A Warrior Mindset W/Former DEVGRU Operator Bill Rapier

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When the scribes and Pharisees asked our Lord about the greatest commandment, He replied, You shall love the

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Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.

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So, why do we hear some of today's most prominent pastors saying things like this? It had everything to do with how we talk about the

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Bible, and specifically, or along with that, what we point to as the foundation of faith, which for most

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Christians, unfortunately, is the Bible. We need to do better.

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We need to love God with all our hearts, and stand unashamedly on the rock of His Word. We need to love the

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Lord with all of our souls, and respond to the worldview issues of our day with the wisdom and discernment that comes only from Him.

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We need to love the Lord with our minds, and understand the calling of God's people in every area of life in God's world.

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We need to love the Lord our God with all our strength, and face the work of building a life -giving, God -honoring culture.

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Join us for 10 days at the Runner Academy for Cultural Leadership, as we consider how the gospel influences all of life and culture, and the role that we have to play in applying foundational

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Christian thinking to every area of life. Non -rockabotas must stop.

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I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it! Are you gonna bark all day, little doggie, or are you gonna bite?

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Delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional.

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So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt. Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

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The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

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Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Right. Don't go into the world and make homies.

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Right. Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke,

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Pastor. When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

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And homies are journey that will blow, so you will never be the same again.

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Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle.

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He is my steadfast love and my fortress, my stronghold and my deliverer, my shield, and he in whom

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I take refuge, who subdues peoples under me. That would be

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Psalm 144, 1 -2. I bet you were going to bring up that verse, weren't you? I was.

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I knew it. He had it locked and loaded, but I beat him to the punch. What's up, everyone?

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Welcome back to another episode of Apologia Radio. It's been a couple weeks we've been off.

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We were in Germany for a week, I'm trying to remember.

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And then we were in Atlanta for a few days for G3. Had a really good time there.

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Really blessed time in Germany. We're so thankful for the opportunity God gave us to go there and help them start an abortion now in Germany.

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Nobody's doing anything to stop abortion there. So just a really cool opportunity. And I was personally very blessed because I'm half

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German, 48 .2 % to be exact. And you've got a lot of German in you, too.

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I do. And so it was kind of cool because I learned a lot about myself being there. And I was like, oh, that's the way and that's the reason

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I am that way. And that's why my mom does that and stuff like that. So it was kind of cool. But yeah, we'll have more coming from there.

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We'll have some, our talks and stuff we'll be putting up soon. So that's kind of helpful because sometimes

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I just look at you and say, why are you the way that you are? Yeah. And now you're figuring that out.

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That's nice. That's what my wife says to me all the time. It's true. And you know that. She says that to me every day.

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So, yeah, Jeff is Arkansas.

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I had to think about it. He's in Arkansas right now. We have a rally actually there. I don't even know. I think it's Saturday, Friday, Saturday.

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I don't even know what day it is. I don't even know what day it is. I know it's Thursday because of recording, but I'm still half jet lagged here.

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Yeah, so he's there in Arkansas. We got another bill going on there. So we're super thankful for that as well.

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But before we get into this, I want to, of course, thank our sponsors. We saw the video.

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If you're on here with Ezra Institute, we're grateful for them to partner with them. And of course, Ion Layer.

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And I'm waiting for my next package to arrive. But it's pretty awesome.

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And I don't even remember the code. I'm just failing miserably today. I think it's just Apologia. I think you just go and it's

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Apologia and you get a discount. And it's awesome. So check that out. And IonLayer .com,

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I believe is the website. That was horrible. That was just the worst possible sponsor mention

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I could have possibly done. All that to say, we're just going to get right into it.

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So I don't even remember when this post was.

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It was a while ago. It was months ago. Does it have the date on it? No, it does not. Pastor Zach sent me a what?

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Sorry. I'm feeling bad today. Welcome. Oh, thank you. Howdy. Appreciate you being on today.

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Yeah, absolutely. Another provoked Apologia collab today.

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Oh, yeah. So I was like, hey, dude, Bill Rapier is going to be on. He was like, oh, yeah, sign me up.

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So now I introduced our guest. So I'm just going to go ahead. Guten Tag, Bruder Bill.

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Vielen Dank. Sehr gut hier zu sein. Oh, that's all

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I got. Thanks for having me on, guys. Bratwurst. That's it. That's all. In case you didn't know, we had

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Bill on before. He spent much of his childhood in Germany. And you were more fluent in German before English, correct?

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I was. I learned to read and write German before I did English. That's crazy. How much of that have you retained?

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Most of it. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, it's a little bit frustrating because I can't share the gospel or talk politics in German, or at least not very well.

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But, you know, I can ask you if you want to play tag and go skateboarding really well.

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Dude, I got those words over there. I, you know, because you know this. They, like, literally just smash, like, three or four words together into one word.

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And you're like, I don't even know where to start with this word. And then they just are like, And you're like, what was that?

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Like, I don't even, was that, what was that? So it was just funny kind of seeing some of those words. And, like, there was the one, there was one word that just killed me.

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And it was on, like, a crosswalk. And it had three T's in a row. And I was like, because, like, one,

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I think, ended with two. And one started with one T or something. But there was, like, three T's in the middle of the word. And I was like, what is happening here?

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But they literally just smashed words together. It's a very descriptive language. Which, actually,

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I think if you understand, it helps. Because it's, like, you know what you're talking about. Because, like, the name of whatever it is, it's in the description in the word itself.

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So, anyways. Like, what's skateboard? Skateboarding.

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See. And there's words like that where they're, like, just throw, like, a da at the beginning or something.

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You call it, you call it, So, like, Germanizing a word. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, so there was stuff like that where, like, you just throw, like, this little word in front of it. And then it's just English.

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That's funny. It's a beautiful language. Yeah. Very aggressive language. Okay, so I'll tell the story real quick.

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Yeah, it sounds very angry. And so when

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I was preaching, I was using David and Goliath. And I was, like, trying to read, like, some life into this verse where, you know,

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David's confronting Goliath. And then my interpreter read it in German. And it was just so much more angry.

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I was just, like, yes. I was, like, let's fight. I'm ready to go to war. Like, that was incredible. And hearing

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Mighty Fortress in German was just phenomenal.

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Oh, that's awesome. It just changed the whole song, so. Ein fechter Burg ist unser Gott. And that's all

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I can remember. We actually sang that as a family the other day and started in German. My folks were over for dinner.

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And so we started that hymn in German. And then I think all of us, after the first line, switched to English.

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Oh, that's funny. That is hilarious. That is hilarious. Well, thanks,

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Brother Bill, for being back on. I've gotten to know Bill fairly well since we had him on.

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I don't remember when it was. I guess it was probably about a year ago, maybe, I think. And so for those that don't know who you are,

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Bill, why don't you just give a quick introduction to yourself. Yeah. So, guys,

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Bill Rapier, follower of Christ. I grew up as a missionary kid, lived in Germany for about eight years, lived in Southern Africa for a couple of years, went to high school in Colorado, joined the

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Navy the day out of high school, and spent 20 years in the Navy, the majority of that time, in the

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SEAL teams. We got to know a bunch of really cool stuff and worked with a bunch of really cool guys, and then retired nine years ago.

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Now it's crazy how fast time is moving. And we moved up to North Idaho and continued having children.

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I'm married, have seven children now, and my primary business now is

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Antec Shooting. So it's a training company. We go across the country and teach good Americans how to protect themselves and their families better.

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And then we also have a knife company, Antec Blades. We sell blades also for combative and backcountry use.

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Also super involved with our church. Yeah. I love this guy. He's just like, you know, most guys that were 20 years in the

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Navy SEAL are like, I'm a Navy SEAL. He's like, I'm a Christ follower. I love the humbleness.

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And we talked about it the last time you were on, just identity, and that's who Bill finds his identity, is

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Christ. And it's like, oh, yeah, I also did some cool stuff as a Navy SEAL. So you just did – well, no.

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Let's see how I'm going to tie this in. Talk about the Modern Warrior conference you did back in May because that's going to come into play with the conversation today and then tell us what you're about to do next week,

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I think you said. Yep. So the Modern Warrior conference is something that – so Antec Shooting is hosted.

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It has not been an exclusively Antec Shooting event. There's SAG Tactical is involved with that.

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Warrior's Way is involved with that. And then Master Jim, who runs some jiu -jitsu schools and MMA schools up in the

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New York area. So we're friends, and we all come together and do a conference where we get to – we train shooting and fighting and blade stuff and just a bunch of really cool manly warrior arts in that setting of an actual conference.

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So they're long days. We're starting in the morning, and we're going until like 10 or 11 each night. It's just a good time to get the guys together and do some training.

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And then – so next – you said next week, right, in Georgia? You're doing – tell us about that.

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And so that's – so the next thing we have coming up is called Developing Solid Christian Men.

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And so this is our first overt Christian event.

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So basically, as part of our business, right, teaching good

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Americans how to protect themselves and their families better, we talk about mindset. So every time I teach a two -day class, we talk mindset and about an hour, hour and a half long talk.

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And at the end of that, we talk about readiness for death, right, and kind of the industry buzzwords now, you know, dying well.

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And I just – it's a great opportunity. I get to tie that in and share the gospel and talk about the only way that we actually die well is being right with God through his son,

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Jesus. And then I just – you know, one of the things I try to do, you know, once or twice a year is just think about, hey, am

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I serving highest and best use for the kingdom with my life? And you start thinking about, well, if I have a sold -out class,

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I've got 14 dudes, probably more than half those – on average, half those guys are believers already.

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So maybe half the guys, you know, seven, eight dudes are hearing the gospel. And just looking at it, it's a fairly limited audience, right?

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You have to really be into training and then you have to have time off and, you know, all these things. So it's just the reach isn't that far.

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And so just started thinking and praying about we'd like to reach more people. And since so many of my students that host me already are believers and, you know, have home churches, we started thinking about, wouldn't it be cool to do something that is super cheap?

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Basically, we're just – we're charging 50 bucks and it's just so that people will show up. And then right underneath the $50, it says, if the $50 is keeping you from coming, email us.

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We'll work something out. So it's – and more guys can go to it.

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So this event is going to start with a little bit of the gospel.

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And just kind of talking about, you know, what are we supposed to be doing as Christian men?

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And then what does the world tell us that we're supposed to be doing? So that'll be, you know, kind of a short 15, 20 minute talk.

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And then we're going to go into smashing things, right? So learn how to throw elbows, headbutts, knees, move people around, do a little bit of blade stuff.

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We'll do that for a couple hours and we're probably going to do something hard. Something that gets everyone's heart rate up.

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A little bit of, you know, teamwork, something along those lines. So guys are sweating and breathing heavily at the end of that.

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And then sit them down and really just go through very practical things.

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Like what are we called to do as men? It's, you know, number one is love God. And then basically mini –

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I get to mini sermon underneath that. And then love your wife, mini sermon. Love your kids, mini sermon, right?

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And just go through a bunch of specifics that we should be doing as men.

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And then we'll do a call to repentance at the end of that. And yeah, definitely talk about kind of nominal or cultural

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Christianity. And it's not – we're not saying magic words in a prayer. This is a true repentance.

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You know, if you're convicted, this is going to be true repentance. You're making Jesus Lord of your life. This is not, you know, the light thing.

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And then we'll break bread together. Have some meal. It's in Georgia, so it'll probably be barbecue.

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I'm excited. It's going to be a good – please be praying for that. It'll be Thursday afternoon into evening,

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East Coast time. That's so cool. That's awesome. How many people do you have signed up for that? Just curious. We've got 22 guys signed up right now.

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And there's still slots available. That's awesome. If you're in that area, come on down. That would be so cool.

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Amtechshooting .com is the website to go sign up. There you go. I just saw that on the website. And Bill's going to be leading our man camp this year.

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That's got to be rad. Which I'm super, super stoked for. Very, very excited about that.

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Are you going to work us out? I think it's going to be the similar type format, so just more in -depth with the different combative skills.

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And, yeah, we probably will get some fitness in, get some high heart rate stuff in. We had a couple guys a couple years ago come.

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Bill knows them. I hooked them up. They know him. Yeah. And we were sore for like a month.

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That was two years ago now, wasn't it? Almost two years. Wow. Yeah, I was pretty sore for a while.

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I give those guys a hard time because they're starting a ministry. Well, Tamers and Spears, I can mention them.

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They were at ReformCon. But their little brochure they put together for it was like Jeff doing some

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Karate Ninja stuff with them, and you're looking all super awesome working out.

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And I'm in the background like, out of breath. I was like, guys, really?

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You had to put that picture of me? But I was dying 99 % of the time. The way they caught you looked like you were just killing it.

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Yeah, I was fooling them. And I looked like I was being killed. We want to talk about the warrior mindset today.

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Bill would be an expert in the warrior mindset. What kind of started this was, I started to mention this earlier and I got completely rabbit -trailed.

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Zach sent me a screenshot from a dear friend of ours. I'm not going to mention his name because we love him very much, and he's a faithful brother.

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So I don't want him to feel attacked or attack him, but I just want to address this, what he said and essentially the mindset of what he said.

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So he said, I've been a full -time street evangelist for 19 years.

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Something that has made me a better evangelist, biblically speaking, and something for which I am very thankful is when

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God, His gracious and kind providence, allowed me to mature to the point of repenting, of dropping the warrior mindset.

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The warrior persona and the warrior vernacular. What he replaced it with is a love for God's enemies, imperfect as it is, that would rather see my blood dripping from the end of an enemy's sword than his blood dripping from the end of mine.

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It's too easy as an evangelist when donning the warrior mindset to forget that the war is not against flesh and blood.

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It's too easy to fight with men instead of engaging in a compassionate fight for souls. It's too easy to find joy in crushing your opponent instead of loving him.

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It's too easy to sacrifice others instead of sacrificing myself for others. Thinking, talking, acting, and pretending to be a warrior for Christ is easy.

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Loving like Christ is hard. In my life, this monumental change in perspective and personality would not have happened if not for the place and authority of the local church, my local church in my life, which this is one thing we're very thankful for with this man is his love for the local church.

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We'll just stop there. When I read that, I was like, there's so many things in there that I feel like he's promoting that I would say, well, that's part of having a warrior mindset.

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I just want to hear, Bill, I want to hear your initial thoughts on that and then we'll just go from there.

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I think, number one, if you're equating warrior mindset with doing things in your own strength, then

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I would agree with them. If that's your definition of warriors, trying to do things in your own strength, then

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I would say, yeah, we shouldn't be doing that. I don't look at that as, for one, I think we also need to draw the distinction between warriors and soldiers.

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As I've always looked at it, there are historically soldiers defeat warriors.

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It is good when some of your soldiers are also warriors. As I look at it, the warrior might be an amazing fighter, but he may or may not have discipline.

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If you are a soldier, by definition, you must be disciplined. I look at the examples of the

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Romans, the five foot five guy fighting a giant

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Germanian that was probably a full foot taller than him. A Germanian was a better warrior than him, but the

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Roman fought as a unit, as a disciplined soldier and therefore, the majority of the time was victorious.

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I think it's good to differentiate that. I don't think that, as I was getting ready for this,

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I think the Bible has examples of guys that were not just soldiers, but they were also warriors.

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If we talk about some of the mighty men of valor, those guys were soldiers as well, but man, those guys are also warriors.

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If you're fighting for so long that you can't even let go of your spear anymore because you've been holding on to it for that long, those dudes are warriors as well.

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When you first sent me that text, I was looking at it and I'm like, man, there's so many good, solid things that I agree with in this statement, but I think his view of what a warrior is or at least a warrior for Christ is,

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I think is wrong. I would say that a warrior for Christ, absolutely, you might be called to lose the physical battle.

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He references this, the verbal battle or wanting to win an argument.

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Sharing the gospel is not about winning arguments. It's about us being faithful to the scriptures and presenting that.

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It's the Holy Spirit that's going to lead people to saving faith anyways. We're just vessels that have the privilege to be a part of that.

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I would look at that as part of the warrior persona or that the soldier is being disciplined.

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The Bible is full of examples of a soldier type vernacular.

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When he says endure as a soldier, the farmer, the soldier, the wrestler, the runner of the race, all those things, there's all sorts of times.

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It's never mentioned in a negative thing. We also don't see a call to repentance from soldiering.

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That's another, just looking at Luke 3 .14, soldiers also asked him, and we, what shall we do?

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And he said to them, do not extort money from anyone by threats or by false accusations and be content with your wages.

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He's not telling them to quit their jobs. He's just saying, hey, be content with what you have.

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Be honest in your dealings. Looking at that text, he's definitely, his heart is in the right place.

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I just think he has a misunderstanding of what the warrior virtues are. It's been a hard thing for me to think through as a believer and as a guy that teaches people how to protect themselves and their families.

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And I do talk about killing and whatnot. There's absolutely a time to protect yourself and your family.

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And I do believe there is a time to say, the lawful authorities are going to arrest me for being a believer in Christ.

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I'm willing to lose that one for the sake of Christ. If we look back historically, that's what the early church did.

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The gospel spread like wildfire because these guys, I think in Fox's Book of Martyrs, one of the centurions, after just seeing the faith of the

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Christians that he was getting ready to execute, went to his commander and said, hey, I am now a

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Christian as well. And just immediately steps over. To me, these are warrior virtues.

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If you're thinking warrior virtue to always win an argument or to be the tough guy or any of those things, those aren't warrior virtues to begin with.

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Exactly. That's machoism. There's so many things

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I want to say, but even the verse I read at the very beginning, Psalm 144, that was

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David. That's the dude that killed Goliath as a boy.

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Talk about a warrior mindset. He didn't come before Goliath and just be like, oh, kill me.

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I get that our friend is saying we shouldn't approach evangelism like we want to slay the enemy.

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I get that. But that's why when I first read this, my initial thought was, and I've gotten this from hanging out with you guys,

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Bill. It's a holistic approach to life, having this mindset.

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And what I mean by that is there's times where you might need to resort to defending yourself or your family.

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But that's like the last step. You need to be aware of your surroundings.

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There's a time and a place for everything. And so I feel like he's compartmentalizing this one aspect of being a warrior when really

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I feel like in all of life, again, that holistic view, you should have this mindset of all of life and know your surroundings, know what situation you're in, knowing what the proper time and place is for certain things.

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And yeah, we can have this mindset and go preach the gospel and not want to kill the dude.

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Right? We want him to come to Christ and want to share the gospel with him. But again, that's part of that mindset.

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But I'm going to just, I'll just let you guys talk about that. Zach's nodding his head, so I know he has some thoughts.

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Yeah, well, you stole everything I was going to say, Bill. No, I think it's an unbiblically pacifistic type of mentality here, especially when he says,

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I thank God that I'm not a warrior anymore. Because like you said, there's warrior, military, soldier vernacular that the scriptures are commanding us to put on, right?

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Things that are transferable from a soldier to a civilian, I guess, in a spiritual sense, like wage a good warfare.

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I mean, put on the armor of God, Ephesians chapter six. So I think, and especially for me, learning from the military, it's been beneficial to get through hard times.

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Like when we're counseling people and they're going through incredibly hard times, we talk about putting on the mentality of a soldier which is self -disciplined and strong and knows how to deal with hardship and is skilled.

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And that battle, that kind of understanding that we're in a battle, right? That's so good for a person as they're going through, especially like spiritual warfare.

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And they don't know what's going on. And it's God's ordained time for them to go through this and to say to the men and women through the years, hey, let's be strong.

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Let's be warriors through this. Let's understand we are in a battle. We do have an enemy who's a roaring lion and he wants to devour us.

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I mean, that's absolutely crucial for them to put on those type of thought characteristics and mentality, for them to kind of weather the storm and the fight that the enemy wants to throw at them.

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So what I'm saying is we better not take away a warrior mentality when the scriptures are commanding us to have one.

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We better not take away the soldier's mentality because that's God's prescription for us to put on for an absolutely

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God -glorifying purpose and a sanctifying purpose. So I think when you say things like this and you don't quantify it like you're saying, you kind of throw the baby out with the bath water.

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I can understand if you were to say, hey, when you go out evangelizing, and I've had to do this too, especially at the abortion mills when

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I got somebody spitting in my face or something. Right, I was going to mention that. Yeah, I have to not go into warrior mentality.

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I mean, you want to bite their face off when they spit you in the face, spit in your face, but you have to back off and say, no,

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I have to respond in humility. And like Jesus, like the scriptures say, Jesus was reviled, but he didn't revile.

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So that's important. So I think if you just went in and maybe surgically edited this a little bit better,

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I would be cool with it. But again, I just see some errors. Well, and Bill, I'm going to ask you a direct question here in a second because I actually got this from you.

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Stay on mission, right? Like that's part of the warrior mindset is you stay on mission.

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So you're talking about being at the abortion mill. What's your mission there? It's to preach the gospel. Like we know this, we don't carry weapons when we go to the abortion mill.

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Like we know if we're going there, we're going there to possibly die. Like we're going to take a punch, we're going to whatever.

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Like, and the mission is the gospel. So like in that moment, like that's part of that mindset is like staying on mission.

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Now you might be in a different situation where you are armed and someone attacks you and you have to defend yourself.

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You don't, as our friend said here, like that's not the time and place to be like, well, I'd rather be,

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I'd rather have the sword go through me, you know, than him. And you know what I mean? Like, and again, it's just knowing where you are, knowing what your mission is.

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Yeah, exactly. So he says, you know, he says what he replaced is with, what he replaced it with is a love for God's enemies and that would rather see my blood dripping from the end of an enemy's sword than his blood dripping from the end of mine.

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I'll tell you one thing. If a guy breaks into my house and he's accosting my wife and my kids,

31:19

I'd rather see his blood dripping from my sword than mine. If a guy comes into our church and wants to harm any of our flock, there's no way

31:27

I'm just going to lay down and say, oh, you know what? This is a spiritual war. We're not fighting against flesh and blood.

31:33

In that arena, in that category of life, no, you and I, we're going to absolute, we're going to war in that situation.

31:41

It'd be cowardice not to. It'd be totally cowardice. We would not love our sheep. We would not love our family if we just said, you know what?

31:47

I'd rather you die than me. No, we're going to war to protect our people. You see that all throughout church history too, especially the covenanters.

31:54

They did everything they could to abide by the law, but when it got so bad that they were going to kill their wife and kids, they picked up the sword and they went to war.

32:03

Yeah. We can go a number of directions, but Bill, I've even heard you in interviews talk about loving your enemy like you're literally praying for your enemy before you go to kill them.

32:18

Anyways, I want to hear you talk about staying on mission, because you had sent me a sermon,

32:23

I think, and you were talking about that. I was like, oh, I'm going to steal this for sure because it was such a good point. Yeah.

32:29

Staying on mission, we just have to always go back to what is the purpose? That goes back to what's our identity?

32:37

What is the most important thing? Why are we doing this? If you are, to go back to this guy's statement, if you're doing street evangelism to win an argument, and I'm not saying that this is what he's doing, but if that's your mindset, if that's your approach, then you're not following God's law to begin with.

32:58

We are supposed to love our enemies. That's part of a warrior mindset, would be to be... If I acknowledge that the number one most important thing in my life is

33:09

Christ, that's the most important thing, therefore, if that's going to be more than just words,

33:15

I better study what God's word says and dig into it. If I then do something counter to that,

33:26

I'm going off mission. It ties somewhat into the whole persona piece.

33:35

Not in a schizophrenic type way, but we all have different personas. My persona is the top one, follower of Christ, then it would be husband, then it would be father, then it would be involved with our church, and I get to do cool stuff and train people.

33:50

All those things are parts of it. If you allow, say, your warrior, I'm the protector, the sheepdog, for the people that like that analogy.

33:59

If you allow that one to be higher than any of the other ones that are more important, your life ends up falling apart.

34:09

It's super, super important to just stay on mission.

34:14

Always ask yourself, whatever you're saying, could you defend it biblically? Could you defend it before the

34:22

Lord? You brought up a great one, I think, talking about the difference with the abortion laws.

34:30

I'm going to screw this up a little bit, but the concept of incrementally chipping away at abortion laws versus just going, you know what,

34:38

I can't stand before God and say that a heartbeat law is just, because it's not, because at the end of the day, they're still killing babies.

34:47

We should be able to argue everything that we're going to do. If you're saying, yeah,

34:52

I think the taking of human life is not always immoral, and I would go back to, just looking at this recently again, what do the

35:06

Ten Commandments say? What's the word that's used? What's the context there? It's, I'm going to butcher my

35:12

Hebrew, trezach, which is way, way more commonly used for murder than it is for killing.

35:21

So we have to go back. Nowhere that I've seen in the

35:30

Bible is God telling people to stop soldiering. There's all sorts of heart change issues that he's asking people to do.

35:40

But I mean, actually, he commends the centurion, right? That says, you don't even need to come to my house.

35:46

You just say the word. I'm a man under authority. I understand it. All you have to do is say the word and this will happen.

35:53

I'm paraphrasing. So to throw warrior mindset as being a bad thing,

36:04

I think you're really missing a lot of so much good stuff that comes with warrior and with soldiering.

36:14

Psalm 144, I had that teed up as well. Ephesians 6, 11 through 17, the whole armor of God.

36:23

If we want to talk through soldier vernacular, put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil for we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

36:41

Therefore, take up the whole armor of God that you may be able to withstand in the evil day. And having done all, stand firm.

36:47

Stand therefore, right? Having fastened on the belt of truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, right?

36:53

Why do we put on those things? These are armor. These are fighting type vernacular that we're talking about.

37:00

But then also, the point of this is not, look at me, look at how strong I am.

37:06

The point of this is all of this comes from Christ. All of our strength comes from him, right?

37:11

So I think we can absolutely be warriors for Christ, be soldiers for Christ, but realize that nothing is of our own power.

37:21

It's all his power. I mean, another verse, 2 Timothy 2, 3, we share in suffering as good soldiers of Christ Jesus.

37:33

Right? I mean, that's, again, using soldier vernacular, right? Because what do soldiers do? They do stuff that is miserable, right?

37:41

You have to endure, right? Which, man, being in ministry sometimes, you have to endure.

37:47

It's hard at times, right? It's very, very hard at times. Right? So just, you know, sometimes taking it day by day.

37:56

I mean, that was a big thing in Bud's was just like one evolution at a time. Don't think about the next five days, the next month.

38:03

Think about what's the next evolution that I have to get through. Or if it's really hard, just the next rep that I have to get to.

38:10

So that, you know, being able to, you know, endure suffering, keep your eye focused on the prize.

38:16

All right? All those things, warrior, warrior mindset for Christ. The only easy day was yesterday.

38:23

Right? Man, there's so many things I could just get into right here. So, I'll just be honest, we're having a time right now as pastors, there's some stuff we're dealing with that's been difficult.

38:37

I literally said that very phrase to the pastors yesterday. It's just, you know, stay hard.

38:43

That's been the biggest thing we've got from you guys is just, you know, and that's part of that mindset, right?

38:49

It's like when you're feeling down, you're having a rough time, like just keep going. Pick it up. Like, you know, it talks about Christ setting his face like Flint.

38:55

Like, that's that warrior mindset. You know what? We're in the suck right now, but I'm setting my face like Flint.

39:02

I'm going to keep going. I'm going to keep pushing forward and do what I need to do. And so, did you,

39:08

I want to take it a slightly different direction. Do you want to add anything to that before I do? Oh, no. I was just thinking about, you know, what you thought of, you know, and your understanding of the teams.

39:18

If Christian men within the teams, they came under this type of unbiblical, pacifistic type of mentality, and they just said, you know what?

39:28

We're not going to kill bad guys anymore. Like, as you go backwards into your time in the teams, what if you just decided not to kill those bad guys?

39:37

You killed them for a purpose, right? And if we don't kill bad guys, people suffer.

39:42

And I'm not just talking about spiritual warfare here. I'm just talking about, you know, what you had to do. I mean, there's a time to kill.

39:49

There's a time for war. And so what I think is really, I think a disservice to the military is when this type of mentality is kind of purported in young Christian men who want to go fight for their country and kill bad guys to protect good people.

40:07

You know what I mean? I think if this, you know, gets it within the Christian church, there's going to be potentially a loss of a lot of quality men that could do really good for the country and for, you know, the teams.

40:20

For sure. And we need guys that are followers of Christ to stand up when things get hard and when guys do get emotional at times that realize, hey, there's a higher accountability here.

40:34

It's not just, yeah, so, I mean, there would be a massive loss if that would happen. And I would say that if you start saying, well, you know, soldiering is potentially wrong or unchrist -like, then are we going to say, well, law enforcement is going to be the same thing?

40:49

And then what's the next step from there? Protecting your family is also, that's also unchrist -like.

40:55

I mean, like, it's a slippery slope right there. Yeah, so, yeah.

41:02

I think that's a, that's something with it. I never dealt with guys that were pacifists.

41:12

Yeah. Right? I mean, it's one of the things I got convicted of after, you know, I've been retired nine years now and I talk about violence, you know, several times a month.

41:20

I give talks on, you know, mindset. And as, right, so I take very seriously the fact that I recognize that people will listen to what

41:29

I say and there is a responsibility before God to make sure that, that I'm right when

41:34

I talk about this stuff. And so, I look at, I think I was too lackadaisical about it.

41:41

It was never a big deal for me, killing in battle. Just, you know,

41:47

I'd grown up in the faith and it was always very clear to me that there's a difference between murder and between, you know, killing in battle.

41:57

And so, you know, now I look at, now what I tell guys, hey, it is, it is a very serious thing.

42:02

You know, the shedding of blood is serious. It's not to be done lightly. However, it's not always a bad thing.

42:10

Right? There's, you know, righteous use of violence and immoral use of violence. And, and we need to be able to differentiate that and be able to draw the line and say it's not, it is not the same.

42:21

If you execute a, you know, a known murderer, pedophile, whatever, that is not the same as, you know, clipping someone while you're driving on the way home.

42:31

And it's also not the same as killing someone in battle. Right. Right. So we have to understand, you know, we have to understand those differences.

42:38

And then, each one of those things has to be defendable within our primary worldview, which, you know, is follower of Christ.

42:46

Right. It has to be congruent. Yeah. I actually, I just watched recently an interview with my great uncle who was a

42:55

POW in World War II. He was a tail gunner in the B -17, got shot down over Germany. And he, he would never talk about it ever.

43:03

And then, they, he did an interview right before he passed several years ago. And I was just recently watching it and this reminded me of something he said.

43:12

And, you know, he's, he's a Christian and he said, he said, you know, if we, if I had to do this all over again,

43:19

I would because Hitler was evil and he needed to be stopped. And he's like, freedom costs something.

43:26

And I was like, I like, I like just, I got chills watching it because it was like, it was just, he's, he's had a big impact on me.

43:33

But to hear him say that, you know, and I'm like, man, like there's, there's something about that. I feel like the younger generations, uh, are missing.

43:43

Uh, and it's, it's, I think it goes back to this conversation. It's just having this warrior mindset where it's like,

43:49

I'm willing to lay my life down, um, when I need to, even if it's going to suck,

43:56

I'm still going to do it because it needs to be done. And I, I'm afraid that too, too many of the, the young men in our, in our culture, even in the church and the younger generations don't understand that they're, they're content with just, you know, being lazy bums and playing call of duty, um, and living with their moms until they're 35, you know, like, uh, like there's, there's something, there's something there.

44:19

So anyways, it just reminded me of that. I don't know if you guys want to add to that at all. Okay. So the other, the other thing

44:26

I wanted to bring up again, this is something I got from you guys. I think that, I think what our friend is really addressing what he's, what he's attacking is pride.

44:38

As I'm, as I'm thinking through all this, I think what, what he's saying is that we shouldn't be prideful and I agree a hundred percent and I think there, now if we're talking about machoism, that's nothing but pride, right?

44:50

Uh, it's, you know, look at my cool car and my big muscles and you know, like that's, that's full of pride but being a warrior is the exact opposite.

45:00

It's being humble and you know, one thing, like I said, I got from you guys is what's the, what's the, our biggest enemy, the three -letter word?

45:09

Sin. Ego. He failed. That also is true.

45:15

That's also true. But ego, but that's it, right? Like it's, it's what he's saying like because I, you know, as I'm reading this, this is something

45:22

I had to repent of years ago doing evangelism was, was pride and ego and like this idea of like I'm gonna just slaughter this guy with the gospel, right?

45:32

Like it was a, it was a, it was just puffed up like I have the truth, you don't and just haughtiness and like, you know, and, and I had to repent of that like I was convicted of that years ago.

45:42

That's what he's addressing but I, my point is like if you have, if you adopt a warrior mindset, you've, you've already put that to death.

45:51

You've already put, put ego to death. You're willing to be humble and you know, you're, you're, like for you,

45:59

Bill, like there's a time and a place where you might have to, you know, do things that most humans can't do but you're, that's your last resort, right?

46:09

Because you're gonna come into a situation humbly and not, not come in like, oh, what's up?

46:14

I'll, I can kill you in two seconds, you know, but like if you get to that point where you're backed into a corner and you have to respond, you're gonna kill the dude in two seconds but that's, that, that's that putting to death of pride and ego.

46:28

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I, I would agree. I, I think he's, I think he's mis -equating warrior virtues, warrior mentality, like I think he, or he is equating that with doing things in your own strength and if, if we approach, you know, in any part of ministry as look at me, look at what amazing stuff

46:50

I'm gonna do and I'm just gonna go in and crush this guy and you know, if, if we're looking at ministry that way,

46:56

I mean we're, it's not, it's not a, you know, Holy Spirit is not a gospel centered message that, that we're, we're doing.

47:05

If, if we're, if we're coming at it from our own strength, I mean all of this, you know, comes by God's grace alone and, and through his power and none, none of it comes, comes from, you know,

47:17

God doesn't need us to do this stuff. Right? We, it's, we're privileged to be a part of it and, and to get to serve in his kingdom.

47:26

He doesn't need our, you know, amazing oratory skills or, you know, muscles or, you know, shooting ability or money or whatever.

47:37

God doesn't need that. Right? God wants us to be willing and to follow him and to be obedient. Yeah. We got a little pushback comment.

47:44

It should be. Yeah, so I'm gonna ignore it. I was gonna see what he thought. You wanna ask him?

47:50

Yeah. Okay, ask him. So we got a, a comment from somebody on chat and it's going back a little bit but he says, except the

47:58

U .S. government SEALs and their teams have likely killed and assaulted unjustly by saying just obeying orders.

48:07

Would he concede that? If so, then no. His soldiering is not biblically defensible. So I'm saying,

48:13

I guess what he's saying is that the U .S. government and SEALs, they have likely killed people unjustly and the guys are just saying, well,

48:21

I'm just obeying orders. So if, if you're using, I'm just obeying orders to, to follow unjust orders.

48:28

Yeah. You know, there's, there's some guys back in Nuremberg that, that learned that that is not an acceptable defense, right?

48:34

We hung all those guys. Right. All the Nazis that said, I was just following orders. We hung those dudes. So no, you, you can't follow unjust orders.

48:42

That's important. The other side of that have, have innocent people been killed. Of course. I mean, that's part of warfare.

48:50

It's unfortunate when that happens, but it's absolutely a part of warfare. If you're sending in special operations guys to do something, does it still happen?

48:59

Absolutely. It happens sometimes. However, it is much more of a scalpel.

49:05

If you send in a bunch of guys that do have discrimination with their trigger pulling, then if you fly a big fancy plane over and drop a couple of bombs on it and you just kill everyone, which is very, very common.

49:18

Yeah, it absolutely can. I mean, in any warfare, you know, people get killed. People get caught in the crossfire.

49:24

Mistakes are made. I mean, there's all sorts of, I mean, it's, it's war. We don't, right. It's, it's one of the results of the fall and of sin, right?

49:33

So it's a, it's a bad thing that, that there is war, but within that, we better be as good at it as we can be because otherwise, you know, we'll have, you know, even more tyrannical things.

49:48

We'll have other people ruling us. Yeah. That are, that are even worse.

49:54

Yeah. Well, and I, and Bill, I mean, if you don't want to speak in this, you don't have to, but I, I've heard you in interviews, say one of the reasons you got out was because of who was in power here and you could no longer identify the enemy.

50:08

Is that correct? Yeah. So when the administration changed, we stopped going after Islamic extremists and we started going after VEOs, violent extremist organizations.

50:21

And that just, that bothered me a bunch. That wasn't the only reason. Right. But that was, I ended up leaving at 20.

50:28

But that definitely bothered me because the, I'm pretty extreme in my beliefs.

50:34

Yeah. Right. If we can't even name what we're, what we're fighting, it's pretty easy to go from, from one type of extremist to another.

50:43

Yeah. So, yeah, that, that, that bothers you. I mean, plus as, as a nation, like how on earth do, are we going to have any kind of coherent foreign policy if we can't even name who our enemy is?

50:54

Yeah. We're not fighting random violence, right? We're, we're, we're random extremists.

50:59

We're fighting Islamic extremists. We're fighting people that had a certain belief and that belief drove them to do the things that they were doing.

51:08

Yeah, man, that's the great tension. Cause we know some young men who are really seriously considering joining the

51:15

Navy. And, um, that's the big difficulty is, is them so desperately wanting to go in to serve their country and to put on the skills of a soldier and a warrior.

51:27

But then they're like, man, they're, they're voicing those same concerns that you just voiced. It's like, what type of administration am

51:35

I going to be under when I get in? What are they going to be asking me to do? But then there's a difficulty if you can't, you know, if you take the light out of a dark place, you're only going to have compounded darkness.

51:44

So if you take Christian men and good men out of the military, what, what's going to be left over?

51:50

I mean, it's going to be a pretty dark and godless type of environment. So, yeah.

51:56

Yeah. I would just encourage guys that want to do that, just prayerfully consider it and then think through your willingness ahead of time.

52:03

Like, what are you willing to do and what are you not willing to do? Um, you know, within the context of your, your

52:10

Christian beliefs, um, and, and draw those lines ahead of time. Right. I mean, that's the, that's the crux of the willingness.

52:16

If you don't think through your willingness ahead of time, you end up with regret, either regret because you did something that you shouldn't have done or you didn't do something that you should have done.

52:25

Um, and so I would just, I would counsel guys that, cause I get it, you know, the, the, the desire to,

52:31

Hey, I want to go, you know, I want to go test myself. I want to go, you know, fight, fight bad guys for, for the right reasons.

52:38

Um, and so I would just encourage guys to, to stay, you know, stay fully grounded and rooted in the word.

52:45

And, you know, I think if you're approaching it that way, then yeah, we, we need guys like that in the service.

52:52

That's, that's cool. That's, it's awesome. We've, we've asked probably a dozen seals, those types of questions.

52:58

And you, and that's been the common theme is rootedness in your faith rootedness in the word.

53:04

I mean, that's what they highlighted above any other thing else. When these young men and women, I've said something like, how should

53:10

I prepare myself? you know, what should I be doing? It was always, it's always been your faith and your rootedness and, and your, um, this, the stability that you have inside of your faith is going to be the central issue for you.

53:22

So that's awesome. Yeah. So bill, before we started, I'd asked you to think about if you had any, any stories where the, where this warrior mentality mindset like came into play as we've been talking, is there anything, any cool stories you'd want to share to demonstrate that?

53:42

I would say, I mean, nothing, nothing spectacular, just more the, when things become a grind, you know, uh, that the first couple of times going out and doing stuff for real, uh,

53:56

I literally remember sitting next to one of my buddies and there's rockets and we're here and, you know, we're doing pre assault fires, like a bunch of really cool stuff.

54:05

And I'm literally like slapping my buddy on the shoulder and we're both laughing because we're like, this is awesome.

54:11

We're at the show. That's how we looked at it. We're like, Hey, we're in the big leagues right now. Um, we really looked at it that way.

54:17

Uh, and so just the, you know, the, the fast forward a few years and, you know, we're down in Kandahar and it's just like, okay, we're like, we're getting it on every, every time we go on the ground, we're in a gunfight, like sometimes big stuff, you know, we're falling in close air support, right?

54:37

It's just that there's, there's a lot of stuff going on and now it's not smiling.

54:42

Yeah, this is awesome. Now it's like, and this is scary and, uh, right. But we, we've got work to do.

54:49

So I think just having the, the, the perseverance just to go, okay, yeah, this is my work.

54:55

Like I may not, you know, enjoy it right now. You know, that's just, there's times when it was awesome and there's times when, when you're scared and then there's times and it's like, yeah, this is, we just crushed some people, right?

55:06

We were just Victoria, right? There's, there's ups and downs, but, but just being able to go, Hey, this is, this is the work state.

55:12

Stay in it. Be persevere. And, and yeah. And then I would just draw that right into like, that's what we're supposed to be doing now as followers of Christ.

55:21

And that's, that's what we're all supposed to be doing is persevering. Yeah. Right. Laboring running the race, uh, that I can pull up a verse here real quick that I really like.

55:33

Um, first Corinthians nine, 24 through 27. Do you not know that in a race, all the runners run, but only one receives the prize.

55:41

So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self -control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.

55:49

So I do not run aimlessly. I do not box as one beating the air, but I discipline my body and keep it under control.

55:56

Let's after preaching to others, I myself should be disqualified. Oh, yeah.

56:01

Just that concept of perseverance of, of, Hey, this is the path that I'm called to. And I always say,

56:08

Charlie might continue mission. That's what, that's what you need to do. Quick question. And I, I asked you a little bit about it, but kind of on a practical level.

56:16

I mean, so you, you said there's the point of your career, daily gunfights, right?

56:22

I mean, you were getting each time you would go out. Sometimes that was daily. Sometimes it was, you know, every other day, something like that.

56:29

Yeah. But, but when you're, I mean, I can't imagine like preparing yourself to get into that and just what that does to your body, the quarters all dump, you know, and the adrenaline and all the stress and, you know, leading up to that.

56:43

So how did you deal with that type of stress to where it didn't affect your performance?

56:48

You know, you really, I'll just let you speak to that. That's a good question. I mean, it was, it was, it was hard at times.

56:54

Like, I mean, definitely like challenging. I mean, I remember, uh, I remember listening to a lot of third day with some of their worship stuff, just like Ryan to like, you know, listen, you know,

57:05

I mean, uh, yeah, there was, yeah, I mean, it was definitely, it was hard at times for sure.

57:13

Um, you know, we're working through some of that stuff and I'm definitely a much strong, you know, by God's grace,

57:20

I'm a stronger Christian today than I was, um, back then. Um, but yeah,

57:26

I mean, fortunately God is good and he, he helps even when, uh, when, when things are hard.

57:31

Yeah. I'm sure it changed to, you know, you became conditioned from your first couple missions to your 70th, right?

57:39

I mean, you kind of, was there kind of like a getting used to that type of feel? Or yeah, well, it's just, it's not a new thing anymore at that point.

57:47

It's just like, okay, this is work. This is what we're doing. Like we've got, you know, and we were way better at it the 70th time than we were the first time.

57:54

I mean, way, way better at it. Um, you know, but yeah, you, you do, do you get conditioned to it?

58:01

You get, uh, just part of being a professional and Hey, this is, this is your, this is what you do.

58:09

Then, then you should be good at it and you should set yourself up to do, you know, whether it's swapping out batteries, every single mission or, you know, making sure that you're done is wiped down and, or, you know, make sure that you're, you're getting proper comms checks and you know, all these things that, that you make sure that you do because you know, you re, you rely on all that stuff.

58:30

Did you ever have a moment where you were like, I'm not going to make it home? Uh, there was times where pre mission was like, uh, yeah, this one might not, this one might not be so good, but I didn't really ever think about that during.

58:48

So we'll, we'll end here on this. And by the way, we're going to, um, have an after show. Bill's going to stick around for that.

58:53

So if you're all access, which thank you for partnering with us. Um, you can jump on over to there in a second.

59:01

Um, so just want to end this point. I think just listening to you, even how you answered those questions, but I think, and I'm thinking of Christ, right?

59:09

Like Christ basically had three roles on earth. There was prophet, priest and King. And, and I feel like part of this, having a warrior mindset is like being able to, um, switch into different roles when needed and be able to do it like that on the spot.

59:27

And I, and I, and I think it's, I'm pretty sure I've heard you talk about this if it wasn't, forgive me. Um, but I think it was, you ever said like you would before mission, you'd be thinking about your wife and your kids.

59:37

Right. And then like, and then it was like you'd switch that off. And it was like, I'm in,

59:43

I'm in professional mode now and I got work to do. It was, was that you that's talked about that?

59:49

I've talked about similar types of things. Like you have to switch that off. Yeah. You know,

59:54

I mean, yeah, you just can't, if you're, if you're thinking about issues you're having back at, at with family life while you're on a mission, like you're, you're way more likely not to come back to them.

01:00:05

Um, so it's, it is a, I don't know if I've talked about it in this, this form, but, um, yeah,

01:00:11

I mean, that's a super, super important, or I mean, and I look at that as part of the whole persona thing, right.

01:00:16

Where we have different personas and, and you have to be able to like, okay, I'm putting this belt on now, but when you're putting on say the soldiering belt, you better not do anything.

01:00:26

It's going to dishonor, you know, the, the family, the wife and your creator.

01:00:33

Yeah. Right. Right. So the things that are higher within that, that you hold more dearly to better not be dishonored, um, by that persona that you happen to be putting on.

01:00:46

So we have to keep those other ones in mind, but it's not like you're always thinking about, you know, your, or you shouldn't really be thinking about your wife and family while you're out on a mission.

01:00:56

Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. No, I appreciate that. Um, so one last thing I just listed to, uh, interview you did not too long ago and I, I just like cracking up laughing cause you were like talking about a mission where you, there was a lot of action and you're like, it was real sporty.

01:01:11

And I just like that, like that description of it. It just made me just chuckle. I was like, it was sporty.

01:01:16

And it was like, yeah, that that's one way to describe it. So, um, anyways, well thank you, uh, again, bill for being on work and remind everyone in case they miss it, where can they find you or all of our training amtechshooting .com

01:01:31

and for our blades, uh, amtechblades .com and you also amtech gear for stickers and t -shirts.

01:01:37

Oh, and you do you travel, right? So like, as if someone goes and sign up for like updates or newsletter or something to find out where you're going to be yet.

01:01:46

Yes. Yeah. And we generally, we, we try to stick to it monthly. So generally like, uh,

01:01:53

January is Tucson area, Tucson, Phoenix area. Um, so we, it's generally every year we'll be in the same, same area.

01:02:01

Yeah. Gotcha. Do you guys do like private training for groups? We do. Oh yeah.

01:02:06

So you'll fly out and train them. Yep. Sweet. I think we might be trying to do something maybe when he's here for me and camp.

01:02:14

No, cool. We might tag team that right on. So, um, sweet. Well thank you once again, everyone.

01:02:20

Uh, all access supporters, you are literally the best and we can't do this without you. Thank you everyone.

01:02:26

That's part of an abortion. Now. Um, same Zs. We're out there saving babies.

01:02:32

Pastor Jeff's in Arkansas right now trying to save babies because of everyone that's, uh, supports that.

01:02:39

So thank you so much. Um, and anything else? Am I missing? No. Thanks man for coming on.

01:02:45

We appreciate you. Thanks for having me on. All right, y 'all. Well, we'll see you next time. We'll be back next week.

01:02:51

I think hopefully I'm not going to promise this, but I think next week we might be discussing, uh, pastor

01:02:59

James did a panel discussion at G3, which was really, really good.

01:03:05

We were there for that. And I think we might be discussing that. So again, no promises, but maybe.

01:03:10

So look for that, uh, next week. But until then, thank you everyone. And again, if you're all excess hop over there, give us a few minutes and then we'll be continuing this conversation there.