Who Do Mormons Worship?

Or that reflects my understanding of what the church teaches. So we use the word Jesus but like you said you disagree. So one of the concerns that we have for you as Latter-day Saints is there's a test of a prophet.

The Test of a Prophet in Deuteronomy 13

In Deuteronomy 13 chapter 13 it basically says this. If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams comes among you and he has miracles and signs like the fruit looks good looks legit right. But he leads you after other gods that you don't know then he's a false prophet.

So in just that one thought experiment just that one question can you see how there's a difference between what I would say.

About Jesus and what you would say. Yeah. No I haven't. Okay. Yeah it's like we don't actually experience or see like God it's like Jesus taking or like.

Giving glory. Right. So on that. No there's another one for you to consider. Joseph taught that God became a god and that you can become one too if you're faithful right. Like you got a temple get get endowed and there to the end all that kind of stuff.

Isaiah 43 and the Exclusivity of God

But in Isaiah 43 10 says that before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. So what we see there is there's a collision between what Joseph Smith taught and what the Bible taught.

Yeah it.

Gets messy with the interpretations for sure. Well what would you say. What would you say. The valid interpretation. I am not well read enough of the Bible. Okay so I just quoted it. What do you think about it.

No I mean it says a lot of what.

You say makes sense. Do you think it's a contradiction. A little bit okay. So how.

Do we figure out who's right. Experiences. Really life. Yeah honestly. Okay. Because I feel like the right person can convince you of the wrong thing. So I feel like.

Just everyone has to be their own judge. Interesting. Okay let me ask you this. There's a guy in Siberia his name is Vasari on he claims to be Jesus in the flesh reincarnated. He's written 17 volumes of Scripture.

He leads a church called the Church of the Last Testament. Wow. So the question I would have for you is very similar on those credentials. Could you acknowledge that he is Jesus.

Christ really okay so I can see why that but but can they both be right is.

The question and both what Joseph Smith taught with temples and all this because the Vasari on guy he doesn't acknowledge these right. He doesn't teach him he doesn't build temples and stuff. So the question is if we say who's like right and you said experiences there's like 10 ,000 people that live up there they built like their own private community of mountains.

Pretty intense right. But but they seriously believe that he's Jesus just like you guys seriously believe in the validity of the temple and all that kind of stuff. So how would.

You like settle it. I wouldn't say. I think there's truth in a lot of religions. Yeah. I think people could sit around arguing about what is the one true like all day. There's gonna be a different of opinions.

Truth Claims, the First Vision, and the Church of the Devil

And what was your name. By the way I'm Craig. Great. I was like I should get this guy's. Yeah yeah yeah. I mean what we believe you know as Latter-day Saints is that there's truth in a lot of churches.

Because there's pieces of truth. But don't you guys also.

Believe you're the one true church and everyone else's of the church of the devil. Not necessarily. That's what it says in DNC one and Nephi.

There's a lot of terminology that is a little extreme and out of the times so.

You don't agree with that. I have to read that because in second Nephi I was reading it extreme. Well that's what it says. In second Nephi it says that there's two churches the church of the lamb and the church of the devil and it calls it the great abominable church the whore of all the earth.

You know. Like pretty extreme language but if you're making an ex like an exclusive truth claim I don't have a problem with that. Like I think we can. Like just be frank about. Right. Like yeah your church teaches it.

Okay. Yeah. You know I wouldn't say every other churches like up the devil though. Right. But what in the first vision that Joseph Smith got. What. What did God tell him all the churches are.

Wrong. Yeah right. So wouldn't you then to settle the collision. Wouldn't you appeal.

To like the first vision and be like well despite what this guy says can't be true because Joseph Smith got the revelation as a Latter-day Saint wouldn't you. Just wouldn't you appeal to that. Maybe would that be fair.

Okay. So in a similar way I would point to the scriptures and I would say that the scriptures kind of transcend time and person where you know I could die today. My opinion doesn't matter. Right. It won't matter tomorrow.

Won't matter in a year. But God's Word has persisted through the ages and it doesn't change. So when God's Word says that there were no gods before him and that there won't be any after you can rest in that because that's timeless truth.

Deuteronomy 13 and the Warning Against False Prophets

But when you have someone who comes along and contradicts it that's how you know according to God's standards that there are false prophets. So if if Joseph was a fallen prophet it actually says in verses four and five of Deuteronomy 13 it commands you not to listen to them because the Lord is testing you to see if you love him with all your mind mind strength.

So the challenge I would have for you is check it out and let me give you this one too just so you can look up the references later. Check it out. Give Joseph Smith an examination in light of scripture.

Because if what I've told you is correct and you are banking on this to some degree it's better for you to figure it out like get to the bottom of it before you get married. Because when you get married and have kids yeah there's a well there's a lot more on the line.

Right you're responsible for other people's lives. So I would say check them out. Read it. We're here every Thursday if you got questions we wouldn't mind you know having a chat with you again. But yeah just the parting thought to leave you with check out chapters of Isaiah 40 through 45.

In there there's a lot of verses where God test of excuse me testifies about himself the exclusivity of him where he says there's only one God. Only one God. But according to the church and the purpose of the temple the whole point is to become a God.

Right. So that's a different message it's a different way to God. So I would encourage you to wrestle with that.

Wrestle with the Word of God and really think about. Yeah no I would say there's a lot that if we just knew for a fact because of what was written it's like what would be the point of faith if you just knew everything everything made perfect sense we knew what we were gonna be in a million years.

Faith, Experience, and Deceiving Spirits

Yeah yeah I would.

Say because the Bible often calls people sheep I don't know if you know anything about sheep they're really stupid I'm really stupid and they tend to not listen. They need a lot of instruction and repetition.

So in the same way you know that the Word of God is clear that you shall not lie or steal. It's also clear when it says don't worship other gods whether that be you know like a statue or even yourself right.

And you know something right. And what this points to. Ultimately is you receiving worship something. If the claims of the church are true that would be the end result. You would be exalted and you would receive worship.

But what God says is that he doesn't share his glory with anyone. So what what that would mean is the rules of the game are set and it means there's no path forward. So I don't know if you've ever seen like the carrot on a stick.

You know someone like chasing after it. If I may be bold I would say that's kind of what you're chasing. If you listen to what the prophets are teaching because according to what God testified this is his testimony no one else will make it.

And he doesn't even know of any other gods. So if that's true you know I would say wrestle with the word and if necessary repent of the Mormonism that that you believe in because I think you recognize the.

I would just say I could have a conversation with someone more well-read more well-educated like yourself just be at a loss of like factual things but I just know like just from what I've the piece that I felt I just always have.

Faith. Okay one other thing I'll leave you with and I'll really let you go. Scripture does talk about how God sends deceiving spirits to let people believe their delusions. Another passage you could look at would be first Kings 22 talks about King Ahab where a lying spirit goes down and tells him if you go to war you'll succeed.

God says okay go do it and you will succeed in deceiving him. So he goes to battle and he dies. But he believed it with all his heart. So the issue is not whether you've had an experience to believe it it's whether or not it agrees with God's word.

So I would challenge you to to put the experience aside and say let the Word of God inform my thinking and the way that I live my life. Because if my experiences ultimately disagree one of them has to be right.

And it can't really be any one of us at the end of the day because we're fallible creatures. Yeah. Right. So don't don't. Trust in the folly of the heart would be my encouragement to you. Super interesting.

Yeah. Thanks for talking. Yeah. Have a good night.