September 19, 2018 Show with Murungi Igweta on “The Gospel of God’s Sovereign Grace in Nairobi, Kenya, Africa”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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Own questions. Now here's our host Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon. Cumberland County, Pennsylvania,.

Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 19th day of September 2018 and I am so delighted to have as my guest for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Morungi Igweta.

He is pastor of Trinity Baptist Church of Nairobi, Kenya, Africa and we are going to be addressing the theme, The Gospel of God's Sovereign Grace in Nairobi and we're also going to be announcing the 2018 West Coast Bible Conference where Morungi and a number of other speakers will be on the lineup at the Providence Baptist Church of Sunnyvale, California, coming up very soon.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens.

Iron Radio, Pastor Morungi Igweta. Thank you brother, thank you so much for having me here.

Oh, the pleasure is all mine brother, and am I pronouncing your name correctly?

You are, you are. Yeah, you're pronouncing my name correctly as if you're a Kenyan.

Great. And originally, Pastor Morungi was going to be right here next to me in the studio because he was visiting Carlisle, Pennsylvania on the 10th of this month, but I had an unexpected extended stay in Jacksonville, Florida, which did not enable me to arrive back in time to do the live program.

In fact, it was not only my plans, but it was Pastor Morungi's plans. He departed Carlisle, Pennsylvania earlier than he thought that he would be departing, and so therefore we had to postpone our face-to-face interview to a future date, but I'm so delighted we were able to schedule one today while he is here in the States.

Before we let our listeners know about the West Coast Bible Conference, tell our listeners about Trinity Baptist Church in.

Nairobi, Kenya, Africa. Thank you. Trinity Baptist Church is 78, so we are celebrating our 40th anniversary this year. Actually, the celebration itself has been on the scene. It's a church that was planted by Keith Vanderhill, who he went to university and became a Christian there.

It was converted to a Baptist church there in Aberystwyth, and along the line, he went to Kenya in 1968 as a Jew Christian, and that school where he was sent happened to be the very place where I was born, right?

A few yards from my home is the school where Keith taught providentially, but he taught me in the school for three years, and then went for seminary education at Westminster, Philadelphia. Then in 1975, the church in Aberystwyth sent him back to Kenya to plant the church, but the church did not take off until 1978 with Keith Vanderhill, who is now retired.

He retired three years ago and is in Liverpool now. Keith is in Nairobi. The church has 40 years. Our belief, we are ascribing to the 1889. Even right now, there are very few churches in Kenya that would, and even those that are reformed, most of them would ask AIDA directly.

So that's basically about Trinity Baptist Church, with a membership of 128 members now, and Eric Abual, and we have eight alongside us at Trinity Baptist Church. Praise God, and one of my former pastors,.

Mark Grimaldi, who still is pastoring Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island, New York, in Merrick, I remember before he became a pastor there, he was training for the mission field under Keith Vanderhill and was intending to stay there in Kenya as a missionary, but God had other plans and raised him up to be one of the pastors at Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick.

The West Coast Bible Conference and the Gospel Theme of the Talk

Well, coming up very soon, the West Coast, 2018 West Coast Bible Conference is being held at the Providence Bible Church of Sunnyvale, California, and I love the lineup, especially since some of these brethren on the lineup have been guests on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, and I have thoroughly enjoyed interviewing them, including Dr. W .R. Downing, pastor and professor and author, Dr. John Waldrip, pastor of Calvary Road Baptist Church in Monrovia, California, Dr. Paul Nelson, who's also a pastor, professor, and author, Dr. Eddie DelCour, professor of theology and author, Pastor Joe Jakiewicz, pastor and president of First Love Ministries and First Love Radio, which airs my program, Iron Trip and Zion Radio, every day via live streaming, and of course you, Pastor Murungi Igweta, pastor of Trinity Baptist Church of Nairobi, Kenya.

The only two of these men that I have not yet interviewed are Dr. Waldrip and Dr. Nelson, and I hope to interview both of them soon. In fact, we had once, not long ago, had Dr. Nelson scheduled to be interviewed, but something came up providentially that hindered that interview, but I do intend to get him on the program, perhaps to speak on his book on presuppositionalism at some point in the near future.

Tell us specifically what you will be speaking about.

At this conference. Biblical lined up, and myself would be, you know, there is that statement there in Acts 8 regarding Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch, basically told, the Bible says that he opened up his mouth, and beginning with this scripture, he told the good news about Jesus, and the point is that any biblical about Jesus Christ, it's about the gospel, and that whatever you may say or not say, he is a waste of my...

Well, this conference is being held very.

Soon, September 29th and September 30th at the Providence Bible Church of Sunnyvale, California, Sunnyvale, California. That's one word, by the way, Sunnyvale, and for more details on the conference, you can...

I'm looking at the flyer here, and for some reason I can't find any phone number. Well, if you want to attend the conference, you could at least go to the website of the church, the Providence Bible Church of Sunnyvale, California, and that website is, I'm getting that up right now, pbc-ca .org.

That's pbc, for Providence Bible Church, dash ca dot org, and there will be contact information for you there, so you can make arrangements to attend, and I would strongly urge you to attend because of the fine folks, the very impressive folks that are involved in the conference.

Salvation Testimony and Conversion from Roman Catholicism

Well, now it comes time for one of my favorite parts of the program. When I interview first-time guests, I typically have them give an account, a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include the religious atmosphere, if any, that they were raised in, and then what providential circumstances our sovereign Lord raised up in their lives to draw them to himself.

And save them. So, I'd like to know that about you, brother. By the way, brother, if you could,.

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, speak as closely to the speaker of whatever you're using.

As possible, because your voice is somewhat quiet. Thank you. Yes, I was raised in a Roman Catholic home, just about when I was 11 or so, actually, the Medieval Catholic Church against Protestant believers, and that disturbed me.

I wondered, how can Christians... So, the implication of that was that I decided I would not have anything to do with the Roman Catholic Church, and I told my mother that I wouldn't be attending church with her anymore.

I really felt very disillusioned, as I knew it. As the Bible says, that the Bible's healing of other Christians... Reading the Bible... So, near where he would give me books, and I would read them to read the Bible.

I read through the Bible, and I didn't want to go to church, and anyone who attempted to bring the Gospel, even though I read the Bible and read the religious books. And from that church, Knowing God by J .I. Parker, I read David's Annals as a non-believer, and so many other books like that.

Fast forward, and a few years down the line, I got a job in Nairobi, and I met with a former classmate who was looking for a job in Nairobi, and he said, if you come across any kind of a job, help me get a job.

And he said, if you want to get hold of me, on a Sunday morning, go to such and such a church, and you will find me by the church notice board. That's where I would usually go after the service, to see whether there would be any job openings in any of the companies, because the church used to do that.

So, two weeks down the line, I went, I got a job for him, and I went to look for him in this church. And very providentially, that Sunday morning was raining. As much as I didn't want to go into the church, I was only interested in my friends, I had to go in because I didn't want to get wet.

So I went in. As soon as I entered that church building, I put it in my heart, how brave I was, and how different I was from everyone else in the church. I looked at them, I didn't see them as a bunch of hypocrites, as I thought.

I saw them as sincere people who are worshiping God, they knew what they were doing, they were happy about it, and I thought, why should I not be like this? So the pastor of the church preached and eventually said, if you're there, you're troubled about the thing on my right, and we will speak with you about it.

And I found a man there, meaning that, I know why you've come, you cannot solve what you hear, but I'm sorry to tell you that I cannot solve this problem either. So I asked him, then why did you call me here?

Because I know the one who can, the Lord Jesus Christ. You repent of your sins now, you believe in him, and he would, no matter how, send the gospel of the grace that there is in Jesus Christ, of his mercy...

Praise God. Well, tell us about your journey into the Reformed faith, specifically. So, after three years, I thought to myself,.

What happened was that... Well, first of all, you have to tell us how you became a pastor.

You know, it's all very closely connected, linked up with, he kind of let me pastor that church, and we could do the church front up. And along the line, I met up with a man who was in the same meetings we've been invited to preach, and he told me that he wasn't going to make an altar call, and I was translating for him, so he said he wasn't going to ask for the altar call or the invitation.

Why would you preach and not invite people? He didn't explain to me, but he said, if you want to go and if you want to make an altar call, you're free to do that. We can talk about it later. So he preached, and he preached from John 8.

If you do not believe, I am saying, if you don't believe, you will perish. If you don't believe I am, you will perish. Make an altar call, and I thought, milk it, but you don't have a bucket. You're milking to the crowd.

That's the way... With everything he was saying, but it disturbed me that he wasn't going to ask people to be saved, because I personally felt like I would, I don't know, I'm not going to let this message go.

I will do it, because I was translating this and left and closed up their shops to come. I didn't have a passage except to a train in 2009. I moved in there, and in 2010, I became a pastor there. Now, the pastor who was initially speaking or preaching.

The same event where you were preaching and where you conducted the altar call, what was that preacher's name? The Reformed preacher? Yes, Michael. Okay. Now, if you wouldn't mind, because not all of the listeners of Iron Trump and Zion Radio are Reformed.

We have Arminian listeners, we even have non-Christian listeners, we have Muslim listeners on occasion, but tell us why, since that event, you have come to abandon the practice of the altar call. People might be confused by that.

I know that, first of all, it's obviously not a practice that is laid out in the scriptures. Of course, there are some things that we who are Christians do that are not laid out in the scriptures either, that we don't believe are violating scriptural principles, like handing out of tracts, for instance.

There's nothing in the Bible that says we are to hand out pieces of paper that have the gospel written on them and that kind of a thing. But when it comes to an altar call, there can be some dangerous and misleading elements that are attached to it.

I mean, obviously, I'm sure as a Reformed Baptist you believe that we are always to invite people to Christ, but that is not the same thing as walking down an aisle and saying a prayer, and especially when it goes into more serious problems is when a preacher or pastor declares that person with certainty that they are saved, just because they've read that prayer or recited it or repeated it.

But if you could, tell us about why you think the altar call system is something that we should abandon if we are.

Already doing it? Actually, where it comes from, the preacher declare the gospel and tell people the good news about repentance of their sins and take that first that belongs to the holy man, the important thing to get very dangerous.

The sinner believes that I have become a Christian because I have lifted up my hand, because I've moved forward to the preacher, because I've repeated the prayer itself. It's basically the preacher's prayer.

It's not the sinner to ask to go into mercy. No one should do it for him. It should not be done, but they might be made to believe that they are converted on the basis of what has happened, when they are not.

Because the Bible doesn't say that this is the way you are to be converted. If you use it, then the sinner would be made to believe that he's a believer when he is not, and live a sinful life when thinking that he's a believer, but he's not.

And that's why so many people would struggle, and so many sins. And so those people, the preachers who have had their people repeat the sinner's prayer, that they call nominal Christians, that is, people who identify themselves openly with Christianity, but they are not showing the fruit of repentance.

I believe that the altar call... Yeah, it might be a big surprise to a lot of our listeners who are unaware of this,.

But the altar call, or the invitation system, where you invite people to walk forward to where the preacher is standing, so that you can say a prayer with him and be declared a saved individual, that did not even exist for the entirety of church history until the 19th century, and Charles Finney basically was the originator of that practice.

It began with the anxious bench, I believe, and then it morphed into the altar call. And a lot of people might be shocked to hear that, because they think that this is such a vital, a key element of Christian worship and of evangelism.

They treat it like a third sacrament, or a third ordinance. I mean, there's much ceremony involved in it. There's usually music playing in the background. There is a solemn type of parade going on here, especially if you have a lot of people coming forward.

And this kind of thing was never occurring in churches, in Bible-believing churches, ever in the history of the church. So, for someone to automatically assume that if you do not have these practices, that you are not concerned about the lost, that you are not interested in evangelizing, and that kind of a thing, that you're a hyper-Calvinist, all kinds of accusations that are hurled against those that don't have altar calls, you've got to look into, number one, the Bible to find one, to prove that that should be a part of the regular practice of the church.

But also, you go through the annals of history and you won't find it until the 19th century. I can remember, on a number of occasions, visitors who were not Reformed, not Sovereign Grace-believing Christians, who would hear one of my pastors preach a powerful message, and then conclude with a prayer, telling people to call out to God, of course, to repent and call out to God where they were sitting.

And I can recall, on a number of times, these non-Reformed Christians saying to me afterwards, he blew it! Your pastor blew it! He gave this wonderful sermon, this powerful sermon, and then when he could have invited people to come forward to be saved, he just didn't do it, and these people might go home, they may get hit by a car, they may die and go to hell.

Now, it's really frightening when you think that a Christian would put that much weight in the power of the so-called altar call as if that is going to determine the eternal destiny of people who hear a sermon.

That's when it really, you can see that it has become an idol to people when they go that far.

Yes, and I think we have the Lord... Yes, even I think Ian Murray, if I'm not mistaken, was saved.

At a Billy Graham crusade through an altar call. I'm pretty certain that was the case, and I believe possibly even Errol Hulls, I'm not sure, but I know that people that have been saved by the providence and sovereignty of God during an altar call have even, have even eventually written against the practice, even though God used it to save them personally.

The way I see it, it would be wrong for us... And he uses a flawed method every time we open.

Our mouths and tell people about the gospel and about the Bible, and every time, as eloquent and as powerful and as gifted as a preacher is, there is a flawed element of what he is saying and doing, because otherwise he would be speaking as an apostle the God-breathed words that would be.

Coming right through him miraculously. Yes, and I think it is in the Bible alone, because it's only the Bible that is... We have to go to our first station break.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for Morungi Egweta, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com. You can ask him any question that you would ask any pastor.

You could ask him specifically about Kenya, about specifically Nairobi. You can ask him about his testimony that he gave earlier. You can ask him just a theological, a doctrinal question. We would welcome all of that, and our email address is c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com.

That's chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages from.

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717 -652 -5229. We are now back with our guest today, Pastor Murungi Igueta, who is pastor of Trinity Baptist Church in Nairobi, Kenya, Africa, and Pastor, before we go to any listener questions, I just want to follow up a little bit with our discussion on the altar call.

I think we have to be also clear that there are churches, there are dead, mainline, liberal apostate churches that do not have altar calls because they don't even believe the people hearing the message have any need of salvation.

They don't believe in the altar call for an entirely different reason, and we would join those that have altar calls in giving them these mainline or liberal or apostate churches a stern rebuke and a call to repentance because they are just as lost from behind the pulpit as those in their pews listening to them speak.

So we do know that there are people that don't have altar calls for entirely wrong reasons. And we do have a listener in Cork, Ireland. We have Mary in Cork, Ireland, and her question is, I am aware of many Africans who are into the faith movement and the prosperity gospel, I think she means the word of faith movement, perhaps.

Can you tell me, do you know of any who have departed from this false gospel and come to the reformed beliefs? If so, do some or any attend your reformed church? Thank you for taking time to read this question.

God bless you. That's Mary in Cork, Ireland.

Yes, I know of so many men, my best friend, who is actually some of the men who was teached in the word of faith movement and are now denouncing it, the death of faith in the word of faith movement. It's an excellent article.

I do know of people who have come from that background, and even at our own church, in Trinity Baptist Church, we have many.

And I know, personally, a pastor here in the United States who's actually originally from the United Kingdom, from England, Pastor John Sampson. He has been a guest on Iron Trepans Iron Radio a number of times.

And Pastor John Sampson was not only a believer in the word of faith movement at one time, he was also a pastor in the word of faith movement, and he was also a television talk show host on the Trinity Broadcasting Network, which is a word of faith television network.

And he not only departed from that movement, but he became a cessationist and a reformed Baptist, and he is pastoring the King's Church there in Arizona. And I know that it's in the Phoenix area. I just can't remember right off the top of my head what city, but I will get that information to our listeners if you email me and ask me about Pastor John Sampson, if you happen to live near Arizona or live in Arizona or plan to visit there or have loved ones there.

Nairobi, Kenya: Urban Life, Poverty, and the Influence of False Gospels

Let's see, we have RJ in White Plains, New York, who says, Can you tell us something about the physical description of Nairobi, Kenya? Many of us who do not live in Africa or who have never visited there may have all kinds of ideas and pictures in our mind that do not fit the reality.

We may think of Africa as all jungle or all desert or what have you, but I know that there are cities and other more built-up areas that would not fit the typical stereotypical picture of Africa. Hmm, that's interesting.

A typical stereotypical. But if you could, respond to RJ in White Plains, New York.

It's modern in every the number of people you would see walking. The cities here in America, everyone is driving, basically. But then in Nairobi, you see so many people walking. That would be a difference.

The other difference would be that Nairobi has a very low, very...

Well, thank you, RJ. And keep listening to Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio and spreading the word in White Plains, New York and beyond. We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who asks, Can you tell us what are the greatest rivals of biblical Christianity in Nairobi?

What are the primary cults and false religions that are having a tug-of-war with true Bible.

Believers over the souls of the lost? You know, it's interesting that the Mormons would be a.

Threat in Africa because that, I would assume, must involve ignorance on the part of many of the black Africans in regard to the history of Mormonism, which was clearly a racist cult. And people, I have spoken with Mormons and they get very upset when I say this.

And they will say that, Well, you are a Baptist and there are Baptists in the Ku Klux Klan. Well, there's a difference between a Baptist who is a moron heading for hell and a prophet of the Mormon church who spoke racist things as commands of God and the laws of God as divine revelation straight from God through his lips.

That is an entirely different scenario when you have Brigham Young writing things in their sacred documents that involve blacks not being able to achieve progression to godhood as they believe faithful Mormons will achieve if they are obedient to their religious teachings and practices.

The teachings of the Mormon church before the 1970s, I did say 1970s, was that blacks could only achieve the level of servants of whites in the celestial kingdom. So this is a really evil and racist religion that only changed its views out of convenience of losing tax-exempt status for their schools and so on.

But if you could respond to that.

I know of people who have been members of a church, so there would be a lot of ignorance, generalistic. Wake up in the morning, go to work or about school, which I don't understand. But anyway, the Mormons would be appealing to an average Kenyan because they present themselves as a very prosperous, very wealthy community.

Their buildings and so forth are typically very well-built and stunning to look at. Yeah, and well-manicured lawns would be very appealing. I don't think that would appeal to many Kenyans. Yeah, especially the temples, the ward chapels.

Would not be necessarily all that interesting to look at. But do they have a temple in Nairobi? The temples are specific sacred places that are not the ordinary places where they gather every Sunday. That's where they have weddings and other things that are more sacred in their religion.

No. Okay. Well, we have to go to our midway break right now. This is a longer than normal break. It is longer because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break so that they can air their own commercials and their own public service announcements to localize Iron Trump and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida.