What Happened at Southern Seminary?

Conversations That Matter

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

Okay, well this evening they wanted me to give a sort of a testimony of my adventures especially at the end of my time at Southern Seminary.

00:11

I taught at Southern Seminary. It's the, at the time, it still I think is the largest seminary in the world and it's in Louisville, Kentucky and it was founded before the

00:25

Civil War and it wasn't founded in Louisville though it came there later and it became a very liberal seminary really in the early 1900s and by this 1970s and 80s

00:42

I mean it was just I mean really liberal okay accepting you name it they would accept it basically but there was a so -called conservative resurgence in the

00:53

Southern Baptist Convention. I think it was a real thing, it was real, and in that they changed the seminaries and put them more in a conservative pathway and the man who took over at Southern was a man named

01:08

Al Mohler and he would be my boss for you know 22 years. Mohler was a liberal as a student.

01:17

He denied the doctrine of inspiration. He was very much for women pastors and things of this nature.

01:25

I mean he was he was the liberal there you know and he was like the assistant to the president at that time a guy named

01:35

Roy Honeycutt so when I heard that they had hired Al Mohler as the president

01:41

I'm like what are you doing because this was Roy Honeycutt's right -hand man.

01:48

There's no way he could be a conservative. Well, he started getting rid of the the liberal faculty and I thought wow this guy's the real deal he's a real conservative and he's changing things.

02:01

Then he hired me I said he has to be conservative you know but even when

02:10

I first got there it didn't take long and I noticed certain things going on that troubled me.

02:16

One thing is a professor for instance got up in chapel and he denied justification by grace through faith.

02:28

I mean one of the cardinal doctrines of Scripture he denied it. I can still remember his statement he goes

02:34

I looked for forensic justification that's what we believe in other words forensic is a sort of a legal term the idea of being declared righteous.

02:44

We're not infused with righteousness that's Roman Catholicism you see and they can confuse of course justification and sanctification but it was a he was denying the notion that we are declared just in the sight of God because of the work of Christ.

03:06

Well it just so happened that day I was sitting on the platform because I could look out there and look at the professors and look at their faces and boy their faces told the story.

03:19

I mean they were looking like this and I'm like oh and so and I and we're on television so yeah

03:27

I have to be careful what I you know looking over at Moeller but I could hear Moeller's Bible and I'm like uh -oh and as soon as he finished the sermon the man came back he was standing beside me

03:38

Moeller wheels between both of us and says I'll see you in my office right now and I'm thinking you is that singular or plural you know did he want to see me

03:50

I didn't do anything but but I thought I'll just go to my office and be quiet he'll call me if he wants me and he didn't call me it was the other guy of course because he was denying this but the man never had to get up and say you know that last chapel sermon

04:06

I kind of messed a few things up nothing it was just put under the carpet that bothered me and then later on in one of the classes where we were all the professors would be together he gets up and says that the author of Chronicles either just made a mistake or corrupted his sources well that's not exactly the doctrine of inerrancy there he's denying the infallibility of the scriptures and again nothing was done absolutely nothing so I already had kind of and then what

04:42

I would ask about it the response would always be well you got to understand when when

04:49

Al hired him he couldn't bring in a real great conservative at the time he just didn't have the power you know and so you've got to okay okay but this is this didn't ring is truthful to me it just didn't do it the problem came in matter of fact my last conversation with Moeller in his office he goes do you have confidence in me which was a very good question to which

05:17

I told him I'll tell you when I lost my confidence in you when you accepted sexual orientation now sexual orientation of course is the idea because usually the way it's described if you push him he won't answer you

05:32

I know of people Brian Fisher as a sort of a he was a radio talk show host

05:39

Christian radio talk show host and he kept trying to contact Moeller and say what do you mean by that are you as a person born homosexual he wouldn't answer the reason why he couldn't answer because if he says yes

05:54

I mean people are born homosexual if he says no then the question is when do they become and how do they become you see and so he won't answer that question but yet he whole he uses the very language which by the way he wrote just three years earlier that that was the linchpin doctrine of the homosexual movement for it to be accepted in America three years later he's saying

06:23

I agree with it he agrees with it you see and when I pressed him on it

06:28

I said well let me ask you this is there if there's a sexual orientation is there an orientation for thieves and he said yes is there an orientation for adulterers yes and I just kept going and finally

06:45

I said why don't you just call it a sinful nature and he blew up at me he didn't like that but it's a it's a it's just it's not serious he's he's accepting the views of the day that's when

07:03

I said we've got a real problem now if you understand he became president around 93 and if you go out about 15 years that's when you see

07:13

Mueller starting to go back to his liberal ways and the reason for that gap there

07:18

I believe is because I'll give you an inside scoop into how you know the president's basically can hand -pick their trustees who they're accountable to and so he's picking these guys who will be like more like bodyguards to him than people who will ask difficult questions when difficult questions need to be asked so by the time when he started turning back to accepting things like sexual orientation he had the trustees where he didn't have to worry about them he had hand -picked these guys then as I already mentioned

07:54

I was talking about my first contact with John Harris the mention of critical race theory and there was a man named

08:02

Matthew Hall who Mueller was going to have as his heir he was going to be the next president at Southern Seminary and that's when

08:14

I knew I had to do something and Mueller was afraid we were up to something because normally we had what is the issue was it was time to promote him and not only was he going to be promoted but we're going to promote him to the second highest position at Southern Seminary the first guy under Al Mueller he's going to be

08:35

Al Mueller's right -hand man and normally we're given a week's notice in advance so we can look at their stuff you know what they've taught and different things this time

08:47

Mueller gave us barely over 24 hours so I knew something was going on and when he said

08:55

I want to make you know Matt Hall this position I knew then if I don't say anything now there's no reason to ever say anything because if this guy gets this position and Southern Seminary is fully committed to critical race theory and of course critical race theory is what's so popular

09:14

I'm sure at Wisconsin University and all the major universities as a matter of fact

09:20

Matt Hall the man I'm talking about he went to the University of Kentucky and that's where he says he was he doesn't use this term but I'll use it infected with critical race theory and it's it's a very you know that when they say critical theory there and again the word critical think of the word criticize it's sort of a scathing criticism where you're tearing down so that you can sort of rebuild up in a very leftist way but now you're not only are you using let's say extreme criticisms to tear down but you're using race and you know how volatile that is in our society race is the you know the the the issue it's the original sin of America and so forth and there's racism in every organization or what's the term institution every institution will see this is systemic racism and so molar and a guy like Matt Hall will say look you can have an organization and not even have an racist in the organization but your organization is still racist and so what

10:30

Matt Hall said was like Billy Graham and the Billy Graham organization was racist it was it was white privilege it was had systemic racism now

10:44

I have my disagreements with Graham on some things that's for sure but at the same time his problem wasn't that but yet they were looking at it again from again so white privilege systemic racism all the buzzwords were being used on the campus and so forth and it was being taught by principle so what just you know well we're just taking these terms and using it our way which is very deceptive by the way anytime you hear people say that molar does this all the time it's very deceptive why are you using the language and then when people call you on it well

11:17

I don't mean the same thing that the whole world means by it in other words do we have to have a now molar dictionary you know as opposed to the dictionary we all use so it's a real problem when they claim that well

11:29

I use those terms but I don't I don't believe in Marxism so therefore I you know our cultural

11:34

Marxism where you know Marxism is sort of like a perpetual warfare between the haves and the have -nots okay and so being white we are privileged and so we're like the landowners in so we're the bad guys and we're the oppressors you see and if you're white that's what you are so what

11:59

Matt Hall did and you can see this on YouTube he goes I'm a racist and I'll always be a racist and all this stuff well that's he's not saying that he's a racist but he's believing and he's totally you know swallowed this critical race theory and because he's a white person and he's got the privilege all the privileges of white people in our society and so forth there you know this is just critical race theory pure and simple being taught which is very counter to scripture in Christ there's neither

12:33

June or Gentile you know these types of things and so again it's very much anti -scripture that's not the only problem we have like postmodernism being taught and it's hard to describe postmodernism but let me just say what the professor was teaching he would say things like this let me get more concrete for you

12:52

Isaiah 53 very famous passage in the Old Testament he says has nothing to do with the

12:59

Messiah has nothing to do with Jesus no Jew he would say would ever read it that way only

13:05

Christians who've been brainwashed to read Christ in the Old Testament would see it that way well he's never read the rabbis because I can show you rabbi after rabbi who says that verse in Isaiah 53 is talking about Messiah that verse that verse they do and you can even look at the official

13:23

Jewish interpretation of Isaiah 53 it's called a Targum and the very first line there is my

13:31

Messiah will prosper you see that starts back in 52 to them so they take

13:36

Isaiah 53 and really back it up a few verses but again the first few verses they even use the word

13:42

Messiah right there so to say only Christians have been brainwashed to read it that way he doesn't even understand the

13:50

Jewish reading of the text has no clue what he's talking about but yet he believes that we've been brainwashed to read

13:57

Christ in the Old Testament there's a lot of problems with this one is the New Testament quotes

14:04

Isaiah 53 and says this is referring to Christ you see and we had professors on campus you know there was verses you know there's verses

14:12

I'll raise up a prophet like unto me this is Moses talking in Deuteronomy 1818 and one of our professors said well just because Peter and Stephen say that does that mean we've got to believe that and of course the implication was no but where I would say yes if Stephen and Peter says it or if just Stephen or if just Peter says it we must believe that you see because that's they are especially

14:40

Peter is an apostle he has apostolic authority in his teachings and we must believe this you see and but again they would reject they thought they knew more than the

14:52

Apostles and things like this so it came time where if I didn't say anything what was going to be the use to say anything in the future this was the time this was the place it's always easy to say no the big battles to come you know hold the powder dry all those kind of you know statements

15:15

I knew I had to say something and I would

15:20

I was having trouble sleeping you know it was hard to how do you look those students in the eye you know heresies being taught and you go along and these students are being corrupted and I'm seeing students corrupted when we hired one student who one professor who said the

15:44

Bible teaches mythology now mythology by definition is error how else can you say it so I was one day on the campus and a one of the students asked me they said dr.

15:57

Fuller I hear we're hiring an Old Testament guy and I said that's correct and he goes what do you think about him and I shook my head no and I said look he believes the

16:08

Bible teaches mythology and that's outside the line and he said to me that's why

16:15

I ask you I know I'd get a straight answer from you this guy I have a great respect for him he was

16:23

Indonesian and he's the most well -known Indonesian preacher and the

16:28

Muslims have a bounty on his head in Indonesia to kill him so he understands what you know he understands what this battle is about and so that he asked me

16:38

I was going to tell him and when I was in the principal's office getting in trouble I brought it up he did not tell me and I said let me tell you any student in good faith comes to me and asks about these professors not just him but the others

16:53

I'm gonna tell him the truth and I still remember Randy Stinson Moeller's right -hand man at the time if you do that you'll be fired and I said you better fire me now because when a student asked me something

17:04

I'm gonna tell him the truth I will not lie to these students and I wasn't about to do it and so when it came time to get up in front of Moeller and the rest of the faculty and make a speech

17:19

I'm a little guy I'm like Barney Fife you know and so I can feel my heart beating and it was beating quite well let me tell you it was it was the

17:32

I could feel the blood pressure I was shaking I had to read from notes and I was like this you know and it was it was it was not what wasn't pleasant and one time

17:46

I looked up and it's like everybody's eyes were like this big you know watching me and one guy said to me later says

17:55

I was watching Moeller the whole time you were speaking and he was getting angrier and angrier and angrier and so at the very end of my speech here's what

18:04

I said I said this vote will be the most important vote I've taken in 22 years at this institution this vote will tell us where we are theologically and where we're going theology that's theologically whether we're gonna be faithful to the gospel or not gonna be faithful to the gospel when it was over Moeller's response was simply to call me an idiot at the top of his lungs but yet he could not refute one thing

18:32

I said I said Matt Hall says this Matt Hall says that he says this all of these things are contrary to the gospel he could not come back at me at one that's why

18:44

I had to read it I couldn't be off a word I wanted it to be precise and then he started saying you don't believe in systemic racism

18:54

I said how do you define systemic racism and of course he wouldn't do it and again he was he was simply again defending critical race theory that's what he was doing and this is not a pleasant thing to go through but at the same time

19:14

I knew I had to and I knew in my heart I was doing the right thing and when you know you're doing the right thing even though the hearts beaten the blood pressures up you can do it in the grace of God and at the end of the day

19:32

I knew I was gonna lose my job I mean I was dead man walking after after that I knew my time was and I'll take this one more quick story when

19:42

I got finished I'm walking down the hall and it's it's sort of like a one guy's coming toward us we're coming across as you're like crossing a

19:54

T and all of a sudden I hear somebody scream my name Russell Russell and I'm thinking oh no

20:01

I'm about to get worked over you know somebody's about to kill me for what I just said and he was a philosophy guide he goes that was good because we needed to hear that he he was gone too and all the by the way we almost got a third of the faculty to vote against their boss the guy we were voting on but almost every one of those people they've all been pretty well gotten rid of now of course when they got rid of me they wanted me to sign a statement of non -disclosure

20:33

I was due to get paid if you know if you've been in teaching when you're done in let's say

20:39

May you're really done all the way through the summer until you start up again in the fall so I've completed all my stuff so technically

20:47

I should be not technically but I should be paid the rest of the time but they said listen if you want to get you the rest of your pay then you sign this statement that you can never ever say anything negative about Southern Seminary or anybody associated with Southern Seminary now look if we were making you know and I had special information about the chips of this or something

21:10

I could understand me signing a statement of non -disclosure to go to another company and giving out all the secrets of this phone here or something you know

21:20

I'm saying we're talking theology here we're talking Bible why are you asking me not to say one word you see

21:29

I wouldn't sign it but never would I sign that he couldn't give me enough money to sign that statement and so when it was over I called

21:42

John Harris and I said John when are we gonna have an interview when are we gonna talk and I still remember your words he said something to the effect of he goes

21:53

I was hoping you was gonna say that and it was during COVID and we met in Sioux City Iowa and it was everything was a ghost town if you remember because of COVID and we cut the three videos and you can go on YouTube and see it just put my name and his name in they'll probably pop up right up right away and I go into detail on what

22:21

I'm talking about at the end of the day again do you love your job more than the truth of the gospel does your job mean more can you look can you even look in the mirror look at yourself and not feel like I'm being disloyal to the

22:42

Lord and I just couldn't do it I had to say something I had to for the sake of the students

22:49

I was getting call from parents calling me on the phone and saying you know

22:55

I tried to contact you within 24 hours you and I are talking on the phone they said to me

23:01

I've been trying for three months to talk to Al Mohler to tell him how his professors have corrupted my son he won't talk to me

23:09

I can talk to you in 24 hours and she told me and she started using names that no you know she started giving all these scholars names and I know exactly who she was talking about and he's been reading this guy and this guy and it's destroyed you know this and that the other thing she was just saying you know and I saw this time and time again where students would be corrupted from believing the gospel what

23:38

I want to see students students do is when they leave a seminary they have more faith when they leave than when they came but what you were seeing was people's faith damaged and destroyed and that's what's going on right now

23:53

I was just told by a student there he's a former student that now he he saw where on even on Facebook there was a couple students couple guys holding hands so now guys are holding hands on campus sometimes that's where it's at right now and but the

24:12

Lord let me just say this the Lord's been very good to me and you when you the

24:20

Bible talks about living by faith you've got to do what God's Word says you're gonna sometimes you're gonna pay a price but just be faithful and see what the

24:33

Lord does I lost my job they took my benefits away

24:38

I was without insurance you name it but just depend on the Lord and watch the

24:45

Lord at work but you've got to walk by faith I didn't know what

24:50

I was gonna do someone asked as soon as I got what are you gonna do I don't know what I'm no idea and what happened to tell you they matter of fact it's the iPad

25:01

I have right over there they called me up I wasn't in the best of moods and they called me up and said hey you can buy your iPad if you want to well you know

25:07

I'm not exactly want to have any you know exchange of money with Southern Seminary and I was like I was about to say no and they go hey listen the guy who gets the prices really likes you just get a price

25:20

I said okay and he did he gave me a great price I said okay and so I went to pick it up when

25:28

I went to pick it up the guy looks at me and he goes you know what you ought to do you ought to go online and start teaching what you've always taught teach your theology teach the

25:40

Old Testament start teaching it online and I gave him a little grin and I said well thank you you know

25:47

I'm 60 years old you don't start your own business at 60 years old you know and so I just acted like okay

25:54

I'm thinking that's the craziest idea but I didn't say anything I said thank you I lived four minutes from the campus basically and by the time

26:04

I got home I went you know why don't I try something like that and I have two real close friends and they'll tell me like it is so and I thought they were gonna say

26:15

Fuller you've lost your mind so I called up the one guy I said now don't laugh at me please you know don't don't make fun of me but I'm thinking about this and immediately goes you must do it you've got to do it

26:28

I said really and then I called my other friend and again he'll be just brutal with me and I gonna please don't laugh at me please don't but what do you think of this idea and again he said the same thing you've got to do it and the

26:43

Lord has been very good I'm teaching more people now than I ever taught at Southern Seminary many more people

26:52

I can't get on I can't go on details but if you want to hear the details talk to me after this or not for this but we got to do a website you go to Russell T Fuller comm and you can get information on the classes and I tell you what you contact me and you want to just try out a class what

27:11

I can do is send you some videos of me and I make it where you know I've got people over 80 years old in my class

27:18

I've got people who've never been to seminary people I don't I don't try to be complicated

27:25

I just try to teach the Bible if you want the languages that's my specialty so you know if you want that we have that as well so if you want to just contact me

27:33

I'll send you some videos show you what I've done and what we do in class and if you like it take some classes it's very affordable very affordable and I even have a trustee at Southern Seminary working for me

27:48

Tom Rush he teaches classes for me I'm sure Dr. Moeller enjoys that one of his trustees is taking is teaching for me but great man great man he teaches a lot of the ministry classes fantastic guy you know and I have another

28:06

I have a couple of the guys that helped me out too but if you're interested you know give it a shot and again you're not you know with we stuff we do online if you can't make it to class one night we have it on video we can send it to you so you don't lose anything so again if you're interested in that let me know but I want to tell you and this is what

28:25

I'm going to conclude it with God if you'll walk in God's ways it could be difficult but God is faithful and he will bless you and I'm here to testify to God's faithfulness walk by faith

28:40

I I don't know I didn't know by sight where I'm going next when I first heard it I thought it was crazy but the

28:47

Lord has been very good just do what we're supposed to do walk in his ways be consistent with the truth and watch

28:56

God work count it all joy when you enter into trial because that's when you can see the

29:03

Lord really working in your life you know when things are good we don't trust in the