More on Alister Begg and Responding to the Remnant Radio

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With that, we're going to have... Drew is not here this week. He is sick, so we will ask for your prayers for him.

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That's a little bit shorter. Tonight's two topics we're going to try to cover is, one, we covered last week a good part of the show on Alistair Begg.

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Well, there's been more that has come out. Actually, when I talked to Drew about continuing, basically based on the sermon that Alistair Begg did this

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Sunday, well, since then a whole lot more has happened. Every day there's been more.

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We're going to talk about that. I do want to continue in our response to Remnant Radio with their arguments against cessationism.

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They're trying to answer cessationist arguments. We want to get to their argument number two, which is that tongues don't have to be known human languages.

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That will be their claim. We will see if they do a good job making that claim.

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We hope. I have about 10, 12 clips from them, averaging about 45 seconds to a minute.

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Yeah, that's going to be quite a bit. I don't know if we'll get through all of this tonight, but that's the goal.

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Next week, the plan, at least, I'll just give you a heads up. I sent Drew an article that I had seen on The Epoch Times that was showing a possible link between transgenderism and violence.

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The mass shootings that we always hear about being such a bad thing, and guns, those nasty guns do these things.

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One of the things that is common with that that I never want to talk about is, well, mental illness and people that have been on these drugs for many, many years.

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But just saying, it looks like some people are doing some studies and seeing that maybe some of that is also being tied to, well, what's being taught in the schools with transgenderism.

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We may talk about that next week and probably finish up more on responding of Remnant Radio. We're probably going to do a little bit of responses to Remnant Radio each week, just a little bit.

04:39

I will say, for the record, I was going to tell Drew this. It does seem that they've gone silent ever since I announced that we were going to respond to them.

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I don't think that's the reason why, but I downloaded 60 episodes, and we haven't heard from them since.

04:53

Let me bring in someone who is – he's basking there in the darkness. Well, usually the sun of Florida, but Dr.

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Anthony Silvestro is here with us. In the beginning, God is what his shirt says. That's right.

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And so before we get into the topics, we usually do an

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In the News section. So I've got a couple things in the news, and I brought Anthony in so we could see his response as well.

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But I don't know if you folks heard there was a one -day hunger strike in support of Hamas and the

05:27

Palestinians. I'm really kind of in support of that. I just think they shouldn't stop it one day.

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I mean, do like a full month, or go like Moses. Do 40 days. Let's see you do a 40 -day fast for Hamas.

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Fast from water too, just saying. Just really lay it on and do a 40 -day fast, no water, no nothing.

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Let's see you do it. I've never – one day fast is four.

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I mean, Anthony, you and I, I do that like every week. What's the big deal? Yeah, there's really no big deal to it.

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What I think should happen is that whether they fast for 40 days like you suggest, or maybe kind of the way that Texas and Florida shipped up a bunch of the illegal immigrants to New York, how about we just let them have what they want, and let's just ship them to Iran, and let them have their fun.

06:19

And while we're at it, everybody who is a communist in our country, let's just ship them to China or North Korea and let them bask in what they think is the best form of government possible.

06:28

Why are we here in America? That's a really good point. Everyone that's supportive of Hamas and Gaza, we should ship them over and let them enjoy the beauty of Gaza.

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I mean, they got wonderful beaches, or at least they were when Israel kind of was in control, but those resorts are all gone.

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We can start a GoFundMe for that, and I'd be happy to put some money in for that. Yeah. So one of the things

06:56

I wanted to play, and Anthony, this will trigger you. I saw this on Matt Walsh, but this is like two minutes from Matt Walsh.

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I want to play this for everyone to see. Now, folks, we tend to think that those of us who try very hard to work hard, and we don't realize how easy we have it.

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Anthony, you had your own practice as a dentist. You were working like 13 -hour days every day.

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And I don't know that you realize this new generation, they really have it hard.

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You will realize after listening to this person that you just had it easy, and you're not holding up your end of a bargain.

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I'm not sure what that bargain is, but let's just let this person say it in their own words to see how hard they have it in life.

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Let's listen. We need to stop expecting the same damn people who bought a four -bedroom home and a brand -new

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Cadillac convertible off of a $30 ,000 -a -year salary working at Perkins to understand what it's like to be working 40 -plus hours a week with a master's degree and still not being able to afford a 400 -square -foot studio apartment in mom -fucking -Iowa.

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I don't care if you're a boomer, if you're a gen -x, if you're fucking dead in the ground, I don't give a shit. Nobody likes to work 40 -plus hours a week.

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No one likes it. If that were true, we wouldn't have so many of you trying to become billionaires so that you can one day pay people to do that work for you so you don't have to do it.

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We are not crying. We're not getting any... Wait, does it sound like he's not crying? I'm about to.

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Just remember, he says, we're not crying. Remember that line, because I think he's going to contradict himself.

08:48

Well, he or she, I don't know, because the person who originally said it was a girl, but looks like a guy.

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I don't know these days. Because we can't work nine to five.

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Yes, we can. We do it every day. Which, it's worth enough hard into the deal, right?

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We're staying in school, okay? We're going to college, okay? We've been working since we were 15, 16 years old.

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We've built a huge line of credible references, doing everything they all told us to do so that we can what? Still be living at our parents' early 20s?

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Millennials and Gen Z are working more than any other generation ever has. It's a fact. We are more educated than any other generation.

09:27

Also a fact. We are also making considerably and disproportionately much less than any other generation has.

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Also a fact. And that is kind of ****. I know people in their mid -30s who have been working for 20 years.

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That's like 70 % of their waking life. They have been working, and they still cannot afford to purchase their first home.

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And I don't live in New York or LA. I live in Minnesota. Minnesota. That is why some of us are crying.

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That's why some of us are angry. Because this is annoying. We're holding up our end of the deal, and someone on the other side is not holding up their end.

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And it's annoying, okay? If boomers and gen x experienced what it's like to work as much as they did and get nothing in return, they wouldn't be able to sit across from us and go, oh my god,

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I feel you. This is so ****. You know what? Some of you are capable of cultivating empathy, and I appreciate you. But those of you who have nothing to say but **** judgments and calling us entitled, **** you.

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Because you don't get it. Well, I'm really glad that he wasn't judging.

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So we, Anthony, you and I, we just do not understand how hard it is to work 40 -plus hours a week.

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And I agree with that person. I don't know what it's like to work, like, 40 -plus hours a week.

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Because I work, like, about 80 to 90 on average. You work a ton.

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Yeah, I would love to only work 40. Nine to five? Hey, bring it.

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Like, I get it. I don't know what it's like for this person. And he's way smart. I mean, so the millennials are, according to him, the smartest, the most educated?

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Hmm. I would like to see the millennials of today put someone on the moon. In fact, you know, recent studies have shown you, and think about this, folks.

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Just a generation ago, who was it in their 20s and 30s that were just coming up with ingenious technologies, right?

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You have Steve Jobs. You have Bill Gates. You have Elon Musk. Where are those guys today?

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Where are the 20 - and 30 -year -olds that are, like, breaking new barriers with technology and education?

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They don't exist because they're too busy trying to figure out if they're a boy or a girl or on video games or social media.

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So those people don't exist. And he wants us to believe they're the smartest? They work the hardest?

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Now, I may agree with this person. They probably do get paid less, like all of us did when we were that age.

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I mean, yes, I make more now than I did when I was 20 and 30. Yep, that's true.

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But I'm sure that I made less money at his age or her age, whichever, you know, than they're making today, you know?

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You know, most of us had parents who we watched grow up, and they had either an apartment or a small house, and then they worked their way up through life, right?

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For those of us who— —that are in life, you don't get the big house right off the bat.

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You don't get the cushier job with higher pay right off the bat. Like, you actually have to earn something in life.

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And a lot of this generation today, the—to Gen Bs to Gen Zs, seem to think that it should all come at once.

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It's—you know, we call this the entitlement generation, don't we? And on top of that, they've gone to colleges where—

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I mean, look, Andrew, you majored in something that actually would make money one day in your career.

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I majored in something that would actually do something in my career. What we didn't do is get majors in underwater basket weaving or in gender studies, which,

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I mean, a three -year -old has a better idea on gender than most college students today because they look in a mirror.

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You know, I mean, this is—it's insane what we are having to deal with. Now, I will say this. This is the big farce with colleges today.

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You know, when I graduated—I'm going to date myself a little bit. When I graduated from a small liberal arts school in 1990, the average salary of a college graduate was $38 ,000 a year.

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I remember that. And from what I just heard, the average college graduate today, their starting salary is somewhere between $34 ,000 to $35 ,000.

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So in the last 25 years, it has actually gone down, not keeping up with inflation, not anything.

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It's actually gone down. Now, why is that? Well, I think that we have colleges that have dumbed down society.

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We have colleges that have allowed people to do whatever they want to do in terms of college.

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It doesn't actually prepare them for the real world. And I think the worst part of all this is, as you and I have both done on college campuses,

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I find it to be sad and hysterical at the same time that students go to college, and these college professors all tell them that communism is the best way, capitalism is horrific, and yet these same colleges that are teaching this are using capitalism in order to make as much money as they can off these students without any care whatsoever about what they're going to do in their lives.

14:46

It's the height of hypocrisy. Yeah, yeah. You know, Melissa says, these kids are getting useless degrees and wonder why they can't find a job.

14:57

Well, that's the point, you know. She also says, if Gen Z wants to fix it, stop voting for Democrats.

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That's the comment. Yeah. Here's the thing, you know, an interesting thing I thought of today. You ever think about this?

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Both Democrats and Republicans want to live under conservative values.

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It's just that the Democrats don't want you to know that, right? When you look at the way their life is, where do they do it?

15:26

You have Black Lives Matter. Where did they all move to? They move to conservative areas, and they want to live under conservative principles, but then they promote the very opposite.

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And so that promotion only helps those that are in power, right? Those that are the elite.

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They don't have to live under the things they push, and that becomes a thing.

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So I saw that on Matt Walsh. I was like, oh, we got to play that, you know, because I find it just so interesting.

15:57

The other thing I wanted to bring up is there was a court case recently in New York. And if some of you guys remember, during the

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Black Lives Matter riots, there were two New York City attorneys that were caught making, well, basically bombs, you know, pouring alcohol into bottles, putting a cloth in it, and then tossing that at police officers, police cars, buildings.

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And so these were lawyers. Well, they got basically a slap on the wrist.

16:30

It wasn't very much of a sentence because the judge, well, they were asked to understand what they had to go through and try to understand the trials of COVID and the injustice that Black Lives Matter was standing for.

16:49

Really? Well, you know, we saw two years of protests and riots, and when a bunch of people said they wanted an audit of an election on January 6th, well, yeah, those guys are still in prison not having their day in court.

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Those people have been sentenced to 20, 30 years, even those who didn't, 24 years for a person who wasn't even in D .C.,

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right? So it's just amazing. Oh, we got to consider what they were suffering.

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Well, we don't do that with everyone else. So just some things that were in the news for us to have some

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Christian views on how do we think about this. Well, the reality is we expect the world to follow their father.

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And we know who their father is. Jesus said that they're liars because their father is the father of lies.

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And that's why they have to lie to people. And so, let's see, we had a comment

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I saw earlier. Where are they? Fighting against government regulations and inflation to start their own businesses?

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Yeah, they're not fighting. It was one thing with that video that I find so interesting is he says he's not, he, she says not an entitlement mentality.

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And yet it's like, poor me, I have to work more than 40 hours and I'm not making as much as I want.

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And it's someone else's fault, right? It's the boomers fault. Now we talked about like almost as if there was like this contract, right?

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The boomers are telling them they have to stay in school and then work nine to five. And somehow the boomers didn't keep their end of the bargain.

18:35

What bargain? What bargain do we make with Gen Z that we had where they're supposed to, you know, they're supposed to, you know, do what?

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Get paid really well to do nothing? Get a nice house and not have to work for it?

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I mean, just saying, I had to work hard for folks who don't know my background.

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I was homeless for a while. And so, yeah, I worked hard to get the house

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I live in, the cars that I drive, the things that I own. It wasn't handed to me. I worked for it.

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That's what this person doesn't want to have to do. So with that, let's get into talking about Alistair Begg.

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And we got a comment that came up early that I'm going to put up now. But it says, if Begg wasn't, if Begg weren't a

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Calvinist, would the Calvinist be so merciful to him? What if he were a faithful minister of the gospel for as long as Alistair Begg?

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Now, I'm not sure I fully understand the question because the first part. Yeah, the second part.

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The first part, and I'm going to talk about this as I did last time.

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I don't see Calvinists being merciful to him. In fact, I see the

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Calvinists being harder on him. And that might be more one of my critiques. But if it were a faithful minister of the gospel for 40 years as long as Alistair, I don't understand the second part of the question.

20:15

Maybe you can rephrase it. Yeah, I wonder if he means if somebody who's not a Calvinist was as faithful, was a faithful minister of the gospel as Alistair Begg was for 40 years.

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How would the Calvinist treat him? It might be what he's asking. Okay. Yeah. So I've been thinking about this a lot.

20:35

I know we've texted. Julie, my wife texted you a few times. And she's been bouncing a lot of things off of me with this as well and whatnot.

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The first thing I want to say is this. Alistair claims to be not only a

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Calvinist but a high view of the sovereignty of God, right? And yet his whole premise of why a grandmother should go to a theoretical homosexual wedding is to leave a door open for the gospel.

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I'm like, well, if you believe in the sovereignty of God, don't you believe that God will find a way for the gospel to still permeate in that situation to show up at a wedding?

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And I'm calling it very loosely right now. Yeah, yeah. Well, let's lay back up for some folks because our folks who are not on social media, because I know some that asked, what is going on?

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Like, why are we talking about Alistair Begg when the show, because last week it didn't mention

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Alistair in the show title. This week it did. So some people were like, what's up with Alistair?

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And a lot of people were answering those people. So let's start. Back in September, Alistair Begg did an interview.

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He was asked the question he said in that he knew, and there's a couple of key things

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I'm trying to point out with it. And we point out some last week as well. He knew that not everyone was going to agree with the advice he gave.

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So I'm saying that to say this is something he did think through, but he got a letter from a grandmother wanting to go to either a same sex wedding or trans wedding.

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I think if I remember correctly, it was a trans wedding where they were both trans, which I kind of go, okay.

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So that's just like, that's really not a same sex wedding. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and I'm just going to apologize, folks.

22:33

Anthony is, the internet is a little bit like if it's choppy, it's because he's not in a spot with great internet, just so you know.

22:43

Yeah. He is relaxing in the nice weather. They're not freezing up. So Alistair Begg was asked about attending a same sex wedding, transgender wedding.

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This grandmother, he, now what he prefaced was he did acknowledge that the grandmother talked to the grandson and or granddaughter.

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I don't know what's the, which one was the biological. So I'm going to go with grandson because that's how I kind of remember it.

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But I didn't know if that's the, so if, if I get that wrong, it's not me caving on transgenderism.

23:21

It's me being ignorant of the full details there. We have someone who's asking who's

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Alistair Begg. So Alistair Begg is a pastor in Anthony's backyard. Just saying.

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But he's, he's, he's a pastor up in Ohio, Cleveland, Ohio area. Very well known was previously on 1500 radio stations, at least from American family radio.

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1800. 1800. Okay. So, so that's who Alistair is.

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And so the advice he gave this grandmother is, Hey, look, you've already talked to the grandson.

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You've explained that this is a sin, that this is not good. You don't endorse it, but for the sake of grace, for the sake of love, do what, what they won't expect.

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Go to this wedding and even give a gift because they won't expect that.

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That will, that will shock them. Now, following that, there was an interview.

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I did not hear that interview with American family radio, where he did not back away from, from that advice that he gave.

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And so the family, American family radio removed him from 1800 stations.

24:37

And so he then did a sermon. And I'm going to touch with some of the things on the sermon and why we're talking about this again, because there were some things in the sermon.

24:45

And I did go kind of back and forth. There's one thing with this. So first off, let me, let me, for the record, just state, as I stated last week,

24:52

I don't agree with the advice Alistair gave. I was in that exact situation with my cousin where she was wanting to marry another woman and invited me to the wedding.

25:04

And she even said, I know you're probably not going to come, but I want to invite you anyway. And she, so she knew why

25:11

I wasn't going to come. And I said to her, I said, yeah, I won't. I said, you know, and so what

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I asked her, I said this, I said, do you believe in a separation of church and state? Well, yeah.

25:23

Okay. Well, see, marriage is a church issue, not a state issue. The state has taken it over, but it's really a religious ceremony.

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And so I, I'm not going to go to something that's not, that's abhorrent to God and say, well,

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I'm going to go and, you know, and it's not about the celebration. It's, it's not, you know, it's the fact of, again, as I said last week, and we'll get into this week, this watershed issue where the

25:50

LGBT are shoving it in our faces to force us to say, you must celebrate my lifestyle.

25:58

You must celebrate my sin. Not only can you not say it's wrong, you have to celebrate it. And that's why this is becoming a watershed issue.

26:06

We'll get into that in a few minutes, what a watershed issue is and why this is that.

26:12

But what has, one of the things, I mean, look, Alistair Begg for over 40 years, solid ministry.

26:20

He just got done preaching through Romans 1, was very clear against homosexuality.

26:25

I don't know of anything else that I've ever heard negative of Alistair Begg.

26:31

Now, granted, everyone's going to have something and, you know, so it's not that there's nothing, but I haven't heard of any major scandal.

26:39

This happened back in September. It just popped up now where everyone's addressing it. Maybe it just didn't get enough airtime.

26:47

People didn't know about it. That's, you know, that's extremely possible.

26:55

So I don't know why that happened. But there's a couple of things to think about with this. I listened to Alistair's message on Sunday, and I actually kept going back and forth because I listened to it a couple of times.

27:07

And the first time through, one of the things that did get me to think is, you know, it seemed, and I'm still not 100 % sure whether Alistair Begg knew this grandmother.

27:17

Because at one point he's talking as if this is someone like in his congregation. They sent this letter, and he said he waited on it for a while, like a week or something before responding.

27:27

Now, but later in that message, he mentions that a person he's never met before.

27:34

So I'm not sure who's the person he never met before. Was that the grandmother or the grandson? That I wasn't sure.

27:40

But one thing I'm going to caveat this is he did say, and I think there's some people who

27:46

I've been watching a lot of people's responses to this. There's some people who I think twisted what he had said.

27:52

But he said in maybe in another situation, I would give different advice.

27:58

And so I'm taking a step back and trying to be fair and saying, OK, maybe he knows this grandmother.

28:05

Maybe he knows the family. He knows some history there. And there's something he's saying for this family, he would give advice he would never give to anyone else.

28:13

Now, I know people were trying to twist that to say, oh, this shows that he's just having situational ethics or trying to twist things to, you know, be nuanced things.

28:26

I think what he was just saying is, you know, there's not always one piece of advice to give to everybody.

28:31

I mean, there's something that you may give advice to one person different than another because you know the situations better.

28:40

And so, for example, I'll give a for instance, there was someone I knew that struggled with pornography, but wanted to evangelize outside an area where there were topless women.

28:54

Well, you know what? Maybe for some people, you know, sharing the gospel outside of a strip place is not a problem.

29:03

But for someone who currently is sitting there and saying they currently have a problem with pornography, no, you definitely shouldn't be evangelizing outside of there.

29:13

Right? Because there's a temptation you're already struggling with. So a situation can have different advice, just for the record.

29:23

I already said that I don't think it was good advice to give. It's not advice I would give.

29:29

And so the thing, though, is there could be a case where there's things he knows within his church that he's not going to share to the public.

29:40

That he's not, there's no reason he needs to, but there may be something he knows. That is entirely possible.

29:49

Right? I will state that I don't have all the information. Why? Because I don't even know who the grandmother is.

29:55

Right? I mean, I don't know all the players. I would find, I will say,

30:01

I can't think of a reason to say that someone should do this. Go to a trans wedding or same -sex wedding and buy a gift.

30:11

I think there's other ways you can do it. Look, I did it with my cousin. They knew, I explained why I wasn't going to go.

30:17

I said, I'd be happy to get together, take you guys out for dinner, talk. See, there's plenty of other ways

30:22

I can share the gospel than at a wedding. And there's plenty of other ways I can show love and support.

30:28

My cousin and I have a perfectly good relationship today. Because I didn't go to the wedding, she didn't cut me off.

30:37

She didn't say, that's it, I'm not talking to you. In fact, it's what she expected. But the fact that I would, after that,

30:43

I actually worked harder to keep communication lines open. We have a good relationship.

30:49

Even when I would do shows in the past, and I would talk about homosexuality, because I knew she watches the shows.

30:56

She watches what I do. And I would say, hey, next week, I'm going to be talking about homosexuality.

31:02

If you want to offer your opinions, I'm happy to hear it. I would tell her ahead of time, right?

31:08

So that she's not caught off guard. And so, there's a, sort of what you said,

31:14

Anthony, when you believe in God's sovereignty, you believe that, and I think Justin Peters did a, he did two episodes as well.

31:21

He did an episode with Dan Phillips to discuss some of this. Now, I will say,

31:27

Drew's not here, but as Drew and I talked about it, Drew really wanted to focus in with one thing with Alistair's sermon.

31:35

And that was more of a hermeneutical issue. His sermon was a sermon looking for a text.

31:43

And the text didn't fit. It was a horrible job of hermeneutics.

31:50

He basically took the parable of the prodigal sons to try to say that we need to show grace.

31:58

Now, do we need to show grace? Yes. We need to show love to all people. Not a problem.

32:04

Many ways of doing that. But the text that he used, it was very clear at the end that he wanted to make, he wanted to preach on Sunday about all of the social media activities.

32:21

James White made the point that Alistair probably doesn't even watch the social media. He's probably not on it. It's what people are telling him was happening.

32:28

So, he's responding to that. And so, there was a point in the response that it seems

32:34

James White pointed out that he's not answering the real issues, but you don't know if he's actually read the issues or just is responding to what he's hearing from the people who are relaying it back.

32:46

So, I am trying to give as much grace as I can in areas where we can give grace.

32:52

And that was his whole point, right, is grace. Now, one thing I would say is if this is, you know, a lot of people are saying, and I saw on my wall, and I'll talk about where I saw it, but a lot of people are questioning his salvation.

33:12

So, I'm going to say that there's two extremes here. Is what he did wrong?

33:18

Yeah, I don't think it was good advice. Are there people that are, I think there's Christians that have become so critical.

33:26

You know, I think part of it is like, okay, so, Anthony, you and I have talked about this in the past.

33:32

Why is it that like all of a sudden Christians are believing so many conspiracy theories, like flat earth?

33:38

Okay, let me just, we're headed out to the Open Air Theology Conference. I am shocked to find out how many

33:45

Christians are believing in Bigfoot. Bigfoot is an evolutionary thought.

33:51

You want to believe in Bigfoot, just remember it comes out of evolution. But why is that?

33:58

Well, I think a big reason why so many Christians are starting to buy into flat earth and there was no moon landing and all this stuff is because, well, during COVID, everything else that you thought was a conspiracy turned out to be true.

34:09

And so they're starting to go like, well, what else was true? What else is the government lying about? Well, the reality is, if you really want to buy into that stuff, just for the record, notice how much the government actually got away with COVID.

34:23

Yeah, nothing. Because the things that they were trying to cancel us for, for saying, masks don't work, vaccines don't work, all this stuff.

34:32

Yeah, that ends up being a case where they couldn't keep it under wraps because the evidence came out.

34:41

So flat earth, yeah, the government's not keeping it from you. Moon landing, the government's not keeping it.

34:47

Someone would spill the beans. I had someone, Anthony, who is very much, someone

34:52

I know, very much in favor of the vaccines, said to me, I'm not going to judge you, but I can't believe you're not going to get the vaccine.

35:00

Someone who said they didn't want to be around me because I wasn't vaccinated and was nervous.

35:07

And just a few weeks ago, turned to me and said, you know what? You were right the whole time. He's like,

35:13

I should have been listening to you. Right. But there's this, I think that within Christianity, we have swung so critically that there's an extremism on both sides.

35:26

You have Alistair Begg so concerned about grace that he's giving bad advice. And then the flip side where people are so quick to throw him under the bus, to claim he's not saved.

35:37

I mean, I had more than a half dozen people that just quoted Matthew 7, 21 to 23.

35:44

And what are they saying there? The claim is that he's claiming to be a Christian and doing all these works for God, but not a believer.

35:52

And so just based on this advice now, if, is he an Andy Stanley? Is Alistair Begg an

35:59

Andy Stanley? Well, not yet, at least. I mean, I don't think he ever will be, but for the people who are just there, they're comparing him to Andy Stanley.

36:10

You know, when Andy Stanley first made some bad statements, people went, huh. Okay. Mark, mark this person, watch this person.

36:20

So, so when you have squirrel chatter, which is one of the podcasts on the Christian podcast community, who says, and we had other podcasters that said the same thing, that Alistair Begg was just in their mind marked from a, you know, a favorable recommended resource to, you know, listen with consideration, listen with some, you know, with a little bit of warning.

36:45

Okay. In other words, it's not mark and avoid. They're just saying, mark them, you know, watch to see where the trajectory is going.

36:53

Now, if we see, we see a lot more of this, if this continues this behavior, yeah, maybe it gets to the point you mark and avoid.

37:03

And so I think that calling him unsaved is, is a bit too far.

37:09

Now, Anthony, I know you had some things you wanted to, I was going there for a bit, but I will give you a chance to speak up while I read the comments.

37:18

Okay. Well, we're going to wait until you get somewhere where you get better internet, because it just completely froze.

37:25

Okay. Sorry about that. There you are.

37:31

Oh, you're walking down the hallway. No wonder. I'm walking back to my room. My power is about done and the internet is not good out here.

37:39

So I'm hoping it's a little bit better in here. All right. So we'll wait.

37:44

We're going to let you get to your room. So here Melissa says, Michelle Leslie no longer recommends

37:51

Alistair Begg because of his stance on women teaching. She had a sermon on her website.

37:56

Now that, okay. So this is another thing that I did hear with this hoopla. We'll talk about him having a woman pregnant.

38:06

And I think this actually came up. I don't know if it was you or someone else that brought it up last week.

38:13

And supposedly it was, it turned out to be a woman giving her testimony. And so maybe, maybe it was

38:22

D that brought it up. Because D says the story seemed to have changed in his

38:27

Sunday sermon. He said he didn't know the grandmother. And he also said it was a granddaughter instead of a grandson.

38:35

Odd. Yeah. That's the whole thing. I wasn't sure things that, and that's why

38:40

I was saying, if it's transgender, that may be why it's grandson, granddaughter. And I didn't know who he, he didn't, it wasn't clear who he didn't know whether it was the grandmother or the grandson.

38:52

That, that was the thing with that. We have a comment saying attending an unholy ceremony is an abomination.

39:02

When it is, when is it ever good unless you are to contest the marriage?

39:12

I don't know where you are, Anthony, but we're getting a lot of feedback sounds good. I can't find a good spot.

39:23

I'll figure this out. I guess I should have done this before. But this should, this should, you should be used to this,

39:29

Andrew. I always have technical difficulties. Yeah. Well, yeah. This is hard for the course. Yeah.

39:34

But, but the, the internet's better now. So, so at least now we can hear, hear your mind, what your thoughts are.

39:40

Cause I mean, you, you have a stronger view than me. I believe on this. So, so go for it.

39:47

You know, okay. So, you know, let me start here, Andrew, you and I, um, in striving for,

39:54

I think the first ministry that I know of that actually together a systematic theology of social justice back in 2018, 2019, um, we kind of had our pulse on the situation for, for a little while on the homosexual piece and whatnot.

40:12

Um, and why I bring this up, because we've talked about this numerous times on different shows in the past, people have asked you,

40:19

I know people have asked me a lot as I've taught this seminar. Um, what do you think in the social justice movement is going to really harm the church?

40:26

And, and I would say it's not critical race theory. It's not intersectionality. It's going to be the

40:32

LGBTQ piece. That's the seem to capitulate on. And that's also the one the government wants to enact hate speech laws for, and it can really harm

40:42

Christianity. You're going to see with a push comes in, when push comes to shove, what people actually believe or if they want to just protect their own interests in regards to this issue.

40:54

So I feel like this is a, this is a hill to die on when we talk about the homosexuality and transgenderism piece.

41:02

And that's why I have such a strong feeling about what Alistair Begg did. The bottom line is this, when we talk about social justice, and I talk about the idea of racism, a

41:12

Christian should never use the term racism. Why is that? Because according to the Bible, there's one blood, one race, the human race.

41:20

And so by using a term like racism, we're using a term that is outside of the

41:26

Christian scope. It's outside of the Bible. It's a secular term we're trying to import in. Same thing goes for the idea of marriage.

41:34

If we are, if we are looking at anything like a gay marriage, homosexual marriage, transgender marriage, kind of like what you said earlier, we're taking, we're taking what is a

41:45

God instituted marriage and we're trying to change it for a sect, whatever they want to believe this union is or partnership is or whatever.

41:56

And so I have a, I have a huge problem with it because the idea of giving somebody advice to go to a transgender wedding or a homosexual wedding is acknowledging in some way that there is some type of union here when there's not.

42:12

So I think that's my main issue with all this. Now there's a lot of other things for us to talk about with all the things that you've covered already to go into, into more depth.

42:22

But I just think from a fundamental issue, this isn't, and I guess

42:29

I understand Alistair Begg. He gave sermons on this in the last year in Romans one, he has spoken against homosexuality in the past.

42:38

But I'm not sure that it absolves him of, of this advice about a wedding. Yeah. So, and let me just get to some comments because I want to respond to that.

42:48

First off, just this one. Someone said nine 11 was an inside job. So was the Kennedy assassination? No. And yes,

42:56

I'm not going to say why I'm just going to say no, nine 11 was not an inside job, but yes,

43:02

I do believe there's good evidence. The Kennedy assassination was an inside job. By the way, there's a podcast that if you, if you guys are interested,

43:11

I'm going to look this one up because this is, this was really good. I think it's called the killing of JFK.

43:17

I'm going to just check that. But yeah, who, who killed JFK? Go, go check that podcast out.

43:23

They go through things and, and provide, I'm not basing my conclusion off of that podcast. I already had that, that long ago.

43:31

But Oh, Oh, look at this. Someone is, look, someone has said, D says, wow, look at that.

43:38

Those beautiful teeth. It's, it's only because I have a really good dentist in Ohio. Oh, wait, I'm sorry. Melissa clarified

43:44

D I noticed that too. Anthony's teeth are glowing in the dark. I mean, if you're going to be a dentist, you better have teeth that, you know, glow in the dark.

43:55

This is, this is the trick. I tell everybody, you can either whiten your teeth or go out in the sun and get a tan.

44:01

Either way, your teeth will look whiter. Yeah. All right. So just some clarifying points is that Melissa had said,

44:09

I brought, I brought it up last week, Andrew, about the woman preaching. I heard conflicted information, but Michelle confirmed that it did happen.

44:16

And the woman that Alistair allowed to Pope, it was teaching.

44:21

So just so we can, we can clarify that now, you know,

44:27

D said, I wouldn't question big salvation, but perhaps his cognitive abilities are diminishing.

44:34

And that is something that I would bring out because it, that, that is an issue of, and we've seen this throughout history, guys who, when they get older, start,

44:45

I mean, this is why I knew one guy, he would never read commentaries from anyone who wasn't dead. And his theory was that way.

44:52

I know they don't, that I don't quote someone that's going to go astray later, you know? So, so, you know, the, the, the thing though is, is that when we look at this situation, and I'm going to say something, don't jump right away.

45:09

Cause I want you to hear everything I'm going to say is, is the issue of a same sex wedding, such a bad thing to attend in some senses, we might say no, but culturally

45:23

I'm going to say it is, why is it? And I said this last week, but it bears repeating.

45:29

This is what we refer to as a watershed issue. Okay. Anthony, we've talked about this plenty of times, even here on the show.

45:37

Why is it that the homosexuality and the LGBT was going to be the issue that's going to hurt the church?

45:43

Well, I go back to the 1980s. Well, actually, yeah, like late eighties when

45:50

I was in college, you were probably still in elementary school. Sorry about that. But, but I've told this story, but it bears repeating.

45:58

I remember I, I, my parents lived in Florida. I was in a school in New Jersey. I stayed on campus all year round.

46:05

The only people that stayed on campus were basically the international students and the RAs, the resident assistants, because someone had to be there during the summers, but during Christmas break and all that, well, one

46:17

Christmas break, my resident assistant came in drunk. He told me he wanted to show me something in the janitors, uh, you know, little cubby there.

46:27

He unlocked the door and shows me a gay magazine. He wanted me to read an article that was in there.

46:32

Now to this day, I, I personally believe he was drunk. I believe we, we never saw him with a girl.

46:39

I, I believe he was a practicing homosexual and wanted to see my reaction being the only other male that spoke

46:47

English on campus in the dorm. Uh, and I think he was trying to see whether he could get a date.

46:54

Yeah, that wasn't going to happen, but it was interesting. The article he asked me to read because the article laid out a game plan, how

47:00

LGBT or back then was just the homosexuality could be mainstreamed. And they laid out a plan.

47:06

One of the first things they said is we gotta be victims. We can never stop being victims because the moment we stop being victims, we lose our rights.

47:13

And so we have to be victims, but we, we, we don't actually want to be victimized. So we have to be careful on who we're going to claim is victimizing us.

47:21

It had to be a group that won't actually do anything. So they said, we, we need to be say that we're being targeted by Christians because the

47:30

Christians will not actually take us to court. They're, they're good. They're going to try to love us and be kind to us.

47:37

And that'll that, the more that they do that, eventually there'll be the ones to push it. So they, they laid out a plan that we need to be victims, use that to get into schools, to get into schools, to teach a whole generation of people that homosexuality is normal, that they're victims.

47:53

We got to, you know, no different than blacks being enslaved. We need to, you know, give them special rights.

47:59

And then to, then their final thing was to push it in churches. And they actually said in the article that, that in the end, the church will push their agenda, but they can never stop letting the church be the victimizers, even when they promote homosexuality because they have to always be the victims.

48:17

And that's what you're seeing go on now. Yeah, this, go ahead.

48:24

Yeah. I was going to add to that. I have a book and I, you know, I talked about this Andrew in the past, but there's a book by Greg Bonson.

48:30

Now, please. Nobody learned from him on his end times theology. Although now he's corrected on that, but he, he was in his, in 1978 here, he wrote a book called homosexuality.

48:41

It's a yellow cover with a red stripe across the same homosexuality. And I read this book back in 2020 and he was outlining exactly what you're talking about, what you found out in the eighties, he knew what was going on.

48:54

It was going on for at least a decade before that. And this agenda has been laid out. And so there's old homosexual magazines and books that they had in print.

49:02

They were talking about how they're going to engage culture, how they're going to take over culture. And their final, their final battle to win was going to be able to get into the churches and get the churches to celebrate homosexuality.

49:17

So what we're seeing today, he called out back in 1978 as part of that agenda.

49:23

So I kind of wanted to add that piece to it because they've, they've, this is well thought out and planned for a really long time.

49:30

Yeah. And the, the reality is, I mean, you see guys like Michael Vines, I'm not going to call him pastor

49:37

Vines, no matter if he wants that or not, but who, who claims to be a practicing homosexual and a pastor, you know, and, and he looked at the, the message from Alistair Begg and was praising it.

49:50

Now that right there is a reason of concern, right? When you have someone who is openly attacking biblical

50:00

Christianity and, and they see what Alistair says as a good thing, that should be, you know, when, when a devil was saying it's good, then it probably is not, you know, too, too righteous, but so, and, and they're coming out and defending.

50:19

Now, if Alistair continues down this line, then yeah, we should, you know, we, we definitely should mark and avoid.

50:28

So the, the thing though is, is that as we look at this, you know,

50:33

I put out a question that, you know, it's, it's kind of interesting how certain things really strike.

50:40

And I, and I want to, I'm going to get back to the watershed issue in a moment where I was going, but I asked the question because so many people were basically looking to cancel

50:48

Alistair Begg. And that is what it went. Look, it is cancellation when he's people were pushing to get him removed from American family radio removed from Shepard's conference, which

50:59

I guess, and I'm still not sure. I'm hearing different things, whether he pulled out of Shepard's conference or Shepard's conference removed him.

51:07

I'm not sure which, but either way, there were a lot of people pushing for that and, and demanding that.

51:14

I'm not going to get into whether Shepard's conference should, should, or should not have removed him. I actually was surprised.

51:20

I was actually, to be honest, I was kind of looking forward to the Q and a, to see, to see what, you know, and, and Hey, if he pulled out that, that could be why, you know, there's the, the, the memories of what happened with, you know,

51:33

Al Muller, you know, still, still is there for folks. And, and that really helped wake up a lot of people to what was going on with social justice at that, at that Shepard's conference.

51:44

So I, I do believe that there is, there's some things that, where I just,

51:53

I look at it and say, let's not be too quick to say, Hey, we have to remove them from everything. Okay.

52:01

However, why I think, and so I'm trying to read to, I want to be as balanced as I can be.

52:07

I want to show grace where I can show grace. I think though, there is a difference that people are seeing with this issue.

52:14

So why is it, you know, Anthony, you and I were talking about the fact that there, there's so many people that are just defending

52:20

Alistair Begg. Look, it's, it's not because, you know, they're like the one comment there because he's a

52:26

Calvinist and they're Calvinists. I don't think they're defending them because he's a Calvinist. I don't think there's people that are defending them because, you know,

52:34

Oh, they, they think that the advice was good. I hear a lot of people saying the advice was bad, but they, they either, they like his teaching.

52:41

They learned a lot from him, but that doesn't mean just because we learned something from someone doesn't mean they're always right.

52:47

We got to be able to say when someone's wrong, but when someone says, you know, one thing wrong or, or believe someone, it doesn't mean we just throw them on 40 years of ministry under the bus either and start saying, well, they're not saved.

52:59

We can't do it, have any, like there's people that were, you know, as I saw one photo of all their books from Alistair Begg in the garbage can.

53:07

Right. I'm not going to go that far at least yet. You know, if he, if he continues down the road, then yeah,

53:14

I would, but why is it the reaction we're seeing? Look, folks, we laid out already as Anthony and I talked about the, the agenda behind this.

53:26

And the agenda is to, to, to first try to show the world that homosexuality, well, it's just a curse that we have to bear.

53:35

I can't control it. I was born this way. People say, well, you know what? The, the, the serial murderer says he's born that way.

53:42

The rapist says he's born that way. That doesn't mean we accept it. No, we, we put them away for, for their crimes.

53:49

We don't go, Oh, Oh, you're born that way. Let's let you continue doing it. And, and when people say, well, it doesn't hurt anyone really, because these people,

53:57

I mean, it's a grooming thing. That's how they reproduce their evangelism is through grooming and sexual abuse.

54:06

And, you know, usually at a young age, very, very common. Why do you think they want to do their, their drag queen things to children?

54:16

Why are they fighting for the children to see it? Why are they not just saying, well, we just want to do it for adults because they want to groom in a next generation.

54:24

They, they need to indoctrinate them. They need to get those next generation to, to vindicate what they're doing.

54:31

And so they go from saying, well, it's just a cross, a, a, a curse that we were born with too.

54:39

It's just a cross. We have to bear. We, we really don't want this. We wish we could be different, but you know, it is what it is.

54:45

And we just, it's just something we have to live with to where now they see it as a crown that you must celebrate.

54:51

And this is why, when we talked last week about watershed issues, why is the reactions that we're having?

54:57

Well, and I said this last week, but there's new folks joining in. And so I, you know,

55:03

I'm, I recommend you go listen to last week's, but I'm saying it to be really clear about this.

55:10

There are times in history. We see it in scripture, early church, very early church.

55:15

One of the major issues was circumcision. There was a major issue when the church was still of a

55:21

Jewish background, but you know, what happened is after the, the church started to change more, a major issue, one that caused people to question people's salvation was, will you get baptized?

55:35

Remember you get someone that gets baptized. They're turning away from either their Jewish culture or their

55:42

Roman culture, but either way you live in a village. Most people in that day, never were further than one mile from their home and they knew everyone in town.

55:53

Everyone knew them. So when you publicly went to the, to a, either a

55:59

Mikva, which is, would be a, a, basically a bath for, for ceremonial washing or to go to a water and you get baptized.

56:08

It is a public announcement and people got cut off.

56:13

Families cut off jobs, cut off. People wouldn't talk to you. If you were Jewish, they'd have, they'd bury empty coffins and you were dead to them.

56:21

These things happened. And so making a public testimony like that was a major deal.

56:28

So someone who wasn't willing to be baptized, people would question their salvation.

56:35

Okay. That is why in the Bible baptism is almost seen as being tied with salvation because at that time, if you weren't willing to get baptized, people questioned your salvation.

56:49

That still goes on today, by the way, in Muslim countries, in Muslim countries, they don't, a lot of the

56:55

Muslim countries don't have secret baptisms. They do it in the public because it is a stand of saying,

57:01

I am a Christian knowing that now having been of Muslim, I can be killed.

57:08

Right. That's something if someone's not willing to do, they question the salvation. Let's go further in history.

57:14

A few hundred years, the Romans were coming into churches or to people's homes that from Christians and demanding that you give up your

57:22

Bible, you give up your Bible or you go to jail. So what some people did was they said they, they'd give up part of the

57:29

Bible or they, they'd give up a Bible and they had another, or they just give up their Bible and say, here, take it because the, and some at the time made the argument.

57:39

Well, what, what'll happen anyway, if we don't give up the

57:44

Bible, we're going to go to jail and they're just going to go through my house and take my Bible. I might as well give up the Bible and I can still serve

57:50

God. They made it, you know, Hey, it sounds spiritual and, and others who didn't give up the

57:56

Bible went to prison. And when Constantine declares all of Rome, Christian, all of a sudden people are being released from prison for give, not giving up their

58:05

Bible. And what happened? They saw these people that they called compromisers, they compromised and they questioned their salvation.

58:13

When these people that went to prison, got out, they did not want to let these compromisers in the church because they saw that at that compromise as a watershed issue.

58:26

Okay. I've said all that to say this, the reason this issue is the issue it is, I believe today is because the

58:33

LGBT have been forcing it on Christians. In such a way that this is now a watershed issue for Christianity today in America.

58:43

It's not an issue in Muslim countries and communist countries. I'll let you know that because they don't allow this stuff.

58:50

Okay. But that's why it's crazy that I see people looking to Putin, maybe before Trump, they look to Putin because he would say, he'd be like, no, we're not doing that.

59:02

It's illegal. You go to jail or you get killed for these things. Right. And people are like, they're a leader. And it was in the vacuum of strong leadership that we ended up with a guy like Donald Trump.

59:15

Right. And so the thing is, is that this is a watershed issue for, for many, because even the slightest bit of a crack becomes an issue where everyone's just like, no, throw it, throw the person completely out.

59:31

Everything he's done is tainted. I want to be balanced and say, look, I wouldn't give that advice.

59:37

I don't think it was good advice. I think he should say, Hey, after thinking it through, it was bad advice.

59:44

But I also don't say, throw him out, throw everything out, toss him. He's no good. Everything he did is tainted.

59:51

Now, if he goes, like I said earlier, he continues down the path. Okay. Then this was just the first of a path, but I don't see him doing that.

01:00:00

I see him being strong against homosexuality. He just, you know, I believe he was in Romans one after he did that interview.

01:00:07

I could be wrong about that. I don't, I don't remember the timing. And so I'm saying that to say, we all have to be careful with this.

01:00:18

Could it be he's getting older? It could be that there's a lot of different things. Is it that he knows the family or details of that, of the grandmother, that he gave that advice that he says he wouldn't give to someone else?

01:00:28

I don't know. I want to show grace, but I do also recognize why.

01:00:36

It is such a strong issue for people because this is a watershed issue. This is something that is becoming to a point where it's, it starts with women preaching and ends up being that accepting of homosexuality.

01:00:49

That that's kind of where it goes. So, so as Melissa was saying, where, okay, there is a case where he allowed a woman to preach.

01:00:56

Maybe that was the first thing. And this is now the road starting to go. Anthony, you want to say something? I say,

01:01:01

I think it starts when we don't take Genesis, right. And then women preachers and then homosexuality.

01:01:10

Gee, what am I surprised that you went to Genesis? Might be a bias here. Yeah, I, I, I will say this to me and Melissa's habs.

01:01:20

I mean, there's been a lot of great comments on the side. I can't pull them up here. I'm going to let you talk so I can grab them to pull them up.

01:01:28

I'll do that. So she wrote one LGBTQ will inevitably latch onto statements like Alistair's and use them against us.

01:01:35

Like hate speech. That's it. That's exactly the issue. Why we have to be so careful with our words as Christians.

01:01:42

And, you know, I don't, a lot of times that I've preached in the last couple of years, especially on apologetics and evangelism,

01:01:49

I keep getting, I keep trying to teach people the basics, which is thus sayeth the

01:01:54

Lord. We don't need to nuance passages. We don't need to kill it with a, with a, with a thousand exclaimer or what do you call exclaimers?

01:02:04

We just have to say, this is what God says. Let's just be clear about God's word and, and not have to vary from it whatsoever.

01:02:14

Because when we do people will latch onto those things. It is, it is to me, unbelievably silly that Alistair could have given this advice.

01:02:24

Now, granted, he probably never intended to get out in the public sphere. And then taken since September for anybody to find out about this.

01:02:34

I find that fascinating in today's day and age, by the way, for that to occur. But, but, but is there really any scenario?

01:02:43

I mean, I know you just said that, Andrew, I can't think of any scenario where it's okay to attend one of these ceremonies.

01:02:51

I don't, I don't get it at all. I don't understand the nuance to it. I don't understand any of it.

01:02:57

Homosexuality is sin, period. We don't say whatsoever. And we have to stand against it the same way.

01:03:04

I think Christ would have, um, if he was faced with the exact same situation.

01:03:10

And when Alistair in his, when in his, what do you, I call it an isogenical sermon, rather than exegetical.

01:03:18

Yeah. Well, well, here's, here's a comment with that. Uh, the

01:03:23

African sheep says big weaponized, the prodigal son parable to justify his terrible advice.

01:03:30

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, as far as I remember, the prodigal son, it's that the prodigal son recognized his sin, came back and it seemed to be in a repentant heart, came back to his father.

01:03:47

This is not his father going out and watching his, his son doing whatever he was doing.

01:03:53

That was the sins as he was squandering, the entire wealth he was given. I mean,

01:03:59

Alistair knows better. That's the problem. That's the problem I have with it. Alistair has been proven to be a good expositor for 40 years or however long his ministry has been.

01:04:10

How did he mess up these passages so bad on Sunday, except for that he is trying to, uh, not repent for what he did, for what he said, and he's making excuses for it.

01:04:26

and to, to think about how his congregation sat there and clapped at one point, laughed about what he had said.

01:04:35

I find the whole thing really deplorable. And it makes me wonder now, what kind of teaching has his, has those congregation got over the years?

01:04:43

Are they just there because he is a celebrity type pastor? And they don't know how to, how to understand

01:04:51

God's word properly. What about his elders? He said, some of them didn't just, some of them disagree with him.

01:04:58

Well, how was it that Alistair could even stand up there on Sunday and give the type of sermon he did when some elders, according to his own words, were against his advice.

01:05:10

I just, I find this whole thing really troubling and puzzling. Well, you did hit on something and there were some comments

01:05:18

I saw early about, about the whole thing of celebrity pastors. And this, this is why there shouldn't be.

01:05:24

I mean, like, you know, we lift men up. Okay. You get some guys that preach really well, granted.

01:05:34

And the thing though is, is that, you know, there's people who just want to defend.

01:05:42

And I get that. They see someone that they learned a lot from and they feel he's being attacked.

01:05:51

I mean, part of this, look, folks, we see the left. And when, when they see something they don't like, what do they do?

01:05:58

They just, okay, everyone's, you gotta, you gotta avoid this. You get, this person's gotta be shut down because they're saying something we don't like.

01:06:04

Well, we gotta be careful not to be like the left. Right. And just have a knee jerk reaction and go, okay, we, you know,

01:06:12

I, I'm, I'm not saying he, that, and, and I guess I'm seeing the comments that about Shepard's conference, that it must, the

01:06:19

Phil Johnson, I guess said it was mutual, whether, you know, he had a, he had a conversation with MacArthur and they both decided to pull out.

01:06:28

Anthony, you and I know how those things kind of go. You know, it's, it's mutual, but it really wasn't mutual. The question is which side was the one that, you know, pulled out and they say it's mutual.

01:06:37

You know, I don't know. But we, we, we won't know that background. Um, I had posted a thing that, that is kind of frustrating because people weren't answering the question.

01:06:48

I actually asked, which is that in, in everyone's rush to try to get Alistair Begg canceled.

01:06:53

One, you know, he, he's got to be removed from every conference. You know, like everyone wants them removed, like Shepard's conference must remove him.

01:07:00

And the question, and we'll never know the answer. Now. My, my question was if Shepard's conference doesn't remove him, then the question

01:07:09

I have is, you know, would we, would we cancel John MacArthur? Will we, would we then say that he's wrong now?

01:07:14

We'll never get to know. I get it. But the thing is that how far do you go?

01:07:22

You know, there's a lot of comments in the chat and I really agree with this. You know, it was more concerning.

01:07:28

It wasn't that Alistair Begg was invited to Shepard's conference. It was that John Piper was,

01:07:35

I mean, I there's more issues I have with John Piper, right now.

01:07:41

So what I'm going to go back to this, what made the difference? Why is not there an outcry to remove

01:07:47

John Piper? And for the one guy who keeps saying it's about Calvinism, it's not about Calvinism. It's about the fact that this is a watershed issue.

01:07:56

That's what it comes down to. Now, now I think you brought up a good point. Someone is saying this you're, you're, you're spot on Anthony.

01:08:03

Maybe the whole church staff needs to look at this. This is something I think that part of this does need to be resolved within his church.

01:08:11

If there's elders that didn't agree, I hope that they're having open and honest dialogue about that.

01:08:19

Okay, because this is something that ultimately this is something that should be resolved within the local church.

01:08:28

Okay, that's one thing, you know, we, we, I think what we got to do is get away from this.

01:08:36

You know, like I say, celebrity pastor mentality. Well, we also get in this thing of thinking like the internet is the church and we could practice church discipline.

01:08:45

You know, the internet's not the church. The, the church is the church.

01:08:52

And so I think that first and foremost, this should be dealt with within Parkside church, which is the church he's at.

01:08:59

There's other pastors there. I think that's where this, this ultimately should be dealt with.

01:09:06

And, and, you know, we'll see what's going to happen, whether there's either pastors that leave or pastors have talked to them.

01:09:13

You know, I would, I would like to see what happens there. let me see.

01:09:21

Melissa had said, how should we address those who say that passing out gospel tracks at a gay pride festival is no different than what

01:09:31

Alistair suggested. Okay. So I think there's a big difference here. The difference is, is when you go to a gay pride parade to pass out tracks, and if anyone hasn't done that, let me, let me be clear.

01:09:44

Anthony and I, we've both done that. There is no question in the mind of the people attending the gay pride parade, which side you're on.

01:09:55

The, some of the most hateful, angry, vile people

01:10:01

I've ever evangelized that, you know, or evangelized to were at gay pride parades.

01:10:07

Now, Anthony, you know, you've, you've seen me go, I don't bring up the homosexual issue. In fact,

01:10:12

I purposely avoid it when I'm there because I don't need to say it's a sin because their own words reveal, they know it's a sin because I'll just sit there.

01:10:21

I purposely avoid it. So when they keep bringing it up, I go, why do you keep bringing it up? And they'll go, cause you say it's a sin.

01:10:28

And I can, it allows me to go, no, I didn't say it's a sin. It's that, you know, it's a sin, right?

01:10:34

So by not bringing it up, it does allow me to do that, but I'm not going to escape the escape around the issue.

01:10:40

I could bring up all the other sins they do, but you know what? They can't let this one thing go. They only want to talk about one thing.

01:10:49

And so I know that's going to be the case. And so I know that's going to come up. And because of that, it is very different because first off, when

01:10:58

I'm at a gay pride parade, it is not to celebrate in the parade. Okay.

01:11:03

I'm not late. Like Dee says here, when it comes to the marriage, aren't attendees at a marriage ceremony, witnesses to confirm the marriage.

01:11:11

So we can't confirm that at a gay pride parade. I'm not confirming them. Okay. I'm up there saying the behavior is sinful.

01:11:22

They know it's sinful. And trying to bring them to a knowledge of Christ. So I am not sure what this person, and I don't know how to pronounce his name.

01:11:34

So that's why I'm not, but he's saying thing. It ain't about Calvinism. Doesn't make it not about Calvinism.

01:11:40

There's nothing in here that makes it about Calvinism. Homosexuality is not a Calvinism issue.

01:11:46

I'm just saying. Okay. Okay. Okay. So I'm looking at the time.

01:11:53

I see we got people backstage. So I'm just going to say, we're not going to address the remnant right here.

01:11:59

All right. There's more than that with comments and all that.

01:12:04

We have to say, and I want to bring, I see Cole backstage. Joe was backstage and dropped out, but if he comes back in, we got to, we'll bring them in.

01:12:13

But going to a gay pride parade. First off, typically, at least for me,

01:12:21

I don't know about you, Anthony. I don't go in the parade. Okay. I usually stand outside where the parade is.

01:12:29

And when they're coming out, I evangelize. And I'll give you two reasons why I don't go in the parade. Okay.

01:12:35

I don't go in the parade one, because that is one of the most vilest places that I've seen.

01:12:43

And when you're in there, just from what I see from the outside, it is a complete and utter mockery of my

01:12:51

Lord and Savior. And I can't stand seeing it. So I, and that's one of the reasons

01:12:59

I don't like going to gay pride parades. But the second reason is because if I go inside and someone sees me and knows me from the

01:13:10

YouTube channel and that's Andrew Rappaport, I don't want them thinking that I'm there part of the parade, even if they know that I'm there out to evangelize, because that's what

01:13:21

I do. I don't want to seem like I'm in the parade. So I've never actually been inside of a gay pride parade, unless it was by accident.

01:13:31

And I didn't know, but, you know, just walking through a city, but I'm usually on the outside, sharing the gospel openly and publicly.

01:13:41

Okay. And so Melissa is saying that I brought that question up because so many people were trying to justify

01:13:49

Alistair's actions. I do agree with you, Andrew. Yeah. The thing is, it's hard to justify.

01:13:54

Look, I've heard the justifications. Well, what about a unsafe person with a safe person? Can you attend those weddings?

01:14:02

You know, can you, you know, go to a, you know, a wedding that's in a church of two people that aren't believers, but it's held in a church, you know, that's the, the issue is there.

01:14:15

The people who are getting married who are not saved are not trying to shove marriage in the face of Christians.

01:14:24

Okay. That's, that's a big difference. So let me bring

01:14:31

Colin. He's making some comments. So welcome back. Can you hear me?

01:14:36

Okay. We hear you. Wonderful. You're much better than Anthony with, you know, with his technology, but you, you know, he's traveling.

01:14:42

He didn't bring his good mic. Good night, buddy. The, the,

01:14:49

I was, I was catching up on the, this Alistair Begg thing here. Cause I listened to him on the radio.

01:14:55

A lot of times on my lunch break is when his show would be on. And I've heard some pretty good stuff out of him so far.

01:15:00

But when I looked into what his full advice was, I don't know if you've covered it was not only to go, but to actually give gifts and his, and his reasoning behind was,

01:15:12

I'm not endorsing it. It was, so that way they didn't have a reason to think that, you know, he, that this grandmother was, you know, this horrible, awful

01:15:22

Christian person. I disagree with the gift portion, but a lot of these marriage ceremonies have a portion of the, the liturgy or the, the whole ceremony is to, you know, if there's anybody who objects speak now, you know, keep your peace,

01:15:41

I would go up to that point if, you know, but you, like you're saying about the, the, the pride wedding or the pride parades and whatnot, you're going to put yourself on display and you're going to get yourself in a position with that.

01:15:52

So. I'm thinking they probably won't have that in a same sex marriage. You'd be surprised.

01:15:59

People sometimes will cookie cutter things. Yeah. Well, okay. And let me qualify for folks who, who may be asking, why do

01:16:05

I keep calling them same sex weddings and not homosexual weddings? Homosexuals have been getting married for centuries.

01:16:12

People who practice homosexuality get married to people of the opposite sex all the time. And we just don't know they practice homosexuality.

01:16:19

The issue is same sex marriage where they want to redefine marriage. That, that becomes the issue.

01:16:25

You're talking about like a, a man and woman get married, but one of them has a side gig. Let me just,

01:16:32

Hey, Anthony, just, can you, can you give us a, let's bring up, can you give us a big smile? Yeah.

01:16:38

That's just for Melissa who says we need to hear Anthony just so we can admire his teeth. There you go.

01:16:43

So that was just for you, Melissa. So let, let, let me do this.

01:16:49

Let me, before we continue with it, because I do got to give a word from our sponsor.

01:16:56

So let me fall asleep. Let me get in a position. Well, if you want, do I have that picture? So hold on, let's see.

01:17:03

I'll bet he does. It's gotta be there somewhere. Oh yeah. Here we go. You, you, you think

01:17:09

I got, they got me good one night. I fell asleep on here backstage and they screenshotted me.

01:17:16

Yeah. I mean, you got to admit you really fell asleep. I mean, so it was

01:17:23

Anthony time and it was snoozing time for me. I mean, this, this was the, the epitome of the, you know, if you need a, my pillow use promo code

01:17:33

SFE. I also needed a haircut at the time too. He was really tired.

01:17:40

It was a long show, but if you want to get a really good sleep, like Cole there, then what you want to do is go to my pillow .com

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and use the promo code SFE so that they, they know that they, that we sent you, they do.

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They do have a discount right now on their towels. Um, a really good discount. So if you want to get a great set of towels, uh,

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I think you get six towels for 30 bucks. Super, super absorbent. So just go to my pillow .com

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use promo code SFE. And, I, I, I, I love their towels. I hear, okay,

01:18:11

Anthony, here's what I did. I gave my daughter a gift of my pillow towels for Christmas.

01:18:16

What do you think I get when I go to her house and stay over? I get to have my pillow towels that way.

01:18:23

wow, that's a good, it's a great way to get towels when you're traveling to your, to your daughter's house, which means you had to buy enough for her so that she had some left over for the guests.

01:18:35

Right. Well, I don't know. I think she actually, when we come to town, she gives us those towels knowing that we bought them.

01:18:42

But yeah, my, my pillow .com. If you want to check that out. Also, we're on let you guys know, uh, coming up this

01:18:48

February is the open air theology conference. A great conference. It's looking like just a great lineup of speakers.

01:18:54

Uh, it is, it's a great conference just for the discussions that happen. Uh, the conference wraps up at five o 'clock every night.

01:19:02

So everyone can go to dinner, have theological discussions afterwards, uh, people have differing views yet.

01:19:09

We can, we can disagree in a very loving way. Uh, and that's really what we should do.

01:19:15

We show grace to one another, stand strongly on our, on our opinions and our, and our convictions.

01:19:22

And yet discuss it. the, so a lot of the guys that attend that, you know, will it be live streamed?

01:19:29

Will you see it later on YouTube? Yeah, you can watch those, but that conference, the way that Jeffrey Rice arranged it is really about the, the fellowship.

01:19:38

And so go check out to search for open air theology conference and you'll, you'll, uh, find out.

01:19:46

So I don't know who Facebook user is, but, um, and Facebook user, just go to apologize, live .com

01:19:52

and get the link to, to open up. He says, is Alistair begging the lineup for your conference, Andrew?

01:19:57

Well, it's not my conference. Uh, and I would, if it was my conference, I would say, no, it's

01:20:04

Jeffrey Rice's conference. So the answer would be, I guess, hell no. Cause if you know,

01:20:11

Jeffrey, that, yeah, that ain't going to be happening. So, so Andrew, would you have removed

01:20:16

Alice? Let's say you had a conference. Seriously. You had your stride and fraternity fire conferences.

01:20:22

Alistair was one of your two speakers as you used to do in the past. Would you remove him based on everything that transpired?

01:20:29

Yeah. Well, I, I, I can't answer it automatically. Cause I mean, what

01:20:36

I would do, and it sounds like what MacArthur might've done is I would have to have a, a very lengthy conversation with him.

01:20:43

Now we have two groups that did that right. American family radio. And John MacArthur, the result of both of them was a removal.

01:20:53

I wasn't in there. Those talks. I would hope those talks were lengthy and detailed and not holding back, but that's the type of conversation

01:21:03

I would have to have with him. so I could see, I could just being honest,

01:21:10

I could see myself possibly going either way. Um, but I would say this if I had him, you know, if it was on,

01:21:18

I could guarantee that the issue would come up in the Q and a yeah. Right. And, and that's what

01:21:24

I was expecting would happen at Shepard's conference. I figured the, the, the question was going to come up there. Um, you know,

01:21:32

I've had, look, I'm not going to name the name, but we had an individual who

01:21:38

I had at my early events. Uh, he started to have views where he, he, he had a misrepresentation of what

01:21:47

Calvinism is. And he just, he started getting to the point where he was claiming that Calvinism is heresy yet.

01:21:56

Just mind you, by the way, folks, this is an individual who actually is a Calvinist. Okay.

01:22:02

He, he actually is a Calvinist. He just doesn't know what Calvinism is. Uh, if you guys need an example of that, go watch my debate with RA Fuentes on this channel.

01:22:12

And, uh, where the, he wanted to debate that Calvinism is useless and dangerous.

01:22:18

And anyone who knew what Calvinism is saw what I was doing in the first round of cross -examination where I asked him if he believes certain things.

01:22:26

And I asked him all five points of Calvinism without using the labels. And he agreed with every point of Calvinism.

01:22:35

And then second round, I asked him to define the labels and he misrepresented every one of them. So what you have there is people, most people that don't like Calvinism don't even know what it is.

01:22:46

And they don't like their understanding of Calvinism. And it's usually not the right understanding of Calvinism because most of them are

01:22:53

Calvinists. And so here he was, um, he was already invited.

01:23:00

The issues of his views on Calvinism were starting to become an issue. Uh, and so it was within the context of the, the message.

01:23:11

I preached a message of basically dealing with his position of under, of being undermining over the issue of Calvinism.

01:23:21

So did I have him at the conference? Yeah, I did. And you know what I did? I preached directly against what he was telling people privately.

01:23:32

I, I wasn't going to, I didn't hold back from it. I did it on purpose because I knew what he was, what he was doing.

01:23:39

And a lot of others knew what he was doing. He was already committed to being at the event. So look,

01:23:45

I've said, I will preach anywhere as long as no one tells me what I can preach. I'll go, I'll go to the Vatican as long as they let me preach, you know, that salvation is by grace alone.

01:23:55

And that believing that you have to have a church to do the interpretation of God's word is anathema.

01:24:02

It puts the church above, you know, above the, the, the Bible, right?

01:24:08

If they're going to let me do that, I'll, I'll go. Right. So in that case, and that'd be the closest that I could come to have a real world example to, to answer your question where I did allow someone who

01:24:19

I disagree with to come and, and be there. And so, you know, what did

01:24:26

I do? I let him come. Cause I, we had the commitment, but I, you know, preached against it.

01:24:32

Now here, I'll just put this up. This is the same individual, Mr. Morto. I'll just say it that way because I can't, uh,

01:24:38

I just don't want to butcher your first name. He says, I studied at a Calvinist Bible college. The claim is always that people don't understand

01:24:45

Calvinism who reject Calvinism. That's where the blinders are so seriously on. And you know what?

01:24:51

Every, every person that says that to me, I like latent flowers. I understood Calvinism because I grew up Calvinism.

01:24:57

Or like you say, you went to a Calvinist Bible college. That's no proof that you actually understand

01:25:02

Calvinism. When, when like a guy like latent flowers, when so many Calvinists say that you're misrepresenting the position, that should be a warning sign that you're misrepresenting the position.

01:25:15

It should be a flag. If I have someone tell me I'm misrepresenting their position, I take a step back and say, explain to me where I'm wrong.

01:25:23

I don't double down and say, I understood this. I grew up this, or I was taught. No, no,

01:25:29

It's the reason why, you know, recently, I don't, I didn't say this publicly, so I I'll say it now.

01:25:35

So, uh, last Friday I was invited into a fortune 500 company because I didn't know this,

01:25:40

Anthony, I don't know if you knew this, but last Friday was world religion day. Did you know we had that day?

01:25:48

Um, but I was invited into a fortune 500 company to speak to.

01:25:53

Basically all of their employees were invited. And I, I was asked to speak on the differences between Judaism, Islam, and Christianity.

01:26:04

Great opportunity. I got to speak to lots of people in a secular environment.

01:26:11

Explain. So what did I do? Well, I took a, you know, I can't, I was in there because of my book. What do they believe?

01:26:17

That gave me the credibility that I've done the research. You know, one of the things I said when I started, why are you listening to me?

01:26:25

Speak on these different religions, especially with it. I knew, I knew that the board that invited me was made up of, of a couple of Muslims.

01:26:34

And so I first said, yeah, I grew up Jewish. I understand that. Does the fact that I grew up Jewish, is that where I get my understanding of Judaism from?

01:26:42

No, actually I learned what Judaism was as a Christian studying the Talmud, reading the

01:26:48

Talmud. That's where I learned what Judaism taught. And so, but does that just growing up, does that give me a right to speak on Judaism?

01:26:56

No. So I go to, you know, well, I'm a Christian now. Does that give me a right? No. What, what gives me a right to speak on like Islam?

01:27:03

Well, the thing is, I went to these different religions and when I finished my studies, before I wrote my book, I went to authorities in those religions and say, am

01:27:11

I misrepresenting you? And so, you know, that's the thing.

01:27:16

Um, let me just put this. Mr. Marto says, it's not difficult to understand Tulip. When, when it, when you show it's inconsistency with scripture, you're told you don't understand

01:27:25

Calvinism. Well, here's my challenge to you, sir. My challenge to you is to email me info at striving for eternity .com.

01:27:35

Okay. Info at striving for eternity .com. Please email me so that we could set up a show here for you to show me the inconsistencies with scripture.

01:27:47

And I will show you if you really understand Calvinism. I mean, if you're gonna, don't just type it on the keyboard, come on in, we'll give you a full time.

01:27:58

I will give you the time to lay out your case, all right? So that is my challenge to you.

01:28:04

If Calvinism is a problem, hey, teach me, okay? So if you're a regular here, you know that I'm gonna give you a chance to say your piece.

01:28:15

So what we have to do is understand each side. So to answer your question, Anthony, I guess it was a long answer, but yeah,

01:28:22

I don't know what I would do. I know in the past, and obviously a different issue, it wasn't a watershed issue, but I continued to have the person there.

01:28:34

I just preached a message that was very much against what he was doing privately. And I told him to his face that what he was doing was,

01:28:42

I don't think, biblical, because he wouldn't publicly state his views on Calvinism.

01:28:47

He would just undermine different ministries and people by talking one -on -one behind the scenes.

01:28:53

And I didn't think that was right, and I told him that. So he eventually did come out publicly, but it was only because other people kind of forced the issue.

01:29:04

So, Anthony, any other comments that you had? We had a couple of people that came in backstage but dropped out.

01:29:11

Yeah, no, I was curious about your thoughts on that. I mean, if I was in your position, I would have dropped the speaker.

01:29:16

I would have dropped Alistair Begg personally. The moment I heard those comments,

01:29:22

I would have asked him about it immediately, and if he didn't back down from him, I'd have dropped him. Very similar to what

01:29:27

AFR did. Because I do believe this is a watershed issue. It's one of the few watershed issues that I think we have to be really, really tough on.

01:29:39

So that would be my position. Yeah, no, and this is the thing.

01:29:44

Look, I think there's people wrong on both sides, okay?

01:29:50

I think there's some who are just ignoring the advice that Alistair gave, and just being like, oh, he's our favorite.

01:29:58

We love him. He can't, like, as if he can't do wrong. Well, don't worship a man, okay?

01:30:04

He's a man, he can be wrong. John McArthur's a man, he can be wrong. In fact, I'm not even, and I correct that.

01:30:10

They're both, they are wrong. I'm a man, and I am wrong, okay? Do not think that, like, don't defend the person to the point that you can't admit when they're wrong.

01:30:22

I have good friends. I have a good friend of mine. He wanted to get into the pastorate. He asked my advice.

01:30:27

You know, he felt like he should get into the pastorate. He has adult children who are out of the home.

01:30:34

And he asked me, he's like, hey, what do you think? I said, no, you can't. Because even though he could do some ministry in the church and whatnot, when the children were in the home, their lifestyle there and things that happened, he didn't raise them well.

01:30:52

And so I said, you can't, you know? Now, everyone else was saying, oh, patting him on the back, you should do it, you should do it.

01:31:01

You know whose advice he, you know, he listened to? The guy that was gonna be open and honest with him and say, no, here's why, and he thanked me and said, you know what?

01:31:12

Everyone else was just encouraging me. No one wanted to, you know, but what you said is true. And he never brought it up again, you know?

01:31:22

So don't just blindly defend him. At the same point, I don't think we just throw everything out and throw him completely under the bus.

01:31:30

But I'm also saying, why is it we do this? I keep saying it,

01:31:35

Anthony, you just mentioned it, it's a watershed issue. This is an issue different than, if this happened in another country, if this happened a hundred years ago, maybe we wouldn't have the reaction we would have, okay?

01:31:51

Because it wasn't a watershed issue then, it is now, right?

01:31:57

For the last 10 years, this has become a watershed issue. That is why the reaction is so strong.

01:32:05

I will say where I think people are wrong, the people who are saying he's not saved, that I'm gonna say is wrong at this point.

01:32:14

Give it a few years, if it continues, maybe I'll change my mind. But at this point, the fruit has been there for over 40 years.

01:32:22

I think calling him unsaved, I think that is as wrong as the advice he gave. Yeah, and you know, what really is saddening too in all this is that there seems to be people that are rejoicing over being able to tear out the wall.

01:32:38

And that's not a good thing either. You know, we should be in tears over Alistair Begg's not only dumb statement, bad advice, however you wanna say it.

01:32:55

I've seen it said in many ways on Facebook. We should be really sad over it. We should be really sad over the fact that he doubled down with AFR Radio, tripled down with the sermon on Sunday.

01:33:07

It's seeming to dig his heels in far more now than what a past, like he kind of sound like it was just a quick passive comment in September.

01:33:20

No big deal, whatever. But then he's really dug his heels in on Sunday. And that is what is really troubling about all this.

01:33:29

But you're right, people have to stop anathematizing him right now. And just let some things play out.

01:33:36

It was mentioned in a few other, I'm sorry, Melissa and a few others, but Michelle Leslie and Amy Spreeman, I believe it was those two did a podcast.

01:33:51

My wife listened to the whole thing. And it was, the claim was that Alistair Begg didn't just have somebody give, whether it's a testimony or teach from his pulpit, but he made a comment at a conference that was attended by,

01:34:04

I believe Beth Moore and a few other people that we would not agree with. And he said, it's okay for a female to teach a mixed congregation or mixed audience about a local pastor.

01:34:19

I believe that that was the claim that was brought up. That would be really troubling if that's true.

01:34:26

That's where it always begins, right? It begins with women preachers. That's right. That's right.

01:34:33

Yeah, and apparently Michelle Leslie and Amy Spreeman both downgraded him on their list of approved teachers multiple years ago.

01:34:43

How I missed this, I have no idea, seeing that he is in my backyard. But how many people missed this interview that he did in September, right?

01:34:54

It's only because someone picked it up and I think it's Protesti or someone that had an audience that picked it up and that's where it's like, okay, it got a lot of traction because all of a sudden people are like, wait, what?

01:35:07

And I mean, look, if you're on X, it's the only thing being talked about for the last two weeks. I mean, that's why we're dealing with it.

01:35:17

And we're gonna deal with it one more time. I'm gonna have to deal with this one more time on the Theology Throwdown. If you don't listen to the

01:35:23

Theology Throwdown podcast, that's where all the Christian podcast community podcasters get together and discuss a topic.

01:35:29

We're gonna discuss this topic. We're gonna have differences, I'm sure. And that's the goal of that podcast is to have those differences, to have those discussions.

01:35:44

Now, Mr. Mordo is saying, I would like to think he's senile because I've benefited from his teaching.

01:35:52

And this is the thing, this very well could be what it is. It very well, look, folks, when people get older, there is a tendency to just kind of go soft, to wanna be liked.

01:36:08

That could be, it very well could be, it's part of aging. That doesn't mean we throw out all the good teaching he did in the past, but it means we gotta be cautious maybe in the future.

01:36:21

So if there's more that is, and I'm gonna just tell you right now, just knowing the way people are, the sermon ministries and bloggers and all, they're digging into everything

01:36:32

Alistair ever said right now and ever written. And if there's anything else,

01:36:37

I'm telling you, it's gonna be coming up. There's people that are probably pouring through, they're looking for something.

01:36:43

By the way, I was just warned when you have the sermon bloggers because they're looking for something.

01:36:51

And so you want, look, Anthony, you just mentioned Amy Spearman, Michelle Leslie, they do a podcast together.

01:37:00

They have two ladies ministries separately. I encourage you to check out what they say, why?

01:37:06

They are careful, the sermon bloggers. They will research their stuff thoroughly before they say something.

01:37:16

But there are the discernment bloggers that are going through Alistair Begg and they're looking to get clicks.

01:37:22

They're looking to get downloads. They're looking to get attention. And so they're looking for something.

01:37:27

Yeah, here's Melissa brings up, there's many Julie Roys out there digging up dirt on everyone.

01:37:33

And that's a great example because she just looks for something she can twist to say what she wants said.

01:37:40

There are the discernment bloggers that are looking to misrepresent someone because they can spin it the way they wanna spin it.

01:37:47

So you're gonna get that with the Alistair Begg. You're gonna get people that are gonna be saying things. So we have to, my caution is be fair, hear both sides.

01:37:57

Don't just say, oh, well, here's a blogger saying this. It must be true. You know, look, Melissa and Dee last week, we went through this saying, was this a woman who was preaching?

01:38:06

Oh, maybe it was someone just giving her testimony. There was the back and forth. That is good discernment. Not just jumping to a conclusion going like,

01:38:13

I can't be wrong, but hearing, oh, maybe I'm wrong on this. Maybe let me investigate. Oh, you know,

01:38:18

I think I was wrong. Oh, wait, more information came in and I wasn't wrong, I was actually right in the original. That's what happened.

01:38:24

Well, that's the way we have to do things, all right? So I think that there's gonna be more coming out,

01:38:36

I'm sure. And not all of it is gonna, none of it's gonna be right or it'll be misrepresented.

01:38:43

I'm sure of it because that's how these things go. I hope that we don't have to continue talking about Alistair.

01:38:50

I mean, look, for the record, I used to listen to him once in a while on the radio, but not that much.

01:38:58

I don't think, I think if I have any of his books, I must've got them at Shepard's Conference.

01:39:04

I don't think there's ever been an Alistair Begg book that I bought. The closest

01:39:09

I think that I ever was to Alistair Begg is that he and I shared editors. So that's about as close as, his editor was also my editor.

01:39:20

Yeah, that's about as close as I think I ever got to Alistair Begg. So. You know,

01:39:27

I will say this, you know, Dee brought up that, she says, I've listened to Alistair for a while and his voice seems shaky in the last year or so.

01:39:35

You know, because we live close by, I've listened to him off and on, my wife was.

01:39:41

And one thing we've noticed over the years is that he seems to have gone from being a really good, careful expositor to being much more of a conference style speaker, even on Sunday mornings.

01:39:54

So there has been that change in terms of his speaking. I will also say that when

01:40:00

I watched his Sunday sermon, afterwards, the recording, he looked more tired than I have ever seen him before.

01:40:08

Usually as a really sharp thinker, he wasn't quite right.

01:40:14

Well, let's get the benefit of the doubt. Let's work through this, right? And granted, when I saw it,

01:40:19

I watched it at triple speed, because that's what I do. And so some of the shaky voice

01:40:25

I might miss. He was tired. I would say go to the sermon the week before, you know, or a couple of weeks before and see if he's tired there.

01:40:37

I would assume after the, you know, with all this breaking, all the discussion all week long, he probably had lots of meetings with elders.

01:40:44

He was probably meeting with MacArthur. He was meeting with American Family Radio. It probably was exhausting for him.

01:40:50

So the fact that he was tired this week, maybe that's why the sermon was less of a sermon and more of a defense of his behavior.

01:40:59

Because that's what it's, I'm just saying, that's what it seemed. It's like he had a text. It had nothing to do with what he wanted to say. Yeah, it was bizarre, his sermon on Sunday.

01:41:11

Absolutely bizarre. He would have been blasted. Had he been a seminary student and gave that as one of his sample sermons, he'd have been blasted for it.

01:41:20

To be honest, I will say one other thing about Alistair that really has bugged me.

01:41:26

I kind of wrote him off over three years ago. And it's because he had his church closed for six months.

01:41:35

He was closed from March when, you know, the country had its sham of a shutdown with COVID.

01:41:43

And he didn't open until September. And at that point, he - That was a long two weeks. Yeah, it was a long two weeks.

01:41:50

Long two weeks, yeah. Yeah, so he was closed for six months. He opened for three weeks outdoors and then he moved it inside, only because people complained as it was getting colder in Ohio.

01:42:00

I mean, we were talking and it's September. So he was closed. He contended to his congregation.

01:42:08

Not only that, a lot of people don't remember this. I have not been able to find a video on this, but we did talk about this on Apologetics Live in the summer of 2020.

01:42:17

Right after MacArthur made his decision, well, Grace Community Church Elders made their decision to open up Grace Community Church and take the fight to the state of California.

01:42:26

There was a video within a week or two that came out by Alistair Begg, who blasted pastors for opening their churches.

01:42:36

And he did not mention John MacArthur by name or Grace Community Church. Yeah, I remember that.

01:42:43

Yeah, there's no mistake that he was talking about John MacArthur.

01:42:48

The way he described the situation, there's nobody else on the national level that would have fit the details of his short, 11, 12 minute video, whatever that was.

01:42:57

So I've had a problem with him since then. I will also tell you, Begg's congregation lost several thousand people that we know of.

01:43:05

Some may have gone back, but they lost a ton of people through that year because he refuses to open.

01:43:12

People said, lost him going forward. Even after we reopened, a lot of people didn't go back because they said, how can

01:43:20

I trust this guy if something ever happens again in this country? Yeah, yeah. So let me just say that Dee says,

01:43:28

I'm gonna go through some of the comments here. Dee says, the shaky voice has been happening for a while. So, okay, so you have that.

01:43:36

Humble Clay said this, Andy Stanley. We did deal with that earlier,

01:43:42

Humble Clay. Yeah, I don't put, I'm not putting

01:43:47

Alistair Begg in the category of Andy Stanley yet. Why do

01:43:54

I say that? You know, it's not like, give it enough time.

01:44:01

MacArthur always says, truth and time go hand in hand. Give Alistair enough time, we're gonna see if he's gonna go astray.

01:44:09

You know, Humble Clay says, he's not Ravi Zacharias. I agree. So Scott's saying that Ligonier also took him off of Refinite.

01:44:21

So that's interesting. So let's see.

01:44:31

Carol's saying that Begg's sermon on September 16th, 2019 on 1

01:44:37

Timothy 2, 9 -15 on women. So I guess something he must've preached back then.

01:44:43

I'm gonna leave that up so folks can go listen, find that sermon and see what he said. I'm not sure,

01:44:49

Carol, what the issue is from within that sermon, but I'm assuming you're saying that he was teaching something that wasn't good there.

01:44:58

All right, so let me get to a couple of other things that we had here. I mentioned last week about emailing me, letting me know, we're thinking about switching days from Thursday night to, right now it's looking like possibly

01:45:14

Sunday night, which is where we started. When Matt Slick and I started this, it was Sunday nights. Sunday nights was just hard because both of us were doing a lot of preaching.

01:45:23

We were traveling and Sunday nights were just hard to do. And so we both, when we started over again, we started this on Thursday nights.

01:45:32

Right now I'm thinking maybe Sunday night might work better. The issue was that there's a lot of people doing things on Thursday night.

01:45:40

There's a lot of other friends of mine who are doing live streams on Thursday night. Now, Melissa is saying, and I didn't know this, she said,

01:45:45

Matt, Andrew, off topic, but Matt Slick is no longer doing Bible study on Thursday. I don't know if that affects your decision on changing the day of the show.

01:45:55

Well, that was part of it because Matt and I started this together.

01:46:02

When he was looking to move, he said, hey, I can't do this anymore. I'm just too busy. So we got other people coming in.

01:46:10

And then when he realized he really couldn't move to Arizona, he was doing it for his wife, but it wasn't gonna be good for his wife in the end.

01:46:21

And so he decided to stay put. So he wanted to do a Bible study. And in the process of that, he left it to the people that wanted to study what day should we do

01:46:30

Thursday? And so, yeah, we used to have it where we'd have a lot of people cut out.

01:46:35

We'd watch the audience at the second half of the hour just cut out. And we knew they were all going because Matt and I have a lot of the same audience, but it wasn't just that.

01:46:45

I mean, there's a lot of others, Open Air Theology, they're doing their live stream on Thursday nights. There's just others who are all doing it on Thursday night.

01:46:55

And I'm just saying, maybe we'll change. We haven't, we're not definitive yet. It's something we're talking about.

01:47:01

And if we do, we're gonna announce it for several weeks before we do, okay? Just for the record.

01:47:08

I just, I'm sorry, Anthony. I'm gonna deal with this just because I can't help myself, even though this was from earlier.

01:47:15

But so we got two comments here. Mr. Marto said, this is dealing with 9 -11 conspiracy.

01:47:24

Go to 3 ,000 architects and engineer websites who debunked the official narrative from November 11th.

01:47:32

And then Frank says, if you don't have questions about 9 -11 being an inside job, you don't know about Barry Jenkins or the

01:47:43

Project Northwoods. I'm just gonna say, I'll agree.

01:47:49

I don't know about those studies, okay? I don't have to know about those studies because unlike other people,

01:47:58

I actually have firsthand evidence that you will never be able to see, okay? So when you're dealing with stuff like this, there's information the government does not release to everyone for anyone can read stuff and see stuff, okay?

01:48:16

So there are some things I would say, yeah, there's, do I believe that the

01:48:21

CIA killed JFK? Yes, I do. Do I have evidence that I could give to you?

01:48:27

No, I don't. But do I believe 9 -11 was an inside job? No, it wasn't. No, it wasn't.

01:48:35

In fact, I'll go back to what I said earlier, right? The fact is, people talk.

01:48:44

You know why some of the strongest evidence we have for why JFK was killed by the government?

01:48:51

Well, part, it just, there's too many people that have kind of spilled the beans at times. One of the

01:48:56

Secret Service agents who has admitted, like the big conspiracy was there was a pristine bullet that was on the gurney.

01:49:05

How did it get there? Well, Secret Service agent said he found it in the backseat when Jackie leaned the president forward, he saw it there, he picked it up and he put it in his pocket.

01:49:15

When he got to the hospital, he figured, well, they're gonna need to know this. This is evidence, so he put it on the gurney.

01:49:23

But people just, that information's out there. There's a lot of things that are out there because it's hard to keep, if it's conspiracy, someone's gonna talk.

01:49:33

The fact that someone goes, hey, I'm a patsy. That's not what people say, okay?

01:49:41

When people are wrongly judged, they say, I'm innocent. They don't say

01:49:48

I'm a patsy, which tells you he knew what was happening, right?

01:49:54

He knew he was being played, right? So, sorry, 9 -11.

01:50:01

So, I don't know what you know, Andrew, but here's a question and let's see if you can answer this or not.

01:50:11

I don't necessarily believe it's an inside job. However, do you believe that there were explosives placed inside the buildings that helped those come down, especially with a third building that didn't get hit by an airplane and looked like a controlled demolition, just like the other two buildings and just like other buildings in controlled demolitions?

01:50:35

Well, my answer will not be very satisfying. I cannot confirm nor deny.

01:50:41

Yeah, well, because that's why, I mean, there's a lot of other conspiracy theories going around that whatever, but that's the issue that I'm not sure -

01:50:53

That's one that a lot of people focus on, yep. Yeah, I can't put my finger on it. You have the issue of the

01:51:00

Pentagon where there's $1 .5 trillion missing out of the defense budget. The one building that got hit is the building that had all the financial records.

01:51:09

No plane wreckage was found. I mean, there's weird circumstances, but yeah.

01:51:16

So here, let me give you, let me give folks a piece of advice when it comes to conspiracy theories or especially with dealing with any government, okay?

01:51:27

People usually think it's a big conspiracy theory. And by the way, I think it was Melissa that actually has the answer to your question because Jeff is watching.

01:51:36

Bigfoot doesn't exist. See, Jeff Rice would say that it's Bigfoot. It was Bigfoot. That was the answer.

01:51:42

Bigfoot was marching around the buildings and they collapsed. Andre the Giant had really big feet.

01:51:51

We are gonna have a Bigfoot discussion at Open Air Theology this year, and it's gonna be, everything, all the conversations are gonna be taped, recorded,

01:51:59

I should say, not taped, that it's gonna be there. But here's the thing.

01:52:05

People want to think, let's go to someone else. Let's go to COVID, right? Was COVID some big conspiracy?

01:52:15

I don't think so. Because I just, I understand, huh? Oh yeah, absolutely it was.

01:52:24

And one of the things that I've dug up for one of the newest courses I'm teaching on right now, which is The Great Reset, this might take a different episode for us to talk about, but there are patents out.

01:52:37

So in the early 1990s, the CDC, with Anthony Fauci's name, had a patent on the genetic sequencing of COVID, of coronavirus.

01:52:47

Okay, so, well yeah, I'll let you finish and then I'll. No, that's okay. I mean, they had that.

01:52:53

University of North Carolina had recombinant DNA patents in the early 2000s. There's been,

01:52:59

Bill Gates and the globalists have had multiple run -throughs, theoretical run -throughs about how, or what it would look like if a virus was unleashed on a population.

01:53:12

I mean, literally everything that has already been thought about, planned, known, developed.

01:53:22

Coronavirus was one in a long line of viruses that was manufactured, that we know it's tied to patents through the

01:53:31

CDC, NIH, NIAID, Anthony Fauci, it goes all the way back to HIV. So here's the thing.

01:53:37

There's a lot to it. Yeah, but now this is the thing. Like you said it was planned. Melissa said it was planned.

01:53:43

What I'm saying is when we deal with this, it's not, so it's not this big conspiracy that people, there's a lot of things that are, some are coincidence, some are planned, but not for the reason.

01:53:56

So Anthony, you know my views on this, but do I believe COVID was released?

01:54:01

Yes. Why? I don't think it was released for any of the reasons that people in America think it was released, because Americans have a view only of America, okay?

01:54:14

You know my bride is from Hong Kong. We were very up on Hong Kong news. Before COVID, what was all the news about?

01:54:21

The fact that China was breaking their agreement with England, where they were supposed to leave

01:54:27

Hong Kong untouched and running itself for 50 years, 25 years in, they're breaking that off and they needed money because they were on the verge of bankruptcy and they needed the protests to stop.

01:54:40

So what you find is most often, it is not that there's some big conspiracy, but you have a bunch of selfish people looking to do something for themselves.

01:54:51

So I believe China didn't care about what effect it had on anyone else.

01:54:58

They just wanted to keep people in Hong Kong indoors and releasing that just at the time of Chinese New Year would spread it.

01:55:08

I don't know if they thought it would spread all over the world. I think they thought it would spread at least to Hong Kong, right?

01:55:15

Because what happened? When that happened, they said, oh, everyone's gotta be indoors, shut everything down. And then all the protests stopped and China was able to take over Hong Kong and all that ended.

01:55:29

They got what they wanted, right? Now, are there lots of other people that took advantage of it?

01:55:35

Absolutely, but they're all looking to do their own selfishness. They're all looking to say, and what happens when you have people who start to realize, the people who used to work for Fauci that suddenly realized, wait a minute, now that they're seeing what's happening, how people are using it and the effects of it around the world, they don't want anyone else to know because they're gonna be guilty.

01:55:58

So what do they do? They start censoring people, right? It's not the big conspiracy.

01:56:05

Now, so that's where I can agree with the patents, Anthony, because Fauci wanted to make money, right? He makes great money when he can produce a virus that he already produced an antidote for or a vaccine.

01:56:20

Hey, that's great. I got the solution, folks. There's a virus out there. Yeah, I let it loose, but I got the solution.

01:56:27

I got the vaccine, right? So that's selfishness. It's no different than Bill Gates saying, oh, we need to get away from meat.

01:56:34

Why? Because I bought all the farms and produce plant -based meat, right?

01:56:40

He just wants to make money. He doesn't really care about meat, right?

01:56:46

So when I say it's not the big conspiracy, I don't mean that there aren't people using it.

01:56:52

Absolutely. The Democrats used it to say, oh, we need mail -in balloting. Everyone's gotta do it by mail because they found out a way that they could cheat and steal elections.

01:57:01

Okay, right? This is no different with anybody, though. So that's why I say it's not some big conspiracy.

01:57:08

It's a bunch of selfish people making selfish decisions for themselves, taking advantage of situations, seeing how they can use it to help themselves or to protect themselves.

01:57:21

And, you know, oh, they could censor anyone that disagrees with them so that, you know, only their opinion gets heard.

01:57:30

Yeah. So I can see why you're not, yeah. I can see why you're not calling it a conspiracy from that perspective.

01:57:38

However, again, Bill Gates, through the Rockefeller Foundation, Klaus Schwab, Kluverum, all these guys had been planning this type of pandemic, right?

01:57:52

They plan it, they, you know, they're like, oh, what if this happens? Yeah, they'll do all that.

01:57:59

And there's plenty of... But that doesn't, what I'm saying is, I don't think it's this, they all meet behind a, you know, in a dark room with cigars and say, we're gonna take over the world.

01:58:11

I mean, they would like to take, they just wanna make more money, right? And they don't care about it. Well, that's half the battle.

01:58:18

I think half of it is making a lot of money and there's a lot of money to be made. It's one of the reasons why I'm against vaccines in general.

01:58:25

The seed owns 67 patents, we're talking about... And we're gonna have you on for a debate.

01:58:33

That's the plan. We're gonna have you on a good friend of yours who is also a medical doctor on, you know, vaccines and medicine.

01:58:43

It'll be, I just gonna, if we did, we have talked about it. Anthony and I and this other guest, we've talked about it.

01:58:52

His name is Eric. We've talked about it. We'll probably do this at some point. It will be a fun debate, yet informative for folks.

01:59:00

You know? Yeah. You're good. Yeah, we would probably agree on most things, but there'll be a couple of things that will be interesting for us to battle through.

01:59:13

But I will say this when it comes to COVID and then these pandemics, so to speak, is that a large part of it is money.

01:59:21

There is no doubt about that, Andrew. You're absolutely right about that. The other part of it though is Malthusian theory that came out in the

01:59:28

Henry Kissinger report, which is about depopulation. So in the one world government in the end, where they want government over the entire world where communism rules, they want to depopulate to the limited natural resources for the people that are left.

01:59:49

And because why? Because they want to kill them all. Yeah. I mean, they don't think in their own mind, like we're doing this to kill people.

01:59:57

That's the thing. It's not that they're like, we must make people sick. No, they're just going, there's problems with too many people.

02:00:03

And we're in charge. The elite always wants to benefit from it. And they're looking to go, how can we make money off this?

02:00:11

How do we get more power out of this? How do we benefit ourselves through this? And this is why they need

02:00:18

AI and robots is because they have to be able to find a way to replace the productivity of a lesser population.

02:00:30

So they're developing AI. No, no, no. Go back to the beginning of the show. They need to replace the lack of productivity from Gen Z that doesn't work.

02:00:40

Well, that's true. We're not going to handle it nine to five. Doesn't Gen Z recognize that they'll be the first ones killed off?

02:00:49

Only the second half of the Christians, but like they're absolutely useless. They're not going to be able to use it for anything.

02:00:56

So they're not going to give them any rations of food. Well, I think we got to do it.

02:01:06

I do want to have you come back on because I do have, and you and I have talked about this for years, but we just haven't done it.

02:01:13

I do have some articles that we're going to do. At some point this year, Anthony's going to come on when he's back home and because I want to have him have good internet for this.

02:01:26

But we're starting to see something that Anthony predicted a long time ago, which is these transgenders who had sex change operations as 15, 16 year olds are now turning 18 and finding out that they have the legal right to sue the doctors.

02:01:42

You have a bunch of entitled children who now find out they can make money suing the doctors.

02:01:49

It doesn't matter whether they agreed with it or not. It's the fact that now they're 18 and we're going to dive into that.

02:01:57

So when Anthony gets home, we're going to plan that because there's a lot of very interesting medical things with that and it already happened.

02:02:06

There's already a case. Someone had a sex change operation at 16, turned 18, sued not only the doctor that did the procedure, but also the pediatric association and won in court.

02:02:20

So with that, I purposely wanted to go at least two minutes over because I knew someone would do it and Melissa was the first I saw, but yay,

02:02:31

Anthony time. So there we go. We had to do it since Anthony came back. We had to go over just a little. That's right.

02:02:38

So yeah, so next week we will pick up the, continue with our review of the remnant radio responses.

02:02:47

We'll probably, hopefully get into the whole issue of this linkage that some are starting to see with transgenders and mass violence.

02:02:56

Real interesting article because it points out that they're redefining what a mass murder is now so that some of the transgenders, their violence doesn't fit within the definition now of a mass murder so that they're just, that way they can just say, well, look, there's not that many transgenders that have done that.

02:03:16

Well, yeah, if you change the numbers, it's like saying, well, we legalized marijuana so there's not as much illegal drug crimes.

02:03:26

Of course there isn't when you legalize it. If you legalize murder, there won't be, all of a sudden the murder rate's gonna go down.

02:03:34

So there you go. So that's what's coming up next week. And so we'll plan on that to let you guys know,

02:03:43

I will be out on, so we'll have a show for the next two weeks, but I will be out on the 22nd because I'll be at the

02:03:53

Open Air Theology Conference. So I'm sure that Drew or someone will fill in.

02:03:59

We'll either have Drew or Aaron. And so be looking forward to that. I'm just trying to think if there was anything, oh, there was something else

02:04:06

I was gonna mention. So one other thing, just for those who listened to the rap report, you know that I've been doing a series on what is a pastor.

02:04:14

And so as I've been saying, I've been bribing folks for comments because I wanna make sure that I cover everything.

02:04:20

We've gotten some good comments and good things. You know, one where I wasn't planning, someone asked me to dig into a little bit more of the difference between a deacon and deaconess, my thoughts on that.

02:04:31

I was planning on covering that, but I got one today. I really wasn't so much thinking of getting into.

02:04:39

I just hadn't really thought about it, but asking the question of, should women pursue a pastoral degree?

02:04:48

And so that's now a question that I'm going to end up addressing. What I'll probably do is when I finish up the series,

02:04:53

I'm gonna try to get all these questions and go into them. But I'm doing a series on what is a pastor. I've dealt with what a pastor is not.

02:05:01

A pastor is not a woman. So we spent three weeks on that. Also dealt with the pastor's not a street preacher.

02:05:07

Dealt with that as well. But I've been saying, hey, if folks want what I'm doing, I'm bribing you with these cables.

02:05:15

Actually, I think I have one here. I could show you since we do video here. For those watching, this is the

02:05:21

Lux cable that we got. It's longer than most cables, which I like. Anthony, I think

02:05:27

I gave you one or more of these. They're gold plated, so you like it?

02:05:32

You're starting nodding your head. They're amazing. Absolutely amazing. Yeah.

02:05:39

Yeah, you were wondering. I was saying it was really cool, and you were like, when I gave it to you,

02:05:44

I think you were like, yeah, okay, well, I'll try it out. I'm like, a cable, really?

02:05:51

No, it is. It's an excellent cable. Yeah, and they sell for like $79,

02:05:57

I think, on Amazon. I didn't pay that much, and I bought them. The ministry did, and I donated them to the ministry. But we bought a bunch of them, and so we actually had, okay, so here's the thing.

02:06:05

A couple of people, I said, because we got two people that were like, can I just get the cable? And I was like, okay, sure. So I said that on the show.

02:06:11

I said, all right, if you just want the cable, fine. Just ask for it. I'll send you one, right? Well, okay, we got like a half dozen people that go,

02:06:19

I just want the cable. Okay, if you want the cable, you gotta actually give us your address.

02:06:24

I'm just saying, if you just send me a thing saying, I just want the cable, and you don't give me the address,

02:06:31

I'm not gonna chase you down. If you want one, you actually have to give us your address, all right?

02:06:37

Just saying, but what I'm looking for is I'm looking for folks who are listening to that, to the

02:06:43

Wrap Report podcast, and to give me what it is you wanna hear on what a pastor is.

02:06:50

The next episode that we'll do should be covering the role of the pastor as far as what is the elder, the shepherd, the overseer?

02:07:00

Are those three different positions or are they three different roles?

02:07:06

We're gonna get into that a bit. So just to extend it, since someone said that.

02:07:11

I have a question. I have a question. You have to address, should a pastor give advice to a grandmother to go to a homosexual wedding of...

02:07:23

We just did that for two hours. What do you mean? That one's easy.

02:07:28

No. Right?

02:07:34

I know. I shouldn't be laughing about this, but I still can't get over this.

02:07:41

I really cannot get over this. Yeah, so Melissa, I did this purposely. Melissa says, she said earlier, we got a shrunken, we got shrunken on Anthony time.

02:07:52

So I kept - Skunked. Skunked, sorry, skunked. And so I purposely went longer. And then she says, we gotta keep

02:07:58

Andrew talking to get more time. So, yeah, well - Hurry up, ask questions.

02:08:04

Ask questions, fast. See, you guys weren't asking enough questions. If you really want, you just gotta come in, right?

02:08:12

Because when you're backstage, it's more of a chance that we're gonna go a little bit longer to make sure we get to everyone backstage.

02:08:18

So I am glad everyone came out. Hope this was helpful, educational. And I hope it was a balanced approach, not just to this specific thing with Alistair Begg, but something that will be balanced that you could use in applying to any other discernment thing.

02:08:37

So, see, this is the thing,

02:08:43

KT, we're, wrong one. KT says, what about the pipe bombs in 2021? Well, there were 20, it was in 2021, the bombs, the

02:08:54

January 5th bombs. Boy, I would love to talk about that because I got a lot of information on that, but that'll be for another episode.