they infallible or fallible?

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They are fallible. But it's a real authority. You have to yield to it. In the home, husbands.

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Fallible or infallible authority? Fallible. The women answered right away on that one, right?

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Fallible authority. But ladies, does God call you to submit to your husbands as unto the

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Lord? Yes. Now how do you know your husband... How do you know that your husband is a fallible authority?

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How do you know? Because you see him blow it! But ready? Watch this.

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How do you know that your husband and me, how do you know that we're blowing it?

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Because you're having a bad day? Right? You're just having a bad experience that day.

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Maybe things aren't going well for you and you just personally feel like your husband's a failure. How do you know your husband is failing?

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How do you know he's falling short? The Word of God. I hope, sisters,

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I hope that you are gently being a helpmate to your husband and when he fails, you're coming to encourage him with the

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Word of God in his life. To bless him, to lift him up, and to call him out gently.

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To call him out when he's falling short. But on what basis are you calling him out? On the basis of the words of the inspired and infallible

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Word of God. Or how about... We talked last week about courts and governments and the

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President of the United States. We all recognize authority. You must yield. God calls us to.

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Except where we must obey God rather than what? Men.

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How can you say that? You see, in Scripture, example there. That's a perfect example of government right there in terms of inspired versus uninspired.

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Fallible versus infallible. Scripture says to submit to your governments because it is

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God's deacon to punish evil and to protect the righteous. And so God says, submit to your governing authorities.

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Christians say, yea and amen. And then you see an inspired apostle in the book of Acts being told by the government, shut your mouth about this

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Jesus. Don't talk about him. We don't want you to share this message. Don't say anything.

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That's the governing authorities. And so submit to your governing authorities.

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What does Peter say? We must obey God rather than men.

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And so Peter and the others take a beating for Jesus and they walk away from the council rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

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On what basis is Peter resisting a proper authority like the government? On what basis?

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The revelation of God. The word of the living God. So we recognize that you can have lesser authorities but they are fallible authorities.

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They are uninspired authorities. Here's the question. How will you test even good authorities?

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How will you test them? On the basis of what? The word of the living

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God. The revelation of God. And where, you'll get the whole thing here, and where do you and I have access today to the revelation, the inspired, infallible words of God?

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Where do you get access to that today? In the scriptures right here of the

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Old and New Testaments. That's where you have access to the revelation of God.

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Scripture is authoritative. We talked last week about Matthew 7, 24 -27 and Jesus tells us to build our life upon the rock of his word.

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Everything else is sinking sand. These are the words of the incarnate one.

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And this is, by the way, not a comprehensive sermon series on this subject.

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We can go much, much more. But in Proverbs 1, 7 there's a claim made in scripture about knowledge, about wisdom, about how do you know, about how do you live.

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And it says that what is the beginning of knowledge and wisdom? What is it?

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The fear of the Lord. Reverent submission and awe before God is the very beginning, not the middle.

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It's the very starting point of all knowledge, of all wisdom. If you want to know, if you want to have skill in living, if you want to have certainty, you must start your thinking with reverent submission and awe before God.

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And where do you get access today to the words of God? Where are they?

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Where are they? You can talk here, everyone. Where are they? In the Bible, in the Holy Scriptures.

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So if you want to know something with certainty, you have to start with God. God is the very source.

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God speaks. It's inspired. It's infallible. In Colossians 2, 3 we talked about scripture.

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Paul's having it. Listen, this is huge. We don't have time to just do a deep dive in this today. But Paul is dealing very early on in the history of the church.

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He's dealing with a controversy about knowledge. The Gnostics are creeping up.

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We've got this secret knowledge. We've got this stuff. They even say later, we've got this stuff passed down to us, these traditions.

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You know, they're not recorded in Scripture. But we've got these traditions passed down to us. You know, these are things that go all the way back to the apostles.

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It's this secret knowledge. Well, in the early stages of the church, both John and Paul have to deal with the early beginnings of Gnosticism.

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How do you know? Is this some secret knowledge? Or is it like we see in Scripture?

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Public, open, in the public square, easily accessible. These are the words of God. And in Colossians 2, verse 3,

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Paul makes a giant claim. Huge philosophical claim.

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He says, in Christ, get this. Anybody ever study philosophy?

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Philosophy course in college here? Raise your hand if you did a philosophy course in college. Philosophy. So you know a little bit about the nature of this claim and how big it is.

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If you studied epistemology and philosophy and how do you know different theories of knowledge? Is it reason? Is it experience?

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Is it testing? Paul says, in Christ are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

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In Christ are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

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You want to know something? Paul's saying it. You want to know? You want to have certainty? It's hidden in Christ.

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That's how you know. He's the reference point. That's where you start.

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That's what you stand on. These are giant claims, brothers and sisters. Colossians 2, verse 3.

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In Christ are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. We talked about Matthew 22, 31.

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The question about the resurrection. Jesus challenges them. You do err not knowing the scriptures.

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For Jesus, the very revelation of God, God himself incarnate, he points them to the scriptures.

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Their failure was to, they did not understand the scriptures. In Matthew 19,

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Jesus is challenging them in that Hillelite controversy. He challenges them on the basis of the words of God, the revelation of God.

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He brings them back, as Jewish people, to the revelation of God, the words that God had spoken.

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Now this is an important one. Matthew chapter 15, we started with today. Go there again. Matthew 15.

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Jesus here is engaging with something that is very important in terms of principle.

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Now brothers and sisters, I've had many conversations with Roman Catholics over many, many years of ministry.

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And this is a critical part of the conversation that we have with Rome today.

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Because here we have an example of when God took on flesh and he walked among us.

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This is important. Does Jesus here have the right to pull rank and authority on those around him?

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Does he have the right to? And if Jesus simply spoke without reference to the scriptures, would that count as much?

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Yes. Because Jesus is God incarnate. Jesus is God speaking to us.

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He could have pulled rank. But Jesus actually here does something that is a thing that we need to say.

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He modeled for us as his people how do you deal with controversy over what is alleged divine tradition.

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So get this and you'll get the whole thing in terms of the principle. Here you have the

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Jews coming to Jesus. And what they're trying to do is say that there's a failure with your followers,

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Jesus. You guys aren't being faithful Jews. You're not really being obedient. Okay.

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On what basis? Well, they say they're not doing what? Following the tradition of the elders.

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They're breaking the tradition of the elders. And so they give Jesus an example.

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Here's how they're breaking the tradition of the elders. And so what Jesus does is he answers them in a powerful way that, by the way, is the very principle of Sola Scriptura in action in the incarnate one.

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That's the point of this passage that we're talking about today. Here it is. Jesus answered them. And he says this.

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And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

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So Jesus now here, listen, he gives two categories. He says here's the commandment of God and here is something over here not the commandment of God.

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It is a tradition. Now, he quotes, for God commanded, and he quotes these scriptures, the revelation of God, honor your father and your mother and, he quotes another one, whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.

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So he makes a contrast. Here's God's commandment. Here's your tradition. Here are the very words of God from Scripture.

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And now he goes into the next point. But you say, here are the words of God from Scripture. Here are your words, your tradition.

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If anyone tells his father or his mother whatever you would have gained from me is given to God. He need not honor his father.

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So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. What he's talking about here is something that was allegedly a divine tradition passed down all the way to Jesus' day.

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Think about the claim being made. We have the inspired revelation of God. We've got the

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Scriptures. But we've also got something that is different than the

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Scriptures. But it is still divine. It is still from God. It's the tradition of the elders.

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It's the Korban rule. You see, I don't really need to take care of my father or my mother as the law of God commands.

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I don't need to do that. You see, I can give what really should have gone to taking care of my family.

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I can give it over here to the temple. Hey, you know, I'm sorry. It's been given to God. And Jesus says to that allegedly divine tradition held by religious people who believed in the

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Scriptures too. He says, So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God.

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You hypocrites. Well did Isaiah prophesy of you when he said, This people honors me with their lips but their heart is far from me.

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In vain do they worship me. Here it is. Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

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Here is the incarnate one walking among us. And what does he do when there's a conflict between the revelation of God in Scripture and the allegedly divine traditions handed all the way down through the centuries?

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What does he do? He says, God says, and he quotes the Scriptures. Apparently Jesus believed they were authoritative and he believes they were clear.

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He said, Here's what God says. Here's what you say. And so he compares them and he says,

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Thus you invalidate. You make void the word of God for the sake of your what?

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Tradition. So here you have God in the flesh. What the true image bearer of God ought to be.

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He's not just God. He is man. And is Jesus the perfect man? Is he what we should all be in our humanity?

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Is he what we should all be in our submission to the word of God and the Father? Yes? And so what he teaches us here in this conflict is you can have alleged divine traditions passed down that people impose upon you and say these are authoritative.

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These are from the church. These are from the people of God. We've passed this down. It is from God himself and we declare it to be authoritative.

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Jesus says. God says. And you say. You invalidate the word of God for the sake of your tradition.

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Did Jesus teach us in this moment to test the traditions of men?

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Yes. That is the principle of sola scriptura.

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You can't get better than it. And in our conflict with Rome that's the issue.

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You may claim that these traditions are passed all the way down from the apostles till now.

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First of all you cannot prove that in any way with so many of the dogmas of Rome.

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It is nonexistent in the earliest stages of the church. And you see even statements from church fathers that deny what are dogmas today with Rome.

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It is a myth. Roman Catholic apologists unfortunately draw many people into Rome through historical myths.

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They lie about church history. They lie about the fathers. They pretend that there's this unanimity and this unanimous belief or foundation of the church fathers and the truth about church history is you will see some great moments of consistency with the word of God and you will see some massive face plants.

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How do you know they're face plants? Because they're directly contradicting the very words of God.

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So here is the principle I wanted to show you from the scriptures from the Lord himself. Now again here's the question.

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Is this inspired or uninspired? Is it fallible or infallible?

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It is the revelation of God. Now brothers and sisters the principle, the heart of Sola Scriptura is the revelation of God is the reference point.

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And here's the question. Where do you and I and our Roman Catholic friends and family have access to the revelation of God today?

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Only where? Only in the Holy Scriptures. Rome is not making the claim that there is new revelation being given today.

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They recognize these are the recorded inspired words of God, the revelation of God.

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Now get this. Very important. I use the word today epistemology.

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Christians hold to a revelational epistemology which is basically this.

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How do I know with certainty? And the answer is God said.

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God said. And listen, you can fill this out and talk about transcendental foundations.

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You could talk about the preconditions of intelligibility. You could talk about rationalism and empiricism versus revelational epistemology.

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We can do this at a high scholarly level and way up here. But you know what revelational epistemology essentially is?

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God said. And that's why I believe it. Simple, right? Simple enough?

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You all recognize this and I've used this as many times as I can. As parents with your kids at home every day, when you impose a commandment upon your children at home, right, you are giving them a commandment like honor your father and mother and that is authoritative in your home.

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Amen? Yes? And when you give it to your kids and you say honor your father and your mother, what if your child said to you who says?

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Or what if they said let me test that? Right? Or what if they said you know,

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Dad, I understand you say that a lot. You say it an awful lot. But can we bring it to an experiment?

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Can we really test that claim? What would happen if your child said that to you? Let's skip past the discipline part.

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And let's talk about the conversation that would happen afterwards. What would you say? In the end you're saying it's not my words.

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This is not my standard. I didn't make this up. These are the words of God. He created all of this.

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He created you. He sustains you right now. He's spoken and He said to us as His creatures this is the way the world works.

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This is how you're supposed to live in my world. Your father and your mother. Obey your parents and the

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Lord. That's a command of God. And listen, doesn't the buck just stop there for the parents?

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No other explanation necessary. Or when you tell your children love your neighbor as you love yourself.

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On what basis should they obey it? These are the words of God.

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That's a revelational epistemology. I know and have certainty because it is God and His own authoritative self -attesting authority that gave it.

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That's how I know. Now let's do this for some fun today. I need three men up here.

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Let's do one and then Oscar I'll take you. Come on up. We're going to throw blows with each other.

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We just came back from man camp. We're ready to go. Let me do this. Let me have

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How's your balance? Good. Okay. Grab two chairs. Oscar, right over there.

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Grab two of those. Oscar grab one and grab one. So let's have you stand over here.

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Oscar you stand in the middle. There you go. Okay. So if a gentleman would go ahead and stand in your chair and you're going to stand with one foot on each.

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Now you know why I asked about his balance. Okay. In my experience, at least for myself, this has been one of the most effective ways to communicate as you're thinking through these issues that all of us walk into a conversation.

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All of us walk into a debate with presuppositions, commitments underneath us, things that we believe ahead of time.

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So we have a foundation underneath us. So for today in terms of illustrating this,

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Revelational Epistemology, we're going to have the Christian, the

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Atheist, and the Roman Catholic. Sorry. Okay.

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The Christian, the Atheist, and the Roman Catholic. I want you to think about this in terms of, well what are we standing on to make that possible?

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What's the Christian standing on as a foundation for how he knows something? Where are his beliefs coming from?

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Scripture. That's his ultimate standard. That's what it's supposed to be. My presuppositions, my pre -commitments, my beliefs ahead of time are supposed to be from the revelation of God.

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I know it because God said it. So the Christian's standing on the Bible. The Atheist, he could be standing on a number of things on how he knows something to be true.

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He could be the rationalist Atheist. He believes that he knows what he knows based upon reason, laws of logic.

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The Atheist could believe that he knows things based upon testing it, empiricism.

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He has to see it. He's got to test it. He has to examine it. Taste, touch, smell.

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I want to view it in front of me. He's an empiricist. He's got to test it. Some Atheists will say, well you've got to do both.

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You've got to use your reason and you've got to test things. But he could be sort of the modern pop Atheist that just hates

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God and says, well no, I know because I feel like it's true. It's my personal truth.

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That's how I know. Because I feel like it's true. There's all kinds of mixed bags of epistemology with the

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Atheist, but ultimately let's think about the world view of the Atheist. What is the

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Atheist standing on in terms of his view of origins? What's that standing on his head?

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Yeah. Very good. Okay. What's he standing on? What does he believe about origins?

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He believes time and chance is acting on matter. Right? Is there any governance to the universe?

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What's he believe? There was nothing and then there was something. Right? There was nothing and then there was something.

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There was inorganic matter that miraculously transformed itself with no guidance, no governance into organic matter.

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Wow! Miracles, right? What's he believe about human beings? Ancestors were bacteria.

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Ancestors moved into fish. His ancestor was an

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African ape and here we are. Are human beings distinct from everything else in this whole universe?

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Are they distinct? Not in Atheism. What's the difference in Atheism between rocks, snails, horses, dogs and humans?

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What's the difference? No meaningful difference at all. Rocks are random results of evolutionary processes and so is

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Oscar. Sorry. Now, think about what he's standing on again.

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He doesn't have the Bible. He doesn't have the image of God. He doesn't have an orderly creation, an orderly universe, a governed universe, a law -like universe.

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He doesn't have human dignity and value. He doesn't have the image of God. And so now, let's talk about morality.

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What's he standing on? Human beings are cosmic accidents. This is an unguided universe. There's no purpose.

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There's no meaning. It's sound and fury signifying nothing. So human beings are cosmic accidents.

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If you believe like the famous atheist, Dan Barker, you'll believe that human beings are nothing more than cosmic broccoli.

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Something growing on the surface of the cosmos. When you die, you stay dead.

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Like Dr. Will Provine, the professor of biology at Cornell University, you'll say that there is no good.

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Nothing's evil. Right? There's no free will. No one's really making any of their own choices.

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You're just fizzing chemicals. You couldn't help but doing and being what you are. He says, we live, we die, and we're gone.

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We're absolutely gone when we die. That's Will Provine being a very consistent atheist.

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What's above you in atheism? Sky. No justice ahead of any atheist who dies.

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It's just happening. It's a cosmic accident. So, you getting tired?

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You all right? Okay, good. All right. Okay, good. Yeah, very good.

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Okay, play the part. All right. So, we know what his view of origins are. We know what his view of humans are.

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Now let's think about morality. If you've seen the debate we had last year with the atheist at the

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University of Utah, you heard the atheist during cross -examination say that Ted Bundy was not absolutely wrong.

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That pedophiles are not absolutely wrong. That rapists are not absolutely wrong.

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Do you know how we got him there? We got him there by not pretending neutrality. We got him there by asking him to be consistent with his worldview and presuppositions.

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If you believe that human beings are cosmic accidents with only sky above us, no absolute standards, nothing is objectively true, then nothing is good, nothing is evil.

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It's just personal preference. And you can't ultimately challenge anybody on anything.

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You could read the best atheists in the world and in their consistent moments, they'll say it, they'll put it in print.

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Richard Dawkins wrote a book called River Out of Eden and he says about the universe, he said there is no good, there is no evil, there is only blind, pitiless indifference.

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That's one of the most famous atheists of the last generation. Admitting no good, no evil, blind, pitiless indifference.

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Now, we're going to leave the Roman Catholic out of this discussion just for a moment. We're going to illustrate first with the atheist and the

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Christian, but just for reference here, why do I have him standing on two chairs? To burn calories, he said.

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We're standing on two chairs here because what does the Roman Catholics say they believe about scripture?

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That it's the words of God. And they say they stand on it. But what else are they standing on? Church tradition, that other deposit, teaching magisterium of the church.

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So two things. Now, let's ask the question, you're in this now because this is the world we live in.

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Let's ask the question, if he says, as the Christian, we should love our neighbor rather than eat them, that's what we ought to do.

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We ought to, it's a moral demand. You ought to love your neighbor rather than eat them. Is he being consistent?

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Is he allowed to say that? Come on now, is he allowed to? Why? Because he's basing that belief upon the words of God.

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Now let's go to the atheist and his atheistic world view. Is he allowed to claim that we ought to, morally, we're required to love our neighbor rather than eat them?

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Can he say that? Will he say that? Yes, why?

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Because he's in the image of God whether he wants to admit it or not. This is

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God's world and he's not going to be able to help it. But if he tells his children, and he does, that you ought to love your neighbor rather than eat them, what is he doing secretly?

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He's borrowing from the Christian world view to actually develop his world view because his world view is sinking sand.

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He has no basis to make that claim. All right, ready? Let's try it over here. Let's make another moral claim said today and let's see if we're consistent.

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The Christian over here says marriage is between one man and one woman and that is a moral obligation.

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Can he say that? On what basis? Who said that? God. Did Jesus talk about that?

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Yeah, Matthew 19. Jesus said something to say about marriage. He said, in the beginning God created male and female and what's he say about it?

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A man leaves his father, mother. Hey, there's another binary, right? Woman, man. He leaves his father, mother, one set and he becomes one flesh with his wife.

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And so the Christian over here says marriage is this and it's a moral obligation.

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Now, let's go to the world of unbelief today. The atheist today, can he say that you are morally obligated to say marriage is between one man and one woman?

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Can he say that? No. And by the way, the unbelievers of today because of their presuppositions and their worldview they won't say it.

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They'll say it can really be anything you want. It doesn't need to be a man and a woman.

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It could be a man and a woman and a woman and another man. It could be a man and a man.

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A woman and a woman. It becomes absolute meaninglessness. Marriage is nothing.

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It has no meaning. It has no purpose. There's nothing beautiful or valuable about it.

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And so let's try another one. Conflict today between the

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Christian and the unbeliever or say the person who was just fundamentally atheistic in their presuppositions.

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Should we allow the mutilation of children in their genitals with transgender surgeries?

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Should we allow that? What's the Christian say? On what basis? God's word.

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The Christian worldview gives value and meaning and purpose to that image bearer of God. The Christian worldview gives a secure protection for that child.

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The Christian worldview can navigate the broken thinking of the child and protect them as so we can help them to heal and get older and not destroy their bodies as so many have done today.

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They've mutilated their bodies. They destroyed themselves. And now they're coming out publicly and talking about how they were destroyed by the thinking of the world.

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They were confused. And now they've lost everything. They'll never be able to have children. They'll never be able to have an enjoyable, physically intimate relationship with another person because they've destroyed themselves.

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But the Christian says you ought not do that. Are they being consistent? But on what basis?

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God said. Can the unbeliever say consistently that you ought not mutilate the body of a child with a transgender surgery?

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Can the unbeliever say that consistently? No. But will many unbelievers say it?

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Yes. Because what will they do? They will borrow what? Capital from the

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Christian worldview and pull it over. So we must say, what's the very foundation of your knowledge?

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How do you know? What are you standing on? On what basis? Now to the conflict with the

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Roman Catholic. Oscar, you can hop down. Thank you, brother. So now we have the

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Christian and we have the Roman Catholic. Both claim to be standing on the Bible. And in terms of controversy and conflict, we're not going to be able to fully unpack this today, but I want us to think about this today.

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When you have this conversation, we have the Roman Catholic who stands on scripture and tradition.

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Whatever that means. And the Christian who says, no, this is the rule of faith. These are the words of God.

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It must be tested by this. You can have the same kind of conversation.

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What if we had the conversation of, ready? This question. Did Mary have other children?

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What does he believe about it? Why? Because the

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Bible is clear. It talks about the brothers and sisters.

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It talks about clearly, in very clear language. You have to dance and spin on your head to get around it.

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That Mary was not perpetually a virgin. But we go over here and the Roman Catholic, you ask the question, did

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Mary have other children? And the basis of their claim that she was perpetually a virgin is not actually on the exegesis of the text of God's word.

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What does the text clearly say? Repeatedly, their belief on the perpetual virginity of Mary is really based upon another standard, isn't it?

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It is the tradition of the church, the teaching magisterium of the church, that tells them with authority, you must believe this about Mary.

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She was perpetually a virgin. By the way, as Pastor James has brought out many times before, there have also been some pretty weird things said by Roman Catholics.

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Because typically, when women give birth to babies, it's quite an experience.

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Amen? When they give birth to babies, it affects the body. You guys understand what

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I'm saying? There are children in here. Yes? It's hard to stay a virgin after giving birth.

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Everyone understand what I'm saying here? And so you have to defy so much of what is just basic to the creative order in order to believe something that is unbiblical and just simply mythology.

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But when you ask the question, about Mary, was she perpetually a virgin? The Christian says, let's go to the text.

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Let's look what the Bible tells us about Mary. Let's see what the Bible tells us about the brothers and the family of the

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Lord Jesus. And then you go over here and you say, well, what's happening here with this tension and the perpetual virginity of Mary?

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The tension is the Word of God says something. And then over here, we have another tradition that's eating up the

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Word of God. Also, there's other issues on that question. Over here, when they're asked the question about perpetual virginity of Mary, what do we say also?

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The text is clear, but let's bring another thing into this in terms of the law

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Word of God. Was Mary married to Joseph? Yes.

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Do you know how much of a violation of God's law it would be for Mary to live without intimacy with her husband for the duration of the marriage?

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Doesn't God's law call us to be one flesh? Doesn't God's law tell us that our bodies don't belong to myself, but we are for one another?

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Doesn't the Word of God actually tell Christian couples the only time you should not be intimate is when you both decide together to fast for a short period of time?

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And then what's it say? To come together again so that you're not tempted. But now we're to believe that Mary was perpetually a virgin in violation of the standards of God's Word the whole way through.

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Let me say something. If you want Mary to look like the righteous woman that she truly was, and she was righteous, she was the

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Savior's mother. If you want Mary to look like the righteous mother that she was and righteous wife that she was, then don't accuse her of violating

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God's law with her husband. Do you see the point? How would you ever know how would you ever get to that belief?

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You don't get it from the Bible. You don't get it from the law, Word of God. Next. Ready? Let's ask the question.

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What are you standing on? Where is your authority? How do you know? The Pope is the infallible vicar of Christ on earth today.

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What's the Christian say? No. Why? Because that belief is not in the

57:58

Word of God. That teaching is not in the Word of God. It cannot be found in the

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Word of God. Why does the Roman Catholic believe that the Pope is the infallible vicar of Christ on earth today?

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Why does he believe it? Is it because of the Bible? It's because of what?

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Tradition, teaching magisterium of the church. You've got this other standard over there running alongside the

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Bible. You will not find that teaching in the scriptures themselves. And by the way, guess where else you won't find it?

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You will not find it in the early stages of the Christian church. You will find actually opposition to it.

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You will find contradiction to it. And by the way, listen, Rome does not simply have a conflict with us.

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A lot of times, Rome likes to pretend this uniformity of belief and this unanimity in church history.

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They teach historical myths. And they like to say that their conflict is with us, the

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Reformed. But let me ask you a question. How did the Eastern Orthodox feel about the infallible nature of the

59:06

Pope? You ever heard about the great schism between the

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East and the West? Rome and Eastern Orthodoxy? Eastern Orthodoxy also rejects the

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Pope and the Pope's office and the claims made about the Pope. And guess what Eastern Orthodoxy is also standing on?

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The same kind of foundation to running alongside one another.

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And even Eastern Orthodoxy says, No thanks, guys. That's not in scripture or in church history.

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You're lying. Next. And this is a big one.

59:44

Mary was bodily assumed into heaven. What's this guy say?

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We don't even know what happened to Mary outside of the pages of the

59:57

Book of Acts. She sort of fades out of the picture. Why?

01:00:03

Because there wasn't supposed to be an idolatrous nature between Christians and Mary. At least. Is it

01:00:10

Jesus' mother? Yes. Should we honor and respect the fact that that was his mother and she was righteous? Amen.

01:00:17

But we have this idea of bodily assumption of Mary. That's taught. But on what basis is it taught?

01:00:23

Is it taught on the basis of the Holy Scriptures? Do we have certainty about that? It's not in the

01:00:29

Scriptures, but why does the Roman Catholic believe it? It's not because of Scripture, but because of church tradition, the teaching magisterium of the church.

01:00:39

I'll give you another one. Mary is a co -mediatrix and co -redemptrix with Christ.

01:00:48

Now, this has not been formally put as official dogma, although it was moving that direction.

01:00:57

But many Roman Catholics believe it, that you have to go through Mary to get to Jesus to get to the

01:01:04

Father. Through Mary to get to Jesus to get to the Father. Now, what's the

01:01:12

Bible say about the mediator? There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man

01:01:21

Christ Jesus. Who is our mediator that brings us to the Father? Jesus taught that He is the way to the

01:01:27

Father. He is the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father, but by Him.

01:01:33

And yet Rome has developed an entire belief system around the mother of the

01:01:39

Lord Jesus and does things that can only amount to meriolatry, idolizing, deifying

01:01:48

Mary, copying really the life of Jesus and making it look like Jesus.

01:01:56

Jesus being born without sin. It's said the same about Mary.

01:02:03

Mary's perpetually a virgin. Mary is bodily assumed into heaven. That can't look like anything other than a parallel to the ascension of our

01:02:10

Savior. And the idea that we would need Mary to get to Christ is not taught in the scriptures.

01:02:16

There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. You do not need

01:02:22

Mary for your salvation. Only Christ. Only Christ.

01:02:30

Next, how are we justified? How are we declared righteous? How do we have peace with God? You know the verse.

01:02:37

We just did it together. Let's finish with this today. Romans 5 .1. What's it say? Therefore, having been what?

01:02:45

Justified by what? Faith, we have what? Peace with God. That is what the

01:02:51

Apostle Paul said. So, when you ask the question with Rome, how are we justified?

01:02:58

Is it by faith alone and Christ alone apart from works? The Christian says, yes, on the basis of the scriptures, the whole story of the gospel, the book of Romans, Galatians, James.

01:03:14

That it is living faith that saves us, but it is also a faith that is apart from works in terms of how we are declared righteous before God.

01:03:23

Paul's clear on that. Does Rome believe that it is salvation through faith alone and Christ alone?

01:03:30

What do you have in the Roman system? You have a sacramental system. You have a mass that never, ever perfects anybody for whom it's made.

01:03:42

You can go to that mass every Sunday, your entire life, and you do not know you have peace with God.

01:03:49

Thank you, guys. You can, if you would bring those chairs back. Thank you. Thanks, boys.

01:03:59

And this is, brothers and sisters, the key issue. Why have this discussion? Well, number one, I hope you understood from the discussion we've had today how vital this truth is.

01:04:09

The revelation of God is foundational and as a starting point. That is the reference point. But this discussion between us and Rome comes down to this point.

01:04:18

Why all the talk? When you abandon the authority and the self -attesting nature of the revelation of God, you will fall into error.

01:04:28

You will lose the gospel. You will lose true biblical doctrine.

01:04:34

But fundamentally, and this is the core issue, you will lose the glory of the gospel that brings us to peace with God.

01:04:42

Rome does not offer you peace. One of my favorite moments between Pastor James and a

01:04:53

Roman Catholic, one of their best, Michipacua, was when

01:05:00

James in cross examination brought this question of this verse to him. Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God.

01:05:11

And he asked Father Pacua of whether or not with his system and what

01:05:18

Rome teaches, whether he had peace with God, how he knows he had peace with God.

01:05:23

And I really appreciated the honesty of Michipacua on this point. He just very honestly said,

01:05:32

I don't. I don't know. Now that's not the gospel.

01:05:39

That's not the glory of the gospel. That's not what the gospel brings. The gospel brings peace with God through Jesus Christ.

01:05:48

And I want to say this. It is not the sin of presumption to trust in the words of God in terms of His promise of eternal life for all who believe in Him.

01:05:59

It is not the sin of presumption to believe that through faith in Jesus I have today, now, eternal life because of what

01:06:08

He did, because of what He accomplished in a perfect atonement. It's not the sin of presumption to believe what the

01:06:15

Apostle John says when he says, These things have I written unto you that believe in the name of the

01:06:20

Son of God that you might know that you have eternal life.

01:06:26

So let me say that to you now, brothers and sisters. Do you trust in Christ? Is He your Lord and Savior?

01:06:31

Are you trusting in Him and Him alone? Do you believe He was perfect? Do you believe

01:06:37

He died for your sins? Do you believe He rose again? Is He God in the flesh? Is He at the right hand of the

01:06:43

Father? Do you trust Him with your whole hearts? Then the Bible says to you, God wants you to know that you have eternal life.

01:06:56

Never ending life. That is the glory of the Gospel. And brothers and sisters, that is where the stakes are in the discussion between us and Roman Catholics.

01:07:06

My heart's desire is that they would know Jesus and His perfect atonement and sacrifice and the gift of eternal life.

01:07:15

That we can know God. That we can have eternal life. That we can have peace with God now.

01:07:24

Why do I have hope in life and in death? Why am I no longer afraid of death? Do you know why?

01:07:32

It's not because I figured it out. Strong. Really overcome that fear of death. I've been in a lot of death beds.

01:07:38

I'm not afraid anymore. I'll tell you what. If you're out of death bed, you will probably fear death.

01:07:45

It is sometimes a very ugly, very painful process. And from a human perspective, experiencing death a lot is not going to remove your fear of death.

01:07:54

My lack of fear of death is based upon the words of God Himself when

01:08:00

He walked among us. In John 5, 24, the Lord Jesus says this, Truly, truly

01:08:05

I say to you, He who hears my voice and believes Him who sent me has eternal life and does not come into judgment but is passed out of death and into life.

01:08:19

Where's my confidence? It's in those words. He is God. God cannot lie.

01:08:27

He will never violate that promise. It will never be broken. And so I come to Him and I say, I believe

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Jesus. I trust in You. He says to me, You are not condemned. You have eternal life.

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I have peace with God because He accomplished it. Now, the final word.

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Can I be certain about what I just said to you? On what basis? God said.

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And where do I have access to the inspired revelation of God today?

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Where? The Scriptures. That's Sola Scriptura. Let's pray.

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Father, I pray that You'd bless the words that went out today for Your glory and kingdom. I pray, Lord, that we would fall more in love with Your Word.