September 19, 2018 Show with Murungi Igweta on “The Gospel of God’s Sovereign Grace in Nairobi, Kenya, Africa”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 19th day of September 2018 and I am so delighted to have as my guest for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Murungi Igueta.

He is pastor of Trinity Baptist Church of Nairobi, Kenya, Africa and we are going to be addressing the theme,

The Gospel of God's Sovereign Grace in Nairobi and we're also going to be announcing the 2018

West Coast Bible Conference where Murungi and a number of other speakers will be on the lineup at the

Providence Baptist Church of Sunnyvale, California coming up very soon.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Murungi Igueta.

It's a great honor being with you, brother. Thank you so much for having me here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Oh, the pleasure is all mine, brother, and am I pronouncing your name correctly? You are, you are.

Yeah, you're pronouncing my name very much correctly as if you're a Kenyan.

Great. And originally, Pastor Murungi was going to be right here next to me in the studio because he was visiting

Carlisle, Pennsylvania on the 10th of this month, but I had an unexpected extended stay in Jacksonville, Florida, which did not enable me to arrive back in time to do the live program.

In fact, it was not only my plans, but it was Pastor Murungi's plans.

He departed Carlisle, Pennsylvania earlier than he thought that he would be departing and so therefore we had to postpone our face -to -face interview to a future date, but I'm so delighted we were able to schedule one today while he is here in the

States. Before we let our listeners know about the West Coast Bible Conference, tell our listeners about Trinity Baptist Church in Nairobi, Kenya, Africa.

Thank you. Trinity Baptist Church, Nairobi, is a church that began in 1978, so we are celebrating our 40th anniversary this year.

Actually, the celebration itself will be on the 6th of October in Nairobi. It's a church that was planted by a kid on the hill who came from Britain.

He went to university in Aberystwyth University and became a

Christian there, was converted under the ministry of Geoff Thomas at Alfred Place Baptist Church there in Aberystwyth, and along the line he sent a call to the ministry and especially to the mission, and he went to Kenya in 1968 as a geography teacher, and that school where he was sent happens to be the very place where I was born, right?

A few yards from my home is the school where I keep taught providentially, but he taught me in the school for three years and then went back home and was sent for seminary education at Westminster, Philadelphia, and then in 1975 the church in Aberystwyth sent him back to Kenya to plant the church, but the church did not take off until 1978.

So that's the kind of history that we've had with a kid on the hill who has now retired.

He retired three years ago and relocated back to his country in Britain.

He lives in Liverpool now, though he is very closely involved with us.

Even as I speak right now, kid is in Nairobi. The church has been in existence for those 40 years.

In terms of our belief, we are a reformed Baptist church fully subscribing to the 1589

Baptist confessional faith, which was quite rare, and even right now there are very few churches in Kenya that would be reformed, and even those that are reformed, most of them would have some relationship with us either directly or indirectly.

So that's basically about 22 Baptist churches with a membership of 128 members now, two elders, myself and Eric as well, and we have eight deacons serving alongside us at Trinity Baptist Church.

Well, praise God, and one of my former pastors, Mark Grimaldi, who still is pastoring

Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island, New York in Merrick, I remember before he became a pastor there, he was training for the mission field under Keith Underhill and was intending to stay there in Kenya as a missionary, but God had other plans and raised him up to be one of the pastors at Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick.

Well, coming up very soon, the West Coast, 2018

West Coast Bible Conference is being held at the Providence Bible Church of Sunnyvale, California, and I love the lineup, especially since some of these brethren on the lineup have been guests on Iron Trip and Zion Radio and I have thoroughly enjoyed interviewing them, including

Dr. W .R. Downing, pastor and professor and author, Dr.

John Waldrip, pastor of Calvary Road Baptist Church in Monrovia, California, Dr.

Paul Nelson, who's also a pastor, professor, and author, Dr. Eddie Delcor, professor of theology and author,

Pastor Joe Jackowitz, pastor and president of First Love Ministries and First Love Radio, which airs my program,

Iron Trip and Zion Radio, every day via live streaming, and of course you, Pastor Murungi Igueta, pastor of Trinity Baptist Church of Nairobi, Kenya.

The only two of these men that I have not yet interviewed are Dr. Waldrip and Dr.

Nelson, and I hope to interview both of them soon. In fact, we had once, not long ago, had

Dr. Nelson scheduled to be interviewed, but something came up providentially that hindered that interview, but I do intend to get him on the program, perhaps to speak on his book on presuppositionalism at some point in the near future.

Tell us specifically what you will be speaking about at this conference. So I will be speaking, so the conference is about the need for biblical, the necessity for biblical hermeneutics, and various subjects have been lined up, and myself,

I will be speaking on practical principles of biblical hermeneutics.

I hope to show from the scriptures, you know, there is that statement there in Acts 8 regarding Philip and the

Ethiopian eunuch, where, let me just get hold of the passage, but Philip basically told, the

Bible says that he opened up his mouth and, beginning with this scripture, he told the good news about Jesus, and the point is that any biblical preacher has to show that the

Bible is a book that is about Jesus Christ, it's about the gospel, and that whatever you may say or not say, that must be saying that salvation is through faith in Christ alone, because he is the one appointed by God for salvation, for the salvation of people.

So that's the gist of my message, taken from Acts 8, with the defiance of that statement.

Well this conference is being held very soon, September 29th and September 30th at the

Providence Bible Church of Sunnyvale, California, Sunnyvale, California, that's one word by the way,

Sunnyvale, and for more details on the conference, you can,

I'm looking at the flyer here, and for some reason I can't find any phone number, well, if you want to attend the conference, you can at least go to the website of the church the

Providence Bible Church of Sunnyvale, California, and that website is,

I'm getting that up right now, pbc -ca .org, that's pbc, for Providence Bible Church, dash ca .org,

and there will be contact information for you there, so you can make arrangements to attend, and I would strongly urge you to attend, because of the fine folks, the very impressive folks that are involved in the conference.

Well, now it comes time for one of my favorite parts of the program, when

I interview first -time guests, I typically have them give an account, a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include the religious atmosphere, if any, that they were raised in, and then what providential circumstances our

Sovereign Lord raised up in their lives to draw them to himself and save them, so I'd like to know that about you, brother.

Well, it's always a great privilege to speak about how the

Lord graciously moved in my life to draw me from judgment into the marvelous life of his kingdom through his

Son, so I would be more than happy to do that. So, I was raised up in a

Roman Catholic home. My father, my mothers were involved in church where we attended.

And by the way, brother, if you could, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, speak as closely to the speaker of whatever you're using as possible, because your voice is somewhat quiet.

All right. Okay, I've increased the volume of the microphone. Thank you.

Yes, I was raised in a Roman Catholic home, I think, and just about when

I was 11 or 12 there, I got to read history, and especially the medieval history, and I got to know of the atrocities committed by the

Roman Catholic Church against the Protestant believers. And that disturbed me.

I wondered, how can Christians kill each other? So, the implication of that was that I decided

I would not have anything to do with the Roman Catholic Church, and I told my mother that I wouldn't be attending church with her anymore.

I really felt very disillusioned with the church as I knew it.

The Lord used that to stir my heart to want to know more from the

Bible. What does the Bible say? Does the Bible sanction killing of other

Christians? So, I got to be reading the Bible, and I was very interested in reading religious books for that reason.

Now, as I said, when Keith came to Kenya, there was a church that was planted also near where he was teaching in my rural home.

So, I would have connections and friends from that church who would give me books, and I would read them, just as I went on to read the

Bible. Then I eventually would read the

Scriptures, read through the Bible, but not going to church, and I didn't want to go to church.

And anyone who attempted to bring the Gospel to me, I would simply say, I'm not a Christian, and I'm not interested, even though I read the

Bible and read the religious books. And from that church,

I gathered a few books, like Knowing God by J .I. Parker. I read

Martin Lloyd -Jones, Preaching on Preachers, believe it or not, as an unbeliever, and so many other books like those.

Fast forward, and a few years down the line, after I'd gone through school,

I got a job in Nairobi, and I met with a former classmate who was looking for a job in Nairobi.

And he said, if you come across any kind of a job, please look for me and help me get a job.

And he said, if you want to get hold of me, on a Sunday morning, go to such and such a church, and you will find me by the church notice board.

That's where I would usually go after the service, to see whether there would be any job openings in any of the companies, because the church used to do that.

So two weeks down the line, I went, I got a job for him, and I went to look for him in this church.

And very providentially, that Sunday morning was raining. So inasmuch as I didn't want to go into the church,

I was only interested in my friend, I had to go in because I didn't want to get wet.

So I went in. And as soon as I entered that church building, the

Lord put it in my heart how sinful and depraved

I was, and how different I was from everyone else in the church. I looked at them, and I didn't see them as a bunch of hypocrites, as I thought.

I saw them as sincere people who are worshipping God. They knew what they were doing. They were happy about it.

And I thought, why should I not be like this? So the pastor of the church preached and eventually said, if you're there, you're troubled about the state of your soul, go to the room on my right, and we will speak with you about it.

And I went to this room, and I found a man there who told me that,

I know why you've come. You have this big problem that you cannot solve, your sins that have brought you here.

But I'm sorry to tell you that I cannot solve this problem either. So I asked him, then why did you call me here?

And he said, because I know the one who can, the Lord Jesus Christ. You repent of your sins now, you believe in Him, and He will forgive you all your sins, no matter how awful they are.

So I sat down, and he presented the gospel to me. He told me of the grace that there is in Jesus Christ, of His mercy to forgive sins.

He told me of His death on the cross, of the salvation of sinners. And he urged me to believe in Him.

And that Sunday morning, I felt the weight of my sins. I felt how the

Lord helped me to see how self -righteous I was, how proud I was.

And He helped me to come to Him, believing in Jesus Christ.

And I left there with peace brimming in my heart, and I still thank and praise the

Lord who so saved me. Praise God. Well, tell us about your journey into the

Reformed faith specifically. So after three years,

I found myself pastoring a church that I didn't want to pastor.

What happened was that... Well, first of all, you have to tell us how you became a pastor. You know, it's all very closely connected.

So I went to this town, found a church planter, linked up with him, helped him with the church planting, and that denomination kind of let me pastor that church, and we could do the church planter.

And along the line, I met up with a man who was Reformed, and we were preaching at the same meetings we've been invited to preach.

And he told me that he wasn't going to make an altar call, and I was translating for him. So he said he wasn't going to make any...

He was not going to ask sinners to move forward after he preached what is called the altar call or the invitation.

And I wondered, why would you preach and not invite people to be saved?

He didn't explain to me, but he said, if you want to go and if you want to make an altar call, you're free to do that.

We can talk about it later. So he preached, and he preached so well.

I think he preached from John, John 8, where the

Lord says that if you do not believe in...

I think it's the I AM saying, if you don't believe, you will perish. If you don't believe

I AM, you'll perish in your sin. And he went on to urge people to believe in Christ.

But then he didn't make an altar call, and I thought, how do you get a cow with so much milk?

You milk it, but you don't have a bucket. You're milking to the crowd. So as he preached,

I was agreeing with everything he was saying, but it disturbed me that he wasn't going to ask people to be saved, because I personally felt like I would go forward and be saved.

So I thought, no, I'm not going to let this message go. I will call people forward, because I was translating for him.

So he preached and left, and I went on to call people to supposedly get saved.

A few people came, and some even closed up their shops to come and respond to the call. And the following day we met with this

Reformed pastor, and he told me very bluntly, if you would humble yourself, the

Lord could use you. And he told me that you have to do that which is in Scripture, and nothing else.

Nothing more, nothing less. So it elated me to show him from the Bible where Jesus, or his apostles,

John or Peter, all called people to be saved as I did. And obviously

I didn't have a passage except to appeal to so many people who do it. So many preachers who call people forward.

So anyway, we got into contact, I got into contact with this pastor, and we started learning the

Scriptures with him. And eventually he pointed me to so many books which I read, and I was convinced that I had been leading people astray by my making the article, and many other things that I taught which were not founded on Scripture.

So I moved into this church, this Reformed church, and I was under his ministry for three years.

Then I saw the need to be further trained and asked for an internship at Trinity Baptist Church under Kip Anderson in 2009.

We moved in there, and in 2010 I became a pastor there with Kip until 2015 when...

Now the pastor who was initially speaking or preaching the same event where you were preaching and where you conducted the altar call, what was that preacher's name?

The Reformed preacher? Yes, Michael O 'Keeffe. Okay, now if you wouldn't mind, because not all of the listeners of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio are

Reformed. We have Arminian listeners, we even have non -Christian listeners, we have

Muslim listeners on occasion. But tell us why, since that event, you have come to abandon the practice of the altar call.

People might be confused by that. I know that, first of all, it's obviously not a practice that is laid out in the

Scriptures. Of course, there are some things that we who are Christians do that are not laid out in the

Scriptures either, that we don't believe are violating scriptural principles, like handing out of tracts, for instance.

There's nothing in the Bible that says we are to hand out pieces of paper that have the gospel written on them and that kind of a thing.

But when it comes to an altar call, there can be some dangerous and misleading elements that are attached to it.

The altar call or the invitation as some people describe it, I mean obviously

I'm sure as a Reformed Baptist you believe that we are always to invite people to Christ, but that is not the same thing as walking down an aisle and saying a prayer.

And especially when it goes into more serious problems is when a preacher or pastor declares that person with certainty that they are saved, just because they've read that prayer or recited it or repeated it.

But if you could, tell us about why you think the altar call system is something that we should abandon if we are already doing it.

Well, that's a very good question, especially where I come from, it's almost the only way that Christians would be brought to say that it was.

Now, the reason why I believe an altar call is very, very dangerous is because when the preacher, so the preacher has the business, it is his duty to declare the gospel and tell people the good news about the salvation that there is in Jesus Christ and urge them to repent of their sins and to believe in Jesus Christ.

And we should do that. But if we take that further to ask people to move forward, raise their hands, to repeat a prayer, we are taking a responsibility that belongs to the

Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit who should lead the

Holy Spirit to convict men, sinners, of their sins. To show them the gravity and the awfulness of their sins, that's the work of the

Holy Spirit. To believe in Jesus Christ, that's the work of the Holy Spirit.

Ours is only to declare the gospel and leave the Holy Spirit to do His work. When a preacher tells a sinner to do certain things, the sinner might trust in those things instead of trusting in the

Savior. That's where it gets very dangerous. The sinner believes that I have become a

Christian because I have lifted up my hand, because I've moved forward to the preacher, because I've repeated the prayer.

The prayer itself is wrong because the prayer that is repeated is basically the preacher's prayer.

It's not the sinner's prayer. It's for the sinner to ask to go into mercy himself.

No one should do it for him. It should not be done by somebody. If you look at the people who may repeat a sinner's prayer, they might be made to believe that they are converted on the basis of what has happened when they are not.

Because the Bible doesn't say that this is the way you are to be converted. If you use it, then the sinner would be misled and would be deceived, be made to believe that he's a believer when he is not, and live a sinful life when thinking that he's a believer, but he's not.

And that's why so many people would struggle with sin and so many things that are un -Christian and think that he's a preacher.

The preachers who have had their people repeat the sinner's prayer, I prefer calling it the preacher's prayer, would then have another category of Christians that they call nominal

Christians, that is, people who identify themselves openly with Christianity, but they are not showing the fruit of repentance.

So I believe that the article has the potential for inoculating sinners from the gospel since they believe that they are saved when they are not.

The other danger relating to the article is that sinners have a false assurance, assurance that is not based on the

Word of God, it's not based on the conviction of the Spirit, it's based on what the preacher says.

And that assurance, if pushed further, could lead these people into having a false belief in the preacher and produce a cultic following.

So I would be very wary of any preacher calling sinners forward, as I've described.

Yeah, it might be a big surprise to a lot of our listeners who are unaware of this, but the altar call or the invitation system where you invite people to walk forward to where the preacher is standing so that you can say a prayer with him and be declared a saved individual, that did not even exist for the entirety of church history until the 19th century, and Charles Finney basically was the originator of that practice.

It began with the anxious bench, I believe, and then it morphed into the altar call.

And a lot of people might be shocked to hear that because they think that this is such a vital, a key element of Christian worship and of evangelism.

They treat it like a third sacrament or a third ordinance. I mean, there's much ceremony involved in it.

There's usually music playing in the background. There is a solemn type of parade going on here, especially if you have a lot of people coming forward.

And this kind of thing was never occurring in churches, in Bible -believing churches, ever in the history of the church.

So for someone to automatically assume that if you do not have these practices, that you are not concerned about the lost, that you are not interested in evangelizing and that kind of a thing, that you're hyper -Calvinist, all kinds of accusations that are hurled against those that don't have altar calls, you've got to look into, number one, the

Bible to find one, to prove that that should be a part of the regular practice of the church.

But also, you go through the annals of history and you won't find it until the 19th century. I can remember on a number of occasions, visitors who were not

Reformed, not Sovereign Grace -believing Christians, who would hear one of my pastors preach a powerful message and then conclude with a prayer, telling people to call out to God, of course, to repent and call out to God where they were sitting.

And I can recall on a number of times these non -Reformed Christians saying to me afterwards, he blew it!

Your pastor blew it! He gave this wonderful sermon, this powerful sermon, and then when he could have invited people to come forward to be saved, he just didn't do it and these people might go home, they may get hit by a car, they may die and go to hell.

Now, it's really frightening when you think that a Christian would put that much weight in the power of the so -called altar call, as if that is going to determine the eternal destiny of people who hear a sermon.

That's when it really, you can see that it has become an idol to people when they go that far. Yeah, and I think we also need to point out that we are not saying that all the people who responded to the altar call as the way that they came to the faith, that they are all unbelievers.

We're not necessarily saying that. What we are saying is that it's unbiblical and it has potential for danger.

It's possible that the Lord sovereignly used such a flawed means to bring one salvation.

Yes, even I think Ian Murray, if I'm not mistaken, was saved at a Billy Graham crusade through an altar call.

I'm pretty certain that was the case, and I believe possibly even Errol Hulls, I'm not sure.

But I know that people that have been saved by the providence and sovereignty of God during an altar call have even eventually written against the practice, even though God used it to save them personally.

The way I see it is when Balaam, a false prophet, had his donkey speak, or God used the donkey to speak, it was a very rare occasion.

Now, it would be wrong for us to say that we will wait for our donkey to speak like it did for Balaam.

So I see God overruling sovereignly to use a flawed method to bring in his elect to the fold of Christ.

Amen. And he uses a flawed method every time we open up our mouths and tell people about the gospel and about the

Bible, and every time, as eloquent and as powerful and as gifted as a preacher is, there is a flawed element of what he is saying and doing, because otherwise he would be speaking as an apostle the

God -breathed words that would be coming right through him miraculously. Yeah. And I think it's because of our own flawed nature, we need to be very, very close to the scripture, and declare the gospel, and bring that which is in the

Bible alone, because it's only the Bible that is not flawed. Amen. We have to go to our first station break.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for Murungi Egweta, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. You can ask him any question that you would ask any pastor.

You could ask him specifically about Kenya, about specifically Nairobi. You can ask him about his testimony that he gave earlier.

You can ask him just a theological, a doctrinal question. We would welcome all of that. And our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

That's chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.

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Hi, Phil Johnson here. I'm executive director of John MacArthur's media ministry, Grace to You, and I'm also an occasional guest on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

So I'm delighted that my friend Chris Arnzen and I will be heading down to Atlanta for the

G3 conference, where I'll be joining James White, Steve Lawson, Vodie Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Todd Friel, Josh Bice, and a host of other speakers to address the topic of biblical understanding of missions.

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.nyc. Have a great day. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And continue to pray for Mike Gadosh, the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books, who many of you know recently had very serious and dangerous and complicated open heart surgery, and many of you also know he's recovering home now after a successful surgery.

He seems to be recovering well, but he is not out of the woods. There are several weeks to go before the doctors are completely at ease with his recovery.

So please continue to pray that our great physician Jesus Christ raises him up out of that condition to fullness of strength and health and vitality, and even more so that as a result of this frightening trial in his life, the

Lord makes him even more spiritually healthy than he ever has been before. And we thank you for your prayers, and I know

Mike Gadosh personally thanks you from the depths of his heart for your prayers during this very frightening trial in his life.

That's Solid Ground Christian Books, and it would also be a good idea to order as many books as you can from solid -ground -books .com,

solid -ground -books .com, to help make up for the dip in sales that occurred while Mike was laid up in the hospital.

I'm sure he would appreciate that as well, and please always mention that you heard about Solid Ground Christian Books from Chris Orenson on Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio.

Before we return to Murungi Igueta, our guest today, I just have one more announcement.

Our new sponsor, Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, is having their

Reformation Conference on Saturday, October 6th and Sunday, October 7th.

The theme is, Why the Reformation Still Matters, and the speaker is Mike Ebendroff.

He is Senior Pastor at Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston, Massachusetts. He is the author of Jesus Christ, the

Prince of Preachers, the Sovereignty and Supremacy of King Jesus, Sexual Fidelity, and Evangelical White Lies.

He is also a very popular conference speaker amongst Reformed Christians and has been a guest on this program.

And if you would like to attend this conference, you can go to gracebfc .com

forward slash conference. That's gracebfc, which stands for biblefellowshipchurch .com

forward slash conference. And as I said, the conference is Saturday, October 6th and Sunday, October 7th.

Grace Bible Fellowship Church is located on 1250 Colonial Road in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and you can also call them for more details at 717 -652 -5229.

717 -652 -5229. We are now back with our guest today,

Pastor Murungi Igueta, who is Pastor of Trinity Baptist Church in Nairobi, Kenya, Africa.

And Pastor, before we go to any listener questions, I just want to follow up a little bit with our discussion on the altar call.

I think we have to be also clear that there are churches, there are dead, mainline, liberal, apostate churches that do not have altar calls because they don't even believe the people hearing the message have any need of salvation.

They don't believe in the altar call for an entirely different reason, and we would join those that have altar calls in giving them, these mainline or liberal or apostate churches, a stern rebuke and a call to repentance because they are just as lost from behind the pulpit as those in their pews listening to them speak.

So, we do know that there are people that don't have altar calls for entirely wrong reasons.

That's right. I would agree with that. And we do have a listener in Cork, Ireland.

We have Mary in Cork, Ireland, and her question is, I am aware of many

Africans who are into the faith movement and the prosperity gospel.

I think she means the word of faith movement, perhaps. Can you tell me, do you know of any who have departed from this false gospel and come to the

Reformed beliefs? If so, do some or any attend your Reformed church?

Thank you for taking time to read this question. God bless you. That's Mary in Cork, Ireland. Yes, I know of so many men or pastors and Christians who have departed from the word of faith movement.

Two of my best friends, Barnabas, who is a pastor in Mombasa, Kenya, and another pastor called

Elie Achok, who is actually his biological brother, and a pastor in the western part of Kenya, are some of the men who were steeped in the word of faith movement and are now denouncing it and showing how unrepentant it is.

Pastor Barnabas has written an article that I would highly recommend. It's called, The Death of Faith in the

Word of Faith Movement. It's an excellent article on the subject. So I do know of people who have come from that background, and even at our own church, in Trinity Baptist Church, we have many, many who have come from the word of faith movement.

And I know, personally, a pastor here in the United States who's actually originally from the

United Kingdom, from England, Pastor John Sampson. He has been a guest on Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio a number of times, and Pastor John Sampson was not only a believer in the word of faith movement at one time, he was also a pastor in the word of faith movement, and he was also a television talk show host on the

Trinity Broadcasting Network, which is a word of faith television network. And he not only departed from that movement, but he became a cessationist and a

Reformed Baptist, and he is pastoring the King's Church there in Arizona.

And I know that it's in the Phoenix area, I just can't remember right off the top of my head what city, but I will get that information to our listeners if you email me and ask me about Pastor John Sampson, if you happen to live near Arizona or live in Arizona or plan to visit there or have loved ones there.

Let's see, we have RJ in White Plains, New York, who says,

Can you tell us something about the physical description of Nairobi, Kenya? Many of us who do not live in Africa or who have never visited there may have all kinds of ideas and pictures in our mind that do not fit the reality.

We may think of Africa as all jungle or all desert or what have you, but I know that there are cities and other more built -up areas that would not fit the typical stereotypical picture of Africa.

Hmm, that's interesting. A typical stereotypical. But if you could, respond to RJ in White Plains, New York.

So, Nairobi is a modern city. It's a city with many skyscraper buildings and motorways or highways.

It's modern in every sense. I mean, it's a city like you would have one in the

U .S., but there would be a huge difference in terms of the number of people you would see walking.

The cities here in America, everyone is driving, basically. But then in Nairobi, you see so many people walking.

That would be a difference. The other difference would be Nairobi has a number of slum dwellers, people who live in very low, you know, slum areas where their housing is basically very poor.

So, that's another difference. I suppose even here you have homeless people.

So, it would be a city like any other, I would say. Well, thank you,

RJ. And keep listening to Iron Sherp and Zion Radio and spreading the word in White Plains, New York and beyond.

We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who asks, Can you tell us what are the greatest rivals of biblical

Christianity in Nairobi? What are the primary cults and false religions that are having a tug -of -war with true

Bible believers over the souls of the lost? I would say the biggest or the largest group that we are dealing with.

I mean, there are so many, but the largest group right now is the Way of Faith movement. They promise earthly, temporal blessings while we are promising people eternal and permanent and irrevocable blessings in Christ.

But because so many would walk by sight and not by faith, they see their promises as more appealing.

And so, they have such a huge following and so much money as a result, also because of the way they ask for people to give, you know, promising them that if they give, then they would be blessed by God.

So, the huge movement would be the Word of Faith, and that's because they've infiltrated even what you would regard as ministering

Christianity. There would be Word of Faith in Presbyterian churches, in Baptist churches, in Methodist churches, even in Roman Catholic churches.

So, the Word of Faith movement would be the greatest enemy of the gospel in Kenya.

There are other movements like the Jehovah's Witnesses, the

Mormons are expanding pretty fast, and obviously there is the Islam as well.

You know, it's interesting that the Mormons would be a threat in Africa, because that,

I would assume, must involve ignorance on the part of many of the black

Africans in regard to the history of Mormonism, which was clearly a racist cult.

And people, I have spoken with Mormons, and they get very upset when I say this, and they will say that, well, you are a

Baptist, and there are Baptists in the Ku Klux Klan. Well, there's a difference between a

Baptist who is a moron heading for hell, and a prophet of the

Mormon church who spoke racist things as commands of God, and the laws of God, as divine revelation straight from God through his lips.

That is an entirely different scenario when you have Brigham Young writing things in their sacred documents that involve blacks not being able to achieve progression to godhood as they believe faithful Mormons will achieve if they are obedient to their religious teachings and practices.

The teachings of the Mormon church before the 1970s,

I did say 1970s, was that blacks could only achieve the level of servants of whites in the celestial kingdom.

So this is a really evil and racist religion that only changed its views out of convenience of losing tax -exempt status for their schools and so on.

But if you could respond to that. Yeah, I don't think many

Kenyans would know that. You know, people would just follow a religion, not so much try to find out what happened, but what tenets they may have had in the past, or even now.

I know of people who are members, who've been members of a church for 20 years, but they've never read their own church constitution.

So there would be a lot of ignorance when it comes to spiritual things, generally speaking. People would wake up in the morning, go to work, do all due diligence about work or about school, but they would be less careful and diligent when it comes to spiritual matters, which

I don't understand. But anyway, the Mormons would be appealing to an average

Kenyan because they present themselves as a very prosperous, very wealthy community.

Yeah, their buildings and so forth are typically very well -built and stunning to look at.

Yeah, and well -manicured loans would be very appealing. So that's the kind of thing that would appeal to many

Kenyans who have come from a very poor background. Especially the temples, the ward chapels would not be necessarily all that interesting to look at.

But do they have a temple in Nairobi? A temple?

Do they call their buildings temples? Just the temples are specific, sacred places that are not the ordinary places where they gather every

Sunday. That's where they have weddings and other things that are more sacred in their religion.

I wouldn't know. I don't know. Okay. Let me try again. Well, we have to go to our midway break right now.

This is a longer than normal break. It is longer because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break so that they can air their own commercials and their own public service announcements to localize

Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida. Please use this time to write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently patronize them.

Because the more you patronize our advertisers, the more likely they will remain our advertisers, which means the more likely we will remain on the air because we rely on their financial support.

But also, take this time to write in questions for our guest, Marangi Igueta at ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name, city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal private matter.

Don't go away. God willing, we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors. Listening to Christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually.

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I'm so delighted that my friend Chris Arnzen will be heading down to Atlanta for the next G3 conference from January 17th to the 19th, 2019, where I'll be joining a very impressive lineup of speakers on the theme,

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Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

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That's yours free by ordering $50 or more worth of merchandise and mentioning Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. I just have a few announcements to let you know about before we return to Murungi, Igueta.

This weekend, the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York is having their

Creation and the Authority of the Bible conference featuring keynote speaker Dr. Robert W.

Carter of Creation Ministries International. That's Friday, September 21st and Saturday, September 22nd.

Word of Truth Church of Farmingville, Long Island is located on 1055 Portion Road in Farmingville and you can call them at 631 -806 -0614.

631 -806 -0614. And you can also go to their website wotchurch .com.

W -O -T standing for Word of Truth Church dot com. Then coming up, we have at the end of this month the conference that we informed you about earlier on in this program where my guest

Murungi Igueta is one of the speakers. That is the 2018 West Coast Bible Conference.

That's being held at Providence Bible Church in Sunnyside, California. And you can get more information on this conference at firstlovepublications .org

who is one of the key sponsors of this event. firstlovepublications .org. And the speakers of this conference include, as I mentioned already,

Murungi Igueta and Dr. R .W. Downing and Pastor Joe Jackowitz and Dr.

Eddie Dalcor and others. So we hope that you go to this conference if you live in Sunnyvale, California or nearby or if you can get there from wherever you live.

That's Providence Bible Church in Sunnyvale, California and that is the 2018 West Coast Bible Conference.

And once again you can go to firstlovepublications .org, firstlovepublications .org,

or you can even go to firstloveradio .org that live streams this program, firstloveradio .org.

Then coming up in October we have the

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals. Oh I'm sorry, it's not October. It is I'm sorry, it is

October and it's the Reformation Bible College. Man, I am losing my mind here.

Reformation Conference. The Reformation Conference being held by Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

That is our latest sponsor of Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

The conference that they are having is October 6th and the 7th on the theme, Why the Reformation Still Matters, featuring speaker

Mike Abendroth, senior pastor at Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston, Massachusetts. And if you want more details on the

Reformation Conference at Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, by the way

I intend to be there so I hope to meet you there if you go, you can go to gracebfc .com

forward slash conference. Grace BFC which stands for biblefellowshipchurch .com forward slash conference.

You can also call them at 717 -652 -5229 and please tell them that you heard about their conference and the

Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg from Chris Arnzen on Iron Trip and Zion Radio. Now we're going to the

November event, 9th and the 10th of November at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quakertown, Pennsylvania.

Same denomination, different congregation. Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quakertown, Pennsylvania is having the

Glory of the Cross Conference which is another conference in the series of Quakertown conferences on reform theology sponsored by the

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals. The speakers include David Garner, Ray Ortlund, Richard Phillips, Timothy Gibson, and Carlton Winn.

I plan on being there as well with an Iron Trip and Zion exhibitors booth. Go to alliancenet .org if you want to attend.

Alliancenet .org, click on events and then scroll down to Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology.

And then we have January 17th through the 19th, that's

Thursday, January 17th through the 19th, which is a Saturday, the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, more specifically

College Park, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta at the Georgia International Convention Center on the theme,

The Mission of God, A Biblical Understanding of Missions. The G3 Conference, by the way, stands for Grace, Gospel, and Glory, or at least those three words, perhaps in a different order.

I think it's Gospel, Grace, and Glory now that I think about it. And I am going to be there for my third year in a row.

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They are going to have, once again, a phenomenal lineup of speakers. Dr. James R.

White of Alpha Omega Ministries, John Piper, Stephen Lawson, Votie Balcombe, Mark Dever, Conrad M.

Beyway, my favorite preacher on the planet Earth, of Kabwatha Baptist Church, Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and also the

Chancellor of African Christian University. Tim Challies, Phil Johnson, the Executive Director of Grace TU, the ministry of John MacArthur.

We have Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, Stephen J. Nichols, President of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by R .C.

Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, and many more. So if you want more information, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

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That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest Pastor Morungi Egweta as we talk about the gospel of sovereign grace in Nairobi, Kenya, Africa.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the

USA and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal private matter.

The question now from Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania who says you were speaking about the word of faith movement being the most prevalent false gospel in Nairobi.

Can you explain how many years that has been the case there because one would wonder how after a sufficient number of years when people are still remaining in poverty why they would still believe that this gospel is real and that would lead me to the next question is

Nairobi an affluent area or is there a lot of poverty just like in some of the major cities of the

United States? How long?

I think it is in the early 80s that the word of faith preachers became a bit vocal and by the close of the century, close of the last century the word of faith movement became quite a big false record with especially with the coming in of CBN and many other mass media kind of evangelism.

So it's been there for quite a while and it almost appears like there is that that's the only way of doing of judgment here.

That's the only way of doing Christianity. So it's been there for quite a while. As I said the poverty levels will be quite high.

So Nairobi has a population of about 5 million people and of that there is a slum that has more than a million people living in it.

It's estimated that more than 50 percent of the population of Nairobi live in slum areas.

So it's not that affluent. I mean for the greater part you people who are living below the poverty line.

And I guess I think our listeners question, Arnie's question makes sense that why would people continue to believe that this is real when they remain in poverty after so many years.

I would think that many people would say, wait a minute, wait a minute. This stuff is supposed to be, if our faith in God is real, this stuff is supposed to happen if not instantaneously very quickly.

Why am I still as poor as can possibly be? And I'm sure that this is basically I think a universal phenomenon in any area of the world where there is poverty whether it's in Africa or in the

United States. But if you could tell us specifically, do you have any thoughts on that, about what Arnie was saying?

Yeah, I think what I would say is that the God of this world, the devil, has blighted people so that they do not see the truth as they should.

For many people who may even be educated, and I've seen people who are educated following a cult leader who is simply not preaching the truth.

So regardless of how irrational and how foolish it might appear to an outsider, unless the

Lord himself moves in the heart of a person, they remain blighted to the truth, their heart remains darkened, they cannot see the truth.

It takes the Holy Spirit to help people see the deception of the evil.

That's the answer that I would provide. Yeah, you know it's ironic when I hear very wise and biblical things like you just said.

The charismatic movement and the word of faith movement and the prosperity gospel, they will often make claims that they have a higher view of the

Holy Spirit than those that are cessationists, and even more specifically perhaps those of us who are

Calvinists. But isn't it interesting that we are the ones that believe that a man can't even have saving faith without a miracle of the

Holy Spirit. Right. I think that we have a higher view than they will ever have, especially since what we are claiming about the

Holy Spirit is actually biblical and true. Well, I think that they may have a noisy view of the

Holy Spirit, but they certainly don't have a higher view of the Holy Spirit.

You say a noisy view? A noisy view. I mean they are louder in talking about the

Holy Spirit, but even in talking about the Holy Spirit, what do they talk about? They talk about the gift of the

Holy Spirit, and they talk about miracles, healing, and all that. On our part, we talk about the

Holy Spirit being the one who gives spiritual life. Unless the

Holy Spirit regenerates Athena, there's no way, you know as the

Lord told Nicodemus, unless you be born again, you cannot see or enter the

Kingdom of God. And he said that it's the Holy Spirit who works in the hearts of people.

So regeneration depends on the Holy Spirit. It's the Holy Spirit who applies the work of Christ to sinners.

It is the Holy Spirit who produces the fruit of the Spirit in a believer.

It's the Holy Spirit who gives spiritual spiritual gifts. It's the Holy Spirit who seals us for glory.

It's the Holy Spirit who helps us. I mean, how can you say that the charismatic people have a higher view?

I would say they have a louder view of the Holy Spirit. And by the way,

I would say also that I want to make clear that I have many brethren in Christ who are

Pentecostal and charismatic who I share fellowship with, and a number of them are actually theologically reformed.

I don't want to broad brush or disparage the entire movement, but even many of my friends who are

Charismatics or Pentecostal admit that some of the worst heretics come out of their own movement.

But I don't want to broad brush and make it seem that I believe... I think that's helpful. I'm sorry, brother?

I said that's very helpful, but we don't want to, you know, paint with a broad brush. That's correct.

Amen. And we have a friend, a mutual friend, Pastor Joe Jackowitz of Christ Bible Church in Dublin, California, also the founder and president of First Love Radio, and he's also got a new position with Family Radio after their public repentance of the heresies of Harold Camping.

Joe Jackowitz, who was actually on the staff there many years ago at Family Radio, and he has now returned, since they have returned, to biblical soundness.

But he, as I said, he is the founder and president of First Love Radio that live streams Iron Trip and Zion every day.

He has a question. He says, please ask Pastor Murungi about the upcoming

First Love missions trip to Trinity Baptist Church of Nairobi, Kenya, Africa, where there will be a huge pastors conference and much literature distribution.

Can you please explain that? Yeah, we are trusting the Lord that in this coming year, in February, the church in Nairobi, Trinity Baptist Church, will host a pastors conference,

February 6th to 9th, when we hope to have Pastor Joe Jackowitz and other brethren come and expand the scriptures to the pastors in Nairobi.

That's one of the ways that we trust the Lord could use to bring the truth of the

Word of God, the true gospel. The theme of the conference is one true gospel, so that all the preachers, all the men in Nairobi, and whoever may attend, may know that salvation is by grace alone, through Christ alone, by faith in Him, for the glory of God.

Amen, and you can go to the website of Trinity Baptist Church of Nairobi, Kenya, Africa at trinity .or

.ke as in Edward. That's trinity .or .ke as in Edward.

You can find out more information about that conference. We are going to our final break right now.

That's a much shorter break than the last one. If you have questions for Pastor Murungi Igueta, please send them in now, or forever hold your peace, because we're rapidly running out of time.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away, we'll be right back with Pastor Murungi Igueta with our final segment of today's

Iron Trumpets Radio. every year.

It's great to see him there. You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place, which is a highlight.

Tons of stuff going on, tons of great speakers, and no matter where you are in the building, you will hear Chris Arnson's laugh, and that's worth the price of admission alone.

If you would like to join Phil, me, Chris, and a cavalcade of great preachers, and me, g3conference .com,

g3conference .com. Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, for am

I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man,

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That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750, that's 508 -528 -5750, or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our

TV program entitled, Resting in Grace. You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org,

that's providencebaptistchurchma .org, or even on sermonaudio .com. Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor

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S's in the middle. I hope to hear from you soon. God bless you. Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

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.nyc. Have a great day. And don't forget, folks, about the

Reformation Conference, Why the Reformation Still Matters, at Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, featuring guest speaker

Mike Ebenbroth, who is a pastor, conference speaker, and author. That's Saturday, October 6th, and Sunday, October 7th at Grace Bible Fellowship Church, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

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forward slash conference. And you could call Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, as well at 717 -652 -5229, 717 -652 -5229.

I hope to see you there, because I intend to be there both on Saturday, October 6th, and Sunday, October 7th, for the

Reformation Conference on Why the Reformation Still Matters. And we are now back with our final segment of today's program with Pastor Murungi Egweta.

And if you have a question, please send it now to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

You said earlier that the Reformed faith is somewhat of a minority, or not even somewhat of a minority, it's a very small minority in the

Nairobi area of Africa, Nairobi, Kenya. Is there cooperation of any kind with evangelicals outside of the

Reformed faith, especially because you're such a small number of Christians? How do things like that work there?

And perhaps you could also mention something about the interdenominational cooperation between Reformed churches of other denominations.

For instance, you might have Reformed Baptists, and Presbyterians, and maybe even possibly some

Reformed Anglicans, 39 Articles Anglicans, and so on. Tell us about that. So sadly, there are very few

Reformed churches in Kenya of any other nature other than the

Reformed Baptist. But at the beginning, earlier, 10 years ago, there was a collaboration between us and a

Presbyterian church and a Congregational church in setting up a pastor's conference.

But as years progressed, all these churches, these other two churches, fell into the hands of a

Reformed Baptist, and so that collaboration could not continue.

As it is right now, what we are seeing is more Reformed Baptist churches coming up, either being planted or existing local churches going in a

Reformed direction. For a long time, we were a lone racist in Nairobi, but as it is right now, there are about 10 churches in Nairobi that will be

Reformed, at least in their patriology, in their doctrine of salvation.

We ourselves, as a church, have been involved in planting many churches in Kenya over the years.

Especially in rural Kenya, we have planted more than 40 churches since we began, and some of these churches are now independently functioning as local churches.

So the Lord has blessed us to that extent, but still we are a very, very small minority in terms of our size and numbers.

But since the Lord uses His truth, we are sure that the gospel will continue to bear fruit, even as He Himself works in the heart of men.

Is there any collaboration with other churches? It's very hard to collaborate and to work together with churches that are not like -minded.

You know, it would tend to be more like a cooperative society if you're not joined together on the basis of truth.

It becomes very hard to work together because you're not of the same mind, you're not coming from the same discipline.

And even where we have such cooperation and collaboration with other churches, it has not gone on for long.

By the way, I was just curious, how close is Nairobi to Liberia in Africa?

So, Nairobi is in the eastern part of Africa, while Liberia is to the west of Africa.

And the distance between them would not be less than five hours of flight.

Wow. The only reason I ask that is that I received word today from Free Presbyterian Radio in Liberia, West Africa, 92 .5

FM. They have expressed to me a great interest in adding

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to their lineup there. David Dikenio, and I'm sorry,

David, if I'm mispronouncing your last name, Dikenio, but David, who is there on staff at the

Free Presbyterian Radio, 92 .5 FM in Liberia, had reached out to me, and hopefully that will come to fruition.

It'll be exciting to see what happens. We have, let's see here, we have

Ronald in eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who asks, I have heard Dr.

Conrad M. Bayway on your Iron Sharpens Iron Radio program state that sadly churches in Africa have tended toward adopting the pagan practices of witch doctors and other pagan religions and incorporated them with Christianity.

He has said that this is quite common. In Zambia, I was wondering if your guest in Nairobi has experienced or witnessed the same kind of thing going on there.

Conrad Bayway is potent. The practices that have been brought into churches are basically what was being practiced by witch doctors and sorcerers, so it's a way of, it's eclectic, to put it in other words.

So I agree with Conrad that these churches have just brought in traditional religion and incorporated, added on Christianity as another add -on, and eventually what you have is not

Christianity at all. So in other words, you have witnessed this in Nairobi as well?

Yes, in Nairobi and across Kenya, because I travel a lot in Kenya and even in Africa, and that's what

I see. Let me give an example. By the way, brother, your voice has once again become quiet.

If you could either turn up the volume on your mic or move closer to it or something. Okay. Is that clear now?

Well, it's, I think, a little louder. All right. I was just saying that Conrad Bayway is potent, and that's the situation in Kenya.

So I'm going to give an example where a preacher or a pastor, as they may call themselves, would tell this congregation that if they bought anointing oil, they would get olive oil, put it in bottles, and they would say that if you bought it and went and anointed your new car or your newly built home or your desk at your place of work, you're likely to be promoted, you're likely to have more money, and they would assure them that that's what's going to happen.

And then they are supposed to give them money to get this anointing oil. And that can be said of brooms, that is sweeping brooms, anchorships, they would promise people healing out of that.

And really, it is witchcraft. It's not more than that, because that's all unvisible.

Yes, that's obviously very common in Roman Catholicism as well, where you have merchants selling all kinds of so -called blessed items, whether they be statues or trinkets or baubles of other kinds, that have allegedly been given holy powers of some kind, even to protect the lives of people, just by having them on their bodies or something, just because they've been blessed, so -called, by a priest.

So it's interesting that those that would claim to be out of evangelicalism and out of the Protestant Reformation would have that kind of thing be resurrected amongst themselves, really mimicking the worst of Rome's heretics.

But we need to also thank God, because I also began hearing people say that we are tired of buying anointing oil, we are tired of buying anchorships and brooms.

These do not work. And I've constantly encouraged them not to thank the Lord Jesus Christ. So the

Lord is sharing a desire for the truth, and also giving them insights to know that this does not work.

Well, what I want you to do now, before we run out of time, is have five minutes, really, to just speak to the hearts of our listeners, give them all of what you would most want them to remember after this program, what you most want etched in their hearts and minds, if you could have now five minutes of uninterrupted time.

Thank you so much. I wish to draw our attention to the

Word of God in 1 Corinthians 2, where Paul says in the truth,

For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. And the point is, unless Christ becomes the center of our thinking, the center of our trust and of faith, everything else is not worth anything.

Because Christ and Him crucified is the hope, and the only hope for sinners.

Christ came into this world to save sinners, even the foremost. And any sinner, regardless of the sin that he's committed, or how long he's wallowed in sin, who turns to Jesus Christ in repentance and faith, depending on Christ and Him alone, he has absolute certainty of having the sins forgiven and having the hope of eternal life.

Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ will be saved. Paul says to Timothy that this is a trustworthy saying, and it's worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, even the foremost.

So no one should think that he is beyond the grace of God, on the one hand.

And on the other hand, those who have been saved by the grace of God have the assurance of knowing that they soon will enter the kingdom of God.

They will come into the presence of God and enter through the gates of the celestial city. That's the assurance that we have from the word of God.

And we need to rejoice in that truth and not lose it. Christians, we need to serve the

Lord, love the Lord, trust in Him, and spread the honors of the name of Christ across the globe, whether to our children at home, or to our spouses, or to our colleagues at work, wherever you are.

You need to be a faithful ambassador of Jesus Christ in your place of work and wherever you are.

And then we look forward to that time when we will forever be with the Lord. Thank you.

Amen. You mentioned that anyone who believes in Christ will be saved.

And can you tell us, since we do have time, what the difference, however, because this is a very serious thing, what the difference is between a true faith or belief and a false faith.

There are multitudes of people who say they believe in Jesus Christ and have faith in Jesus Christ.

But as Jesus Christ himself warned, as we read in Matthew, that there will be many that come to him that day, on the last day, the judgment day, and say,

Lord, Lord, did we not perform miracles in your name and cast out demons in your name? And he will say,

Be gone, you workers of unrighteousness. I never knew you. Obviously, these were not people who lost their salvation.

Jesus said to them, I never knew you. So if you could tell our listeners, what is the difference between true faith and false faith?

So true faith acknowledges that Jesus Christ and none other is the only one able to save by his work, his obedience, he perfectly obeyed the law of God, and by his death he paid the penalty due to us for our sin.

He, you believe in Christ and you repent of your sin, and that faith would be demonstrated by the kind of life that you live.

If you believe in Christ, you repent of your sins, then that would be shown in a life of obedience.

You obey the law of God, you love the gospel of Christ, and you want to live for his glory.

So any faith that falls short of holiness is not true faith. It may be spurious faith, it may be temporary faith, because, you know, the

Lord in the parable of the sower gave various categories of people, some who hear, and they rejoice in it, but then they do not persevere in it.

And others who hear, believe, that is, accept and trust in Christ, and live accordingly by bearing the fruit.

And that's the same gospel that John the Baptist was preaching, you bear the fruit of repentance.

And that's what Paul said, live a life worthy of repentance. So that's the difference.

Anyone who professes to believe in Christ, but is living a life of disobedience, is not living the true faith of Christ.

Well, we are out of time. I want to make sure that our listeners know that you can find out more information about Trinity Baptist Church of Nairobi at trinity .or

.ke. For more information about the conference that's being held, featuring our guests and others, you can go to firstloveradio .com.

That's firstloveradio .com. And that is the ministry of Joe Jackowitz.

And I'm sorry, firstloveradio .org. I apologize, firstloveradio .org.

And that is the ministry of Joe Jackowitz that live streams Iron Trip and Zion Radio every day, firstloveradio .org.

I want to thank you so much, Pastor Igueta, for being on the program. I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who wrote in questions.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.