Crucifixion or Crucifiction?

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Queen Aunt, Assalamualaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh. Welcome. It's customary for us to normally start the event with a prayer from both the Christian side as well as from the Muslim side. I would like to honor Pastor Dennis Pillay to come forward to do the Christian renditioning.

And I would like to urge everyone to pay due respect, please.

Thank you. Very good evening to all of you. Would you please bow your heads with me as we pray this time. Our loving Heavenly Father, we are thankful tonight for giving us this privilege of coming together.

And we do so tonight in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, our Savior, who died for our sins and rose again the third day. And we bow before you, knowing that His resurrection brings justification to our sinful lives and causes us today to come into your presence boldly, not on any merits of our own, but by the precious token of the shed blood of our Lord Jesus.

We know, Lord, tonight we've come with two different religious groups, and we know that your presence is most important. We pray for those who are participating and those who are going to preside over these meetings and those that are going to sit and listen.

We ask you for the wonderful spirit of peace to prevail throughout our discourse and through all deliberations and dialogue. We pray that wisdom will be imparted to all of us through the learnings and through the teachings that we will derive.

We do pray tonight that truth will prevail. At the end of the day, your name will be glorified. We thank you today for this privilege and ask you to bless everyone in Jesus' name. Amen.

Thank you very much, Pastor. I would now like to call upon the Muslim side, who will do the rendition of the Qira, and I call upon Mohsin Rafiq. Guide us to the straight path. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, not of those who have incurred Thy wrath, nor of those who have gone astray.

The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. He taught the Qur 'an. He created man. He taught him to speak. The sun and the moon are measured. The stars and the trees prostrate. And He raised the heavens and set the balance.

That you do not transgress in the balance. And establish the balance with justice, and do not lose the balance. And the earth, He placed it for the people. In it are fruit, and date-palms with buds, and date-palms, and date-palms, and date-palms, and date-palms, and date-palms, and date-palms.

So which of the favours of your Lord would you deny? He created man from clay, like pottery. And He created the jinn from clay. So which of the favours of your Lord would you deny? The Lord of the two easts and the Lord of the two wests.

So which of the favours of your Lord would you deny? The two seas meet, between them is a barrier which they do not want. So which of the favours of your Lord would you deny? The pearl and the coral come out of them.

So which of the favours of your Lord would you deny? And to Him belong the ships that are set up in the sea, like the highest. So which of the favours of your Lord would you deny? The most gracious, most merciful, the cherisher and sustainer of the universe.

Peace be upon all His messengers, honourable speakers, guests, and respected elders. I greet you with the universal greeting of peace. My name is Fadil Hassan, and I'm indeed honoured this evening to be your Programme Director for the two leading professionals from two different continents.

One from the USA on my left, and the other from the shores of South Africa on my right. Dr. James White, the great white from the cold Atlantic, will lock horns this evening with Ayub Karim, the deadly dolphin from Durban, in the warm Indian Ocean on your shores.

These intellectual giants in the field of comparative religion will need evidence from each of their respective religious perspectives on the subject Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus, Fact or Fiction.

I shall introduce them shortly, but first, just some important house rules for tonight's debate. Firstly, each speaker will have 35 minutes each to present their argument. Then, we shall have a break for refreshments.

For about 15 minutes, tea and biscuits have been arranged. Thereafter, the first speaker will have a rebuttal for 15 minutes, followed by the second speaker, 15 minutes rebuttal as well. During question and answer session, which will last for about 30 minutes, one minute per questioner and two minutes each for the debater to respond.

During the summation, we'll allot five minutes each, the second speaker followed by the first speaker to close. Finally, I shall move the vote of thanks. Ladies and gentlemen, I trust you will cooperate in making my task easy as the program director this evening, in the same way that I remind and urge both honorable speakers to respect the decision of the program director at all times.

I would also urge them to be respectful from both sides and apply the necessary decorum that's required from both religions. I'm ably assisted this evening by my colleague, Rudolf Bossov, and Rudolf is from an organization called Anvurd.

The organization who invited Mr. Ayub Karim to respond to James White's challenge on this subject matter this evening. Welcome, Rudolf. Ladies and gentlemen, may I please urge you to switch off all cell phones as this would interfere with the acoustics of our video and sound recordings.

You'll notice that Dr. White is an international scholar and he's probably going to post this on YouTube as well. Now, ladies and gentlemen, our first speaker this evening is the deadly dolphin from Durban, Mr. Ayub Karim, is an understudy of the late world icon, Sheikh Ahmad Dirat.

Ayub is also the founder and president of the Islamic Comparative Religion Academy called ICRA, here in Durban in South Africa, and he's the author of an internationally distributed magazine entitled The Universal Challenge.

Dr. White, may I bring to your attention that Ayub is also a didi, not a doctor of divinity, meaning Dirat's disciple. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Ayub Karim.

Mr. Chairman, Dr. White, Rudolf, honored guests, peace be with you. I know Dr. White said that we need to start the clock once I'm speaking, but I want to make an exception here. I'm going to start just now.

But before I do, I would like to present this Quran to Dr. White as a gift. Now, this is an African Quran. I don't know whether he understands the language, but he can add this to his collection in the USA.

Okay, now I begin. Arabic. Ladies and gentlemen, tonight's subject that we are debating, the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, fact or fiction. And I would like to begin by throwing a challenge, which is given to us in the Bible, which I'm going to share with you, where St. Paul, in his letter to the Corinthian church, 1 Corinthians 15, verse 14, he basically throws the gauntlet to us, to the reader of the Bible, not particularly Muslims, but anyone who reads the Bible will see that this challenge is there, and he says, in no uncertain terms, if Christ be not raised, in other words, if Christ is not resurrected, then our preaching, then our faith is in vain, and our preaching useless.

These are very strong terms. It's like he's putting his neck on the block. If Christ be not raised, then our faith is in vain, and our preaching is in vain. That means everything that Christianity stands for is useless.

When we read further on, in his letter to the Corinthians, this is in chapter 15, verse 14, and you read in verse 35, he poses another question. He says, but someone will ask, how are the dead raised, and with what body do they come?

Naturally, if Christ is going to be raised from the dead, then I am curious enough, I would like to know, what does a resurrected body look like? So he asks, but someone will ask, and I am asking, how are the dead raised, with what body do they come?

And he goes on further in the following verse, and he says, that it must die first, before it is resurrected. So what you sow must die, and that which thou sow, in other words, in that which thou bury, is not the body that will be.

So it must die, and that which thou sow, that which thou bury, so in other words, you are going to bury a physical body, but that one that will be resurrected will definitely not be physical. It will be something else.

And we read on further. And we come to 1 Corinthians, chapter 15, from verse 42. So he says, and so it will be with the resurrection. It will be the body that is sown is perishable. It is raised imperishable.

It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in honor. It is sown in weakness, and it is raised in glory. It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. He gives four categories, rather three preceding categories, to come to the fourth one.

Now, some Bibles, I don't know which Bible Dr. White, which version of Bible Dr. White is using, but if you're using the King James Version or the NIV, then the word that is used, it is sown a natural body, and it is raised a spiritual body.

The Bible I frequently use is the Revised Standard Version, RSV 1971, and in that Bible it reads, it is sown a physical body, and it is raised a spiritual body. So you have the order. If Christ be not raised, everything within Christianity is useless.

With what body do they come? That which you sow is not the one that will be. So you're sowing a physical body. Jesus Christ was physical, so if you buried him, you buried him physically, but when he resurrects, he's not going to be physical, he's going to be something else.

And he gives the criteria, sown perishable, raised unperishable. Sown in dishonor, raised in honor. Sown in weakness, raised in glory. Sown a physical body, buried a physical body, it will be raised a spiritual body.

This is what it says. In order for us to verify, if these statements and this challenge, how does it fare according to the words of Jesus Christ? Now, I'm going to go to the allegedly post-resurrection era, when Jesus Christ appears to his disciples in the upper room.

This is Luke 24 from verse 36. And Jesus Christ himself appeared to his disciples in that upper room. And when he appeared, he greeted them in Hebrew, shalom aleichem, in Islam, assalamu alaikum, and in English, peace be with you.

And his disciples, upon seeing him, were terrified. They were affrighted. Why? Because they were thinking that he is a ghost. King James Version uses the word ghost. Revised Standard Version uses the word spirit.

Why? Because they were thinking that they were seeing a spirit. Now, these were his disciples. They should have had first-hand knowledge of the Lord and Savior, their Master, their Teacher, their Rabbi.

But when he appears to them, they are terrified. They are shocked. And Jesus Christ asked them, Why are you terrified? Why are you frightened? Why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Why do doubts arise in your hearts?

Now, a relationship between the Master and his disciples. And for the disciples to behave like this, My question is, Why were they frightened? Why were they terrified? Why did they think that he was a spirit?

The reason is simple. It's because all the knowledge that they had about Jesus Christ being crucified was not first-hand knowledge. They were not eyewitnesses to the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Definitely, they were not eyewitnesses. So, they heard that Jesus Christ was crucified. They heard that he was resurrected. But they never saw any of this. So, when Jesus Christ appears in the upper room, they are terrified.

And Jesus Christ said, Why do doubts arise in your hearts? Now, in order to prove his case, Jesus Christ tells his disciples, Behold my hands and feet and see that it is I myself, according to the King James Version.

Revised Standard Version, Look at me and see that it is I myself. Now, what I did here is that, you know, although the emphasis is I myself, he's making quite clear to them, and I had to go and check the Arabic, and the Arabic does not read Anta, it reads Aanta, which means the emphasis that this is me myself, nobody else.

And the reason why I checked the Arabic is because I don't know Aramaic. Okay? My knowledge of Greek is very, very weak. So, the closest to it is to go and check where the emphasis lie and for what reason.

So, if he said that this is I myself, that this is myself, that oh, this is me, there's no emphasis, but he's telling them that this is I myself. And then he goes on further, because his disciples were still confused, and he says, Handle me and see, touch me and see, for a spirit has no flesh and bones as you see me have.

Ladies and gentlemen, I ask you, when a man makes that kind of statement, when you think that he has died and resurrected, do you think he will come and tell you, handle me and see, touch me and feel, and he will go on to say that it is I myself, and he will say, for a spirit has no flesh and bones as you see me have, is he telling you that he's a spirit, or is he telling you that he's still a human being in the flesh?

You decide. But this is in the Bible. So, what Paul is saying is that Jesus Christ, if he was sown physically, if he was buried physical, then naturally according to his claim, in Corinthians chapter 15 verse 44, he was sown physical, buried physically, and naturally if he's resurrected, he has to be spiritual, but Jesus Christ denies that.

He says, I am not a spirit, I am still in the physical, and he says, have you here anything to eat? And they gave him a piece of a broil fish, and of a honeycomb, and he did eat. Did anyone of y 'all come anywhere, in any scripture, whether it is the Quran, the Bible, anywhere, that spirits would partake in a meal, I know, Dr. White might refer me to Abraham and the three messengers, but generally, the point I'm making here, is that if Jesus ate, when he had no reason to eat, then that would be pretentious on the part of Jesus Christ.

And if any Christian believes, and if Dr. White tells me that, he ate for the sake of eating, just to show his disciples, but he did not need to eat, then I would say that that is being pretentious. So he needed to eat, he was flesh and bones all the way.

That is the post-resurrection era. So, here I am producing evidence from the Bible itself, to show proof, and I'm leading this evidence, from the Bible, and this stands as proof, that the claim that Paul makes, that if Christ be not raised, then our preaching, that our faith is in vain, and our faith is useless.

And I think that this is proof, it's sufficient enough, that Jesus Christ was not resurrected. And if Jesus Christ is not resurrected, then everything that Christianity stands for, is in vain. From where I stand, and from what I read in the Bible, I'm saying this with all due respect to all Christians, even Dr. White, I firmly believe, that whatever Paul said over there, his claim fails hopelessly.

And that would lead me to believe, that everything that Christianity stands for, whether it's the faith, or the preaching, is all vanity. Now, why I say that, there were no eyewitnesses, I mean his disciples were not eyewitnesses, because according to Mark, chapter 14, verse 50, he tells us that, the disciples of Jesus Christ, in the garden of Gethsemane, forsook him and fled.

They ran away. And of course, many people would say, yes, but Peter came in, I've heard this argument before, and he came into the courtyard, and he was there for the trial, true, he was there for the trial, it's in the Bible.

But then, when the cock crowed three times, he had already denied Jesus before that, which Jesus has predicted, or rather prophesied, if you wish. But then he went outside, and he began wailing, he was crying, so when they took Jesus Christ to Golgotha, the place of crucifixion, he was not there.

So Peter himself, was not an eyewitness, to all that transpired. But I don't want to belabor that point. I want to get to the next point, and you know, I would ask Dr. White, to please clarify this for us.

And he needs to tell me, that if Jesus was physical, then he must show cause, he must lead evidence to prove, that the resurrection is a physical thing. And if he can prove that the resurrection is a physical thing, then he basically bulldozes what Paul says.

So it's a simple case of, Dr. White, heads I win, tails you lose. Now, the second part of this is that, if Christ was not resurrected, if he was not raised, then that means he did not die. If he was not resurrected, he did not die.

If he did not die, he was not crucified. If he was not crucified, then I ask you, what is the worthiness of your faith? Simple arguments. Nothing complicated. Simple English, as it is simple in the Bible itself.

However, we do have Christians, I have met a few, that you get Christians who would believe, that Jesus Christ was crucified, but not resurrected. I think I watched one of, Dr. James White's debates, on his site, where he debated somebody that, actually didn't believe in the resurrection, but I didn't watch it fully, so I don't know the context, and the material of the whole thing.

But there are Christians, I mean I was told that, you know, 50 of the Anglican Church, I'm talking about the hierarchy, who actually reject, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So let me deal with this point, on the crucifixion.

Now, when we are dealing with the crucifixion, I would like to bring in, the sign of Jonah, and in the sign of Jonah, reference to it is, the gospel according to St. Matthew, chapter 12, and we will read from verse 38.

So the scribes and the Pharisees, they come to Jesus Christ, and they ask, Master, we seek a sign of thee. So in other words, they are telling him, we want some kind of proof, that you are, who you claim to be, some kind of mandate from God.

If you got, a certificate from God, we would like to see it. If you got some kind of mandate, we want to see it. But they are asking for a sign. They want a miracle. They want Jesus to perform a miracle, to prove, that he is the Messiah.

That he is a man of God. Now, look at the response, that Jesus Christ give, and we need to ask ourselves, Jesus Christ was their benefactor. For example, he healed blind Bartimaeus, at the gates of the temple.

He healed the woman with issues. And, he fed 4 ,000 people, with a few pieces of bread and fish. In fact, he did that twice. Once it was 4 ,000, once it was 5 ,000, as recorded in the Bible. These are miracles of Jesus Christ.

According to the gospel, according to Saint John, he even turned water into wine. Water into wine. So amongst all these miracles, he even raised Lazarus, according to the Bible. So I am saying, that with all these miracles, that he has performed, he did not tell the scribes, and the Pharisees, that you know, blind Bartimaeus, I gave him life.

You know, the lady with issues, for seven years, I healed her. You know, 4 ,000 people on Mount Olive, I fed them. No, he didn't use any of these miracles. He simply told them, an evil and adulterous generation, seekers after a sign, there shall be no sign given to it, except the sign of the prophet Jonah, except the sign of Jonah.

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Let me say that again, in the heart of the earth, not in a tomb.

There is a difference. You see, a greater miracle would be, I'd say, if you put somebody in the tomb and you roll the stone away and the tomb is empty, I want to know what is miraculous about that. But if you put somebody six feet underground and you come back and you find that everything is out and nobody is there, I want to know what miracle is that.

But if the tomb is sealed and if the grave is still covered with sand and standing next to the grave or standing next to the tomb while it is sealed and Jesus Christ is standing there, now I will tell you that that is a miracle.

And the reason why the stone was rolled away is because he was physically yet to walk out. This is the only logical explanation. If it was a spirit, there is no need for the stone to be moved out. But of course, the counter argument is that and I don't think Dr. James White will say that, is because they moved the stone so Peter and Mary could go in and witness it.

I say witnessing an empty tomb and witnessing Jesus outside while the stone, I would want to know which is the greater miracle. Anyway, coming back to the sign of Jonah. Now, why would Jesus Christ choose to perform the sign of Jonah as his mandate, as his proof that he is the Messiah?

An adulterous and evil generation seeketh after a sign. There shall be no sign given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

That's the only sign he's giving. Now, we ask our Christian friends and I'm going to ask Dr. James White tonight, I would like to know did Jesus Christ fulfill that sign? Did he fulfill that miracle? Every Christian I meet tells me, yes, they fulfilled it.

I say, show me how? Now, in order for us to understand the sign of Jonah, we have to go to the book of Jonah. And I don't know whether this is true, but I saw this on the internet a couple of times. Although Jonah is referred to a minor prophet in Christianity, somebody referred to him as a one-page prophet.

One-page prophet, which means that if you go in the Bible and you look at the book of Jonah, it's simply one page. One page, and halfway on this page, and that is the book of Jonah. So he was referred to as a one-page prophet, but in Christendom, he's referred to as a minor prophet.

Now, why will the Messiah, who is central and pivotal to Christianity, that such a person would choose the miracle of a minor prophet? I mean, there were many other prophets. Look at David. David was king.

We had Solomon. Solomon was king. Moses. Moses was king. But why go and choose a prophet? Not that he didn't have a job to do. Yes, he had a job to do, but, I mean, just a minor prophet, and you're choosing that sign?

Now, in order for us to understand what Jesus Christ was saying, we need to look at the sign of Jonah. And I'm not going to go into detail because I have limited time, but just to give you a summary of what Jonah was all about is that God Almighty commissioned Jonah to go to the city of Nineveh and ask the people to repent in sackcloth and ash.

But Jonah, thinking that he's going to a city of about 100 ,000 people, and these people would not listen to me, so, acting presumptuously, he goes to Joppa, takes a ship that he's going to Tarshish, and he's running away from the command of God.

So, at sea, there was a storm, and according to superstitious belief, they believed that, listen, if somebody's running away from his master, God would send down some kind of calamity, and because we are at sea, there is a storm.

So, they take him and they throw him overboard. They take him and they throw him overboard. Now, when they threw him overboard, was he dead or was he alive? Jonah, when they threw him overboard, was he dead or was he alive?

Please help me out here. He was alive. And in the storm, raging sea, you expect the man to drown, but he doesn't drown. Instead, a fish swallows him up. In the belly of the fish, heat, suffocation, lack of oxygen, digestive juices, whatever they may be, you expect a man to die, but he doesn't die because according to the Bible, he prayed to God Almighty, and I assure you, dead men don't pray.

So, in the belly of the fish, he was alive. And this fish goes to shore and vomits him out. Was he dead or was he alive? He had to be alive because he went to the city of Nineveh and he gave the message of God and the people of Nineveh repented and the city of Nineveh was saved.

Simply because when they threw him overboard, he was alive. When he was in the belly of the fish, he was alive. And when he went to the city of Nineveh, he was still alive. How was Jesus Christ when they put him onto the cross?

Every Christian will tell you alive. How was Jesus Christ when they brought him down from the cross and put him in the tomb? Every Christian will tell you he was dead. The sign of Jonah. For as Jonah was, so shall the Son of Man be.

How was Jonah in the belly of the fish? He was alive. How was Jesus in the tomb? You say he was dead. Is that like Jonah or is that unlike Jonah? Listen, this is the only prophecy he's giving. And the reason why he's giving that is because he knew that these Jews, the scribes and the Pharisees, they knew the sign of Jonah.

Jonah was alive, Jonah was alive, Jonah was alive. Jesus was alive and then he's dead. Very unlike Jonah. So, if you believe that the prophecy is true and he fulfilled it, then you have to believe that he didn't die.

But if you believe that he died, then you are rejecting that prophecy in the Bible. And if you're rejecting that prophecy in the Bible, then you are rejecting Jesus. Again, it's heads I win, tails you lose.

Now, some Christians emphasize on the fact that it is not how he was, but rather the time frame, the time frame. Now, I don't believe that the issue here is the time frame. But if I have time, I have basically 10 minutes left, but if I have time, I might as well explain this to you, is that in the United States of America, some years back, all right, I, thank you.

Some years back in the United States of America, it was the Plain Truth Movement that had started this. And in order to fulfill the prophecy, they started researching and of course, most Christians don't agree with them, but you get Christians who believe in this.

And it states that Jesus Christ was not crucified on a Friday, but he was crucified on a Wednesday. So if you count from Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night, early Sunday morning, Jesus Christ was not in the tomb.

They had the three days and three nights because they say, Jesus Christ said, for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

So I say, okay, let us look at the calculation. Friday night, they brought him up from the cross. Friday night, he's supposed to be in the tomb. Saturday day, he's supposed to be in the tomb. And I'm using the word suppose because he could have came out Friday night or Saturday.

So Friday night, he's supposed to be in the tomb. Saturday day, he's supposed to be in the tomb. Saturday night, he's supposed to be in the tomb. But early Sunday morning when Mary Magdalene goes to the tomb the stone is moved out and Jesus is not there.

So I want to know even if you look at the time factor How many days and how many nights because you are telling me three days and three nights, but you have two nights and one day. So even on that basis that prophecy is not fulfilled but however a doctor Faye from the plaintiff movement started this concept and.

And it has gained some momentum in the United States of America and a little bit in Europe nothing in South Africa is yet I don't think they've exported it to South Africa as yet, but I received news of it is that they believe In a good Wednesday, not a good Friday.

And if you calculate like that now, there's a lot but I just want to read this out quickly. The difficulty is connected with though with these three three have arisen number one. But I'm not having noted these fixed points from the two from the facts of Gentiles not having been conversant with the law concerning the three great feats of the Lord and From not having reckoned the days as commencing some six hours before our own and running from sunset to sunset instead from midnight to midnight and it goes on to say that the first of each of these three feasts the Passover the Pentecost and the tabernacle was.

Was the convocation that is a Sabbath on which no servile work was to be done and they referred us to Leviticus chapter 23 verse 7 to 24. That Sabbath and the high Sabbath of John 1931. Was the holy convocation the first day the feast which quite overshadowed the ordinary weekly Sabbath.

This is the argument they use. It was called by the Jews young toe. And this is the greeting on that day through our jewelry down to the present time the great Sabbath having been mistaken from the earliest times for.

The weekly Sabbath has led to all the confusion so in other words these people are saying that the Christians who have now work on the weekly Sabbath and that has created all the confusion. With regard to crucifixion we need to define what crucifixion is.

You see and I've checked the dictionary and crucifixion means by impaling. By impaling on a cross either by tying or nailing to a cross. But that is to put to death. By impaling on the cross either by nailing or tying the person has to die on the cross for you to say that he is crucified.

Now annually what happens in the Philippines? We get more than 500 people. In order to follow the ritual of Jesus Christ in commemoration of Jesus Christ. Some of them do it because of the vows that they have taken are there.

Asking God for help and some of them thanking God for the benefits that they have received or for the favors that they have received. They actually get themselves crucified. And it's very easy for you to check this out.

Just go Google Crucifixion in the Philippines and you will get it. Ruben and age 53 years old has been crucified 27 times. He's still living. Ramiz Lazaro a dishwasher. Also been crucified. Alex Larangan 59 had himself crucified every year for the past 12 years, and I don't want to go on with this.

So when people go up to the cross and they come down alive. Do you have a word for it? Shia Ahmad did that said That when a person goes up to the cross and he dies it is a crucifixion. Xion, but if a person goes up to the cross and he comes down alive, then he's been crucified.

Ficted f i c t e d all these people in the philippines are not crucified. They have been crucified Jesus christ if they had put him onto the cross. He was not crucified. He was crucified because when he came down he was still alive.

He was physical. He appeared to his disciples in the upper room physical. He had told them that I am physical and not a spirit. And even the prophecy the sign of jonah. Now, the question is that why would?

He choose the sign of jonah. Many signs and if he could have said the people. Listen for as moses split the red sea. So shall the son of man split the mediterranean sea. It's a greater miracle. But no the sign of jonah why is because he was telling the jews that listen.

Whatever happened to jonah the same thing is going to happen to me. And I would just like to read a short note on the book that i've written why the sign of jonah. This is what jesus Was telling the jews.

That jonah received providence. The sign of jonah is basically related to providence. God's help god's care. This is what it means. This is what jesus was telling the jews that jonah received providence.

And he too will also receive providence. Jesus was telling them you can do your worst. But in the end I will survive just like jonah. That is why he chose the sign of jonah because that fish saved jonah and I must say tonight.

And i'm sorry to say this but i'm glad that i'm saying this. That yes, jesus christ was saved but your misinterpretation of the cross the cross was used to save him not to kill him. Why? It's his word against yours.

It's his word against the christians. It's his word against. Dr. James white. That he chose the sign of jonah for a specific reason. It's simple. Jonah was saved. He went to nineveh. He delivered the message Jesus christ was saved.

He did not die on that cross if he was on the cross. Now I have just two to three minutes left. And I just want to recap very quickly. Remember the beginning. What paul said? If christ will not raise our preaching is in vain our faith is in vain.

And I have given you i've learned enough evidence to show cause that jesus christ Did not die. He was not a spirit. Which means he was not resurrected if he was not resurrected. He did not die. So all that paul says.

And i'm going according to paul. That everything that christianity stands for is fiction. With regard to sign of jonah, he specifically chose the sign of jonah. Because the jews knew that jonah was saved and that is why he told them for as jonah was.

So shall I be. Jonah was saved by the fish. He was also saved. God took care of that because remember the jews he was hanging on the cross and they say. You said you could save yourself. Let's see how you do it.

And if you look at the prophets that came it came in many way. There was an earthquake. There was darkness of the sun even so much. So I still ask these the christians these questions and if dr white can help me out here tonight when the graves open up and the bodies from the graves.

Came out of the graves and started walking to jerusalem. Where are those bodies today did they go back into the grave? What were they resurrected bodies? So all these things came to save jesus christ not to ensure that he died on the cross.

Ladies and gentlemen, remember what paul said ladies and gentlemen. Remember what jesus christ said. If christ be not raised from the dead our preaching is vain and your faith is in vain. Jesus christ said the only sign I give you is a sign of jonah.

Jonah was alive. We expect jesus to be alive. So I think i've led enough evidence to show cause that jesus christ was not resurrected and never died on the cross.

Thank you very much, mr. Ayub karim for that eloquent presentation. Ladies and gentlemen Now I would like to introduce the second speaker Dr. James white. The great white as I said is a dd meaning a doctor of divinity.