Did Jesus Die on Friday plus Open Q&A

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00:14

Mr. Smalley do you believe that abortion is moral? Oh boy I'm glad I'm debating him instead of you

00:33

Well, we are live apologetics live here to answer your questions about God and the

00:44

Bible we can answer any question You have about God in the Bible You doubt that well, come on in and take the challenge.

00:52

I do here in rumor has it that mr Chris Han holds is gonna be watching tonight Host of voice of reason radio.

01:00

He had the day off. So we're gonna see what kind of comments he has But I think everybody in the that are that are if he starts commenting folks.

01:07

I want you to start Encouraging him to actually join Let's see if we can get

01:13

Chris Han holds to join us. All right so tonight we're gonna start off with the topic of the what day did

01:20

Jesus die and That's gonna be the before we get to open

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Q &A, but we're gonna do open Q &A tonight And so if you guys have any questions,

01:30

I'll good Chris Han holds is here. He says he's here I don't see him backstage here though. So folks get him to come on.

01:37

All right, so With that let's bring in. Dr. Sylvester who is in the dark

01:43

Hey, good night With your camera what's with your settings there, but you know,

01:50

I have no idea I really should start recording early so people can watch what happens when you try to like For folks who don't understand

01:58

Anthony has the easiest equipment We got him the easiest equipment to work with and yet every week.

02:04

He can't figure out how to get it working Can you hear me? Can you I can't hear you It's it's like we have to spend 30 minutes getting him set up again and again and again

02:14

I'm like just don't touch the equipment. I mean, I always know how to fix it It's it the settings always get knocked off in the computer.

02:21

I have no idea how this happens There's nothing that has to change

02:30

It's it's really it's really sad No, I know we do have our cluck commander here there he there he is

02:36

I'm so thankful we finally got the chickens back on Yes, so so we we have

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John sort of with us and so Anthony, we

02:49

We do have a couple events coming up. We just we just planned we you and I just booked our flights and all for Bula Baptist Church May 7th 8th and 9th and 10th.

03:00

Actually, that's a Friday all the way to Monday Yeah, you and I and Justin Peters will all be doing a snatch them from the flames seminar

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It's one of the seminars we have that's a discernment seminar. So if you're anywhere in the

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Winter Garden area That's in the Orlando area So Florida you please go to Bula Baptist Church and so you can register and be there for that event

03:26

We'll also be the three of us Justin Peters Anthony and I will also be at cruciform conference in June For I think that's the first week in June go to a cruciform conference

03:39

Anthony you're speaking you and I are guests are speaking at the pre conference as well. So on apologetics

03:46

So, I guess excited I've got two hours to teach lay level priests up so One of my favorite things to do.

03:53

I think you only one hour. I have to Well, I Gotta figure out what

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I'm gonna do because I'm gonna be teaching priests up So I guess if I go first I get to steal all your thunder Yeah, I'll just do it better That Is exciting that a couple of those conferences coming up not to mention

04:16

Israel in six months. That's right prices did go up as of today for the

04:23

Israel trip, but If you want to join us in Israel, let me get that banner up wherever that is it.

04:30

You just have to go to Israel tour 2021 Dot -com

04:36

Israel tour 2021 calm to join us in Israel this October The I know the price went up by $100, but it's still

04:47

That trip, although it's expensive. It includes all your hotels two meals a day the

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Includes a the bus driver and the guides and and everything so And I heard that the rumor is that prices are gonna be going up in Israel even more so That That might be a reason to come now so Chris Han holds is saying

05:16

Andrew you need to oh Andrew I think you just cut yourself out.

05:22

So On that Chris. I just I just sent you. Oh, there you go.

05:28

I don't know what had just happened I just dropped out for something dropped out. Yeah, but I took over there's no big deal

05:33

So Chris Han holds wants the link. The link is really simple Chris. It's the same link every time all you have to do is go to apologetics live calm and There's a little duck icon you click on that.

05:48

It was so easy. Oh wait No, I was gonna say it was so easy Anthony could do it, but I'm in way

05:55

All right. So so why don't we I'm gonna bring in Your a .m.

06:01

Brewster well before before we get to this though, Andrew There's one other thing we wanted to bring up tonight before that's right.

06:07

Okay, I'm gonna put him back That's right. So we want it. We want to bring this up because we here there were two things two things

06:14

Okay. Well, one of them is we heard through the grapevine That's some before you get to that though.

06:19

That's the thing I'm saying. Okay, then say it first I meant I meant to do this. I meant to welcome all of the atheists watching on their national holiday

06:28

Welcome to National Atheist Day April Fool's Day Because we know that some 14 says the fool says in his heart there is no

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God so welcome April 1st National Atheist Day April Fool's Day.

06:46

Okay now to a more serious matter well, it is pretty serious to but No, so, you know, we've we've heard rumors.

06:54

That's a While we did a number of shows last year on the cultish practices of of the church in Davenport, Iowa pastored by and I say that loosely by Mike Reed and The church attended by Tony Miano that we have done a number of shows that's a

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Showing what victims have said regarding the spiritual abuse abusive practices by Mike Reed and his other two elders

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And Mike has refused time and time again to come on to the show he's refused time and time again to publicly put out statements as to whether he still believes the stuff that that's a

07:38

Has happened in the past whether he still preaches on the same things He was preaching four or five six years ago about some of the really weird and sinful doctrines

07:48

That's a that he teaches and I know Andrew you came up with a list of questions

07:54

Yep, 12 very simple questions such as do you meet with women alone on a regular basis?

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We can give the these questions again If you want and and these questions still have not been answered even in what you're about to announce

08:08

These questions still have not been answered Yeah, so do you want to read them all? Yeah Do you meet alone with women on a regular basis?

08:17

Do you ask for details of spousal intimacy? Have you ever said quote to not trust the elders unquote is to quote not trust

08:27

God unquote Number four. Have you ever said whatever the elders would counsel for you for your life is perfect Number five.

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Have you ever said that GFC is the only true church in the Quad Cities number six?

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Do you believe the elders have? Nearly unlimited authority in the lives of congregants.

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Have you ever said if someone owns a gun is In the military or police they have premeditated murder in their hearts

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Do you share details about counseling sessions with other members? Did you ever imply that men and women should be able to kiss someone else on the lips that is not his or her spouse?

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Have you ever shared details of your own sexual intimacy With any of the people in your counseling sessions with members of the opposite sex

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Do you believe you are in foul? infallible against sexual immorality and the last one do by name what specific pastors theologians and or teachers have you

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Condoned the practice of meeting with women alone in counseling sessions

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So those were the 12 questions that we had yeah, and I can assure you on that last question that that Phil Johnson and Justin Peters are not two of them because I've spoken with both of them personally and So even though there's been rumors about out there that Phil has has condoned this or has been okay with it

09:58

That is absolutely completely false Absolutely completely false

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So having said all these questions Andrew Very simple to answer right and and he knows these questions are out there.

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He's been given these questions He's decided not to answer these questions And so what we have found out in recent times is that Mike Reed decided to do a response video

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He and his elders and they did a response video for their Congregation now what that was a great video, right?

10:29

I mean you you got to see it and and get all the answers to the questions, right?

10:34

Oh, yeah That was a that was a great great video. Yeah fools Yeah.

10:40

Yeah is apparently his response video for our questions Was not given to the public.

10:48

It was only allowed to be shown to people who were in the church well, in fact, in fact, it was sent to people that I spoke to at Grace Community Church and And it was and and the issue that came up is

11:04

Tony Miano was gonna be coming back out there to be able to do some evangelism and they heard about they actually some folks over there watched all of the episodes we did on dangerous doctrines and so in that What ends up happening is they gave a response video to I guess some of the elders over there at Grace Community Church But you know who hasn't gotten the video that's responding to what we've done

11:35

Us Yeah, you know who else hasn't gotten it Kevin and Jen Yant who are the ones who were the big whistleblowers a couple years ago and have continued to be whistleblowers

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They also have not gotten the opportunity. In fact, Mike Reed does not want to talk to them at all unless Unless Kevin and Jen fly across the country and go back to their church and meet in front of their elders

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With nobody else present in order to levy charges and and that's the thing that I mean

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I do find it very interesting that someone would do a response video to the work we did but they don't want us to see it

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And and even the folks that did have it I guess were you know, it was given to them with I guess instructions not to share it

12:21

And so Kevin has requested it does seem strange I did ask someone who who at least got to see it and said

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Have they first off? Is there anything that we said that they said we got inaccurate?

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Or is there anything that you know where they felt they needed to correct some we said did they answer any of the the dozen?

12:41

Questions we asked and basically the answer was they they really didn't answer the questions They they didn't in this response video that we can't see

12:52

I just I do think it's strange you respond to someone But you don't want the person you're responding.

12:58

You know that just the you you You want people to see it, but not the person that actually kind of levied the accusation almost as if they don't want people to know that this exists because They don't want anyone to see their poor responses maybe or someone to Question their responses.

13:20

Yeah, it's almost it's almost like they want to control the narrative like the Democrat Party. Yeah, that's right

13:27

So on that if there's anybody who can get their hands on a video or if there's anybody who has left Mike Reed's church and Has a copy of that video.

13:35

We'd love to have a copy of it and we'd love to We'd love to show it live and and work through it

13:43

So, all right, and so for folks real quick for folks on Facebook Anthony sometimes will also respond to folks on Chat, so if people on Facebook are wondering why it says we will bond servants from striving fraternity ministries it's because Anthony doesn't know how to click the little box at the bottom that says to choose between Facebook and YouTube so he's responding to someone on YouTube It's amazing that Anthony knows how to drill in people's teeth, okay, it's just it's just I can do blindfolded

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Right. So let's bring in a ham rooster now so so Anthony, you know,

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I don't I don't know that you know Aaron very well, I do not but he's one of the podcast actually

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He has two of the podcasts in the Christian podcast community But I'm gonna ask you

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Aaron to introduce yourself and it's one of your podcasts on that actually brought about this topic but you you know, this is coming

14:48

Aaron, you know, I'm gonna make you have to explain this but He's an actual ninja. I'm gonna let him explain it

14:56

Before I do that. I'm gonna say Anthony Apparently I know a lot more about you than you know about me because man what he's been saying about you for the past 16 minutes is just it's gold.

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It's absolute gold So I'm glad you have a chance now to get to know me a little bit. Yeah Usually doing this to me.

15:12

Trust me Yeah, so I'm a ninja, right?

15:18

That's okay. That's the thing. So I actually been studying the martial arts since I was 12 years old.

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I Have studied over 10 different styles. I've been teaching since I was 15

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I have three different black belts one in tang sudo one in a traditional form of ninjutsu and one in a modernized

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Ninjutsu, I have a first degree a third degree and I have a fifth degree black belt in the modern ninjutsu

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So technically when you study ninjutsu when you become a black belt, you are officially a ninja now

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It's you know, it's nothing like Hollywood Andrew. I keep having to tell him he doesn't listen I know it's not like the smoke bombs and the climbing of walls and all that kind It's just it's not but he just so, you know,

16:00

I maybe that's why I wore all black today. I did it for you. Yeah Wait, so you're saying that you don't do all this just to prepare for the

16:08

TV show It's true. It's true. I don't I don't I thought that's what being a ninja was all about Exactly Modern or was it was it

16:18

American Ninja Warrior? That's what it is. Yeah. I watch those people and I just go Wow, you know and probably in real life

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They can climb a rope and get over a wall and do all that kind of stuff But I could still beat him up.

16:32

So I just have that I feel better about myself Please tell me you at least know how to throw those little star things, right?

16:37

Yes. Yes I do. I have studied most of the traditional weapons. My favorites are the

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Nunchaku or as we would call them nunchucks and the bow which is like the six -foot staff.

16:50

Oh Yeah, one of the Ninja Turtles had that Donatello man. Let's hello. Yeah, that's cool Yeah, I got black belts and ar -15 sig p9 38 and a few others

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That's about all I have a similar one in the Springfield XDS mod, too

17:06

I so I have that that one of those similar belts ranks All right, so so Aaron on one of your podcasts celebration of God and I put up a banner folks if you want to check out his podcasts

17:22

He is two of them one is truth love parent podcast Both of his podcast celebration of God and truth love parent are both available at the

17:33

Christian podcast community Go to Christian podcast community dot org and you can find both of them there and subscribe to them excellent podcasts

17:41

I was actually listening to his podcast before he joined And so when he joined

17:47

I was like, oh this is easy So But you had a podcast

17:53

I'm gonna let you you start off I I don't know if you got a chance to listen. I about two years ago on my daily pop rap report podcast

18:00

That's a two -minute one. I had dealt with the question of the day that Jesus died and I thoroughly

18:07

You know proved without a shadow of a doubt that that Friday the traditional day is the accurate day

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And and so you mistakenly have gone on your podcast and decided to to say that that you know

18:21

You actually think it was Thursday So, but I wanted to I thought you know with with Resurrection Sunday coming up You know with whether today is good

18:33

Thursday or for us good Friday tomorrow. This would be a good starter topic

18:39

So I why don't you go through quickly for folks who didn't listen get chance to listen to your podcast

18:44

Go through your your position with why you think that? Why it was

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Thursday was the day Christ died There we go.

18:55

I'm back You know, I asked him if this was going to be a discussion or debate. He says oh, it's just a discussion I'm kind of getting that debate feel.

19:01

I don't know. I'm kind of feeling like the uh, Like I need to get my sparring gear on or something. Um Yeah, it's the celebration of God so this is uh, this whole thing about Easter has been a uh,

19:12

Something i've been working on for all over five years now It's just uh been one of those things that's just a passion.

19:17

I as a follower of Christ. I wanted to understand Uh these and answer these big questions that I had

19:23

Now I listened to your podcast actually I did and I think you did um a great job It's exactly what I would have expected to hear.

19:29

It's a fact. It's exactly what I Believed uh for the majority of my life With with the occasion.

19:36

I mean as growing up as a child. I always had these questions in my head on Easter You know the big theological questions that every kid asked their parents but for the most part

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You know when it came right down to it. I just accepted that Jesus Christ was crucified on Friday And uh, and that was that uh, and so I I loved what you said how you put it out there

19:56

And the fact that you could do it in two minutes, uh, even just eight minutes all of them together was amazing to me I hope you're not expecting me to do the same thing um

20:03

There are three main points that I like to focus on One of them was the main one that you addressed and so i'll start with that and that has to do with the number three right um, and of course everyone who's a christian who's read the scriptures knows that uh,

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The number three when it came to you know, jesus rising three days later was extremely uh important and uh desperately, you know

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It was it needed to be fulfilling prophecy and so on and so forth and all throughout the scriptures He talks about in three days and the prophets talk about in three days and so on and so forth

20:33

But there's one passage in particular uh Being one that sticks out to me as being a significant issue with the friday night friday crucifixion

20:47

And friday burial and that's the fact that it's the uh, The passage of matthew 12 40 where christ says for as jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly

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So shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth This is known as christ's sign of jonah

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It comes from jonah 117 that talks about how the lord appointed a great fish to swallow jonah And he was in the stomach of the fish three days and three nights now in sunday school

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Uh, we know when they have the the felt board, right? Um, and they have jonah and they've got the the whale and everything

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Um, everyone just accepts the fact that he was in the belly of the whale for three days and for three nights

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Um, and we don't have an issue with that. Everyone's fine with that So here christ is quoting that in two times in the same passage.

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He says um Just as he was in the belly of the whale or the fish for three days and three nights

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So the son of man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights and uh one big one big question

21:43

I have about that is the fact that If he were buried during the daytime hours on friday

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Now, by the way, what you said about the word day Uh in your podcast being able to be used for a portion of a day a full day

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Even just an age which could be a ton of days is 100 % correct for the hebrew usage of the word

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Even the greek usage of the word, uh, the word day didn't need to always refer to a 24 hour day

22:07

And I agree with that. Um, but still even with that said even though we could say, you know, friday saturday sunday three days um when we look specifically at that passage where christ makes a big deal out of saying three days and three nights if he were

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Buried during the daytime hours on friday and then rose on the uh before the daytime hours

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The bible is very clear about rising before the daytime hours on sunday. That's only two days and two nights

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That would be friday day in the grave now a portion of the day, which would count as the whole thing friday night saturday day

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Saturday night he raises before sunday day Therefore it was only two days and two nights in the grave and I think in the exact same way that we take

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Jonah, you know, uh for what it is literally, uh that he was in the whale for three days and three nights Uh, I think it's very important that we take christ literally here, which is why he specifically made it a point to say that So do you want me to get to the other points too?

23:04

Or do you want to have a chance to answer that? How do you want to do this discussion debate slash thing? um, well i'll say this and and I'll kind of I guess correct a little bit because I would argue he with that it was he was

23:18

He would be buried for three days and two nights maybe then Not two because right he was in the ground friday

23:25

Yeah before sundown and that's one of the things that I dealt with on my podcast is that it's sundown is the is the time break so friday day saturday day and then

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Sunday in the morning was sun, you know is now sunday So pardon, can I say something to that real quick?

23:43

Because that's a that's a totally fair observation I think one of the important things we need to remember though, and I have a feeling i've heard you talk about this before So forgive me if i'm wrong

23:52

Um, but the jews historically during that time and even nowadays don't count time the same way we do correct

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They have the evening and the morning basically the evening and the day being their day And one of the really important elements,

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I believe of christ's rising and the bible specifically says before dawn Before dawn every single time, you know rising before dawn

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Uh is the fact that he didn't actually get into the what would be considered the jewish daytime hours

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He was in the jewish evening hours of sunday But he wasn't in the jewish daytime hours of sunday, which

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I think is a really important observation to to look at yeah, and so I think I think there what we get to is the question of because I think this is where we end up differing right it's either the

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Three days and three nights is literally three days and three nights or it's just referring to three period three days of time

24:46

Uh in which you have either one and so I mean my argument Is and and and I would agree that the passage you bring out is probably the strongest argument.

24:57

I know of for a thursday burial Oh, man, I can't wait to show you the other stuff then if that's what you think

25:04

We forget I already listened to both your podcasts on this oh, but I got more I brought more Okay All right, so that's the one thing and like I said you uh, you uh, you answer that Um, the two other points are the and the second one is kind of a smorgasbord.

25:20

It's a it's a a potpourri miscellaneous category I just called the textual questions Um, because there are some important textual questions that all apply to this particular thing

25:30

I'm going to go through this as quickly as I can. Uh, but it's so fascinating for me I hope you guys uh think equally that it's cool

25:36

Um, one of the questions that gets asked a lot in regard to this is when was the passover actually observed?

25:42

Um, because there are some uh, there are some passages in the scripture that give us that confuse people

25:47

I'll just put it that that way it talks about jesus observing the passover with his disciples Um, but then it talks about the fact that that what we call the last supper actually was before the passover

25:58

And so uh just to simplify this, uh, really during that time period historically the passover was observed at two different times

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And in two different places We know from exodus 12 7 that god originally prescribed through moses that the passover would be celebrated at twilight

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On nissan 14 now nissan is the jewish month and the day 14 They don't say like the 14th of nissan like we do they say nissan 14

26:20

And that was the day that god prescribed way back in exodus and the families were meeting together at twilight

26:26

They were slaughtering the lamb in their home. They were putting it up on the on the doorposts and they were celebrating that together.

26:32

However Long before the time of jesus many jews specifically the religious leaders had started observing the passover in the temple

26:39

This started during the reforms of josiah and second chronicles 30 and 35 And I wanted to quote from the encyclopedia judea judeica because I think it's really uh fascinating He says quote the first passover consists of sorry

26:52

The feast of passover consists of two parts the passover ceremony and the feast of unleavened bread

26:57

Originally both parts existed separately, but at the beginning of the babylonian exile they were combined

27:03

Now concerning this practice david crabbe makes this really interesting observation He says this careless and unscriptural merging of festivals resulted in the jews observing passover late on Abib 14 or nissan 14 as it was later

27:17

Renamed just hours before the feast of unleavened bread Thus a third variation of passover observance was added to the mix

27:24

So there was a lot of confusion and people were honestly doing passover in different ways at different times

27:30

So here's my conclusion. Uh, you're not going to like the day but just stick with me for a minute jesus and his disciples

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Followed the traditional observance of the passover which makes all the sense in the world that he would do that because that's what it was instituted by god the father

27:43

And that was on nissan 14, which was the date of the passover. But of course evening precedes day and so I would say that and I would argue that he was

27:52

Observing the passover with his disciples on what we would call wednesday evening Which was the beginning of nissan 14

27:58

Whereas the scribes and the pharisees were planning to eat the passover at the temple later during the daytime hours of nissan 14

28:04

Which would have been our thursday afternoon This is why matthew 26 17 refers to the last supper as the passover

28:10

But john 13 1 through 2 says that the last supper was before the passover Now that's an important part of this.

28:16

We'll see how it connects in a minute Another one of the textual questions that comes up is when is the first day of unleavened bread?

28:24

Okay, is it the passover? Is it the day after the passover? How does that work? And there's a lot of confusion on this on this matter

28:31

Some people uh refer to the passover as nissan 14 and then nissan 15 is the first day of unleavened bread

28:36

Some people today refer to the passover and the entire feast of unleavened bread, which is seven days

28:42

They call the whole thing the passover And then some people refer to the passover just as the first day of unleavened bread

28:48

Like it's kind of like the eighth day that got tacked on the first of eight day that eight days that got tacked on But when we go to exodus 12 7 and leviticus 23 5 through 8

28:57

We learned that the passover was celebrated on nissan 14 and the feast of unleavened bread was to start on nissan 15

29:03

All right, i'll let you guys look at those passages on your own. Okay? So this provides us half of the clarity because I uh, andrew,

29:11

I appreciate that you you brought up matthew 26 17 in your podcast This understanding about the the feast of unleavened bread brings up a really kind of half of the clarity needed to understand

29:22

What it means in matthew 26 17 when it says now on the first day of unleavened bread

29:28

The disciples came to jesus and asked where do you want us to prepare for you to eat the passover? okay, so if if the actual

29:37

Passover were the first day of unleavened bread there wouldn't there would have been a problem The disciples wouldn't have eaten the passover on the first day of unleavened bread

29:44

Uh, that would have been a day late for them because the passover was before that day They also wouldn't prepare the passover meal

29:52

On the first day of unleavened bread because the first day of unleavened bread was a high sabbath

29:58

Just like the seventh day was so passover preparations would have broken all the sabbath rules. Okay?

30:04

But the verse says on the first day of unleavened bread All right, so we see we need some more clarification we need some help putting all this together

30:12

And here's the second half of what I believe is going to give us the full clarity for understanding this Um, it comes from really what i'm going to call an unfortunate english translation.

30:21

All right In the king james for those of us who grew up on that it reads now the first day

30:26

Of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to jesus There's no preposition on like there is with a lot of our modern translations

30:33

And then the word day and feast are all in italics Meaning that they're at Context they weren't there in the original

30:41

So the passage could read now first of the unleavened bread the disciples came to jesus now

30:47

It's a terrible translation. I never claimed to be a greek scholar and that's obviously why they didn't translate it that way

30:52

And it obviously just doesn't make any sense in english, but the greek word translated first In scripture is often translated before it's kind of like the word day

31:02

It doesn't just refer to one thing for example in john 1 15 and verse 30

31:07

John uses the same greek word to explain that jesus existed before John existed

31:14

And in john 15 18 jesus himself uses the word he says if the world hates you, you know that it's hated me

31:20

Before it hated you All right. So going back to matthew 26 17 we find that a correct english translation

31:28

Uh would have to read now before the day of unleavened bread And this is totally consistent with the fact that the passover was really genuinely the day before The first day of the feast of unleavened bread

31:41

All right now somebody who believes that christ died on a friday would have no problem with that because Passover would have been on friday the day before the feast of unleavened bread which would have been on the saturday and everything's fine

31:52

Okay But there's another consideration we have to understand This is another one of these potpourri topics of textual questions

31:59

When was the sabbath during this passion week? And of course we all know, uh, there are four times in scripture that the word preparation and sabbath show up together

32:08

Only four times one in each of the gospels and it tells us that uh in mark 15 42

32:14

When evening can already come because it was the preparation day the day before the sabbath joseph and mary mathia

32:20

He asked for the body of christ and luke 23 54. It says something very similar um in john 1931 it tells us that the jews because it was the day of preparation so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on The sabbath for that sabbath was a high day.

32:35

They went and asked poly pilot for the body And then the uh, the fourth one is actually from matthew 27 62

32:41

And it actually refers to the day after jesus's death as being the day after the preparation Okay, so I know i'm going through this quickly stick with me

32:50

Since the weekly sabbath started on friday evening and continued through the afternoon on saturday

32:55

Most christians have understood this day of preparation before the sabbath To be the evening and the daytime hours that preceded friday evening

33:04

All right. So jesus if he died on passover if he died on the preparation before the sabbath, he clearly died on friday

33:11

The conclusion that is, you know moving backward jesus was raised on sunday. He was in the tomb on the sabbath saturday

33:17

He was crucified on friday the preparation and he observed the passover on thursday evening But there are some other there are actually a lot of issues associated with this understanding

33:26

But there's only one issue I want to focus on right now Is that there are often more than one sabbaths in a jewish week, right?

33:34

um the in this particular event the first sabbath, um If it happened right after the sorry the second sabbath happened right after the first sabbath

33:43

They shared the same day of preparation Because depending on the year the jews observed a ton of sabbaths.

33:49

I won't even go through the list right now But basically it's over 60 sabbaths in a year that only had 50 to 54 weeks in it depending on the year.

33:57

Okay? So if we assume that the mark 1542 sabbath is saturday

34:03

Then a friday crucifixion makes sense at least partial sense But what if there were another sabbath that week that landed before saturday?

34:11

And as we've already learned the seventh day or the seven day feast of unleavened bread is preceded by the feast of the passover

34:18

Passover falls on the 14th of nisan and the 15th of unleavened. Sorry the feast of unleavened bread officially starts on the 15th

34:26

Now just like kind of december 25th can fall on any day of the week nisan 15 and nisan 14 can also fall on any

34:32

Day of the week depending on that particular year, but regardless of on what day it falls

34:38

The first day of the feast of unleavened bread is considered a high sabbath called simply a high day

34:45

As a high sabbath, it's preceded by its own day of preparation, which would have been obviously the passover on the 14th

34:50

That means that regardless of the day the passover fell on it was always the preparation for the sabbath on the first day of unleavened bread

34:58

Hypothetically speaking if the passover had had shown up on a monday Then the next day would have been a sabbath

35:04

Passover would have been the preparation before the sabbath So the fact that the phrase preparation for the sabbath is used

35:13

Does not necessitate that it had to be friday before a saturday Because the passover regardless of what day it fell on was always going to be a preparation

35:21

All right Not only that but like I said in the john passage John gives us a little bit more information about the sabbath and it refers to it specifically as a high day a high sabbath

35:32

And the weekly sabbaths were never called high days. They were never called high sabbaths. They were just they were the regular sabbath

35:38

Very important, but they were the regular sabbath But this feast of unleavened bread the first day was a high day, which of course all of this makes sense

35:46

Okay, so let me kind of wrap all this up We know that jesus was crucified on passover, which was the day before the high sabbath of unleavened bread.

35:54

So Claiming that jesus had to be crucified on friday because all the references to the preparation day ignores the reality that passover was always

36:01

Going to be a preparation for a high sabbath. All right, so that's that and I only have one more.

36:07

Okay. Sorry one more And then uh, then then you can jump in here This is another piece of this puzzle

36:14

Is the question when did jesus travel to bethany? Um, this is a this is a small small one a minor one. It won't take long

36:20

But in john 12 1 we read that jesus therefore six days before the passover came to bethany where lazarus was

36:27

Whom jesus had raised from the dead a simple observation If the passover were on friday that particular year

36:34

Then jesus and the disciples would have traveled over 10 miles from where they were in ephraim to bethany during the daytime hours on saturday

36:43

Because that's what would have been six days before which would have been breaking the biblical sabbath laws Not just the pharisaical sabbath laws, but the actual biblical sabbath laws about travel on the sabbath

36:53

Or they didn't do that. They would have had to travel those 10 miles in the evening hours, which would have been extremely unsafe uh back at that time

37:02

However, if the passover were on thursday Then the jesus and the disciples would have traveled on the previous friday and there would have been no problem with the sabbath breaking

37:10

So those are some of the uh, the four things that I think play into this that I kind of call the textual questions

37:16

That when you understand those textual questions Altogether within the framework of a thursday crucifixion

37:22

Uh, they they make more sense and there's less confusion Yeah, I you know, I never thought of the the john 12 one is actually quite interesting i'll look at that more to see

37:33

You know that one. I just haven't seen the city. So six days before But six days before friday

37:40

Uh Again, i'm trying to calculate in my head that that could mean that they traveled on friday during the the previous day

37:49

I'm, just trying to think that went through but all right That He's counting on his fingers.

37:56

No, I don't know. It's again. It comes down to how and this is part of the thing a lot of people don't understand is

38:02

We we think of a day starting at midnight Which is which wouldn't have been the way they would done.

38:07

They would have done it from twilight to twilight and so um So here'd be the thing.

38:13

I mean and you you actually hit on really my my main point is the the The day of preparation

38:20

Now you're right there there was preparation for passover and for the the day of Or the feast of unleavened bread, but those preparations are different than the preparations for the seven day sabbath

38:33

Okay, so there there would be different preparations um, and so I I think that what we end up seeing is the the sabbath referred to I would argue is the seventh day

38:47

Even though it was referred to as that, you know that high sabbath you think that's specifically Yeah, I mean the high holy days.

38:53

Um You you have several high holy days, right? You have passover Uh, the of yom kippur and you've rosh hashanah.

39:00

Those would be the three high holy days That that they are a sabbath But the preparation for those are different than any other and we

39:10

Typically don't refer to them as they are a sabbath day Meaning they're a day set apart but They're usually not referred to as as the sabbath

39:22

It's it's typically referred to as the preparation for unleavened bread Well, I think it's interesting.

39:29

Um, if I and in my study, I definitely could have missed something but um The scriptures don't really especially in the new testament ever talk about these preparation days outside of passion week

39:40

So I think that's a that's a unique thing too, you know Kind of like in the same way with the hop hocks legomena, you know, you're you're left with this one -time usage in scripture

39:49

Come to these you're laughing at me I'm laughing because you're i'm agreeing with you. Yeah Yeah, you have to you have to come to all these conclusions about this one word that shows up one time

39:58

I think yeah, I think it's it's difficult to say for certain in regard to the preparation and the sabbath um

40:05

If that you know if that was a special words used specifically for the preparation before the weekly sabbath or before the the like the first sabbath of the uh, the feast of unleavened bread yeah,

40:17

I mean I I think that as you brought so the passages I would look to and and you're right with the the greek word in Matthew 26 17 that's translated first And and I know a lot of people in chat are saying they're waiting for uh, dr spesher to jump in on genesis being a literal 24 hour days because In genesis one

40:41

It's going to focus there, but the the the greek word there is uh protos

40:48

We get it can mean before or first. It's the idea of you know, we you know, we get the idea prototiter

40:58

It's it can mean it can mean first foremost, uh most important um earlier these are these are all

41:06

The idea of it. It's a prominent so it doesn't necessarily mean the like the what we are thinking of with first day like the that the first day of the seven days um and so uh

41:22

So I I'm agreeing with you on that one now, I you know, the focus there becomes is that it's the the um,

41:29

He's asking where do we prepare? the passover So here here is you know, when

41:35

I look at um, let me just read john 18 28 um and I think

41:41

I think you might have uh referred to uh to some of this but you know in um

41:50

Here it says and And uh, then they led jesus from uh from site, um

41:59

Oh, why am I drawing a blank? Um, but anyway, so so that you're reading from the

42:05

Yeah, no, not really Uh, I I just went blank on kaiaphas his name for and they and then they led jesus from kaiaphas into the petorium

42:17

And it was early And they themselves did not enter the petorium so that they would not be defiled that they might eat the passover

42:25

So so this is showing us that before the passover that he he's being brought up So he was he then therefore would be on you know, it would be the passover that he's

42:36

He ends up Uh being crucified definitely definitely the passover day and it was it was before the priests observance of the passover but not before everyone else's

42:48

Which is why some people think that well like john macarthur will say there's two passovers That's and and it was good.

42:53

I was glad that you get kind of gave some of the history of where people make that claim um, it's not that there's two passovers it was just there was the celebration and then the

43:02

The actual passover so what you you do in the temple versus what you do in your home

43:08

And passover was one of those holidays. There's three holidays where everyone had to return to jerusalem and so Um, but in john 1931 is where it says then the jews came

43:20

Because it was the day of preparation So that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the sabbath

43:29

For the sabbath was a high day Asked pilot Uh that they might their legs might be broken

43:38

So the idea that we see in john here is the fact that this is clearly this the passover day and so the the sabbath being referred to now your

43:49

I think your argument's going to be the sabbath is Is the the day the um feast of unleavened bread, correct?

43:57

Okay being a high day The because it does mention that it's a high day um the the issue though is is that There's you know, we we are

44:09

Kind of stuck with the fact of we don't know What this high day is referring to whether it's the seventh day or not well, so let me so let me

44:20

Share with you my my third Group of reasoning if I may, uh for why I believe this is the case and I think

44:28

I think you'll appreciate this Is okay. Should I go?

44:33

I'm just gonna let me just finish the the one thought real quick. Oh, okay I'm, sorry. I didn't mean to catch off. Yeah, so the the high day

44:40

References back to exodus 12 16 which says It will be for you on the first day a holy assembly

44:50

And on the seventh day a holy assembly No work will be done on them.

44:56

Only what is eaten for every person It alone will be prepared for you. So what that says

45:02

Is that the the high day? When referring to the passover is at least according to exodus is the first and the seventh correct, but that's

45:15

There was a there's a there's a misunderstanding. I think that people look at it different ways um in that trans in that um

45:22

That transition from talking about the passover to talking about the feast of unleavened bread for the seven days um

45:28

He actually there is a transition he moves from the passover to the feast of unleavened bread The thing that confuses people is that they both the passover and the feast of unleavened bread

45:36

Have unleavened bread as a main fixture within both of those feasts, which is why it's clarified um in the leviticus passage

45:43

I mentioned earlier where it specifically says That on the 14th is the passover on the 15th starts the feast of unleavened bread

45:50

Which is seven days long the first day and the seventh day of that feast are those high holy days

45:58

Yeah, see and I I I just I guess the thing we're we're going to end up coming down as i'm

46:03

I'm convinced that the passover or sorry that the seventh day the sabbath is The seventh day of the of the week

46:11

I see and I and I and it wouldn't be a conflict with them doing the work on the first day of the feast of Of unleavened bread because that you don't have the same day of rest

46:23

So they could do the work so but For for folks that are watching listening

46:29

We're now going to leave it up to you guys to do some research so my encouragement Is to go check out celebration of god podcast

46:39

Where he where aaron has done two episodes on that He promises not to sneak into your house at night and kill you while you sleep super ninja skills

46:51

If you disagree with him, but uh What what you end up seeing is, you know, there's going to be disagreement

46:57

You can go to my podcast a rap report daily podcast and go search.

47:02

I think you search for the day. Jesus died It's there from like 2018 april of 2018 and so um with that i'm gonna you aaron i'm gonna leave you in i'm gonna

47:13

Anthony walked away. So i'll wait back in I know you I know you need to transition

47:18

But can I can I just bring up one more interesting point about this? Yeah, because I think this is I think I think for me this is the kicker

47:23

This is why I saved it for last and maybe I spent too long on that middle one But I just want to I want to bring this out because this for me was the thing that absolutely sold it

47:32

And it has to do with what I call necessary symbolism Um, we know the from hebrews that the sacrificial system was a picture.

47:40

It was an image of a spiritual reality, right? And there was so much symbolism. I mean even the fact that christ died on the passover all protestant believers all christians

47:49

Acknowledged the fact that that was significant. Of course christ was crucified and slaughtered on the passover

47:55

But here's the interesting thing So the passover regardless of what day it's on um

48:01

Is on the 14th part of the passover proceedings Okay, was that four days before this time on the 10th and it was specifically um

48:11

Mentioned in the old testament on exodus 12 3 that on the 10th day of this month that you would choose your lamb and what we see is

48:21

On sunday, jesus christ is entering into jerusalem, right? It is the it's it's the uh triumphal entry

48:28

And the sacrificial lamb is being presented to the people. What would then happen is over the next four days

48:34

Uh, there would be a testing and making certain that the lamb was truly without blemish Um, and christ did that before the the people and before the spiritual leaders leading up to then the passover crucifixion

48:45

Here's the problem if you believe that christ was crucified on friday

48:50

You actually lose The huge symbolism of christ entering into jerusalem on the 10th because the 10th would have been on the monday

48:59

Not on the sunday Which is an interesting thing. Okay, so there's that that's a that's a and I could go more and more into that But i'm gonna i'll save that for later.

49:06

Okay, but here's for me the big kicker so jesus christ rose on On sunday, right if the 14th

49:16

Had been a friday Saturday would have been the 15th. And then sunday would have been the 16th.

49:22

We lose another extremely significant from genesis Like through the end of the old testament a focus and symbolism that that is really very important However, if jesus were crucified on thursday, thursday would have been the 14th friday the 15th

49:40

Then saturday would have been the 16th, which means sunday would have been nissan 17 And here's why this is so incredibly significant, okay

49:49

Jesus fulfilled all of the requirements for the perfect passover lamb, okay Um, he was presented on the 10th so on and so forth

49:57

But he also fulfilled the feast of the first fruits perfectly The feast of the first fruits came on that sunday

50:03

It was always the second day of the feast of unleavened bread unless it landed on a sabbath Like it would have had to if it you know, if the feast were on friday sabbath would have been on saturday

50:11

They have to wait until sunday Okay, so the the feast of first fruits comes in And and christ is the way of offering

50:18

He's the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep as we learn in first corinthians 15 20. Okay So all of that's important and if you believe again

50:25

If you believe that he was crucified on friday, none of that changes the feast of first fruits still would have been on Uh sunday christ would have been that but it's significant that if you were crucified on thursday

50:37

That the feast of first fruits that particular year would have been on the 17th of nissan Okay, and this is why it's a big deal

50:44

If you look through scripture, okay. Noah's ark came to rest on mount ararat on nissan 17

50:50

The hebrews entered egypt same day Moses led the israelites through the parting of the red sea on the exact same day

50:58

Israel entered and ate the first fruit of the promised land. We learned this in joshua 5 10 through 12 on nissan 14

51:05

The cleansing of the temple by hezekiah 800 years after entering the promised land happened on the same day

51:10

Queen esther saved the jews from elimination on nissan 17.

51:16

Okay God miraculously used nissan 17 to be a day of new beginnings All throughout the scripture all of those events have very similar things.

51:25

Uh in in common with each other What more perfect day could there have been for christ to rise?

51:31

But if you hold to a friday crucifixion, then jesus would have risen like I said on nissan 16

51:36

Yes, it still would have been the day that the priesthood the way of offering It still would have been we'd be celebrating it

51:41

But it would never have fulfilled the old testament long setup that god was preparing for in nissan 17 and I think that is hugely awesome um that that it the the resurrection of the messiah fell in line with all those other days that god had

51:58

Orchestrated specifically to fall nissan 17. He was he was setting the stage for that Uh, and I think it's a beautiful thing that you lose

52:04

If you say that, you know christ was crucified on a friday I just I guess i'm looking and I will

52:11

We'll have to get all the references that you you have there because i'm looking at esther 37 and it says on the first month

52:17

Yeah for the in the first month that is nissan on the 12th in the 12th year uh

52:24

I'm trying to see where it says that see there's only two. I only see two references to nissan That's in nehemiah and esther.

52:30

So i'd be curious to see where you get, um the others but it's

52:36

I'm Opening up my bible right now. Yeah but well The one thing is

52:42

I want to try to get we have a couple other people that are in in the backstage with some questions Oh, yes,

52:47

I guess. Oh, well, david says he's got some interesting information for a topic I was going to put david david came in last so i'm going to hold off on on uh, the other two men on And i'm going to bring david in uh, just so you know, aaron, uh, david would

53:05

I believe still say that he's an agnostic I grew up in christian home uh, he's a

53:12

I know david forgive me. I'm just this old To call you a kid. I know

53:18

I hated it when all the guy old guys did that to me when I was your age But he's he's a young man.

53:23

Uh, just I think just getting into college And he's been on this on the program before You know, but a very respectful young man.

53:32

So go ahead david Hey, how you guys doing? very interesting topic um,

53:39

I actually found a website where you could take the hebrew calendar and it kind of goes all the way back um through the first century and what

53:48

I found is the year 33 ce which is generally when People think jesus died um, according to this calendar nissan 14 would have been on a friday and nissan 15 would be one saturday

54:02

And the 16th would be a Sunday and the 17th would be a monday so Just thought that would be kind of cool and I would throw that out

54:11

You here is the source for that if you are interested in taking a look at that No, you put it in the chat in the private chat, okay,

54:20

I appreciate that so let me uh, Try to put that as a

54:26

Banner real quick so folks can can find that Um, do you mind if I uh provide some

54:33

Counter to that Andrew, or do you want to get someone else? Well, you know if you have something real quick,

54:39

I mean, I I have not looked at this calendar. So I really it's um Yeah, that's exactly what

54:44

I would have expected to have here. Yeah, that's yeah In fact nissan 14 lands on friday a lot yeah,

54:50

I mean one of the things I guess would be the question of and this becomes the question is you're looking at it in the

54:58

You know the roman calendar of year 33 And there is some discussion of whether christ died in 32 or 33

55:06

I'd be curious Yeah, or 34 so, you know if we change that i'm going to look at 32 and 34

55:14

Well, here's a here's a here's a thing and I just want to throw this out there This was part of like I hit a huge snag in my study as I came to this because I I found that I was

55:23

I was actually just really discouraged because as I did these Calculations backward using online calculators and things like that um

55:30

The 14th never landed on a thursday ever. It was always on a friday or another day. Um So I was at one point

55:37

I was willing to throw everything I learned out throughout the three days throughout the three nights Just get rid of it all and just go with this friday thing because you know, the calendars proved it, right?

55:46

But I learned that there were actually some really significant There there are some significant issues with applying current calculation models with past jewish years.

55:53

It doesn't work Um nearly all the hebrew year calculators on the internet, for example have no problem extrapolating out the dates moving forward

56:01

But they can't perfectly determine the dates moving backward. There's a ton of reasons. Um, just one example is the fact that back then

56:09

You would determine if it were the new spring moon when uh, two independent sources went to the priest and verified that they had seen uh the waxing crescent moon

56:19

Um, so I mean there is definite possibilities for human error due to overcast nights and the like.

56:25

All right, so What they've said was the 14th we may have thought was another day using our calculations

56:31

But here's the thing that I found that I thought was really cool the us naval observatory astronomical applications department calculated that on ad34

56:41

The vernal equinox fell on monday march 22nd And the astronomical new moon junction was wednesday april 7th

56:49

Now let's just tell you what this means. Okay, the first evening Uh, the waxing crescent after the new moon would have been visible

56:56

That particular year was on thursday april 8th And that corresponds to the first day of nissan so on our gregorian calendar based off of what they said about the way the

57:05

The the moon and the planets and everything were actually working that particular year That would have been the thursday evening on the 8th through friday afternoon on the 9th

57:13

Which means that and I know i'm throwing this math at you and you're like you can't check me I get it But all this means that on in ad34

57:20

The passover. Okay, the 14th day of nissan actually would have landed on a thursday And so that on the gregorian calendar that would have been uh, thursday, april 22nd at 3 p .m

57:30

Would have been when christ died according to this information we have from this this one particular source So I I thought that was pretty stellar uh pun intended

57:43

Pun intended All right, well, thank you for that david i'm gonna i'll leave you backstage in case you have more questions

57:49

Especially when dr. Svestro comes in. Oh, there he is. He's back Anthony, I don't know if there was anything you wanted to add

57:55

I know I know people were ethan was was anxiously waiting to hear you say no, they're 24 literal 24 hour days

58:06

But I don't know if you have see he doesn't even know how to unmute himself, there we go So this is like I at least got the camera turned back on Good job.

58:17

That's half the battle. Well done No, so, you know evening and morning is a clue that the word yom is a 24 hour day in genesis.

58:25

So is having Ordinal numbers second third fourth fifth sixth

58:31

Um, obviously it's not we're talking about here. So He just had to get that in. I'm, so glad you did.

58:37

I feel better. I can sleep tonight All right, so we're going in order here. Uh, the the next person up Is and he's dressed for the occasion folks.

58:48

He's dressed for the occasion. It is none other than Captain america look at him dressed for the occasion uh, this is

58:56

None other than chris honhols So so the question is are you gonna have to be gay now since the next character is coming out as gay?

59:03

Oh, you had to go there. Oh We were doing so well Don't even get me started on that.

59:10

I i'm about ready to throw everything I have out Might have to change over to wonder woman or something now.

59:15

I had already brought that up online with him Yeah, that's that's a sore topic right now for folks who who don't know chris honhols everyone here should but uh host half of the hosts of Voice of reason radio an award -winning podcast from the christian podcast community

59:34

Um, and so now now I will I will tell you this chris I will tell you this you're you're going to kind of be upset

59:41

Oh because of it. We we weren't really All of us were not really paying attention to podcasts as much of and and giving as much listens like we usually do

59:50

And so we were struggling to find which was the best podcast episode this year uh,

59:57

I will say that both you and truth love parent were were in the mix of of best podcasts um

01:00:05

We we really decided we weren't going to give awards this year because we weren't properly prepared I i'm i'm just going to say the only thing we all we agreed on is that voice of reason was

01:00:16

Going to be the best podcast of the year We weren't properly prepared. So maybe maybe it was just a lack of But that is true

01:00:30

That's see that's the problem. Yeah, y 'all weren't listening to all the other podcasts Sometimes I wonder about the math how you come to these conclusions my friend content

01:00:44

So so, uh Chris is we we busted on everyone to get you in here because we like having you here like having your wisdom

01:00:51

I don't know if you want to add anything to the this the the first the discussion we've had already But if not,

01:00:57

I definitely want you staying on because we have two people in backstage one, I think anthony is it's it's anthony's

01:01:03

You know, I saw some conversations anthony was sending in chat back and forth when he was sending something

01:01:09

Someone was talking about him identifying As having a black belt and they identify as calculus

01:01:15

He of course responds both to facebook and youtube responding about calculus because he doesn't know how to respond just for the one

01:01:22

But we do have someone backstage called calculus man, i'm wondering if it's anthony's Ego here or something

01:01:30

I know who it is. Oh you do. Okay and we also we also have from last week back is

01:01:37

Is a mecca so he will we'll be bringing him in soon now Aaron, you probably didn't watch last week.

01:01:44

So you don't know his view. I did watch last week. Thank you very much. I I skipped around but I did watch it

01:01:55

So so chris, I don't know if you have any any questions or any comments you want to make uh No on this topic.

01:02:00

This one is where i'm pretty useless. Uh, a lot of math there. Uh, I uh, very interesting conversation.

01:02:08

Um, ultimately, I i'm probably going to be more like what you say on this andrew I'm just going to go with the traditional

01:02:14

Understanding of it. But by the way the way the way I look at Way, I look at it as christ died.

01:02:20

He's risen and the rest of it. I'll let you guys debate. He's risen indeed So andrew

01:02:25

I will say a calculus man does have a question. He posted in the in the private chats You don't want to bring him in Yeah, I did see that on deuteronomy 22 so Well, we could we could do that now since you you know who this is i'll bring in calculus man, you know who it is

01:02:41

All right. Can everyone hear me? Yes. Okay. All right. So the short story is so I'm, not sure you guys heard like the other day when when the star wars facebook page had like the pros transgender posts

01:02:53

Yeah, the short story is that close to deuteronomy 22 5 in their comment section just to try to get like in regards being scriptural in that regard

01:03:01

Now my question is this regard. I do believe that obviously 20 Deuteronomy 22 5 is um applies for today or whatnot

01:03:08

But the thing is so I know from a dispensational perspective. I know there's a difference. I know. Um Let me clear my question here

01:03:15

So I know some people would say like when it comes to mosaic law stuff that oh, that's old testament We're under the new covenant.

01:03:21

So I don't apply anymore. What would be a good response in that regard? Well, I mean the first thing first thing i'm going to say is that i'm i'm has nothing to do with your question

01:03:30

I'm, just disappointed. I mean all of a sudden chris hon holds went off camera comes back and he's no longer captain america.

01:03:36

I'm depressed It's a little hot in this room Are you saying you're full of hot air

01:03:45

So, uh, that could be true too My guess man, what's your what's your your first name? Uh, it's chris.

01:03:51

So chris Hudson's actually my full name. Okay So andrew he was at a repentant witness with us like four years ago now

01:03:58

Okay And back in g3 2019, um with the g3 mission conference as we met in person at that point, too

01:04:06

Okay. Okay. He he was he was confused. He would wear a patriot's hat with a green bay packers jersey um, the next day was a green bay hat with a

01:04:17

Patriot's jersey so as confusing for a lot of people not for me because I didn't But for you because you don't know a football from a baseball.

01:04:25

So yeah, I mean it just it wasn't a big deal It could have been a baseball team and a football team for all

01:04:30

I know so so I think I think when we we end up seeing is From a dispensational view since you brought that into it

01:04:38

You you have old testament law That was written for the nation of israel But there are see now

01:04:45

I view The laws different in the sense I don't hold to like the westminster confession that would talk about a tripartite law being ceremonial moral and civil

01:04:58

Okay, I look at the laws more being laws that are universal. In other words laws that are for all mankind regardless of jewish gentile, whatever

01:05:10

You know thou shall not lie is a universal law for everybody in in every dispensation every time period

01:05:19

But then I think there's laws that are specific for the nation of israel That are going to be different than laws that would be for the the church and they could be different than were laws given to you know, adam or you know, uh

01:05:36

You know noah or different periods of time so I think that what you end up seeing is that there's we have to try to figure out is this a law that carries over to That's universal

01:05:50

Okay So looking at the law so you you brought up, uh, deuteronomy 22, uh, verse five

01:06:00

I just want to to to get to that. I want to read in context. So i'm going to start at verse one Uh, you shall see

01:06:07

You shall not see Your countryman's ox or his sheep straying away and pay no attention to them

01:06:15

You you shall surely bring them back to your countryman If your countryman is not near you or if you do not know him

01:06:25

Then you shall bring it home to your house And it shall remain with you until your countryman looks for it and you shall restore it to him thus you shall do with his donkey

01:06:38

And you shall do the same with his uh with his garment and you shall do likewise with anything lost by your countryman which

01:06:47

Uh, he has lost And you have found Okay, let me clarify something.

01:06:52

I might have done the wrong reference or whatnot. I thought there's a verse in deuteronomy 22 about like, um Calling god calling forbidding people to like women wearing men's clothes

01:07:01

We're getting there Okay So we're still in verse three

01:07:07

You are not allowed to neglect them You shall see your countryman's donkey or his ox fallen down on the way and you will pay

01:07:17

And you pay no attention to them. You shall surely help him to raise them up Now the verse five a woman shall not wear men's clothes

01:07:29

Nor shall a man put on women's clothes for whoever does Uh these things is an abomination to the lord

01:07:37

Verse six if you happen to come upon a bird Nest along the way in the tree on the ground with one young with young ones or eggs

01:07:50

And the mother sitting on the young Or on the eggs you shall not take the mother

01:07:57

With the young you shall certainly let the mother go But the young you will you will

01:08:05

The young you may take for yourself uh in order that it may be well with you and That you may prolong your days.

01:08:15

So I just The see the context ends up helping us to see the these these laws that are here are

01:08:23

Seeming to be laws that are more universal to to anyone

01:08:29

Okay It's it's speaking of a countryman It's speaking about Looking at a nest so in in fact

01:08:39

You thought that I was giving a wrong verse because we tend to just look verse five and and take it out of the context

01:08:46

So but the context helps us to see is this a law that would be universal for everybody

01:08:52

And I would say as you look through the the context and the laws there. This is a universal law

01:08:58

So because of that I would say that this still holds uh for in practice today

01:09:06

Now it I will admit that it's always been puzzling you have all this stuff about your countryman with his his property

01:09:15

Then you get into this thing of a crossdresser And then you get into birds You know and so You know, you you end up seeing that there's this strange

01:09:28

Uh, what seems strange is is Is the way that this lays out and and what it'll get back to?

01:09:35

uh toward the end is um if we keep reading verse eight

01:09:41

Uh, when you build a new house You shall make you shall make a parapet for your roof so that you will not bring blood guilt on your house

01:09:50

If anyone falls off from it Uh, you shall not sow your vineyard

01:09:55

With two kinds of seed or all produce of the seed which have sown in increase the

01:10:02

Of the vine will become defiled And you shall not plow with ox or donkey together

01:10:10

So there's like a whole a whole series of things that he's giving here and It's when you look at this.

01:10:17

It's just a bunch of different Uh prescriptions that god is giving In these laws, in fact at least in the nasb the title of at the top of chapter

01:10:29

Uh 22 is sundry laws because it's just like it's like a to use aaron's term from earlier a potpourri of laws a collage of laws

01:10:40

And and that's really what it is. So they're just these it's almost like you have in proverbs where there's just These you know one proverb after another after another just generalizations here he's doing this with laws.

01:10:53

They're very short They're not directly connected to each other but what we do see I think from the context is

01:11:00

That the laws around it would all be universal for all people the way we treat one another and so Jump in here real quick and offer some

01:11:09

Just an observation. I'm, sorry the name of our captain calculus is who's who again? Uh, chris chris, sorry,

01:11:16

I was going to call you david because I was looking at that in the chat chris. Yes. Okay. So um one of the things

01:11:21

I think is interesting about the law is that You see laws that grow directly from god's character

01:11:29

Okay, and then you see laws that are an application Of god's character and this is what

01:11:35

I mean by that So the jews had a lot of things that they were not allowed to do. They weren't allowed to As we saw

01:11:41

I mean actually as we saw here they had to have the tassels They weren't allowed to trim the corners of their beards, you know, all this kind of stuff uh, the shellfish and all that they weren't allowed to eat and That a lot of people believe and I think it's

01:11:52

I think it's a really good understanding of what we see in the old testament um was that was god was creating a people who

01:12:01

Outwardly were very different from the rest of the world around them That was an important application

01:12:07

Of the reality that god wanted his people to be holy to be set apart It's a picture for us here in the new testament of the fact that in the way that the jews are supposed to be

01:12:17

Externally separate from their culture. We christians are to be spiritually separated from sin

01:12:24

All right, that's that's a beautiful picture of that whereas The ten commandments, uh, some of the commandments we see even in this particular passage are tied directly to god's character

01:12:35

It's not just an application. Uh trying to Be a picture of a truth that god wants us to know separation from sin

01:12:43

It's the fact that a man pretending to be a woman or a woman pretending to be a man

01:12:49

Goes directly against god's character And that's yeah And I think I think it's completely appropriate, uh to look at it that way and to and when people come to you and they say

01:12:59

Oh, so, uh, so you're not going to eat, you know bacon if you're going to follow that law You're going to follow the other ones, right?

01:13:05

Um, that's that that just shows a really big misunderstanding on their part And and they and they love to do that people who don't understand what they're talking about Love to point at stuff like that just to try and make you feel bad like you're the idiot who for believing this

01:13:18

And uh, that's probably not the case Yeah, I agree and that's the other thing too Like after I made that comment, um in in the star wars post or whatnot

01:13:27

Some guy responded and used eight john 87 out of context to try to get me to try to silence my arguments or whatnot

01:13:34

And the thing is too I've actually made I Respond to his argument, but somehow someone else deleted my comments.

01:13:39

So obviously Facebook censorship censorship at its finest there You're not being canceled don't worry don't worry

01:13:47

Yeah Yeah, so Does that answer your question?

01:13:53

It does it's really helpful. Thank you. Okay. All right. I'll put you backstage If you have another question, feel free to jump back in just let us know in the private chat

01:14:01

So chris anything chris hon holds anything else you want to add? No, I mean

01:14:06

I think you guys did that pretty well I I agree it's one of those things where There are answers to this that explain

01:14:15

There are things that were clearly civil or ceremonial and there are things that are As uh, as he said reflect the character of god there or as you said, uh are universal moral applications

01:14:29

The answers are there most of the time when we're confronted with those questions The simple fact is is the people don't even want the answer.

01:14:37

They just think that's a that's a gotcha question You can't answer it. And if you try to answer it, it's kind of like when you say when someone says well

01:14:44

You're a racist and you deny it that proves you're a racist if I actually attempt to answer your question Then you're going to say oh see you're picking and choosing.

01:14:51

So it's Exactly and so there's Nine times out of ten when they're hitting you with these they don't they're not actually looking for an answer

01:15:01

They're actually just wanting to throw an objection up because they don't want to hear it from you That's actually one of the things that anthony and I do on the streets when we get someone challenging us when we're sharing the gospel

01:15:12

One of the things we sometimes will do is someone will throw a challenge out and we'll go Do you actually want the answer?

01:15:18

You know And it's funny how you know people like no, I mean we we've asked this question At least i've asked this question lots of times i'll ask a person that says he's an atheist

01:15:26

And i'll i'll say if I can prove to you To your satisfaction that god exists and that you're accountable to him would you worship him?

01:15:39

And they're like no For and they'll be like And I said no to your satisfaction like if I could prove it to your satisfaction

01:15:47

Right, and they'll be like, well, no, I still won't worship them and it's like so okay There's no there's no sense in having this conversation

01:15:54

Right. Yeah, because they're really not interested in the conversation It's pearls before swine

01:16:00

Yeah, that's exactly it Yeah, no that and that. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, go ahead

01:16:06

I just because I think I think the reality is is when we're being confronted with that. It's good to know as we did here, um being able to provide an answer, but You're going to have to realize that there are some folks that simply aren't interested in that conversation and if you get

01:16:23

Sidetracked into every particular argument that could be out there and that's what they'll do. They'll pull you into all those different weeds

01:16:30

You're never going to get to the real issue. You're never going to get to the need for their uh repentance before christ their their the the desperate sin and and uh

01:16:39

Wretched situation they find themselves in before god So that's what a lot of this is and we just we as christians have to remember that the social media makes it real easy

01:16:48

To get hung up on the arguments and the debates but we have to remember that the individuals who are doing this are people who are going to stand before god and they're going to Be judged and they're not going to have an answer to be able to say well

01:17:00

None of your none of your people could answer the the deuteronomy 22 question Yeah, well, yeah, we can but you ignored it

01:17:07

But that's not the issue. The issue is every one of them is going to stand before god for their sin Yeah, we want to not get bogged down too often in those weeds and that's some folks when you're doing apologetics just remember this this one thing is that When you give an answer a lot of times you get someone that says you didn't answer because you didn't answer the way they wanted

01:17:29

Are you know my agreement with your argument? Doesn't mean that you didn't give an answer

01:17:36

Okay, and a lot of people think that You you have to give an answer that convinces them or it's not an answer

01:17:42

Now I give you an answer whether you agree with it or not um Now anthony being typical anthony he puts up the a question for us to discuss before we finish the current topic so We'll just hold off and and finish up now.

01:17:56

There's there's one thing for um calculus man That I don't know if this was and i'm going to just bring them in real quick to ask

01:18:03

I don't know if this was your your thinking chris, but I could see someone and maybe the way you worded it because you were saying

01:18:09

You know for a dispensational view and is it still applicable? I could see someone today Trying to say that.

01:18:15

Oh, well, that's deuteronomy 22. That's old testament That doesn't apply to us today.

01:18:21

So today we can have people that could cross dress. Was that was that in in your in the

01:18:27

You're thinking with the question or I mean, yeah partially now granted I don't believe I don't believe that or whatnot, but I could see that as a potential like argument especially from like Quote -unquote progressive christians or liberal folks.

01:18:38

Yeah Yeah, and and I was thinking about it while chris honholds was talking when like, you know If it's from a progressive christian,

01:18:45

I could see them trying to argue that way, especially if they're you know What's called a red letter christian?

01:18:51

For folks that don't know you could go search the rap report on red letter christianity I did an episode on that where we explain what this is

01:18:59

But it's people these progressive christians that believe only in the red lettering of the bible now I grant you the reason

01:19:04

I have a problem With that is because if we were going to put the everything in red letters of what god actually said

01:19:12

And jesus is god. It would be the whole thing The whole bible is red letters

01:19:17

Okay so So what you what you see is, uh, there are progressive christians that they ignore they they want to ignore the old testament

01:19:28

And you'll see this with some hyper dispensationalists that they ignored the old testament as well and I We don't do that Uh, but the way we have to look at it is to say whether those things carry over into today.

01:19:41

So Um, I hope that I hope that helps chris. It does. Thank you. I really appreciate that. Thanks.

01:19:47

Um, You know, I really should get david wood in here because there's a lot of people in in the um in the chat

01:19:53

And I and I don't know aaron if you can if you're able to see the chat, but a lot of people think that you are uh a david would look alike

01:20:03

You know, I can't see the chat and uh So it says ha ha chris.

01:20:09

Thanks. You got it. Uh You look like david wood's twin bro. So I don't know who's supposed to be the day

01:20:15

I think he was referring to me because he was asking the picture in the bottom left, which was me

01:20:20

Oh, okay. I thought he said bottom, right? Okay Well, I I've i've hung out with david wood and you don't look anything like him.

01:20:28

I'm, sorry It was news to me too, so I was thinking bad for anybody I thought

01:20:34

I was referring to aaron and I was going to say well no offense, but aaron's a lot thinner than david i've Um, okay, so let's get let's get to the question before we get to Uh, we have to bring joe in next he's got a question.

01:20:47

He's texting me about it Well, you know, you keep breaking the you know, we we have people that come in order you know

01:20:54

So, okay. Uh Melissa is asking should we drink Juice or wine for communion doesn't matter

01:21:03

Okay, so I actually have a daily podcast I believe on this uh, or at least the youtube video where I dealt with this, but I do find it interesting that Uh, I I think it's inconsistent people that will say that they have to drink wine um

01:21:19

For communion because that's what they would have done in the first century And and for folks I I know, uh,

01:21:24

I think I saw some comments earlier about this in the chat Um, I think it was ethan that might have said that if i'm wrong, forgive me that said they wouldn't have had wine

01:21:33

They would have that's exactly what they would have drank at a passover Uh was wine it would have been wine.

01:21:39

It would it may not have been as strong as the wine we have today um, but They would have had wine

01:21:45

I think it's inconsistent when people say they have to have wine real wine, but then have uh, leavened or Have leavened bread

01:21:55

Like a loaf of bread You know if you're going to argue that you have to be biblical and keep it the same then

01:22:02

You know do both. I I think that grape juice, uh is wiser. It's still of the of the vine

01:22:09

Uh, you don't need it the you don't need the juice to be fermented I think that's just wiser especially when you come to people that um that are um

01:22:21

It might have issues with alcohol now I will say this i've i've only been in one church service

01:22:28

Uh where I was preaching at a church where they had communion with real wine um, and I I I It was a little strange to me.

01:22:36

What I did notice was everyone that had juice had the little communion cups And then what they did was they had

01:22:43

People come up to pour real wine if they wanted wine I will admit that the pastor of that church poured a full cup of wine and said

01:22:53

Let's do this in remembrance of him and guzzled a whole glass of wine and when I say glass, it's actually like you know, the

01:23:01

Wine glass holds like two or three glasses of wine. You're not supposed to fill it all the way up um, well, he may have had a tummy ache that day and so he

01:23:10

Different instruction wine for the stomach's sake is what paul instructed that that Very well could be

01:23:15

I I think that some might use it as a means of You know,

01:23:20

I mean if they if they did the same small little communion cup of real wine

01:23:26

It probably wouldn't have triggered me as much But I I don't think there's any problem with not having uh with not having uh

01:23:37

Fermented wine. I I prefer I prefer and think that it's wiser Uh in our culture which has a different view of wine than they did in the first century um to have something non -fermented non -alcoholic

01:23:50

But let's be clear on one thing. It is downright silly when people say that it was only grape juice in the bible

01:23:56

Yeah, yeah, I mean that's And the reason the reason being is people and this is where I say it's a different way of thinking the first century

01:24:04

Yes, it was fermented for a very simple reason The alcohol killed the dysentery right

01:24:11

They didn't drink wine For the drunkenness part there is a hard, you know, there there's reference to to hard drink

01:24:19

Which would be the strong liquor? but the wine that they would drink every day is different and and I can tell you that Um, there is a difference even even in america

01:24:30

When you have people that grow up just having you know, you know anything I don't know if you did in an italian family, but in a jewish family

01:24:37

We would have wine, you know, it wouldn't be a big deal passover we had wine You know, even as kids it my parents actually kind of liked it because there's a there's a special My grandmother's matzo ball soup and manischewitz wine is the ultimate sleep aid

01:24:55

So I think my parents went this way So, I mean all the kids would be out

01:25:04

So, but you know we grew up and it was not a big deal But that's not the way it is for most in america.

01:25:10

And for that reason I wouldn't I wouldn't encourage churches to have uh to be having wine um

01:25:18

At you know during communion, I think it could be put a stumbling block before people

01:25:25

So anyone else have anything else on that I I I would agree with you on that andrew.

01:25:31

I think ultimately, you know be consistent for your church's sake don't Guzzle it from the pulpit.

01:25:38

That's bad idea. Uh, but uh, you know, the idea is that we're doing it in remembrance of christ and so whether you have something that has a

01:25:46

Low alcohol content or it's juice or you are using wine. The point of it is not so much

01:25:53

What is the alcohol content was it? You know, is it wine? Is it grape juice? But rather what we're doing in remembrance of christ his shed blood his broken body for our for our sins

01:26:02

So that I I absolutely agree. I think that you know, just be consistent about it, but I also agree with you

01:26:08

I think one of the Where we a lot of people will get hung up on this and i've actually heard this from people where it's like They're so concerned about the idea of it being alcohol that if they even hint that it was alcohol in the bible

01:26:23

That would make it okay for someone to drink and well, we're so anti -alcohol Now we're going to say it was miraculously

01:26:30

Unfermented grape juice and yeah, let's be let's be realistic. Let's be historically accurate

01:26:35

Yeah, it might have had a different content than hard liquor But it was wine and let's just be honest about that and not jump through hoops to make the argument because we're scared

01:26:44

We might stumble someone and when jesus changed water to wine. It was actually wine. How do we know because the the at the wedding the the head of the guy goes you you bring out usually people

01:26:56

Give the good stuff until people have drunk a little bit and then they can't taste the difference with the bad stuff

01:27:02

So you give them the cheap stuff later, but you brought out the good stuff. So yeah, obviously it is but you know

01:27:08

Chris, I know you need a sleep aid uh Uh matzo ball soup and manischewitz wine, but There is something else you can have and that would be a my pillow

01:27:19

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01:27:39

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01:27:48

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01:27:57

That's 800 -873 -0176 And use promo code sfe to get the discounts if you go to their website, you'll see that they have a lot of discounts and That that are there

01:28:11

Uh, but you can only get it with the promo code. And so one of the things they're doing right now is

01:28:17

Kt is saying throw in a towel and have a pillow fight. I like that. That's good pillow

01:28:23

And so if you if you go there, you will be able to see some of the discounts They have there the the record running right now as a sale is the largest discount they've done on their premium pillows $40 off on their premium pillars.

01:28:35

I don't know how much longer that's going to run So if i've already we're starting to buy christmas presents because we're going to start giving away

01:28:42

My pillows to folks because they're they're cheap enough now Uh, these are great pillows. I use them

01:28:47

I travel with them Uh, so I encourage you to go there and get one Let us we we can't bring in joe conkle because he dropped out.

01:28:55

So I don't know what question he had I do but I want him to ask it.

01:29:01

So, okay. Well, then we're going to bring in We're going to bring in our friend from last week um

01:29:10

Hey guys Uh mecca, how are you? I'm doing great. I'm doing great.

01:29:15

How are you guys all doing? Good so so, you know aaron if you I don't know if you watched toward the end, but uh chris

01:29:21

I think you might have but if you didn't make for people who are new you didn't see last week's show amica was with us last week uh

01:29:29

Mecca, sorry. Yeah, no Good kids. Good kids. Yeah uh is a person who uh grew up in a christian home he had uh believes now in just the old testament doesn't believe that the new testament prophecies

01:29:45

Uh that we'd hold to as prophecies that they were fulfilled that they were fulfilled and does not believe that the messiah has come yet Is that fair?

01:29:53

Yeah, okay Okay. So what do you have for us this week? uh today, uh, actually

01:29:58

I wanted to discuss because we we had touched on something last week and that was uh, messiah the word messiah, what does it mean and I was um, you know,

01:30:10

I was saying that There were many messiahs in the scripture Yes, uh in the old testament, and I know there was some disagreement there so, uh what

01:30:21

I actually did today, um Which I hope I don't think this will take up too much time um, but I actually prepared kind of like a little segmental teaching or at least some scriptures that I could show that would

01:30:35

Hopefully help bring that understanding into why I have that. Um belief So I don't know if it's okay with you that if I share my screen so I can pull these verses up How how long of a a thing you want to um?

01:30:47

It's like I mean it shouldn't take too long. I'm thinking like 10 minutes Well, we won't have that much time because let's let's bring

01:30:56

Let's bring joe on first and let him ask this question. Then maybe we can come back in the rest of the time Was that okay with you?

01:31:02

Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. All right, we'll do that. Okay, i'll put you backstage. I'll bring joe in but why's joe

01:31:11

I see joe in the in backstage. I see his face, but maybe his camera's frozen.

01:31:17

Yeah I saw him clearly in the backstage.

01:31:23

Yeah, I think his camera froze on him. Oh, no Of course it did he's been trying to get in Yeah Okay, let's remove and then

01:31:33

Adam's streaming No, I think someone has more trouble than anthony now Apparently wow, yeah, but the difference is anthony has this trouble every week

01:31:45

Here's the thing he blames it on his son, you know, my son came in and was you know Is you know, this is the reason so he dropped out.

01:31:52

He's probably gonna come back This is the reason you know, like dads. What do they do? It's like oh let me blame myself As a as a you know a ministry truth love parent

01:32:02

What would you think about a parent who blames his son for his Inability to figure out technology you have any counsel for that as a as a counselor.

01:32:11

Yeah, it's a poor parenting You're living in a delusion. Uh, you need to buy a white t -shirt and a black magic marker and write

01:32:17

I don't read my bible on the t -shirt because it's clear You sir are a deplorable parent who would do that to his job

01:32:27

You know the best part is it's not gonna say anything against it because he knows it No, no

01:32:36

He thinks anthony always says he's he knows street skills He's you know italian when you're an italian street fighter.

01:32:43

I don't care how many black belts somebody has Doesn't matter. All right.

01:32:48

So joe you're you're here we see you walking around So What what question do you have for us tonight?

01:32:57

It's good to see you joe, by the way, can you hear me? Yes. Yes, we can hear you Okay, I don't know if the video is any good

01:33:07

Yeah, that's okay we can hear you though It sounds like there's a delay on your end joe

01:33:14

Maybe maybe just turn the camera off so we can hear you as close to the router as I can get Yeah, I would turn your video off so that it doesn't send as much and just ask your question and video keeps cutting in now

01:33:27

Says i'm having trouble unstable internet connection

01:33:33

Oh, all right Well, just turn turn your uh, yeah turn the camera off joe.

01:33:38

I'll text him. I don't remember where the router is All right, you're texting because I was just starting to do the same thing

01:33:48

Yeah, all right so modern technology But joe lives away from any of the big cities so Yeah, internet's not as good there as it is in some other places

01:34:04

Oh, here's one. Look at this Andrew Uh, how how do

01:34:11

I purchase a my pillow from canada the same way anyone else does you go to my pillow .com? Yeah, go to mypillow .com,

01:34:19

um, you or you call the 1 -800 uh, eight seven three one zero one seven six

01:34:26

But you should be able to get it from canada as well they're made in the usa so that's something um

01:34:33

And uh, you know, it's actually kind of funny This is the thing cancel culture. They tried to cancel him what ends up happening?

01:34:41

He he's ended up doing more business with being taken out of all the box stores because people like me are saying well

01:34:47

I'm gonna go buy a bunch of these now. All right. I'm gonna i'm gonna bring back in since joe's having trouble connecting um

01:34:54

We might have to just ask joe's question next week, um, but uh, so yeah, so you if you want to go through Uh a mecca a couple of it.

01:35:03

I'll give you like five minutes. Is that that sound good? Yeah. Yeah, that's good all right, so you

01:35:09

Would I be able to can I share is that all right if I share share my screen because I want to put up the yeah

01:35:15

Go for it. All right All right. So yeah, one of the the word, you know considering the word messiah

01:35:23

I don't see it appearing right now. Oh, there we go. Okay. There we go. I had to edit the screen.

01:35:29

There we go All right. So the word mashiach Um as it's pronounced in the hebrew, which is in the english messiah

01:35:38

All right, uh, it comes up, uh quite a bit of times and I just wanted to go over some of the times it comes up um and some of the scriptures that, uh use this word and so Um the first word the first time, uh, i'm gonna i'm just gonna go over not the first time it comes up But one of the first ones i'm gonna go over it comes from first samuel this word mashiach now you guys can

01:36:03

If you want to go back and double check to make sure i'm using all the right inserts You'll you'll be able to see that but um in first samuel chapter 26 verses 9 through 11 it says and david said unto

01:36:18

Abishai Destroy him not now. This is david talking about king. Saul when he had he had an opportunity to kill king.

01:36:24

Saul He said destroy him not for who can stretch forth his hand against the lord's

01:36:31

Anointed now this word anointed is mashiach all right, and so Literally, that's what he's saying here.

01:36:38

He's saying who can stretch his hand against the lord's messiah Right here.

01:36:43

Here's the thing Just I don't mean to cut you off but because maybe you missed it well,

01:36:49

I did not disagree that the word anointed Was used for other people

01:36:56

Okay, what we were talking about last week was in the passage in daniel chapter 9

01:37:02

When it spoke of a messiah That was going to bring an end to sin.

01:37:07

That's a specific messiah right and so in in uh daniel

01:37:14

Uh 9 24 I had I had said that the messiah that's referenced there that's referenced in in verse 25 messiah the prince

01:37:23

Okay, so it was it's a specific messiah But that messiah was one that in verse 24.

01:37:30

There was six things. He was that were we're gonna That he was going to do Okay, okay to bring a finish to transgression to make an end of sin

01:37:40

To make an atonement for iniquity to bring everlasting righteousness to seal up the vision of prophecy and to anoint the most holy place

01:37:48

Those are six things that this specific messiah was going to do in those 77 year periods

01:37:58

And and so the reason that I was bringing it up last week is because that messiah Is the one that hasn't come yet according to you

01:38:10

Right. He the messiah that brings an end of sin That that's the the ultimate messiah being described the messiah the prince and yet in verse 26 it says an exact time frame that that this 62 weeks

01:38:24

Uh that after sorry in verse 25 that after the seven weeks and the 62 weeks is when the messiah is going to come

01:38:32

Right now I was saying that those were Seven seven year periods you were saying they were seven days

01:38:39

Okay, which makes it even harder because the decree to rebuild jerusalem was 2 ,500 years ago

01:38:47

Right. And so if if this messiah hasn't come on the scene That's where I was saying that we have have the difference so i'm not saying that there weren't different messiah

01:38:59

Yeah that the word anointed wasn't used of of priests or or different people, but it wasn't used in the same way

01:39:07

Let's let's talk about it this way. We speak of the disciples in the new testament

01:39:14

That's different than every disciple. Everyone's a disciple, but there's the disciples We have the apostles

01:39:20

That's different than all christians that are apostles. Every christian is a sent out one But just because we're sent out doesn't mean

01:39:28

That we're the apostles it's it's a difference. So this is the messiah the the until the messiah the prince

01:39:36

Okay, let me let me maybe I can pull up, uh, daniel nine because I think there's something that Um, I think there's something here that's getting overlooked and it comes from a previous verse.

01:39:48

So let me stop screen sharing and then Um rescreen share so I can pull

01:39:54

Up description. Maybe we can we can look at this together Uh, all right, so, uh, did it come up Hold up There we go.

01:40:07

Okay okay, so In verse 16, I think what's one of the main important things to to realize about this prophecy in daniel is verse 16 um

01:40:21

Or maybe Yeah, when we when we look at verse 16, we have to realize that daniel is coming before the most high uh, he's coming before you know our heavenly father for deliverance from Uh babylon and this persian captivity that they're in So when you look in verse 16, i'll just read it.

01:40:41

It says oh lord thy mercy is over all Let I pray thee thy wrath turn away

01:40:48

And i'm anger from the city jerusalem even that holy mountain For we have sinned and because of our iniquities

01:40:56

And those of our fathers jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach among all the all around about us

01:41:04

And now oh lord our god hearken to the prayer of thy servant and his supplication

01:41:10

And cause the face and cause thy face to shine on thy desolate sanctuary for thine own sake right, so first he's he's

01:41:21

Addressing the most high for the captivity that they're in and knowing because jerusalem at this point is desolate

01:41:27

The babylonians desolated jerusalem. They completely brought it down And and then we had the persians come in after and conquer the babylonians

01:41:36

But this is what he's addressing our heavenly father for so when we see

01:41:42

Right going down to the verses that you're talking about. Um, you know when we see him now come into The most high begin to speak right and he's telling him in 24

01:41:53

He's starting to say 70 weeks have been determined upon thy people and upon the holy city

01:41:58

For sin to be ended and to seal up transgressions And to blot out the iniquities and to make atonement for iniquities and to bring in everlasting righteousness

01:42:07

And to seal the vision and the prophet and to anoint the most holy He's talking about this time period that's been determined for them to finish this captivity that they're in That started with the babylonians and now is being carried on to the persians.

01:42:22

So this is the time period he's talking about bringing to an end And so in the last time when we when we talked

01:42:29

I briefly mentioned that there was a priest Uh, the son of joseph joseph was the high priest and you can find this in uh, zachariah chapter zachariah chapter 3 and chapter 6 uh joseph the high priest

01:42:44

Who may be called joshua? Uh, i'm sorry joseph deck the high priest his son's name was joshua

01:42:49

He was actually brought before the most high even as it says, you know that um,

01:42:56

That one will be brought before the most high In chapter 3 you see he's brought before the most high

01:43:02

And it even says the devil stood at his right hand and then in chapter 6 you see that the most high commands zachariah to crown joshua as Um and to anoint him and so we literally see that from from daniel giving this supplication

01:43:22

The the most high responds and says look This is okay. So you're you're you're seeking me about getting out of babylon

01:43:30

This is now the time period that i've told you 70 weeks have been determined upon thy people and upon the holy city for sin to be ended

01:43:41

So he's told now he's telling him he's giving him a time frame Look, this is what you can look forward towards And then what you see is you kind of actually see that because 70 weeks as you mentioned

01:43:49

I think when we talked last time is about a little bit over a year, right? it's about if you do if you're if you're doing 77 day periods, but like I said,

01:43:59

I don't think that is and and If you take it as seven seven year periods it fits with history

01:44:06

In the first seven the first 49 years if that's how long it took to rebuild jerusalem

01:44:12

Uh, the next 62 seven year periods it brings us to the time of christ Wait, wait, you said i'm sorry.

01:44:18

You said how long did it take to rebuild jerusalem? It was the 49 years 49 years

01:44:25

Okay, i'd have to i'd have definitely have to look into that to that again just to double check um, but What what

01:44:33

I do see here is is for me that for me what's what's very clear here is that Daniel is addressing the most high about the captivity that they're in And then the most high response to bring them out of that captivity, which he does and it doesn't take 400

01:44:49

Years for them to come out of this captivity It doesn't you know, it doesn't take them that long to come out of this captivity

01:44:55

So for me that time frame it sounds it sounds really off because we do see that once the most high response to him

01:45:02

He brings them out of that captivity 400 years question. Hold on.

01:45:07

Hold on. I would agree i'd agree with that. It sounds off. You know, why? Because you just switched what the text says and what

01:45:15

I said, I didn't say that this is to take them out of captivity See that was never said so so you're you're

01:45:23

I don't know if you noticed what you did there But you said well, it doesn't make sense captivity, but that was never the issue.

01:45:29

See the captivity was 70 years of captivity And it was because they skipped seven seven year rests for the land

01:45:40

Because they had 70 years That they were supposed to let the land rest every seventh year and for 70 times they didn't do that That was why they went into a 70 year captivity and so What you have here is now that 70 years is coming to a close daniel knows that But that's out of the captivity.

01:46:00

This isn't dealing with the captivity Okay. No, it is. That's why he's and that's that's one of the things in verse

01:46:06

Verse 16 that he's praying to the most high About bringing them out of captivity and then this was his response.

01:46:14

No, but but the thing is is that Gabriel gives a response and I know aaron you want to say something gabriel gives the response

01:46:21

Okay to the to what he's what he was praying he gets he gets an answer But the answer this is not dealing with the captivity is the answer is not the captivity.

01:46:30

Gabriel is giving him a different answer Okay, gabriel's giving and because he says it right here 70 weeks have been decreed for your people and holy city

01:46:40

That's who it's for the people in the city and there's the six things that are going to take place

01:46:46

So those six things don't deal with captivity Okay So so that's the thing that you know we're dealing with is the the six things

01:46:59

So aaron, I know you wanted to say something. Let me go ahead I was just going to ask a question of a mecca

01:47:05

Where do you stand on the the concept of double fulfillment when it comes to prophecies in the old testament?

01:47:12

um for me What I see what I see a lot when it comes to the double fulfillment of prophecy

01:47:18

For me if there's going to be a double fulfillment of prophecy number one It should be spoken again.

01:47:25

For instance when you talk about the captivities, right? When the most high in deuteronomy 28 when he laid down the blessings and the curses for his people he told them you know if you break these

01:47:37

Commandments and you walk you turn away from me and you do all these things You're going to go back and you know, you're going to serve your enemies.

01:47:43

They'll rule over you all those things And then what you see is every time You know, he let's say they broke the commandments.

01:47:50

They would go into captivity. They would repent he would bring them out Then it just that was kind of like the cycle that was going on Right.

01:47:57

So every time they were about to go into captivity the most high would speak again and warn them

01:48:02

He would send his prophets to tell them so if there's going to be a double fulfillment of prophecy for me number one it should be

01:48:10

Respoken again before it happens Well, I know and I just before you continue I would just say of that be be careful um, because i've i've spoken with a lot of people who um, you would completely disagree with Um on certain topics who are bold enough to say well if god wanted to such and such he should have such and such um

01:48:31

God's gonna do what he's gonna do regardless of what we think so I would say just be just be careful making the statement

01:48:37

Well, if there's going to be a double fulfillment, then you know that needs to be said the second time, you know just be careful because if god chose to do it in the way that you don't like Well, that's okay.

01:48:47

That's That almost sounds like the guy that I debated on calvinism where he said well you know

01:48:53

God would never give a command that we can't keep And and where does god say that and and I brought up?

01:49:00

Okay. God says be holy as I am holy, right? Unfortunately, the sad part is what seth decided to do there instead of just going.

01:49:06

Hey, you're right I might I gotta throw out that theory because god does give us commands. We can't keep instead he goes I can be holy like god is holy let me let me tell you a mecca why

01:49:15

I asked the question because as you study through the new testament, the the writers did a fantastic job of Making it very clear where christ was the fulfillment of these old testament passages um point for point um, so i'm so one of the things that I think is interesting is the fact that you know, for example, um,

01:49:37

Uh david multiple times, you know my god my god, why have you forsaken me and christ is quoting that on the cross

01:49:44

David meant it in the moment. It was his words And yet it was also predictive and he he didn't sit down and say this is a prophecy

01:49:53

Um, i'm i'm prophesying what the what the messiah is going to say when we've all turned against him

01:49:58

I mean all throughout isaiah, you know speaking of the suffering servant and whatnot. There are so many things that were point for point exactly

01:50:06

What christ fulfilled and So I guess i'm confused. I mean,

01:50:11

I guess you could you know You could toss out double fulfillment and just say well, you know It was if it was fulfilled in the old testament

01:50:17

It wasn't going to be fulfilled again in the future at any point Which if you do that, you got a lot of a lot of end times prophecy issues that you're going to struggle with um, but and maybe this was answered on the last show because I didn't watch all of it, so I don't want to Uh take up too much time, but i'm just curious

01:50:32

Um how it is you feel comfortable saying that When christ in the new testament clearly fulfilled these old testament prophecies

01:50:42

Well, we don't count that well, one of the things that we talked about in in the first week was that Number one when you actually look at the entirety of those prophecies that you say fulfilled one we went over was matthew

01:50:56

Um the prophecy in matthew about the virgin birth It comes from isaiah 7 when you read isaiah 7 in the full context there was more

01:51:04

Than just the virgin birth to that prophecy. There was there was so Same thing is true.

01:51:09

Isaiah 11. Yeah Yeah, it absolutely in in michael in michael 5 2. It's the exact same thing

01:51:15

There's there's more than just somebody who's there from the beginning we're talking about now also later on it mentions in verse 16 a

01:51:22

Deliverance from the assyrian. So for me if we're talking about double prophecy You need to fulfill all the requirements of that prophecy or you make that prophet a liar because everything that the most high said must come to pass according to what to what the prophet spoke if the prophet said anything

01:51:38

And that didn't come to path. They had a they had a death sentence So if we're going to look at prophecies because especially when we dealt with the matthews, uh, i'm sorry isaiah 7

01:51:49

In verse 16 it specifically said and before that child So now it's pointing back to the same child in verse 14

01:51:57

Before that child reaches a certain age The two kings which you're afraid of a has shall be their land shall be forsaken

01:52:06

So if that child is is if the messiah is that child then you need to see that happen with that messiah

01:52:14

And because we don't see that happen with that messiah Therefore to me he cannot be that child

01:52:22

Well, yeah, and that's where you know, you and I are going to disagree on the um, The double fulfillment aspect of it because it was completely perfectly fulfilled within the old testament context but then it was also

01:52:35

Fulfilled in a later context. I I said isaiah chapter 11 because in that passage it talks about that that root

01:52:41

You know coming from jesse, which yeah, which is really specific You know what you're gonna you're gonna name jesse and you get the line of david and so on and so forth um

01:52:50

But it talks about things that christ did during his earthly ministry, but it also talks about things that he hasn't done yet Things that he is going to do when he returns

01:52:58

Uh things that have not been completely then that doesn't mean that because christ didn't do all of those things from isaiah 11 um when he was here on earth the first time that therefore

01:53:08

Christ didn't fulfill the prophecy because it wasn't all fulfilled. Um, it's there's a future fulfillment of the later parts

01:53:15

I'm sure you've heard of the the mountain view aspect to this. You know what i'm talking about Um, I haven't heard that but I think

01:53:23

I can put my head around what you're what you're getting We talked about it last week. Oh, yeah Yeah, I live in the blue ridge mountains of north carolina and my favorite view

01:53:33

Is when my wife and I are out walking there's just this vista of mountains. It's so glorious But i've actually hiked those mountains too and from where i'm walking, you know, the mountains

01:53:44

Are like this you can't tell with the human eye how much space there is in between them You see them almost as if they're the same singular mountain

01:53:51

But as you get close to them and you notice that there are miles in between peaks

01:53:57

It has everything to do with how you're looking at it And so oftentimes, you know people say with the double fulfillment is that these old testament prophets were seeing what?

01:54:05

We don't even know how they saw. I mean, yeah, sometimes they were given a vision. Sometimes god told them things but Their visions such a hard time explaining what they were looking at because it just blew their minds so often

01:54:18

Um that well as they were looking at these things they didn't always completely Perfectly see the time frames involved.

01:54:24

They saw things happening But they didn't always uh, god didn't always give to them And you know, this is going to happen the first time christ comes and this is going to happen later so that's an

01:54:33

Important thing to consider because you see that even in the fulfillment of the old testament prophecies that happen with this in the context of the old testament

01:54:40

Okay. No, I completely understand what you're saying I understand your point of view because I trust me I used to like like he knew he said earlier you know,

01:54:48

I was I came from I mean even in my youth. I wasn't very um book knowledgeable With the with the word that happened within my life actually within the last three years is when

01:54:58

I really began to do my studying And researching things and I began messianic Christian like all about you know, and for me like if you if you're familiar with the hebrew roots movement, it's

01:55:11

That's messianic It's also that we got to keep the law. So that was kind of my background and I seen

01:55:17

I mean, I mean man, I would look through the old testament and I would just oh he's here. He's there. He's there He's I mean

01:55:22

I seen him everywhere, right? And then as a jesus What was that?

01:55:28

But just not in jesus you see him all throughout the old testament. Yeah. Well, that's what i'm saying I I seen him

01:55:33

I seen the messiah all throughout the old testament and you know from from my knowledge But as I began to look for context and read for context to get the understanding of the old testament

01:55:42

I put myself in the people in the shoes of the people in the old testament to say, okay If these people were hearing something and they seen it fulfilled in their time

01:55:50

They're they're looking at it saying yo, this was fulfilled, right? Even even the prophets would say. Yep.

01:55:56

My word came to pass. That's it They're not saying saying that there's a double meaning and I don't believe anybody in the old testament was looking for this other

01:56:03

Aspect to be a double fulfillment of prophecy. They were looking to say look it came to pass This is who fulfilled it, you know, this person fulfilled that this person fulfilled this this person fulfilled that and that's it you know, and so for me that's it makes it hard for me like when

01:56:20

I look at the when you talk about double prophecy and then you see the Incompleteness of the fulfillment of certain prophecies

01:56:28

That's what really for me threw up a red flag and said this couldn't be This individual because he's not feeling fulfilling these prophecies according to what the most high said

01:56:38

Yeah, so so one of I mean, there's there's a lot in in It's it's at the end of the show but You know one of the things i'm gonna i'm gonna do this um, what

01:56:50

I want to do is If I if I sent you a book Called torah ism.

01:56:56

Would you read it? Yes, sir. Okay It's it's basically a book that addresses hebrew

01:57:03

The hebrew roots movement and and ones like it So what we're going to do is what i'm going to you you

01:57:10

I send me your your you know your name and address so I can I can order a copy for you

01:57:15

Okay, and i'll send you that to read through Um, I think that might be helpful for you um

01:57:22

And and we'll try to you know, we'll try maybe next week we can we can get further along in this You know, we're

01:57:27

I know that you you're going you're you know, folks I want you to recognize some with a mecca different than some of the other people we've had on here

01:57:36

Is He's not just sitting here and trying to argue and debate Okay um

01:57:42

Just for debate sake if you're seeing he went and spent the week trying to trying to look up some things we talked about and so You know, this is something where?

01:57:52

I want to point a difference. Let me use two examples, you know a mecca and seth who had debated on calvinism

01:57:59

You notice the difference? Seth got very prideful. Seth, you know last week. He was all over the chat, you know, he still

01:58:07

Blowing up the video, uh in the comments from the debate You know and people are still answering them.

01:58:14

The reality is is that That's a person who's who's very prideful and is is you know

01:58:21

Trying to prove he's right to the point where he he'll commit blasphemy to to hold his position, which is really sad

01:58:28

That's not a mecca Right. I hope you guys see a difference. So why why would I spend the time with him?

01:58:35

Very simple Because he's trying to understand And he's not someone that's just he's not here just trying to teach us just trying to convince us how right he is

01:58:45

Right. There's a difference there when you are Practicing apologetics you have to recognize the difference of the person you're dealing with you're dealing with a guy like seth

01:58:55

That's where the scripture verse don't throw your pearls before swine would come in You're dealing with a guy like a mecca.

01:59:02

You're going to take the time and work with him Okay so I just wanted to to point that out to folks because I mean we're here to Teach you guys to show you guys how to do apologetics.

01:59:12

So a couple things real quick Uh before we we close out um, and and mecca i'm going to keep looking

01:59:19

I was trying to find I actually have Someone that I knew a professor did his dissertation his doctoral dissertation

01:59:26

On those very passages that you were saying or have the dual meanings and he

01:59:31

I mean It's about 700 800 pages of explanation of that. So i'm trying to wait for that to send to you.

01:59:38

Um, so For for chris honholds, I did get a text message here uh from joe conkle and and uh, he's he just said this he said, um,

01:59:49

Because he's at he couldn't get a good connection. He just said love you guys and tell chris I don't know why but when

01:59:56

I see him I think of buddy the elf Look, he told me to he told me to read it.

02:00:04

I i'm just after all right, let's finish up. Um, i'm gonna uh

02:00:10

Put a mecca Out and john you had um, you had a question real quick. Let's seek to answer

02:00:16

We'd answer this one before we close out tonight. Okay, because we're officially in anthony time. So i'm really excited about that um

02:00:23

Okay So aaron anthony time is because when when anthony was hosting the show when

02:00:30

I couldn't I couldn't be here Every show he does goes over the two hour mark.

02:00:36

And so now officially anything after 10 o 'clock is called anthony time and Where everyone's cheering?

02:00:44

because anthony time So go ahead and I think just to prolong it to get into anthony time

02:00:51

I understand yeah, I know I know I'm, just drawing it out. Anyway, uh quick question was uh this

02:00:58

I was having a conversation on facebook group and and so Basically, uh, the question was who raised jesus from the dead, you know

02:01:07

Did he did he raise himself or was it god the father and or? Or was it the trinity itself or whatever?

02:01:16

And so I refer to the verse of jesus when he said Uh destroyed this temple, you know, uh, and three days later

02:01:26

I will raise uh Or i'll reason myself so I would say that it was jesus himself that raised himself, uh, but You guys also make probably some good comments also.

02:01:41

So go ahead. Let's put it this way. There's there's certain acts that we see all three members of the trinity involved in Creation Would be one the resurrection would be another

02:01:57

So to say did jesus raise himself from the dead the answer is yes But as in private chat as aaron said

02:02:05

Who raised him from the dead god? Jesus is god So You know the the you can say the father did it you could say the spirit did it and you could say jesus did it sure

02:02:18

Because god did it The same you can say with creation Because we see all three members of the trinity created right

02:02:28

But we do you mind if I share a couple of these verses here? To go for there are verses. Oh, yeah, and acts 2 32 says god has raised this jesus to life

02:02:38

Um, you specifically said, you know christ said I I will I will raise it again in three days

02:02:44

He said no one takes my life from me. I lay it down I have a full authority to lay it down and the authority to take it up again

02:02:49

And then romans 8 11 says and if the spirit of him who raised jesus from the dead is living in you

02:02:55

So it's there in the scriptures. It's easy to see if you if you say, you know, only one of the you know

02:03:00

God had did it you're denying the scriptures that say the other members of the godhead were involved Gotcha So specifically galatians 1 1 says that the father raised jesus from the dead

02:03:12

Um first peter 3 18 says the spirit raised jesus from the dead We also see that in romans 1 4 romans 8 11

02:03:20

And then john as you just uh stated in john jesus says he'll raise himself from the dead.

02:03:26

So we have passage we have verses Um where all three of them are said to have raised jesus from the dead including acts 2 24 where it just says in general god raised jesus from the dead

02:03:37

So it's pretty clear Okay. Yep And so, uh before before we end up closing out, uh, just to let folks know, you know, if you saw when uh ameca was sharing on his his

02:03:50

Sharing his desktop Uh, you saw that he was going online To get some tools to try to be able to do his bible search

02:03:58

And and that's a great idea that works, you know using free tools Um, but there's something else you can get and not only could you get it?

02:04:06

But you could support striving for eternity at the same time and that is logos bible software

02:04:12

It is a great software product. It happens to be what I use And we actually they are a sponsor here

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Of the apologetics live and to make it easy for you because they gave us a link that's kind of hard But to make it easy for you, all you have to go do is go to bit dot l y b i t dot l y slash s f e

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Logos and if you go there you will get five free books From striving for eternity on your new logos system

02:04:43

Even if you're upgrading your logos, you can go there and get five free books on us along with the discounts that logos provides uh, so now we

02:04:53

Before we close out. There's a couple comments here that I did notice you know, um humble clay said, um

02:05:01

Love you guys. God bless back to work But then there was something else. Uh, chris honholtz is always letting us know when we have different advertising breaks

02:05:09

Um, there were some comments that I noticed here anthony that you know, humble clay says anthony time rocks

02:05:16

You know and melissa says I would listen to the show even if it went on for another hour and Kt had said tonight anthony

02:05:26

Can hardly get a word in edgewise, but I think I think the comment that that wins it is kt's other comment that said

02:05:33

Anthony could talk all night people can have their kids go to sleep listening to him and that Is the winning comment of the night?

02:05:44

Of course, I think you're taking it out of context, but no No, that was that was right in direct context of melissa's

02:05:52

I would listen to it for another hour and then kt said anthony can talk on there If anyone that doesn't know go evangelize with anthony, uh sometime and you'll see he can talk all all night because Once he gets on the box preaching he doesn't get off the box preaching

02:06:08

And I always look to see who's to my right if it's somebody other than andrew i'll kindly get down if it's andrew

02:06:14

I kindly stay on. Yes I mean what happens people have their kids listening to him.

02:06:22

So there you go Anthony is his own anesthetic. Yes Uh, so so folks we're we really do appreciate you listening appreciate all those appreciate aaron coming in Uh chris,

02:06:36

I know you had your night off and you came in appreciate that Uh mecca and the others who who came in Um Real quick before we go.

02:06:43

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