News Roundup: TGC Conference, Women in Seminary, & Post-Christian Zoomers

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I'm your host, John Harris. I hope everyone's having a wonderful time out. I had a bunch of technical things that happened. And then also, for those who are on X, you might have noticed, the few of you who are on there, that James White and I started to go back and forth a little bit.

And I wanted to devote some time to that. I thought it was important enough. So now I am here. And sorry about the delays for those who were waiting. We are going to cover a number of things today. I want to give an update first, though, because we just had a conference over the weekend.

TruthScript sponsored it in Selinsgrove. Actually, someone, a native of that area, told me I was pronouncing that wrong. And I can't remember what the correct pronunciation was. So I'm going to keep going.

Sorry. Selinsgrove?

Selinsgrove?

Anyway, a place in Pennsylvania most of you probably have not heard of, but it is beautiful. And we converged on this small, I think historically, Quaker Lutheran, if I'm not mistaken, town and had a wonderful conference.

And Sound of the Gospel Church hosted, or at least let us use the building, which I'm really grateful for. And we talked about the different denominations, some of the major ones, at least, that played a part in the founding of the United States.

And we had a number of guys. We had Zach Gares and Sean McGowan and Sam Smith and Jared Lobel. And we had Stephen Wolfe. And obviously, I was speaking as well. And we all took a different part. And of course, the keynote was Paul Godfrey.

And I just think that more of this needs to happen. I had so much good feedback from people. And I realized when I was a student, both in seminary and then in grad school, there were a number of times I would go to symposiums on a particular academic topic, even topics related to Christianity, to the early church or to the Reformation or to some events, some figure, perhaps you could do a whole symposium on John Calvin, for example.

And I always enjoyed that kind of a thing. And it happens on the academic level quite a bit. But of course, most seminaries and academic institutions have gone pretty far left. And so this has, I think, created a big wedge between the church or between laymen and oftentimes people who are funding these institutions or have historically funded them and then the institutions themselves.

Why would you want to go to a seminary that's capitulated to hear about what they think about some historical topic when you know that they're reading everything through their progressive agenda? And I think it's caused a lot of people to want answers in the church.

They want to find a rich fulfillment of their heritage and Christian understandings and theology and history, but they don't have a lot of places to go. And that was one of the things that we were able to provide over the weekend.

TruthScript was able to provide this. They underwrote the whole thing. It was a very minimal fee. Of course, if you know me and you've been to any of my events, if I'm the one that's the sole responsible person for planning the conference, it's going to definitely look like it.

I'm a guy and it's going to be focused on the main stage and the information. And we want to kick it up even a notch from what we did. We would love to do not just bring you great speakers and great information and venues and so forth, but we'd like to bring in a bigger team to be able to really make these things nice.

For example, things like I could have contacted the local hotels to find out if they had a deal they could give to people attending the conference, but I had no bandwidth for it. And that's part of the problem that I've had over the years is I feel like we just have enough resources to kind of do the event or do the project, but there really isn't a lot of resources to bring in other people.

And I'm not a pastor at this point. So, I mean, a lot of pastors, their church just kind of becomes part of that. And if they have a secretary at their church, of course, the secretary ends up planning this.

But I just want you to know, for those who support this podcast, what we'd like to do, what we're looking at doing. And of course, if you are a patron, you got a email or I think it gets sent in the email, but a message from me over the last few days that will hopefully clarify some of the directions we're going.

And I talked about a number of things that I won't go into detail here, but patreon .com forward slash John Harris podcast. And you will get to participate if you are a member in our exclusive signal chat, which we have now and also our series that we're starting this next month.

I had to think about that. I think the next month, May 1st is tomorrow. So this next month on it's a great book series on conservative or Anglo conservative heritage and the books that contributed to our Anglo conservative heritage.

You might call it paleo conservative or Burkean conservative. But I realize that a lot of people are wanting to be fulfilled in these ways. They want to understand that they're not part of they didn't come from just nowhere.

They're a link in a chain and they want to know where that chain began. And so we're going to go back and we're going to talk about I might do an episode. I don't know yet. A precursor episode that talks about things like Alfred the Great in the Book of Doom and the Magna Carta and common law and those kinds of things.

I'm not sure yet, but we're going to at least do an episode on reflections on the revolution in France. And then after that, we're going to get to the anti-federalist papers and the disquisition on government by John C. Calhoun and and so forth until the present and talk about this rich heritage we have because most people need to be reintroduced to it.

I'm just realizing that and it's going to be a really, really good, fulfilling thing. So that's exclusive, though, to patrons John Harris podcast. Sorry, Patreon .com forward slash John Harris podcast.

The TGC Conference and the Limits of Big Evangelical Institutions

All right. Well, with all that, we're going to I'm trying to think about where to start here. We're going to talk about TGC. We're definitely going to go there. Maybe that is the place to start. Oh, real quick, though.

First, I need to let you know about where I'm going to be speaking next, because this weekend there is another event and that is in Pennsylvania. So I'm sorry, New Jersey, my bad. Last week was in Pennsylvania.

This one's in New Jersey. So if you come to Mount Laurel, New Jersey, to the truth conference, there is a website now, May 2nd through 4th. That's this coming weekend. I will be speaking there. It's a lot different than the event that we just did last week.

And so those who are curious and say, well, I just saw, John, this is a big this is a very different event. This is going to be more I don't know how to describe it. It's not a an academic symposium. We'll put it that way.

But it is near Philadelphia. And my brother's actually going to be there. I mean, I don't know if you should come for him. I mean, let's face it, but he will be there. And then Seth Brickley from the Eureka Baptist Church.

He has been a great friend over the years. Really generous guy. Wonderful man. Wonderful pastor. One of the guys that I just it makes it worth doing. It makes me not lose hope that there are pastors and younger pastors who are taking the reins.

And oftentimes you don't see it because it's on a local church level. Pastor Seth Brickley is one of those men. Andrew Rappaport, good friend, author and president of Striving for Eternity Ministries.

He spoke at the men's retreat, I want to say, two years ago. And then Craig Chambers, Pastor Craig Chambers, who I've yet to meet in person, but he was an EFC pastor. I think he still is actually evangelical.

Sorry, not EFC. What am I thinking? Evangelical. Yeah. Yeah. EFC, Evangelical Free Church in Pueblo, West Colorado. A lot of the guys coming, I think, are former free guys. And we're going to be talking about, hey, what's the future?

What can we do? I get a lot of those questions. From people, what do we do now that our denomination has gone a certain direction? And I'll be honest with you guys. I'm just going to be brutally honest here.

I don't have all the answers. I don't. I really don't. I know who does, but it's not me and I have thoughts, but I don't I don't know what the answer is for every unique situation. I had someone else.

I'm not going to say the name of the denomination, but another prominent denomination reached out to me and someone who is prominent in that denomination and just say, John, I have questions about the direction of the denomination and where to take it and stuff.

And I just thought, I don't know what to tell you. I can try my best to think through these issues, but ultimately we have to submit ourselves to the Lordship and providence of Jesus Christ. God is going to have his way and he uses us.

And that's really what we need to focus on is how can we be used wherever we are? And if we are not at the place that he wants us to be, how do we get there? How do we get from A to B? Maybe that means we need to gain more influence and we're not doing it because we're, I don't know, fill in the blank, something's keeping us back, but the Lord is at work.

He'll use someone else if it's not you. And I think that, yeah, I think it's important to emphasize that. So I don't know what's going to happen. You can pray for me that there will be wisdom for everyone involved and whatever our discussions are, that they would be fruitful.

Anyway, where else are we going here? OK, TGC, I said TGC. We're going to talk about TGC. TGC 25 happened and this, I wasn't paying close attention. And I think that in and of itself is a symptomatic thing.

The fact that I'm not paying that much attention says something. The fact that Southern Baptist stuff happens and I cover it oftentimes later than when it happens. I used to be kind of cutting edge and occasionally I still am, but it doesn't really concern me all that much.

And why is that? I think a lot of people who are in this audience feel that way. They've parted ways with these organizations. They don't read TGC anymore. They're not in the Southern Baptist Convention.

Their church left. And why would we care? Now, there are reasons to care. I do think that Southern Baptist Convention is the largest Protestant denomination still, though it's lost a lot of churches. That was one of the things Sam Smith talked about at the conference.

So this is one of the problems. Canada just had an election and the results are not very encouraging. And I think one of the reasons, probably the major reason Canada is in the state it's in, is the same reason that Europe is in the state it's in.

Canada, like Europe, is very irreligious. And I should have had a map ready. I don't have one ready. But if you look at maps of Europe and Canada that actually outline things like belief in God, they're pretty similar.

The United States is the outlier. The United States is different because we have a South and we have a Midwest. We have red state America and red state America serves as the conscience for the rest of the country at this point.

Red state America pulls the country in a direction where you could vote and elect Donald J. Trump. That would not have happened had you not. Can you imagine an electoral map without the South and Midwest?

It's just not going to happen. And that is the unique strength that America has. But if we lose it, that's not good. And there have been well over a thousand churches. I think it's more than that who have left the Southern Baptist Convention in the last few years.

And it's growing and people, I think, get discouraged. You go to a meeting. You see your side lose and you think, what's the point? I'm in it for ministry. I'm not in it to have a headache three days out of the year and spend all kinds of money to get to an annual meeting.

And there's guys like William Wolf, who I respect greatly, who are in this fight and they're in it for the longterm. And they think there's an avenue to take back the SBC and they want all hands on deck.

They would love it. If your church joined the SBC, I've always said, if you're going to do that, know what you're in for, and then give the minimum amount to the cooperative program. Do not enable them, give them whatever it is.

The 15 bucks, the 20 bucks a year, just to be able to have a vote and then make that, you know, if you're some people are able to handle this kind of stress, they are able to go to these meetings and they can even have fun doing it.

I don't know that I'm even one of those people. It's a unique person. Uh, I, I act, I happen to, I think, handle stress better than most, probably, especially when it comes to criticism, I'm able to, uh, not care.

My, my brother and those close to me sometimes will say, why do you go back and forth with these lower level accounts that have like three followers and I, I mean, yeah, I could have frustration, but I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I do care about these people.

Right. So, um, it's not, it's not all because I'm, uh, working off stress or frustrated. Sometimes that happens, but you know, I'm just using myself as an example to say, I'm probably one of the few people out there that's, uh, maybe well suited for this kind of thing.

And I don't even want to do that.

Right.

Uh, most people don't. And so if the Lord is going to save the SBC or the Lord's going to save some organization like TGC. It is going to take, um, I think a work of him. You have to rely on him. He's got to put it in people's hearts that this is where they should go their direction.

This is part of his plan for them. And then they need to fight with all their might. And it's, it is going to be something that he does and gets credit for. That's what I'm convinced of. It's not going to be, uh, horses and chariots that are able to pull this off.

It is going to be ultimately the Lord and maybe he'll work through horses and chariots, but he's got to do it. And I've been watching this stuff for years. And so all that to say TGC Southern Baptist and other evangelical organizations haven't really been as interesting.

I think many of us have gone our own ways on these things, but they're still tremendously influential. And if there's not a lot of voices that are still willing to take them to you can bet this podcast, at least for the foreseeable future for now, I'm still going to be willing to do that because I recognize something, and this was clarifying for me to watch the video.

I'm about to show you TGC has a lot of people. TGC has more institutional credibility and I think resources than any of the comparable, if you want to call them comparable organizations that have tried to compete with them.

Uh, I G3 might be the closest competitor. And, and, and I think that they, they're probably neck and neck with a TGC as far as numbers go. I don't know. TGC may still, I think CGC still has the numbers to be honest with you, but beyond even G3.

And some of you may know, I'm not like a hugest G3 guy. And that's, I mean, I, I actually still kind of root for them because I think they have good theology on most matters. Most of the matters they focus on.

I just think when it comes to politics, they got, um, unfortunately kind of a black eye a few years ago. And, and, um, anyway, that, I don't want to get into the weeds on that, but there's guys there that don't seem to care for me, but I still, I still want to see them successful beyond more than a TGC, more than a T4G, more, you know, T4G is not even in the running anymore, but, uh, more than most of the denominations and what they're doing, um, more than Christianity today, right?

I want to see solid stuff going on. And you know, who, who are the guys, right? I mean, you got sort of the Moscow wing. You got, um, I noticed Michael Foster's now starting to do more stuff. There was just this conference at, uh, well, it wasn't actually at the church, but it was at a conference center that Joel Webb and put on, uh, there's, um, there's all these different, and I would say, uh, sometimes very different groups that are forming that are, uh, in this sort of fractured wake of 2020.

And, uh, and there, none of them come close to what I'm about to show you. Um, fight, laugh, feast doesn't come close to the numbers I'm about to show you. So what am I about to show you? Here's the video.

And then I'll give you some commentary.

A few years ago, probably a few years ago, um, I was working in the Spanish speaking world. I had heard about this other brother named Miguel Nunez, a medical doctor that had become a pastor who was working in Latin America.

The Lord brought our paths together as we began to rain a storm. How can we work together in the Spanish speaking world?

Okay.

Hey, sorry. That is the final day of TGC is conference 2025. And this is a commentary. This is where I pulled the video from. It's from a guy named Joey. Uh, Cochran has the momentum of the reformed resurgence slowed and his TGC, a movement in declension.

When most conferences experience attrition on its final day of meeting, I see a packed exhibition hall in a standing room, only meeting hall of 7 ,000 plus attendees. In a word, no TGC 25 TGC. So, uh, this room that you see right here that I just played for you.

See if I can mute that. Um, now I'm trying to find out, I'm trying to look, it's very hard what the demographic here is. I mean, you're seeing this from a distance. Uh, it looks to me though, like it's probably consistent with the video from last year, cause I commented on the same dynamic.

It's mainly upper millennials and Gen Xers. I think now I'm not saying there aren't any zoomers there, but this is mostly, I think, upper millennials in Gen Xers that are attending events like this. Now, the encouraging part is if that's their, uh, the demographic that they are attracting, then they are not probably, if they can't reach the Gen Zers, then they are, there's a ceiling on this, they're only going to be able to expand so far and they may not be expanding anymore.

They may have, I think, hit a wall. And I, I suspect that that, but, but this is still influential. This is still big in reformed evangelicalism. Uh, I want to talk about zoomers in a minute, but before we get there, um, my I I'm convinced that zoomers actually are much less likely to attend a conference.

We may be, and this is a prediction of mine. Okay. We may very well be in a situation where conferences are not the future, at least national or international conferences that they'll still happen, but they'd hit their ceiling.

And, um, it's going to be like, you, you remember, well, some of you may not have studied this, but, uh, and, and you, none of you were alive for it, but okay, so none of you remember, but maybe some of you remember studying in the turn of the last century before last now, uh, there were what you were well up through, I guess, the 1920s and thirties, there were a lot of prophecy conferences.

I mean, even my dad remembers some of that from when he was growing up, but they were really big, uh, during the fundamentalist movement, prophecy conferences. Uh, one of the big ones I think was the great lakes, uh, region prophecy conference.

And, uh, and this was a big thing. And of course that fizzled out over time, but you can still look back and say, remember that time when everyone just got together and it was so big and there was this big movement.

And I think we are past that with the young reformed movement. It's not young anymore. It's middle-aged. And, uh, the, that movement I think is kind of stuck. That's my prediction. Okay. I could be wrong, but that's my prediction.

I don't think that this has, uh, for cultural reasons, gen Z years, aren't as likely to show up for a number, you know, economics as part of this being online more as part of this consuming information that way.

Uh, also just, uh, social anxiety is part of this. I think there's a number of reasons for this. Uh, but there's all, they're also less Christian, right. And I'll talk about that in a moment. So I don't think that it's making its way, no matter who's trying to do it into the gen Z crowd.

I think your best way of reaching and expanding in this scenario that we are in now is on the local level at smaller conferences, do more of them, but make it feasible for people to attend. I don't know if you noticed there was a controversy recently on X.

Over a con, a certain conference, uh, that shall go nameless charging almost a thousand dollars to have certain privileges to meet conference speakers. And this was later clarified. And I guess there's some marketing company to blame.

Now the question I have is, you know, what, why, why are we hiring marketing companies to, but I don't want to get into it. I don't want to get into it. Uh, let's just leave it there. Uh, even if you don't pay a thousand dollars to come to a conference and meet people, right.

This particular conference, uh, costs, what is it? You know, 200 bucks or something for a ticket. It's pretty expensive to show up at a conference. And then you got to pay for a hotel. You got to pay for food by the time you're done paying for everything you need to pay for, for those days that you are at the conference.

You are in, even if you're from the local area, you are easily in 700 bucks. And if you're not from the local area, you got to fly to this place. You're, you're already paying possibly 800 to a thousand dollars to code, go to a conference.

Now, some people are willing to do that. There is a class of people willing to do that. And they mostly are affluent. And if you can tap into that affluent group of people, they're not going to mostly be zoomers.

Uh, then you can make some money on conferences. I've never made money on a conference. I've always spent money. In fact, this last conference we had over the weekend, I, I think it's going to cost truth scripts.

I don't know, 7 ,000 bucks. And, um, you know, for the tickets we got, I haven't seen actual numbers, but I'm guessing, uh, you know, we, we probably pulled in, you know, $400 or something. It's not like, like, and we do that on purpose, right?

That we, that's what the money's there for. That's why you've donated a truth script is so we can do these kinds of things. We want there to be an access point. We want people to be able to afford to go, but we also recognize if you're going to have, especially zoomers show up, you got to make that entry to, uh, that, that bar of entry.

A lot lower, they need to be able to, uh, afford to come. And most of them just aren't in an economic place to be able to do that. That's one barrier of many. I think that for any growing Christian movement, it's going to look like.

Smaller conferences and more of them. If it's going to be a movement and it's going to have probably an online presence if it's a national or international thing, but I think the local church and local communities is really where it's at.

And I'm a localist anyway. I'm a regionalist. Um, I'm writing a book on the new, uh, writing a chapter in a book, uh, that others are contributing to on the new Christian right or ascendant Christian.

Right. And I got the chapter on localism or regionalism because I think it's so important and it's already in our DNA as Americans, that is who we are. And if we can tap back into that, I think that we have, uh, we have a shot politically and also spiritually for the church.

I think it is much more healthy to, uh, for one reason. And this is one of many, uh, you have a scale at which you can actually tell whether someone is a grifter or a, a fake, uh, you can tell whether they have the character to match the position they're in and worthy of leadership.

You don't have that on a national level mediated through a screen as much. It's very hard. You have it more when you can watch a guy's life. So all that to say that's happening. TGC is still happening and there's still a reason to focus on them.

Even I think more than some of the things people are very concerned about happening on X.

I get it.

Uh, I'm trying to be measured and look at all things and put them in proportion, but look, um, if your movement can ratio guys on X and a very niche world, that means something, but I don't know that it means as much as having 7 ,000 people show up for your national conference, the big gorilla in evangelical Christianity are still the organizations that I've been focusing on.

There's still the organizations. Megan Basham has been focusing on and William Wolfe and the competitors to these organizations. Um, I think true script Christ overall founders seminary. Um, you know, the, uh, uh, I'm trying to think of other ones.

Um, you know, Michael Foster's group. Uh, there, I mean, there's so many now, but the, those are the organizations that if you're going to spend money, if you're going to give towards a 501 C three and you, you know, whatever, if you are blessed to be in the position beyond the local church that you have and you want to see something happen, those are the organizations I would look at.

And, uh, and of course, don't give it a crew. Don't give it to these other big organizations. They are still powerful. They can still do damage. I was privileged recently of talking to some crew missionaries, by the way, who came out to an event and, uh, uh, they, they were just so grateful that, um, not just myself, but I'm sure others had exposed that organization, but it was really hard for them because it is a, it's a huge organization.

I don't think people realize, uh, I, this podcast has exposed much, but there's still as much to be exposed. And I don't say that any of this to discourage you. In fact, I want you to be encouraged. We've done a lot.

You know, in fact, I know personally had crew. Uh, I can't really say the situation. I, all I can say is that, um, there was a situation not long ago where they told someone who had been on staff that, uh, John Harris had hurt them in their donations tremendously and anyone associated with him essentially would be punished by crew, or at least they would be, uh, uh, they would, they would have a talking to at the very least.

So we'll put it that way. So we've done a lot. I think the Lord's been in this, but, um, Hey, it's separating wheat from chaff, a lot of this work and it's still ongoing. So TGC happened and these were the speakers that are still giving to TGC or contributing, you had Alistair bag, Ryan Kwan, uh, Kenneth, uh, I'm sorry.

I'm I, I've never heard of Kenneth, so I'm going to have a hard time with this name, but, uh, uh, I'm sorry.

Who go?

I think I'm saying that right.

Who go?

And then, uh, John Piper, of course, David flat, Mark, uh, Rago and Andrew Wilson or Mark forgot rather. And Andrew Wilson. Uh, and then they had some breakout sessions. I'm not going to read every name.

Uh, some of that stand out or Sam Albury and Jason Allen. Danny Aiken, of course, uh, was there Danny Aiken's Danny Aiken's a clip where he says he wants to give up white, uh, authority to minorities.

And the SBC has been going around again, uh, with the whole you first Danny, um, HB Charles, Brian chapel. I mean, some of these guys have done good work on some things. Uh, but, uh, you know, over the years, as you followed my stuff with TGC, you know, that, you know, the ministry itself has been compromised.

Andy Davis. Um, I used to attend that church actually. And, um, you know, I, I've corresponded with Andy Davis a little bit on this stuff. I even offered for him to be in a documentary, uh, against social justice, cause he said he was against it and stuff.

And, um, I've just, he's still affiliated though with SEBTS with TGC. Uh, it's just, I, I'm just telling you in this whole group, there's Ligon Duncan. There's Keith Getty, um, Rachel Gilson, JD Greer, uh, man, there's so, so many speakers here.

Uh, we've got Rebecca McLaughlin. So, oh, there's Tony, uh, Merida from Southeastern also acts 29. Uh, Gavin Ortland of course is there. Um, do I, who else? Oh, bill Rydell.

Wow.

Bill Rydell is there that thoroughly woke, um, uh, leader in the evangelical free church. I didn't even know he was affiliated with it. That's interesting. He's at TGC. That is actually fascinating. I did not know that.

Cause he's, I wouldn't see him as like a young reformed guy, uh, or none of these guys are young, but I wouldn't see him as a reformed guy. There's Juan Sanchez. Right. I told you guys, you know, he's the law amendment and all that.

Not withstanding, uh, that's kind of where he he's at. There's Patrick Shriner.

Um, okay.

I'm tired of going through this. There's way too many names. So Jen Wilkin. Um, so Jared Wilson, Trevor wax, Andrew Walker. So, so there's, there's a mix of people here, but here's the thing. Um, this is the who's who of reformed evangelicalism.

This is literally the who's who. And there's so many guys in there that would be so sensitive to being told that they're on the social justice train. In fact, probably almost every single one of them would deny it at this point.

And that is par for the course in evangelicalism. It is the denial, the disguise, the deflection. It's always been that way since I've been involved in this and we just are going to forget what people said.

And we're going to try to move on and pretend it never happened. And, and you can't really do that. Uh, you need to focus on following the guys who got 2020, right? Both the BLM issue and the COVID issue when the going was tough, not the guys who later on came around, not the guys who, uh, saw it as an opportunity to build a platform because there was a demand for leaders who didn't compromise.

No, the guys right then at that moment did the right thing. Uh, they were, they were conservative, uh, both in their theological and political dispositions when it wasn't cool to be, that's who you need to follow.

They're not on the list guys. They're just not there. There's no room for nuance to pick on a particular podcast. There, there really isn't. It is, it is in lockstep and. Uh, some, and I haven't watched all the, uh, speakers and what they said and all that kind of stuff.

But there were some interesting things that people sent me. And so here's one of them, this volume might be a little low, but this is, uh, David Platt.

David Platt, Trauma Language, and Accountability

Of reasons not shared publicly, but it ties directly with this text. And as I prayed about it, I, as best as I can tell, I'm fallible, so I may be wrong. But I believe, and I hope it will encourage you that are going into all the details.

There was one point in some of the challenges we walked through in our church a few years ago, that was particularly traumatizing involving somebody coming at me physically with police.

Okay.

So someone is coming at David Platt physically, and he's traumatized by it. This is a trauma moment for David.

He's coming after them. And thankfully was able to get out of that situation. But the next morning, my wife and I were at a small gathering of brothers and sisters in Christ, many of whom.

And you might hear some noise in the background that is, uh, unintentional. The person who sent me this, sent it to me like this. And then TGC, as I understand it, uh, deleted the clip or didn't post it.

So I am working with what I have here.

I didn't personally know. And at one point, somebody I did know, ask the group to pray over my wife, Heather and me. So we got on our knees and they started praying over us. And as that time began to conclude, I hear the voice of a sister in Christ on the other side of the room.

And she began to speak. She said, I don't know you guys. I don't know anything about what you're walking through, why we're even praying for you. Like nothing. She had no context. And she definitely didn't know, uh, what had happened the night before and how unsettling it was.

But she said, when you walked into the room today, I heard the word direct attack, and I had a picture in my mind of something coming at you physically. And these were her words. She said, Jesus himself dressed in complete armor stood in the way to protect you.

But it was traumatizing. And I just feel led to read to you from Isaiah 59. And she starts reading from where I just quoted from how God with his righteousness as a breastplate and salvation on his head is a defender of his people.

I'm sitting there like bawling before God as his spirit is speaking to my heart through his word in a supernatural way that no one, no one could explain. And then if that wasn't clear enough, a few weeks later, another sister in Christ visits our church, not knowing anything about me, anything that was going on in our church family.