Sins of the Father - Rebuttal

The Pushback Over Reparations and the Sins of the Father

Yeah, I said recently that, you know, I don't have too much of a gigantic Twitter following or following on YouTube even Relatively big but but not that big in general. But whenever I get a tweet or or a message that that gets a lot of pushback you can you can bet it's one of two things either what I said was really stupid or Struck a nerve and so here's something I said that did get a good amount of pushback.

This was in the context of The BD onion wheelie trying to defend himself for saying that opposing Reparations is of the devil. And so we what he said was he didn't say that opposing it was of the devil.

He said that of you know, not wanting to engage in a conversation about it is of the devil. But even as backtracking is is preposterous because I'm not gonna entertain the idea that it's okay to make the sons pay for the sins.

The father's because the Bible is really clear on that. Here's my tweet said he says I won't even entertain a quote conversation. That seeks to make sons pay for the sins of the father's because the Bible is crystal clear on that.

That's not the influence of the devil. That's hearing and believing the words of the Shepherd. How do you like them apples? And so even his kind of backtracking was stupid. So so anyway I got some pushback for this people were saying that this is not as black and white as as you say are saying it is.

Look, I thought it was pretty easy to look at the Bible and to say look when you're talking about civil penalties. You know the person who does the crime does the time is so to speak, you know. You can't punish somebody else for somebody else's crime.

Like that's not how it works and and we kind of know that intuitively at least I thought we did. I thought I thought people kind of knew that intuitively but In case you don't there's a very clear verse about it in the Bible.

And so I thought that was that was something we could all agree on but apparently it's not. Yeah, I got a couple people pushing back and i'm not gonna i'm not gonna name this person he's a professor I think.

Uh, but he's not a blue check mark. So i'm not putting him on blast or anything like that. And so he responded i'm gonna read it in my i'm gonna read it in the way that I read it in my mind. Here's how I I I I I have this guy sounding in my mind.

Here's his snarky response ready. Because the second commandment is not in the Bible. The second commandments are on the Bible. And then he quotes the second commandment here's what the second commandment says in part.

He says this is about um, this is about idolatry the second commandment. And this and it continues it says you shall not bow down to them or serve them speaking of the idols. For I the lord your god am a jealous god visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.

So he said. You know, so my my claim that look the civil penalties can't be paid for by the sons, you know. The sons don't pay for the sins of the father, you know that that kind of thing. He's saying the second commandment refutes that.

Which to me is super preposterous, but Let's talk about it because he wasn't the only one who said this. So let's talk about the second commandment. You shall not worship them or serve them for I the lord your god.

Visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children on the third and fourth generation of those who hate me that's exodus 20. Verse 5 deuteronomy 5 verse 9 says the same thing. It's just a restatement of the 10 commandments exodus 34.

Verse 6 and 7 it says then the lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed the lord the lord god compassionate and gracious. Gracious slow to anger and abounded in loving kindness and truth who keeps loving kindness to thousands.

Who forgives iniquity transgression and sin yet? He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished visiting the iniquity of the fathers and the children. And on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generation.

So there you go. So there you go. Now this guy also later in a thread. He started saying that original sin the idea of original sin means that you're responsible to pay for the sins of your father your father adam and.

You know, you could there's a few different ways you could you could go about proving that but here's one that I found. It's first corinthians 15. And adam all die. So also in christ shall all be made alive.

And so he said he so see the sons can pay or should pay for the sins of the father um, and so to me like let me let me tell you how this argument works for me right because. Because if you say that that the second commandment says that the sons Um can be put to death for the sins of the father.

You've got a problem now. You've got a real problem. Because there are verses that say the exact opposite if you're saying that this is the context here because remember the context was Civil penalties we were talking about reparations.

A restitution for a civil crime that happened in the past visiting that iniquity and making the sons of those people. You know and again we can squibble with that because it's not even that it's just the skin color of the people.

Uh pay for those sins and so so we're talking about civil restitution. So if you're saying that the second commandment what it says there is about civil restitution now. We've got a contradiction because deuteronomy 24 verse 16 says.

Quote father shall not be put to death for their sons nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers. Everyone shall be put to death for his own sin. So now we've got a bit of a problem, don't we we've got a bit of a problem.

Now now here's the question. What what do you do in this situation, right? What do you do in this situation? Because we've got two verses they both seem to say something different. Do we just do we just pick one over the other and say, okay?

Well, i'm gonna pick this one so sons can be held responsible for the sins of the father. No, we don't do that. No, we don't do that. Do you see how many verses say the one thing versus how many verses say the other thing?

Well, there's three verses that say this one verse that says this. That's how we do this. No, that's not how that's not how we do this. What you do is you read the bible the way you would read anything you read it in its own context.

Right you read it in its own context. And I am committed as a christian. I believe this words of scripture are perfect. I believe they're infallible. I believe that they're inspired. And so I you know at the outset understand that I I believe everything the word of god says and god is not a contradictory Person, he doesn't contradict himself.

So I know that this doesn't contradict. Now this is one of the easiest ones like bible potential bible contradictions that I could possibly imagine. Um, it's very straightforward. So i'm not i'm not even really Confused as to or i'm not even really understanding why this is such a confusion.

But but but before I even get into the potential contradiction. Let me tell you how this sounded to me when I read it. So i'm saying i'm not going to entertain a conversation that um. Letting the sons pay for the sins of the father is biblical because it's so obviously not.

And then this guy says who was the second commandment not in your bible. To me when I heard that it sounded like this ready. Imagine if I said this I'm, not even going to entertain a conversation that it's okay to kill jews just because they're jews.

And then somebody comes up to me and says what is amos chapter 2 and not in your bible. And amos chapter 2 is a is an oracle of god saying how he's going to come in judgment and wrath against judah and um, and um, And uh israel and all that kind of thing.

So so so that's how it sounded to me. It's like What does that have to do with anything? What does that have to do with anything? So here's what's going on here and I want to say this in as patient as a way as I possibly can so exodus chapter 20 the 10 commandments we're talking about covenantal law here.

Covenantal law and god Is saying that god can visit the iniquity and will visit the iniquity of the fathers on the children. So in other words pagans gone peg, right pagans gone peg. And so pagans hate the lord and guess what?

Pagans are going to create more pagans. And so when they have their little bail worship sessions and the some of the kids end up dying in those bail worship session. But the ones that somehow make it through and are become adults.

They're going to be bail worshipers, too. And they're going to and and they're going to hate god as well because their parents taught them to hate god. And so so so that's going to continue through the generations until god does something about that, right?

And so so here's what the second commandment means god. Remember, we're talking about god. He's speaking. He's visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children okay, so god has um. The prerogative and the ability to do things that we cannot god can judge an entire nation for a national collective sin.

So I think god will come in judgment against the united states because of the sin of abortion, right? And I might suffer some of the consequences of that because the economy will tank. Someone will come and dispossess us of our land and i'm not going to be immune to that just because i'm a christian.

I'm not going to be immune to that even though god is not judging me personally. I'm an american so I will be affected by that god can do that, but we can't. And so the context of the second commandment is talking about god.

And the covenant that god makes it's a covenantal law thing. That's what the ten commandments are. Deuteronomy chapter 24 verse 16 where it says fathers shall not be put to death for their sons. Nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers.

But everyone shall be put to death for his own sin is a law that comes in the middle of all kinds of civil laws. And so we're not talking about what god does this in deuteronomy 24. We're talking about what god commands us to do with each other.

And so I can't hold you responsible for the sins of your father. God might be able to visit the iniquity of your father onto you, but that's not how it works for me and you. God won't allow me to do that with you.

Even if i'm a judge, even if i'm a king, even if i'm a civil governing authority that is not allowed. Okay, and so while god can judge entire nations and while god can judge generations and while god can hold you responsible for um.

For a collective sort of guilt type thing and that kind of thing that's fine. And nobody's refuting that god judges nations. Nobody's refuting that god God absolutely visits the iniquity of the fathers on the children.

But he also shows steadfast love covenantal love to the thousands of generations of those who who love him. So god works covenantally through people. Christians create other christians pagans create other pagans.

That this is what it's saying. Okay but On the civil realm in the civil realm how we deal how god commands civil governing authorities to treat people. It's individual. I can't hold you responsible for the sins of your father.

Okay, that's how it works on the civil on the civil level. And so these are two separate contexts. I was only talking about the civil level. I will not entertain something so preposterous on its face.

I won't entertain it. I can explain how the word of god teaches certain things. I'm not saying i'm not going to explain of course one of the one of the roles of an elder is to teach and to and to exposit the word of god, obviously i'm not saying that but.

But if you come to me and say well, it could be okay to kill jews just because they're jews. I'm, not even going to entertain that thought. I'm going to rebuke you. Likewise if you start talking about reparations and making the sons pay for the sins of the fathers or even worse.

It's not even that good even that would be better but it's actually making people with a certain melanin count pay for the sins of uh of Other people that had similar melanin counts maybe because we're not even sure if they did sin, but maybe they did maybe they didn't.

But they've got the right melanin. No, i'm not going to entertain that and no good pastor should I will not entertain that. All right, so I stand by. I completely stand by what I said. Absolutely. And so you don't like it.

No tough.