Cultish - A Journey Out of the New Age

Apologia Studios

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00:00

All right, welcome back ladies and gentlemen to cultish entering the kingdom of the cults My name is Jeremiah Roberts one of the co -hosts here.

00:07

I'm here as always with Andrew the super sleuth of the show How are you doing, man? I'm doing well, and it feels good to be back in the studio

00:14

I feel like we were on the road for a little bit. You know what? I know I know Cold just in bed doing a little doing a little on the on that little road tour and all that sort of stuff and so It's always good to be back here in the studio and we are here with Teresa Gentry.

00:28

How are you doing? I'm doing good. Yeah, good good So I just want to start off by saying we were talking a bit last night

00:36

And you know, we've spoke a couple times in prep for you coming on here. You drove out here from, California. Yep, and when

00:43

I first connected with you I it was Jeff pastor Jeff had brought just your story to my attention and because he had just met you and they were working on the church plant in Kauai and I remember right away.

00:58

I just went to your Facebook photos and I know is there this stark contrast?

01:04

You know, there's a saying that if a picture is worth a thousand words your Facebook profile at that time was

01:12

I would just say and we'll delve into it and you'll understand as we unpack your story There was just an amount of just amount of involvement in the new age

01:22

I mean if you ever want to just look at a resume and pictures and have someone who is a true believer

01:27

Living it out to the fullest. It was that all of a sudden. There's a shift where You talk about being born again.

01:36

Everything's about Jesus and everything else. And so that's it's quite the story So it's an honor to be able to finally have you in the studio to really unpack your story

01:43

I think a lot of people are gonna be blessed by this. So Yeah, so do you want to just maybe talk about get like three to four minutes about just your involvement and just so people can

01:52

Get an understanding because some on YouTube We might share a couple pictures and images and things like that to kind of give people a visual of your involvement

02:00

But can you just give a people just a brief? Overview of some of the things you were involved in before you kind of jump into your story.

02:06

Sure. Absolutely. Thanks for having me Yeah, absolutely yeah, so I was really deep for over 13 years and I Considered myself to all be all sorts of things in that world everything from a ceremonial artist to a medicine woman

02:24

I was an initiated priestess on a tikini and was a keeper of the red tent mysteries and An intuitive clairvoyant

02:36

I Also channeled my channeled all sorts of things both just in consciousness and also through my dance

02:43

The ecstatic dancing was everything to me. That was my most spiritual practice in that world and Yeah, I had a large bag of tricks of Things within the altered consciousness realms not just psychedelics and stuff like that, but breath works and all kinds of different Practices that would alter your consciousness.

03:07

I Was an earth worshipper and alma devotee a yoga teacher

03:13

I Actually just you know, like jokingly looking at the time

03:19

Considered myself to be a spiritual junkie and I actually had like some pride in that term.

03:25

I thought it was cute and Yeah now, of course, I know what

03:30

I was, you know deeply seeking but couldn't find in that world I really feel like I searched almost every corner.

03:37

Not not all of them. There was a few I didn't make it to but most of them and Yeah, I even got my degree in New Age at a school that is casually called hippie

03:48

Harvard Very well accredited and tons of different masters and really professional people that I studied under at that school

03:56

So yeah, so you're talking just a brief overview This is just example what kind of unpacks some of these probably some people may be familiar that we're just trying to say that you

04:04

There's a quote that and I can't remember the exact source but says almost anything worth doing is worth overdoing and that might that would probably be

04:11

Accurate part and parcel to the mindset if you had it just just going after 110 % Also, just real quickly.

04:17

Well, I won't pack this as well, but Geographically there are I think there are certain areas that even of the world in the same way that Islam would see

04:26

You know would look to Mecca there are areas Geographically that the New Age is very attracted to you likes to go likes to frequent in regards to just their worldview and what they believe is sort of coming as far as the

04:37

Aquarian age and All those things but just give an example of some of the places you visited as well, too

04:43

Mm -hmm and and how that related to some of the practices sure Well Burning Man, that's a location.

04:51

I mean, it's not that far away from where I was living in the Bay Area But that it's a place in itself

04:57

Bali I went to Bali lived there for three months really experienced it from like the locals perspective

05:05

Guatemala a little town called San Marcos. It's a hub on Lake Otet lawn. That's very very rich with all this the various islands in Hawaii mostly

05:16

Maui and Kauai and Big Island some also Let's see,

05:23

Nevada City my little town that I lived in before I moved to Kauai I lived there for four years and it's quite a hub.

05:29

Yeah. Yeah, so I would say those are main ones I visited a lot. I lived in Portland. I kind of I moved around a lot, right?

05:35

Yeah. Yeah. What's that Johnny Cash song? I've been everywhere In regards to just new age of practicing all over the place.

05:41

So yeah. Yeah, so maybe jump in Let's just kind of go back to the very beginning. We're kind of give people just a kind of a very brief overview

05:47

But if we just jump right in so let's just start at your childhood, I think you had some

05:54

Interesting upbringing in regards just your family of origin also That affected also spiritual encounters.

06:01

I don't give any way just just bring it take give us take us to the very beginning. Okay Yeah, so I grew up in a pretty small town

06:09

Mojave Desert in California, and I did not grow up with any

06:14

True Christian realm. I I was told by my grandparents that we were Protestant But all

06:20

I really know that knew that to mean was not Catholic, right? I never saw a

06:25

Bible. We never went to church There was no prayer, you know, it wasn't anything tangible

06:32

And in fact, I was told that Jesus was a nice story for people to make them feel better about death and such

06:39

So it was actually kind of from the beginning like a made -up thing is what I was told Yeah, and I gravitated towards I guess you would call them occult things as a child things like Ouija or am

06:53

I saying that right Ouija board? Yeah, and We would do games at slumber parties like the light is a feather stiff as a board and stuff and I would have really powerful experiences with that Bloody Mary Thinking bloody

07:08

Mary in my head. Yeah. I had a yeah I mean a lot of stuff happened when I did these things like I yeah

07:14

Absolutely, and I started seeing like from a very young age and like other realms like stuff

07:21

I could see things in the sky We grew up next to a large military base and I could see ships and various things in the sky

07:28

And my brother could see them, but my parents couldn't Strange stuff, you know, like I who knows I don't have an answer to that necessarily.

07:34

But how old oh gosh from like elementary school onward lots of different stories probably save that for another time, but but Yeah, and then also overlapping with with some of these same things was sleep paralysis,

07:52

I had an ongoing sleep paralysis situation that It was for lack of a better way to describe it sort of like an altered consciousness state later down the road that I would experience where it

08:05

Was the same kind of realm that I would be brought back to time and time and time again That would cause panic it would cause

08:14

It wasn't as scary as what you hear from some people sleep paralysis where there's like, you know

08:19

Monsters or the big dark guy or something. It was like a realm that I had to Navigate and figure out and I would wake up like just eventually

08:29

I would be able to come out of it And my mom would have to calm me down for like hours It would be really intense and it happened often like several times a year like for years on end

08:40

Let's see what else I yeah, I was I I mean

08:45

I grew up with some some hardships and family hardships and such and I started contemplating suicide at a very young age like five years old and Maybe six but you know really young just I mean,

09:01

I never tried it or anything at that age But I was I was fantasizing about it ideation interesting.

09:07

Yeah, and Yeah, I mean it led to you know in my

09:15

Essentially like, you know preteen teen years just a Total mess.

09:21

I was I had a lot of wounds a lot of pain a lot of suffering. That was just not dealt with and Everybody's wounds kind of bumping into each other and my family so yeah by the time

09:36

I was Gosh I mean, I think the first time I got drunk was like 12 or 13 years old

09:43

I was quite young and then by like 15 I was pretty much a full -blown alcoholic like really just seeking some sort of it was insatiable this desire of I Mean all sorts of things

09:57

I became, you know, the class clown I was like voted class clown and I was like a attention

10:03

You know, I wanted attention. I wanted some sort of satisfaction that Nobody gave me any, you know understanding of what that could be

10:13

Yeah, so it's almost like would you say you were just looking for different ways to try and sometimes either cope with the different traumas?

10:19

Or in some ways suppress them I mean, that's just one of the aspects and I don't remember the exact reference of where this is from But you know, some people say that they'll you know, they'll drink, you know heavily just to drown their sorrows

10:30

Yeah, sorrows are incredibly good swimmers They they're very yes.

10:36

They just know how to Go to the top and like that but um, but yeah

10:42

I I think that's just just one of those huge things when it comes to dealing with all that but this affected you where you mentioned that you because that you just became very

10:52

Just a lot yet Just a lot of anger a lot of resentment toward towards authority and that that would act out in many different ways

10:59

So again, you as part and parcel to both the spiritual encounters that you were having but also a lot of the trauma and dysfunction

11:07

So maybe going into your teen years you can talk about that. Was there anything else to in regards to your childhood?

11:12

You think that's just a good brief over you anything else you want to talk about? Well you know the

11:22

Some of the like strange stuff that I experienced as a child, but I don't have answers to it.

11:29

No Well, yeah, well I think it is one of those things too that you know

11:35

We had our episode 2 of the episode of Kristen Bellamy You can give your thoughts to Andrews that you know, she talked about from a very young age

11:41

She would have a dark figure following them around and in fact We're dealing with when we're looking at cultish and we're kind of unraveling these things, you know

11:50

For some people they'll I always call them the skepticals right when you start hearing about these claims about UFOs or seeing alien ships or being followed by a dark figure

12:01

But in reality that if we have a biblical framework in which to work with like right now

12:07

We can only see tangibly right with our eyes. We see you, you know, we're here. We see the kombucha

12:12

You know, that's it here in the studio We've got our iPads and computers laid out But we can't see we can't see the unseen realm with our naked eye.

12:21

Well, what we do have is we have a framework to make sense of These and what the unseen realm is or the heaven or the heavenly places as scripture would call it

12:31

So that's one of the things we want to emphasize that as we unpack your story That we look at this through a biblical framework not sensationalizing it but just telling the truth and To have that foundation the same way if you've listened to our episode and Kristen Bellamy Yeah, and I think the enemy likes to capitalize on on people who don't have a proper understanding a biblical framework of what's going on around them like for me personally as a

12:55

Growing up a child as well. I had experienced things. I did have a biblical framework within The frame

13:01

I was experiencing which made me a little bit more terrified in terms of the unseen realm Because I thought and knew it was demonic what was going on around me which terrified me

13:08

But at the same time I knew that what the answer was, right? But I could see growing up with like a like a dark cloud or an aura around you and being within a family framework

13:16

That doesn't have the biblical Understanding to make sense of it The enemy wants to capitalize on it and wants you to run to anything but Jesus Right to try to fill in the the void in your life

13:28

To make this trauma essentially go away. But but really

13:33

I mean like even even when I was a teenager, I know I personally uh Was was partying at the age of 14 15 like the same thing

13:41

I was drinking all the time And I was trying to overcome trauma without going to christ, even though I knew who the answer was

13:48

But all I did was end up magnifying my trauma For the longest time in my life where you talked about your your family throwing wounds at one another

13:57

We end up doing that to everyone around ourselves right at that age We just really want to project our wounds on other people to give them this type of empathy

14:05

So we all just empathize with one another and our wounds we make each other feel yeah in a sense That's kind of like how i'm hearing it

14:12

Uh portrayed right now with what's going on. Yeah Yeah, I mean it wasn't

14:18

Conscious I for me anyways, like it was all um reactionary. I didn't even know it was reactionary it was just it was who

14:26

I was it was it was what I saw it was I mean, you know

14:33

Some of my friends the same, you know, I think possibly worse in my case for certain things, you know,

14:38

I mean I was like bringing Coffee to to school with like peppermint schnapps in it.

14:44

Like it was all day every day, you know that was my that was my focus like that was what I wanted to yeah escape essentially, but I don't know.

14:54

I guess it's different where I see people now and they like know they're escaping by having that glass of wine I didn't know it was just what we did what

15:02

I was doing and I mean all kinds of stuff, you know driving our cars insane across the desert till they broke down and I mean, there's numerous stories all over the place of I should have died.

15:15

I don't even know how many times um So yeah, it was um kind of one reaction after another building like you said on top of itself just a mess and Hmm yeah and pain too.

15:31

There was a lot of you know, like my brother and I had problems and there was there is stuff that um

15:40

Yeah, I I had no identity in christ. I had no identity in anything, but the wounds being thrown around Yeah, so I mean you would just so another in summary you just at that point, you know

15:51

Especially in your childhood going up into your teens I mean you're just sort of desperately clamming for anything that can give you any sort of peace sense of meaning and purpose but also

16:00

Sort of cope with and deal with and sometimes try and stuff down and suppress, you know All the different struggles of of your upbringing there

16:08

So yeah I pretty much have there from your teen years and like I said it had been you know having sort of that rebel attitude and anger and hating authority and dealing with all that and then eventually that Affected you as you kind of grew up in adolescence in your 20s

16:22

And so do you want to do you want to go ahead and talk about that a little bit? You mentioned that and it led to art school and I got kind of interesting from there some weird stuff

16:30

The life before the life in the new age. Yeah. Um multiple lives before finding christ

16:36

Uh, yeah, so my teenage years angry alcoholic full blown alcoholic, you know, and that that proceeded

16:44

I I went off to college just I went where all my friends went like it wasn't I didn't know what I wanted to study.

16:49

I didn't have any direction Um, and yeah started getting into sort of the typical, you know smoking a lot of pot, you know experimenting with mushrooms and somewhat typical, you know going to the frat parties and just kind of a normal college life, but then

17:05

I jumped around colleges a few times. Um and ended up in art school in san francisco

17:11

And that's where things got really interesting um yeah, I was studying photography and film and um

17:19

Living in a house full of other artists and we Yeah, we were right downtown in san francisco and you know

17:26

Just involved in like the the night scene there and everything and one night this was before britney did it

17:31

But I ended up shaving my head Um in sort of a similar way like when

17:36

I saw her do it a few years later. I was like, wow, that was weird Um, and yeah, but then my friend she was watching and she said oh, let's give her a mohawk instead

17:46

And um, so I ended up with a pink mohawk and then just in I was going to all the thrift stores in san francisco, so I would dress in pink head to toe and became not super well known at all, but in some of those smaller scenes in the bars and kind of you know, the

18:04

I don't know how to call it. Like, uh, i haven't been to bars in years, but you know, like the It's the bar scene.

18:10

Yeah, like you were the not the posh bars like the bars that are kind of you know Like punk rockish almost a little bit like people always think that I was some punk rock, but I just like the look

18:19

It wasn't like I actually was listening to all the music and everything Like I kind of had an anarchist vibe, but that makes you sound way more punk rock, by the way

18:27

Yeah, okay, right. Yeah Yeah, but it seems like that'd be like around the early 2000s. So that's somewhat indicative of the culture of that I'm, just trying to think of the different music that was around at that time

18:36

So it would just and just some of the music culture So it seems like something like that in san francisco would just sort of be

18:43

Indicative or just kind of standout -ish or just congruent with where things were at that time Yeah, I mean there was there was definitely an interesting trend rising amongst some of the underground kind of, you know

18:54

Subculture scenes and I was reasonably well known started, you know, I was into you know

18:59

Putting things up my nose and some not so classy, you know drugs and stuff like that but um, well actually people think those kind of drugs are classy when they're doing them, but um yeah, in any ways, um

19:11

You know I ended up We went to an art school party and I took my friend My roommate had a snake a pet snake a boa constrictor and I had it wrapped around my neck

19:20

And we went to the party that way and I met what ended up being my long -term partner in my 20s and um

19:28

Yeah, we were both kind of a hot mess to be totally honest we were both drinking a lot and whatever but um

19:36

He was I would say one of the first Major folks that like really started opening up the idea.

19:44

He he posed things to me like oh There's two choices in life fear versus love

19:50

And like you can actually like kind of break that down in the bible but like of course it wasn't from a biblical perspective his mom was actually quite deep in like some new age type stuff and his dad was a ex mason, um high level mason and um

20:06

So they they were really um For lack of a better word woke. I don't really like that word, you know, it's used in all different ways

20:13

But it's very much a pejorative for sure. Yeah Yeah, yeah, so, you know, they were they they told me all sorts of stuff that I wasn't aware of about the world

20:22

And who knows I mean not not necessarily all of it is 100 truth But they got me to question things the narrative that we were all force -fed through school or you know the media or whatever it was and um

20:35

So that that started shifting things quite a bit. I was a professional makeup artist in san francisco and um working a lot and I actually started like by the time

20:48

Um, yeah, I would say mid 2000s Uh, I started getting quite not well, like I was having some major health problems, right?

20:58

And I mean looking back on it, of course by that point I was 12 years deep as an alcoholic and suppressing all this anger and you know, just a mess.

21:07

Um, and uh Proceeded to yeah get quite sick and like western medicine

21:16

Was stumped They mostly didn't really know what to do for me to help

21:23

So they ended up sticking me on steroids, which was atrocious I personally like that.

21:29

I'm very sensitive and it it was it was very uncomfortable. It was almost worse than what the sickness was

21:36

So my partner at the time he even though He was you know

21:43

A graffiti artist and a skateboarder and all kinds of kind of you know rebellious stuff himself he had this inner healer if you will inside and Was exposed to a lot as a child.

21:55

So he started taking me to a naturopathic doctor And I was resistant to going

22:00

I sensed something about them potentially having like witchiness, which is so strange because I don't know where that came from, but but I went and the doctor, um

22:12

Had a field day trying to figure out what was going on with me and hair analysis and all the things

22:19

And so she comes back. Well, we're going to have to start alkalizing your body. I didn't know what that meant

22:24

I'm like like a pool And um yeah, so this the journey began to fixing my health and I went from drinking like a bottle a half of wine every night and smoking a ton of pot and all this to being sober

22:41

And I quit my job as a makeup artist started Doing a raw alkaline diet full like raw alkaline, you know, no fruit.

22:49

No nothing that broke down into sugar And was running every day and just totally shifting everything

22:58

Yeah, and this is just something real quick just to just to comment and you can jump on it too is that this is just one of the many gateways into the new age when it comes to just like a lot of the different naturopathy and natural medicine and if you go to A whole foods or even sprouts where anyone wants to know too.

23:15

This is kombucha. This is not uh, this is not We're not yeah, so if any of the youtube comments are going crazy right now that's uh of alcoholic beverage here on set

23:23

That's just non -alcoholic kombucha right here but in many ways like if you look at if you go into a whole place like a whole foods or a natural grocers or whatever is over there in california, they'll just be a lot of books a lot of the

23:36

A lot of the ideas behind it. It'll be subtly infused within a lot of different new age concepts and ideas in the same way how

23:46

New age will use things like quantum physics or some of those things that are very vague and nuanced and they try and slip in Universal consciousness, you know between that they'll look at something like a product that would help with your digestion

23:59

For example that will be real and effective and there are health benefits that go to that but then it goes down a path to This is how you know, you clear out all your chakras and then it leads to that and that's and that's really what happened with you oh

24:12

Totally I mean I I was I was sort of open to that stuff but not really and um

24:18

Yeah, no, I had no idea. It was completely unsuspecting and it was before it was massively trendy like it is now too, but it was still in there and uh, yeah, so it was actually one of my my um therapists

24:31

I had all kinds of different health therapists for different things and this one that I went to um

24:38

She really she'd She she planted a lot of seeds, um that eventually very much so sprouted but uh

24:46

She gave me a copy of the movie the secret Right after it first came out like not the secret the film that came out recently

24:53

It was more like a documentary back in the day. I remember that. Yeah And um, she told me because I was doing the rebounding machine, you know, it's like a trampoline for your lymph system

25:03

Basically, it's great. But wasn't there a documentary too that was similar called like what the bleep you know? I think that was a little bit after or before I watched

25:11

I definitely was aware of that like from when it came out also that's in my my longer testimony. Okay um

25:17

Whenever that was I can't remember but uh Yeah, similar type concept.

25:23

Yeah. So, um abraham hicks. I was I was reading a book and it was yeah, it's totally new to me, but uh a definite

25:35

It switched everything I I mean it was like I was I remember making the analogy It was as if I was studying for the bar exam

25:42

I mean, I had that thing highlighted and sticky notes and you know writing in the margins

25:48

It was I mean how I study the bible now, but it was like that like just what is this thing?

25:54

Huh? you know and uh Yeah, so It was kind of becoming, you know this idea of oh wait, maybe there's another life that's gonna happen, you know, it was opening

26:08

But I wasn't quite there yet and then so one day i'm running home from golden gate park

26:13

I was running through the park every day up to five miles a day and um, I decided to take ninth avenue instead of fifth avenue

26:21

And I see a sign green alkaline juice And there was no raw food restaurants and stuff back then it was a totally so I go in it's a cafe and i'm like wow

26:33

I can eat out again because it's a raw foodie. You're spending all this time at home doing the thing

26:39

And so we started going there regularly and uh Kind of became friends with the people and whatnot, but I was resistant to all things.

26:47

Hippie. I was not hippie And I felt that there and I was like so anyways, um

26:54

We moved to the mission in san francisco and there was the original one of these cafes there started going and then

27:02

I actually was breaking up with my partner because he was still kind of involved in a lot of the Drinking and other stuff and i'm moving into this like health conscious person

27:11

So I got my own place and started working at the cafe mostly because I wanted a discount on their food

27:19

And It's actually a school of transformation disguised as a raw food restaurant right and I mean they wrote a whole book on the concept of um,

27:31

Like how to include spirituality in your commerce and they had practices That that they would do yeah, and it was called it was called landmark education, right?

27:40

No the cafe Mention it Uh, the cafe is called cafe gratitude.

27:47

Yes. Yes. Yeah, but it is connected to landmark education I did end up doing that about three months after I started working there.

27:53

Okay, okay Uh -huh, but they're they're two separate things, right? We were up late trying to yeah practice and pack everything together

28:01

Was like a family -owned business with the mom the dad the child worked there too or something Yeah, pretty much in the beginning it's grown quite a bit and it actually is now all over southern california and like more of a

28:12

Kind of chain or franchise or one of those kind of words. Um But I was

28:17

I mean I was working at the number one location and the owners at that point were literally like in the back making the desserts which at some point, you know, there was a whole central kitchen and all kinds of stuff that When it grew because at one point there was about I don't know 10 or more of these all over the bay area.

28:32

So The amount of production for raw food is no joke um, so anyways, it's a culture this place is a total like hub of Well now looking back new age type stuff, but very genuine loving.

28:45

Yeah people. In fact, I just pulled up right now The on the phone cafe gratitude. Yeah. Yeah, very congruent what you're talking about It's you know what?

28:53

I went to one somewhat recently like a few years ago, um before I was saved, uh

28:59

Down in southern california and it's nowhere near what it was when I worked there Like as far as a lot of it's got it's streamlined, you know

29:06

With any business once it gets once it goes corporate it loses that personal touch The owners are amazing.

29:12

Like I I do, you know, I I have a lot of respect for them They're doing a lot of good like good samaritan type work in the world.

29:17

They're they're good people, you know, i'm not trying to so, um Yeah, and honestly what my time there so I I was there for three months

29:27

They kept trying to they they they pay so landmark education is it's a type of school.

29:33

That's um about bettering yourself essentially And um the restaurant came from landmark from from the owner's

29:42

Experience through landmark education is how they decided to make the restaurant So therefore in turn they decide to give their employees a free experience through landmark.

29:51

Oh, wow, right So they encourage you they don't make you but they encouraged you I don't know if they still do but they did at the time to do it and I was resistant to doing it

30:00

And then eventually I did I ended up going with my best friend at the time in that whole world and um

30:07

I the first few days was like my goodness. You guys need to go on. Dr Phil or oprah or something?

30:12

It was so dramatic all these people with their wounds and everything and I didn't Acknowledge, you know, right?

30:18

It wasn't there yet my awareness of that and then on day three I had this just like breakthrough.

30:24

They call it popcorn. It was a late a late kernel, you know, like a late piece You know the last piece of popcorn that goes poo at the end.

30:31

I was that person and um I had I remember explaining it like it was like my consciousness hit a brick wall of like, okay, boom new

30:41

Newness, you know, it was just total everything that I thought shifted, you know,

30:47

I Jokingly called it like a red pill moment, you know, and um, and yeah, I realized oh my goodness

30:52

I've lived my whole life as a victim as a wounded child from these experiences. Like I finally saw it and um

31:00

Whoa, I can create something new. I got a taste. I was talking last night No, like it was like my first hit of heroin, you know,

31:07

I mean, yeah, I never did that I'm never did that drug but um, you know in concept and Yeah, and then it was on That's where I went from zero to 180, you know,

31:20

I mean just like full throttle and yeah So I we created a home called the goddess vortex

31:26

With a bunch of other women doing the same kind of work that all worked at the restaurant and we were very conscious and loving

31:33

And doing all the practices together and sharing and and this was a very and this was even as a small mom pop shop

31:38

It was it was very popular in that area. Oh, yeah, right talk about some of it even got some Celebrities that got interested and talk just a little bit about that.

31:46

Yeah, it was um It was it was it was definitely like ahead of the curve in that whole world and So we had you know, everyone from like Woody Harrelson and they're on a regular basis

31:58

Alanis Morissette Michael Franti Lots of various, you know teachers and spiritual realms and food gurus

32:06

You know the Gabriel cousins and the David Wolfe's and yeah You know all those kind of people were my regulars at my tables and like yeah,

32:14

New York the New York Times came and did a Piece on us and their food and food and wine food and whatever it's called in that in that magazine

32:22

Or I mean newspaper About like what is going on in San Francisco?

32:27

What is this restaurant, you know, and they you were part of that I was on the cover of that article

32:33

Wow Yeah on the New York Times of the food and wine section not the whole entire man or newspaper, but on the article section

32:40

Yeah, so how long was that that school the landmark school was it three days or so? Okay, the the landmark education like platform

32:49

You could do it for the rest of your life and never complete all of it The course I did was a three -day course

32:54

It's called the forum. Okay, and then I actually ended up going forward and doing their curriculum for living which is like there are three foundational level classes back -to -back and I Would say it took me a year total to do the whole thing because one of them's like months long and you're and that's where You build a project right?

33:11

So when the owners had gone through landmark themselves in that one where they build the project.

33:16

That's when First the board game there was a board game that was part of the restaurant, but it all came from yeah

33:22

And I find it interesting too that when you look at the entirety of the New Age and you know from our times

33:27

We've had you know, Stephen Bancar's on or talking with other former New Agers is that I don't it seems to me

33:32

There's never a point where you fully arrive. It's always Escalating or they would probably call it.

33:38

You're continually ascending, right? And so it just it's no one in sight And so I just found it just peculiar that you go there and you're initially it starts off with a course

33:47

It's just fine and finding a way to try and help with some of your trauma and coping mechanisms and all that To all of a sudden now, it's a temple goddess.

33:56

Now you're doing this. Oh, yeah, you're doing all that And even you mentioned to that one of the things they would do prior to going on a shift

34:04

They would have it. They called a clearing session, right? Yeah, talk about that just so people can just so people can understand the atmosphere of what you're going on because right now this restaurant the cafe gratitude, this is really

34:17

The portal or the catalyst that just threw you into all of this that was your life for 13 years

34:23

I used to say I was born through that restaurant and it's funny because I didn't even understand the term born -again

34:28

But it was essentially like my born -again New Age experience right looking back on it. Yeah, it all started from there

34:35

Yeah, so the clearing they had 12 I believe it was somewhere around there in their book of various their books called sacred commerce and the idea of creating a business

34:44

That is you know a spiritual practice instead of just what the world does so one of the things that they did is you'd be you'd be clocked in you'd be getting paid and You would sit down with your either boss or manager whoever was like, you know the lead shift person that day and They'd ask you is there anything in the way of you being present to serve today and you could be very honest and say

35:11

You know anything from you know, I've had a fight with my boyfriend. I got a flat tire You made me upset when

35:16

I didn't get my shift or my you know break yesterday at the right time, you know, whatever whatever it was and When it was first starting with they would really go deep

35:26

It would be like a 20 minute process and they'd say, you know, like where do you feel that in your body? Is there some association from another wound that you can like associate with that?

35:34

you know, it was like mini like somatic therapy session essentially and And you know, sometimes there'd be tears or frustration or whatever and and then it would get to the point where they'd say

35:45

So are you ready to put that away? Are you ready to you know, like focus on serving and put that you know

35:54

Aside or away or be done with it? Hmm, and if you weren't you could literally get your shift covered and go home like they would support that it would be okay

36:03

Or you know, yes, I'm ready to go on to the floor and later, you know, I mean we were Jam -packed and like we had to get rid of a lot of employees when the economy crashed in 2008

36:13

Yeah, cuz it's around the it's a it's a time wise where this is probably like oh six. Oh six two. Oh wait,

36:18

I went there from 07 7 8 9 I believe is when

36:23

I was there somewhere on there I was there for three years and I know it was I started in oh seven But yeah, so like a year into it the economy tanked and we had to get rid of a lot of our employees simultaneously

36:35

All of San Francisco was showing up at our doorstep. We literally had like lines around the block like it was we were we were thing so Yeah, if it got crazy you could request a clearing throughout the day

36:49

Like if you needed another one and there was things like, you know Some of the other ones are simple but a minute out loud and someone would would shout it across the and everybody would

36:58

Start cracking up and laughing, you know, like the yoga laughter thing That kind of thing where those chemicals in your brain going it was actually it was interesting because in the beginning, you know

37:08

Somebody all like people don't necessarily know what they're in for when they come there to eat food

37:13

They're like I want to eat, you know, and we're asking them the question the day and when you serve them the platter of food You know, they order the nachos but instead of saying nachos they say

37:21

I'm ordering the honoring and then when I bring them the honoring You are honoring Right, so it's an affirmative like worship going on in a sense.

37:31

Yeah. Yeah, that's really what I mean The whole thing is about like, you know, your divine self and all that kind of stuff even even the clearing

37:38

It's an act of confession and repentance About that, but it's true. That's literally what

37:43

I was hearing in my head just like a counterfeit version, right? Every religion has to deal with in some sense, but this way you're looking at the guru.

37:52

You're confessing to the guru You're repenting if you can't go home. Yeah Figure out what's going on repent and come back.

37:58

Yeah interesting stuff Do you know that reminds me of is a member one of our first premier episodes we do with it with Alexander About when he was a we had a guy on who was a

38:06

Hari Krishna he grew up in a hurry and he was just a Hardcore devotee for about ten years and they would get up really early in the morning and they would you know

38:16

Cook up all this food, but before they can even cook for themselves They had to cook to Krishna or whatever

38:21

Hindu gods were so it's always interesting to see Aspects of the new age where they involve, you know, not just the health but even like the cooking and yeah those aspects

38:31

It's all intermixed together like this aspect of worship Yeah, even the bit the business type empire like empire like landmark like we can think of it like Nexium with Keith Raniere It's the same thing the intro to to Nexium is essentially someone going in there talking it could take days

38:47

But they may have that popcorn moment where all of a sudden they break down in front of everybody cry They have this massive experience and then all of a sudden they're sucked.

38:54

There's there's more courses now to take. Yeah Landmark, I mean it I I've come across some

38:59

Christians that are involved in landmark And it's you know, I mean to me it's night is so clear that that is

39:05

I Mean, you know some of this stuff there's valuable insight to Potentially parts of your psyche or something that you're not able to see like, you know, there's there was things here and there but Jokingly because there was a lot of different we were controversial this restaurant, you know

39:23

Like people were trying to and people called us a cult right and you know, it's funny you're being here on cultish now

39:31

And the owner of the restaurant and like I said, lovely people like I'm not trying to bash anybody like involved in the restaurant

39:38

They are good people doing the best they can with what they had and good things for other people to you know just missing the

39:45

Lord and Yeah, so The owner of the restaurant he came up with like cult is short for culture and we definitely have a culture

39:56

You know like it was like we played off it It was like made it like light of it or whatever and there was there was a lot of you know,

40:02

I mean eventually there was a lawsuit involving the restaurant and all kinds of stuff and it's like we Went through some heat as a community for sure, but we like we did we stood together, you know,

40:12

I mean it wasn't I Mean next seems a little more sketch, but you know What's just also interesting too is that I mentioned you last night.

40:20

You're familiar that cold. I told you about the source family Yeah with father yod, and this is back in the 1970s and they had a similar aspect

40:26

They're on Hollywood Boulevard doing raw food, right? That was that was visited by celebrities like George Harrison but with this love for raw food and vegan food came the spiritual aspect of including introducing the gospel of the

40:39

Essenes it was You had familiarity with yeah, that was actually back the woman the therapist before I found the restaurant

40:47

I was actually introduced. I forgot about that the scene gospel of peace and And Yeah, so that actually did implant some ideas on you know who

40:55

I might have thought Christ was and everything. Yeah So it's a here you are you you're now into alkaline diets and raw food to kind of help do your health issues

41:03

You get into the new age and you're you're there you're in you're taking these different courses

41:09

You're doing goddess temples and you're getting clearing sessions prior to serving raw food to different even celebrities

41:15

And so now it's just this train this train has left the station you're going forward is are there any other aspects of anything from the restaurant you want to kind of Elaborate on before we kind of jump on to like where it went from there because it just Like I said, it just continues to get more interesting and as we develop this it's just good for audience know that This is typically what happens with someone in the new age is that?

41:39

It's always one practice one usually leads to another. Yeah to another to another just because If I can be frank not not trying to take a jab at someone who's into it

41:50

Like I said, usually people would have a very anyone else who's into the new age probably has a very similar past Yeah of difficult upbringing different wounds in there that were made in the image of God We have this

42:00

Jesus shaped hole Yeah, and they're looking to try and you know Walter Martin said what help us to have compassion for these people who are reaching out

42:07

You know for help. Yeah, so that's just something that's really good That's good to know but anything else as far as the restaurant is concerned

42:14

I mean compared to like everything else that's coming. Yeah in this story. I Actually, I mean like I gazing

42:22

I don't know if you guys know what that is But it's like where you sit there and you stare into a person's eyes Like not in terms of it's not supposed to be like, you know, like I mean it is intimate but not like, you know

42:32

That kind of stuff But like you just stare to where like the person disappears and you can see it's really looking for their soul or something

42:40

Like, you know you they they disappear and you become them and all this stuff starts happening It gets very like multi -dimensional and weird and yeah, you know,

42:48

I all kinds of stuff starts happening there Your mirror is essentially what they teach, you know, I mean I had staring contests my brothers and sisters going

42:57

This is like, you know You're trying not to have any words or any expression or any anything and it I mean

43:03

Especially for someone like me that had seen things my whole life Major so what

43:08

I was gonna say just real quick is like that whole world within cafe gratitude like that first I mean it started like there was a branch of other stuff that started coming in but there it was very contrasty some of the stuff that I ended up in and the festival scene and all this other stuff because The gratitude world was very loving.

43:27

It was very sweet. It was very Pure in essence in terms of the New Age there's can be really weird stuff in the

43:33

New Age as far as dark and heavy and you know, manipulative and all this stuff and like the that world was actually

43:40

Like it created this like true genuine and like precious love that I had never felt

43:46

Mm -hmm in my previous like I mean, of course my parents were amazing and I mean, you know like close to my family and all that but This was different I had never experienced loved from the world that felt safe that felt held that felt seen that felt

44:01

You know all that kind of stuff so that's just something that was like it was special to kind of in a way to be born through that in the new the

44:08

New Age as like my primary Because then honestly it like everything else contrasted like there was so much contrast that came from that point.

44:16

Yeah, that's the hook, right? That's what moves you initially in that spiritual Sense, but I have a question in terms of when this like popcorn moment happens when you're going when you're working at this location

44:26

How did it make you see the things of your your past at that time? What like didn't like the night terrors essentially you had a sleep paralysis.

44:34

How now were you viewing? What you had been through in the past as as into in that moment

44:41

Then how were you making sense of those things? Well, some of it didn't make sense till later.

44:47

Honestly took several more years to kind of put all the pieces together. But I Finally saw how sad

44:58

I was as a child how much I was always really sensitive

45:03

To both, you know actual things with relationships and friendships and you know Family stuff but also like in spiritual ways and health ways and all kinds of ways just very sensitive kid that had no

45:16

And like all the sudden this contrast of what felt I mean, they they were my family at the time

45:23

They were they were you know people that we went through that this big process together in fact one of my like first teachers was someone who was much younger than me that started working at the restaurant and She and I were the ones that created the home together the goddess vortex and Community house for like I don't know probably two or three years this massive, you know

45:45

We had all kinds of events and whatever I mean not massive but it was a good a good little thing there in the mission in San Francisco and her and I also ended up going to that school together that I'll talk about shortly and And then we worked together.

45:58

So we were like we were yeah, and she had been into it Like since she was young in her teenage years she was deep like really really deep and she taught me a lot already like about she was a yoga master at like a

46:09

Very young age and I don't say that lightly like most people think they're much more You know like knowledgeable in yoga like, you know, then they actually are like there's like a true humility in some way

46:21

True, but like there's there's a humbleness to it's a true yoga teachers and she was she knew a lot and Just yeah herbalist and all sorts of things.

46:32

So she taught me a lot in the writing So this this place that you've entered this school you went to is known as the hippie

46:37

Harvard and this was This is kind of after this is where working at the restaurant

46:46

Cafe gratitude. This is you end up at CIA CIIS CIIS, okay a bit of a tongue twister

46:53

Yeah, it stands for the California Institute of integral studies and it's casually called hippie

47:00

Harvard there's a few other schools sort of similar like Naropa and I forget some of the others off the top of my head, but CIIS in San Francisco is one of the most highly accredited within those types of schools

47:16

And I got my completion bachelor's degree there so I like literally got a degree in the new age

47:23

Yeah, and it would be like the who's who as far as yeah Gurus when you think about like Abraham Hicks like dr.

47:30

Wayne Dyer. They're more like Authors like there was more right

47:36

You know Stanislav Grof. He is Sort Of a

47:42

Carl Jung type like he has a whole field of psychology that Extends from Carl Jung and I he was one of my teachers, you know

47:50

I sat before him him and Rick Tarnas who does archetypal astrology and they've written books together.

47:56

So they mix this whole realm of psychology that had very much so like acknowledges like the child's life in the womb and what happens and it's

48:06

Long and it's complicated But I studied directly from the two of them Sitting right in front of them for eight days in a row for eight hours a day and at the time

48:15

Because I didn't know any better. I felt like I was sitting in front I remember I would tell people I'm sitting in front of Jesus and Buddha like they're telling me all the keys to the universe

48:22

You know and and that was just I mean one I had tons of teachers. I the lead dream research

48:31

Person at Stanford she was our lucid dreaming course teacher Sylvia Nakesh the very world -renowned sound healing teacher and performer and whatever else

48:44

Gosh I took somatic psychology. I was in a master's class in women's studies

48:51

With oh my goodness. The list goes on and on of all these Tantric studies and by tantric studies,

49:00

I'm talking about the concept of the universe that's often misused in the New Age Yoga studies.

49:06

Oh, I took a course called a recent history in psychedelic drugs from one of the maps Professors the multi

49:12

Association for psychedelic studies that are the whole group. That's like legalizing You know mushrooms and everything all over the place those guys

49:20

There's some of those guys are my teachers and everything at this school. It's connected to like Esalen the big

49:27

Hub of Essentially the New Age that came through and like the what I want to say 50s and 60s down there.

49:33

And yeah, yeah That's how the Enneagram got brought to United States to us. That's that right there.

49:39

Yeah. Yeah, I spent some time at Esalen We didn't talk about this the other day, but I was there briefly in that place

49:45

Whoa that I mean, I've spent a lot of time in a lot of different places places. I Actually think it has something to do with like potentially

49:52

I mean, you know, I see things differently now, but at the time like Different land would have different experiences, you know when

49:59

I'd be at a pyramid or I'd be wherever like you'd have different experiences And yeah, I mean even if you think

50:05

I'm just thinking even if you how much culture has just really

50:11

Populized and is in is currently normalizing psychedelics and you know We'll maybe have some opportunities to talk about this as we continue to unravel your story

50:20

But you know just to give an example, you know, Joe Rogan. He's one of the biggest person who kind of Promotes the idea of DMT use psychedelic use and has normalized it and it's talked about consistently with a different guest that he has in fact one of the

50:37

Books that he just he literally just an Instagram post about this book called the four agreements

50:43

Which he is talking all about relation to psychedelic. It's not do you reckon? Did you recognize the book? Oh, I've read it that used to be in my library that really

50:51

Yeah, I actually still have to burn some books. Okay, and it may still be in that collection of stuff but yeah,

50:57

I know that was definitely and I actually know people that studied with with Miguel Ruiz like ongoing like that's one degree off from where I was right and just the reason why

51:08

I'm sharing this post and maybe On this YouTube world may take a screenshot of supposed by Joe Rogan where he's talking about this.

51:13

This was something that Was part of your integral study back then it was not as popularized now on this

51:20

I mean he's had Joe Rogan has one the number pretty much the number one podcast in the world in this post itself

51:25

You've got you know over a quarter of a million likes You've got nearly 7 ,000 comments people talking about how amazing it is

51:34

So this is just something that it's important to realize that as we're discussing this the more secularized a culture becomes which is where we're at There's this vacuum where these sorts of practices just become normalized just because people have that Jesus shaped hole where they want to fill in that void that's created by the secular culture.

51:53

So yeah. Yeah, that's fascinating I love how you just said that it's so true I mean you even see it in like clothes and everything now, you know, just recently going to Marshall's and I Wow, every other shirt not really but a lot, you know dreamcatchers and you do astrology, you know

52:12

Yeah, it's everywhere now I remember when it actually happened this is a total side note but like years later

52:18

I Remember being like in a Ross or something. It seemed like overnight all the clothes had

52:24

Indigenous patterns and it was just and I remember at the time thinking like wow the world's catching on, you know,

52:29

I had this whole That's so cool, you know, it's coming into the mainstream culture and it's funny because now

52:37

I see what you just said is It's like actually because the void it was just getting bigger and bigger that all this other stuff came in.

52:45

That was yeah Yeah, well, I went to each of my Ross I went to a Ross Cup maybe like a year ago And they had a whole section when they were just a whole bunch of Ouija boards for sale

52:53

Just at a Ross. Yeah, Phoenix. I often take pictures like of stuff that I find when I'm at stores

52:59

I have there's so much stuff like especially you get to go around the holidays And there's all these things that I'm like, wow, that's meant for kids and you know, you just see it everywhere

53:06

All right So you're in CIS or you're doing all these different trainings like that familiarity with a lot of you know People are even more popular now right on some of your books and things that you're studying

53:14

And where did it go from there or anything else elaborate on? Well that time period of just the expansiveness

53:20

So essentially it was kind of you know my whole I was closed off on some level even though I was a very outgoing as a child and involved in all the scenes and popular and blah blah

53:31

There was a suppression and so all of a sudden I'm opening, you know, and it was just never -ending I mean

53:36

I was running off on vision quests getting all kinds of healing modality certifications I was going to Burning Man from right from the get -go like right after landmark like a week or two later

53:46

I went to my first Burning Man. I didn't even know what I was in for I went like seven times total, but I was running off to Bali.

53:53

Yeah, do you want just real quickly? I mean, can you give a quick maybe three minute overview of what Burning Man is?

53:58

I know I remember when I first saw it. I didn't understand it It was all these people dressed in steampunk with this different weird architecture

54:05

You just it was just all over the place is how I would describe it But it is explain maybe to the audience who doesn't know what

54:12

Burning Man is. Yeah, just help people understand that Um Granted I stopped going right as it really exploded and became like more well -known and popular.

54:22

I think my last year was 2012 2013 anyways, uh, it is a social experiment.

54:31

It is a The speaking more so from what I saw when

54:38

I was coming before Paris Hilton started going and all that, you know It basically like they take money out of the equation out there

54:47

Like you can't buy anything and people think oh you're bartering. Not really. It's a gifting society

54:53

So you find somebody like for example, these people showed up from Japan. They didn't even speak

54:58

English. They had nothing They had no water. They had no special shoes like your feet get messed up out there, you know

55:03

It's a little bit Mad Max like you're like really having to tough it at the same time It's like a glorious party at the same time.

55:11

It's that Sped up version of law attraction where it's just wild. So the gifting thing somebody needs something you give it to them

55:18

Bye, have fun. Have a good burn and then 20 minutes later You lose your jacket and somebody else has like amazing jacket and they just happen to want to give it to you and it's like this whole thing of like like the co -create your reality thing, it's like Amplified a bazillion times out there.

55:36

It's it's really Interesting and then it's you know, just tons of Workshops of anything you can imagine.

55:44

I mean there's actually Christians. We know some I have friends that go out there to witness and stuff but It's every kind of workshop every kind of thought process, you know

55:57

Learning training camp of kind of food whatever like everything out there For example, what the first time

56:03

I went I went with cafe gratitude We had camp gratitude right like and we're telling people giving them their affirmations and giving them shots of noni juice and whatever

56:13

I'm not gonna say the explicit of a word You know, I'm trying to say expletive that word but camp go yourself

56:21

Hmm was camped right next door to us. Huh? So there's like literally a full spectrum of everything out there

56:28

I mean, there's like dead Barbie at all camp like who knows why but like dead Barbie at all camp, you know every kind of camp and then so there's a big man in the middle and the man is essentially like an

56:39

Idol if you will of everybody's like basically kind of like putting their energy on the man of everything

56:44

They want to let go all week. It's it's huge and it's out there all week and then on Saturday night. They burn it and Like the wicker man,

56:52

I believe it's called kind of reminds me of yeah And then on Sunday night is the temple burn which is totally different like the man burn on on Saturday night is whoa

57:02

You know everybody's screaming and raging and letting go of all the things and then the temple burn all week people have been it's as close thing that you can find to like like maybe what we get with God out there is

57:13

At the temple all week people are going and putting pictures of their deceased loved ones and things that are just like these

57:19

You know their child that might have passed on or a really humbling, you know, somebody's Wedding gown that they got, you know that they lost their marriage you know these like the this like release right that we would do in repentance or something of that nature and But they're putting these these like sacred things in the temple like literally building layers of this inside of this massive

57:42

Structure and then when the temple I'm getting chills. This is weird when the temple burns on Sunday night it's

57:53

It's like everybody's crying and they're silent and there's no screaming there's no anything people are hugging each other

58:00

It's like, you know, it's the closest thing to It's like a counterfeit crucifixion, yeah, you know what

58:08

I mean? like it's they're placing all of their hopes their sins all these things on the On an idol and they're looking for salvation is just what people do, you know

58:16

They're looking for God somewhere else and that's that's what happens. You know, that's it's really sad

58:23

Yeah, I think that's I just but also you mentioned you went multiple times So it's that I mean this is sort of like the

58:29

State Fair of you know Spirituality, which is it's got everything. It's kind of a pilgrimage like deep fried deep fried spirituality from every aspect

58:37

Well, they try and deep -fry everything Yeah Especially now now this when

58:42

I was you know, I mean it like somewhere towards the end of my experiences Yeah, I started understanding what it was and they'd be like you what a burning man

58:50

You're wearing one of those You know Like we have those like belts the utility belts that are all made from leather like you just a look people have a look out

58:56

There yeah, I mean not there's tons of different kinds of looks cuz there is everything out there, too And it's definitely extra in many ways

59:06

Extra that for sure Yeah, so just that that was really going after and just real quickly I would just say it just found interesting that you know there's all this accumulation on taking the past and burning the past and that's done with but Then you're back again the next year and the next year and the next year

59:22

So it's like there's no end in sight tons of stuff in between going on for all the people too. I mean, yeah

59:27

Yeah So I mean I get think of this look at this so this continued to evolve and you're just going after one thing to another And you're talking about you're evolving and burning man.

59:34

Yeah when we were talking you were it was There's aspects to of the past and you know your relationship with your parents

59:42

Mm -hmm, you know and like I said just not having a father who was there but not there

59:49

There is sort of this father hunger that we may I think we all innately have as image bearers of God I think all of us

59:54

I think in one way or another I think all of our earthly fathers fail us in some level right and then that what do we do with that father hunger and for You that would you want to talk about how what happened as far as it goes in the

01:00:07

New Age? Sure. Yeah Yeah, there's you know

01:00:16

Lots of kind of like sacred tourism if you will then it kind of goes on through this area, but I Eventually ended up in So I had had like a really bad ayahuasca experience actually with my caveat gratitude family on on one of the islands and Yeah, I was it was horrific.

01:00:37

It was a really really bad to tell everyone what I ayahuasca is real quick so it's a vine from Central America mostly,

01:00:45

I mean it can grow in Hawaii and other places as well, but it's It's a psychedelic. It's pharmachea.

01:00:51

It's deep deep deep one. I mean, there's lots of different ones, but that one is

01:00:57

It's not my favorite honestly Well, I would say people have all sorts of healing of some sort healing of some sort to try to go into the parts of your potential psyche or spiritual body or Different realms and try to heal things and the

01:01:16

Like there's like Aya herself, you know, like there's a spirit that you communicate when you're in these realms and it's it's like I Would literally

01:01:28

I used to explain it to people when they'd be like shopping for different like psychedelic healing experience

01:01:33

I'd be like are you Every other psychedelic you've ever done like wrap it in a in like a spiral and then

01:01:42

Times it times 50. I mean, it's it's super intense and I have tons of experience in different psychedelics, but that one

01:01:50

It was not my favorite. Let me just put it that way. Yeah So I had had that negative experience and then

01:01:56

I was afraid I was never gonna do any like that kind of stuff ever again But at one point one of my teachers so I had lots of Mentors that just gravitated.

01:02:08

I never never sought them out or anything but people kind of took me under their wings at various points and she brought me to a

01:02:15

Native American Church and I Have again a lot of respect

01:02:21

Incredible respect and love for this this person and this family essentially is what

01:02:26

I ended up in But Yeah this church serves the

01:02:33

Wachuma medicine, which is the San Pedro cactus. It's kind of similar to like peyote and I Preferred it much.

01:02:43

I mean I I partook in that a lot Over the next several years like a lot a lot a lot a lot of ceremonies actually assisted in a lot of the ceremonies and I I Received some healing in those ceremonies.

01:02:58

Absolutely, but it was always lacking and there was a one ceremony where I was doing when it's your turn you go up to the altar and you drink the medicine you say your prayers and You know the essential shaman of the ceremonies, you know helps you.

01:03:13

He also has a background in psychology He was a met a trained medicine man, but also Background in psychology.

01:03:19

So it was it was a very unique container compared to like some Native American churches and Yeah, one day

01:03:27

I was having a major healing about my dad and a lack of relationship in a way that might have felt good to any young woman, you know, and The man who ran this ceremony essentially adopted me as a spiritual father and It's wild I mean, like I said,

01:03:51

I have so much love and care for this person and but Looking back on it it did, you know, it helped in a way

01:04:01

I suppose fill a void that was there but when I got saved later years later, obviously

01:04:06

I Was like wow, that's what he was trying to fulfill and like it's just not possible there is no human fulfillment that can compare to God's love and so yeah, but I It you know it made me feel a sense of belonging that I didn't know in my earthly realm on some level at that point and I Yeah, I'm kind of devoted my life to that church for a while,

01:04:33

I mean I was doing other things I was actually living and apprenticing with a so I was doing the medicine work as they call it with this man that my spiritual father and the whole it was a big church in the

01:04:44

Bay Area there and me still is I believe and Simultaneously over in Marin County living and apprenticing with the

01:04:52

Lakota elder a woman who ran a school that was all about the indigenous arts, but more so from like dance and movement and breath work and Prayer and things of that nature.

01:05:07

So I had both ends of the spectrum really going at the same time throughout a whole I think this was about 2012 by this point, maybe 11 or 12 somewhere in there and Yeah, it was it was impactful yet during that time period

01:05:25

I went to the Golden Gate Bridge and thought I was going to Do something really stupid with my life.

01:05:31

I was still deeply struggling on and off my whole life. I Dealt with a lot of depression and suicidal thoughts and stuff like that.

01:05:40

And yeah, I went there with that intention. Oh, man Would that be indicative to a lot of people in the new age where it's sort of the

01:05:50

There's a lot of certain like a front almost where there's this all this sort of surface I'm happy and spiritual but a lot of them like deep internally.

01:05:57

They're struggling. So I remember That's part of Stevens testimony to the people that he was involved with in the new age

01:06:03

He sort of saw the fact that they were almost living a double life where they're telling people This is what you need to do.

01:06:09

Yeah to be fulfilled Yet There there's they're internally struggling too.

01:06:16

And then we see both sides of the looking -glass That's where you almost start to have some cognitive dissidence with okay.

01:06:22

How legitimate actually is this or like where what's the endgame? How do I? Yeah, cuz at this point,

01:06:29

I mean you've you've gone to different places too and maybe So if anyone isn't solidified how much you're into it because you're talking about the

01:06:35

Golden Gate Bridge just if everyone remembers so right now it's 2021 and You know everyone's talking about what's going on in the current states of the world and what that means for you know the end of the world and everyone's sort of interpreting current events and their light and within the lens that they're looking through but 2012

01:06:54

Was a very interesting year a lot of people put emphasis on that year. There was a movie made about it

01:07:00

That was pretty cheesy. I think with John Cusack and there's a point where it was, you know me and movies. Oh, yeah

01:07:07

Yeah for the audience It was just there's a whole movie made about it, but the Mayan calendar and things like that and but all joking aside

01:07:14

When you talk about someone who is a true believer and in Aspects of the

01:07:21

New Age bring people into where you were in a 2012 Yes, so That was not easy to get down there another one of these pilgrimages if you will major one yeah,

01:07:34

I Got invited to be on the production crew at Chichen Itza the big

01:07:39

Mayan pyramid. That's like in all the pictures For the December for 12 21 12 the like gateway that everybody

01:07:46

I mean, I don't know not everyone thought but we we contemplated we some people definitely believed that we were going to shift into a 5d reality that you know

01:07:56

We would ascend that we would remember our Christ consciousness because of the alignment that was going on in the stars and the

01:08:03

Mayan prophecy and Bobbety Bobbety Bobbety all these You know Earthly create, you know celebrating the creation realms and Yeah, so we went down there about a week maybe 10 days before the big day

01:08:19

And we're setting up a festival down there for What ended up being?

01:08:25

Gosh, I don't even know. I mean not necessarily at just our festival, but people pilgrims Pilgrimaged from all over the world there for what was called like apocalysm tourism

01:08:35

Mm -hmm I mean they ran out of everything at the stores long before the actual date like that those little villages down there could not handle, you know the amount of Gringos coming down Yeah, it was crazy it was it was a gnarly production but that's another story

01:08:56

But yeah, it was incredibly Spiritual it was you know all kinds of shamans and medicine people and teachers and seekers and new eight new agers that didn't call themselves new agers because nobody does in the new age, but You know every kind of spiritualist you can imagine coming down there for the same purpose and You know, there we are on it was like 4 in the morning, but the big night and I was actually called up last minute into a ceremony.

01:09:27

We were on the the elders land Which like you could see the pyramid, but we weren't like right there

01:09:33

I'd spent a lot of time at the pyramid building up to this throughout the week, but And then we spent all day there everybody there was dressed in white it was a whole thing tons of pictures on my timeline of that but Yeah, you know nothing

01:09:47

Particularly crazy happened. I did see and like another realm like what seemed like, you know something opening when

01:09:54

I was there and because there were seven of us around this huge altar like the size of this table with Sacred geometry and crystals and all sorts of stuff set up and we there were seven of us

01:10:03

Holding hands around it and you know We were all praying and doing the thing during to hold then you know the hundreds of people around us and the thousands of people on the land and you know, it was like a thing and and Then we were like, well, we're still here you know and Yeah What that ended up leading into is me going to Guatemala and that was a whole other boatload of stuff

01:10:31

Because basically, you know, there's all these people from all over the world And a lot of them were just like me had bought a one -way ticket

01:10:40

Down there and you know, nothing happened. Okay. Well, what's next? So We caravanned down through some various areas, but ended up on Lake Atitlan San Marcos In Guatemala and there was so many people there.

01:10:53

It's one of these hubs Anyways of the New Age like we mentioned earlier. I forgot to talk about San Marcos, but it's a hub at any time right but because of that particular year and everything there were so many people there and I Was there for over a month?

01:11:10

I don't remember exactly five or six weeks Every single day at least once a day sometimes up to three a day different types of ceremonies

01:11:17

I called it ceremony college. It was just Wow, you know everything from the combo the frog medicine to my first experience with the

01:11:28

DMT to You know their cacao ceremonies the

01:11:33

Mayan like the Mayan culture selling ceremonies song ceremonies everything you can imagine it was

01:11:41

What's that called Kabbalah? There was a Kabbalah teacher down there all kinds of stuff all kinds of stuff and so that one

01:11:52

That changed everything. Honestly, that was like that was big That was like a deepening of everything that I experienced because yeah, like all the volcanoes there and everything.

01:12:01

It's it's an interesting Yeah And just and just real quick before we transition that so people get just I want

01:12:07

Hopefully by now people understand that you were I would say in like Flynn like you were just you were just all about that And while early and what's interesting too is that the way that God describes the world as That you know the

01:12:23

Christ is the image of the invisible God the firstborn over all creations all things were created by him and for him both in the earthly places and in the end in the heavenly places in the unseen realm and there is an aspect to where I think a lot of these ancient cultures weren't just Making those designs just because like oh this looks kind of cool, you know, like I think a lot of them were tapped into some really bad sources and that's where they got the law of the inspirations from and that Every single

01:12:52

God every single religious system always demands sacrifice. Yeah, and specifically in the

01:12:58

Mayan culture if anyone knows just the basic history of it was blood and human sacrifice What I found interesting we were just telling me just just briefly described real quickly that you

01:13:07

Even when you weren't a Christian you went in those areas and you could you could almost sense.

01:13:13

Oh, yeah This is where we'll just talk about that real quickly. Sure So, you know the pyramid it was intense but that was one energy that felt like something

01:13:21

I wanted to be around and to be a part of at that stage of my Life and then you know these grounds these

01:13:28

Mayan grounds are huge It's not just the pyramid and there was a whole other area and even from a distance

01:13:34

I was like what happened over there? I didn't know yet like nobody we hadn't been on the tours or whatever to know what happened

01:13:41

But I could feel it like in the spirit realms and I didn't like it the set of the human sacrifice and come to find

01:13:47

Out that's where they would take you know the virgins and the babies and everything and do the sacrifices there and I mean then like Palenque when we made our way through Palenque It's even worse there and come to fight

01:13:58

I felt it like we literally ran through Palenque partly because we were trying to make it to the border but I didn't like it there at all

01:14:06

Like some people stayed there for quite a while after we were at Chichen Itza and we were like, no, let's get to Guatemala you know, it was not something that I Thought was cute.

01:14:16

And yeah, so then eventually, you know, we go on tours and you hear about what actually happened And I'm like, see

01:14:22

I felt it Yeah, and so all that in summary, so you're just going from one thing to another and then you're at the place of the

01:14:28

Golden Gate Bridge, I think that was a significant turn where I just just talk about that really quickly and then

01:14:35

Yeah, just talk about that. It's very briefly one. Go ahead when I was there Yeah, the story about the Golden Gate Bridge and there are things that happen when people that you were close to That was later on but but yeah,

01:14:47

I when I was there and went there with that intention Hmm it was

01:14:56

I The best way I could describe it at the time was Movie, I only remember movies from like my childhood and I stopped watching movies somewhere pretty early on like yeah

01:15:07

And but anyways that movie ghost at the end where there's like the Like creepy dark creatures coming out when the bad guy

01:15:14

I think if I remember correctly at the end Anyways, that movie impacted me as a child. It was really disturbing seeing those images

01:15:20

Well that I literally saw something like that Crawl out of my body and jump over the

01:15:26

Golden Gate Bridge instead of me Hmm and I remember at that, you know, you call these things entities in the new age

01:15:32

You would never say demons but like looking back on it. Like I think It it brought me there. Yeah likely to do the thing and then

01:15:40

I don't know maybe that was I don't who knows Right, which is just interesting as historically.

01:15:46

I mean the Golden Gate Bridge. It's it's it's representative I think of just the the creative like God Has given us this ability as image bearers of God to think through and to create and to Cultivate the earth and so in the fact of how the

01:16:03

Golden Gate Bridge is constructed like regular Creatures and animals don't do that. They just you know, walk around and do whatever the animals do, but they don't make

01:16:12

Constructs like that. So this thing that they built from the ground up was used to help people

01:16:18

Go back and forth one another but it's also it's become this famous landmark

01:16:25

Unfortunately where a lot of people have ended their lives And so I remember going to the Golden Gate Bridge on a tour.

01:16:31

We did bike riding across. It's like back in 2010 and there's like signs everywhere the suicide hotlines and it's what it's known for and I remember just Parent going there and just peering over how far of a drop that is.

01:16:45

Oh, yeah Yes, and I just just for a second I just I was having a good time

01:16:51

Yeah, just for a second. I just what what goes in someone where they contemplate that, you know, and it's just man.

01:16:58

Well It's interesting to me thinking about in terms of your adolescence

01:17:04

Like let's say like there's like alcohol use later on your college years That's when there starts doing some drug use and things like that like mushrooms and all of a sudden your body's really sick after that So you start doing this cleanse?

01:17:15

Mm -hmm My question is were you were you fully off of drugs and sober during the time of your like your cleansing days going back now into Psychedelics, were you was there a period where you're totally sober?

01:17:28

I wasn't drinking as I put that but you're referencing like I Once I got into all this spiritual stuff,

01:17:34

I felt thought of alcohol is a very like low vibration, you know It was dirty. It was not it was

01:17:40

I was above it, but you're still smoking pot Yeah, like more earth -based stuff and and and yeah psychedelics

01:17:46

I would say definitely like I mean not continuously I was often somebody that was sober when people thought

01:17:52

I wasn't because of like my dance and stuff and that's a whole other thing but I would dance incredibly hard for eight hours at a time sometimes and people be like What are you on and I'd be like nothing spirit spirit, you know

01:18:04

And just very quickly because I don't know how much we went to this earlier because we also want to get into Where the story turned and you know for the better But you were in something just so people don't

01:18:15

I want to make sure I pronounce this correctly because it might sound like something that's not but it is a static dance, which is

01:18:23

Specifically a new age thing that you got into just explain that very briefly and just yeah

01:18:30

Ecstatic not the other word. That's kind of the same amount of syllables it is generally speaking it is a

01:18:37

Between two and three hour journey of a It's more they're more than DJs they're like audio shamans

01:18:47

There's they create like journey music that has a whole like up and down element up peak, you know the ecstatic moment and then down and then

01:18:56

The general rules on the dance floor at least when I started and stuff was no talking on the dance floor

01:19:04

No shoes on the dance floor and no booze on the dance floor So generally sober environment.

01:19:11

I mean people might have smoked pot or you know had taken whatever Some sort of like medicine is what most people call.

01:19:18

They don't call it drugs usually But something to that effect like in a ceremonial way in a spiritual way trying to connect to some source bigger than yourself

01:19:28

And yeah, it's a prayer. It's a ceremony. It's a ritual it is Therapy it is what often

01:19:35

I I mean, I called it church, you know, I called it It was it was my favorite out of every spiritual practice.

01:19:42

I was involved in That was my thing. That was where I found freedom the best that I could at that point and Had my therapy sessions and had my releases of you know

01:19:57

I mean sometimes for me in particular I had no I wouldn't hold back if it needed to be an ugly dance if it needed to be a you know

01:20:04

Emotional dance like it wasn't about Choreography. I mean I grew up doing like train dancing.

01:20:10

It wasn't I mean it might have been some of that as well but it was It was more an emotive

01:20:19

Healing type thing there's always an altar created in the space Yeah You know It was it's there's an intention set at the beginning usually some sound healing at the end all that kind of stuff

01:20:29

And what and while there's a variety of New Age practice of different New Age practices and how they're carried out the one commonality they have is crossing over To obtain whatever you're trying to attain whether it's knowledge whether it's peace whether it's that inner healing you're crossing over to an area which biblically, we have a place where Christ is a center of Christ is the healer all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are in him.

01:20:55

Amen, but there's also Places that I'll call just no -fly zones and regardless of your intentions

01:21:01

Regardless of the fact that you know, you went through a lot in your life a lot of legitimate traumas.

01:21:07

I have legitimacy that You crossed over into areas that God says don't do that included the aesthetic dance

01:21:18

You want to just talk just give one example about? When I crossed over like something else took over at one point

01:21:24

I was right away. My first festival. This was way back actually like jumping around a bit but in like 2007 or 8

01:21:35

Yeah, I had taken a bit of mushrooms at this festival and it was a you know You stay up all night dancing and it was this particular

01:21:42

Audio shaman if you will he plays like 40 instruments brilliant guy super nice guy friend of mine back in those days

01:21:49

But anyways, his music is very special and his sunrise sets were like the most special thing at festivals

01:21:55

And so it was my first set of his mushrooms and my first festival and I had

01:22:03

So I was a trained dancer all my life of all these worldly dances like in a way I was, you know exposed to Paganism and such through Polynesian dancing

01:22:11

Middle Eastern dancing and stuff when I was little so anyways all these dance forms Came together on this dance floor at my first festival because the music is very worldly it has all kinds of different music mixed in with intentions and you know affirmations and all the things and it was like Okay, like here

01:22:30

I am as a vessel right literally as like a vessel for this dance to move through me and then at some point

01:22:36

I get trained as a Dakini which that also has two different meanings and like the

01:22:41

New Age world and I'm talking about as like a spiritual Dancer that's what that you know, it's like a creative energy

01:22:48

Not doing it justice on like what the thing is if you look it up, but not the other realm but anyways, um,

01:22:58

I That's what I would do Like before I got on the dance floor for all those years,

01:23:04

I would literally ask the goddess to dance through me and Would end up with whiplash literally and broken like toes and you know throwing out my back and knees that were popping out of a joint and all kinds of crazy stuff and Yeah, so that was that was my practice really it was it was like but it was this it was like war

01:23:26

I was in This I mean you think a spiritual warfare now, but it was it was this like you're reaching for this spiritual nature

01:23:35

But through these realms this yeah Colossians chapter 2 speaks about it

01:23:41

It speaks about the elemental spirits of the world and not falling captive to them And then there's a reason why later it talks about asceticism and severity to the body

01:23:48

Because all those the although those things look appealing to man man -made I mean to man -made religion that sense looks appealing to people because there's so much going on You're putting so much force into it.

01:23:59

There's a reason why God warns about it though. It's very specifically severity to the body That sacrifice can't appease

01:24:06

God by any means but you're giving your body in an act of worship to an entity but to bring it back to the

01:24:12

Golden Gate experience where I was asking the questions early about this like the Psychedelics, so the

01:24:17

Golden Gate experience. This was after the ayahuasca. This is after the the cactus Was this after the simultaneously after ayahuasca and Yeah during the same window is because I was sitting with the cactus stuff like, you know

01:24:33

Every weekend or every every other weekend for like a year, you know I was with that all the time and so it was somewhere in that zone that same zone

01:24:40

Because what because what I find interesting is earlier when you were talking when you were young at being at like five or six having

01:24:47

Suicidal ideation. Yeah, right and then I want to see the silver silver cordon throughout all of this because God is sovereign

01:24:54

He's been present throughout your whole life guiding you to a very specific point and purpose And even allowing things to happen to you to bring you to a point, right?

01:25:03

So what I find interesting is we have five six we see there's the spiritual deprivation and needing of a

01:25:10

Savior but instead having suicidal ideations in this form of like, you know self -sacrifice but then going to the point where you're living your whole life and You know, you're you're learning so much you're getting all this knowledge

01:25:23

Supposedly you're going through all of this healing then. It's like God shows you real quick He says well look where you are.

01:25:29

Just like when you were five or six, you're right back here without me It's just like the people at Burning Man like Burning Man's been canceled since last year and I believe it's canceling again this year

01:25:38

Right. Well, where's their sacrifice? They can't go and sacrifice anymore. Well Christ is the once -for -all sacrifice to say to settle all of it

01:25:46

Right, the answer is already there, but I find that's what I kind of find interesting It's like God's bringing you back to this place almost of childhood

01:25:52

Yeah, I'm like look look where what you're doing has brought you What where were you in that mindset at the

01:25:58

Golden Gate Bridge? Like all of a sudden you've been through so much in your life You've experienced so much but you're right back to when you were five or six years old.

01:26:06

Like what did that do to you? Well yeah,

01:26:14

I mean I Honestly, I don't have a total recall of what it was like after I left the bridge like it's a bit of a vague memory

01:26:22

I think I felt relief that that thing went instead of me But what that just reminded me of is in The same day that I was adopted by the spiritual father father in the medicine ceremony

01:26:36

He was like you're just like a big wounded little girl, aren't you? Like not in like a bad way.

01:26:42

He was just seeing like I mean, he was a Shaman if I ever saw one, he wouldn't call himself one, but I could see him seeing and Yeah, he saw us in there and he could see me as that little girl that had walked away

01:26:58

From wound after wound after wound or a wound it had like found that moment with him. So Yeah, that's interesting.

01:27:06

Mm -hmm. Yeah, and so You get to a point and I want to be careful how

01:27:11

I structure this because we have a large audience and you know it's Suicide is a real thing that a lot more people struggle with universally both

01:27:21

Christians non -christians, it's it's sometimes even even amongst the

01:27:26

Christian world It's a very taboo thing to talk about Yeah But it's something that a lot of people struggle with on a regular basis and especially now you think of the astronomical

01:27:35

Suicide rates that have escalated since since kovat happened with the isolation and the quarantine and yeah

01:27:41

A lot of people losing their livelihoods that they spent years to build But that played a part

01:27:48

With someone that you are close to which led now and also while we talk about this.

01:27:55

It's also I want to Say that this area of darkness still was a catalyst to bring you

01:28:04

To an to an area where we're gonna get to but it was someone that you were close to I'll just talk about that real quickly.

01:28:11

So people kind of get an understanding, you know, given the background everything that you've been through. Yeah, so Yeah, that was actually a little while later, but there was

01:28:21

There was some different Darkness stuff that happened and then I eventually ended up on kawaii

01:28:28

In early 2018 and a friend of mine a very dear friend of mine

01:28:37

Who I sat in those ceremonies with and she was with me at the pyramid down there in Mexico and She Was successful and what

01:28:49

I went to that bridge to do that day. She went there She was a very, you know respected well like longtime yoga teacher and I think

01:28:58

I want to say she was a therapist She was she was of a well -loved community and you know person that had some professional aspects to her and all that and she was suffering and Yeah, she did basically the same thing.

01:29:18

I I Had gone there ahead of time and picked my location and all that like it was like it wasn't just like a spur -of -the -moment and she did the same thing and yet she succeeded and So and that was one of many like she she was

01:29:35

I think the second person in my life I mean, I was close to her. So it was hard, but I Probably know at least a dozen or more people that have either

01:29:47

Taken their own life or gone out in some strange way that a Lot of that really started to make me question what was going on in that scene because a lot of these people were well known as One of them incredibly like she was famous and successful and all the things when she was my teacher she was like a barefoot hippie, but years later she

01:30:09

Was making gosh, I don't know $10 ,000 ahead on her workshops and stuff that she would do

01:30:16

I mean she was super successful and Yeah, so but the one over the bridge that was that was hard really hard and hard for our whole community

01:30:30

Because not just community on I mean honestly like I was part of the global community of this stuff and so is she and you know, so I mean it's like ripples like that when what's these kinds of things have happened and Yeah, so there's like a whole window.

01:30:45

Yeah yeah, I'm just you know to like we wanted just just for the sake of time that this is a whole progression of things and that was

01:30:53

Ultimately a lot of this started got to a point where you just started Just questioning a lot of things about the reality around you and you just say just vague just vaguely

01:31:02

You just started doing like a lot of research kind of going down down the rabbit hole And a lot of times when people do and this is a byproduct to of just recent events, you know the last year, you know since March 2020 where people are trying to make sense of the world and there's a level where you can go down rabbit holes where it almost becomes as fragmenting yeah occurs and That can either be a good thing or bad thing but in this particular case that was part of Really your journey just to explain just a little bit about that and what the next progression step is and so yeah

01:31:36

Just previous window to being on Kauai. I was seeing

01:31:42

Various aspects of the festival world and my life in Nevada City and these things where I was

01:31:47

I don't know exactly where I got it from but I was like, wow, these people are chasing a light. It's a very luciferian

01:31:54

Right, right. I could see it on some level, but I didn't understand it quite yet And so I started jumping down dark rabbit holes.

01:32:02

I mean, I was a truther since like 9 -11, you know I'd been like looking at things in a different perspective or whatever trying to try to figure out the truth, right?

01:32:10

and But anyways at that point Jumping jumping jumping into all kinds of stuff and I'm not gonna go into them for the sake of time right now but like as far as you can go down the rabbit holes and Essentially I got

01:32:25

To what I the way I've put it is the bottom of the rabbit holes always like it's dark.

01:32:32

It's slimy It's intense, you know, there's there's lies. There's deception There's there's all the things like as bad as it gets and I was like, whoa

01:32:40

Satan's real I had always seen this like puppet like hands above darkness things in the new age

01:32:47

Like, you know when I'd be in other realms or at festivals I could see these things Anyways, so I at the bottom of that rabbit hole when

01:32:54

I met Satan like I feel like I actually like met the like the depths Of the depths I said, well if he's if Satan's real does that mean

01:33:02

Jesus is real Wow Like the hardcore shift right quickly Mm -hmm, and I was totally comfortable in my 12 years of Christ consciousness at that point like it was not

01:33:13

You know But it was again one of these things where you're looking back the pieces were starting to come together so I'm on Kauai Oh Well, didn't you have a moment to yeah, that's a big part of your history

01:33:28

I'll just Again emphasis the Ecstatic dance.

01:33:33

Yes, you are and this is a point to where we want to talk about just an aspect of how

01:33:39

This is God's sovereignty and all of that about how he reaches and draws every single unique person to himself

01:33:45

But I'm not just read this to as a paraphrase to this is this is

01:33:53

Axe and I was sharing with us this with you tonight. I remember like a my mind's blown right and it's talking about Paul's talk on Mars Hill He says and he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth having determined Allotted periods in the boundaries of their dwelling place that they should seek

01:34:13

God And perhaps feel their way toward him and find him yet. He is actually not far from each one of us

01:34:21

The context I would think about the context of that You're doing you're on a dance floor. Mm -hmm.

01:34:27

You're doing a static dance my pretty bring people into what happened. Yes one of my favorites

01:34:34

So Yeah, I was in the ending where it's very just, you know you've gone through that explosive and you're in that like sweet sacred like nectar you might call it at the end and I Had my eyes closed and it was very prayerful and slow and movement and I felt

01:34:50

Like your whole thing with that is to feel like empty. It's strange But like, you know that kind of like meditation or something that emptiness like just to clear it all away

01:34:59

So I found that clarity and then I had my eyes closed but I Knew it was

01:35:07

Jesus right there before me and I Couldn't see his face.

01:35:12

His face was shining like the Sun. I didn't know scripture at all this is all like and I saw a long robe and I saw sandals and It was like Familiar yet, what is this something that didn't make sense really this

01:35:33

Impactful moment and I Proceeded to learn this kind of like that verse like in like a felt way like this

01:35:42

This wasn't like I necessarily heard words, but he showed me all kinds of stuff

01:35:47

I have it all listed here and I have it all backed with scripture But I'm just gonna say a few for time purpose

01:35:53

He showed me that he is the center of all existence much like Colossians 117

01:36:00

I believe it is and then that he created everything and I have two different verses for that revelations 411

01:36:11

Ephesians 3 9. Sorry. My list is a little messy But he is why everything exists so that goes over to the author of life and acts 315

01:36:23

The list goes on and on. He showed me about 20 different scriptures really like Down the road.

01:36:29

I checked this all was scripture to make sure it was really him He did take me into the new earth.

01:36:34

I didn't know what that was I mean, I had a new age idea But this was different there and and I was shown that there'd be no tears that there would be no hunger that there'd be no death

01:36:44

All these realms right and I mean the list goes on really and really no violence No, I mean,

01:36:50

I didn't know what sin I didn't acknowledge sin is a real thing but that's essentially what I was shown that it was just Yeah, and but just so, you know to this is the point where you're still you're still

01:37:00

Seeing this still through those new age filter almost in a sense You think about Paul's conversion when he has like the scales

01:37:08

Fall off of his eyes after he's blinded after seeing encountering the lip the risen Lord on the road

01:37:13

Yeah, you're still viewing. Yeah this experience and again this is a point to when you look at in first John 4 and it says test the spirits for not every single spirit that Testifies is of God like that that That passage assumes that there's false spirits and there's true spirits that testify hence the term testing

01:37:33

Yeah, how do you differentiate between the two and the question of Scripture mean Walter Martin? Yeah talked extensively about that in several of his lectures

01:37:40

About what spirits testify of the risen Lord and which ones are counterfeit

01:37:45

Yeah, so it's important to differentiate between that but you said that you'd because of where you were you kind of Still sort of wrote that off.

01:37:54

I Thought I reached a new level of Christ consciousness, you know I thought I was being shown something that was

01:38:00

I the best I could make it make do of it Yet it stuck with me.

01:38:06

I kept it kept coming back up and I knew one One beloved

01:38:11

Christian woman in my town that I was living She worked at the health food store and one night

01:38:16

I got the opportunity to ask her Can I tell you a story told her the whole thing? Very sweet elderly woman took off her little spectacles put them on the end of her nose

01:38:27

Grabbed my shoulders pulled me in close and said tree because that's what everybody used to call me because one of the things that he showed me was that he lived at the center of all existence and he was like he showed it to me on my heart and And I said, so if Jesus is the center of all cuz

01:38:44

I was pretty convinced that was real whatever I had seen I said does that mean? That The goddess is everything else around him

01:38:53

The sweet little woman working at the the grocery store. She grabs my shoulders and says tree

01:38:59

Jesus is the way the truth and the life. He is the only real truth and Everything else about this goddess is a lie straight from the enemy

01:39:09

Wow Yeah, I love it. Yeah and And So it shocked me and then she basically proceeded to put a little care package together with a book and some

01:39:21

YouTube links and Track in there and you know stuff like that and I came and picked it up and it started the process

01:39:27

I remember looking at track at one point being like this is a big deal. You know, I could tell like, you know the idea

01:39:33

The cross and everything like it crossed my mind But I wasn't there yet went off to Kauai Things, you know proceeded to both be awesome in my island life and also dark

01:39:46

There was a lot of overlapping much like the life there and Yeah, I The living situation

01:39:59

I was in The work situation that I was involved in Basically, I ended up having

01:40:09

Some betrayal some the the man that I was dating various things all at once sort of Started just really just not good some stuff various things, you know taking advantage of and all kinds of things and It was enough to basically like start oh

01:40:31

I skipped I passed a whole important thing which was So The YouTube lists that the woman had given me from the store it created the algorithms and I had come across Stephen Bancars Oh, yeah.

01:40:45

Yeah, he started researching Christian stuff. So slowly went from Consciousness meditation

01:40:51

Kundalini awakening YouTube's being regenerated And it was like they were better back then the algorithms were better they take you in the right directions

01:41:02

So, yeah Stephen and it was funny because it was Stephen destroying this painting who was an artist friend from my new age days

01:41:09

Very well -known artist. That was the first thing I saw of his and I would be like, why is he destroying this like?

01:41:15

Incredibly valuable painting of a friend of mine That's you know, it's only a beautiful sacred painting, right? And that was enough to me go check out his page see his testimony see his the rest of his stuff

01:41:24

So I started listening but was only agreeing with parts of it and whatnot. You know how it goes in the beginning

01:41:30

I was a tough tough cookie So, you know and some other

01:41:36

Christian youtubers as well That like face like the Sun God gods and a few others that like have this like fringy topic stuff

01:41:44

But then also are Christians and I would take bits and pieces of it, but kept moving with it

01:41:50

So anyways back to Kauai. I'm on Kauai I had lost quite a few friends from like my friend on the bridge

01:41:57

That was while I was on Kauai and quite a few other intense losses

01:42:03

Questionable living with some people working with some people everybody it got it got really intense on the island

01:42:09

So I basically had posed a question Jesus if you're real like I need you

01:42:14

Will you show yourself to me like will you prove that you're real like it was kind of a little bossy compared to what?

01:42:20

I would do now, you know, but It Wasn't long after that he started placing

01:42:28

When people in my life that Were at least reading the Bible had a Bible.

01:42:34

Maybe they were still involved in some like New Agey type stuff, but All these really unique things people inviting me to church out of the nowhere when

01:42:42

I you know I was drawn to a church. They gave me a Bible so I had a Bible which you know

01:42:47

It was on like I didn't read it, but it was there This was like November of 2018 and and then

01:42:59

Yeah, like just playing like I was boxing up all my like New Age stuff and putting it away and seeing what that felt

01:43:04

Like and I was realizing like I don't need that stuff like it, but maybe that's a distraction you know, like I was just having these kind of epiphanies slowly and You know a bracelet that I had that was from my

01:43:16

Alma devotee world like the ashram. It was given to me I wore that thing for eight years or something and it never broke and it was supposed to break was a wish break bracelet

01:43:24

It broke the same day. I asked Jesus. I said if everything else is fake in that other world Will you show me something and that bracelet finally broke after all those years the very same day

01:43:35

That's so cool. And yeah, so and then you know, there was some scripture honestly like through people watching people's

01:43:43

Channels like Stevens and various people and I remember the first verse that like really had an impact me on me and is

01:43:51

The heart is deceitful and wicked. What's the rest of the heart is equal above all things and desperately wicked who can know it?

01:43:57

179. Yeah, I was like no way because in the New Age it's all about opening your heart and following your heart and like being your bliss and All that self -love and I'm like,

01:44:07

I have a big huge open heart. Wait, I can't trust this It stumped me it was just like wait what mm -hmm and then also the the you know

01:44:17

The the verse that like God's law is written on our hearts, you know, so it was like, oh wait What is how does that compare to what

01:44:23

I just read, you know? and then the one that was like ba -bam ba -bam was Satan masquerades as an angel of light

01:44:33

Yeah 15 right? Yeah whoo that when I mean everything you play with like whether it's a star being or your ancestors or you know a spirit guide or The psychedelic realms like all of it is light like you're playing with light

01:44:47

They'll a lot of times they'll identify themselves as lightworkers that to lightworkers historically I mean just for just for research, you know, there's certain times

01:44:55

I'll follow, you know, different New Age Instagram accounts just to kind of understand The language barrier and how they articulate

01:45:03

What they're trying to get across and I've seen countless times. They'll refer to themselves as lightworkers

01:45:10

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I was so yeah. Yeah so that I can see how reading something like that from Scripture would just It would just all of a sudden there just be this

01:45:21

Shift or other edge of the looking -glass as far as how you're viewing that in light of everything Viewed and practiced in your past right and just that whole segment where I was jumping through dark rabbit holes

01:45:32

Like getting that like wait a minute, you know seeing the connection there of the deception

01:45:38

Essentially of things that and you know My friends chasing the light and in the

01:45:44

New Age that I saw the Luciferian thing it was like click, you know, one of these click moments and So yeah

01:45:52

There was a night that I really needed refuge I was in a tough situation on the island and I prayed out to Jesus at this point

01:46:00

I was basically like I was I was experimenting. I was like, okay, something's real and I said

01:46:05

I need help like I need I need a new place to live I was in between some situations and the next morning this sweet elder man who

01:46:15

Had only briefly met me He knew something was going on that night before and he drove down and he came to me and he said

01:46:22

I know this is Weird, you don't know me, but I feel like you need a safe place to stay for a while and he ended up being like an uncle like family, you know, and So there was a few months of that and I was kind of cushioned in my life

01:46:36

But then ultimately towards the end of my experience staying at his house Living is really hard on Kauai.

01:46:42

It's not easy to find, you know places to stay and stuff Very very expensive and also just what you're talking about earlier and this we experienced this in our plant there that As beautiful as it seems it's very dark, but also there's a very astronomically high suicide rate, too

01:46:58

Which is something for people to be aware of so but you're living situation You're there and you finally have a place to stay.

01:47:05

Yeah, go ahead safe amazing, you know uncle. He's such a great guy I mean, he wasn't a believer. He was but he was listening to my journey and kind of poking fun at me you know, we had it we had a very fun relationship and and Yeah, so towards he let me know

01:47:21

I don't know maybe a few weeks ahead of time that his family was coming to visit from the mainland so he needed my room back and So here

01:47:30

I am going back into the potential of unknowns and it was causing me great anxiety for over a week.

01:47:36

I was Waking up every night about 3 a .m With just like peak level anxiety and I pulled out

01:47:44

Everything from my bags of tricks for a whole week, you know meditation yoga breath work tantric practices

01:47:51

CBD Yoga, dare I say that grounding I would go out and sit on the earth. I'd go to the beach

01:47:57

You know, I would say my affirmations the list goes on on everything all the things that I that I knew how to do

01:48:03

I would do and nothing would work. Nothing would work It was just this like I would often just fall asleep like watching to some stupid thing on YouTube or whatever

01:48:12

It was you know, and and then it was the very night the morning essentially that I had to move out it was a

01:48:19

Friday and That was like the fifth morning at least that I woke up with this anxiety at 3 a .m.

01:48:26

And that morning instead of reaching for any one of the thousands distractions

01:48:32

I Picked up the Bible that I had been given some four months earlier

01:48:38

And I had never gone back to that church in like four months. I'd been there a few times in the fall so I picked up I have it down there actually, um,

01:48:46

I picked up that beautiful green Bible and Put my hands on either side of it and Said a prayer or something like Jesus.

01:48:56

I really need help Can you show me something in this book that will help me and I had my eyes closed still and I you know

01:49:05

Open the pages wherever it may be Put my finger down like this open my eyes and The very first three words is about Matthew 625 that chapter

01:49:20

Yeah, I was like the chapter descriptions, right? Yeah, and right so the little like Subtitle or whatever

01:49:27

Do it was an NIV by an IV Bible. Do not worry.

01:49:32

Mm -hmm And those three words I had a supernatural experience with the Bible those three words literally like Jumped out of the

01:49:40

Bible and through like sifted through Me in a way that gave me a peace that surpasses all understanding like immediately within seconds and I was shocked and then

01:49:55

I just was like, hmm. Okay. Thank you Jesus you know, like was that huh, you know

01:50:09

It was definitely a moment and so I went back to sleep great woke up packed up my life didn't know what

01:50:15

I was doing went and sat in the van to try to figure out the next step and I was prepared, you know for anything at that point and I did the same thing put my hands on the

01:50:27

Bible and said, you know, Jesus it seemed to work earlier Is there something you want me to do next and I kid you not in that exact moment.

01:50:34

I get a text message on my phone and it's the woman who

01:50:39

Was from the church months ago that they had given me the Bible and we had made friends

01:50:45

We hadn't talked at least four months and out of the blue. She messages me and she's like, hey tree, you know

01:50:50

We have a visiting pastor on the island tomorrow. I think you'd really appreciate his message like why don't you come?

01:50:57

And I was like, okay, I'll be there And so I go the next morning and they're set up at not at the church but at this outdoor location right by the ocean and I walk up and sit with my friend and The sermon gets going and the pastor he's up there and he's passionate and delivering the message and he gets to For God so loves the world that he gave his only begotten

01:51:27

Son that those that believe shall not perish and goes on, you know, and I I was the first time that I ever

01:51:34

Really heard the gospel Wow, like I had digested like yeah, okay, whatever this

01:51:39

Jesus guy might have done across whatever But like, you know, like it wasn't it never landed. I never really heard the gospel until that moment and brothers,

01:51:48

I like just Immediately The weight of this is glory like my hands went up.

01:51:55

I was weeping. I was crying. I was shaking. I was repenting I didn't know what repentance meant.

01:52:02

Yeah, I'm sitting there begging him for forgiveness Knowing that he was true. There was not a doubt in my body

01:52:09

That he was true and that I needed to surrender my life to him and it was both like I felt just like so humbled and and like that that forgiveness the repentance like Yeah, like just a sinner.

01:52:28

I knew I was a sinner and also felt like I could taste his promises and his love and his

01:52:35

Truths and all the things it was this beautiful like everything I'd ever been seeking in the New Age Right then and there in that moment

01:52:42

I mean, there's more but like that was the beginning of what I was really seeking. I finally was tasting truth.

01:52:49

Mm -hmm. Yeah Wow And so yeah, the woman that was there with me that invited me.

01:52:55

She was a midwife and afterwards. She's like, okay and I'm like,

01:53:00

I Need to be baptized and I didn't really understand like, you know, the salvation and then baptism thing or whatever that they were

01:53:09

I meant all of it I meant I'm in and so just like that people were running off to the church to get the baptism robes people were going to Get their instruments to be able to sing the hymns people were you know going off and getting towels from their car

01:53:22

And you know I was calling like the few Christians and my parents and stuff that I knew telling them what was about to happen

01:53:29

Throwing some of my New Age stuff in the trash in the bathroom at the beach It was it was just like that and the elders walked me through what it meant to give my life to Christ and And then they all walked and these people barely knew me.

01:53:43

I had attended like two services before and They were just so amazing immediately

01:53:48

Immediately brought into the body of Christ in a way, you know being a part of all the things

01:53:53

I was a part of like, you know thinking I was connected to the most loving unification people like immediately the body of Christ just brought me right under there and And yeah, so they baptized me right there in the ocean like you know, super beautiful and and this is

01:54:09

So if you're paying for fans of cultists, you know that we are under the umbrella of apology of studios.

01:54:15

There's a certain person that's part and it's part and parcel essential to the studio and We wouldn't be here really without him as pastor

01:54:23

Luke the bear Pearson shout out to Luke the giant big bear He just happened to be on the island

01:54:29

That time working on some church planting stuff and he just so happened to be on the beach exactly where you were

01:54:35

That's not and I'm very if anyone knows Luke You know that he just when he gets excited.

01:54:40

He just is like all giddy. And so I remember you said Pulled it out.

01:54:47

Yeah, I mean notice that he was filming you. Yeah. Wow. He just happened to be right there And I had never heard of you guys.

01:54:54

I didn't know who apologia was or any of that and Yeah, so eventually it was like first -person finding this out too.

01:55:01

It was really cool how I found out But we might have to save that story. But yes But yeah, you guys have basically this church like in some way have been there since the very beginning so the fact that I'm here some two plus years later is

01:55:15

My mind is being blown. Yeah, God's amazing. His providence is amazing. You can use all of us together

01:55:21

I mean, we're all just yeah, we're all in the same boat. We're brothers and sisters in the Lord. Yeah Exemplify and talk about how good he is

01:55:28

So so you're there and and you're you know You get baptized you have this conviction of sin and you share with us with me last night is

01:55:34

You know, one of the things that New Agers have the conviction to do when they come to know the

01:55:41

Lord and you saw this in a very Eccentric way in the book of Acts and I believe in Acts 19 with an emphasis where they basically make a bonfire of idols

01:55:52

There they just there's a subtle conviction amongst people who come to the New Age that I just have to get rid of this stuff

01:55:57

Yeah but also It was like this motive you had behind and I'll just set you up for it

01:56:04

Is that it wasn't like you were afraid of God, but you realized that? this had

01:56:11

Hurt his heart. Is that how you elaborate how you said it? That your involvement with the different New Age practices that oh, this is hurt.

01:56:19

God's heart Described at least that was your vantage point, right? Yeah, I was deeply humbled

01:56:26

You know, I feel like now I could put words to it. Like it was grieving his spirit All the other stuff that I was doing because I was trying to seek spiritual fulfillment because I was trying to connect to something bigger than me because I was

01:56:41

I Was doing what I could out of love. I wasn't you know a dark person intentionally or anything of that nature

01:56:47

But now I knew that that was essentially separating me from the one true creator our

01:56:55

Lord Jesus Christ And he frowns upon all these other spiritual realms and you cannot combine

01:57:02

Jesus with the rest of these other spiritual realms like I I went I Took it very seriously.

01:57:09

Mm -hmm and went from being, you know Deeply open and all the spiritual realms to asking the

01:57:15

Lord like shut it all off I don't want to be I don't want to see in those realms anymore. Take away every

01:57:21

Gift, I'm using air quotes that I had in the New Age. Take it all away Lord I don't want any of that anymore and he did it was like that like I went from seeing and like technicolor

01:57:32

Every like colors we can't even see in this realm, you know Like multiple dimensions all the time like I just lived in those kinds of worlds to gray

01:57:40

It wasn't even black and white It was like gray for quite a while and my walk with the Lord was like Just getting in the word and prayer and doing my best to find good fellowship and churches and all of that and You know, but now

01:57:53

I know him as you know, the creator of the universe like he is He is he is far superior than any of those other realms.

01:58:01

It's just very different Yeah, he'll fulfill that desire in every aspect in himself And yes in his word and in his relationship with you and I know his timing in his timing

01:58:11

He's urging you of all of those other things. It's so cool. Hearing all the awesome connections like you live a

01:58:17

Complicated life always learning but never growing in your knowledge of the Lord He has a simple old lady that had known you since you were young giving you like Jesus is the way the truth in life.

01:58:27

All these things are not the truth. Stop it That's like beautiful simple lady Then all of a sudden there's the midwife who helps bring people into the world

01:58:34

Hey, God gives her the gift of seeing someone be born again spiritually right in front of her eyes. Yeah It's just so cool how

01:58:40

God just I don't know how you just brings it all together. It's blowing my mind right now So cool, it's so awesome to to hear that your your testimony of God's grace.

01:58:51

It's just a beautiful thing Yeah, I feel there should be a movie about it. Oh, I Mean, hopefully one day maybe he'll have me write write a book or whatever whatever he wishes.

01:59:02

Yeah, you know, it's not It's not about me anymore for him and you know, even this isn't easy for me here now

01:59:08

But it's what will glorify him. So amen. He deserves it. He is worthy

01:59:14

So, you know, that's right to whatever links he He asks I'll show up to the best of my ability

01:59:20

That's all we can do, right? Yeah Yeah, it's up and makes up the rest. That's what I've been trying to do for you your whole life.

01:59:26

He's like, yeah Yeah, and of course and of course we it feels like these last two hours though I've just flown by I know and there's some what there's so much more that we could elaborate on but I Think we're gonna have a very diverse audience here

01:59:39

But I want to just take a moment for anyone who is in the new age Who is or just in any of those practices?

01:59:47

You know you have it you saying you you get a lot of interesting friend requests And these are a lot of people you didn't necessarily name it.

01:59:55

There's just a lot of people that you do know Actually real quick. I almost totally forgot Just Russell Brand, I totally forgot that story they wrap up tell the story real quick and then we'll wrap things up Okay Goodness, so when

02:00:09

I was working for a global meditation campaign up in Portland we decided we we were praying one night for different guys in our new age community that we thought were leaders and they were

02:00:22

I guess and Russell Brand came into the conversation and my friend and I realized we were both like Super intrigued by who he was his his humor and all these things

02:00:32

So we looked him up his website or whatever and he was like touring like in our region

02:00:37

So we went to Vancouver. I think we saw him first in Portland, but then we went to Vancouver and We found a way you know like the meet -and -greet kind of thing afterwards

02:00:46

We we found our way into this. I don't know 40 or something people that were waiting to meet him And my friend and I were both extremely outgoing performers and teachers and all these things in the new age and we

02:00:59

Basically led these 40 people that would have stared at a glass wall Waiting for Russell to come out.

02:01:05

It took over a half an hour through like a mini festival I mean we had them doing all kinds of singing together and body part twister and it mean you name it

02:01:13

We were like entertaining them using weird accents convincing people were from other I mean it was it was we were like a show essentially her and I ourselves and So it was this whole thing and then towards the end

02:01:23

I don't remember if it was her I that came up with it, but I was like One of us was like let's own

02:01:30

For Russell when he comes out all of us all met him and you know You're like in one of those like little cages kind of like the little fences they put outside of yeah

02:01:37

Yeah, and so we're all in this like little herd together thing and he come eventually he comes it's like a

02:01:43

Thorough pass where like that, you know the little wind room or whatever outside of a building and he stops to hug one of his people

02:01:50

We're all standing there. My friend and I were right in the front I used to wear this rainbow serpent we told like these huge medicine necklaces from Mexico He comes out and he's staring he's hugging and he's staring right at me while we're all just Going for it making the

02:02:05

Ohm noise at him again and again and again and again You know, he's got those like eyes.

02:02:12

Yeah He is like locked right on me and he walks straight up to me and he goes like this and he's like hello

02:02:21

And and I'm like hello again, you know like playing the whole like reincarnation or whatever soul family card and he was like yeah, you know like he was like, yeah,

02:02:30

I get that and so It proceeded to be this whole like 30 -minute experience and I essentially was like I was right there next to him

02:02:41

To on his arm and I was like opening the like I Mean he was so loving.

02:02:47

He was so sweet he's like bending over meeting the guy in the handicap wheelchair and signing the person's poster and Taking the picture and doing all the things and all

02:02:54

I was just trying to help him and he kept like turning around like thanking Me it was this whole thing and then like at the end

02:03:00

He like gave me a kiss on the cheek. I had a crush on him at the time, you know, super smart guy Anyways, I gave him a crystal and that was that Yeah, and just go to show that there are just a lot of you know

02:03:11

We all cross, you know different paths and different people and things like that and that all of us from the same place that all

02:03:16

Everyone needs the gospel including Russell Brand and Russell by chance you hear this. Yes. We love you, man we're praying for you and Yeah, yeah, we definitely that would we care for you and I will say this

02:03:28

So just just really quickly in summary as we wrap up or just one last thing For anyone who's in the new age from anyone from one of your past friends someone who's a younger

02:03:36

Who's trying to maybe make sense the world who struggled because of kovat they haven't really had a huge This has been their first like a real trial as a young person

02:03:44

You know kind of dealing with the weird brave new world that we're all dealing with or just someone like Russell Brand really anyone

02:03:49

Who's who's into this? Can you? Could use explain now

02:03:54

Given your resume that you've kind of laid out and your experiences of all these things in comparison

02:04:01

To Jesus to really truly Knowing him in the most personal way possible because the best the beauty of the gospel is not

02:04:08

It's great to have your sins forgiven and to be righteous before him But the end goal of the gospel is that we get

02:04:13

God we get relationship with a create the triune creator of the universe if you just could speak to them just real quickly and just Articulate your heart given your experience just I want to give the floor to you as we wrap up here.

02:04:27

Okay? Yeah. Well Purity like he's pure.

02:04:34

He is he is full. He is pure. He is truth So many things in the new age you think you find your way into these things

02:04:44

But there's always that next that next thing that next workshop that next Training that next yoga class that next whatever like that next piece, you know, and he is

02:04:55

You know, like it's a depth that there's no comparison and a love that is fulfilling that is a lot alive that is

02:05:12

Beyond anything and that's the thing that you know, I used to think it'd be boring to be a Christian or something like that and Yeah, I mean you give up certain things as a

02:05:22

Christian to walk with the Lord, but what he gives Nothing in all my 13 years of searching under every spiritual rock under the

02:05:32

Sun practically I'm sure there was a few that I left out, but most of it his love his his

02:05:42

There's no you can't like the whole thing all those 13 years cannot add up To who he is even but for a moment a few moments at his feet and true humbleness can't compare to the infinite realms that I explored the bazillions of dollars

02:06:01

I spent the All of all that whole other world seems like like dust like nothing compared to his truth

02:06:12

Hmm. Yeah Wow Yeah, well, I mean that's that's so encouraging to hear

02:06:17

You know, I think about just says we're off every day you think about like Paul and Philippians 3 where he gives out his whole resume

02:06:22

Mm -hmm. He says I Count this all as nothing a scuba. Yep As just versus knowing

02:06:29

Jesus Christ my lord, so I just want to wrap it up So I just want to just kind of end it on that note.

02:06:34

So So yeah, if you guys have enjoyed this episode, I am thank Teresa Thank you for driving all the way out from California to come on here

02:06:43

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02:06:54

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02:07:01

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