June 18, 2019 Show with William F. Hill, Jr. on “Observing the Christian Sabbath (Without Becoming a Legalist)”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross, in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 18th day of June 2019.

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And I'm delighted to have back on the program a returning guest who I love to interview, a man who has become over a short number of years a good friend of mine, and his name is

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William F. Hill Jr., the former host of the Confessing Our Hope podcast of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylor, South Carolina, and pastor of the

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Fellowship Presbyterian Church, which is a congregation within the Presbyterian Church in America in Newport, Tennessee.

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Today we're going to be addressing Observing the Christian Sabbath Without Becoming a Legalist, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Bill Hill.

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Hey, Chris, thanks. Thanks for having me on again. It's always good to talk with you and enjoy your program very much.

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And so, again, thank you for having me. Hey, the pleasure is all mine, and I'm sure our audience as well.

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And tell us about, even though you've done this before, obviously, tell our listeners about the

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Fellowship Presbyterian Church in Newport, Tennessee. Yeah, glad to do it. It is, as you mentioned, it's a church of the

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Presbyterian Church in America, or PCA for short. It's been in the denomination since about 1985.

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I was called to pastor this church in August of 2000.

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And what year is it? 2017. Took me a second displaying my age,

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I guess. But so I've been a pastor there for almost two years now, and it's a small church in a small area of eastern

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Tennessee residing in a county of about 25 ,000 people. The town itself has about 7 ,000 residents or so, but it's a small but growing congregation, a body of believers that are hungry to hear the word and zealous to learn.

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And it's a great privilege, actually, to serve them and lead them in the

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Reformed faith and the salient doctrines that we hold dear. And so I'm very honored to be their pastor and to serve them week after week.

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And so if you're ever in the area, we're right outside Gatlinburg. The Smoky Mountains surround us.

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So if you're ever in this area, please come visit us, and we'd love to have you. Great.

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And for those of you who are living in the area that was just mentioned by our guest, or perhaps you are visiting that area, or perhaps you have family, friends, and loved ones in that area, we want to make sure that you have the website of Fellowship Presbyterian Church.

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That website is fellowship -pca .org, fellowship -pca .org,

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and that's the Fellowship Presbyterian Church in Newport, Tennessee. Today we are addressing a very controversial issue.

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This is the theme, Observing the Christian Sabbath Without Becoming a Legalist.

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The Sabbath and legalism are both controversial issues amongst professing believers because of the fact that there is a wide spectrum of belief in regard to what is the

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Sabbath. Is there a Christian Sabbath today? Was it fulfilled by Christ himself becoming or being the

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Sabbath? Is it on Sunday or Saturday? There are all kinds of things that divide the body of Christ over the

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Sabbath. Even those that are Sabbatarians disagree on what would be appropriate for a faithful Christian observing the

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Christian Sabbath in a biblical fashion, and sometimes we have brothers in Christ judging each other over how they observe the

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Sabbath in a wrongful fashion. So there are all kinds of issues involved in this day known as the

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Christian Sabbath. First of all, why don't you, in a summary fashion, explain what the

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Christian Sabbath is and why you believe that it is important for Christians in the

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New Covenant to observe this day set apart, in the opinion of Sabbatarians, by God.

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Yeah, I'd be glad to. Clearly the issue of the Sabbath, as you've mentioned,

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Chris, is somewhat controversial. I don't know that it ought to be controversial, given the fact that its location within the canon of Scripture, where it's located within the moral law of God and found in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, but even before that, these moral commands, not merely wrapped up in the

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Fourth Commandment, all of them find their place and location previous even to the giving of the inscripture -rated

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Ten Commandments, which is merely a summary of God's moral law.

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So each command is a summary statement of a fuller understanding of what that particular command is speaking to.

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So when we're talking about the Fourth Commandment, primarily we're talking about a day in which

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God, in Exodus 20, specifically mandates as different or set apart for a particular purpose within the confines of the first table of the law, which is that table which tells us, as God's people, primarily, how we're to approach

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God or how we're to worship Him, our attitude, our love, our affection towards Him. So it's rooted, really, though, in the creation week.

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So some scholars refer to it as a creation mandate. It's an aspect by which, during creation, when

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God made the heavens and the earth in the space of six days and all very good, on that seventh day,

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He rested. Now, we know from the Gospels that God does not rest.

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He's been working, has been working ever since. But it's a picture of what He, by example, is setting before creatures to do.

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And in that seventh day, He sets it apart. He doesn't call that day good.

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He calls it holy. And He distinguishes it between the other six days just by definition, by using a very different term as opposed to the other six days, which

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He all labeled as good. So we have this example given to us that predates the moral law as inscripturated in Exodus 20 by a long margin.

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And then we see that, in example, repeated refrain throughout the first two books of the

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Pentateuch in Genesis, as well as in Exodus. But primarily in Exodus, when the people of God are redeemed out of Egypt and they're moving to Sinai, God gives them, again, by precept and example, this idea of a special day, a unique day set apart to Him.

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And He does that when He bestows upon them the manna in the wilderness, where He gives them the bread that they need to survive.

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And then He instructs them on the day previous to the Sabbath to take twice as much, don't go out, collect it, don't work for it, don't labor for your bread, which perishes, but labor for it the day before and devote that last day, that seventh day, to God's worship, to His honor and devotion.

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So it all predates law. We get to the Exodus 20, we come to the

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Fourth Commandment, where God then repeats almost verbatim what He initially did in the first week of creation when

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He gives the instructions to honor the Sabbath -dater, to remember or keep the

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Sabbath as holy before Him. And He gives these broad, sweeping definitions as to what that looks like, you know, you shall not work, you're manservant, you're maidservant, and so forth.

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And then He reminds the people of Israel that this is something that was done, it's not instituted now, but it was instituted really previous to God even calling a people out of Egypt.

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The other thing that's important about the Fourth Commandment, as well as all the other commands there in the

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Decalogue or the Ten Commandments, is that it's written primarily to the redeemed people of God.

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So we have in the preface to the Ten Commandments, I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage, or out of the house of slavery.

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And of course we know that that's a type or a shadow, an expression of that great rest that God frees us from in Christ when

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He pulls us out of bondage of sin and slavery and places us into union with Christ.

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And so these binding commands are still in force, these commands are still in force over against the people of God, but not out of compulsion as much as out of zeal to obey our

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Father who has saved us. So this is often referred to as the third use of the law, and that's reserved for the redeemed people of God.

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The first two uses of the law are that which show us a mirror as to our sin and our failure before a holy

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God who has the right to make law. And then the second use in that is to restrain evil or wickedness in the world.

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But here is the redeemed people in Exodus 20 who are now at Sinai, who are there to worship the

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God they came out of Egypt to worship. He gives them these holy instructions to give them guidance and precept and mandate, in summary fashion indeed, as to how they worship

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Him and how they're to love others. And so contained within that we have that fourth commandment, which sits right on the hinge between our approach to God and how we're to love

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Him, and then also how we are to interact with our neighbors, our brothers, other people in the world.

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So it sits right on that edge where it starts to make that transition between our love towards God and now we turn the corner, and then it's how we approach our neighbor as well.

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So, of course, the application of that I think we're going to talk more about, but that's the summary of it.

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And, of course, one of the sticky situations for Sabbatarians who are

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Sunday observers is that you will have folks say that all of the commands that you are citing in regard to the observance of a

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Sabbath day all refer, as you even just mentioned, to a seventh day.

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And, therefore, if we are going to perpetuate Sabbath observance, we have no business changing the day to Sunday, that it should be on a

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Saturday, if indeed we are to observe a Sabbath at all. So how do you best explain the change in the day?

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Because there seems to be, in the New Testament, no absolutely clear reason given that we have a day change in regard to the

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Sabbath. Yeah, and that's a good question. That's one that's, I think, often asked.

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I do think it's clear in the New Testament, however, that there is a change. We have the examples of the apostles in Acts, where especially

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Paul, on his missionary journeys, he would go into the synagogue to minister and worship with the

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Jews, but then on the Lord's Day he would be in the house of, as it were, Christians, worshiping there on Sunday.

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And so that's one example. You have John's reference in the Revelation that he was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day.

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But generally, it's been understood this way. The seventh day is the end of the work or labor that God performed in creation, and he rested.

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Okay, we know that God does not rest in that sense, because God does not need to rest. Well, we do. But because of the work of Christ, who has accomplished the work that he came to do, he has now purchased for us the rest that we absolutely need, and because of that and his resurrection on the first day of the week, we now have the model both by the apostles' example,

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John's statements, as well as Christ's own resurrection, the visit of Christ to the disciples in John 20, and we have this picture that has shifted the day of worship to the first day of the week, which precedes our work now, because the work is actually, our work into the week is now, that work has already been accomplished.

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And so as far as redemption is concerned, that is settled. And so there's no end of it anymore, because Christ has done that work.

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So we now worship on the first day. It's probably not the best way to answer the question, but that's a summary anyway.

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Sure. And by the way, I want to give our email address for those of our listeners who would like to join us with a question of their own.

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Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com,

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and please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence. If you live outside the

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USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. And, of course, those private matters may be something like we have a listener who disagrees with his own pastor or congregation or denomination on this issue, and they don't want to identify themselves.

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That's obviously a good reason to remain anonymous. In fact, we would insist that you do if you don't want to mention specific pastors or church names.

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Also, you may be a pastor yourself. You may disagree with your denomination on this issue.

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You may disagree with your congregation on this issue, and you'd rather not draw attention to your identity.

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Well, those are fine reasons to remain anonymous, but please, if it is not a personal and private matter, please at least give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence.

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That's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. One of the questions that I have to start the ball rolling is, what would be differences, if any, in which the

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Christian is observing a Sabbath day than the saints of the

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Old Covenant in their worship and observance of Saturday as their

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Sabbath? Is there any technical or specific details in regard to which

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Old Covenant worshipers and New Covenant worshipers observe the Sabbath?

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And I'm saying not that they may have observed it differently for extra -biblical reasons.

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I'm talking about as far as what you are aware in the Scriptures, the God -breathed Word. How would there be a difference in the way that our brothers and sisters in the

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Old Covenant worshipped on the Sabbath than we would? Am I allowed to pass on any questions?

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That's a really good question, and honestly, I've never really thought through that. I probably should, actually.

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But I can think of one that's already been—the answer is in the question.

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Obviously, the day has changed. That's one. Second, we no longer look forward to the

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Lord's work. He's accomplished that work. And so, as New Testament Christians, as it were, we now look back on the finished work of Christ, and so we functionally celebrate not what's coming, what's going to come, which was in the

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Old Testament pictured in type and shadow through the sacrifices, through the slaying of animals, and that would be another difference.

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Obviously, we don't do all that. We don't need to do all that because Christ has accomplished that in His work of redemption.

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So we look with joy and gladness to the accomplished work of Christ, both through His death and, more importantly, or as importantly,

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His resurrection. And so that obviously has a significant difference between what the

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Old Testament saints were doing. They were constantly ministering under or worshipping under that shadow, that picture that was to come, not knowing the fullness of it yet, knowing it was there in a shadowy form but not crystallized in the sense that we have it now because when we look at what

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Christ has done at this point, having the complete canon of Scripture, knowing what He's accomplished, we can, with greater awareness, greater fullness, a greater weight of glory, perhaps is maybe a better way of looking at it, we're able to worship in that sense.

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So we worship in the fullness of it, but yet we still, even today, we're not... we still are looking forward, and this is really a critical thing, in that the

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Sabbath for us, the Lord's Day, is a shadow still of what awaits us as believers.

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We all look forward to the great day when we will worship in spirit and in truth in perfect totality, when we will enjoy the saints in heaven in perfect worship before God on the throne.

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And so that's what the Lord's Day really is picturing for us. It remains because of that reason.

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We still need that reminder that there is still something awaiting us in the new heavens and the new earth that's going to even be greater than what we enjoy even as New Testament Christians today.

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So, as it were, we're kind of in that intermediate spot awaiting the Lord's return or where we'll then worship.

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But I think the salient differences are obviously the sacrifices, the slaying of animals, the ministry through an earthly priest, worship through an earthly priest, worshiping in type and shadow, not having a full understanding or a fuller understanding of the ministry of Christ is a big difference, not to mention the day itself.

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And we do have a listener who uses a word that you just used that comes directly out of Scripture.

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We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who says,

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How do Sabbatarians such as yourself respond to the often repeated argument against Sabbatarianism that is alluded to in Colossians 2, it starts at verse 16,

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Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a

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Sabbath day, things which are a mere shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

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Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self -abasement and the worship of the angels, taking in his stand on visions he has seen inflated without cause by his fleshly mind.

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And the listener obviously included more on that text than we needed. Basically that text is really what we are looking for in the first two sentences.

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Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a

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Sabbath day, things which are a mere shadow of what is to come. So if you could respond to that, and the listener is correct, that is a very frequently cited passage by those who are not

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Sabbatarian, so if you could. Yeah, sure. I think what

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Paul is getting at here, there's two categories. He's referring to the food and drink issue, which under Old Testament law there was a clear division as to what the people of God were to eat, what they were to drink, and we know through Christ's work,

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Mark chapter 7, that he made all foods clean, and so there was no more this binding responsibility upon the believer.

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Again, because of what Christ has done, that food and drink became some kind of differentiating element between the people of God and the world.

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In the old economy it was designed primarily for that purpose, to set apart a people of God from the world.

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We know that that has changed through the ministry of Christ, and we have clear textual support.

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Mark 7 is one passage, there's plenty of others. The question of the Sabbath is the issue here,

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I think, as it relates to the question. In the Old Testament there were more than just a

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Sabbath day. There were other Sabbaths or festivals or other ceremonial practices that the people of God of old were required to keep, and there's a list of those.

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Many of them are born right out of Leviticus. Again, those were ceremonial in nature and no longer in the

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New Testament because of Christ's work binding. And so the question then for us as we look at Colossians 2 is, is

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Paul speaking specifically about the moral law, the fourth commandment, and is he now, by making that statement, is he passing on to us that we no longer have to follow it, we're not bound by it, we don't have to worry about it?

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And I don't think that's his argument at all. I think the Church of Colossae is wrestling with some superstitious, supernatural questions relating to angels, relating to ceremonial issues.

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I should have anticipated this question, but I didn't, but that's okay. But one writer makes this comment about it, just so happened to have it here, but he says that here the

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Sabbath was, in Colossae the Sabbath was kept and festivals observed in order to placate supernatural powers or angels throughout, a thought to direct the course of the stars, regulate the calendar, determine human destiny.

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Thus Paul says it is a form of bondage from which Christ came to liberate men and women. So if that's the issue, according to this one commentator, if that's the issue, then he's clearly not referring to the fourth commandment, but he's referring to other superstitious practices that have bound over this church and placed them in a form of bondage of which

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Christ has freed them from. So no, I don't think here Paul is even talking about the fourth commandment.

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I think it's safe to conclude that either A, he's talking about these superstitious practices of the

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Church of Colossae, which is highly likely, or possibly the new moons, the festivals that the

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Jews were obligated to uphold prior to the first advent of Christ, but now because of his coming no longer bind us in a ceremonial way.

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So that's why we don't do Feast of Unleavened Bread, although that's Passover and that's now represented by the

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Lord's Supper, so there's that fulfillment. And we don't do these other feast days any longer because those are all ceremonial and type pointing forward to the work of Christ.

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If that's true, those are discontinued. Well, something just popped into my head that's very important as to a difference between how those observe the

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Sabbath and the Old and New Covenant, is that if your brother is mowing his lawn on Sunday, I'm sure you're not going to call out for his execution.

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No, probably not. No, I think the law in its third use is written for believers and for the redeemed.

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That doesn't mean that the law is not relevant or binding upon all men. In fact, it's the very law that God will use to judge the nations.

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However, as God's redeemed people, we have subjected ourselves voluntarily by our coming to faith in Christ and repentance of our sin to live in submission to his rules.

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And so, you know, what does Christ say? If you love me, you'll keep my commandments. And that doesn't just mean the things that he said in the red -letter editions of our

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Bibles, which I think are a disservice to the Church. I'm not besmirching people with red -letter Bibles. I have them.

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But all of Christ's words are contained within the 66 canonical books, and so where we have a clear precept of Scripture, a clear command, as redeemed people, we should want to follow.

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We should desire to be obedient. We should have a great joy to serve Christ in that way. And so those commands are no longer burdensome to me.

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They are fulfilled in the sense that Christ has paid the debt for them, something I cannot do, and I can't keep the law perfectly, never could.

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That's why he had to come. But as a response to the work that he's done in accomplishing everything that I couldn't accomplish,

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I want to with joy please my Father in Heaven, and so I keep them, or I labor to keep them.

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Knowing I'm going to fail daily and thoughtward indeed in every one of these points. However, there's still

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Christ. There's still repentance. There's still forgiveness of sin. There's a great freedom. And that's what he said, right?

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Come to me all who are weary and heavy laden. I will give you rest. My burden is easy. It's a burden, but it's easy.

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It's not like of old. It's now been fully accomplished in his work, and so I can look to Christ with great hope and joy to be obedient to all that he's told me to do, not just the words that we find in the

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Gospels, but all across the Scriptures. Okay, I'm going to read a question for you, and I'm going to have you answer it when we come back from the first break, which we have to go to any moment now.

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But we have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who says,

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I have frequently heard from my Sabbatarian friends that the exemptions for working on the

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Sabbath are for works of necessity and works of mercy, and examples would be provided such as those on the police force, those in the military, and those who are physicians or nurses or caring for the sick and disabled and wounded in hospitals and in other places.

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Would you agree with these exemptions, and do you have any others to add to the list?

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And we're going to have you answer that when we come back from our first break. If anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com, and please give us, as always, your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away.

28:49

We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

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A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

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S's in the middle. I hope to hear from you soon. God bless you. Chris Arnsen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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And we are now back with Bill Hill, one of my favorite guests, and the pastor of Fellowship Presbyterian Church, a

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Presbyterian Church in America congregation in Newport, Tennessee. We are discussing the theme

41:21

Observing the Christian Sabbath Without Becoming a Legalist. And before the break, as you may remember,

41:27

Pastor Bill, we had a listener, Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who said he wanted to know about the reasons why someone might be given a pass on working on the

41:43

Sabbath because of works of necessity and works of mercy, and he had listed among those works, working for the police department, being a soldier in the military, working for the military, and also being a doctor or a nurse, a healthcare worker, etc.

42:02

So do you have anything to add to that? Do you agree with that? And do you have anything to add to that?

42:08

Yeah, no, I think he's absolutely right, and I think we have that principle. This is why those who try to argue that the

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Sabbath is not repeated in the New Testament, therefore it's been discontinued, I don't think that's a good hermeneutic anyway.

42:27

I think we should assume that all commands of God are binding until we have good reason exegetically to say that they've been terminated.

42:35

I don't think the Sabbath is one of those. We have two clear examples in the ministry of Christ where this principle that your listener is drawing from, and the first one is in Mark, Mark chapter 2, beginning in 23.

42:49

I'm not going to read the whole passage, but this is the Pharisees, they come to test Christ, you know, David did what wasn't lawful to do on the

42:57

Sabbath, and Christ goes on basically to argue that David was hungry. And because of necessity, which is the filling of the belly, the body needs sustenance, it needs food, it was lawful, it was okay for him to do what he did.

43:15

And then he goes on to make that great statement that I would suspect most of your listeners are aware of, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the

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Sabbath. Now, here we have the principle of necessity. We have that work of necessity that was clearly done on the

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Sabbath day as given by the example of David and his cohorts, and that particular example that the

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Pharisees used to try to trap Christ. But there Jesus took opportunity to explain the spiritual nature of the

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Sabbath to begin with. At first, you know, man was not made for, the

43:50

Sabbath was not made for man, but man was made for the Sabbath, and this is the issue that when it comes to works of necessity like eating, driving your car to get to worship, your son falls down and breaks his arm and you have to drive him to the hospital on the

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Sabbath day, that's a necessary way of living.

44:12

You have to do that. You have to eat, you have to perform those functions. And then you have the other passage which highlights the other principle.

44:22

And where is that passage? Hold on a minute, I bookmarked it. I'm glad I had a break, so I could look these passages up really quick.

44:28

But in Luke chapter 6, we have the principle of acts of mercy where Jesus healed on the

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Sabbath day. The Pharisees said, you're doing what's not lawful. Of course, there it was perfectly lawful.

44:43

The Pharisees had attached a legalistic, kind of gets to our program topic, a legalistic addendum to the spiritual sense and fuller meaning of the

44:54

Sabbath day. Jesus heals this man of a withered hand on the Lord's day on the

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Sabbath. They accused him of breaking the Sabbath day, but what was he doing? What was he demonstrating here?

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That the Sabbath was designed for acts of mercy in a unique way.

45:10

It's not that we shouldn't be merciful people on a Tuesday, but the fact is it's often much more difficult for us as people to do those kinds of things that we might want to do in our community, to our neighbors, our friends during the week because we have responsibilities elsewhere.

45:28

We have jobs to go to. We have families to attend to. We have all these other competing items that are good, competing for our time.

45:37

But on the Lord's day, we've been freed up from much of those things, and now we're able to devote them more so to the acts of necessity and the acts of mercy.

45:46

That really is what the fourth commandment is appealing to. I mentioned earlier that the fourth commandment sits on that edge between the transition between the first table of the law, love

45:57

God, and the second table, love others. We have this right there at the end, the first table.

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And I love God by worshiping him on his day, but I also love him by loving those that he has made in his image.

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How do I do that? Through acts of necessity and mercy. Certainly we should do that every day of the week, but more so afforded opportunity on those days, on that one day that God has given to us to do it.

46:25

Now, to the question specifically, this is the question. It gets,

46:30

I think, right on the edge of what we're trying to talk about today more specifically. The question is, okay, so what constitutes acts of necessity and acts of mercy?

46:40

Your listener highlighted a police officer and my wife's a nurse, and we've had this discussion.

46:47

Well, I'm a pastor's wife too. How's it going to look if I'm at work on the Lord's Day and you're preaching in the pulpit?

46:53

I said, what do you mean how's it going to look? It's an act of mercy. It's probably an act of necessity too.

46:59

People get sick on the Lord's Day. People rob stores on the Lord's Day. If the stores were closed, they wouldn't be able to rob them.

47:05

Well, they probably still could. But the point is that you need law and order even on the

47:10

Lord's Day. You need doctors who are working to care for the sick because people get sick on the Lord's Day.

47:15

We have that clear example in Luke 6, a man with a withered hand on the Sabbath, Jesus heals him.

47:22

Houses catch on fire on the Lord's Day. You have to have, these are acts of necessity, acts of mercy, demonstrated to the common good through the ordinary providence of God throughout our calendar year.

47:36

So those are all completely valid. Now the question, of course, then becomes, so what list is there?

47:44

And this is where it gets hard, and I get this question often. What list, what things would constitute acts of necessity and acts of mercy?

47:52

This is how I would typically or I'd like to typically answer the question. I can present you a list, and that's probably not going to help you at all.

48:01

The list itself isn't going to accomplish it. It's the spirit of the day. If what you're doing on the

48:07

Lord's Day cannot be in your conscience and through Scripture reasonably assigned to acts of necessity and mercy, then it's probably not necessary or probably not an act of mercy.

48:21

But I leave that often for a person to wrestle with. I can certainly tell them.

48:26

I mean, I share my own personal story. I was a retail manager for a large grocery chain on the

48:32

East Coast for many years. And I came to an understanding of the Lord's Day through bitter tears and a lot of wrestling.

48:39

And I worked every Sunday in a grocery store. And I just had to finally come to the conclusion that I am not, this is not an act of necessity and it's not an act of mercy for me to do this job on Sunday.

48:51

And so I approached my bosses. I asked them if I could be freed from this responsibility on Sundays. I'd work six days a week if I had to, but I really can't do this anymore.

49:00

And anyway, long story short, I ended up resigning. And I had a pretty high position. But I had to come to that conclusion.

49:08

No one came to me with a big list of things I can and cannot do on the Lord's Day. And so what I typically try to get people to understand about the

49:15

Lord's Day is not what you cannot do, but what you get to do. A day that's afforded you differently than a

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Friday when you have to go to your job, when you have other things to attend to by God's providence. And as important, in fact, what can

49:34

I do on the Lord's Day that I just simply don't have time to do on a Friday or a Tuesday because of my other responsibilities.

49:40

And so certainly one of them is worship. But there's so many other things that we get to do. We have opportunities to do on the

49:46

Lord's Day that we just don't have afforded to us on other days. Acts of mercy, you know, visiting a nursing home with your family and taking your kids and showing them how to serve and minister to the elderly of the community, how to go to a soup kitchen, and, again, showing your children by example and ministering to people in your community who are having a hard time or struggling in life.

50:12

Sitting around your living room and hospitality and fellowship and inviting people over when it's just more difficult on Friday or Tuesday to do that.

50:20

It's not impossible. But Sunday is a golden opportunity, handcrafted by God, to engage in those kinds of conversations of hospitality and fellowship around a meal, talking about God's Word, discussing the sermon, praying together in ways that you just don't generally have opportunity to do other days.

50:38

And so I try to focus on what we can do, what we get to do. So I'm thinking about Isaiah 58, calling the

50:46

Lord's Day a delight, you know, looking forward to with great anticipation, look at what we get to do, look at all the positives that the

50:53

Lord's Day affords to me. And I try to avoid giving someone a list of things that says, you shall not do that, you shall not do that, you shall not do that.

51:02

So I do agree with your listener. There are those two categories, sure. So I am assuming, and I don't know this for sure yet because you haven't answered the question, but I'm assuming by what you just said, you would disagree with some of our

51:18

Reformed Brethren. I know Reformed Brethren who are pastors, at least a couple of them are mutual friends of ours, who have told me during private conversations that they would put under church discipline people who were violating the

51:40

Sabbath for reasons that they did not believe were permissible, such as going to a diner after church and things like that.

51:51

They were not leaving that up to the discretion and liberty and conscience of the person in the congregation.

51:59

I don't know if these pastors ever did that, if they ever did discipline the people for eating on a

52:08

Sunday at a restaurant, and I'm assuming that they meant if they were unrepentantly doing that.

52:14

But is there anything wrong with that? Or the better question is, do you agree that this is the job of a pastor or elders to police the lives of people who are observing the

52:31

Sabbath in such a way that they believe their conscience is clear before God, but the pastors and the elders might not agree with it?

52:38

Yeah, it's a very good question. I think I know one of the men that you're referring to, and I served as his elder, and I can at least during the time that I served as his elder when

52:46

I was in seminary, we never did that. We never disciplined anybody for that kind of thing.

52:52

If you were to put me into a corner and ask me, is going to a restaurant on the

52:57

Lord's Day a violation of the Sabbath? I would say yes. However, with that said, would I discipline necessarily for that?

53:03

Not typically, not usually, and here's why I say that. I didn't come to this conclusion on the

53:09

Lord's Day overnight, and most people don't. People had to be patient with me.

53:16

I'm sure I blundered all over the place, but as the Lord was patient with me and people were patient with me, as I studied and I listened and I tried to stay in submission to my elders and listen to what they had to say to me,

53:28

I began to see more and more clearly that the salient principles of the Lord's Day is driving forward, and that's the positive element of it, not necessarily the negative element of it.

53:38

So do I think going to a restaurant is permissible?

53:44

No. I think you're causing other people to work, by which you're causing them to violate the Sabbath, and so you're not helping them at all either, and you're certainly not helping yourself.

53:54

But most people who do that, at least in my limited experience, and it is limited, generally they're doing it out of ignorance.

54:04

They just have not wrestled with this question for a host of reasons, this question of the

54:10

Fourth Commandment. None of these people that would go to the restaurant would ever say murder is okay, that Jesus accomplished that.

54:16

Well, we would hope not. It's okay to murder. It's okay to commit adultery. It's okay to have idols in my house. They would never say that.

54:22

They understand it's very straightforward, it's very simple. They might want to murder the waiter if the order was wrong.

54:30

That would still be murder even if they at least had the desire to do it, right? So this issue is just bound up in so many different practical outworkings, and so I would press as a pastor,

54:44

I would just try to point them to the salient passages in Scripture, Isaiah 58, obviously the two mentions of it in the

54:51

Decalogue, both in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, Isaiah 58, the example of Christ, God's example in Genesis 2, and then just press them with the question of are you able, the purpose of the

55:06

Lord's Day is to put our whole focus and attention upon God himself. We're supposed to do that every day of the week, but the fact remains, again, by providence, we have lots of other competing things going on during the week that by, in God's goodness to us, he gives to us.

55:20

We earn our daily bread by working for an employer. Most people listening to this program probably have secular employers who could care less about the

55:29

Bible, God, Christianity, or any other thing, but you're still called to be a faithful employee there.

55:35

You're not called to sit around and read your Bible and study it and pray all day long instead of doing your job. You're supposed to work faithfully as unto the

55:42

Lord. But the Lord's Day, you have now afforded an opportunity to really do that, to really emulate what you're going to do for all eternity.

55:51

In fact, we have to go to our midway break right now and pick up where you left off there. I will. Good question.

55:57

This is our longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of our show because they localize

56:06

Iron Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida by airing their own commercials and public service announcements during this break while we air our own global commercials that are heard everywhere.

56:18

So please use this time wisely. Write down questions for Bill Hill on the Sabbath and also write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more successfully and more frequently patronize them because remember, as I keep repeating, the more you patronize our advertisers, the more likely we are going to remain on the air because we depend on the financial support of our advertisers who are purchasing those ads in order for Iron Trip and Zion Radio to exist.

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So the longer and the more frequently and more heavily you patronize our advertisers, the longer they are likely to remain our advertisers, which means the longer we are likely to remain on the air.

57:02

So please remember that. So write down as much of the information provided by our advertisers as you can and send in your questions to Bill Hill on the

57:09

Sabbath at chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away,

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God willing. We're going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors. Did you know that all believers are priests?

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I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

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That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. My name is

01:00:04

Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in midtown

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Manhattan. You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc

01:00:36

.nyc. They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

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.nyc. Have a great day. to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world.

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Performed with faith, joy, and sobriety. Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace

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Or call them at 908 -996 -7654 That's 908 -996 -7654

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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And then let them know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Thirdly, you can also donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio by going to our website at ironsharpensironradio .com

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and click support at the top of the page. But most importantly, keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in your prayers.

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We hope that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio blesses you for many years to come. Hello, my name is

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01:07:57

First of all, if you order any amount of merchandise from them, no matter how little the dollar amount may be, you'll receive absolutely free of charge the book

01:08:06

True Love, Understanding the Real Meaning of Christian Love by Dr. James M. Renahan, the president of IRBS Theological Seminary who sponsored this program.

01:08:16

This is a beautiful little hardback published by Evangelical Press. And all you have to do is order anything, and then put in the comments section on the website,

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Now, if you want a larger book, that's going to require a $50 minimum purchase.

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01:09:14

One of the reasons that I am so captivated and fascinated by it is that, tragically, Spencer Cohn, for whom this biography is written, is today, in our day and age, hardly known by anyone, which is such a horrible tragedy.

01:09:31

This man was very well known in his day. He was a prominent pastor in New York City.

01:09:37

Back then, they called them Particular Baptists. We would call them Reform Baptists today, although some people still use that term,

01:09:44

Particular Baptists. He was a school teacher.

01:09:50

He was an attorney. He was a stage actor in the 19th century. He was a war hero in the

01:09:57

War of 1812, and the pastor of First Baptist Church in New York City. His life,

01:10:03

I am to tell you, I'm not exaggerating, it should be a major motion picture. At the very least, somebody should film a documentary about this great hero of the faith,

01:10:12

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01:10:59

And remember, they only man those phone lines between Monday and Friday, 10 a .m.

01:11:08

to 4 .30 p .m. Eastern Time. Always remember to mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Then I have some special events that I want you all to attend, if at all possible.

01:11:20

I am going to be packing my bags this week and heading down to Franklin, Tennessee, for the 2019

01:11:28

John Bunyan Conference. Yes, this is a very meaningful conference to me because it is in tribute, in loving memory, of a friend of mine who went home to be with the

01:11:38

Lord in December, John Riesinger. John Riesinger had a lot of positive impact and influence on my understanding of Scripture.

01:11:49

I was a regular attender of the conference that he hosted, also called the

01:11:55

John Bunyan Conference, in Pennsylvania at that time. And although I had some disagreements with John, in fact,

01:12:02

John had disagreements with our guest today on the issue of the Sabbath, but nonetheless,

01:12:09

I learned a lot about the doctrines of sovereign grace from John G. Riesinger, brother of Ernie Riesinger, and he disagreed with Ernie over the

01:12:18

Sabbath issue as well. Ernie was the founder of the church where I am currently a member, Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

01:12:26

But in spite of any difference I had with John Riesinger, he is truly a very important person to me and a friend of mine.

01:12:37

I enjoyed interviewing him, I enjoyed fellowshipping with him and hearing him preach, and he was masterful at preaching the doctrines of sovereign grace.

01:12:45

Even those who disagreed with him on other issues could hardly disagree with that.

01:12:50

Well, this is going to be in his tribute, or in his honor, June 23rd through the 26th, that's

01:12:56

Sunday through Wednesday, in Franklin, Tennessee. And the speakers include such names as Gary Scott, personal friend of mine, who is an itinerant evangelist,

01:13:10

Peter Gentry, let's see here, they've got a pastor, Greg Van Cort, Dr.

01:13:18

Joe Kelly, Dr. Stephen J. Wellam, who has been on this program from Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Pastor Blake White, Pastor Gary George, a dear friend of mine going back to the early 1990s, a pastor in Massachusetts, Reverend Kirk Wellam, and Dr.

01:13:41

Tony Costa, who is one of my dearest friends. Many of you have heard Dr. Costa interviewed on this program, he is the

01:13:48

Professor of Apologetics in Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. He was my keynote speaker at my last

01:13:53

Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio Pastors Luncheon. So, these are all the men on the roster.

01:13:59

The music will be provided by Adams Road, an Evangelical Christian singing group, and, of course, other musical instruments as well.

01:14:12

But Adams Road is comprised of all former Mormons who have come to the true gospel and true

01:14:20

Jesus Christ of Scripture and have formed this band Adams Road. Well, if you want more information on attending this conference, the 2019

01:14:29

John Bunyan Conference in Franklin, Tennessee, June 23rd through the 26th, go to ptstn .org.

01:14:39

That's PTS, which stands for Providence Theological Seminary, TN, the abbreviation for Tennessee, dot org, ptstn .org.

01:14:49

And I hope to see you there June 23rd through the 26th. This December, Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th,

01:14:58

God willing, I am going to be packing up my bags again and heading back to my old stomping grounds,

01:15:04

Manhattan, to attend the Foundations Conference. This is a conference of sermon audio and I am so much looking forward to this conference as I always do.

01:15:15

And what better time to visit Manhattan than during the Christmas season, which December 19th and 20th is surely right in the middle of the

01:15:22

Christmas season there in Manhattan. And the speakers include Dr.

01:15:28

Stephen J. Lawson, whose voice you hear every day on this show, advertising New Covenant Church, NYC, one of our sponsors, a congregation in Manhattan.

01:15:37

Paul Washer is on the roster, and what a powerful preacher he is. Rev. Jeff Thomas, another powerful, powerful preacher.

01:15:44

Rev. Armin Tomasian, and I constantly remind our audience I really believe he's going to be a household name over the next decade amongst

01:15:52

Reformed Christians because he is extraordinary. He is one of the most powerful preachers, most gifted preachers

01:15:58

I've ever heard, and yet he is a very young man. He has gifts and abilities far beyond his youth.

01:16:04

Richard Caldwell Jr. and Andrew Quigley are two men I have not yet heard preach.

01:16:09

I'm looking forward to hearing them preach, though, because if Sermon Audio selected them for this conference,

01:16:14

I am confident that they are magnificent as well. So if you want to register for this conference, the

01:16:20

Foundations Conference, a conference of Sermon Audio on December 19th and 20th, that's a Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th, in Manhattan, go to thefoundationsconference .com,

01:16:33

thefoundationsconference .com. And a friend of mine makes fun of me because I exaggerate the word the in that website, thefoundationsconference .com.

01:16:41

That is because many people will leave off the word the in a website, and I was doing that for the longest time and not connecting to the right websites, and that's because I was leaving off the word the.

01:16:52

So remember, it's thefoundationsconference .com. Then, coming up in January, from Thursday, January 16th, through Saturday, January 18th,

01:17:01

I am returning to Atlanta, Georgia, more specifically College Park, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta, to the

01:17:09

G3 Conference. The G3 stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory, and this will be held at the

01:17:16

Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia. The theme of this conference is on Worship Matters, and the speakers include

01:17:26

Kosti Hinn, the nephew of notorious charlatan

01:17:31

Benny Hinn. Kosti Hinn has renounced the heresies of his uncle and family and of the entire

01:17:39

Word of Faith movement. He is currently a Reformed Baptist pastor in California and a cessationist, and a great deal of his mission in life is to expose these charlatans in the

01:17:50

Word of Faith movement for who they are and to warn people about their deadly, dangerous, and damning delusions.

01:17:58

So make sure that if you can attend this conference, it's worth attending this conference just to hear

01:18:04

Kosti Hinn, believe me. David Miller is on the lineup. What a powerful preacher he is.

01:18:10

A name very familiar, I am sure, to nearly everyone in the Iron Trump and Zion Radio audience, at least those who are

01:18:16

Reformed. Derek Thomas is on the roster. My friend for so many years, going back to the mid -90s,

01:18:24

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. Dr. Joel Beakey, also a friend of mine since the early 1990s.

01:18:32

Josh Bice, who is the founder of the G3 Conference. Once again, we have

01:18:37

Dr. Stephen J. Lawson and Paul Washer on the roster at this conference. My friend,

01:18:43

Dr. Tom Askell, who is the Executive Director of Founders Ministries, and that is the

01:18:49

Calvinistic ministry within the Southern Baptist Convention. And Votie Balcombe, one of the most powerful preachers alive in the 21st century.

01:18:58

I strongly urge you to attend this conference. Go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

01:19:04

And I would also add to this, if you have a business or a parachurch ministry that you want to promote to the body of Christ, this is an ideal conference to set up an exhibitors booth, because there will be over 5 ,000 people there, as there are every year.

01:19:18

I will have an exhibitors booth there as well, God willing. And I hope yours is near mine. So not only register to attend, but register for an exhibitors booth at g3conference .com,

01:19:28

g3conference .com. And I would do so quickly before they run out of room for exhibitors booths.

01:19:34

So keep that in mind. Always mention Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio when responding to any of these commercials for events and other things.

01:19:45

Now, I want to remind you, even though I hate doing it, I need to remind you that if you love this show and you don't want us to disappear, please go to ironsharpensironradio .com,

01:19:54

click support, then click, click to donate now. We are in very urgent need of your donations.

01:19:59

We are facing a very frightening July financially. We barely squeezed through the month of June paying our bills.

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01:20:17

click support, then click, click to donate now. And you can also mail in a check via snail mail, if you prefer, made out to ironsharpensironradio, to the address that will appear on the screen when you click support at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:20:29

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01:20:35

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01:20:44

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01:21:02

click support, then click, click to donate now. We lost a very large advertiser recently, a church that had been faithfully supporting us, but they lost some families who moved away, and the income that was lost by those families moving away devastated the church financially too much to continue advertising with us, because even though they did get people to join the church as a result of their ads with us, we can understand that if the people that left have left them financially unable, we're not going to hold that against them.

01:21:34

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That income alone was helping us pay our rent. That income alone was paying our rent here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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So, please help us replace that. Donate as heavily as you can and as frequently as you can at ironsharpensironradio .com

01:21:55

and click support, then click, click to donate now. If you want to advertise with us, please send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

01:22:02

We really could use your advertising dollars. And if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, and you're not prayerfully looking for one, you're living in rebellion against God.

01:22:11

So, please send me an email. If you need help finding a church, send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com. I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world, and I've already helped quite a number of people in Iron Sharpens Iron Radio's audience find churches that they have joined and also find churches for when they're going on vacation or for loved ones that live in different parts of the world.

01:22:29

So, please send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put I need a church or something like that in the subject line.

01:22:37

That's also the email address where you can send in a question for Pastor Bill Hill on the

01:22:43

Sabbath. That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And Pastor Bill Hill, before the break, we were discussing the, yes, discipline over whether if someone had violated the

01:22:58

Sabbath in the opinion of the elders of a church. Yeah, it's a good question, and not everything in the church rises to the level of discipline.

01:23:14

Again, I mentioned just the fact that it took me, well,

01:23:20

I don't even remember, a long time to come to an understanding of these matters through patience of others and whatnot.

01:23:31

I think there's a distinction, obviously, between a person who's been carefully taught and instructed in these issues who just absolutely refuses to heed these things as opposed to somebody who's trying to figure it out and working through it, and you've just got to be patient with them.

01:23:46

I mean, the Twelve Disciples were kind of rock -headed on most issues, and the Lord was pretty patient with them, and I know he's been patient with me.

01:23:53

And so I often say to my elders as well as other members in the church that these theological issues are not merely theological issues.

01:24:02

They're also pastoral issues, and they have to be handled carefully and with lots of patience.

01:24:09

And our mutual pastor friend that has come up, it seems like every time we do this together, we win a talk about that guy, but he would tell me frequently to be more patient, be more patient.

01:24:24

And so just an issue of patience. However, it's interesting that, going back to the question that one of your listeners had about acts of mercy and necessity, on the break

01:24:36

I got to thinking about that a little bit more. You know, with the disappearance of evening worship in many churches across our country,

01:24:47

I think we do a disservice to those individuals who by necessity and mercy have jobs that require them to be not able to be in worship on Sunday morning because they're attending to the sick or protecting the community or whatever the case may be.

01:25:04

And not to have a second service in the evening gives them absolutely no opportunity to enjoy

01:25:10

God's worship together as with God's people. And so I guess in some sense

01:25:16

I'm exhorting those churches who don't have evening service.

01:25:23

Pragmatically, that's a really great reason. That's actually an excellent reason, a very good point.

01:25:30

If you want to continue with your thought, we actually have a listener with a question that involves what you're saying. All right, very good.

01:25:36

But do you want to continue your point? No, no, I think I made it. I think, you know, we have two services of fellowship.

01:25:44

It's not as well attended as the morning, which I think is prototypical of most churches, but it's there in the event that, it's not the only reason, of course, but it's an option.

01:26:00

I'm not suggesting that people should just skip Sunday morning because they can come Sunday night. That's not the point. But if, for providential reasons, necessity and mercy and whatnot, they're sick or whatever the case may be, they have that opportunity in the evening to still attend to the preaching of God's Word and His worship.

01:26:20

When we take that away from God's people, we don't leave them anything. And I don't think that's very helpful.

01:26:27

Well, we have a listener, Christopher in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who says,

01:26:34

I know of a church that stopped their evening service, and believe it or not, it was because they wanted to be more faithful to the

01:26:43

Sabbath regarding rest. They wanted to give more time for their parishioners to rest and fellowship with their own family, and they believed that having the evening service was robbing their congregation of that rest and of that fellowship with family that might not ever take place during the week.

01:27:04

What are your thoughts on that? Well, my knee -jerk reaction is, what a pity.

01:27:15

I'm sorry to hear that. I can't think of a better way to be together as a family than in the corporate expression of God's worship.

01:27:27

You know, we wonder why our children fall away from the faith down the road.

01:27:34

Well, because it wasn't important enough for us to go together to church both morning and evening.

01:27:42

No, there's no clear command in Scripture that thou must worship morning and evening on the

01:27:48

Lord's Day. That's absolutely true. I mean, I'll be honest about that. But I think the ebb and flow of the

01:27:54

Lord's Day is both by, and especially by example, through various passages,

01:28:01

I think we can make the argument that it is certainly extremely helpful.

01:28:07

It does help bookend the day. It does frame the day so that we're not free to just check the box on Sunday morning and then go play nine holes of golf or 18 holes of golf in the afternoon with nothing on the other side of that.

01:28:24

So, no, you know, I don't know that to sacrifice one thing for another and, you know, to say that, well, you know, it gives a person more time to rest.

01:28:36

Well, the purpose of the Lord's Day is rest, but it's not laziness. It's not a day that we just fritter away doing whatever.

01:28:47

It's a rest of a different sense in which we put our energies and labors into things that we might not normally be able to do during the week.

01:28:57

And I think a family that's healthy is engaged in family worship on a regular basis during the week.

01:29:03

Fathers, especially, who are actively leading their families spiritually, guiding them in those things, then

01:29:10

I don't see the need to cancel service on Sunday night so they can do that suddenly.

01:29:17

If they're not doing it on Tuesday, they're not going to do it on Sunday night. And so that's a different kind of a problem, and I don't think that solves anything.

01:29:25

I think it just creates more problems than it solves. But I'd have to think through that a little bit more, but I would not be in favor of it because I'm a big proponent of the ordinary means of grace and the preaching of God's Word, and I just don't think people get enough solid preaching of God's Word anyway.

01:29:42

And so to strip it back to once a week, I think, is the move in the wrong direction and, again,

01:29:49

I think pragmatically it doesn't afford the body that bookend opportunity on the

01:29:55

Lord's Day to be in God's worship both morning and evening, as well as giving opportunity to those who may be in a situation where they have to, by necessity or mercy, be in jobs that require them to be out of church on Sunday morning.

01:30:10

What do you think? Never going to go to church? Right. Would it be within the realm of seeking to prevent legalism that even if you disagreed with a church that had the policy mentioned by our guest that they discontinued their evening worship to give families the time to get together and rest together and fellowship together, because of the fact that there are many churches in our land that if a person has the convictions that you have, that they just don't go to that church, or they, in grace and love and kindness without harshness or bitterness, they part company with that congregation, they say, brethren, we love you, but we really are convicted that we have an evening worship, so we're going to have to leave.

01:31:06

I mean, it's not like every church on the planet doesn't have an evening worship service.

01:31:11

So would that be in the realm of trying to prevent a legalistic idea by letting other brethren conduct things as they see fit before the face of God, with their own consciences guided by what they believe the

01:31:27

Spirit is leading them to believe? Trying to see if I understand your question.

01:31:35

In other words, just because you are firm in your conviction about an evening service, should we judge other churches too harshly if their reasons behind not having two services on a

01:31:47

Sunday are at least trying, they're making an effort to be biblical about it, they're not just saying, well, you know, we prefer having

01:31:55

Sunday to watch football or something. If they're doing it because they really believe that their congregants are being deprived of rest and fellowship with the family.

01:32:05

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't want to ever be harsh, regardless of whether I agree with them or not.

01:32:14

You know, it's one of those issues, I guess I just have to get in front of the people that are making those decisions and just kind of flesh it out and try to understand, you know, what their argument is.

01:32:26

You know, I'm all for conscience and I'm all for trying to do things before God the way that they think it ought to be done for the good of the people that they're there to serve.

01:32:36

Of course, our consciences need to be captive to the scripture and so, I mean, that's just one of those issues

01:32:42

I just would have to really labor with them or flesh the work through it to try to understand what's the motivation here.

01:32:48

Is it just to make, kind of go with the culture that sort of has abandoned in these things for one reason or another because no one shows up anyway, so why have a second service?

01:33:01

And so, you know, we have 50 people in the morning and we only have 10 people in the evening, so what's the point of bothering?

01:33:08

I mean, I preach every week two sermons and obviously my life would be a lot easier if I only had to do one.

01:33:13

Sure, sure it would. Of course it would. But would it be easier for God's people?

01:33:20

I don't know. Now, I know a church, I'm not going to name the church because if you disagree with them I don't want to embarrass them, but I know a church, a confessionally reformed church, very right on the spot, accurate with doctrinal beliefs and practice and would be in a lot of agreement with you other than church polity and baptism, being a reformed

01:33:49

Baptist church. But they have two services every Sunday, but they have a morning service, they have a fellowship meal, and they have an afternoon service.

01:33:57

That kind of prevents people that are weary of traveling far distances from having to do so.

01:34:08

It prevents depriving people of that intimate fellowship at home with their family because after that afternoon service they can go home and they don't have to worry about getting in the car and some people obviously drive an hour, 90 minutes, two hours because it's not like there are reformed churches in many parts of the country.

01:34:32

I mean, if you live in Grand Rapids, Michigan, maybe, but in many parts of the country. I mean, you make a good point, and I think the

01:34:39

Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 1 talks about ordering these affairs according to the light of nature, and there are circumstances by which as elders in the church we have to be wise and prudent.

01:34:51

For instance, if I was ministering in a farming community, I would understand clearly that I have members, parishioners in my church that they have animals to care for.

01:35:02

That doesn't break the Sabbath, by the way. We're commanded to take care of these people, these beasts. I mean, that's a responsibility that we have, and we took it upon ourselves, and they need to eat.

01:35:12

And, you know, so how would we as elders, how would we operate in that particular circumstance?

01:35:21

Well, we would probably, I would at least try to move the session or move the elders to have an afternoon service, like you just mentioned, thus freeing up these farmers who have responsibilities on their farm to these animals that need to eat, need to be fed, taken care of.

01:35:37

They're able to do that. That's just, you know, ordering our affairs according to the light of nature.

01:35:43

If you live in a city situation where that's not the issue, then, you know, whether we worship at 5 o 'clock in the afternoon or 4 o 'clock in the afternoon or 6 o 'clock in the evening or 9 o 'clock at night, that's all immaterial.

01:35:59

It's a question of, it's not necessarily a question of when, as long as it's on the Lord's Day. It's a question of, you know, using some sense and understanding your congregation and where they are and operating within that.

01:36:12

So, no, I mean, as far as that example you just gave me, that's fine. I was in a church, I pastored actually a church that did that that way, and I actually liked it maybe a little more than I liked having a 5 o 'clock evening service, though I'm not against it, of course, but I much prefer the other way because it keeps us together for that period of time.

01:36:34

It really does strip people from excuses. Well, I live too far away and I'm not going to be able to get back.

01:36:40

But then you've got the other problem, of course, where you have young families whose children need to get naps.

01:36:46

They have to, you know, again, this is all ordering our day according to the light of nature and being sensitive to our congregation, and so you have 85 % of your church has young families with young children who just, they're going to go bonkers.

01:37:01

They're going to be off the walls if they don't get a nap by, you know, 2 o 'clock in the afternoon, and so they need that time to just kind of rest and relax and store up that, you know, do what's necessary so that they can come back on Sunday night.

01:37:16

So there's different circumstances of course, but I think canceling the service altogether for one reason or another,

01:37:23

I don't know that that's always the best course of action, so am

01:37:28

I hedging my bets? Probably a little bit, but I'm a big proponent of two services for reasons I've already stated, and I think the ebb and flow of worship throughout the

01:37:40

Bible does lean in this direction pretty strongly, and so now would

01:37:49

I besmirch a brother -sister congregation that doesn't do it the way I think it maybe should be done?

01:37:56

No, not necessarily, but I'd like to talk about it at least, at least find out why. So, all right, so I don't know if I answered your question.

01:38:05

Yeah, well you answered it the way that your conscience led you to answer it, and we have,

01:38:11

I'm going to read you another question, and then we're going to go to our last break, and you can answer it when we return.

01:38:18

We have a first -time questioner, Jackie in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

01:38:24

Why in the book of Acts didn't the apostles mention the Sabbath when they were instructing the

01:38:31

Gentiles on what restrictions they had, drinking, blood, immorality, etc.?

01:38:37

And let me go to that exact text. That would be

01:38:43

Acts 15, and if we start at verse 19,

01:38:49

Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

01:39:05

And for Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him since he is read in the synagogues every

01:39:13

Sabbath. Well, actually, the Sabbath is mentioned there. I'm glad you noticed that, because I was about to say, hmm.

01:39:22

Okay. No, but, you know, it's a good question, so let's deal with it after the break. I think

01:39:27

I have a reasonable answer anyway. Okay. And, of course, the

01:39:32

Jews were gathered on their Sabbath. I mean, a person who is non -Sabbatarian could use the argument that Paul is preaching in the synagogues on the

01:39:43

Jewish Sabbath to the Jews, you know, that many of them were not converted yet. Well, let me just make real quick, before you go to the break, the simple, and I'll flesh this out when we come back, but we have to remember what

01:39:56

Acts 15 is doing. Acts 15 is a critical chapter in the life of the first century church.

01:40:05

What is it trying to accomplish? And once you identify that, then you'll understand why the

01:40:12

Jerusalem Council doesn't even get into the question of the Lord's Day, because that was not really the issue before him.

01:40:18

So... Okay. Well, we will have you answer that in more depth when we return, and this is our final break, so if you want to send in a question, do it now to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

01:40:29

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages. Hi, this is

01:40:36

John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

01:40:44

Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

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I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

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I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris, if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

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where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's

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God's prerogative to determine how He shall be worshiped and how He shall be represented in the world.

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They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

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that's liyfc .org I'm Pastor Billy Linhard of Sovereign Grace Particular Baptist Church of San Angelo, Texas and I'm thrilled to have joined the

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01:46:01

Hello, my name is James Renahan and I'm the President of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

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S's in the middle. I hope to hear from you soon. God bless you. My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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.nyc. Have a great day. God bless you.

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That's linbrookbaptist .org. Welcome back, and Pastor Bill Hill, if you could continue on your answer to Jackie about...

01:53:27

Yeah, so let me just... I can see the clock and I'm... I just... let me be as brief as I can be.

01:53:34

Acts 15 is about the Jerusalem Council. It's the question whether or not Gentiles have to be circumcised in order to be engrafted into the

01:53:41

Christian faith. The apostles, the elders of the church, the First General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church, okay,

01:53:47

I couldn't resist... Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! ...said

01:53:55

unequivocally no. So then they get to the ceremonial questions and basically tell the

01:54:00

Gentiles the passage that was asked and the question. They basically tell the

01:54:06

Gentiles, look, don't aggravate your Jewish brothers by doing these things that you know will aggravate them.

01:54:12

And so the issue of the Sabbath is really not in view here, and probably because it's assumed.

01:54:18

Again, those who resist the question of the fourth commandment, really the burden of proof ultimately falls to them.

01:54:27

They're going to have to convince from Scripture that the fourth commandment, which is part of the moral law of God, is not binding anymore.

01:54:37

All the other nine commandments, nobody would argue, we've been released from due to the work of Christ.

01:54:45

So why suddenly is this one command suddenly ceremonial, suddenly released, we're released from it?

01:54:54

And I would argue that, and I have argued that, the fourth commandment is morally binding on believers and continues in perpetuity right until our heavenly rest, which is what the

01:55:08

Sabbath is a picture of, and so thus we're bound to keep it in a positive way and try not to accentuate all the, you know, rules and regulations of what you can and cannot do.

01:55:20

You know, I could sit here and give you those, but I'm not going to. Hey, wrestle with your conscience about this.

01:55:25

I mean, the question really is this. Why would you not, as a

01:55:30

Christian who knows what you've been freed from, that tyranny of sin, why would you not want to devote a day, you're already doing it in part anyway, by being in his worship, in God's worship on the

01:55:44

Lord's Day. Why would you not want to enjoy all of those benefits in part that you're going to experience in heaven?

01:55:52

That's the argument of Hebrews 4, exactly what the writer of Hebrews is talking about. You get to do that now in part.

01:56:01

What a blessing. Why would you not want to do that? That's the question. It avoids the whole legalism question of, can

01:56:07

I watch football, can I not watch football, can I watch baseball, can I not watch baseball, can I go to the restaurant, can I not go to the restaurant?

01:56:13

I want to be with God's people. I want to enjoy my Lord. That's what the

01:56:19

Lord's Day is about, and so I think we just get hung up when we start trying to parse out all these different issues, and instead of looking at all the positives, all the things that we get to do that are just a picture of heaven.

01:56:32

It's a picture of the new heavens and the new earth that we all want and we all are going to enjoy, and so I have often said from the pulpit, if you don't like the

01:56:41

Lord's Day now, you're not going to like heaven very much. Now, it's tongue -in -cheek, I realize, but it's really a true statement.

01:56:50

Don't you think, to wrap up the concept of not turning this into legalism, among those reasons or ways which we would not want to turn this into legalism, is that we should be examining our own consciences, our own hearts, and our own actions far more than we are observing our brothers' actions and the way they observe the

01:57:15

Sabbath. A thing pops into my mind immediately. We may look at somebody putting a new roof on a house on a

01:57:24

Sunday or mowing a lawn. We may not know that those people are doing it for an elderly person or disabled veteran, not their own property, and so therefore they are doing something.

01:57:35

Not, of course, forsaking the assembling of the Brethren by doing that, but they might be doing it on Sunday.

01:57:42

So don't we have to be very careful not to be Pharisaic in the way we are observing others and be more...

01:57:49

You don't want to start, you know, the spirit of the

01:57:54

Fourth Commandment is not what the Pharisees did. I mean, they attached all these issues, these things to it to try to protect it.

01:58:02

I mean, in one sense, you got to admire their zeal, at least, but they added to and then circumvented, because of such, the spirit of the

01:58:11

Fourth Commandment. The real question is, you know, is the fact that the

01:58:17

Fourth Commandment, unlike the other commandments, and the fact that the other commandments don't do this, but the

01:58:25

Fourth Commandment is uniquely equipped to flesh out of our own hearts, our own worldliness.

01:58:33

Why would I, as a Christian who has been afforded this day that is holy, there's no argument there, no one's going to tell me it's not a holy day.

01:58:43

If they want to, they're going to have to take up Genesis 2 with me, and we can talk. But why would I want to substitute this day of fellowship with God's people, and hospitality, and talking about the

01:58:55

Word of God, praying with brothers and sisters, acts of mercy, acts of necessity, whatever that looks like, so I can sit around and watch a football game.

01:59:05

That's, you know, that's the worldliness in us. We feel a pull to that, because we are worldly people.

01:59:15

And we're out of time, brother. Unfortunately. Yeah, and I just want to remind our listeners that if you want to find out more about our guest's church, where he is pastoring in Tennessee, go to fellowship -pca .org.

01:59:33

That's Fellowship Presbyterian Church in Newport, Tennessee. I want to thank everybody who listened today, and by the way,

01:59:38

Jackie in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, since you're a first -time questioner, you have won a brand -new New American Standard Bible, so we are delighted to present that to you.

01:59:47

I want to thank everybody else who listened and who wrote in questions, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater