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Brian Onstead Interview
Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.
In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.
Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.
Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth, and we here at the show have a little slogan, and that slogan is �Always Provocative, Always Biblical, but not in that order. No, the real slogan is �Always Biblical, Always Provocative, Always in that Order.
And why No Compromise Radio? Well, it started off with �I didn�t want to compromise and then I wanted to make it more Christ-centered as my theology was moving to a Christ-centered theology, and so Jesus never compromised.
Remember, He said, �I always do the things that are pleasing to my Father and that also at the cross, holiness and God�s grace were not compromised. And so that�s why it�s called No Compromise Radio.
Every day is different, and on Wednesdays we have interviews, and today we have Pastor Brian Onstead on the show. Pastor Brian, welcome to No Compromise Radio. Well, thanks for having me, Mike. Now Brian, have we ever met face-to-face?
We have. Okay, tell me about that, because I don�t remember.
Well, it was about ten years ago. I was at Omaha Bible Church. Oh yes, yes. And I was assigned with the task of leading the college group at the time, and we had a retreat, and you came out and taught on redemption in Christ for Ephesians, and it was a really good time.
I think somebody actually got converted from your messages there, and so it was quite memorable.
Well, now I remember, and one of the things I remember, Brian, is during that retreat we had some off-time, some down-time, and I remember just taking a walk. I wanted a little exercise, and I remember walking down those gravel roads in Nebraska thinking, �I used to ride motorcycles down such a road, and now God has saved me, and now I�m teaching the Bible.
And so I loved that weekend with you and Chris Peterson and Omaha Bible Church.
So you�re currently a pastor. Yeah, I was. Go ahead. I was going to say, it definitely was a highlight for the�it was called the Crossroads Ministry. It�s a highlight every year, and that was a particular highlight, I think, of the entire time that I was there.
It was really good, really clear teaching on redemption in Christ, and I remember you starting out by saying that about 20 years from that time, you were kind of in a lost condition, and it�s amazing to see what the Lord does, not only in your life but in all of our lives.
It�s quite amazing.
Absolutely. Well, in light of that, Brian, this interview today is to get our listening audience to know you a little bit better. They can go to at Brian Onstead, O-N-S-T-E-A-D, on Twitter to follow you, and they can go to your church website as well that I�ll have you talk about in a moment.
But tell us a little bit about your conversion and how the Lord�I mean, the Lord saves the same way in terms of, you know, regenerates and justified, and we understand that. But how did God providentially move people to give you the gospel for you to then respond?
How did you get saved?
Yeah. Well, I grew up Roman Catholic, and as Steve Lawson said, the CEOs know Christmas and Easter only. So, I wasn�t really a serious Roman Catholic. You know, my grandparents were rather serious. But through very difficult circumstances during my teenage years, I guess you could say I was the poster child of a troubled teen, the Lord started to bring me to more religious convictions as far as, well, church is important, and maybe this is the way out.
But it wasn�t until about, I�d say, five or seven years after that that I heard the gospel there at Omaha Bible Church. Before that, I had moved out of the Roman Catholic church and was going to kind of a broadly evangelical church, which has gone downhill since the time I was there.
But I�m sure at times I had heard the gospel, but was just blind to it and deaf to it. But it was an Omaha Bible Church through a dear friend of mine named Wayne, who said, �You need to come to this church.
They�re preaching the Bible, they�re preaching the gospel. And I remember going there around 2005, and your brother, Pastor Pat, was preaching on justification and there was ten points. And he got through the first five that morning and said, �Well, I�m just going to give the next five that evening.
I said, �I usually don�t go to the evening service, but I need to go, I need to hear the rest of it. And so through his preaching ministry and then through just reading of the scriptures, that Lord just opened my eyes.
I saw my sin in a different way. If you would have asked me, �Am I a sinner I would have said, �Well, yeah, of course, that�s the right answer. But I saw it, and that�s when I started to seek salvation, started to call out on the name of the Lord.
And the Lord was pleased to open up my eyes, and it was through the preaching there at Omaha Bible Church. And I started to understand things, and fruit started to be born in my life. And at that time, I was still in Omaha, and the Lord put in me a desire to teach, and that was recognized there at Omaha Bible Church.
And the elders directed me to attend Westminster Seminary in California, for which I�m very grateful. I spent three years there. And then I�m currently in my first call, not to say I don�t anticipate on getting a second call or moving on.
First and last. I don�t know. What�s that? The first and last call. Right, right. I�m here in a small town in Montana at a small church, and I�ve been here for two and a half years, and it�s quite amazing even to reflect on where I was and where I am now.
It�s all the Lord�s sovereign grace, for sure.
Well, Brian, I want to hear more about Westminster and your ministry in Montana, but before we do that, I was thinking as you were discussing God�s saving work in your life, 1 Corinthians 15, verse 11, �Whether then it was I or they, so we preach, and so you believed.
Talk a little bit about how powerful the Word of God is. Because you just simply herald God�s Word, you preach God�s Word from the pulpit, you might evangelize, you know, your friend down the street just with the Word of God, and then God, at His pleasure, through the preaching of the Word, opens people�s hearts and minds, and that�s quite a difference than most churches today trying to figure out in a man-centered way how to crack the code and get people to believe.
What do you think about that as a pastor, and how much encouragement does that give you? You just preach the Word, and then God does His work.
Yeah, well, I think that�s one of the main differences between the Reformed faith and just your general evangelical theology. I think one of the main differences or distinctives is trusting in God�s, it�s called ordinary means of grace, that God has ordained means by which He saves people.
Preaching of the Word, Paul says in Romans 10, �How will they hear without someone preaching So, the Lord has not ordained that some angel would write something up in the sky, or you can think even of the Apostle Peter in Acts chapter 10, where Cornelius received a vision from the angel, and the angel didn�t say, �Let me just give you the gospel while I�m here.
He had Cornelius send for a man to go preach the gospel to him, and so the Lord uses weak vessels, He uses sinful men to stand up by the power of the Holy Spirit and the grace of Christ, preach the text of Scripture, and He uses visible words, as they�ve been called, baptism in the Lord�s Supper, to picture the gospel.
There�s nothing flashy about it, there�s nothing according to man�s understanding of things, extraordinary or something that really stands out, and I think in our culture we kind of want to have something big, have that big experience, have that big revival.
If you just have this big epiphany, then that�s going to change everything, but it takes faith to believe that me, just some sinful man, standing up and preaching the Word of God, that that is going to bring the change that God desires, that that�s what God has used to save souls, and that that�s what God has used to sanctify His people, and so that takes a big burden off of my shoulders as a pastor.
I cannot build Christ�s Church. I cannot do anything from a spiritual point of view to get somebody to believe the gospel. Rather, God has just called me to be faithful in His ordinary means in administering them, and the Lord, by His sovereign Spirit, will make it effectual in His timing.
So Brian, what does that do to all the Montana guns and venison outreaches, and when you do the power team stuff and you bring people on stage to break the cinders and rocks and all that stuff to get people�s attention, how�s that working out for you?
Well, we need some money first to be able to do stuff like that.
Well, that�s the catch -22. You need the money to break the cinders, you need the cinders to get the money. I was thinking about how God, in just very ordinary ways, as you said earlier, would do things, and especially when you think about the Lord�s ministry, the humiliation before the exaltation, and of course, during this time of year, people think about the birth of Jesus on a regular basis.
The angel said to them, Luke 2, �Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior who is Christ the Lord, and this will be a sign for you.
You can imagine today what some of these churches might want that sign to be, and it could be the earth shaking, and there could be all kinds of spectacular fireworks, or everybody�s going to be levitated up 30 meters and they won�t be let down until they believe.
What�s the sign? �You will find a baby wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger. And of course then the angel multitude said, �Glory to God in the highest and on earth, peace among those with whom he is well pleased.
And so that�s just like the Lord, very counterintuitive, very unlike man�s way of doing things, don�t you think?
Yeah, I also am reminded of in the book of Numbers where some of the people who had grumbled and complained were judged by God, and they were judged by him sending the serpents to bite them, and they were basically on their deathbed, and he said, �Just look at a brass snake lifted up, and you will be healed.
And I can imagine myself or some others saying, �That�s ridiculous, I�m dying. I need something more than that, not just what�s this silly looking at something on a pole? It�s just something very ordinary, and the Lord promised to work through that.
And so God works in those ordinary ways.
I would try to find my snakebite kit, or, you know, try to suck out the venom, or, you know, something like that. Where�s the aloe vera juice or something? And here is not only a creature up on, you know, a representative of a creature up on a pole, but also an unclean thing, and of course we know Jesus wasn�t unclean, but they sure treated him as if he was, as he was the sin bearer.
Brian, tell us a little bit about Westminster Seminary. It�s probably not normal for people just in, you know, mainstream Bible churches to decide to go to Westminster Escondido, but why did you go there?
And then the real question, give me some kind of inside scoop on Scott Clarke. That�s what I�m really after. This entire interview is to find out the behind-the-scenes Dr. Clarke stuff, so why did you go to Westminster?
Well, the main reason I went to Westminster is because I was directed there by the elders there at Omaha Bible Church. I had some other options, and I had to wrestle with that decision for a couple of years.
I had visited other schools, and they all, at the time to me, they all seemed kind of the same, but I was, I wanted to submit to the elders that the Lord had provided to watch over my soul at the time, and all those men went out to visit the seminary with me, the seminary for a day, and Dr. Clarke was, I think, very thrilled that there were 14 people from Nebraska there, and he thought, you know, there�s going to be a revival.
But the difference between Westminster and the other schools on the surface was that, as Dr. Gottfried liked to say, they don�t take themselves seriously, but they take the gospel seriously, and they were, it was evident that they were humble, down-to-earth men, and there was a lightness about them, a joy there at the seminary.
But these were the men who were producing book after book after book of deep scholarly work defending the gospel, defending justification by faith. And there were other schools that, you know, didn�t have that same demeanor, but also these schools were not really defending justification by faith in a clear understanding of the gospel.
I remember for Seminary for a Day, it�s what they call it, where students or prospective students can go out there and visit the seminary and sit in some of the classes. I remember sitting in Dr. Fesco�s class on justification, and the first question he asked is, �How does the covenant of redemption relate to the work of Christ as the second Adam
And I was just blown away by that, and I really didn�t want to leave. And so, under the direction of the Elder Sir at Omaha Bible Church, and seeing the difference, decided that that would be the school I should attend.
If I�m going to set aside three years of my life and be poor, it needs to be worth it. And if I need to be prepared for the ministry in the best way possible, because the ministry is a very serious calling, I wanted the best possible education and training that I could get.
And I believe that that was Westminster Seminary in California.
Now, Brian, of course, they have some Baptists there in the Baptist Study Program, at least before it is going to move or has moved. I don�t know the exacts, but how did you stay a Baptist at Westminster Escondido?
There�s a proverb that says, �One man�s case seems right until another comes along and examines it. And so, I wanted to hear the arguments on both sides, and I think a lot of it was just patience. You know, why are these great godly men, such as Dr. Clark, Dr. Fesco, Dr. Godfrey, why are they paedobaptists?
They�re not dumb. They�re very intelligent men, and they take the faith seriously. It doesn�t mean that they are going to be right in everything, but, you know, that�s a consideration. So, you heard their arguments, and I didn�t talk about baptism my first year there at seminary.
I just soaked it in. Dr. Clark did say from the beginning that they were going to put me through the meat grinder and hope that I came out right, and they did put me through the meat grinder, and of course, I think I came out right, but they would probably differ on that.
But just paying attention to their arguments and making sure I understood their arguments, and then I had lunch with various professors, Dr. Clark being one of them, just to talk about that and say, �Okay, is this your understanding of paedobaptism
And I articulated that to them, and they said, �Yes, that is correct. I�d get tested, of course, in some of the exams, and the professor�s score would indicate that I am understanding their position.
And then hearing the Baptist side of things, and, you know, the Baptists today look very different than Baptists from the 17th century. That was one of the things that the Baptists in the 17th century really had to wrestle through and think through deeply, because it would cost them.
At the time when they made the switch, a lot of these Baptists in the 17th century were Puritans and paedobaptists, and after studying the issues, they came out on the Baptist side, and it wasn�t just, �Oh, you know, it�s just who we are, just, you know, this type of church we�re going to be a part of.
There were some criminal penalties associated with those beliefs, and so they thought through it deeply, they took care to wrestle through the issues, and hearing their arguments, and, you know, the arguments of those who formulated the 1689, or the Second London Baptist Confession of Faith, that�s what convinced me.
There was one particular Baptist named Nehemiah Cox, and there�s a book called �From Adam to Christ, Covenant Theology from Adam to Christ and basically it�s just the primary sources from Nehemiah Cox, and also John Owen is included in that, and John Owen�s articulation of the New Covenant from Hebrews chapter 8.
That book that was instrumental, it was seeing that, you know, there were good men who had a confession of faith, who had thought through these issues, reading them, that really persuaded me and convinced me of being a Baptist, and, you know, there�s some difficult times there, because in the middle of seminary, my wife became pregnant, and then we had to say, �Okay, now is it sin if we don�t baptize our child
So we really had to wrestle through that, and also I had to wrestle through, you know, where am I going to minister later? Is it going to be a Baptist church, or is it going to be in a Presbyterian church?
And I need to do that with a clear conscience. So it was really the IRBS program that helped me, Dr. Jim Renahan, and we would take some classes there, and they are going to be a standalone seminary in 2018.
They�re in Fort Worth, I believe is where they�re going to be located, or Manfield, Texas, exactly, is, I believe, the city. But that was very helpful, because that program there, that exposed me to the Baptist arguments, which to me made much better sense.
Talking to Brian Onstead today. You can follow him Twitter, at Brian, O-N-S-T-E-A-D. Brian, if we were to listen to some of your sermons in Montana,.
What�s the website of the church there? It�s jeffersonvalleybaptistchurch .org.
All right, jeffersonvalleybaptistchurch .org, or you could just type in Brian, Pastor Brian Onstead. That will also get you there. I was half joking but half not. Give our listeners something about R. Scott Clark that was interesting to you, surprised you, something that we wouldn�t normally know, some kind of, I don�t mean inside scoop gossip or something, but just an interesting story or something about Dr. Clark.
I think that would be interesting.
Dr. Clark, you put a microphone in front of him, and he becomes a different person at times. He can be intimidating in the classroom. He has a great wealth of knowledge. He is very sharp in his wit, but he�s also very pastoral in his approach to the students one-on-one.
I remember my first exam, it was a midterm with him, and I didn�t do so well, and I thought, �Oh, man. This is 50 of my grade, essentially. I only have one more shot at this. Am I going to pass I came and talked to him and said, �This is my first semester.
I don�t even like Hebrew to begin with. It was another class that was giving me a difficult time, and Hebrew made me want to quit seminary altogether, and then I get this horrible test score. I was like, �Should I even continue on
He was very pastoral, very kind. If you weren�t going to make it, I would call you and tell you, and you�re going to be fine. Let me help you through this. Very kind and pastoral one-on-one, but in the classroom, it kept me in shape and got six-pack abs just from laughing all the time.
He was hilarious. He was telling us a story in early church history or patristics where he had a lady come in church in Kansas City when he was ministering. It was a church building that had been converted from a gas station.
He comes in to make a point that what he�s saying is important. This history that we�re learning is very important, particularly with regards to Gnosticism. He recounts a story of a lady coming in saying, �Pastor, you didn�t tell me that there were other books of the Bible referring to the so-called Gnostic Gospels, like the Gospel of Thomas and that sort of thing.
�I saw this on some documentary on the Discovery Channel, and you never said anything. We�re just meeting in the basement of a gas station. You can�t be right. The way he told the story is just hilarious.
He had us all rolling. He would tell a lot of stories like that. He really made it quite funny. There are times when some students would be offended by that. I never got offended, and I think most of my class didn�t get offended.
We just thought it was hilarious. Because of that, there were times when people would fill out the student evaluations. There were probably some people on the board who raised an eyebrow or two. His wife also worked there at the seminary as an administrative assistant there in the office.
She was just a dear, sweet lady. She brought in some brownies for us at one point. I said to her, �Now, is this to ease over everything that he said during class She looked at me with a serious look and goes, �What�s he been saying
Dr. Clark sometimes reminds me of Martin Luther and some of the ways that he puts things. He really cares about us. He cared about the truth. I remember a couple of times him holding back tears in class because he was recounting times when this federal vision or this final justification was being brought to churches that he knew of and that those sheep were being ravaged by this false teaching.
There�s one thing about him, he loves the gospel and he loves the doctrine of justification by faith and is a great defender.
Of it and is very passionate about it. Amen. Well, Brian, thank you for the opportunity to talk to you today. This is just kind of an intro we�ll have you on again. In real time, R .C. Sproul�s memorial service has started now, and so we�re going to wrap things up.
Brian, if people want to listen to your sermons, they can go to the website or they can follow you on Twitter. I don�t know if you�re on Instagram, Facebook, or anything like that, but they can probably find that online.
Brian Onstead, thank you for your gospel ministry in Montana and preaching the Word and for being on No Compromise Radio. Well, thanks for having me, Mike.
No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible-teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life-transforming power of God�s Word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text.
Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We�re right on Route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbcchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.