November 30, 2023 Show with Dr. Joseph C. Morecraft III on “The Importance of Nouthetic Counseling”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson,

19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports

legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning

issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener,

with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity

living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday

on this 30th day of November,

2023, and today is a

bittersweet day because the sweet aspect of it is we

are going to have on the program today one of my dearest

friends and favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, who has become

extremely popular by many people in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience,

according to the correspondence I receive from my listeners informing me how much

they love this brother and hearing him on the show.

His name is Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, and he is the pastor of

Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, and he's also the author

of an eight -volume commentary on the Westminster Larger Catechism titled

Authentic Christianity.

We are going to be addressing a very important theme, the importance of new thetic counseling

using the inerrant Bible as the blueprint for all we do.

Today, the bitter part, the sad part, is that we just

learned this week that biblical counselor Lou Priolo

has passed and has entered into eternity with Christ Jesus, our

sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King.

Obviously, that was no bitter news to Lou Priolo

when he passed into the eternal presence of Christ, but those who

knew him and loved him on this earth are going through a period of mourning, and

one such person is my guest, Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft, who was a dear friend of Lou Priolo,

and today we are not only going to be discussing the importance of new thetic counseling, but we're also going to be

paying tribute in loving memory of Lou Priolo.

And just to give you a little bit of a background of Lou Priolo, he

was a graduate of Calvary Bible College and Liberty University, as well as holding a

doctorate of divinity from Calvary University, and he was a full -time biblical

counselor starting in 1985 and was the author of several books, including The Heart of

Anger, which I actually, when I worked part -time for Calvary Press Publishing, who

originally published that book, I had the privilege of having many

conversations over the phone with Lou Priolo, but he also authored

The Complete Husband, Teach Them Diligently, Pleasing People, and Resolving Conflict, and he was the

editor of the Resources for Biblical Living, and

this was a series of booklets published by PNR Publishing,

and he was a member of the International Association of Biblical Counselors, a fellow in the Association

of Certified Biblical Counselors, and was director of biblical counseling at Christ

Covenant Buckhead in Atlanta, Georgia, and he, as I mentioned,

was already was the founder, I should say, of Competent to Counsel

International, and he is survived by his wife Kim,

who had been married to Lou since 1987, and also their two grown

daughters, Sophia and Gabriella, but it is my honor and privilege to welcome you

back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to address an important subject and to pay tribute to a

wonderful brother in Christ, now in heaven, in paradise with Christ,

my dear friend Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III.

It's a privilege and enjoyment to be on your program, Chris.

And let me right away give our listeners our email address if you have questions for Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft

III.

It is, send your emails to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail

.com, and as always, give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you

live outside of the USA.

Well, first of all, before we get into the primary themes of our show today, if you

could, once again, let our listeners know about Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia.

Church is a small congregation.

In Cumming, Georgia, and it is a member of the Reformed Presbyterian Church,

Hanover Presbytery.

We are devoted to the inerrancy and sufficiency of Scripture.

We're devoted to the original Westminster Confession of Faith and Catechisms, and we are devoted

to the Great Commission.

We, our people, come from all over the place, all kinds of backgrounds, all kinds of races,

and God has woven them into one, and they come to our church because they know

what they're going to get.

They want to hear the Reformed faith and the Word of God, all of it, nothing but it.

So it is a delight being the pastor of this church.

Yes, and it is an honor and privilege.

For me to be blessed by the

generosity of this fine church for quite a while now, and to air advertisements

for this wonderful congregation on a daily basis, and I

hope to do so for years to come.

And this is a church that I highly

recommend everyone listening to this program who lives

in the Cumming, Georgia area, or who

is traveling through on vacation perhaps, or perhaps you have family, friends, and loved

ones living in that area.

I strongly urge you to contact them, to pay a visit to this congregation, worship with them, and

also investigate more of the details that they offer on their website,

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, heritagepresbyterianchurch

.com, and hopefully we'll be remembering to repeat that information

before the program is over.

Well, I think perhaps we should start off with a bit more of a

tribute and loving memory of Lou Priolo.

Perhaps tell our listeners how you came to know Lou, and

come to develop a wonderful friendship with him, and why you.

Wanted to dedicate this program today to him.

First met Lou Priolo 40 -some years ago.

He and a couple of other people were members of a

Southern Baptist church in a community outside,

and they came into the understanding of the Five Points Calvinism.

One way or another, they knew me, so they would come and

teach a Bible study that would go into all the

aspects.

I've met Lou Priolo since then.

I've had him at my church.

He's a wonderful, was a wonderful speaker.

His books are very biblical, very readable, and J.

Adams was the most important teacher of counseling in the

20th and 21st century.

Then when he died, that position went to Lou

Priolo.

In my opinion, he was the most important counselor and teacher of biblical counseling in

the United States.

I think somebody told me this week that he counseled some 40 ,000 hours.

Wow, and people have already been asking me

after hearing about his death through the promotion

of today's program in social media how

Brother Lou died.

From what I understand from you, the only thing you know about that is that it was a rare and mysterious

blood disease, correct?

Well, we found out since it was sepsis, and it was blood poisoning.

We don't know how he got the blood poisoning.

Was he in the hospital?

That's what God used to take him to heaven.

Wow.

Was he in the hospital before he had the sepsis?

I do not know.

Okay.

Yes, my 76 -year -old brother, Andy, who's in a nursing home,

recently survived sepsis, and every

nurse that I spoke with or woman who had experiencing in nursing

in a nursing home told me that they never witnessed a patient

who developed sepsis and lived.

Thanks be to God, my brother Andy survived his bout with sepsis.

I don't even know for certain, even though he's been told, if he realizes the magnitude of

that and how seriously life -threatening his situation was.

But I'm hoping that the Lord uses this to bring him, my brother, to himself

and that he gives evidence of true saving faith in Christ.

And I appreciate all of my listeners praying for that.

And I also want to thank all my listeners, again, who were praying for my brother's healing

and deliverance from this deadly condition he was in.

And I'll never be able to adequately thank my listeners for lifting up my

brother to the Lord's throne of grace.

But that is a good place to segue into

what we are discussing today in regard to the importance of euthetic counseling.

And if you could define that, because to many people that might be a whole new word to

them.

It might not be in their current dictionary in their brain.

So why don't you let our listeners know what exactly is euthetic counseling?

Euthetic is an English word that comes from a Greek word meaning admonish

or exhort.

And I want to read two verses from the 15th chapter of Romans where that word

in the Greek occurs.

And that's Romans 15 verses 13 and 14 that give you

the basic qualifications for somebody that's going to counsel.

And then it tells you what kind of counseling.

Here's what it says.

Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing that you may

abound in hope by the power and concerning you, my brethren.

I myself also am convinced that you yourselves are

full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and able all

euthetically counsel one another.

In the new American standard version, it says admonish, but it could also mean to counsel.

And Jay Adams was the one of the pioneers of this over 50 years ago.

He was a friend of mine, a great guy.

And he was tired of people calling

their their counseling Christian counseling just

because they use some Christian words and baptize pagan psychiatry and

psychology with baptized words, with Christian words.

But the content was simply a mixture of pagan psychologists.

So much of what goes under the head of Christian counseling today is

not.

It's just a baptized paganism.

It's just using biblical terms, but

defining them with humanistic meaning.

And so the only kind of counselor,

if you need counseling or you know somebody that needs counseling, the only kind of counselor

that you want to go to or send anybody to is a new

30 counselor.

Everything else is counter and synthetic.

That is a mixture of Christianity and of humanism.

Tried to be consistently and exclusively Christian

and biblical in every aspect of his psychology and approach to counseling.

His whole counseling technique is based

on the inerrancy and sufficiency of Scripture that the Bible,

ever the Bible asserts to be true on any subject is true.

And it's divinely authoritative in everything about which it speaks.

And in principle, it speaks about everything.

So that basic presupposition undergirded, undergirds

every aspect of new 30 counseling.

You don't need to go to anybody else.

Any other famous psychologist counselor to get

your information, counseling one another.

I know that I want you to notice something else about this verse.

Paul says, and concerning you, my brethren, and he's talking to the church, the believers in

Rome, and concerning you, my brethren, I myself also am convinced

that you yourselves are competent to counsel.

So the people, all Christians are competent to counsel if they have these

distinct characteristics.

Every preacher ought to be able to counsel.

Every Christian ought to be able to counsel.

And we are competent to counsel if we have these three basic

characteristics.

Number one in verse 13, now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in

believing that you may abound in hope by the power of the

Spirit.

So somebody who's competent to counsel is somebody who's going to be

abound in the hope.

In the Bible means confident assurance that God will be faithful to

every promise that he's made in Holy Scripture.

That when we look at life, we don't look at it in pessimism.

We don't try to understand life and determine our attitude to it by what we see around us.

We don't walk by sight.

We walk by faith.

We know that God will be faithful to everything he has said in the Scripture.

And without that abundance of hope, we're not going to be effective counselors.

I had a young man come to my church one time, and this is about the only time, and he came from a

background where they asked him one time why he came to our church.

And he said, because you're so hopeful, because you have so much hope

for the transformation of people's lives, the transformation of society.

So people are looking for that hope.

People that come for counseling are people who are relatively hopeless to one degree or another.

And one of the first things I do when I counsel somebody is I

read to them that verse in Corinthians

that says

God is faithful to give answers and solutions to

every situation we have in life.

That there's no situation in life that will be too heavy

trusting in the living God and walking by his word.

That the problems that people face, thousands of people face the same

problems, millions face the same problems.

And there are problems that God is faithful to help

us.

We are getting our solutions from the

word of God.

And just reading that verse, and that was not, just

reading that verse or pointing to that verse in 1 Corinthians 10 gives hope

before you even start talking about their problems.

Because they've been told by psychiatrists there's no such thing as solutions.

Psychiatrists, psychologists, cure is not in their

vocabulary.

They don't expect any cure to the various psychological problems people face today.

I had a man, 70 -some -year -old man, his wife called me on the

phone, illustrations from my own life.

This woman called me and said that her husband who was 70 -something, he worked hard for 40

years as an executive in a big business, and he'd been retired for four

years, and he won't get out of bed.

He won't do anything.

He just has no motive for living, stays in bed.

And they had spent a couple hundred thousand dollars on psychologists and counselors.

And so they said, Mr. Moorecraft, you're just a last -ditch hope.

I said, well, you can't beat my price.

I don't charge.

And so they, I went to see this man,

very intelligent man.

And I asked him, do you have any physical maladies?

And he said, no.

I said, what do you feel guilty about the most?

And he started crying.

And he said, well, I used to write my daughter letters every month.

I had a good hand.

I would write good letters, but I have not written her letter now in

months and months and months.

So I got a piece of paper and a pencil and I handed it to him.

And I said, what would you write to your daughter?

He told her, he told me, he said, I would

ask forgiveness for not writing her and not being a good father.

I said, I want you to write that letter right now.

He said, I can't.

I said, what do you mean you can't?

You got a broken arm or something?

What do you mean you can't?

I want you to write that letter.

And here's a pencil.

Here's a paper.

So he sat there looking at that paper for a little while, and then he started writing

this letter to his daughter.

And the whole time he was saying over and over again, my doctor said, I couldn't do this.

My doctor said, I couldn't do this.

Wow.

So, so modern counseling doesn't offer much hope.

But, and so if you're going to be an effective counselor, you've got to abound in hope.

All right, what's the second trait?

Verse 14 of chapter 15.

And concerning you, my brethren, I myself also am convinced that you yourselves are full of

goodness.

That is, you've got to be a dedicated Christian.

You got to have more than knowledge.

You got to be applying that knowledge to your life and seeking to live a godly and a holy life according to God's

law, by the power of the spirit of God.

That you're not going to be an effective Christian counselor if you're a hypocrite, if your

theology is all in your head and none of it's in your heart or your life.

So we're not going to be effective counselors if we cannot point to

people, here's what this has done for me.

Here's how this has changed my life and my family life.

We've got to be full of goodness.

And then the third trait, it's also in verse 14.

We're not only to abound in hope and to be full of goodness, but we are to be

filled.

That is, we must be a

real disciple.

And the meaning of the word disciple is learner.

We must always be learning the word of God, increasing our knowledge of that word

on everything.

It says to be filled with all knowledge, just not on those areas that

satisfy our curiosity or that we have a particular interest in.

But we are to constantly increase and deepen and broaden

our understanding of the word of God on every area of life, because it does apply to every area of life.

And so if we're not constantly studying the scriptures and trying to understand it in

its breadth and depth, both Old and New Testament,

we're not going to have anything to counsel with.

The Shorter Catechism and the Larger Catechism both say that the will of

God is to be found in both the

Old Testament and the New Testament.

If all we read is the New Testament, that's better than nothing.

But we're going to get a perverted view of the gospel if all we read is the New Testament.

So we must read and study the Old Testament and the New Testament.

We must read and study the New Testament and constantly be filling our minds and

our hearts with all of biblical knowledge.

And then when we abound in hope, when we're full of goodness, when we're filled with

hope, we are competent to counsel.

And J. Adams wrote a paperback book that I highly recommend,

explaining the difference between biblical counseling and all other forms

of counseling.

It's called Competent to Counsel.

It's a paperback.

It's very readable.

I don't think it has one footnote in the whole book.

And a couple of 200 or so pages long.

And if you really want to know what the distinctives are of euthetic counseling, of biblical

counseling, you must read that book, Competent to Counsel.

The second book, and that's by J. Adams, the second book by J. Adams

that everybody should have and read and reread and go back to time and again,

is called The Christian Counselor's Manual.

And it goes through

that we face in the modern world, family problems, personal problems, racial

problems, all kinds of problems.

And he shows us how to diagnose those problems in a way

differently than the world does, and how to work toward a solution to those problems.

One of the great things about J. Adams' approach is that he believed that most

of the diagnoses of mental illness were not mental illness at all,

but as a result of sin in our life, a failure to look at life God's way, or a failure to

respond.

And so it is a good book to show you why he said, and this is one of

the places where he's criticized the most, where he said that most cases of mental illness are not

mental illness.

They're caused by sin.

I'll give you one extreme example.

There was a young woman

in a fetal position.

She would not talk.

She would not relate in any way.

She was in her 20s, and she would just sit on the floor in a fetal position,

to the point that all counselors had given up on her and put her in a mental institution.

One of the members of the family didn't want to give up on her, so he called J. Adams.

And he said, would you come and visit my daughter or cousin or whoever she was?

So J. Adams goes into a room in the mental institution

and asks the nurses to see her physical medical chart.

He wanted, first of all, to see if there was anything physically, diagnosably wrong

about her, and she was in good health.

She wasn't taking medicine or anything.

There wasn't physically anything wrong with her.

So he asked the nurse to go get two chairs and put in the room.

And he sits in one room, the one chair, and he puts the other chair in front of him,

and he says to the young woman, Susie, get up off of the

floor and quit acting like a baby and sit in this chair like an adult.

She gets up off the floor and goes sit in the chair.

Because J. Adams was the first to consider her

a responsible, accountable person, not somebody that's mentally

ill, but somebody that is a maiden image of God and that is

accountable, fully accountable to God for all of her actions.

In fact, I want to follow up on that woman when we return from our first commercial break.

That's all I know.

We'll have to go to something else.

Okay.

Okay.

And we already have some listeners waiting to have their questions asked and answered by you.

But if anybody else would like to join us, please get in line by submitting a question to chrisarnsen at gmail

.com.

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name and country of residence.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And I could readily understand this subject today since it involves counseling.

I could readily understand that this subject may evoke questions that are intensely

personal and private.

So we will definitely grant your request to remain anonymous.

But please, if it's a general question, give us your first name, city and state and country of residence.

We'll be right back.

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We are now back with Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, and we are talking about the importance of euthetic

or biblical counseling.

And if you have a question, send it to chrisarnzen at gmail .com and give us your first name at least, city and state and

country of residence.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Before I go to any listener questions, Joe, I have heard from

euthetic counselors that when people are searching

for a Christian counselor, the one thing that they should not do

is arrange a meeting with someone who

only specifically uses the phrase Christian counselor as the way

to identify themselves.

That may sound strange to our listeners, but the term Christian

counselor is a huge umbrella.

And as you've already mentioned, there is a lot of heresy under that umbrella very frequently, and that you

must look for biblical counselors or specifically euthetic counselors.

Am I correct in stating that?

I would agree with that because many, even some of the famous names

for today that evangelical counselors are more humanistic than they are Christian.

So you want to ask for euthetic counselors.

Do you practice euthetic counseling?

And that will limit it, but they're around.

And even though some of the disciples of J. Adams

compromised on some of his basic biblical principles

because they were too strong or demanding

upon people.

But you want to ask, do you practice euthetic counseling, or what do you

think of J. Adams?

That's a good way to do it.

Okay.

And by the way, folks, euthetic is spelled N -O -U -T -H -E -T -I -C.

Yes, sir.

I didn't finish telling you about the guy, but I had to write a letter.

Okay.

Yeah, go ahead.

He wasn't mentally ill, and he wasn't physically sick.

So what did I finally tell him?

He worked hard for 40 years, and he'd been retired for about five years and had

done nothing.

I said, sir, let me give you a verse.

If a man doesn't work, neither should he eat.

That if a person works hard and then stops any kind of work

whatsoever, he'll be dead in just two or three, four years.

You need to go to work.

You need to do something, get out of the bed, whether you feel like it or not, and go to work.

Because that was his basic problem.

Worked hard all his life and then quit working.

What do you expect in a person's life other than losing

control of himself?

So the Bible does work.

I guarantee you it works.

I have been using euthetic counseling

at least 50 years, and

that it does work.

Approaches to counseling do not work.

They don't expect them to work because they want their $100 a half

hour for their counseling.

Find out, first of all, if your preacher is a counselor.

In some states, biblical counseling is so threatening.

Some states have made it illegal for preachers.

The preachers call themselves family counselors.

You mean just to use the title?

Yeah, you can't use the title.

Tell your preacher not to be intimidated by these people.

That he's the only counselor who can really counsel families.

Some states have outlawed conversion therapy for homosexuals.

They've made it against the law to tell a homosexual that he can change

his homosexuality and not be homosexual anymore.

And, of course, that's the way we approach homosexuals, is that it's not DNA, it's not

genetic, it's not something natural at all.

It is the result of a defiant decision, and Paul says, no

homosexual can enter the kingdom of heaven, but such were some of you.

Amen.

And so, in some states, it's illegal to say that.

Wow.

But tell your preacher not to be intimidated by these people.

Now, there have been Christians and churches and

individuals, pastors and so on, who have

trivialized the magnitude of the concept of

repentance.

And, you know, there's a slogan that had become famous, I'm not even sure who coined it, but, pray the

gay away, as if, I mean, obviously, the Lord transforms

people through prayer, but to put it in such a way, it almost sounds like a magical spell,

where, you know, if you pray, you're automatically going to be transformed

out of being a homosexual or a practitioner of it.

And, of course, there are many evangelicals who treat salvation itself that way.

They go forward and recite a prayer, and you will be saved, as if salvation is under the

control of an individual.

How do you respond to that?

I mean, and also, I'm assuming that you would agree that not

everything that would call itself conversion therapy, when it comes to

homosexuality,.

Is good, safe, healthy, or biblical.

Biblical, alone for salvation,

and the turning from sin to a renewed obedience to God's law.

So, repentance is not optional.

It is something that's absolutely required if we're going to be saved.

I was, back when I was in college and seminary, I didn't have a car, because I

couldn't afford one.

So, whenever I went anywhere to preach, I would hitchhike.

And since I was bigger than anybody to pick me up, I wasn't worried about anybody beating me up.

So, I got picked up by this young guy, and I was sitting there in the front seat, and I noticed

between us, there was a copy of Campus Crusades for Spiritual Laws.

So, I hadn't told him I was a Christian yet.

I thought I'd give him an opportunity to practice on me.

And so, I didn't tell him I was a Christian.

I didn't just say anything.

I said, what's that little pamphlet on the seat between us?

Well, he took that as a great opportunity to witness.

And so, he went through every law for Spiritual Laws.

And God loves you.

Jesus died for you.

Have Jesus in your heart, etc.

And so, after he got through, I looked at him and I

said, you know, something you didn't say that I've heard

people say.

And I've heard people talk about repentance.

Why didn't you say anything about repentance?

He said, oh, we don't get to talk about repentance until we get people

saved.

To him, Jesus said, I tell you, nay, but except you repent, you shall all likewise

perish.

I preached the other day a sermon in which I said, conversion today is so easy.

You make a cool -elected intellectual decision,

and it is so easy today.

But repentance is not easy.

And believing in Jesus is not easy.

And living the Christian life is not easy.

So, when you, if you go to a church and everything is so easy and so cool and

so intellectual, I would go to another church.

Because repentance includes changing from whatever you believe and whatever kind of life you

live before you are a Christian to an entirely different kind of life demanded by the law

of God, empowered by the Holy Spirit to live.

And without repentance, faith isn't really faith.

The first great mark and proof of faith in Christ is you want to serve him and

bow down to him as your Lord and turn from the sins in your life that

are displeasing to him.

Repentance plays a very important part in counseling.

When we counsel people, many of them, the reason that they're having the problems that

they're having is usually because of some sin in their life,

because some act of disobedience, because some approach to life, some

way of looking at life that's contrary to the word of God, some way of

living life that's contrary to the word of God.

And repentance is absolutely necessary.

In fact, there are three primary characteristics.

And by the way, could you go through those three primary characteristics when we return from the midway break?

Sure.

And folks, just keep in mind that you have to be patient with us because the midway

break is a little longer than the other breaks, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City,

Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because they are required by the FCC to

localize this program geographically to Lake City, Florida,

and they do so with their own public service announcements and other things while we simultaneously air our

globally heard commercials.

So please use this time wisely, not only write down questions and submit them

to chrisarnsen at gmail .com or joemorecraft about our discussion today

on the importance of New Theta Counseling, but also please write down as much of the

contact information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more

frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers, keeping in mind we absolutely

positively rely upon our advertisers to exist.

We need the finances that comes through our advertisers to remain on the air.

So please either purchase their products and use their services and visit their churches,

or when it's absolutely impossible for you to do any of those things for one reason or another, please

at the very least thank our listeners for sponsoring Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

That should go a long way to convince them that their money is not being spent in vain and that their money is

helping to bless the lives of thousands of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners.

So please at least thank our advertisers by using their contact information you hear in the commercials.

And again, send in your questions to joemorecraft, to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

We'll be right back.

Please do not go away.

Puritan Reformed is a Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church.

We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone.

Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image -bearing prophets, priests, and

kings.

We teach families to worship together as families.

Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of

God as the waters cover the sea.

We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt

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This is Pastor David Reis of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.

Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the

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I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology

at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use

the eight -volume commentary on Theology and Ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism titled

Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the larger catechism.

It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and

systematic theology.

Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking

for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that congregation.

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com,

westminstercommentary .com.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, that Dr. Joseph

Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you.

Or still at work, just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show

at any time, day or night.

Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many

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Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news.

Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio podcast right now.

And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com podcast and visit our website and the YouTube

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We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith, as

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Avenio, and thanks for listening.

Have you noticed the gap that exists between the Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small

group study?

So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study God's in those

smaller settings, well, let's be honest, it leaves a lot to be desired.

It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the Word of God and is

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Hi there, my name is Jordan Too, and I am the Executive Director of the Baptist Publishing House.

Our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound Bible study resources.

Our quarterly curriculum is titled The Baptist Expositor, and for good reason.

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May God bless you.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Dr. Joe Moorcraft, pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia,.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice.

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Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

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If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep.

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One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnzen is doing is

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Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society.

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On the air.

Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

Do you know what they all have in common?

They all require training, assessments, and certifications.

But do you know what requires no training at all?

Becoming a parent.

My name is A .M. Brewster.

I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have

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Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, taking a moment of your

day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the Iron Sharpen's Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time,

and knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer

and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpens Iron financially.

Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can click.

Support.

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Every day at thousands of community centers,.

High schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long

Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus.

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Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

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at 631 -385 -8333.

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Or visit liyfc .org.

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.org.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

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We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com, and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And a recommendation.

For a couple of books that you may wish to purchase from solid -ground -books .com

are by the aforementioned Dr. J. Adams, one of which is titled Be

Careful How You Listen, How to Get the Most Out of a Sermon, and the other is

The Big Umbrella and Other Essays and Addresses on Biblical Counseling, also by Dr. J.

Adams.

Please go to solid -ground -books .com today.

If you've never purchased from them before, please make today your very first purchase.

And even if you're a regular customer of solid -ground -books .com, please make your largest purchase

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The reason why this is especially urgent right now is because, as you may recall since I've been

mentioning it every day for a number of weeks now, solid -ground -books .com is

experiencing a book sales crisis, and they need your help.

Please go to solid -ground -books .com today and make a purchase.

Perhaps start doing your Christmas shopping there.

Start doing your Valentine's Day shopping there.

Start doing your shopping for any special occasion, and also to

bless yourself and replenish your library.

We depend on solid -ground -books .com to exist.

They are a primary, a premier, a vital advertiser in our show, and we hope that you

would bless them because they have blessed us by purchasing books through them.

But I must quickly remind you, you're not only going to be doing solid -ground -books

.com a favor by purchasing books from them, and you're not only going to be doing Iron Sharpens Iron Radio a favor by

keeping one of our most important advertisers happy, you're going to be doing yourself and anyone for whom you purchase

books from solid -ground -books .com an enormous favor of incalculable

value because they bring back into print precious priceless

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So they publish nothing but the finest in Reformed Christian literature, so don't

look at it, please, like you're just doing them or Iron Sharpens Iron Radio a favor by buying books from them.

Go to solid -ground -books .com frequently, purchase generously, always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen

of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Before I return to Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III and a continuation of our discussion on the importance of newthetic

counseling, I have some important announcements to make.

If you love this show, folks, if you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, if you love hearing guests

like Dr. Joe Moorcraft and the show and many others, well, please go to

ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

If you prefer a snail mail sending in a physical address, a physical check to a physical address from your post office,

there will also be a physical address that appears on your screen when you click support at ironsharpensironradio

.com, where you can mail your payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

If you want to advertise with us as Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia does,

whether it's your church, power church ministry, your business, your private practice, like a law firm or a medical firm, or

maybe it's just a special event that you want to promote, as long as it's compatible with what I believe, I would love to help

you launch an ad campaign quickly because we are just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in your donations.

So send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

And keep in mind, folks, I never want Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners to give your own church

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Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

I also want to remind our men in ministry leadership in the audience that the next Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio free pastor's luncheon will be held on Thursday, June

6, 2024 from 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Church of the Living

Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, featuring for the first time Dr. Joel Beakey,

who is a prolific author, historian, expert on the Puritans, and founder of Puritan

Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

You don't want to miss this.

Please register as quickly as possible, and it is free.

I would recommend that you put it on your calendar and register now, even though it's in 2024, because

calendars get quickly filled up.

So please set that date aside Thursday, June 6, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ

in Loisville, Pennsylvania.

That's where I am holding my next biannual free Iron Sharpens Iron Radio pastor's luncheon.

And last but not least, if you're not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally

solid church, like Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, well, I

have extensive lists of faithful churches spanning the globe, and I have helped many people in our audience all

over the world find churches, sometimes even within just a couple of minutes from where they live.

And that may be you, too, if you're without a church home.

So send me an email at chrisarnson at gmail .com—chrisarnson at gmail .com—and

put, I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you could send in a question to Dr. Joseph C. Moorcroft III, and we are discussing

the importance of New Thetic Counseling.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

Before the break, you were going to begin to list, I believe it was three

important elements of saving faith or repentant faith?

I can't remember exactly how you phrased it.

Yeah, the three distinctives of New.

Thetic Counseling.

Oh, okay.

I'll start with C.

The first is compassion.

A New Thetic Counselor is somebody who has Christlike compassion

for people who are going through troubled times.

He's got to be able to weep with those who weep, and to

rejoice with those who rejoice.

He cannot be cold.

He's got to be somebody who knows what real compassion is, and what real sympathy is for

sinners.

It's not an intellectual thing.

It's something that involves the compassion of the heart.

Second, confrontation.

New Thetic Counseling involves confrontation.

Now, confrontation is a word that

we use a lot, but it has connotations with it that I think

are unhealthy.

For instance, we say we are going to confront somebody, or we are going to

confront you, as if it's always a challenging,

direct.

I think what helps with confrontation is if you say it gently,

confrontation, because it's not a challenging thing.

It's not even a word of rebuke.

It is when you're helping somebody work through their sins so they can

turn from it, and renew their obedience to God, and strengthen their faith in Christ.

It is something that you do.

You have to confront them, and so New Thetic Counseling takes courage,

because it does take courage to confront somebody over his or her sin.

A husband, a wife, it takes courage, but you don't be mean about it.

But you do have to be honest and forthright, and understand that counseling

involves confrontation.

Point out what it is in their lives that's causing the problem.

And thirdly, it's change.

Compassion, confrontation, and change.

When we're having problems in our lives as individuals, as parents, as married

partners, or whatever it is, it is always because there's something about

our lives that God wants changed.

And so we must help people pinpoint what that is.

What are they doing wrong?

How are they thinking wrongly about something?

And then show them how to straighten out, and how not to get this problem again.

For instance, I do a lot of counseling on all kinds of things.

I try not to do counseling over the telephone, but sometimes I get

stuck in doing that.

But when it comes to, say, depression,

I've learned through 50 years that 90 of the cases of

depression are not clinical depression.

Now, there are some real depressions that require

medical treatment.

I don't want to downplay that.

Vitamin deficiency, medicine, poor blood

circulation.

There are actual physical doses,

depressions, that do require a doctor and do require

medical treatment.

But I also have learned that about 90 of those who are depressed

do not need medical treatment.

The last thing they need is medical treatment.

And so what I learned through the years, and by studying the scriptures,

and by applying the scriptures to people's lives, is that most people who are

depressed are depressed because they dwell on

thoughts that tend to depress.

They just spiral into a hole.

There's something happened in their lives, sickness, death, somebody sinned against them.

And they just dwell on that.

That's always coming up in their mind.

And so whenever that thought of a sin, an injury, a sickness,

a death comes into their mind, they drop their shoulders, and

they get depressed.

And then they stay depressed because they dwell on that thought over and

over and over.

Not in terms of what's a cure for this, what's the solution for this.

But they just dwell on that thought that tends to depress over and over,

spiraling downwards.

So the way you get over that kind of depression is

by disciplining yourself to quit dwelling on thoughts that tend to depress.

You can control your mind.

You can control your emotions.

And so you can keep from dwelling on certain thoughts.

It may take a lot of effort.

It will take discipline.

And you may have to work very hard getting thoughts out of your mind.

And you do that by dwelling on other things.

You dwell on good things, on how much your family loves you, on

biblical thoughts, and biblical truths, and biblical doctrines.

You let your mind be filled with what is true, and what is good, and what is wholesome.

And you fill your mind with those things.

And when you fill your mind with those things, then the peace of God that passes all understanding

guards your heart and your mind.

So depression is not a big monster that comes upon you

uncontrollably, and you can't do anything about it.

Depression is caused by thought mostly.

It's caused by thoughts that tend to depress.

And so the way you keep from getting depressed is don't allow those

thoughts to dominate your thinking.

When they come up in your mind, turn from them.

Even if you have to turn from the same thought 10 times, and fill your mind

with wholesome, beautiful, good, true things.

Reading the Bible.

If you have a $50 ,000 computer, but it's not plugged into the power, it's not going to do any

good whatsoever.

And that's the way it is with the Bible.

That you can have the Bible, and you can call yourself a Bible -believing Christian, but if you're not plugged into the power of that

Word, that power is not going to show itself in your life.

So you must be somebody who's reading the Scriptures, living in it, going to

churches where the Word of God is preached.

Where you have preachers that preach and teach the whole counsel of God, and not

just part of it.

Where they know how to expand it, and they know how to apply it to your life.

So sitting under sound preaching regularly, week after week after week,

and reading the Bible on your own, and having family worship on your own,

are all indispensable ways of causing that

depression not to dominate your life.

So depression, most of it, caused by

thoughts that tend to depress.

You can discipline your mind.

You can say no to them.

It takes the power of the Holy Spirit.

It takes daily dogged discipline.

It takes a life lived out in the Word of God.

A life dependent upon God for everything in your life.

I have at least one sermon on sermonaudio .com

to handle depression.

And if anybody's out there listening, I would recommend those sermons.

I am definitely going to listen to them myself.

Yeah.

How to handle.

Depression.

And, you know, you were talking about the fact that God has given us an ability

to control our thoughts.

I have found it very dominant in our culture for

quite a long time, that it

is—humanity has fed the lie that the sexual

urge is such a powerful element of the human life that

it's something that we cannot control, and therefore we should

expect single people to be having sex before marriage.

We should expect people to be seeking to

fulfill their sexual appetites, no matter what those may be.

They may be unnatural and damning, and of course all sexual

activity and even thought, as far as lust is concerned, outside of marriage, between one man and

one woman, is damning.

But this idea that, you know, we have to have sex education in

schools, and we have to teach kids how to use condoms, because it's laughably ridiculous

to expect that people will not have sex until

they're married.

And of course, that's another example of non -biblical counseling.

In the Bible, you are responsible for your thoughts.

If you have lustful thoughts for a woman in your heart, you've committed adultery.

The Bible says, keep your heart with all diligence, for out of it are the issues of life.

So why would the Bible say things like, guard your heart if you couldn't guard your heart?

That you have the power of the Holy Spirit in your life as a Christian, and you

can say no when you need to say no, and you can say it decisively, and you can

say yes when you need to say yes, and you say it decisively.

So I'm trying to think of another instance, but it'll come to me again, but

that shows we—I does not believe that

man is responsible for all of his actions.

It's his environment.

It's because his grandmother didn't raise him properly.

It's because of his genes or his chromosomes.

It's because of the dominant external influence on his life that we're not

responsible for anything.

We're just helpless victims to all of these influences of

society all around us.

So we cannot be blamed.

We must always blame other people.

But that's a myth, of course, and it's because we don't—we live in a world that

does not believe that man has made the image of God.

We live in a world that does not believe that man is accountable to obey the law of God and thought, word, and deed.

And we don't—we live in a world where it believes that the law of God is irrelevant.

For instance, people often talk about—to me, they come to counseling—I have this

uncontrollable anger that it just comes upon me, and I can't

control it.

And I'll say, there's no such thing as an uncontrollable anger.

There's uncontrolled anger, but there's not uncontrollable anger.

And I said, I'll give you a simple way of proving it.

I went to see this family near our church one time,

and they were having a big argument.

And I could hear them arguing when I came up to the door and knocked on the door.

So when I knocked on the door and opened it, they saw me.

They totally changed.

They said, well, Pastor Markraft, it's good to see you.

Come on in.

And they'd just been beating each other up verbally before they opened the door.

So don't think there's such a thing as an uncontrollable anger.

There's only an uncontrolled anger.

Or another thing is, people often come to me and say, how can I avoid

stressful situations in my life?

And I say, there's no such thing as a stressful situation.

There's no situation in your life that causes you stress.

Stress is something you do to yourself.

When you're not looking at life a certain way, you're not living life a certain way, you're not

trusting God for what you need to live life.

It's not a situation.

It's not your work.

You don't have a stressful work.

Your work's not stressful.

You put this stress on yourself.

You're responsible for this stress, not your work, because of a failure to live

or think in terms of the Word of God.

So that appears to be so harsh, so unloving.

That's why a lot of modern humanists do not like newthetic counseling, because

it makes a human being fully responsible for all of his actions.

And we have a listener, and those of you who have been listening to this program

long enough to remember my former co -host before he

relocated from Carlisle, Pennsylvania, where I am located, and is now

a resident of Fitchburg, Massachusetts.

But if you've been listening to this program at least since 2015, when I relaunched the

show after moving from New York to Pennsylvania, you will remember my

co -host Buzz Taylor.

Well, Buzz has a question for Dr. Moorcraft, and I must also add that Buzz

is an enormous admirer of Dr. Moorcraft and his writings and sermons,

and his late mother also was always thrilled to hear Dr. Moorcraft on

this program.

But Buzz in Fitchburg, Massachusetts, he says, yes, it's me.

He asks, what is your take on mental illness and chemical imbalances,

etc., as it relates.

To professional counseling?

Such a thing, obviously, is chemical imbalance.

That, first of all, let me say is a catch -all phrase.

When a doctor or a psychiatrist cannot figure out what's exactly wrong

with you, it must be chemical imbalance.

So, in my opinion, a lot of the diagnosis of chemical imbalance is not chemical imbalance,

though there is such a thing.

For instance, when you twist your ankle, I'm talking from years of basketball

experience.

If you twist your ankle badly, then you're going to have a sense of nausea as well,

and a twisted ankle causes chemical imbalance or jet

lag.

I do not handle jet lag very well, coming or going across the Atlantic.

But jet lag is a chemical imbalance.

So, it's not the end of the world when you have chemical imbalance.

There's a way of treating them,

vitamins.

So, the chemical imbalance is not the worst thing in the world.

It can be if it's physically caused by some particular

disease, something wrong with

your blood or something like that, and that should require medical treatment.

But chemical

imbalance is never in the Bible said

to be a

symptom.

Symptoms of chemical imbalance are not disobedient to the Ten Commandments.

Okay.

So, people use chemical imbalance to excuse all kinds of disobedience,

but disobedience to the law of God is not a symptom of

a chemical imbalance.

It's because you make it like, just like homosexuality is not

a sickness.

It is a defiant, deliberate person makes.

So, I'm glad he asked that question because I don't want to downplay doctors.

I don't want to downplay going to see doctors.

I don't want to downplay taking medicine when it's required.

But you've got to think about all these things Christianly, and you've got to start with the Bible first.

Is there anything in my life that's causing me to have these

schizophrenic tendencies of wanting to live two different kinds of lives?

Because I don't like the reality as I see it.

I want another kind of reality.

I don't like the reality that God has made.

I want to recreate reality in a way that satisfies

legitimate medical concerns and legitimate use for

doctors.

If we think we have something that's medically wrong with us, go to a godly doc

new petty counseling.

Yeah, you just said...

Go ahead, I'm sorry.

See if there's anything diagnosably wrong with you, physically diagnosably wrong with you, and

if there is, do what he says.

But our problems, nine out of ten, are not caused by sicknesses,

but are caused by sins in our lives.

Amen.

And you said something key there that may not be the easiest thing to do, finding an M .D.

who is a godly Christian who understands and believes in new...

How true is that?

And they have a medic, one of them, called Red Bergeron, has a Christian medical conference

once a year.

It has all kinds of people come, with big -name speakers like Martin Selbreedy and others.

Right, I've had the doctor on my show.

Yes, you have.

And he deals, they deal with all of the various medical

ethical issues.

That we have to deal with today.

Well, this all is connected to a listener question.

We have King in Patrick, South Carolina,

and he says, I'm so glad that you are breaking the stereotype of newthetic

counselors, who I have heard always try to

tell people to not seek medical help for the problems of depression or

mental issues.

I think this could be extremely dangerous, especially if these ministers or counselors are

telling everyone and anyone to stop taking the medication they have been on, etc.

I have known many, many newthetic counselors over 50

years.

I don't know any authentic newthetic counselor that tells

people never go to doctors, never take medicine.

I know people who claim to be newthetic counselors, but they don't really know what that is.

They're always on the fringe of every movement.

There's going to be these extreme fanatics that

causes everybody to look at newthetic counseling as if they were all these

extreme people.

But I have never met a newthetic counselor that's a genuine newthetic counselor

that has told people never go to doctors, never take medicine.

And this listener, King in Patrick, South Carolina, follows up.

The thing that's difficult in knowing when an individual should be on some kind of medication

is regaining trust in doctors and the medical community, especially

after we have been lied to by doctors over and over again in the

media during the COVID pandemic.

We have been told by doctors and scientists to wear masks when we know now that these

were useless.

We have been told by doctors and scientists to take the COVID vaccines, which may be

involved in the death of more people than we are aware of.

This is a harder task than perhaps it used to be to find a doctor you can.

Trust.

I couldn't agree with this man more, that there are doctors

that are owned by the state, that are slaves of the culture,

and we must be very careful.

I'll tell women, don't go to a gynecologist that believes in abortion.

And that means asking them.

That means you've got to be courageous.

And you ask them their opinion on things like this.

There are great doctors that you can

trust.

My son -in -law is a doctor.

My son -in -law is a nurse practitioner.

They both know New Teddy Counseling.

They're one of the leading vascular surgeons in Atlanta who operated in about eight

hospitals.

A very famous vascular surgeon practiced New Teddy Counseling.

So they're out there.

You've got to go to the trouble of finding.

Them.

My doctor, Dr. Joel Yeager, here in Pennsylvania,

is a courageous, godly, reformed Christian doctor who is publicly

on his website and in his practice when he would counsel patients.

He has always been publicly, openly, and vehemently opposed to masks

as a preventative for COVID and other viruses.

He has also been warning about the dangers of the vaccines for the coronavirus.

And I urge anybody who lives in the Pennsylvania area to look up

HeritageFamilyHealth .org.

HeritageFamilyHealth .org.

We have to go to our final commercial break right now.

And if you have a question for Dr. Moorcraft, there are still a couple of people waiting to have their questions asked.

So if you have a question, send it in immediately to ChrisOrenson at gmail .com.

ChrisOrenson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We're.

At Lindbrook Baptist Church, a Christ -centered, gospel -driven church looking to spread the gospel in the

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At Lindbrook Baptist Church, we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be inspired word of

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This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through

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It is the gift of God, not a result of words, so that no one may boast.

The Lord bless you in the knowledge of himself.

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast.

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It's such a blessing to hear.

From Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show

he really loves hearing interviewed,.

Dr. Joe Moorcraft.

I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland.

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe

Moorcraft.

If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming,

Georgia are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr. Joe

Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism.

Heritage is a member of the Hanover Presbytery, built upon the of the apostles and prophets,

Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great Protestant

Reformation of the 16th century.

Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone,

grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, and God's glory alone.

Their primary goal is the worship of the triune God that continues in eternity.

For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch

.com.

That's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com, or call 678 -954

-7831.

That's 678 -954 -7831.

If you visit, tell them Joe O 'Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener, and a tie in County Kildare,.

Ireland, sends you.

Welcome back.

I just want to give a couple of quick shout -outs.

First of all, you've been hearing ads for TruthLoveFamily—I'm sorry,

TruthLoveParent, TruthLoveParent .com, and I want to

strongly recommend them because they practice euthetic and biblical counseling.

That's TruthLoveParent .com, and A .M. Brewster is the biblical

counselor from that ministry that we have featured many times in this program and will continue to do so.

Also, I want to remind you that you've been hearing ads for the Historical Bible Society

every day for years.

Please don't forget that that fine ministry is founded by its president,

Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, a dear friend of mine dating back to the early 1990s,

and he is a valuable sponsor of this program.

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of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Last but not least, I want to give another plug for our friends at Solid Ground Christian Books.

There is another book that I want to highlight today, especially since this program is being conducted in loving

memory of the late Lou Priolo, who passed on to glory and eternity with Christ this

week.

Solid -Ground -Books .com carries his book, A Practical Guide to Biblical Husbanding,

A Practical Guide to Biblical Husbanding by Lou Priolo, and you can get that at Solid -Ground -Books .com.

Okay, we have time for at least one more listener question.

We have Violet in Lumber City, Georgia.

How close is that to coming, Pastor Joe?

I don't know.

Okay, well, Violet asks, do you think it's legitimate for a

biblical counselor and a pastor and elders, when counseling someone, to reach the

conclusion that they are indeed demon -possessed?

It seems that Reformed Christians in general tend to shy away from such a

possibility in our day and age.

Well, that is a good question.

I believe in the existence of demons.

I don't believe in some views of spiritual warfare where everything is demonic.

I've been in the pastorate now since 1969.

I don't know that I've ever met a demon -possessed woman, person.

Now, maybe there's one woman that I met that came close to being demon -possessed, but

other than that one woman, I don't think I've ever seen a demon -possessed person.

Now, I believe in demon possession.

I believe in evangelical circles, there's more said

about Satan and demons than the Bible reveals.

And so, therefore, we've got to be careful that we determine all of our views of demons and Satan

by the Bible and not by just our feelings or experiences.

And also, many evangelical Christians give more credit to Satan

than they do to Christ himself.

But as one man said, Satan is the good shepherd's sheepdog

that he uses to keep his sheep in line, and that he is completely and

entirely under the control of Christ.

And by the death of Christ, Satan's power and influences

were all greatly curtailed.

So, after saying all that, I think there's such a thing as demon possession.

I think the less a culture is influenced by the gospel, the more

demon possession you'll see, and the more a culture is influenced by the

gospel.

So, I believe there's such a thing.

I believe there's no kind of trick to expelling them except by prayer.

Christ would expel it if there's demon possession, that Christ would remove it and cast the demons

out without any kind of rituals or any kind of secret little rites or things like that.

I just don't know.

I think there's only been one demon -possessed woman I've ever known.

Well, I'd like you to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners.

Today about this subject.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

I can meet, overcome, live with every situation

that life brings before me, knowing that every

episode in life is governed by a sovereign God.

God says in Isaiah, I create good times, and I

create calamitous times.

I am the Lord who does all these things.

Hallelujah.

Well, I want to remind our listeners, the website for Heritage Presbyterian Church in

Cumming, Georgia is heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

Heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

Don't forget also about the eight -volume commentary written by my guest, Dr.

Joseph C. Moorcraft III called Authentic Christianity, the eight -volume

commentary on the larger catechism, the Westminster larger catechism.

If you want to find out more about that, go to comprehensivechristianity .com,

comprehensivechristianity .com.

You can also go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary

.com.

And folks, please, if you're a man in the ministry, do not forget, whether you are a pastor, elder,

deacon, parachurch leader, I'm having my next biannual

free Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastors Luncheon on Thursday, June the 6th, 2024,

11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, featuring

for the first time Dr. Joel Beakey, founder and president of Puritan Reform Theological

Seminary.

Please register by sending me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail

.com, and put Pastors Luncheon in the subject line.

And remember, this is for men in ministry leadership only.

You know, Brother Joe, that you have an open door in Iron Trip and Zion Radio studio

to return as a guest as frequently as you wish.

I look forward to many future visits from you and interviews, and very soon as well.

I love it.

I'll be glad to do it.

And I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.