Church Growth Fun Facts

No Compromise Radio and the Gospel-Centered Purpose of the Show

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. Pastor Steve Cooley, it is good that you�re here. The Tuesday Guy, I like that name. Do you? Yeah. Okay. Wasn�t there a show, I think maybe Jimmy Carraway did a show, and he had his associate pastor, and they did shows on Wednesday together.

And they called him the Wednesday Guy.

They did, and maybe that show is defunct. Dead. Muerto. I think there�s some people that want NoCo Radio defunct. Defunct. Muerto. Do not we say at the very beginning of the show, if you kind of like smooth, watered-down, you know, K-love radio, this show isn�t for you?

Don�t we say that, but people still listen, I guess?

They don�t take it seriously, like most things in life, right? It�s just our tagline. Well, I mean, like, hey, come on, do you ever read the user agreement? You know, it�s the same kind of thing. You listen to the intro, and you�re like, yeah, so what?

You know, you just kind of click.

When we first started, and we�re on the local AM Christian station, WVNE 760, people would call them, the station manager, and complain. And I think now we�re nicer than we were back then.

I think so, too. And by the way, it probably wasn�t me they called. That�s right. It probably wasn�t. Maybe it was the Wednesday guy. Yeah, it might have been some other guy, you know.

Travel Delays, a Funeral, and Preaching the Gospel at a Funeral

So you just got back from California. Anything you�d like to tell us about the trip?

It was really cold at Logan when I got back. How many hours were you delayed? Seven? Oh, it seemed interminable. I mean, it just went on and on and on. I think I was supposed to get in at like nine, and instead we got in at like, what time was it?

Two or three o�clock in the morning or something like that. So it was really only six hours, but it seemed a lot longer. I don�t know why. And you know, then I�ve just never seen Logan like that, because it was closer to four by the time I got my bag.

So maybe it was later than that. I don�t know. It just went on and on and on. But they were actually, I think, because I could see the luggage going around the thing and it said, some of them said JFK.

Well, the only way it would say JFK is if they loaded the people on the plane to go to JFK and then took them off the plane. And that�s what it sounded like. They were announcing flights that had been canceled and all the luggage that was being, you know.

So it was madness. But you know, my trip was very nice. Han and Heather Cho took great care of me, and I got to go to Grace Community Church. I did a funeral for my wife, or for my wife, sorry, scratch that, for my aunt, my uncle�s wife, Aunt Barbara, and got to see my cousins, and so that was about it.

When you do funerals, do you have kind of a set way you like to get into the gospel or do you change it all up?

I changed it specifically for this funeral because I anticipated, and I was wrong, but I anticipated there might be some Latter-day Saints there, some Mormons. And so I think there was only a couple, but I really wanted to stress justification by faith alone.

So I sort of changed things a little bit, and I even changed things on the fly. I put, because I had several points, and I thought, you know, I had the minor points first and then, or I'm sorry, I had the major point first and then just kind of the minor points as tack-ons.

And I'm like, why am I doing that? In spite of the fact that the text, John 14, 27, the text would put the major point first, I thought I could put the major point last and close with it, so I did.

Good. It's almost like you go to a funeral, and remember MacArthur and Larry King, and John asked behind the scenes, you know, what are you going to talk about? He said, I don't care what he asked me, I'm just going to go back to the gospel.

And with funerals, there's an aspect of talking about the person and, right, the common grace of God and why they were on the earth and how they affected people in a positive way and to speak well of them, eulogy.

But eventually, we just, to me, the only question is how do I segue from that to the gospel? Yeah.

And I really went, I mean, I don't think anybody who went to the funeral would say, oh, Stephen didn't talk about his aunt, because I did, and, you know, I made a lot of effort to make sure that we did speak well of her.

I talked to my brother, and I got all these kind of, you know, quotes from her and, you know, just different things that she did, because I wanted to honor her, you know, so. Amen. Amen. Well, I'm glad you're back.

My friend Wes was in town, and he, I think his flight was 11 hours late or something like that. At least neither you nor Wes were stuck at, what, Goose Bay, where they were on the runway for 22 hours without heat or something.

I mean, how does that all work? I don't know, but it was plenty, it was plenty cold when we got to Logan, so being stuck out there on the runway, I mean, just walking from, you know, the little tunnel thing where you walk from the airplane into the terminal, man, was it cold.

It was really cold. The other day I was doing a show by myself, since you were gone, about this little insert I received in the mail. I say I, it says Stephen Cooley on it. I did not notice that. Dude.

I opened your mail. I feel like I've been pilfered. Do you know what that, is that a federal offense? But it was by accident.

It is a federal offense to take somebody else's mail.

Yeah, but it came to this same address that I'm at. Accident. Schmaccident.

I mean, Stephen Cooley doesn't look anything like Michael Abedroth.

Yes, but on the front it says, Pastor Resources, and if it would have said Associate Pastor Resources, I would not know. Oh, shots fired. Anyway, it was one of my favorite things as a new pastor in 1997 here at the church, when there would be mail sent, kind of, you know, junk mail and promo mail and advertisement mail to the church, because I never had been on the receiving end of that, right?

It was just weird things, you know, VBS advertisements and CBD catalogs and stuff like that. Well, here we have Pastor Resources, and so my show that I did last week without you, I just page by page opened it up, and this is important because it helps pastors grow churches.

If you had to give a summary, a real biblical summary, of how pastors need to be helped grow churches, what would you tell them? Let's see if it's the same thing that I said last week. I don't know.

Maybe preach the Word. I mean, you know, go to the end of Colossians and say that you want to establish everybody, you know. So, I mean, that's what we do. We establish them in Christ, right? How do we do that?

By preaching the Word. And we do that in the pulpit. We do it, you know, away from the pulpit. We do it in season, out of season. This is what we do. Why? Because it's the one sure means we have of sanctifying the people, right?

The Holy Spirit works through His Word, so why would we do something else?

Not only at the end of Colossians, but it just popped into my mind, Colossians 128, an interesting word order, Him, talking about the Lord Jesus, we proclaim. I mean, it'd be one thing to say, we proclaim Him, which is true and right, but it's Him front-loaded.

We proclaim, for a good emphasis, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom that we may present everyone mature in Christ. So, I guess if we're talking about maturation of saints or adding saints, both of them are the work of the Holy Spirit through the Word.

I agree. And so, you know, how do you grow the church? I don't know. You know, if you're, but see, here's what they should say. Helping pastors grow their churches in number, you know, bringing throngs of people into your churches.

And if that's what you want, dude, set yourself on fire and watch people come in. Or you can set people on fire, you know, you can set yourself on fire for Christ and watch people come in. And it's going to be two different crowds.

Entertainment, Stewardship, and the Judgment of Teachers

Steve, let's just say between you and me, we had to entertain people and attract an audience. And it had to be a, not a three ring circus, but just one, you know, kind of like Circus Circus in Vegas. And we had to entertain in some way, shape or form.

Seriously, what would you do? I mean, is there anything that you can do. Well, juggle?

You know, in all candor, I think I'd be more entertaining than you, but I, you know, I'm just saying. Yeah, but what would you do? Just like stand up?

Is that, is that, you're gifting? I probably could do it. Can you, can you juggle? Um, one thing at a time. Okay. I mean, can you like, I don't know, wiggle your ears or something? Yes, I can do that.

I can. I'm very good at ear wiggling. You know what, if we came from, uh, you know, our last names were Barnum or Bailey or Ringling or brothers, maybe we had, we would, we would know what to do. Or brothers.

You know, just, you know, we're just making things up as we go along, as David Byrne said. But maybe we could do something, but we only have the word. Aren't you glad that we simply have something to hide behind and then proclaim, you know, to guys like us?

Yes. Um, and the, and the reason I'm glad for it, I mean, I wouldn't want the responsibility, right? I mean, how would you like to stand before God? James three says, you know, that not many of us should be teachers because it'd be held to a stricter judgment.

How do you like to stand before God and say, you know what? I did everything I could to pack unregenerate people into the, into the pews. And you know, what do you expect them to say? Well done. You know, thank you for, you know, making people's lives a little bit better and a little bit lighter and giving them a little bit of hope during the daily grind while they were getting ever closer to hell.

Thank you.

I mean, Satan would say that. The Lord isn't going to say that. I think you've missed the textual variant on that. Well done. If you look down at your textual apparatus at the bottom, it doesn't say, well, it says your.

Stick a fork in you, you're dumb.

Fascinatingly, 1 Corinthians 4, 1 and 2, this is how one should regard us, Paul said. He's talking about the apostles, but I think it is very applicable to us as well. As servants of Christ, of the Messiah, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found trustworthy. And even in words like servants and stewards should tell us something, right? We're not entertainers, we're not entrepreneurs, we're not all these other things, we're stewards and servants.

Well, another way to understand that in the Greek is, you know, when it says servants, another word for that is innovators. I like that. That's a cutting edge right there. Thanks. That's a whole new level.

And when it says, you know, like ministers of the gospel, another way to say that would be life coaches.

Well, you know, I told you sometimes I like your mentoring and sometimes I don't. Oh, thanks. See, here's the other funny thing about this little packet. I wish I could show our listeners on radio, but we can't.

It says Pastors Resources, 2019 of January. And then it's got Helping Pastors Grow Churches. But in between the word grow and churches, it's got, I believe, Robert Morris's Big Hair style. And so I look at this and I think to myself, Helping Pastors Grow Big Hair Churches.

And I'm thinking, this is TBN. Oh, I know what I wanted to talk to you about. I watched the other day on, I think Nightline or Dateline or 2020 or whatever that ABC channel is, a documentary on Praise the Lord Network and Jim and Tammy Faye.

It's a new updated one. And, you know, 30 years later, what's going on? It was intriguing to say the least. It was riveting to say the most. You should watch it. You just said the most. Okay, I'll have to look it up.

VBS Marketing, Kid Check, and Church Technology

Yeah. Okay. So I've been going through this Pastors Resources thing and we'll take the next page and I turn it and it says, 2019, Easy VBS. You know, that's always what I'm looking for. I'm easy.

I was actually, you know, on the plane out to Los Angeles, I'm walking through, you know, because I'm flying on JetBlue and I'm walking through the Mint section, which is the first class basically. And Keith Carradine was in there.

I don't know. Is he Kung Fu's brother? Yes. And, you know, from the Carradine famous family, acting family, he's saying like in the seventies, I'm easy. He was in a movie, I think the movie version of Nashville.

I didn't know that. And he's had quite a, you know, acting career. He's been on many TV shows and stuff like that. So, yeah. And I thought I put on Facebook, I go almost famous. I just saw Keith Carradine from, I mean, most people were like, who?

And I'm like, well, you know, you have to be of a certain generation and have a certain flair for really, you know, routine and useless information.

Steve, one time I was on an airplane with the family and it was back in the day where there was the one TV show for all, one movie for all. Yeah. And we walked in and in first class, it was probably Delta or United.

There's a famous actor and he always played guys that were kind of, you know, spooky. And so we didn't say anything to him, but we all said something to one another. Hey, did you see that guy? Yeah. Yeah.

We sit down in the plane and they take off and then they feed you the drinks and the snacks and then the meal. And then the movie comes on. It's a movie about that guy and he's the bad guy. And I thought, this is a Shyamalan night moment right here.

Ooh. I know. You are there. This is Roar. Life is wild. God is good. Now, I just want to know, Steve, it's got to lie in there and roar. Let's just talk about the slogan a little bit. Life is wild. God is good.

This is like, what is it? It sounds like it reminds me of a country music song. People are crazy. I'm trying to think of the whole lyric, but it says, you know, people are crazy and God is good. And I'm like, oh, it's kind of the same idea.

Well, first I thought this was maybe a Katy Perry song. Right? Yeah. And then it says, this epic African adventure engages the whole herd. H-E-R-D. At Roar, kids explore God's goodness and celebrate a ferocious faith that powers them through this wildlife.

Ooh. Now, I think I could sing a Docking Heads song right about now. This wild, wild life, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, uh-oh, you got the wild heart. It's only $244, $224 for the ultimate starter kit plus digital.

If you just want the starter kit, it's a lot less.

But I want the ultimate starter kit.

What do you do if, why don't you just wait, if you're a church, for somebody else to do see the big poster that they've got by the street, and then you say, could I buy that for 20 bucks? Is that illegal?

I don't, well, I don't know. I'd have to read the user agreement, right? I just click agree. Well, and that's what you do when you listen to No Compromise Radio. You get warned before it starts, and then you have clicked agree.

Now, this is something that isn't as funny. This is Are You Ready for the Royal Treatment, the best check-in system in all the land. Kid check, secure children check-in. That's kind of where we've come to in evangelicalism these days, and I want to make sure the kids are protected, and we get all that stuff taken care of.

There's probably a bunch of different competing ones, but I remember what it was like to check my kids into Grace Church, and I think they just did kind of like a, it was a piece of paper or something.

Yeah.

I, you know, I should have paid attention, because I was at an adventure club Sunday night, and I know you had to exchange a tag to get a tag, and I don't know if it was all computer generated or not, so.

Probably facial profile like my phone. You have to have, to get a kid checked in at certain churches, you have to have an iPhone 10 facial recognition.

Well, I mean, the way, you know, our insurance company acts, I would think that if Grace's was the same, they would have had armed guards in the room, you know, so.

Steve, with that iPhone 10, and you know how it does their face, and you have to move it around and all that stuff, I'm sure that's going to just be the way, you know, you go to Chuck E. Cheese, and you come in with your child, and you've got to have the same child when you walk out, and you know, I want my kids protected, obviously, so there'll just be facial recognition.

I'm sure that's coming. Well, I think so, and I mean, when you think about it, it would certainly, if they applied that to, say, credit cards and other things, it would be a lot harder for fraud, right?

Speaking of fraud, that leads me into this money one. There's a Start Church company, it manages donations, and it gives you contribution records, it gives you attendance and donor profiles, reports and receipts, and then electronic zaps for lower giving than 10%.

That's nice.

Your congregation will get a real charge out of it, yeah.

Giving, Worship, and the Place of the Offering in Church

Now, let's just talk about this in general. I know there's some churches, I just talked to a friend. He said at their church, they don't pass the plate. There are kiosks in the back, or people can just do it electronically.

And not that long ago, Steve, I was in New York City for an update with the doctor, and several restaurants, kind of like Chipotle restaurants, they weren't Chipotle, but similar, like you make your own bowls and stuff, it said right on the door, no cash, right?

So you don't have to have Wells Fargo come, and you don't have to have the proper change, it's just that little square thing, tablet, they have the order, and then when it's time for you to sign it, they flip it over 45 degrees, and you sign it.

No cash, well, and no robberies, therefore. Right.

And so then no counting or anything else like that. What about churches that just have a kiosk at the back, or you send it in, or they don't have an offering time? Here's my question. Since many people now give online through their banking and all that, should we still have a time designated for the public offering?

You know, people say tithes and offerings and all that, should that be part of the worship service? I think you know the answer to that. I do, but I just want to talk about it a little bit, because here's my point, Steve, I know I'm interrupting you.

Yeah, go ahead. Let's just say 99 of the people give online now through their banking. I can just tell B of A, cut a check every month for X amount. What if 99 of the people are doing that? Do we still then have a time for giving?

Well, first of all, give up on B of A. Secondly, yeah, you should. First of all, because it is worship, right? And so if you remove it from the worship service, then you're basically telling people that maybe it's not worship and it becomes a mechanical sort of thing.

I think we should, you know, always be open to, I'm not, and you know this, I'm not like a charismatic guy, but there may be times where people just feel, you know, moved to give. Well, why shouldn't they feel moved to give?

Why shouldn't they have the opportunity to just give spontaneously? Why would we take that away? And I don't think there's any particular reason to. So there's that. But more importantly, I just think it's appropriate to view giving as worship and to have it in the worship service.

I agree. One thing for certain, if you're not having a time for giving in your worship service because you think unbelievers will be offended, if you think the unbelievers will say they're only in it for the money, well, then I think you should say to yourself, the church is for Christians.

If unbelievers come, they're welcome here, all welcome here. But I'm not going to change my songs and my preaching, and I mean my, you know, as we put the order of worship together, because unbelievers might not like it.

I don't think they're supposed to like it, right, unless the Spirit of God is drawing them. Who would like that?

Well, I, you know, what is the church? The church is the gathering of the saints. If there happen to be unbelievers there, should they love a worship service? No, because they don't love Christ, right?

If the service is Christ-focused, unbelievers should be uncomfortable. That should be their natural position.

Amen. 1 Corinthians 16, now concerning the kiosk donations for the saints as I directed the churches of Galatia, so you are also to do. Just have your ATM. It's a kiosk. I went into our doctor, we have a mutual doctor, same doctor, and I went into that new building there by World Gym, and the first thing you do when you walk in, I mean, there's some greeters and stuff like that, that's go to the kiosk, right?

You go to the kiosk and check in and do all the stuff there.

What do you mean, like an electronic kiosk? Yeah, like ATM.

You mean there's nobody there? Well, there's some people over to the side, and there's a couple kind of greeters when you walk in, but then they direct you to the kiosk. And what do you do there? Scan your card?

Well, I think you say, your tummy hurts, and they send you to the tummy doctor or something like that.

No, but seriously, but I mean, there's somebody there, right, that you're talking to.

Over in the very front, there's a kiosk, to the side, there's some people in normal kind of receiving desks.

But see, we're talking about different kind of kiosks, aren't we?

These are just things that you have to go up and touch, touch to start, and you check in that way. So it's a check-in. Okay, so it's electronic. Yeah. Same, same. Yeah. I don't know if you can swipe your card for your copay, but probably.

Can you do an offering there? Well, I guess you can give an offering anywhere.

Think about the beauty of that, though, the kiosk at the church, because not only can you give there, but maybe you could put in your prayer requests, let any complaints you have be known, you know, or generate maybe random Calvin quotes and just put those in there and send them to your pastor.

You could put the Spurgeon Study Bible quotes in there, too. That'd be handy. You know what I did not know? In this booklet here, it says King James Version, the Spurgeon Study Bible, and by the way, the King James Bible would actually help pastors grow churches, right?

Any Bible would. Yeah, any Bible. So that one works. Holman Bibles. Holman Bibles. I did not know that Alistair Begg is the general editor of the Spurgeon Study Bible. Did you know that? I'm sorry to disappoint you.

Well, I like Alistair Begg, I like his accent, I like his preaching, but it probably should have been edited by Phil Johnson.

Yeah, somebody who, well, I mean, for all we know, Alistair Begg is a huge Spurgeon fan, you know, can quote him backwards, forwards, sideways.

He probably can, yeah. Now, pick an affordable Easter booklet. Now, we have to have giveaways for people that come to the church service on Easter. How does that work?

Well, what you do is you take one of the top books recommended by Oprah, you give it away on Easter Sunday.

Yes, but then I will lose my budget for the palm fronds that I'm supposed to buy the week before. I was asked several years, why don't we have any palm fronds here, Pastor? Because it's on Palm Sunday, or as we say in New England sometimes, Pam Sunday.

Pam. Yeah. Did you bring the Pam? Anyway, my name is Mike Abendroth, and I'm here with Steve Cooley, and we want you to know that whether it's home or at work or wherever, the Word of God is powerful and it does its work in those who believe.

Isn't that good to know?

Amen. Amen. I mean, what else would you use other than the Word of God? Amen.