Special Event: Join Us In Oklahoma with Russell Hunter

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January 29, 2020

Watch this special edition of Apologia Radio in which we have a very special guest: Russell Hunter with Free the States! Be sure to share this important episode and be sure to join us in Oklahoma. We can end it, together.

00:00: Non -rockabotas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it!
00:07: Are you gonna bark all day, little doggie? Or are you gonna bite? We're being delusional. Delusional?
00:14: Delusional's okay in your world view. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional.
00:20: So you calling me delusional using your world view is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt. It's the unhop on!
00:26: Yes! What? What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.
00:37: The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.
00:44: Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Don't go into the world and make homies.
00:52: Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke, pasta.
00:59: When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.
01:21: Woe to those who decree iniquitous decrees and the writers who keep writing oppression.
01:28: To turn aside the needy from justice and to rob the poor of my people of their right. That widows may be their spoil and that they may make the fatherless their prey.
01:41: What's up guys? Welcome back to another episode of Apologia Radio. This is the gospel heard around the world. You guys can get more at ApologiaStudios .com.
01:49: A -P -O -L -O -G -I -A -Studios .com. I encourage you guys to get there. I am Jeff the
01:54: Comb of the Ninja. That's Luke the Bear right there. What up? And I encourage everybody to go to ApologiaStudios .com.
01:59: You guys can get all the past radio episodes. I mean, there's hundreds of podcasts and radio episodes we have up there.
02:06: Tons of stuff on the topic that we're going to be talking about today. We have interaction with those who would oppose.
02:11: And we have stuff we lay down in terms of the scriptural support and foundation for all that we're saying and we're doing.
02:18: And I know a lot of you guys right now are watching this. You're thinking, my goodness, we're talking about this a lot lately. And the answer is, of course we are because it's not over yet.
02:26: Criminalization has not taken place. Justice is not established for the pre -born. And so we're going to keep talking about it until this is officially over.
02:33: And then we'll glory in God and praise him and move on from there. But right now we have amazing opportunities that are happening that I want you all to hear about.
02:43: And you'll notice I have a very special guest to my left. A very special guest that many of you guys never thought would actually see.
02:50: Look at this. Is this a prank? Look at this. I'm superimposed. It's a hologram. Yeah, it's a hologram.
02:56: We're just going to talk trash through the hologram. This is my friend, my brother, our friend and brother.
03:03: This is Russell Hunter with Free the States. And many of you guys know about his amazing work that he's doing. We are so grateful, so honored to have him here with us.
03:10: And to be sort of actually following behind all that you've laid down in Oklahoma to establish justice for the pre -born.
03:18: So Russell Hunter, welcome to Apology Radio, brother. Glad to be here. Awesome. Look at the gospel. Isn't that amazing?
03:23: That's what I post on Facebook. This is the gospel. That's right. No one would have thought this would happen. Yeah, God is good. So we need to let everybody know about what's happening in Oklahoma.
03:32: So I know we don't want to have a six -hour episode. We want to try to condense everything together. So I'll do my best to get my mouth shut and not bring us off on different trails.
03:40: But I want to equip people. So let's start with this. We're going to let everyone know that in Oklahoma there is an opportunity to criminalize and to end abortion.
03:49: To abolish it once and for all. Senator Joseph Silk is trying to establish it with what bill?
03:55: Senate Bill 13. Okay. Still alive and well. Senate Bill 13. This pursuit of justice in Oklahoma was ultimately killed by the pro -life lobby and establishments in the past.
04:09: And we'll talk a bit about that. But we have an opportunity with Abolition Day on February the 11th at the
04:16: Oklahoma State Capitol, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma at 10 a .m. To show up and to essentially plead for the lives of these fatherless children and to demand immediate justice.
04:29: Not incremental movements backwards, but immediate justice for the pre -born. This is life and death. And so we're saying immediate justice.
04:37: So tell everyone about how they can get connected really quickly to what's happening. And then let's start building some stuff and help people understand this.
04:42: Okay. Yeah. Right now, the most important thing for the viewers or the listeners of this show is what
04:47: Jeff's saying. February 11th, Abolition Day. The point of that whole deal, the point of getting lots of people there is the
04:55: Oklahoma State Legislature. In Oklahoma, it's a pro -life state. Pro -lifers dominate the House.
05:00: They dominate the Senate. We've got a pro -life governor. But year after year, they believe that if they put forward bills regulating abortion, that's enough.
05:08: They're going to retain their offices. They're going to continue to get votes, contributions for being pro -life. And as Senator Silk has sort of embraced an abolitionist position and put forward
05:20: Senate Bill 13, the Abolition of Abortion in Oklahoma Act, the rest of the legislature, men and women that I talk to, they're actually sort of kind of beginning to keep the pulse or like test the pulse of the people in Oklahoma to know, are the people of Oklahoma wanting us to pass pro -life bills and they're going to continue to bring us roses every year and come to the pro -life marches?
05:44: Or are they going to sort of shift towards demanding that we establish justice for the pre -born? And so when they look out at the rallies, for instance, the
05:53: I don't know what day it is. I think it's February 4th or 5th. The pro -lifers are having Rose Day, which they've been having for 30 some odd years.
06:00: And they'll look at that and they'll say, OK, you know, you're 1 ,000, 2 ,000 people that always come.
06:06: They always give us roses. They always thank us for our pro -life statements and so on and so forth. And yet abortion remains legal.
06:12: Five to 6 ,000 babies are murdered in Oklahoma every year. But they look at that. And if that number starts to decrease and the number of people saying, no, we don't we're not going to give you roses to regulate abortion.
06:22: We want you to establish justice and equal protection for all pre -born human beings. If they look at the crowd on Abolition Day and it signifies to them that there's been a shift away from regulation to abolition, they will start taking seriously
06:37: Senator Silk's bill, those who support it, and they'll begin to sort of co -author, co -sponsor, get behind it.
06:45: Legislators have told us, listen, if it's kind of hard for us to use the bathroom on Abolition Day, not only will we listen to your bill, we'll we'll grab it and say it's ours.
06:54: OK, because they're they're popularity people. They're thinking, how do I get reelected and so on and so forth?
07:00: So that's the point of having so many people. And the other thing is they need to see that abolitionist ideology and that sort of stuff isn't fringe.
07:09: Right. That that it isn't just a small group of people calling for the criminalization of abortion. It's not just some sort of small, like, like wild eyed prophetic group.
07:19: This is standard Christian theology, standard Christian theology applied. Yes. And that the churches.
07:27: Yeah. A legislator told me we would pass a bill to abolish abortion if we thought the churches really wanted it.
07:32: Yeah. And I'm like, well, they do. And he's like, no, no, no. If the Southern Baptists in Oklahoma wanted us to abolish abortion, we would.
07:40: But they don't really want that. Well, and so it's like, ah, of course, the regular
07:45: Christian guy does want that. Right. So we need to show them that.
07:51: And we'll get into that, because I think a lot of people that may be watching this for the first time, they're like, well, I thought we're Christians, we're pro -life.
07:57: We're here now denigrating the pro -life methodology. And I don't mean that. And that's OK, because it needs to be denigrated in terms of as a method, as a methodological pursuit, what they're up to, what they have been doing and just say, no, we need to be consistent
08:12: Christians here. Yeah. Consistent with our theology, what we say about mankind, about humans.
08:19: This is the image of God from the moment of conception. Taking the life of another human being in an unjustified manner is murder, according to God's law.
08:27: And interestingly, in the past history of the United States of America and elsewhere, everywhere Christians went, that's the view that we held to it.
08:33: You can't murder your child whenever, in the womb or not. And so we need to talk about how should we properly think about what it means to be pro -life, for life, protecting human life, over against how the pro -life lobbies have created that position.
08:49: But people can go right now to freethestates .org, and they can go and they can actually participate up to Abolition Day in a conference that's really running all day, every day.
09:03: Yeah, it's the first, I guess, Friday, February 7th, 8th, 9th, we're doing a conference.
09:10: It's a lot of lectures, seminars, training. The idea is that people are going to be lobbying on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, the 10th, 11th, 12th, they're going to be going to Abolition Day, talking to their legislators, going in and out of the offices of senators and that sort of thing.
09:25: We want to train them up over the weekend. So we've got Bradley Pierce talking about why criminalization.
09:33: Why challenge the central holding of Roe. Get people sort of equipped, get them the material, get them basically instructions.
09:42: Here's where you go, here's what you say, here's your talking points, this is what the legislators are going to say, here's how you respond. All that stuff, the first part of the
09:49: Abolition Now conference. Then the second part, we're just going to basically get them to be the workforce, the lobbying force.
09:56: So they'll go and they'll spend a lot of time, eight hours at the Capitol, talking to the legislators on both sides and the governor.
10:05: And hopefully we'll train them up and then send them out. And a lot of people are pretty trained by now. But for the newbies, it's going to be a great conference.
10:11: So they can go and register at freethestates .org? Yeah, you can go to freethestates .org or .com to go to the same place.
10:19: But yeah, there's a registration there. And I think that the Freethistates board would be like, don't say that.
10:26: But if you look at it and you're like, oh, there's a fee? Like, oh my gosh, I just want to surf. Just come anyway.
10:32: You don't have to register. We'll be putting the schedule up probably today. But we want people to get equipped and understand what they're doing.
10:41: So come to this stuff and yeah, get trained and then let us point you where to go.
10:47: Okay. So officially, Abolition Day is February 11th, 10 a .m.,
10:52: State Capitol. And we are giving an invitation to Christians around the country to fly out, to bus out, to drive out, to ride your bicycle out or skateboard out.
11:01: There is absolutely no good reason. Yeah, if you want to rollerblade there, we'd be like, wow, rollerblade. But glad you're here.
11:09: So everyone stop. We'll bring you on stage and be like, we got senators. We got Republicans. We got everybody.
11:15: This guy's in rollerblades. He supports abolition. It's awesome. Yeah, everybody. Okay. So we need you to come. Russell's going to be there.
11:22: Luke's going to be there. Pastor Zach's going to be there. I'm going to be there. Marcus is going to be there. Carmen is coming with us.
11:28: So our team will be out there as well. And we want you to come join us. So if you are a believer who wants to see the establishment of justice for the preborn, we have an opportunity.
11:41: And I just got to say this. We have to be honest with ourselves. As much as I'd like to say, hey, man, all this year, we're going to have so many opportunities with good bills that are actually righteous and consistent bills that are going to establish justice.
11:53: I'd love to say that it's going to happen a lot, and we're going to be doing this a lot. But the answer, truly, at this stage is probably not a lot.
12:00: So limited opportunities in this year to actually have something that is consistent, that is meaningful, that can actually work and establish justice in the state of Oklahoma.
12:09: So I mean, here's what I'm offering. I mean, come. Come join us. If you're living in New York and you need a plane ticket, come.
12:15: Get a hotel. Come hang out with us. Get on your feet with us to speak prophetically to the legislators in Oklahoma and to the citizens of Oklahoma.
12:23: If you're in California, get some friends and drive. If you're in Nevada, same thing. If you're in Arizona, do the same thing.
12:29: Drive out to Oklahoma and meet us for Abolition Day, at least Abolition Day, at 10 a .m.,
12:35: Oklahoma City Capitol Building, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. We need you there. And, you know,
12:40: Luke, we just posted Luke's kind of call to this last night. We're going to post another one again today on a different platform.
12:48: And I think it was Luke and Zach were talking about we'd like to set a goal.
12:53: I don't know if we can do this, but we'd like to set a goal to have 10 ,000 people out there at the Capitol. Let's try to aim for that.
12:59: I mean, if we had 2 ,000 people, praise God. If we had, you know, 3 ,000 would be great. But let's try to get 10 ,000 people out there at the
13:06: Capitol, and let's make sure that the legislators understand that Christians are concerned with justice. And we see the inconsistencies at this point of the game in terms of the pro -life lobby and how they've pursued ending, not ending, regulating abortion.
13:19: The end is not in sight or even desired for some of these pro -life lobbies because they won't call it murder.
13:25: They're not looking to criminalize it. They don't want punishment or sanctions for it. And so we're going to talk a bit about that, and Russell's, I think, really going to help us.
13:31: But you look like you have something you want to say. I was just going to ask what that day is going to be like for those coming the
13:37: Abolition Day. Yeah, well, actually, I'll answer that. But the thing, some people, like maybe in Kansas or Texas or just the contiguous states, they're going to be like, well,
13:46: I don't live in Oklahoma. If you want abortion to be abolished in your state, it's weird.
13:51: But getting it abolished in one state is probably the most beneficial thing for your state.
13:57: Because we've got to get one state to sort of defy the Supreme Court and show that as a model, and then we'll just let the dominoes fall.
14:03: But that day, you know, we have parking. We don't have parking for 10 ,000 people.
14:11: You do, but you're going to have to walk. Walk. Quite a while. So the day could be, you know, difficult.
14:18: If you plan on showing up right at 10 a .m., you are going to be at the back of a very large crowd.
14:24: And, you know, we'll have big speakers and all that kind of stuff, so you'll be able to participate. But plan to not just be there at 10 a .m.
14:34: Try to be there at 9, 9 .30. And then also, we will probably run the rally with speakers.
14:40: We have representatives from, like, the Southern Baptist Convention, the Free Will Baptist, the Assemblies of God, all these different folks.
14:46: We have sheriffs that are going to be speaking on behalf. That's great. You know, sheriffs that say, hey, listen, I support
14:51: Senate Bill 13, and I will enforce it. That's so great, Russell. We've got a lot of great people talking, but we're going to try to do the rally just for about an hour, hour, hour and a half, if it goes over.
15:04: Because it is outside. There's nowhere to fit, you know, over 1 ,000, 2 ,000 people in the
15:11: Capitol. But we want to be seen outside as a large mass of people, supporters.
15:16: But then we will be going in. So at the immediate end of the rally, we'll be like, okay, these are the three entrances.
15:24: Pile in. Go talk to your—for the Oklahomans, go talk specifically to your senator, your representative.
15:30: Tell them about this bill. For the out -of -state folks, just go in there. Be seen.
15:35: Be part of the chanting. Hold the signs. Talk to people. Pass out your lit. All that kind of stuff. But the legislators, we just want them, when they're leaving, to see.
15:45: Just, this is not French. This is—the Church of God is actually here saying, establish justice.
15:52: So we'll be going in. And probably they're inside of the Capitol doing, you know, photos.
16:00: And that sort of—they'll probably be continuation rallies. Different people speaking inside of the
16:05: Capitol in various places. So it's going to be pretty much a whole day thing. Till 5.
16:10: Till 4. Legislators start to sort of saunter out around 4. But we don't want to just sort of have a party outside and then it's over.
16:19: We really want to be useful. Get inside there. We've developed a pamphlet that takes people through the various arguments and talking points against Senate Bill 13.
16:29: Criminalization is too harsh. You know, those sort of standard things. And so we need people to pass them out.
16:36: We need people to be engaging these guys. So are the legislators—are they going to be in session or in their offices?
16:41: Yeah. So legislators—this is the second week of the session. So they will be before lunch and after lunch in session talking about stuff, but not super important stuff.
16:55: You'll be able—I mean, I shouldn't say that. Maybe it's important. Not as important as the abolition of abortion. So they will be kind of in and out of session in their offices, but there will be sways of time where you can actually go in and speak to them.
17:07: You can actually page them out and say, hey, I need to talk to my legislator. He's on the floor. Well, you can send a note in and have them come out and say, hey,
17:15: I'm here for Abolition Day. You need to support Senate Bill 13. Senate Bill 13. Keep it in your minds and on your hearts and on your lips and make sure you tell everyone about it and Senate Bill 13.
17:25: If you guys are watching this right now on whatever platform, please, if you want to join with us in this movement, in this work, in this ministry, you need to share.
17:33: Let everybody know. This is a grassroots movement kind of a thing from the beginning, and especially with the industries that we're up against.
17:42: It takes us, the church, the people, actually spreading the word, getting the word out and participating.
17:47: So make sure you're sharing this to let people know and then come join us. Come stand next to me. Come stand next to Russell.
17:53: Come stand next to Luke. Come stand next to our pastors in Oklahoma as we pray for and we actually speak out for the establishment of justice in Oklahoma.
18:04: And I think Russell's exactly right. If we want abolition to take place in our particular state, it's going to have to take place probably.
18:12: There's going to be one brave state first that actually says us and we defy the federal government. So that brings me to this, and this is education time.
18:21: Russell, what do we need to educate people on? People are probably coming into this now, maybe new people to our channel.
18:27: They're hearing this for the first time. They're hearing us say things about the pro -life lobby not being consistent, not wanting to end abortion.
18:34: And they might think that we sound pretty tinfoil hat or fringe ourselves and saying, well, no, that's not true.
18:39: They're working to end abortion. And the answer is no, they're not actually. And, I mean, it sounds harsh.
18:46: That's the truth. It sounds crazy. Yeah, somebody might be like, I've been pro -life all my life.
18:52: What I mean by that is end abortion. And you're telling me now that the thing
18:58: I've been, like if they listen to the opening, they're like, I've been giving roses to these guys every year. Like you tell me
19:03: I'm doing a bad thing. And I'm like, well, you kind of are. You're encouraging them to not abolish abortion, but to do other things.
19:10: But it's not really about like the heart motive. Whenever I say pro -life or pro -life lobbyist or something like that, a lot of these people are good.
19:17: They want to do good things. They think in large part that they are doing something good, but they're being led away from abolition.
19:25: And in the state of Oklahoma, we really do have the situation where, I mean, I think in the Senate, it's 40
19:31: Republicans to eight Democrats. It's like 40. No kidding. It's insane. It should be like this.
19:39: It's super majority. If being pro -life meant criminalizing abortion, it would be over.
19:45: We wouldn't even need a rally. It'd be done. They would just do this. And the same in the House. And then we've got a governor who says,
19:50: I will sign any piece of legislation that sits on my desk that's anti -abortion. So all it has to do is get there.
19:56: This should just be a given. Like day one, let's abolish abortion in Oklahoma. House, Senate, Senate, House, governor's desk, signed, enforced.
20:04: That's how it should work. But instead, it's no, let's do these nine other pro -life bills.
20:13: In Oklahoma, they call them Rose Day bills. They're sort of like the officially sponsored sort of choose life bills.
20:19: And then, of course, Senate Bill 13 comes along and says, we're not trying to encourage people to choose life.
20:25: We're saying you shouldn't have a choice. That's a criminal act. You can't kill your baby. Yeah, you cannot kill your baby.
20:31: So I think a lot of it, and I'm glad you bring it up, I think a lot of it sounds a little harsh when you kind of tune in.
20:37: You're like, pro -life is bad. Well, in the state of Oklahoma, it's not Planned Parenthood killing the bill of abolition.
20:44: It's not the ACLU. Say that one more time because then people need to hear what you just said.
20:50: Yeah, because if they're listening in California or Washington, D .C., they're like, no, Planned Parenthood's a bad guy. But in Oklahoma, Planned Parenthood doesn't have to kill it.
20:59: ACLU doesn't have to kill it. They may step in if all these legislators pass Senate Bill 13, and we may have to deal with them.
21:06: But right now, it's Oklahomans for Life, National Right to Life, the various sort of pro -life ministries and organizations in the state who look at something like Senate Bill 13, which is calling for equal protection, justice, defiance of the
21:24: Roe v. Wade ruling, and they see something so radically different than what they've been calling for, and so they are the ones that oppose it.
21:32: It's not the ACLU sending a letter around to all the senators saying, don't support Senate Bill 13.
21:37: It's Oklahomans for Life sending a letter around saying, don't support Senate Bill 13. If you pass
21:42: Senate Bill 13, it'll undo our 72 -hour waiting period bill. Obviously.
21:48: Obviously. And for darn good reason. Yeah, but they say these bills save lives, and if you pass this bill, it'll make them all useless.
21:58: And so that is the situation we're facing. So from our context, the pro -life establishment, which is the phrase
22:06: I like to use, the pro -life lobby establishment, the people that have been pro -lifers for 47 years now, they're the ones that are opposing the abolition of abortion.
22:16: Okay, so why though? Why? Okay, let me put it this way.
22:24: The most common argument I hear from the pro -life establishment industry lobby is we can't have a state flex their state sovereignty or rights because Roe v.
22:35: Wade is law. Yeah, to quote Abby Johnson, one of the most well -known pro -life leaders, she literally says,
22:44: I don't support this bill of abolition because it is unconstitutional. They think that a state, yeah, like a state, asserting their state sovereignty to criminalize abortion within their borders is somehow unconstitutional because nine unelected appointed lawyers in Washington, D .C.
23:05: said back in 1972 or 73 that a woman has this fundamental right to terminate a pregnancy and that somehow you can find it in the pre -numbers of the
23:14: Constitution. So that was an unjust, unconstitutional Supreme Court opinion and all the states just sort of follow it.
23:21: And it's not law. It's not law. I mean, so what happens is they pass that, they have that opinion ruling and then in the states they start, the states that submit to the
23:34: Supreme Court start adding an exemption to do an abortion into their murder code.
23:39: Right, like Arizona has the same problem. It's that you have right now in Arizona, it is illegal to kill your child via abortion right now.
23:48: Currently, that's the law. But underneath the law are the updates from the pro -life movement. Yeah, as long as you jump through these pro -life hoops, you can kill your baby.
23:57: So like a lot of people think that Senate Bill 13 is this bad bill because it's a long bill, but it goes through and it has to repeal all of these pro -life regulations.
24:05: Say we criminalized abortion and we removed the statute, sort of the exception, the allowance to murder a child through abortion that's in our murder code.
24:15: We remove that. The abortionist says, listen, I've got like 27 laws here that say
24:20: I can perform an abortion. I can perform an abortion if I'm within such a proximity to a hospital or I have visiting privileges or if I use this kind of instrument and not this kind of instrument.
24:32: What are you telling me? I can't perform an abortion. I've got all these laws. And all those laws are passed by pro -lifers, celebrated, funded by people who thought they were doing good.
24:41: So we have to repeal them or supersede them. Yeah, and it's like that in pretty much any state that has had a pro -life movement.
24:51: We're being asked if the personhood movement is behind this bill. I can't speak to what, if that's a collective movement and whether they're behind the bill.
25:02: It isn't a personhood bill. There is a, it's sort of, it may get a little, I don't know, nerdy to distinguish a personhood bill from an abolition bill.
25:12: Like an abolition bill explicitly criminalizes abortion as murder. So it actually states, you know, life begins at conception.
25:22: There are no exceptions for abortion. And we are going to criminalize the act of murdering another human being.
25:29: A personhood bill sort of goes implicit, sort of like we're going to say that the preborn human in the womb is a person from the moment of conception.
25:37: And then implicitly that ought to lead to a ban of abortion. Now I don't, the law,
25:44: I don't think the law works that way. And neither do people who write laws. Laws are supposed to prohibit acts.
25:50: Yeah. And so I think a lot of personhood folks will love this bill, support this bill. And I certainly know a lot of people who are longtime advocates of personhood ideology.
26:02: And what they would appreciate about it is life begins at conception. There's no exceptions for abortion.
26:09: Abortion is being criminalized. It's doing it against the court and that we're repealing these pro -life laws that allow it.
26:16: The difference there is that a personhood bill is trying to sort of comply with the Supreme Court.
26:22: The Supreme Court said, if it can be shown that the baby in the womb is a person, then we have a problem.
26:27: Right. An abolition bill styled more like, listen, you don't get to decide who is and is not a person,
26:34: Supreme Court. Here in the state of Oklahoma, we're not going to allow mothers and fathers to choose whether their children live and die.
26:40: Yeah. Because it's a thou shalt not murder bill, not a life is precious and babies are persons bill.
26:47: Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. And you please don't kill love kind of terminology like was being propagated in Ireland because of the national right to life, because the pro -life movement.
26:58: Do you anticipate your buddy Tony Lounger being there? Yeah, he's totally going to be there.
27:03: All right. You can beat him face to face. Face to face. He's not going to be there for it. Although I do have a funny story about Tony Lounger.
27:10: Okay, if we can do it. Yeah. So following Senate Bill 13 and all the support for it, the grassroots
27:18: Republicans, like a lot of hardworking folks that just sort of go into all the little counties and precincts and stuff, they put forward an amendment to the party platform in Oklahoma.
27:30: And they said, we want to amend the Republican Party platform to be very explicit. Abortion should be abolished as murder.
27:37: And so they get that petition, they put it all around and then they meet for the Republican Party platform writing committee to pass these resolutions.
27:46: And the thing just passes like hugely popularly whenever all the just regular grassroots Republican folks are like, yeah, that's what we want to do.
27:52: Let's abolish abortion, you know? Well, of course, Tony Lounger is seriously opposed.
27:59: Vice President of National Rights to Life. Yeah, I assume your leaders, your hearers know this, but yeah,
28:04: Tony Lounger, kind of the main pro -life lobbyist in Oklahoma. He's sitting in the room, probably a part of the group that doesn't want this happening.
28:14: He's like, oh my gosh, it's shifting to abolition. Well, after they pass this, some guy, you know, another older gentleman stands up in the
28:24: Republican convention room and just says he wants to make a motion to recognize Tony Lounger and all of his work that he's done over the years to make this resolution possible.
28:37: And the whole room is like, they start clapping for him, like thanking him, because they don't know.
28:43: They're just good people. They're thinking pro -life means abolition. Get rid of it. And they think that that's what
28:49: Tony's working. And this is like the fruition of his work. And poor Tony stands up and kind of, you know, does the...
28:57: Oh, no. Like accepts the praise for this thing, which he's opposing. Oh, no. And so it's this awkward thing.
29:03: And then Senator Silk told me that after people are leaving and going home and stuff, Tony Lounger comes over and he's like, yeah, we should probably talk.
29:11: Oh, no. I had to be so embarrassed. I know. And thankfully, the abolitionists who are working this thing didn't stand up and be like, no!
29:21: Because it's so much funnier. They kept themselves balanced. They just let him take the credit, which is kind of what we're going to have to...
29:26: Wow. Amazing. And so people understand, there's some videos that might help you. So this is...
29:31: Don't go there now, but just later on, go and check some videos out. Look up Tony Lounger. And I think if you do both
29:38: Tony Lounger and Russell Hunter or Tony Lounger and Rusty Thomas, you'll see some cell phone camera footage.
29:46: Is that what it was? I think I'm literally holding like a mini GoPro. That might be it. Yeah. But it's not great quality.
29:52: You need to see it because when a bill was being put forward to criminalize abortion in Oklahoma, the person who was opposing it was the vice president of National Rights of Life.
30:01: So I'm going to let that hang for a second because it doesn't make any sense putting that together. National Rights of Life, one of the largest pro -life organizations on the planet.
30:11: It's working in other countries too. I'm messing things up a lot. By the way, but he stops a bill to criminalize and end outright abortion in Oklahoma, the vice president of National Rights of Life.
30:25: So at the Capitol building that day, Russell was there, Rusty was there, a number of other people, and they got a chance to sort of engage with them.
30:32: It'd be good for you if you're skeptical about what we're saying right now about the pro -life industry and their methodology.
30:38: It would be good for you to actually hear it and see it yourself. So it's not you just taking our word for it.
30:44: Go listen to it. Go examine it. And then we were aware that Russell was doing that. We're praying for them, watching
30:51: Rusty, seeing that stuff come up. And so we said, let's try to get Tony Lowinger on the phone. Let's see if he'll talk to us.
30:57: But he didn't know who we were. And so he just heard there was an opportunity for an interview and he was like, yeah,
31:03: I'll do it. So he comes in and it was within a couple of hours, I think, we've even seen. It was either right before or right after.
31:09: Yeah, it was like right. It was all in that same moment. It was probably before we'd even posted the video.
31:14: I think that's, yeah. I mean, because I think that, you know, we had intercepted his letter and we put it up on Facebook or something.
31:23: That's what it was. That's what it was. We saw the letter. And then we all kind of like, what the heck is this? We're going to call this guy.
31:28: And so you had him on that night. Yeah. And so what we said was, we're just going to let him talk.
31:34: And we went into the discussion with him saying, let's do this in a way where we ask the questions and let him just sort of spill his position.
31:44: So rather than getting into a war with Tony, we said, we want him to actually have on record, this is my position.
31:51: This is what I believe. Hey, Tony, here's a rope. Yeah. So all we did was say, let's just ask the questions like a proper interview and journalist kind of thing.
31:58: Like you don't think abortion is murder, do you? And no, no, no, we're not working for that. And would you say the abortionist is guilty of murder?
32:06: No, you know, it's a fine line, but you know, no, but basically he's like, no, so not the woman, not the abortionist.
32:12: And then they're not working towards the end of abortion. He confesses to that. He says, they can't essentially go against row.
32:18: And then I ask him explicit questions about, is this a Christian movement? Do you want to use Christian language?
32:24: Do you want to say things like put your faith in Jesus and repent of sin kind of a thing? And he said, no, they want to take a backdoor approach.
32:31: So he confesses that they don't believe it's murder. They're not trying to criminalize it.
32:36: And they are explicitly not a Christian organization and they will not use Christian language.
32:41: They want to take a quote, backdoor approach, vice president, national right to life. And if you think that is some strange part of national right to life, just Tony's just got a weird position.
32:51: Then go watch babies are still murdered here and listen to Tobias. And one of the other ladies, one of the largest organizations call women victims and say that they're victims of abortion.
33:03: They talk about abortion in terms of it's my abortion experience. Not as a Christian would say that are working with free the
33:10: States or with an abortion now or operation save America, where you have
33:16: Christian women going up and saying, I murdered my child. When I was 19 years old, I killed my baby and I've repented of that.
33:22: God has saved me now, but I murdered my baby. Why? Why is it? You have women that know Jesus that have, have been saved, understand and recognize the reality of the sin and just be willing to say,
33:32: I murdered my child. But then you go over here to the pro -life movement and they're drawing women in saying, no, you're a victim, sweetheart.
33:39: Yeah. Forgive yourself. Yeah. Forgive what society did to you. Exactly. And, and that's like, that's the, that's the
33:44: MO. That's where they're going. And I got to say, we're not seeing the end of abortion. We are not seeing the end of abortion by following the pro -life lobby and the pro -life movement.
33:54: Now I do believe Russell and Luke, I do believe that as God moves within this movement, a gospel centered,
33:59: Christian consistent movement for justice, the pro -life movement will have to follow. Yeah.
34:05: They have to follow, but only because they're now caught on the tail of those who are
34:10: Christians as the church of the living God fighting against this issue. And they, listen, abortion is not going to be ended because the pro -life lobby as it stands, right.
34:20: When they become abolitionists, when they actually become Christian, when they start being consistent, establishing justice, that's right.
34:26: Then we're getting there, but they're not ending abortion as the pro -life lobby or industry. It will only be because of the movement of Christians trying to establish justice, criminalization, abolition, all the rest.
34:37: That's, that's, that's how it's going to end. I was just gonna say, I don't know if you know this, Russ, the end abortion now was birthed during that interview.
34:43: That day. Yeah. While he, while he was talking to Tony, cause we had been talking when we saw that letter, like we gotta do something else.
34:49: Right. Unbelievable. He's talking to Tony and then Marcus and I were in the other room, remember? Searching for URLs. Yes. And we're like, what about end abortion now?
34:56: Like there's no way that's available. It's available. Literally, Jeff gets on the interview. We're like, guess what?
35:02: Yeah. We just bought an abortion now. How crazy is it that in 45 years or whatever it was, 43 years, whenever this happened, that the, the
35:08: URL end abortion now is available. It's not. It's like the pro -life movement. Didn't buy that one. Yeah, exactly.
35:14: Go, go try to find a choose life. Yeah. Arizona. Exactly. Exactly.
35:20: But it is, it is interesting. And I, I can, I want to express this. I know you don't want any praise at all, but I have to say how powerful this is that you have very small organizations, just Christians trying to work to establish justice that have shoestring budgets, have almost nothing in comparison to the tens of millions of dollars raised by even single organizations in the pro -life industry and, and lobby.
35:48: And the, so I want this to encourage you. The, the amount of work that has been done and the fruit that is happening, say in Oklahoma from a small huddle of very faithful believers who are speaking the truth with almost no money is incredible.
36:06: And it has outdone the millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars that have poured and are pouring in through the pro -life industry and movements in just Oklahoma itself.
36:17: And so just think about that. Christians stand for truth, speak the truth, speak prophetically. And then
36:22: God moves and he brings movements like this that actually work. It's like, it's a real consistent thing.
36:30: So, so the reason I'm saying that is praise God for Russell, for all the, all the people that are working with you that are working this and doing this,
36:36: Senator, Senator Silk. But this is the call, please come be a part of this.
36:42: Cause you might be thinking, man, this is a monstrosity. Like this thing is giant. It's a Goliath. And okay. Yeah, sure.
36:49: But, I mean, not to be pithy or anything, but like you can, you can end this.
36:55: We can end this, but it takes the church and it takes the gospel and it takes the truth of God.
37:01: It really, really does. And so you have to be there. You have to be a part of it. You can't just say, man, I'm really praying for the end of abortion and great.
37:07: And listen, send money to free the States. Do that. Send money to end abortion now so we can labor and we can turn the lights on and we could do what we're doing fine.
37:15: But you know what? Honestly, right now, get to Oklahoma. Don't send a penny. Don't take any dollar in the penny to get there.
37:23: Take every dollar that you would have say sent to a pro -life organization or to free the States or to an abortion now.
37:28: And right now use that money to get to Oklahoma to be on your feet. So how do you like, how do you like them apples?
37:35: You have Christian saying to you, don't send me a penny, nothing right now, hold off any financial support for the moment and just get to Oklahoma to actually stand with us.
37:44: That's more important, more meaningful right now than anything you could send to help financially. So, yeah,
37:50: I totally agree. Yep. Break time. It's break time. Okay. So stay with us cause we have more to say.
37:55: And I do want, since we have Russell here in studio, I do want to, to try to take everything we can from him in terms of education and, and helping everybody understand what all this looks like.
38:04: So don't go anywhere. We're taking a quick break. Some commercials will come right back. We're going to have some more discussion just about what is abolitionism?
38:13: What does it mean? What are the distinctions? And I'm going to maybe throw some questions at you that are coming up in the feed here.
38:20: And stuff you have already engaged with before. Like what about if the life of the mother is at risk? Those sorts of things.
38:25: Cause those are, those are going to come up, especially with a bill to criminalize. Right. Okay. So stay with us guys. We'll be right back.
38:30: We're going to talk more about the issue of abolition and the criminalization of abortion, establishing justice. We will be right back right here at Apologia Radio.
38:38: Apologia Studios .com is where you guys are going to go to get more. Make sure you guys stick around.
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40:01: I want their faith to not just be something that stands, but something around which culture can be built.
40:08: We want students who can think critically about arguments, but also about the culture around them, that can then speak clearly to it, and that also have the ability to influence and shape because of the power of their message, because that's really what the gospel does.
40:22: The gospel throws down all the arguments against it, it speaks to the hearts of people, it influences, and it changes.
40:35: The goal for New St. Andrews College, as it trains its students, is not to make people who will be able to go out and just get jobs, people who will just be bricks in the wall of our society.
40:49: The goal for New St. Andrews College is to make students into men and women who will really impact culture.
42:45: And you partner with us in ministry, bringing the gospel around the world. Welcome back everybody to Apologia Radio.
42:51: Get more at ApologiaStudios .com A -P -O -L -O -G -I -A -Studios .com Go to EndAbortionNow .com
42:57: to get your church signed up to join with other Christians bringing the gospel to their abortion mills, of course, saving lives, preaching the gospel, but also bringing the gospel and the demand for justice to the legislature.
43:10: EndAbortionNow .com is where you guys go to get free training, free resources, it's not going to cost you anything, we want nothing from you, just sign up with your church, we'll get free training, free resources, we will give you everything you need and join together with you to participate in the cause of justice for the pre -born.
43:27: Also, go to Freethestates .org or .com, get all the information there about how you can get connected to Russell, to his team, get all the information there about Abolition Day, look at the event schedule,
43:40: I'm sure they'll be posted soon around there, I was looking for it, I couldn't find it, I'm there. Yeah, it's actually on the registration page is where we're going to put it and then emailing it to people who are registered, but we'll make it public.
43:51: Okay, so go register there and then meet us, meet us in Oklahoma, if you're not going to go to the full conference thing over the days leading up to the
43:59: Abolition Day, come and meet us, Oklahoma City Capitol Building, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, 10 a .m.
44:05: is when all the things start, Russell's right, it's very important for you guys, I would say actually I've been there, you should get there early and because you'll probably be walking a lot, which is okay,
44:16: I mean I'll walk with you if necessary, like just get there. As we said before we went to commercial break, right now it's about you being there, so some of you guys are saying in comments like how can
44:26: I support financially, those sorts of things, you know what, it'd be great if you could just take those finances and just be a part of what's happening in Oklahoma, just stand there with us.
44:35: Or find somebody who can be there, say someone like literally can't, they just can't get out of work, make a post and say hey, somebody wanting to go to Oklahoma and just can't get there, you need help with a hotel room or something like that, post about it, say that you're willing to help sponsor because it is a numbers people game, we need lots of people there.
44:56: That's right, anything you want to say? I was going to ask, are you anticipating a lot of pro -aborts there as well, kind of protesting do you think?
45:06: Well, in 2019 we had 800 to 1 ,000 people there supporting the bill and there were pro -aborts but no one even remembers them.
45:17: I'm sure they'll show up and they'll do their thing but they'll just be so, but if you're into sort of evangelizing pro -aborts that show up with their signs and stuff like that, it's a great opportunity.
45:29: It's a great opportunity, fantastic. Okay, so people are going to ask these questions now, they'll say, okay, so this is a bill to criminalize, to abolish abortion, proper definitions, and then even we're talking about sanctions, like we're talking about penalties for the issue of abortion.
45:44: So people will ask the common questions, these are like the low -level things but they will come automatically, they'll say, what about the instances of rape or incest or life of the mother?
45:53: So we're saying criminalize even for that? Yeah, I mean I think the heart of this bill and really any abolition bill, one of the things about freethestates .org,
46:05: there's a document on that, it's a webpage on there where it's like these are the five things that we as a legislative lobbying organization, these are the five components that we look for before we endorse a bill and one of those is sort of establishing equal justice and protection.
46:24: So whatever the laws are in a state against murdering people, they need to be applied equally to murdering born and unborn people.
46:33: And so the bill doesn't have to go into sort of this is what the punishment will be or this is that, because that's all already written in a state.
46:42: So like some states have death penalties and some don't, and so that could be an issue.
46:48: But for instance in Oklahoma, it's just saying, listen, in our murder code there's a statute that says that you can murder a child through illegal abortion.
46:59: Let's remove that. And so when you remove that and you say no, you cannot murder a child through illegal abortion, that is murder and you properly define abortion as ending the life of a human being at any stage of development from the moment there's a human being.
47:15: So we're talking from the moment of conception, fertilization, it doesn't matter, preimplantation, it doesn't matter if you're in the womb or if you're in a
47:23: Petri dish. It's just like you cannot, if there's a human there, you cannot intentionally destroy them.
47:29: Say that's a human being, they'll fall under the same protections as the laws against murder for all other people. And so a lot of the questions that are like, well, what about this case, that case, this situation?
47:40: The law is already there for that. Like there's already a law. Like a pregnant mother is in a car crash and then she's rushed to the hospital and the doctor's sitting there and he's like, he's got to operate on a pregnant.
47:54: Well, it's a terrible, awful situation. This isn't a woman who's decided to murder her child.
48:00: Yes. In the process of this, if the baby dies, there would probably be some kind of looking into it.
48:06: Was there negligence to the doctor? Just like they do in any kind of medical triage situation, but they're not going to be like, oh, that doctor, he's a murderer.
48:14: Right. You know, it's in, so it's, it is written. There are concessions like that, that, that are already within the law.
48:21: So you don't have to sort of put in an abolition bill, you know, there, you know, this, this, this, this, this, you know, so you rightly defined abortion as the intentional destruction of a pre -born human being.
48:33: Then someone says, what about miscarriage? Well, miscarriage is, is an unfortunate situation that follows from the fall of man.
48:42: That's not the intentional destruction. That's a grieving, like, so I've got two children and we've lost from miscarriage.
48:48: I'm not supporting a bill to punish us for that. Right. We didn't want those, those children to die.
48:53: That was, that was a painful thing. But so those kinds of questions, they're good, they're helpful.
48:59: But this law is just saying, listen, the law that protects you from being murdered, you from, you know, being, you know, you can't walk down the street and just murder somebody.
49:08: That should be the same for, for pre -born babies. All of this seems like it should be so patently obvious.
49:14: Right. Protect human life consistently. So what, well, okay. So help people with this.
49:22: What are the similarities or parallels between the situation we're facing now with pre -born children in the womb and what we're facing in the 19th century with blacks in the slave trade?
49:34: What, what are we seeing a similar maybe argumentation? People are saying things like you can't go against the order of a court, those sorts of things.
49:42: Yeah. What are we seeing? Well, the, we would be doing a six hour program if we were going into the, all the historical analogies and similarities.
49:51: But I mean the, the big ones, of course, you know, you have your standard my body, my choice. You know, if you don't want to have an abortion, don't get one.
49:59: That, that sort of stuff that the pro -abortion folks use today. Of course they use that back then.
50:04: This is my plantation. This is my prerogative. Like you don't have to own slaves. You don't like slavery. You don't have to own slaves.
50:10: So you have a lot of that from just the people who are pro -slavery against the people who are anti -slavery. But in the 19th century, the, by and large, people in the
50:20: North that were anti -slavery, they looked at slavery and they said, we have to get rid of this.
50:27: But they preferred to do it gradually. You know, they didn't want to do it overnight. Because if we, if we abolish slavery overnight, what are we going to do with all these black people?
50:34: And they were racist. Like, oh, they're going to be, they're going to be marrying our daughters, you know? So we got to do it gradually and we need to do it as we deport them, you know, send them back to Africa, send them to the library.
50:45: So you have this sort of like focus on gradualism, focus on colonization, which is sort of like, you know, making sure that people choose whatever.
50:53: And then instead of like what the abolitionists wanted to criminalize slavery and make it, you know, no, you don't have the right to own people.
51:02: The gradual anti -slavery people said, listen, we need to encourage slave owners to voluntarily manumit, voluntarily free their slaves.
51:13: And then the government should sort of compensate them. So you say, well, is that analogous to today?
51:19: Yes, it is. You look at the pro -life movement. They actually encourage people to choose life, to choose to put their, put their children up for adoption, choose, choose, choose voluntarily, all this kind of stuff.
51:30: And then pro -life organizations like, and then there were none where it's like, they're trying to get abortionist new jobs, you know?
51:36: So it's all voluntary and all it and all this sort of thing, because the main thing that's difference between like an abolitionist and a non abolitionist is this abortion is sin.
51:46: It should be abolished. It's a crime. It's a capital crime according to the law of God, right?
51:52: Slavery is sin. It's a crime. It's a capital crime. According to the law of God, man stealing is a capital crime. And so you have the majority doesn't want to criminalize an evil act.
52:03: And the sort of minority, I say the minority biblical worldview type folks say criminalization.
52:10: And someone says, well, that's so harsh. Well, we are preaching the gospel at the same time, right?
52:15: It's like, we're telling them both sides. Yeah. There is forgiveness for the sin of abortion, but that doesn't mean it ought to be illegal.
52:23: There's forgiveness for the sin of human slavery, but that doesn't mean it should be legal. There's forgiveness for rape.
52:30: There really is. I mean, you know, there's forgiveness for murdering born people, but that doesn't mean it ought to be legal.
52:35: Right. Because the law is to be a tutor that establishes justice and equal protection. We were just talking about that a couple weeks ago.
52:43: Just the difference between sin and crime and how Christians tend to conflate the two.
52:51: There are things in scripture that are sins, but not crimes. And there are things in scripture that are sins and crimes.
52:56: And God speaks to those issues in his law as to what you should do when something is a sin and a crime.
53:04: And so we have had that discussion about Christians being inconsistent. All of us, at some point, are inconsistent somewhere in our theology.
53:13: But this is a really bad area to be inconsistent. And we're not consistent in this area because, you know,
53:20: Christians will recognize that the child molester that just repented of his sin and turned to Christ and was saved still will have to face the police officers chasing him through the back door.
53:31: They're going to cuff him, and nobody smacks the hand of the officer and says, you ought to not do that.
53:36: He's a believer now. He's saved in Jesus. Everybody goes, yeah, he's saved, but he's going to pay for it.
53:42: He's going to face justice. So in the issue of abortion, we're saying it's not just a sin, it's a crime.
53:48: It's a sin and a crime. And that's the way that it would be defined according to scripture. That's the way it should be defined by the code of law.
53:56: In every state. And so I love what Russell just explained there, that the issues related to, like, well, what should the punishment be are really something that's, like, that's down the road, and that's for the state.
54:09: I have my own particular view in terms of what's right and what's just. But what this does is establishes consistent standards.
54:16: Instead of human being, you can't take the life of a human being in an unjustified manner, period, wherever it's at, in the womb, out of the womb.
54:23: And that's law, so it's a criminal act. And then the states can decide after that, do we need reform in the areas of penalty for murder?
54:30: Okay, all that stuff will come down the road. Right now we're saying it's a murderous act. Stop it immediately.
54:36: And I think that a lot of us, I know this might seem pithy to some people, or maybe even cavalier.
54:42: I hope not. But if we had legislation building against, say, sex trafficking, like, nobody, why?
54:54: How come nobody would want to take an incremental approach to sex trafficking? You know what
55:00: I'm saying? Like, what if you had a legislator coming up and saying, you know, we're going to ban all sex trafficking for children, you know, 13 and under.
55:10: Everyone would go, are you? Why are you doing that? Just say that it's illegal to steal another human being and to rape them, or to engage in that sort of thing.
55:19: Why are you saying there has to be an age? Everybody would go, are you foolish?
55:27: Like, what's not working in your head? Like, this is a sinful criminal thing. Stop it, and don't allow it, and punish these guys severely.
55:36: But then all of a sudden we see the change of our heart and our minds and our culture, even Christians, even pro -life
55:41: Christians, that we go, well, yeah, I think it's killing a human being, and I think it's murder deep down.
55:46: But, you know, if we could work our way, if we could just work our way. Whereas I think the consistent Christian position that glorifies
55:52: God, read Isaiah 1, 2, 10, all through the scriptures. The Bible. The Bible.
55:57: Just say God demands pure worship and rejects worship where we are turning a blind eye to the injustices around us, and he particularly names the fatherless, right?
56:13: And, like, not caring for those who can't protect themselves. And actually, if you read
56:19: Isaiah 1 and 2, I hope it cuts you deep. This is where God's essentially saying to his people, like, don't even bring it.
56:24: I don't want it. I don't want to hear it. Stop it. Stop all this vain stuff. Why? Because look at what you're doing.
56:31: You won't establish justice. So he says to his people, turn from evil. You know, he says seek to do good.
56:36: Seek justice. Establish justice. All this fatherless children, widows. Like, that's all in the context of forgiveness and worship, but what does he say?
56:43: He says, like, okay, so turn from this and start doing this. And so I just don't think that we have come to grips with what many
56:52: Christians throughout the ages have come to grips with, and that's that God does care about what happens in this world and justice in this life.
57:00: Right. Yeah, and I think that it might hurt some people's feelings or whatever to hear this, but if you want to say, well, why is it that we think rightly about sex trafficking and we would never do incrementalism for this or that or whatever, well, it's because there's been decades of misinformation that's been taught, you know, oftentimes preached from pulpits and, you know, it's declared from the
57:27: March for Life podiums. Like, this misinformation and these ideas that I think
57:32: Christians have just been sort of unthinkingly adopting. And so now we find ourselves so far away from what
57:39: God would have us do, and you're saying, like, why did this person think? Like, why does someone think it's good to protect a baby only after they feel pain?
57:47: Like, where did they get that idea? Like, people are made in the image of God. Why is it that we say things like abortion is wrong because it stops a beating heart?
57:56: Like, where do we get that idea? It's not Genesis 9 -6 is like, you know, prohibiting the murdering of beating heart possessors.
58:08: Yeah. It's image of God possessors. And so it's like, where did they get these unbiblical ideas? They've been taught to march to them.
58:15: They've been sold shirts that have those things on them. And so it's this cultural education of all this unbiblical, you know, trash.
58:25: I mean, it's just unbiblical stuff. And the reason I want to call it what it is and say that it's evil is because it does, whenever that replaces a biblical worldview, people die.
58:35: Yeah. And fatherless children become prey whenever we pass laws that don't protect them.
58:41: Very good. And I was going to say, I think the difference between abortion and, say, sex trafficking, like the example you brought up, is the children that are stolen and sold into sex trafficking are wanted children.
58:55: The same goes if it's a child molester. That was a wanted child. Yeah. Right. And so when it's abortion, they don't want these kids, and they don't have to face these kids.
59:04: They don't have to see them and get rid of them before ever having to even look at them. And that's the difference, really, when it comes to, you know, you brought up that question, like, why do we want to criminalize one immediately and one not the other?
59:17: Yeah. I mean, at the heart of it, it's our culture's view of children. Like, I mean, it's just what we think about children and why we like them.
59:25: We don't see them as gifts from God. We see them as sort of, you know, we choose them, we design them, we select them.
59:32: Like, I mean, people say, well, you know, I'm pro -life, and yada, yada, yada, and I'm doing
59:39: IVF. That's how pro -lifers kill babies. It's in vitro fertilization. And it's because the whole view is opposite.
59:46: It's like children are our possessions. They're not gifts. They're not fellow image bearers, and they're not neighbors.
59:54: So, I mean, someone says, well, like, okay, outside of all this law and this legislative stuff, like, what's the different perspective? We see the pre -born child as a neighbor and a fellow image bearer, and it's kind of like, okay, my fellow image bearer and neighbor is being murdered, you know, in sort of the place of the incarnation, in the womb of woman, and it's happening twice a minute, every minute of every day.
01:00:15: You're like, okay, I'm a Christian. I want to go be Christian today. Well, I'm going to love God with all my heart, soul, and mind, and love my neighbor as myself.
01:00:23: Well, my neighbor, who's made in the image of God, is being murdered down there. That's why you guys are always encouraging the church to go to these child sacrifice centers.
01:00:32: So it's thinking about the child as a neighbor, and then thinking kind of golden rule -esque, like what would
01:00:38: I want done for me if I were in the womb appointed for death? Would I want laws being put forward to protect me only after I reach 20 weeks?
01:00:49: No, I'd want them protecting me at eight weeks. So it's a golden rule sort of version of protecting children versus the world.
01:00:56: Powerful stuff. Freethestates .org or .com. Make sure you guys go, get connected, get signed up.
01:01:03: Join with us in Oklahoma. Come stand next to us in Oklahoma. We're going to be there, Lord willing. We have our tickets.
01:01:09: We're booked. We're ready to go. We're going to be there, trying to give as much support to Russell and his team as possible and to get the word out.
01:01:17: And so what you can do right now, first thing you do is click a button, like, share, all that stuff.
01:01:22: That's how this stuff gets spread. The platforms see that activity and they start recommending, sharing, those sorts of things.
01:01:28: So that's what you can do right now. Get the word out about what's happening in Oklahoma and then come join us.
01:01:35: February 11th, 10 a .m. is the, you must be there for this. But be there before that.
01:01:41: Again, freethestates .com .org. Go there, check out how you can get registered and sort of the schedule will be up soon where you'll know what's happening each day.
01:01:50: We're going to be there. Come hang with us. Come talk with us. Come pray with us. But most importantly, bring your feet and your hands, your heart and the gospel with you to Oklahoma, 10 a .m.,
01:02:00: Oklahoma City, Capitol Building, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. That's a lot of Oklahomas. And be there.
01:02:06: Be there. It's the center of the world. That's right. That's right. One of the most important things that can kick the year off, happening right now at the beginning of the year,
01:02:13: February, this can create, I believe, a shockwave of biblical proportions, gospel proportions across the country where you have people finally stand up and say, no,
01:02:25: I'm not going to listen to that iniquitous decree. I'm not going to believe that, buy that, uphold that. And here's the thing.
01:02:30: Look, we're already doing it. California's doing it. Oregon's doing it. Washington's doing it. Nevada's doing it. Arizona's doing it.
01:02:37: I'm not sure if Oklahoma's doing it. Marijuana. There's a federal law, like an actual federal law.
01:02:44: And the states are like... Yeah, there's also a Supreme Court ruling. That's right. So Supreme Court ruling and federal law, and then the states go, no, not listening to that.
01:02:53: And so you posted something the other day I loved. By the way, I love your artwork. We need to hire him on to make artwork for us, by the way.
01:03:00: You had a picture of a baby in front of a marijuana leaf.
01:03:06: It was up on the page, and it said, if we loved children as much as we love marijuana, abortion would be abolished.
01:03:13: That's right. Because that's the truth. Because that's what we're doing. So there are other things happening in the background right now that we can't announce or Russell can't announce right now publicly.
01:03:26: All I will just say to you right now as Christians, pray for those things. The Lord knows. Pray for courage and pray for the really big blessings of justice that can be established like that in Oklahoma.
01:03:38: And so come show up. I know I keep saying it, but come and meet us in Oklahoma. Do what you can to get there.
01:03:44: Sell your shirt, sell your shoes, sell your old CDs. Sell some pot. Whatever you've got to do.
01:03:50: Well, if you're in California, it's possible. Do what you've got to do. Sell something so you guys can come and join us.
01:03:57: We want 10 ,000 people to be with us in Oklahoma, so let's make it happen. Have it. All right. Russell Hunter.
01:04:03: Luke DeBeer. I'm Jeff. They call me the Ninja. We'll catch you guys next time right here on The Gospel Heard Around the World. Apology of Radio Guys.